Episode 7: The One for the Woman Reclaiming Herself with Megan Barrett

In this heartfelt episode, Megan Barrett joins The Real Mom Hub to discuss her journey in holding community with healthy boundaries, rediscovering her identity, and deciding to homeschool in response to her child’s ADHD and dyslexia. We dive into challenges of building female friendships and explore the often overlooked nuances of female sexuality within the realities of motherhood. Megan’s story offers a candid and relatable perspective on balancing connection, individuality, and parenting, making this episode a must-listen for every mom seeking community and self-acceptance.

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

This is the real mom hub. Keep listening for relatable content.

to say vagina because we know that's what sets the boys off. China.(...)

roll off the tongue as well, you know.(...) It's more of a mouthful, yeah.

(...)

we are joined by Auntie Megan today and Auntie Megan is the middle sister on dad's side of the family.

(...)

And it was actually very tricky for me to write this intro

she defies concise branding.

But I will say this, if I'm grappling with hard choices or want to talk to an action I'm not proud of or don't feel good about, this is the auntie. One of her superpowers is sincere curiosity about the core of a person, the qualities that make them most themselves and uniquely poised to contribute authentically to this world we all live in. She's a champion for the fun projects, ideas, and conversations that live outside of the typical box. And it should also be noted that for all the sage wisdom and pithy

Well, thank you, Emily and Kelly. Hi.

(...)

I'm doing spondit. Although, like I said, I hardly recognize myself in that. And it's so awesome to get that perspective. Thank you for sharing that.

That's awesome.

(...)

Oh, I don't know about that.

(...)

That's always, that's always a process. It's like totally in the works. Like just cracks me up. Like, yeah, I wouldn't recognize myself now, thankfully from the person I was when I was your age, even.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Oh.

(...)

I did not

cheat ahead of time. I

mean, I tend to bend the rules

now, but I did not do that.

(...)

Okay, we've asked this to everybody.

Sure.

are talking to a fresh generation of budding matriarchs.(...) What is one

trait that

you hope we cherish in the years to come?

That was something actually I had to grow into.

(...)

I would hope.

let me figure out how to say this. I would hope that everybody would be able to, as they get older,

realize that everyone's feminine. And I would hope that everybody would be able to, as they get older, realize that everyone's feminine. And so I would hope that everyone's femininity is, is, is different and how it's expressed and how it resounds with them as different. Because I have learned some amazing things over the course of my time from other women who come from a vast variety of backgrounds.

(...)

And it had less to do with who they were socially or politically.(...) And more to do with their core values. And then when I looked at sort of like,

(...)

what were their core values and not just their core values, but what are they sharing outside of themselves and their home? I think that might be the biggest thing.

(...)

I was like, oh, I have so many women in my life I have to think.(...) Some don't even know it.(...) Some it might have been a profound 10 minute encounter. And just having the grace, I think, to, to, to appreciate where people are coming from.

(...)

And take what you can from it. And if you don't get it or don't understand it, who gives a shit? Let it go.

(...)

Yeah.

to go back to when you're

encountering these women you said, share these. I'm focusing in on the values,

Yeah.

values embodying

Sure.

(...)

one of the things that I think is really important for every single person actually is if you have strength, and we all do.

(...)

Call it whatever you will call it. Grace, call it your chance, genetic makeup. But our strengths are gifted to us. And so when we ask that question, why do I have so much strength? And I think that's a really important question. And I think that's a really important question. And so when we ask that question, why do I have so much as sort of a universal question, why does somebody else not have this? That means then what are we doing with what we have, not just for ourselves and not just for our, our, our family, as we tend to identify by blood, but as our, our community, what is our greater responsibility?(...) And I do tend to, to sort of gravitate towards people who have an understanding for their greater responsibility outside of themselves and outside their nuclear

family.(...) I think that's super important.

you set out their values? Is that what you're asking?

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Right.(...) Right.

(...)

Well, that's... See, that's kind of a cool thing, right? Is there's like,(...) I had to, I had to move such a long way, you know, it's so easy when you're, you're younger and it was especially for me for many reasons to make snap judgments. Snap judgments, which inevitably, if I'd really stop to think about it or take in the time, whatever, however that time was qualified to get to know somebody, that I would have been better equipped actually to understand how they were sharing their talent or their superpower outside of their home. And honestly, what I find is unless somebody

comes across really pretty quickly as self-absorbed, I can guarantee you almost everybody is trying in some fashion to help somebody else. They just don't tell you all about it because they're not flaggarts.

(...)

(Laughs)

there a specific community outside your home you found

kindred spirits

in more than not?

Well, it's funny, that's changed as well. So when I, we first, we've been up to any upper peninsula of Michigan for about eight, nine years now. And it wasn't actually until I moved here that I found my people for one reason or another. I think it's maybe the kind of casualness tendency towards authenticity and a bit of grunge that it feels to me makes it a little bit easier to be myself, I suppose.(...) Notice you see that this is what you're seeing today.

(...)

(Laughs)

(...)

Since we embody grunge as much

as we can. Anyways, so one of the best parts about meeting people up here in my first move was I did homeschool my two boys. They're now 21 and 18. And we have this fabulous community of young people. And just so you all know, when I say young people, I mean anyone from their late 20s on up until 53, just so you're aware what that means.

(...)

And so when the boys were interested in different things, whether it was blacksmithing or robotics or mountain biking or luge, which is a winter sport, we had so many people here who

were

willing to share their

talent, which goes back to what we were originally talking about.(...) I mean, they're not looking for money.

(...)

They're not looking to see how much they can make, but they are

looking to share their passion.

(...)

So that is what drew me to most people initially were the different groups that we did with the boys, because I was always very active in those.

(...)

And then it was super hard when that ended. How do I reestablish my own

relationships? And what does that look like? And honestly, I'm still working at it. And I find a lot of it at church.(...) But by having done that, which is so beautiful in so many ways, I miss that bigger picture that I had before.

Yeah,

yeah, yeah,

my question

When you made the choice to homeschool the boys, I know there are a lot of factors so we've talked to auntie Katie and auntie Lisa at this point and Both have made very different choices of how they

(...)

Yeah, yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

She doesn't know what that reality looks like yet. So she has no

way to know.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Well, I never had any intention of homeschooling from the get go. So that was not my original attempt. I knew I wanted to be home when they were when they were babies and toddlers.

(...)

But I assumed they were going to go to school.

(...)

And I think with Max, who's the oldest being ADHD, dyslexic, dicgraphia, and all this other stuff, I think I do remember the point because all these different labels didn't bother me. You know, I've talked to and I understand it's difficult when you have a kid who learns differently. It wasn't the fact that he learned differently that shook me.(...) And I was the day I'm sitting there talking to this guy who's delivering a diagnosis to us and he says to me, wow, Max is so lucky.

(...)

He has you to homeschool.

(...)

And I was like,(...) really? Because I was just thinking he needed to get in school so I could save myself.

(...)

This all came about probably about first or second grade because

so as you all know, I'm way better now than I used to be. And I do mean better because I do think there's nothing wrong with who we inherently are, but we're always trying to expand our brains and our minds. And I was a rigid left brained person.(...) And when you throw a almost exclusively right brained child into my lap, I thought something was wrong with him. I was like, what the hell is wrong with you? And then I realized that if I wanted a different paradigm and

in most schools and most school districts, statistically, a child who has as many issues as Max is going to fall through the cracks. And they really aren't for most cases. I have talked to some people in different parts of the country who have been so blessed to have school systems that did such a beautiful job working with them. So that is not a universal response. But where we were, I thought, okay, I could take everything I love about this kid

(...)

and throw them into the great social experiment that has no clue what to do with them because we did actually try and learned very quickly that, yes, it is a great social experiment.

(...)

Or I can, yeah,

or I can expand

my own brain. I can be a grownup and I can show that there's other ways to look at a problem and I do actually have the capability to bend my brain. So...

the term, like, I can be a grownup. Because

in terms of status symbols in this country, so much of being a grownup, what would have been the fancy job, which you were really successful at

prior to

Yes, I was...yes.

(...)

So it's

Yeah.

(...)

You know, I don't... Yes, because being a grownup to

me meant think about somebody besides yourself.

It meant you and

Drew decided to have children. Here's this great gift of this child.

And how are you going to handle and demonstrate what it means at its most basic level to be the best human you can be?(...) So if I can't teach that, then I'm...

(...)

Anyway.

(...)

Oh, great question.

I was afraid.

I was

afraid I would fail, very much afraid that if I'm going to do this, I'm not going to do this the way that has been proven to not work. I'm going to figure out what I need to do to celebrate what this means and give our child the tools. But when I say left brain, I'm like...

(...)

I mean, I actually think in imagination now on occasion after all

these years, which is extraordinary for

me.

(...)

But, you know, to teachers, it may mean nothing to you guys. We're talking learning to jump a

number line, learning to use your body and trampolines and all these things. And at the time, honestly, especially for dyslexia, tools and resources were very difficult to find.

So I think, Kelly, most... it was fear of failure.

It was, "I'm going to do this differently. I have no idea if this different way is going to be helpful or not."(...) And this is a human being. It's

a little bit different than, "Oh, I made a mistake at work on this."

(...)

you knew exactly like what you needed to do It was a

(...)

Yeah,(...) except...

I don't know where the tools are. I don't really know what a rival will look like. How do I get there?

both of those things, actually. But, you

know, I mean, honestly... And we did follow some traditional resources,(...) for sure.(...)

But in the end, there was quite a bit that was unique to Max that we needed to figure out. And then his brother was always just a champ because Simon

was very flexible. And he just kind of went with the flow for so long.

(...)

Who really wished he could be here today? (Laughs)

(...)

Sure.

like what did the fear and body look like to you?

A lot of different things.

was one of those slow matures. So when...(...) I can't decide what's more difficult, frankly. I can't decide if it was more difficult growing up in a generation where you had certain expectations and steps laid out for you that you just did because you didn't think about it. That's what you did because that's how we became successful. Or now, where the world is such an open place where I can see how it would be very overwhelming and full of panic because there's actually no steps or I have to recreate all the steps.

But

in my case, it was following the steps. And somewhere along the way, waking up and realizing by following the steps, I had no clue who I was. And I was married with a child.

(...)

(Laughs) And I was like,(...) "Huh.(...) This is awkward."(...) So my

fears were so much of that. It was like, "All right. So part of my fear is pure selfishness. Who the hell am I?(...) How am I going to figure that out?" And then the other part was, "Okay. So

income. My kid clearly isn't going to fit the paradigm.(...) A left-brain person. These are really embarrassing things to admit, but people need to hear this. Left-brain person is like, "How do I measure success?" "Well, how did you do in school today? What grades did you get? What book did you read?" All these very sort of status quo traditional

patterns that I had been very, very successful at.(...)

So part of the fear was, "How do I look?"

(...)

"Oh, yuck."

(...)

Right?(...) Right? Totally. It was,

"How are people going to perceive me?"

(...)

And that was a real awakening process for me. It was super embarrassing for sure.(...) And had to work really hard at that. Letting all that go and not caring what people thought.

(...)

People had all sorts of thoughts.

(...)

it's from I mean it could be anything like did I breastfeed did I not am I staying home? Am I working outside of the home if I am staying home people, you know, that's not glamorous

Mm-hmm.

things that we all feel so I don't think you need to be embarrassed at all that you had that thought I think we all do. I wish we didn't but It's nice to know that you don't anymore cuz man.

Yeah.

(...)

No, for the most part. No.

(...)

No, I have

actually gotten to a

point for the most part. I mean, obviously,

you have those weak moments where all of a sudden you look up and you realize where you're uncomfortable. And you're like, "Oh, because I'm worried what so-and-so sitting across me is thinking." But rarely anymore, because I'm just like, "You know what? Just like Kelly was saying, we're all doing... most of us are doing the best that we can with what we have.

(...)

We're going to make mistakes.(...) We're going to get it wrong."(...) So that is actually one of the... I suppose might even be bigger than the other thing I said at the beginning.

(...)

Understand that we aren't special at all. We, you are not alone or unique. And these things that are difficult,(...) everybody has these things unless they live only on the very surface of their brain. And very few people can do that.

(...)

by you because when you become a mom, when you have your first kid,(...) there's no way to know how that's going to feel,

Oh, yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yes,(...) yes.

(...)

Yes.

(...)

Yes. Yes. It's...

(...)

(Laughs) (Laughs) (Laughs) Yes.

(...)

(Laughs)

Auntie Meghan's special time being a young mother, not married that long

(...)

And I'm like, well, did Uncle Drew know who you were? Did you have people in your

(Laughs)

the person who probably knew me best was Drew and my mom.

And

I was afraid to ask anything of my mom because I didn't want to face truths.

(...)

So... And this might get a little more serious than people aren't intending. And my husband knew me, but I didn't give him the credit of knowing me. And that's... So what happens is...

Is how do we create

for ourselves? And how do those boundaries change or expand or...

include other people and what does that look like? And for you to... For me to be able to establish appropriate boundaries as a married couple, as a mom, as a family... You have to know yourself.

(...)

So I didn't know myself.

(...)

And

so I had all these...

expectations in my head about who I was supposed to be and how I was supposed to act, especially since I was on this journey I had not expected.

I honestly...

would say that journey took me a long, long time. And I didn't have truly any sense for who I really felt I was until I moved up here.

And figured it out on my own because you can't really... When you're that lost, you can't rely on other people.

Other than Drew, obviously.

trying to get a hold of yourself,

(...)

I mean, there's a difference between accepting support and leaning

Right. Yes.

(...)

Yes.

(...)

Yeah. So, you know, there was

actually some things that were definitely were because when you're as old as I am, as I was, honestly, I mean, most of us ask those questions when we're a teenager.

(...)

I was too busy getting grades and doing good at everything we're supposed to do well at. You know, that's... There's no... And there's no like reason, particular reason for that. There's no like,

no, nobody pressured me. No, nobody said. So it's just something inherently in the way that I did things.

(...)

So I did learn really quickly that I'm not special because as soon as we start thinking we're special, in that way we very easily treat ourselves as victims.

You know, when you create yourself as a victim,

then you create yourself, you create stories as to why you are. I'm not saying there's not some reality in things. I'm not discounting that at all. I'm just saying that our brains are so powerful that when we are lost and drowning, we can...we are very, very good at creating stories to support where we are because it's so comfortable in its

discomfort. We're miserable, but we know it. And it's so, so hard to believe, to let go of that and be and do something else.

(...)

Sorry, I got a little, little serious there, but that's just my reality.

You said there... These are questions that you answer often when you're teenagers. What were the... I'm so curious about this moment for you. What tipped you off to not knowing who you were?

I think because I found myself living in a constant state of reactionary anxiety and anger.

don't know

what your aim is,

(...) not even offense. How do you just sit and be? How do you take a moment? How do you not feel threatened? So if you're angry and you're feeling threatened, it tends to be because somebody is,

even a purposefully, but you will interpret it as attacking something very special to me. And it could simply be that they are presenting a point of view vastly different than yours, especially if it's a valid point of view.

It's more terrifying.

(...)

You know?

(...)

Yes, that's a great way to put it. Pretty much. My poor husband.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

I mean, I actually miss you guys.

I just, oh, well, we worked hard for that. So I love that because that is just, I mean, I'm telling you what, you guys are on the other end. This whole emptiness syndrome, I mean, I kind of get it, but just wait, you guys.

(...) Someday when your kids are out and you have that time alone again, you can have sex whenever you want. You don't have to be quiet or actually maybe you should be, but if you're not, your kids don't apparently move out.

(...)

So I've been told.

(...)

Yeah.(...) Yeah.

(...)

But I mean,

it is so awesome.(...) But Drew and I were able, though, by working from home and homeschooling at home,(...) which was sometimes torture, but it's impossible to ignore when

you're that close together. It's impossible to ignore when you have issues that have to be addressed.

(...)

You cannot ignore them. So we really had to slog

through things and sort things out. And I actually love that because our relationship is just so much stronger for that.

(...)

And just, yeah, a lot more fun

now.(...)

On topics you wanted to talk about, you said having boundaries and identity while holding them in communion with sacrifice.

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.(...) Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

why like putting the name to both of You know our drastic sides of this that we've been trying to hash out it was just that's why it was so much of a gut punch

me, I think that as I was struggling to find out who I was, I had to set

Boundaries for myself that were pretty tight, meaning I wasn't in community, actually. I wasn't generous at all with other people.

(...)

to sort through my own shit, honestly. And I couldn't do that with feedback, no matter even if it came from loved ones. It wasn't possible for me because I needed to

things through a different lens, not through the lens from which I came.(...) That wasn't working.

(...)

So

I gave myself that time, I had to figure out how do I reevaluate boundaries? How do I honor what people have to say, honor how they feel,

not feel obliged to do anything about that necessarily?

(...)

And then on the other hand, the biggest, I think the most important thing is I am this person with these hopes, expectations, and dreams.

Here is another person with these hopes and expectations and dreams. Here is this community.

(...)

And

we have to sacrifice to actually make all that--and that's so hard to explain--in order to make all that come together, like, I can't be thinking only about myself. You guys, it might be something super, super simple.

(...)

Sacrifice to me, I mean, think of it as sometimes people relate more to detachment or letting go of your ego. These are all the same things, you know. In many cases, you're having a conversation with somebody and they're feeling really passionate about something, and you may agree or you may disagree. Maybe your sacrifice is silence.

(...)

know, I mean, so I'm not necessarily talking. I think sometimes people think of sacrifices as

these really huge things, and they can be.

(...)

But sometimes it's these little things, and the key is doing it cheerfully.

(...)

And I'm

not saying I do too. I do too. So,

but so when I

me, if you want to will the best,(...) you know, by loving somebody, whether you're loving them as a friend, whether you're loving them as a partner, or you're loving them as a community member, if you want to will the best for them, you have to be willing to make little sacrifices. And as long as it's not in any way invading you as a person or your boundaries, then that's what we should be doing most of the time, I think.

Mm hmm.

(...)

Yeah.

I'm needing to figure out

it's really interesting you ask that because when I first had my exit, I was like, "Oh, I'm going to do this.

in your brain? Like where do you concede sacrifice? When is that valuable to you? Or when have you had payoff from that motion?

So it's really interesting you ask that because when I first had my existential crisis when we were, you know, first married and I was pregnant, and actually, this might have been a year into it because we were already in the house on Brookford Drive.

(...)

I can remember here was my phrase because boundaries for me at that point in time meant boundaries for my own emotions and reactions.

(...)

And

I

would wake up and my question was, "Yes, yes." So my question was, "Does it matter?"

my most basic one, "Matter."

That's it. I would wake up every morning, anything,(...)

anything. That was my most basic one, Emily. Like, that's how I started. It was like, "Does it matter?"

(...)

Meaning someone said something to me this way. Someone shared this with me. Someone noticed how I'm saying someone. These are all reactive sort of things. It was, "Does it really matter?"

So that was my, and that's a very, frankly, that's a very childish question. And that's really for people who

have a whole lot of self-identity. It was one of the reasons why I continued to homeschool for so long.

And then as I got older, Emily, it was

as a homeschooling mom, see these questions change.

one of the things I loved about homeschooling is that

could make the sacrifice for me to be home. It was definitely very, very difficult in the beginning. We were not, for a long time, we were not financially wealthy to be able to do that, especially when we're getting special curriculum for dyslexia.

(...)

And the boundaries became,(...) "Why do people assume I can do everything for them because

I'm not doing anything?"

So that was a boundary we had to learn

to set. Why, when I called the volunteer for something and they hear that I'm a homeschooling mom, do they want to put me in the kids' craft corner?

(...)

You know,(...) these

sort of boundaries,(...) little did they know, right?

(...)

So,

and

then I know I'm taking a long way to answer your question, Emily, but I think that boundaries and how you define them and what questions you ask yourself, you're just doing the best that you can every single time.

(...)

Uh huh.

You know you actually just need to feel it first, and I'm like no, but how do I know you just have to feel it?

Ah, yes.(...) Interesting.

(...)

Mm.

I don't know if this will answer the question, but since we're on the whole therapy thing, mine was,

(...) "Why do you take everything so seriously and assume it's about you?"

(...)

So does it matter to me, men, why are you so egocentric that you

create stories who is a

brave, standing alone in the wilderness?(...) Renee, Renee, what's her name?

(...)

Thank you. Yeah. She did such a beautiful job of explaining what we do when we're very egocentric. We create these, these, these, these stories to justify ourselves really, or we create stories that don't exist. So for me, Kelly, doesn't matter.

(...) I had emotion. I had plenty of emotion.(...) The question was, did I need to have it? And was that a, was that particular emotion even appropriate?

(...)

And how long did I plan on hanging onto it?

(...) So,(...)

Yeah. So I had, I had more emotion to spare.

(...)

Would you like some either of you? Oh, I've done a pretty good job now.

(...)

Being human is hard,

girls. It's so hard.

(...)

look like during this time of self-explanation for you?

he was,(...) well, he, he actually, so it's very, very difficult when you are a single income family and you choose to do that because it's a complicated, it's a complicated balance and it's back to the whole sacrifice.

(...)

And I'm leaving your question of, you know, how much do we sacrifice? When do we sacrifice? How

do we sacrifice? Should we sacrifice?(...) And Drew had to carry the financial burden for us.

(...)

And I think at the time it was so difficult that that was really his focus

and mine

was the kids. And that's, that's a difficulty right there because we didn't have a shared purpose then. Not really.

(...)

So I

was

doing my thing. He was doing his thing and I was struggling. So honestly, I mean, there was lots going on in the house during that time. I doubt it was 100% pleasant for either of us.

Frankly, because self discovery is hard.

Yeah. So when you say you didn't have a shared purpose, you're both dreamers. Did

dream, at

we, we, we did, but I think when Drew's dad died and he needed to take over, he chose to take over his dad's business in order to make sure that his

mom was taken care of financially.

(...)

That was a sacrifice. I don't think either of us truly understood at the time

and really took

its toll and how we journeyed through that aspect of it was oftentimes very hard.

he was going through his

own thing because he is a dreamer and he is an entrepreneur and he's super creative and to, and to take over this business that quite frankly is dry and boring and, and.

(...)

Thankless really was very difficult. It was hard. And I know you guys all know that when you're doing something like that, it is super hard to feel fulfilled and happy.

(...)

So

this is where a lot

So I think a lot

of our journey since then was how do we build purpose together and how do you reclaim hope for the future?(...) And I think we've done, we've come a long way and done a pretty good job. So I'm, I'm very grateful for that.

Sure. Absolutely.(...) Yeah. We just, we needed that nuclear family time. We needed a fresh start where we didn't have history in geographical location. And

so you guys will laugh at this. So we had had some

reactions within the area where we were about homeschooling that were less than, than pleasant. It could be random strangers when you're out at the grocery store trying to quiz your kids to an actual pastor of a church telling us that this particular church doesn't like homeschoolers because it takes away from the pro-kill schools. So we ran into a lot of different stuff and we are really looking forward to maybe people with a bigger mindset who by nature of geography and remoteness where we're willing to find what is it that, that joins us and brings us together. So

walk into St. Louis, the King Catholic church for the first time and there's this woman behind the desk and I look at her and I said, my name is Megan. I'm new.(...) I homeschool.

And she looks at me and she goes, oh Megan, it's so lovely to meet you. I work here and I homeschool too. And I said, they let you work here?

(...)

And she's become one of my best friends since then. So it's been

very cathartic for us, Kelly. I mean, it was, I think that we had so many different

egocentric behaviors that we had. To let go of and it really allowed us to do that here. I mean, the first time we got an invitation from somebody, you know, hey, come out to my house. We're having a party on Saturday.

(...)

I kid you not. I texted her. I said, so Sarah, when you invited us over, did you mean that?(...) And she's like, yes, Megan.

(...)

Yes, it wasn't even like we were thinking more of inauthentic behaviors.(...) Was that just a, oh yeah, come over or was it a truly, you know, am I invited to your home? Anyways, it's been lovely here.

and and he took this job and It's been really good for us in a lot of ways and I actually really like wasa. I said it again.

But at the same

time

even more difficult for us or maybe it's good for us It's probably actually just a really good learning opportunity To have to set boundaries with people that we really

rely on for community for our livelihood for

the success of our family and So it's yeah, it's something we're definitely still figuring out, but it's tricky

It is.(...) And you do have to at the risk of sounding new age, which I don't mean at all. You do need first and foremost to take care of yourself and your own.

that changes. It might change week to week.

(...)

If you're fast out, you call everybody for the next three days and say, I'm canceling everything. I need to recharge and none of that should be taken personally. But unfortunately, I think that happens a lot.

That's a challenge for sure.

(...)

Mm.

Oh, you'll get there.(...)

I mean, you guys don't get there. Kelly.

When you

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

actually it's really, really important.(...) So, you know, especially, especially the way the way I was growing up or grew up, female sexuality is is should be fulfilled.

(...)

You know, it is one of those things when people ask me those questions, I think, OK, well, the truth of the matter is when we are at our best and when we are most intimate,(...) of course, we are sexually intimate.(...) And when you're going through long dry spells,

would tell everybody stop and figure out why.

(...)

Are you working too hard? Is he working too hard? Are you spending too much time apart? Have you not gotten enough babysitters? Have you not gotten on a date? Is there something underlying problem?(...) Because there I know there's I know there are people in the world where the sexual intimacy and intimacy from the very beginning is not as important. And that's that's their own journey. But when you are and it is important and it's not happening regularly, however, you define regular. But when someone starts telling me they're down to like, you know, once or twice a month, I'm like, whoa, what's the problem?

(...)

think it's so important, actually.

and we're very earthy right like Baba prayed for Sadie and William

it's just interesting because I don't know if it's an O'Leary mindset(...) And

sex is so important and indicative of how your relationship is going because I don't think that's everybody's mindset

(...)

Oh,

(...)

( Laughter ) So that's his upbringing. And his love language is physical touch.(...) So like in Kyle's perfect world, it would be a daily occurrence.

Yeah.

(...)

Yes.

and I and I will I will say to all this, though,

I mean, because I feel like sometimes people overthink this, this is the question of sexuality and how much and how many and what requires what's healthy. I will definitely say that after your baby, however many babies you choose to have, you take over how much time you need. There's no magic formula.(...) And especially if you are choosing to breastfeed,(...) being touched out is a real thing.(...) And I think it's really important. Yes,(...) I 100 percent believe in fulfillment of female sexuality and that you should be able to to work with your partner and have amazing experiences with communication. But oftentimes when you're in those situations, the time is not right. And neither should you feel obliged.

(...)

That's let's talk about sacrifice again.

(...)

I mean, really, I mean, that's that's that's part of it.

(...)

Mm hmm.

(...)

Yes.(...) Yes.

that I'm on right now while I figure out what the hell is going on downstairs since that delivery of Sweet Baby Boy. But I will say also in the meantime, we're doing homework.(...) We're reading, we have this book

(...)

Oh.

(...)

Oh, what?

(...)

Yes.

(...)

I love that.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

I think you need to put that that book in your notes.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yes.

(...)

Yeah, I tried that scheduling sucks.

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

I mean, it just means you got what to do anyways. I'm sure this is not part of what I put on my agenda. But

(...)

I know.

(...)

No. No. No. No. No.

(...)

I'm curious when you hear the word matriarchy.

Mm hmm. That I do feel like that's a loaded word, both positive and negative. So

matriarchy, when I first think of the word matriarchy, I immediately think of my mom and the Baba's. So what that brings to mind to me, and I mean, all the Bulgarian Baba's that I grew up with, I think of strong resourceful women.

(...)

I think of women who fed people like that back to the whole community aspect. They fed community. They were they were with not just their own kind. I think of people who are really strong in tradition. I think of people who understand that food and tradition is what keeps your family and your community together. And a lot of that to me is very powerful and very beautiful.

(...)

And then I think I feel like it's been warped a little bit and it's become a more aggressive form of power that I don't relate to personally.

(...)

That it means. I

things women as opposed to this inclusivity of tradition and food that that my Baba's showed me.

I also found sometimes that it was difficult for me to figure out what that meant for me and my nuclear family.

(...)

And figuring how to honor where Drew came from, which I did not initially do a very good job of because I was like, well, my way is better.

(...)

And I'm the matriarch. So but the truth of the matter is, you know, when whether

when you hold together food and tradition and that is the thing oftentimes this is this is what unites community.

(...)

And for me, that is what a matriarch can often do in a really unrecognized and yet extraordinary way.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah. No, I'm hearing you. Yeah.

(...)

Right.

(...)

Right.

(...)

No, but that's super. Okay.

(...)

So but exactly, though. So sort of like I was talking to a friend of mine who who goes to a different church and she brought together another group of young moms. And their goal was to look at the existing matriarchy and choose the moral models that they felt exemplified a positive influence. So not not the purse lips that purse lifted disapprovers by any stretch. The ones who see the crying baby and smile, the ones that see the kid that runs up the aisle and goes and maybe picks them up and tickles them and throws them in the air and takes them out to play.

(...)

And they decided their goal and they're all in their 30s, you know, their babies. Their goal is to age into that so they can create this environment for other women. It allows that that that that sort of inclusivity of of of matriarchy, a femininity of different ways of doing things. I mean, it's actually all rolled up into that then, you know, it's very welcoming. It's very loving. It's very accepting. And I I love that. That's sort of to that point of what you're saying is how do we do this moving forward? And that's a small, tiny example, but really exactly.

(...)

And so one of the top three is like big big clubs and clubs. And putting a lot of things in my background too but I don't know. ( Pause )

that's-- I love that QLA

though. But see, that's all about time and place as well though. So one of my favorite things is I don't have the responsibility of kids as I can create time and space in my home for young women and couples, my friends who are younger than I am, sometimes it's couples, sometimes it's their own. But I used to feel bad that I didn't invite the families, now I do it on purpose. It's like, nope, my house is for your chance to get away. My house is a time for you to-- for me to cook food, to do something, to have you over. And I love to be able to do that or if someone needs to take a walk or go do something, I can do that. And it's just awesome.

(...)

But I think one of the things too though is recognizing in our journey that there's things we can and cannot do.

And I do think that's really important. Sometimes when you have kids,(...) there's things you can't do all the time. You chose to have kids, your time is going to come again, but in the meantime, no one should feel bad or bend over backward or change circumstances in order to hopefully, you know, create situations and times where everything is perfectly aligned and you can come or you can do this. And I don't mean this maliciously at all because I've actually tried in my mind, oh, how can I do this so everybody can come? I'm like, oh, you can't.(...) And so that's what I love about this changing of roles as a matriarchy is what opportunities arise(...) as your circumstances change. Where you can, and I think maybe instead of thinking of sacrifice all the time, actually, it's more like a giving of yourself.

(...)

And it's such a giving and a receiving and it's such a beautiful thing.

(...)

So hard.

(...)

(Chuckles)

(...)

Yep.

(...)

Yes, it is.

(Laughs)

(...)

Yeah, yeah,(...) yeah.

(...)

might have perhaps have gone too far the other way. I think I loved growing up with

I actually find the matriarchy and tradition can sometimes be actually two different things. Sometimes they're the same, sometimes they're not.

(...)

So for me,

found it was less about matriarchy that way and more about how do I form healthy female relationships, which I didn't really do as much until I moved up here.

(...)

So matriarchy for me in many ways, and maybe it was a result of having two boys and

It's less matriarchy for me and more femininity. How do I identify myself as a person? Identify myself as a female. How do I retain a female-ness within a house that's strongly male? How do I relate healthfully and with joy and gratitude and authenticity towards other women?

(...)

That's what changed for me.

(...)

I think both because I realized when I moved, if I was going to break these barriers I had created within myself and become a more complete person, that I needed to be brave and I needed to reach out. But honestly, you guys,(...) I don't think,

it's so interesting.

(...)

My relationship, I would say, with my better friends in the past three years have suddenly become more authentic and more intimate because of the day I sat down, it was after church, we were all having coffee, and I said, "You know what?

"We don't really have a strong Thanksgiving tradition here "by ourselves and we find we are lonely."

Will one of you please invite us over?

It was, you know, we're not supposed to say things like that.

(...)

It's not really in today's society, I don't know, it feels like vulnerability isn't something we're supposed to display.(...) And from that moment, of course, they looked at me and they're like, "Why didn't you tell him sooner?"

(...)

(Laughs) And I think that marked even yet another level, am I willing to show people where I need help, where I am weak, where am I vulnerable?

(...)

And I have learned to do that with my female friends and it has just been

a good thing.

(...)

I've always known that my mom and sisters were there for me, actually I take that back, my siblings.

(...)

Even as I've gone through points of my life where some of my siblings have irritated the absolute shit out of me, I haven't always liked them, I'm not saying at all it was all them because oftentimes it was me, but at the time it was way easier to blame them.

was just really gifted, so I think by having that initial,

come from that, it took me a long time to realize I could find that from other women, Kelly. I think actually, this is interesting, I was in a car, this wasn't that long ago, at your mom and dad's house, Kelly was in the car with me, I made some bitchy remark about women,

(...)

and Kelly's, not even been, you probably don't even remember Kelly, maybe you do, but it was unkind, but it was to the extent of how women are.

(...)

And I've always admired the way that you girls had developed really healthy female relationships, I felt at a younger age, because I certainly did not. And I saw the look on Kelly's face, and I just stopped, and I was like, oh my gosh,(...) boy I'm sorry.

(...)

That was so uncalled for, I just took my own pain and threw it at you, sorry.

(...)

So that was just something that took me a lot longer to find, and I'm so grateful for it.

Yes, yeah.

(...)

Sadie won't find them for me.

(...)

(Laughs) Yeah, yeah.

(...)

(Laughs) Uh-huh.

(...)

(Keyboard Clicking)

Wow, yeah.

(...)

It's a hard thing to do, it's a very vulnerable position, I think,

(...)

Mm, oh, okay, so actually it's interesting that you say that, because there's two different times

(...)

I can think of right now within the past two weeks.(...) And they're just like, they pop at me. So the first

I'm on the treadmill running,(...) and I am up to 3.25 miles, and the last time I jogged, I did 3.25 miles, I did an incline of 1.5, these numbers matter to me. (Laughs)(...) I did a 5.5 miles per hour for two miles, and then I busted out at 6.0, and I had no pain, and I felt comfortable, and I was breathing regularly,

(...)

and it was, and this was all hard fought for. And I got off there, and I was like, yes, I am awesome, I am healthy, I am strong, this makes me gorgeous, this makes me empowered, this makes me,(...) woman hear me roar.

(...)

(Laughs) I mean, it was fabulous.

(...)

And then the second time, Drew and I went to Sarasota, and one of the things I find, while I love the grunge up here, I don't often have a chance to be physically feminine, and I miss that. And so I said, I wanna go shopping.

(...)

So we go to this little boutique shop, now the first store, it's hilarious, you guys. I get in this outfit, and there's a tie somehow, and it goes like it's supposed to crisscross my breasts, and then tie over here, and leave a hole down here. And I'm like, what the hell, I don't even know how to do this, so I barely cover my girls, right? Megan being Megan, and I walk out, and I said, can someone help me please?

(...)

And I love it, this little 20, 20-some year old girl helps me figure out how to stuff my girls in, how to get it tied, and it was fabulous, right?

(...)

Yes, it's a dress, it's a dress. With like this.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

So I realized that as much fun as it is, I would like something actually that I could possibly wear up north. So we go shopping, and I'm not a shopper, and we finally find a couple dresses.

(...)

(Laughing) (Laughing) You know, it's interesting, that's a great question, because I almost feel like it is vacation, Megan, and I'm wondering why.

(...)

Now part of it is, frankly,

(...)

there aren't enough opportunities for me to wear that type of dress up north because it's fancy and it's cold.

(...)

(Laughing) But,

actually thought about that, Emily, and I'm not sure, and I wanna think deeper as to why, frankly, yeah.

(...)

Why I would consider that to be vacation, Megan.

(...)

Yeah, but I'm of an age now, though, do I need vacation, Megan? I don't know.

(...)

That's a question I'm asking.

(...)

Mm.

(...)

When I'm

yeah, sure.

(...)

No, I mean, Drew and I, yeah. No, actually, Drew and I both have a similar tendency to need to be geographically distant in order to really relax.

(...) I think that's pretty common.

Yeah, no, I have definitely feel just as beautiful when I am hot and sweaty and have accomplished something as I do when I put on my cute little dress

(...)

that displays my assets.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

Nice.

(...)

Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.

(...)

Nice!

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

That's awesome.

(...)

I

What is one trait about yourself that

(Clicking)

Hmm.

I would say...

Being peaceable, saying less. I don't know how to...

(...)

Scarcity of words,(...) actually, Kelly.

(...)

Scarcity of words.

(...)

It has turned out to be one of the most...

(...)

Oh.

(...)

Relaxing and peaceful things I have done for myself.

(...)

Yes, and...

(...)

Yes, because I overused it and there were times when my sharp wit was perhaps.

(...)

Not even perhaps, it was definitely not kind.

(...)

And I think that I don't want to be a mean person. I don't even wanna be the witty person.

(...)

No, yeah.

(...)

Honestly, interesting. Yeah, no, it is. I would like to be a very peaceable person, not in a weak way. I think people think sometimes that means... I mean, it's so good with

I am and where I'm going,(...) that I just become very good at listening.

(...)

And that as I present myself to the world and share who I am, whether that's through words or not, it leaves people, they may not even know why, but I would like them to leave from my company,

(...)

either not having noticed(...) or feeling better about themselves, more at peace, something.

(...)

And I would like to spread hope.

(...)

I've been thinking about these things, so.

I told myself, light me again. Remember, keep this light.

(...)

(Music)

(...)

You've been listening to The Real Mom Hub. Our music is by Naomi O'Leary. You can find us on social at The Real Mom Hub. We're not the authority or even very educated on the medical issues discussed. Do your own research. Talk to an expert. Make your own decisions. And call us if you learn anything new. If you like what you hear, follow us on Instagram. Or better yet, subscribe to our newsletter. If you don't, that's fine. We can all move on. Our purpose here is community, so if we've resonated with you, tell a friend. Thanks for listening.