Adopted, Angry, and Awake: The Redemption of Heath

Welcome to Season 2 of Sicker Than Others!

Heath’s story starts before he was even born.

In this powerful episode of Sicker Than Others, Heath shares a life that was chaotic from the very beginning. Born into a world shaped by addiction, crime, and instability, Heath’s biological mother was navigating dangerous circumstances tied to drug trafficking and biker gangs in Newport Beach. At one point, she was homeless while pregnant with him—surviving by staying in empty escrow homes. Eventually, she made the impossible decision to place Heath up for adoption.

He was adopted into a family in Los Angeles by two East Coast transplants—one from Brooklyn, the other from New Jersey—both of whom struggled with alcoholism, something Heath wouldn’t fully understand until much later in life. Growing up in Marina Del Rey and attending Hamilton High School, Heath spent years trying to make sense of his identity: adopted, surrounded by dysfunction, and quietly carrying anger that he didn’t yet know how to name.

When addiction entered the picture, things escalated fast.

But what makes Heath’s story so remarkable isn’t just where he came from—it’s who he became. Those who knew Heath early in recovery remember someone filled with rage and pain. And yet, over time, something extraordinary happened. The anger gave way to humility. The chaos turned into compassion.

Today, Heath has transformed into someone people rely on. A man who looks out for the people who struggle the most in the room. The quiet ones. The outsiders. The ones who feel like they don’t belong—because he knows exactly what that feels like.

This episode is about identity, adoption, addiction, and what happens when someone decides to grow beyond the story they were handed. Heath’s journey is proof that where you start in life doesn’t determine where you end up.

Sometimes the people who begin the most lost end up becoming the ones who guide others home.

Produced by Jesse Solomon. 

Resources

Beit T’Shuvah – Recovery, community, and treatment
https://www.beittshuvah.org

Support Beit T’Shuvah
https://beittshuvah.org/support/donate/

Alcoholics Anonymous
https://www.aa.org

Sex and Love Addicts Anonymous (SLAA)
https://slaafws.org/newcomers/

Credits

Host: Seb Webber
Executive Producer: Jesse Solomon
Intro Theme: Jesse Solomon

Recorded live at Beit T’Shuvah
8831 Venice Blvd
Los Angeles, CA 90034

Production inquiries:
seb@magick-arts.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Sicker Than Others is a podcast on the ups and downs of recovery. This podcast does not reflect the views or opinions of Betashuva or any of its subsidiary businesses or partners. Sicker Than Others neither speaks for AA or recovery as a whole, but you'll find some useful links below if you want to find out more. Sicker Than Others touches on subjects and situations that some listeners may find offensive or, if you're lucky, triggering. You have been warned. Hey, welcome to Sicker Than Others, the podcast brought to you from within a treatment center in Culver City. Um very excited about my next guest. I semi-went through the house with you. You were staffed before I was staff. Yeah. Yeah. But we were, I remember you in group. This is Heath, everybody. Heath. What's up, everybody? Welcome to the show. Thank you, thank you. So uh I'll get down here, it's pretty simple. It's uh I just want to know what it was like, what happened, what it's like now. So I think you start, you've got a pretty wild story. I know I was like to start by saying something nice. Um, I love this guy. I love this guy for a ton of fucking reasons. Um you were super angry when I first met you, and you blossomed into this like amazing person, and you were a role model for a bunch of us here, and you're just a fucking good hang, dude. And you also, another great thing about this guy is he looks out for the little guy. Um, and I've seen you do that multiple times. I'm not gonna mention their names, um, but you look after the people that might be uh not socially that might find this environment challenging, and I've seen you do that a bunch of times, and I really respect it. Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:48

So uh tell us fucking where you're from, how what was your get down? Yeah, my get down, dude. Um I've been through so much, it's so hard to, you know. I always I speak a lot of panels, right? And I always normally like read the room. Um there's just like a bunch of electronics, there's you in here, so it's like I can really just it's hard for me to pinpoint where to even start, you know. But I was born and raised first in Marina del Rey, and then out here just down the street. You know, I went to high school across the freeway, Hamilton High School, you know, and uh I was adopted. Um my adoptive family uh were in a rush to adopt my uh adoptive dad and mom. I just call them mom and dad to preface that. And then also like uh my biological family, I'll say biological moms. It gets kind of confusing, you know. So, anyways, um I was adopted uh by two people from the East Coast, one from Jersey, one from Brooklyn, you know, and um both alcoholics, and uh, which I didn't realize towards like later on in life, you know, that whole thing, like, oh, the kids know, like, I don't know, because uh the kids I didn't know anything until I started really getting into like drugs and alcohol, you know, I didn't really know. But uh, anyways, I mean, they adopted because my mom had a miscarriage and they couldn't have kids after that. And my dad was like, like, uh, I love you, but I really want a family, and if we if we don't adopt, then I'm gonna find somebody else on the leaf, you know. My mom was uh man, it was heavy.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

You even know that.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:23

That's like a heavy burden a fucking carry.

SPEAKER_04 3:25

Yeah, it's true.

SPEAKER_00 3:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:26

Um, my mom didn't tell me all this this all this entire story.

SPEAKER_03 3:30

Uh sorry about that.

SPEAKER_04 3:33

Um yeah, so my mom told me when I was 11 through my stepdad, who remarried, she got remarried when I was eight years old to uh to a Jewish lawyer guy that was friends. Or her uh my mom's like friend, like co-worker, I think manager at Hadassah, the Jewish women's organization, and that was her uh her son ended up being a step-in lawyer for a time, and that's how they met. But he forced her to tell me my real dad told my mom to never tell me that I was adopted. So they didn't hold anything back though, and they told me the whole entire story, you know? Yeah, what happened when I was one, two years old, how he disappeared after I was adopted. You know, I was handed straight to my mom in the hospital in Los Albamidos. Um that whole story of why I was adopted due to drug addiction, bike get biker gangs taking over my mom's business. My mom, uh my biological mom had a had a uh realtor business um dealing with selling homes in Newport Beach. And yeah, man, I uh there's a lot of times in my life where I was like, damn, I just was this close, man. This close. I was like, I had to have done something crazy in my previous life, you know. Um, and uh so yeah, I uh the biker gang pretty much told my my mom, like, hey, your business partner, my aunt, owes us a lot of money for for methamphetamine drug sales and drug usage, and so this is our business now. You could work for us, and my mom was like, Nope, I don't think so. Yeah, my mom, uh my boss mom was a pretty strong woman and didn't like didn't succumb yeah how know how to hold boundaries. However, I wonder where you get it from.

SPEAKER_03 5:19

Yeah, I know, I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 5:22

That is something that I don't have a problem with, but in in in short, you know, uh my first ever being homeless was in the in utero. She was homeless living uh luxury homeless though, living in escrow homes in Newport Beach. Wow, yeah. So um, and then she had to give me up for adoption, met this Polish family. She was Polish by blood, first generation here. My other family, uh uh my real mom and my real dad were were also first generations here from uh Lithuania and Russia. Oh wow. They were my mom was Catholic, the adoptive family was Jewish, so I just got you know transferred right over the street. Shuffled over, dude. Yeah, the same people, same kind of people, different, you know, different religion, death, different ethnicity. But um, I mean our last name was Shrap Levy, so I know there's some Judaism in there somewhere, you know. Uh but yeah, I grew up um over here. My dad died when I was six.

SPEAKER_00 6:18

What happened?

SPEAKER_04 6:19

Um, so he found out he was gonna die when he when I was three, and they're like, Look, you're either gonna get sober now and prove that you're getting sober by going to meetings, or you're gonna die. And so my what my mom told me is he finally took me in account because before, like I said, he like disappear snorting coke, you know, banging my uh uh my uh my babysitters and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 6:45

To this to this day, I try to emulate my mom's loyalty, you know. She it made her mad, but she was so loyal to my dad that even after he died, until she died in 2017, her all her passwords were like some variation of his name or his birthday. She was like in love with this dude. I was like, I was trying to find somebody like that, you know, who's gonna be in love with me no matter what I do, you know. Um, so anyways, he like started going to meetings, Marina Center, late 80s, early 90s. Oh, that's cool, dude. Yeah, I was that kid sitting next to him, like not knowing what's going on.

SPEAKER_01 7:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:20

And uh yeah, man, and then we he would take me to Florida, Brooklyn, I would meet all my family members out on the East Coast, and and then just one day, like he started doing like just being kind of weird, you know, like uh just kind of off, like peeing in the sink and kind of not being there. Like, um, I don't know, something happened to like his brain or something. I don't know. My mom didn't really ex explain it other than like wet brain, yeah. And like had caught up with him, right? And something got real bad where she called the ambulance. I went to my babysitters, that was like in the morning by the late, late night, maybe early a.m. of the next day. Um, they were like, Yeah, you need to come down to Cedar Sinai. Uh your dad died, you know.

SPEAKER_00 8:02

Wow, and you remember this?

SPEAKER_04 8:03

Yeah, I remember like when they took me there, he was laying in his in his bed smiling. I always remember that. Holy shit. Yeah, his face had a smile on it, you know. And I was like, at least he went out peaceful. Yeah. I grew up watching horror movies. Me and my me and my dad, bro, watched horror movies shining. I watched all the Halloween's, Jason's, Freddie's, uh, child's plays. Um by that time, I was before he died, and he died when I was six and a half. You know, that was like our bonding thing.

SPEAKER_00 8:32

Um, and that's a lot though, man. That's a fucking lot for a fucking six and a half year old to like it's confusing.

SPEAKER_04 8:39

I didn't even know how to deal with it. Like no, you're six. Yeah. No shit. I knew he was gone. I understood death. That's why I bring up the horror part. Because I understood what death was. Yeah. I just didn't experience it, so I didn't know what to experience.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:52

Except for my hatred of God. Yeah. Right. You know, I ex I always believe that there was like something out there that controlled something.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

When your dad died, though, was he still your hero?

SPEAKER_04 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:04

You know, he was uh throughout the time that he was sober, I don't even remember being around my mom. She was working, she wasn't like gone. I just don't remember it.

SPEAKER_01 9:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 9:14

I remember our family times together. Dude, uh her brother, son, my cousin would come out from Jersey. Our family would come out from Florida, we'd be hanging out in this little straight 19, late 80s, early 90s style apartment, dude, and just have like family time. I got pictures of them playing like Game Boy with me.

SPEAKER_00 9:32

Yeah, the the one the reason I brought that up is because I realized something. I think my kid's mum has a lot of resentment against me. I mean, and by the way, she fucking should. Let's be really clear. But I think part of it is that like Stella's a little Stella, my daughter, she's nine, but I can't do any wrong. And in my kid's eyes, I haven't done any wrong. You know, she loves me, and I think that's really hard for the other parent who has had to carry the weight for fucking three years, four years, you know, while I was getting sober. I think she really struggles with that. And I think you know, yeah, especially dads are always kids' heroes, you know what I mean? And I don't even know, like, and I wasn't like I was there, but I wasn't always present, but I was there, and I think you actually need to do very little, you know. If I really look and if I'm really being honest at it, I for a few years I did the bare minimum, yeah, yeah, right? Yeah, and I'm still a hero. And God, what a fucking blessing. But also what really difficult for the other parent, right? And uh I just was thinking of that when you were talking about, you know, it's like you you you think about like, oh, your dad was like doing all this weird stuff and he was relapsing, but you didn't know that at the time, right? You just you know that in hindsight, so it's like I really like to figure out like the way you were feeling as a six because your dad was your hero and you lost your fucking hero at six and a half. Like that's a really hard fucking thing to fucking deal with. Now, let alone at six.

SPEAKER_04 10:53

Yeah. I mean, I never you know, I people like grow up with their dads and stuff like that. I mean, I had a stepdad, but you know, we can get into that later, but yeah that wasn't that was a whole issue that I've come to terms with as you know, being a person of sobriety. I've learned to deal with that and understand mental illness and resentments, and I don't even hold a resentment against my dad. Yeah, like I held a resentment until I did my this last four step to my freaking to God. Yeah, I blame God on everything. I already knew like people sometimes can't control what they do and stuff like that, and I try to just blame the the more powerful person that I think is in charge.

SPEAKER_00 11:28

Yeah, well, you're an anarchist at the fucking core, that's for sure. Anyone that doesn't know Heath, Heath doesn't do very well with authority, I think to say the least. So the greatest authority being God, it's probably a real hard thing for you to come across, you know. Um when did you start getting fucking high? Like real high.

SPEAKER_04 11:42

I started getting really high. I started getting like I like really high, just like the good drugs. 14. Oh, the good drugs? 17, yeah. 17. I was against it. I used to be offered like going to punk shells and stuff. Like, hey man, you want to do some coke, dude? I'm like, nah, I'm good, bro. Hey, do you want to smoke some weed? I'm like, I don't f with that hippie lettuce, bro. Like, we eat pound 40s, and that's what we do.

SPEAKER_01 12:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:03

In the alley, breaking shit. We go to shows, yeah, and we like that sex and violence song. Like, we go in the pit, we beat fools up, and we have sex.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

Drinking Mickey's 40s and freaking magnums and and and G and GPC cigarettes, which stood for gutter punk cigarettes, two dollars a pack. Loved it, dude, you know? And I but I really started not the hard like the hard drugs, I didn't get into it. I went straight to meth. I don't I didn't turn around. Yeah, I went straight to snorting meth, staying up for nine days at a time, but I only went on a three three-month binge, but then three months I probably slept like three weeks or like a month, yeah. You know, and uh what year was that? That was 2003.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Oh, dude. So do you have the good meth?

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 12:49

You were in like bike a crank good meth era.

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Dude, we were into that P2P Oh dude. Uh you do a match stick, and I was up for at least 12 hours. Time, not just up, like I was high for 12 hours. I literally would get high off of$10. Yeah. And I had you talking about arrived? Like, I had cocaine that helped me arrive with like social aspect.

SPEAKER_01 13:09

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

That arrived because I was getting high for cheap. It's I didn't have money, man. I had like enough for like GPC cigarettes.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:18

A freaking dollar fifty forty, dude. You know, ten dollars I can get high for two days straight.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:23

Play Monopoly the first night I ever did that, dude. I was sitting there smoking weed in the back end of an apartment complex just down the street. There were some issues, some drama going on between the two brothers I was friends with. And what it had something to do with a girl, and I was with the other brother who was the one that supposedly stole the girlfriend, you know? And we were out behind a building, kind of like in the cut, smoking off the off my zong, which was like a bong that was two feet high, but it was really four feet because it made a Z. So it was like a bong scrunched down like an accordion.

SPEAKER_00 13:58

And we're Was it Coda Zong or you coda a zong?

SPEAKER_04 14:01

No, it's called a zong.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

Okay, zong bong.

SPEAKER_04 14:03

Yeah, the zong bong, right? And um, so we finished smoking as we're leaving. He my butt and the other brother comes up and he's like, what the fuck? Like, he goes, You're hanging out with them, like you're crossing me. And I'm like, Whoa, whoa, dude. I was like, I'm I've been friends with both of you guys since I was 11 years old. I'm like, we're just smoking, bro. Like, you know, don't don't tread, dude. He goes, You're gonna come with me or we'll never be friends again. I'm like, all right, so I hop in the car. Don't no drama, you know. As we were driving out to Maywood, which is Southeast LA, straight hood, man, you know, but I hung out there going to punk shows, South Central, East LA, Compton, Wilmington, East LA. I hung out in all like the dope area, the cool areas, bro, you know, and he was like, I've been doing meth. I laughed, I started laughing. This dude was so anti-drug, bro. And I'm like, Yeah, okay, dude. If you did meth, then I'll snort a line when when we get to my when we get to homeboy's house, you know? And he was like, bro, I have, and then will you do a line with me? I'm like, sure. So we hit the line, it burns my face off, and then we proceeded.

SPEAKER_00 15:03

Fucking eye pops out, dude.

SPEAKER_04 15:04

Dude, like, man, I didn't even know what the heck was going on with me. It was just like I wanted to stick a hand inside of my nose and just scratch, right? And then I'm like, pain is good, good, this is good, okay, I'm cool, and I start feeling it. I'm like, immediately we start playing Monopoly for nine hours straight, dude. That was my first night, and then everybody had been up for like four days, so I'm the only one up, and everybody's crashed out, and I'm like, what the hell am I supposed to be doing? Someone handed me a crossword puzzle and a journal, and that was it. It was a wrap, dude. That's all I did. That was it, dude. I was like, journaling, word searches. How many word searches can I do in a day? Yeah, that was like my goal. How fast can I do them? You know, and then I started writing like that's where my poem and political writings actually started from. Oh, I get very spiritual and political when I'm on that when I'm on like stimulants, period. You know, it's like my anger kind of comes out, but like in a constructive way, yeah. You know, but I mean you asked me like when I really started drugging, I started drinking. I'm talking about there was no such thing as like, I want a buzz. I wanted it to get blacked out. I will always remember a time where I was gonna go to the palace to see this band called Fear, and we weren't going to go into the show. The party happened outside. Yeah, the show was for all the people that had punks that had money. We were gutter punks, we didn't have money. Yeah, so the party's outside, and we get this dude. His name is Scott Gravel, bro. He is famous on Melrose. Homeless guy, we used to hook him up, you know, and we're like, Scott, you know, you'd always be like, Scott Gravel, 666, you know, whenever we'd see him. And so we're like, Scott, dude, he's like, What's up, dude? He was like, We need you to get us a space bag. And so a space bag what's a space bag? It's the wine in a bag. Oh yeah, dude, smart and final five dollars. Blush. Oh god, yes, it was so good. And I told my homie when we got it, I was like, dude, we were drinking the blackout tonight. Yeah, me and him drank almost the entire bag. There's five liters of wine in that. Yeah, dude. I had 40s thrown at me, dude. I had people like trying to harass me while I was passed out on the curb in front of the palace off of Hollywood and uh I think it's Hollywood and Vine. You know, it was just a good old time. And that's how I drank.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:24

That's how I drank. I didn't do it often.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:26

Meaning I didn't do it every day. I wasn't all day throughout that. But once nighttime hit, it's on and cracking. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. Then it just started like I dropped out of school. I tried to fix my grades in independent studies when I was like 16, and something had some family stuff happened where I had to move to my grandma's house. I mean, my dad got into it. And um, because I missed school, I I missed like something happened with my grades. I had to try to try to continuation school.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 17:55

Well, during all this drama, I missed like three days. They called my grandma, like, yeah, you can't come back to school anymore.

SPEAKER_03 18:00

I'm like, what?

SPEAKER_04 18:01

I'm like, okay. So I knew through the grave line about an independent study school where you study, test, and whatever grade you test in, that's how many credits they give you up to that point. And then they prepare you for the GED. You give it you pass the GD, not only do you have your GED, then you give it to the school and they give you 250 credits.

SPEAKER_00 18:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

So I tested into the second semester of 12th grade, even though I was just starting 11th.

SPEAKER_01 18:27

Oh.

SPEAKER_04 18:28

And so it just gave me free rain. So once that happened, I was going out every night, punch shows, getting drunk on Melrose, puking in front of Guitar Center, going to guitar center, just playing all their guitars because I couldn't freaking afford it.

SPEAKER_01 18:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:41

I'd made plenty of music. My my when I was in bands, like a guitar on guitar center uh guitars using their Ivan as, you know, yeah, music titles.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Well, uh what but when you were uh when you were in in it and you were a punk, did you and did you fuck with the straight edge punk people? Like I'm just interested in that dynamic. For anybody who doesn't know what you want to straight explain what straight edge is? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:07

Um Straight Edge is straight edge means you it's almost like it's almost like sobriety and punk, but it's like they are hardcore against promiscuous sex.

SPEAKER_01 19:16

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 19:17

No drinking. Um man, I'm not really part of that. So it's like it's pretty much just like they don't do anything, they don't do anything that we do.

SPEAKER_00 19:26

But they have an attitude.

SPEAKER_04 19:27

Oh yeah, yeah. They are very uh back in when Ian McKay started it for minor threat and stuff. I remember he was on his last interview, he was with a Budweiser ken and saying that he wished he never started it because they used to start fights. So the straight edge kids growing up were thrash core, were like the the thrash core uh uh skater thrash punk kids, and that area uh from what I know, I don't know too much about it, but it started up in the Bay Area with 625 Thrash Core. What happens next? There's a local band called Hit Me Back that uh a buddy of mine now, um, he actually runs all he like helps uh put on all the punk shows now. Oh nothing nothing less booking. Um and and uh they were straight edge. And I remember one time we went to one of their shows and like we were just joking around that P. I went there because of a buddy of mine, and so they were all cool. They were like, you know, they didn't like cigarette smoke and stuff, so we would smoke outside their shows. Um some of them allowed you to smoke, and like that's why they'll like they'll stand near you near near bandages because they weren't like about telling you not to, they just didn't participate in it.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

The subgenres of punk really interest me because there's a lot of levels to punk. It's not just about like fuck the government, but there is this there's different layers, and I just I just find it fascinating. I think just because I'm British, um I find it I find it fascinating. But you you go to these punk shows, you're getting fucked up. When did you when did when did you cross the line? Like when was the line crossed that you were like, uh-oh. Shit's getting a little this is this maybe getting a little hairy.

SPEAKER_04 21:00

Man. It wasn't until it wasn't until later on. Um you know, I drank, I party, I did coke, I worked hard as hell in restaurants. I worked 9, 10, 11, 12 hours a day, plus an hour each way on the bus, you know, because that anti-government, anti uh more anti-government than anti-authority, but provide prevented me from paying off and doing stuff for my DUI. So I refused to do anything, pay parking tickets or anything. So I took the sacrifice, sacrificed my driver's license for 15 years. So I fucking solid and like I'm like loyal to an ideology, bro, you know? And uh so I took the bus everywhere. So not only did I work for 10 hours, I was out of my house for like 14 hours a day.

SPEAKER_00 21:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:50

I'm like, yo, I deserve a line of cocaine in the bathroom that smells like vomit and diarrhea.

SPEAKER_00 21:56

And you're working in kitchens, which we kitchens are a

SPEAKER_04 22:01

I think I think it is, but more for afterwards. Right. You know, my experience was is that we have these chefs that, like, if you put out a dish that's effed up, yeah, right, more than like a couple times, like you can get off the line. And yeah, they'll say that in a not so nice way. So I think what I noticed in the people that I worked with, it's like, okay, like maybe a uh like we'll have like a little beer here or something, but the hard parting, that's not until afterwards.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

But the culture, but the culture of chefs, the culture of chefs is pretty fascinating. It's kind of also a little bit like punk. It's uh there's a lot for anyone that doesn't know professional kitchens have a lot of drug use, a lot of drinking, maybe not while you're doing it, but the culture of hey, we're gonna get fucked up off this shift, or like, you know.

SPEAKER_04 22:44

Absolutely. I had a chef summon up to me in one interview. I was at a country club in Knoxville, Tennessee, and he goes, Have you ever been arrested? And I'm like, No shame. I'm like, yeah. And he goes, All right, cool. Because I was gonna say, if you weren't, you wouldn't get hired here. He goes, Almost everybody in this kitchen has a felony. I'm like, well, like I guess welcome home to me, you know. Like, you know, I felt at home. I was like, all right, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah, you've you've had a couple runnings with the law, right?

SPEAKER_04 23:09

Yeah, yeah, just a couple like six felonies, about 20 million misdemeanors, yeah, over three over 30, 40 uh, you know, stint and count in jail, two prison terms, you know, a lot. So I mean it's meantime and all of this stuff, oh nine re nine rehabs, be teshuva three times, Raina B three times, good old actin, you know. Um, I'm like, I've been through all of this. My dad died. I, you know, God hates me. Um, I can never keep a girl. My girlfriend cheated on me and left me, you know, left me with my daughter and refused to let me see her. Yeah, you know. Um my my son's mom told me I was a sperm donor and that she didn't want nothing to do with me. So I deserve a cocaine, a line. I deserve a pint, dude. Yeah, I want a pint glass, yeah, frothy, cold. Yeah, I deserve a corona with a lime on a 90-degree day out on Venice at the whaler.

SPEAKER_01 24:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:07

Or or my place was more uh uh uh sports harbor. I used to go to freaking Cabo Cantina. I love Cabo. That was my that was my spot. Yeah, you know, I knew the bouncers there.

SPEAKER_00 24:18

But it's funny though, but would you say but that's interesting to me because like do you do you um going through all this shit? I don't have relationships with my kids, I'm dealing with all this, I'm you know, I'm doing, you know, working really hard, yada yada yada. I deserve a drink. But do you were you doing, were you just like trying to just have the drink, not thinking that you would go back to drugs, or did you always end up going back to drugs?

SPEAKER_04 24:44

Man, for 20 years I always went back to drugs. I this is when I so you asked me to to go back on the question like when did I think that there was a problem?

SPEAKER_01 24:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 24:53

When I would drink, yeah, I would do cocaine, yeah, even though I told myself I wouldn't, I'd wake up the next morning, yeah. I'd have no money in my wallet because I never had a bank account, you know, government, right? So I was just like, there's something, but what really I just spoke about this in a meeting the other day. What really got grinding my gears to say I I think I might have a problem, but maybe not, is when I started looking at other people when I either didn't go to sleep or just you know, uh I'm about I'm like coming down pretty much, and I'm walking around palms right here, and I'm seeing all these normal people go to work and shit. I'm like, why can't I be like these people?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can I can quite happily never watch another sunrise. You know what I mean? By the end of getting up and watching the sunrise actually is fucking horrendous for me. Like the birds chirping. Oh my god, after a three-day run, and you see your neighbors going to fucking do yoga, and you're like, what the fuck is wrong with me?

SPEAKER_04 25:51

Yeah, yeah. What a reality check, dude. Bro, the worst part was sorting cocaine, having fun. Immediately when you hear those birds chirps, anxiety. I'm like, oh shit, I need to go to sleep. Forcing myself to then go to sleep. It's already getting light outside. I have to wake up at 10, mind you, because I have to get ready, I gotta go to work. And it's just like, why can't I be just like regular? Why can't I have like regular people fun?

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:17

Can't I go like to a coffee shop?

SPEAKER_01 26:19

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:20

Why can't I go pick up a chick in a library?

SPEAKER_01 26:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

No, I had to go, I had the biggest FOMO at bars. Yeah. I was like, I have to stay till the end and I have to set up the after hours party because I was that guy. Yeah, I was the one setting up the afters, you know? And I was like, I'm gonna find the love of my life here. I don't know. I had to be at the bar every day, right? And it was a problem. And then I mean, it is no question, but where I went from cocaine to meth again after I stopped that little three-month, four-month binge, yeah, and I had like another another little binge, which started having me go in and out of jail, like eight eight charges, eight stints within like three months. Yeah, and I I wasn't like that, you know. I wasn't like I was a punk rocker, but I wasn't a criminal. I didn't break, you know, I mean I broke laws, but not like crazy laws to get arrested. And that scared me away from that. I'm like, oh I could party with anything else but this right here lands me in a prison and jail. My life, I hated my life and myself so much that I had such bad self-esteem. I always heard I was never good enough. I'm smart, I'm so smart. Why aren't you doing good enough? Yeah, you know, I was never uh good looking enough. You know, I told you that story where like the girl when I was smoking weed with my buddy in Century City when I was 13, like mentioned how I sounded like a girl. Yeah, I hated my voice, I hated the way I talked. People used to always ask me, Are you from the South? Or you know, who did you hang out with growing up? Like, why do you sound the way you do? You know, and I was always trying, like, hated myself. And I was starting Coke and doing everything like what I did everywhere Brooklyn, freaking Knoxville, Southern Texas, McCallan, Texas, here. And I was just like, I went to go pick up Coke and someone had meth, and like I had done it after that that binge and after the eight or nine years, like eight eight or ninth year, I did like one line. I was like, whatever, I didn't care. I was just doing it to stay up, didn't really affect me. So I thought I could do that normally in Knoxville. I did that once or twice. I went to go get it again, and I made a and finally it just it was like everything just compiled together, you know. I can never be good enough to make my mom happy. Yeah, uh, I got no my I don't talk about it a lot, but my kids like that shit affects me. Dude, fuck that, dude. Like that it still affects me to this day, but thanks thankful to the programming and stuff like that. I just gotta keep pushing forward in one day, you know?

SPEAKER_00 28:43

You know, I always think there's like two surrenders we do, right? There's the surrender that we all talk about, which is the surrender of when we finally give up trying to run our lives our way. Mine was when I came in here, and I just surrendered to the fat. But there's the other surrender that we don't talk about, which is the surrender of becoming a drug addict. When I would just do a little bit at a time, and then at some point it was like this re it was this almost a relief of, oh, I'm just a junkie, and then I would get high every day. Yeah. The surrender of reality of oh, I'm a fucking drug addict, was as powerful as the surrender, if not more powerful than the one when I finally gave up, which we don't talk about enough because you're talking about all the shit that's going on, and you know, we talk about the using getting worse, it increments and increments, and there is at some point, for me at least, there was a surrender of well, this is just how fucking life is now. Yeah, this is what I've become. Everything I didn't want to become, I became, and that's a fucking surrender. I'm surrendering to becoming a drug addict, and I surrendered to becoming a drug addict.

SPEAKER_04 29:39

It's funny you say that because I had that exact moment, you know. So the moment when I was like, oh no, this is it, I hit that light bulb, and I was like, I I took a choice.

SPEAKER_01 29:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:48

So anybody that, like, yeah, I didn't have a choice because I'm drinking, I gotta go to do drugs, but I had that choice to either do another line and maybe not get hooked as fast or hard, or just immediately fuck my life. I'm going down into you know, hopelessness, homelessness, this is where I'm headed. Yeah, I hit the pipe. I didn't give a fuck.

SPEAKER_00 30:06

Yeah. That's what the real insanity is, right? Because they say that the definition of I I hate I hate when people say this, but the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expect different results. No, that's not the definition of insanity. The definition of insanity is um I know exactly what's gonna happen, who I'm gonna f affect, fuck up my life, and I know all the people by name I'm about to hurt, and then I do it anyway. Yeah, that's the fucking insanity. There was there was a once I crossed that line, there was no question it was gonna be different. It was just a plan of how I'm gonna fuck shit up, and I'm gonna get high anyway.

SPEAKER_04 30:42

Yeah. I had that like every time that I don't I don't give a fuck attitude, I do what I want, like nobody likes me, I don't like myself, so who cares? Yeah, you know, and then I had that aha moment you were talking about. Yeah, I I was sitting in the alley over like with a half circle, like tweaker garb stuff everywhere, all the random stuff that I had picked up off the ground, I thought were jewels and all types of crazy stuff. And I looked at my I don't know what happened to me. God like flipped on a light switch, my higher powers like you're gonna lure today. You're a freaking tweak.

SPEAKER_03 31:14

And I looked at myself and I was like, damn, I'm a fucking tweaker, dude. Yeah, and then I said I'm a tweaker, yeah, and then I said, fuck it, run it. I said, let's go, baby. I said, finally, dude. The fucking surrender, dude. What's the surrender? The surrender of being a drug.

SPEAKER_04 31:30

If that didn't happen, even though I had like, oh, stinky, I smelled like freaking all types of chemicals coming out of my armpits, dude. I had like busted up socks that you know were so crusty with match sweat that I probably could have just went like that and put it in my pipe and smoked it. Yeah. Um, if I didn't have that happen to me, amongst some of the other consequences, I would have never been able to get sober.

SPEAKER_01 31:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 31:52

I I needed to be honest with myself that that was an aha moment. Yeah, what that moment was was just like utter surrender because even though I in the past was like, oh, why can't I be like other people? I could do it. I can I can be like other people. I'm just partying right now. Or oh, this just happened. Just making excuses.

SPEAKER_01 32:10

Yeah, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 32:11

Really, I couldn't do it. I didn't realize it back then. For 20 years, bro. For 20, that was probably like more like 12 years straight of like trying to be able to drink and not go to a stimulant. I'm like, I can do it. I can do it. My last relapse, bro. Yeah, I was like, I can do it, man. And I was drinking like a gentleman. I capped off at three beers after multiple hours at a bar. And then one day my homies going to rehab. Hey man, I got this ounce of meth. Like, I'm gonna hide it. Do you want it? I'm like, yeah, right. Triggered me. Boom. Drunk, lowered it, lowered inhibitions. I had a dealer on the phone 15 minutes later, I was picking up an Uber in front of my apartment.

SPEAKER_00 32:46

See, that's exactly why I don't drink, right? I I can I identify as an alcoholic, but truth be told, I didn't really drink that much. I didn't it it's just but I do know that the second I do drink, my inhibitions are lowered. And that fuck it switch, like I have to monitor myself constantly, right? I think about drugs all the time still, but I don't feel it here. They they stay up there, but sometimes the feeling starts to get here, and it's that that's why I don't drink, because the second I might put a beer to my fucking lips or something, I just think the fuck it switch will fucking go. Oh yeah. Let's just be it's fucking on, dude. I go scares me, it scares the shit of me. So we could talk about getting high for a long time, but I want to know what happened this time around when you came here. Tell me about how when you came here, what happened?

SPEAKER_04 33:33

Well, I mean, like I told you, I had that aha moment, which just starts my my road to recovery. And once that happened, you know, I end up one day. I was just like, man, I can't do this anymore. Like, I'm too paranoid. I'm I'm I'm I'm not only suspicious of people, which is like low on the total, I was angry at everybody. Me, a social butterfly, just did not want to be around anybody anymore. I couldn't despise people, yeah. And I got disgusted by them. And so God answered my prayers, my higher power answered my prayers, and he sent me to prison. You know, so yeah, and and and it went it went crazy in there, dude. Were you getting high in prison? I was not, I can't afford it.

SPEAKER_00 34:15

And you don't want drugs, and you don't want drugs, you don't want drug debts in prison, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:19

No, and you know, there's like a bunch of political stuff going on that I had to be involved in, yeah. And and so I'm sitting there in the hole, you know, and it's more like halfway, I think, maybe into this of the five months that I was in there for. And uh, you know, a big time dude for another race had like sat there and and and he was like, hey bro, you want to get high? And I'm like, is it for free? And he's like, All right. Uh he goes, Yeah. And I'm like, I'm like, eh, this is this pretty much over a year sobriety. I'm like, whatever, I'll just get that on the outside, you know. So I said, shoot it. And so he proceeded to get me high for on meth for three days. And the thing, this is what this is what started the other gene. So I surrendered that I was a tweaker, right? This is where I surrendered that it's not the drug or anybody else, except not God, not the environment, not anything except for me, is when I was coming down, I started getting my delusional thoughts, which only happened to me not when I was high, but when I was coming down, and I had another aha moment sitting on a mat on a floor, about to go to sleep, eating all the like food I had saved over the days I was getting high, and I was just like, Whoa, I'm the problem, dude. I'm the problem. This is no, it doesn't matter because a lot of the things I started blaming on homelessness.

SPEAKER_01 35:37

Yeah, of course.

SPEAKER_04 35:39

I'm the freaking problem, and this shit has got to stop. Then another uh something at the end, and then finally I was like, I'm worth it. So I wrote a bunch of programs when I finally got out of the hole. I went to a prison and uh I was writing programs, and uh Beethov wrote me back saying, Hey, we can't get you out right now on the ankle monitor, but if you're willing to to finish your term, we would love to have you. Fuck yeah, dude. And I'm like, this is a place I said I would never apply to again because they have denied me before for being here too many times. They dude, uh one of the alternative I can't remember if it was Phil Hamber or K or Carrie, and I can't remember if they told me which one of them told me, but they said, Heath, you don't ever hit us up when you're on the streets, it's only in jail. We're not here to rescue you from jail. You want to come back here, then you hit us up when you get on the streets. And I'm like, oh, okay, and then I just you know got high on the streets. But I come here and I always remembered contrary action from all the times I've been in rehab, and I said, I need to try this because I got nothing else. No therapy, I don't no mental health meds or nothing. Like I tried all that, and my definition of insanity is trying different things, expecting the same result, thinking that something's gonna check me and not realizing what the actual problem is. So I just did it and I was angry, but it was more not for show, but it was more me learning how to vocalize and to process my anger and my resentments and just being out there because all the other times I never said anything, people wouldn't have known I was an angry person. I was just happy go lucky, making everybody laugh. And this time I said, I'm gonna tell people how I feel. This is what hat this is what's gonna happen. You know, people stop me from from leaving and stuff like that, and then I just said I'm gonna go head full head, you know, head first into the steps. Yeah, and I just willing to take suggestion, no matter how much I don't want to hear it, and another moment happened. I don't know shit about myself, I don't know shit about anything. Teach me, guide me. Yeah, and then I finally had I still had resentments, but I was letting you know God guide me, but then he was on my four step, and I looked at what my part in it was, even though I had realized it was just me, I still resented him, and then I just realized this isn't how I want the world and universe to work. That's not how it works. Yeah, to lower these expectations, you know. If I I I learned from the steps that I have high expectations in people, even though I have a low self-esteem and inbred ego. So I'm like, if I can do it because I think I'm so low in myself, and I did that, and then I just go to meetings. I I I I have a close-knit group that will call me out.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Yeah, girl, why were you late to group? Consultation, baby. Yeah, I have the board of directors too. I've got like I got all I mean I've called both you guys mobile problems, but I just I I have to I have to live my life in consultation now, like across everything. Yeah, yeah, I got a girl trouble I gotta do it in consultation. I got a family problem I gotta do it in consultation. If I have a job thing, I I just have to I I know nothing, dude. I am fucking stupid.

SPEAKER_04 38:53

Yeah, and it's okay though, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:55

It's totally okay. It's actually a great place to be knowing I don't know anything.

SPEAKER_04 38:59

Yeah. And here I thought anti-government, anarchism, living on the streets, not paying rent is freedom. Bro, the the amount of freedom and like from not knowing knowing that you don't know anything, taking suggestion, and trying to fight that ego as much as possible by just knowing what it is and being self-aware and running your decisions through everything cars, rent, friends, whatever, through your sponsor and other sober people, bro, that's freedom. Yeah, I feel so free that's amazing that it's like you know, something back goes, alright, I forgot, like I'm not in control. And now that's what it is to surrender my will. I'm I'm surrendering my will and my life over to the care of God. Yeah, because he gets all my bad stuff, yeah, he gets my worries, he gets my anxieties, he gets the control. Here, man, you get to control. I'm not controlling anything, I'm in the I'm in the cruising. I'm my limo driver, I'm cruising in the black sw in the suede black uh back seat, and it's like I'm chilling. And that that dumpster over there, and and the holy socks and the crusty t-shirt, and no underwear, that's all waiting for me.

SPEAKER_01 40:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 40:10

So I'm so I'm like, I'm not missing anything, and and and I I just got that great awareness from also I'm worth it, that like I can build a life.

SPEAKER_00 40:19

That's beautiful, man. So we ask every guest this as we come to a close. What would you say to young Heath today? If you could talk to the six-year-old you, what would you fucking say to him?

SPEAKER_04 40:31

I would tell him that he wasn't alone. I would say, you're you're not alone, you know. No matter how much you feel at times that you're not alone, you have someone watching out over you. And don't worry, you are doing the best you can. Just always strive to do better than the next day or the day before the next day. Do do the best you can then. Don't listen to anybody, and don't let people, you know, uh control what you think about yourself.

SPEAKER_00 40:59

And fuck the government, right?

SPEAKER_04 41:00

Oh, yeah, fuck the government. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:02

Thanks for coming in today, buddy.

SPEAKER_04 41:03

Thanks, dude.