Episode 8: Holiday Survival Guide: Four Agreements Style

The holidays are just around the corner—full of magic, memories, and, let’s be real, a little bit of chaos too. But what if we could tackle the season with a little more calm and a lot more grace? In this episode, we’re pulling wisdom from Don Miguel Ruiz’s The Four Agreements to help you enjoy the holidays without losing your mind.

We’re talking about how to:
🎁 Keep your words kind (even when Uncle Joe brings up politics).
🎄 Not take Aunt Linda’s parenting advice personally.
🍪 Avoid assuming your toddler will sit quietly through dinner.
✨ And do your absolute best—you've got this!

Let’s get real about what it takes to make the holidays joyful (or at least less stressful). Grab a cup of cocoa (or a mimosa), and let’s figure this out together! 🎉

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https://the-real-mom-hub.kit.com/8a0a513b8a

"The Four Agreements" by Don Miguel Ruiz
https://www.miguelruiz.com/the-four-agreements

"The Calm Christmas" podcast
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-calm-christmas-podcast-with-beth-kempton/id1537869969

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

Today, we're talking about the upcoming holidays.(...) Thanksgiving and Christmas for us. Yes, and all of the different family gatherings that accompany those holidays,(...) all the joys, but also the challenges.(...) So today we're talking about a book and a concept that is going to help us make the most out of these relationships with our families.

And leave those interactions just feeling more love, more joy.

(...)

Yeah, hope you enjoy.

(...)

Hello.

(...)

Hi. How's your breakfast? Breakfast is so good. Really loving it. Really here for it.

(...)

Can we show up our mugs again?

Oh yeah. Cheers. How cute are we? So cute.

our sister Sadie and Naomi got us these little mugs. With our logo on it.

So cute. They're so cute. We love them.

Also we love the mugs.

Yes.

how are you on this Wednesday? So good.

I'm so good. I'm so excited to talk about our topic today because

I think I need to come clean to everyone about something. I

love the holiday season.(...) I just love it.

Oh,

you don't really need to come clean about anything.

Oh, a lot of people hate it. A lot of people low key, like they don't want to talk about it.

they're like, the holidays are really hard for me for a variety of reasons. They make a ton of sense to me.

So we're being really annoying again and saying we are so blessed. Love the holidays. I love the question. When are you going to get your tree?

Oh, I don't know.

fat the past several years, we would always like

take a drive with our friend Anderson and like go pick it out on the mountain.

(...) And they'd always be really sad. And they were the worst trees,

but the best trees like they were like little Charlie Brown.

Yeah, you should post a pic. I mean, they were bad.

I love mountain trees. Oh, I love the idea. They were ridiculous. And then last year, we just went to like a

like a parking lot or no, wait, I can't even remember what we did. Well, that's sad.

I'm pretty sure you were like,

considering not even getting one or something. I think there was some Scrooge. There's some Scrooge energy last year. I would have there's I think it was your first Christmas back in Wisconsin and there was some Scrooge energy.

Really sorry you had experienced that. So I'm really having it ready to go now. I'm always ready to okay,

sorry you had Scrooge energy from last for me last year.

Because maybe I'm making it up.

Because I was thinking about the tree today.

And Kevin's like, let's get a tree right away. And I used to be

I used to want to wait because we do a real tree so that we can have the tree and make it green and fresh for longer totally.

but then

got the tree right after things. Right after Thanksgiving. Good job with the mute. We're getting better people. Emily just coughed and muted herself before she so you didn't have to edit and now you have to edit that out. Or I don't because I'm proud of you and I just want the world to know. Thank you.

Kevin was like, let's get the tree right after Thanksgiving and we did. And then you know what, we just had joy for longer. And our house did not burn down. And we still had that tree up until epiphany.

So I'm on board now. I'm a tree right away kind of girl now.

usually let

Kyle Kyle so good

child like whimsy and joy. My husband, he's also really good at adult things too. But those are some of my favorite things about him in my day to day is he'll just get so jacked about something. So I kind of usually let him drive lead the charge that like, we gotta get a tree this weekend.

(...)

Oh, that's so fun. Wow. Okay, I'm feeling festive.

(...) Me too.(...)

Me too. And also Christmas music.(...) Oh,

he tries to play that in October, like before Halloween happens. Yeah, that's a no go.

You gotta keep it special. You gotta save something.

Yes. For the, you know, so the rule of November 1st, he may he cannot turn on the Christmas station till November 1st.

just got so excited about the holidays. I didn't even, I didn't even start this off. Right.

in this week, tell me about one thing you're loving about mothering.

And tell me about something that's hard.

loving. So I have a very, very busy week.

one of those weeks where I'm having a flashback to when I was a full time teacher, because I'm helping

a musical and it's tech week.

just had my kids at rehearsal,

which

in the day,

felt kind of good about because I think it's a cool thing for them to see like a their mom working,

be a lot of high schoolers doing really cool things together, see just like the arts, like it's that's a cool thing for them to be around. But it's late nights. It's Germany high schools, it's high schoolers up in their face wanting to play with them like they don't know boundaries, you know, like it's it's a lot for my kids.

(...)

But I'm loving it this week, because it's a snapshot of their life. It's not like their whole life anymore.

(...)

And so I've just had them there a couple times.(...) And,

know, Charlie even got to watch some bluey because he was over it and tired on Monday. And he sat in the auditorium and watched a little bluey and I was fine with it.

And that felt so good because I would have had a lot of guilt about that before.

But I was like, you know what, he can snuggle up in this cushy seat,

maybe take in some musical theater while he watches a show that I actually like. And Nora just wanted to be on stage. I mean, she shot the frog door that shit which Charlie did too at that age, but he was so tired.

Like how is she so she's one? Yeah, one and a half. Oh, she was. How is she like

asking to get on the stage? Oh, she was just taking herself. So like on the stage, dancing with the kids, and we're talking about like 20 high schoolers. And Nora is right up there just like jamming out. I mean, it's so funny. So I just loved actually being able to have them there. And just also having those kids see me as their former teacher,

making a choice that was for my children.(...) And them seeing me be happy, but also like want to be there with these, I just say my kids for everybody with my former students

want to see them succeed. It was just like a really grateful circle moment that I felt really good about.

that just sounds like a village moment. Like that is your life. It's funny. Yeah, the pieces of your life together, which how great for everyone.

And it's also funny that my village included, you know, 20 plus high schoolers this week. That's kind of funny. But yeah, yeah. Yeah. Oh, so good. Yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, so nice.

Okay, what's hard for me this week?

(...)

Charlie's just whiny this week.

Which I guess we could connect the dots and say he's not at a normal week.

(...)

But it's just been difficult to be patient because like, we you know, we can't cut his pancake the right way.(...) And he wanted to stir the boiling water and I didn't let him like it just just whining, just a lot of whining, not having a lot of like good one on one with him this week. So there's trade off. And that's been hard.

going to connect that to mine. So driving home from Wausau because we saw you guys this weekend. So fun. It was amazing. I loved it. It was so good. We're driving home and I was just unpacking with Kyle. I was just like, yeah, Charlie doesn't get what he wants. Or he's like in a place of not wanting get not getting the thing he desires. And he gets sad.

Consistently.

I was just watching it happen all weekend. And it was the most confusing thing for me to watch. I'm like,

set. Why are you getting sad about this kid? Like, what's your problem? Like, I said,

(...)

the emotion that you go to, like, I'm not angry. No.

I was blowing my mind.

I never thought about it till you said that.

Yeah,

(...)

I just can't watch it happen.

And you and Kevin were so sweet and kind and graceful about it. I think I would have been like, don't be a baby, you know. And I'm hoping to get over that toxic trade on myself before my kids reach that stage. So it's really good for me to see you and Kevin handling that beautifully.

I just I still don't understand it. This tiny person emotion. So anyways, I was talking that about that with Kyle.

He was just quiet. And he goes,

yeah, well, I mean, I definitely would choose sadness over just extreme rage for my child when he doesn't get what he wants. So that brings me to my thing. That's hard.

(...)

just lay it out for us.

Karen is a little over a year. It's 15 months.

This kid, he's very loud, very loud, loud, loudest baby I've ever met. Oh my God. Which is honestly, I kind of love it. It's really funny. It's got a big mouth. It's hilarious.

He has been using this tone of voice

makes my blood boil. Like, I just he he screams at me.(...) And I lose it. I mean, I don't usually lose it around him. But I'm like,

feel like he's too young to parent. I don't know how to teach him. I'm trying to teach him words. How do I teach him about

tone of voice when he's this young, but this sound that he makes

for the most minor thing that's not going his way is just

I'm just getting mad thinking about it.

(...)

And you know what, this is telling for both of us because Kevin and I are both, I would say way more sensitive than you and Kyle.

(...)

So, you know, we're seeing that trait in our child and it's really bothersome to us.

And you're seeing the rage come out.

yeah.

(...)

Totally.

(...)

And it's the thing where, you know, you hear about parents saying

it's most difficult for me when my child is embodying. Yeah. Failing personal feelings of my own.

But you see as a personal thing, which like, frankly, other people might not see

as a personal feeling of things about yourself that you're not that you happy about. Yeah.(...) Never did I ever think that it would start at one year of age. So here we

Like the stuff you heard this weekend, he was on company behavior.

(...)

You did you have not I don't think anyone in our family

He saves it for home. Somehow as a one year old, he already saves the worst for home.

So knowing that you haven't heard it and you thought you'd heard it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I want to hear what you're loving. But I just need to say that Kieran is now sucking his thumb after being with Nora and Kieran was never a thumb, thumb sucker. And he's not sucking his thumb.

He's like,

do I do with this? Why is he sticking in it? Yeah. And Nora is going, huh?

(...)

Which is the sound Kieran makes about everything right now. It sounds like Scooby Doo.

So funny. Okay. What are you loving about mothering? He is snuggling more.

Oh, cute. Not just around nap time.

But sometimes he'll just like run into my arms and melt into me in the middle of play.(...) Yeah. And that's new. And it is just the best thing ever.

So cute.

Yeah, it's amazing.

so this topic that we're going to talk about

the holidays with grace and poise and joy

our families. Yep. Nuclear extended.

(...)

This came up while you were at our house as well.

we started talking about it

dinner, the four of us. Yeah.

was just funny, because we're all just sort of sharing like the struggles and like what we want and also

in which we may be bulldozed to try to like make

in laws the way that our family is, you know, just trying to make what's familiar, even if that's not,

know, what's unique to that family and

So I just think it's funny that we ended up trying to role play this like we're sitting around the dinner table, like trying to role play. What are

so what are unique holiday family experiences were. And I would say we failed on an epic level. Totally. It was funny.

Well, and that was it was a joke. It was never like, let's get deep into how we can know we were like, we just been talking about it. And it was funny. We're like, let's try it. We couldn't do it.

No, it was a disaster. But it was hilarious. It didn't make us think, you know, because we are about to embark on a big family gathering that is actually unique for this holiday for us even because

grandma mom's mom is turning 90 this year and she loves Thanksgiving.

(...)

So she wanted all of her family

one place for Thanksgiving. So we're all driving to Ohio. There will be how many of us?

don't even know.

I mean, a lot. Yeah, a ton of people.

And a lot of people we haven't seen in years. Yep. We don't see often. Yep.

Cousins, cousins, kids, new babies, uncles.

Great grandkids for grandma. Our kids, cousins, kids. Yep.

mean, everyone's going to be parenting a little differently. Everyone is going to be having different needs for their babies.

We just had an election.

(...)

Great.

(...)

Love that. Yeah.

(...)

And I know like

opinions

opposite ends of the spectrum for different reasons,(...) politically.

Also, okay, we have people flying in from

We're coming in from Wisconsin.

Multiple parts of Texas. We have people coming in.

Because Texas is like country sized. Yep. Oh yeah, like city and then very rural.(...) And we have East Coast and everyone's gathering in Ohio. I mean, it's just a whole kaleidoscope.

And then we're going to be able to see

family.

They also are.

afterwards. So I'm just thinking about our husbands. Like that's going to be a whole lot because not only did they have to navigate one family dynamic, full of people that they've honestly only met like at weddings. Yeah. Then we're also going to do round two

the other side of the family, which is a whole different dynamic that we've grown up navigating. Yeah. Yep.

It was really kind of you to think of our husbands. I hadn't even gotten there.

I just did right in this moment. So thank you. Thank you.

(...) And then Christmas,

an off year for the Oakland. So it's with our husbands. It's with our in-laws. Yeah. This year. So. Yeah.(...) Lots to think about. Lots to talk about. Lots to talk about. So I'm excited to hear about what you are hoping for,

how you're going to approach all these different things. And I'm going to outline a toxic trade on myself really quickly. Sweet. Before we dive into the framework. Let's go.

this toxic trade is I will hear interviews that I'm really stoked on for like different authors, or I will hear about a book that I'm like, this is going to change my life. I got to get this book and I will buy the book and I will read part of it, or I will skim it.

And then my sweet husband will actually read the book and then try and have a thought provoking conversation with me about it. So we are going to be talking about a book that we both own

Callie, you have read. Okay.

I have skimmed. Wait, I thought I had read it. It's really funny that you just said that. I was sure I'd read the whole thing. I just pulled it off the bookshelf.

Can you see my book?

Okay, so we're, we're a disaster.

I did my homework. I listened to a little podcast summary of it this morning.

Well, you can tell everyone about it then.

(...)

Oh, cheers.(...) Cheers.

Okay, the book is The Four Agreements

Miguel Ruiz.

It's based on Toltec spirituality. I don't think it's a religion. I don't know anything more than that. But it's basically these agreements that are supposed to help you live a peaceful like heaven on earth sort of life.

So he has these four agreements that if you can, you know, take out the bad and sort of

yourself and really like make these agreements part of your personality,

be life changing.

So we're not there yet, because we haven't read the whole book.

But well, okay, but this came to mind. Kyle brought these agreements up a few days ago, actually, he said, Do you remember the four agreements we were

talking about why you were like the four agreements and then you're like, I've never read it.

Well, we're talking about(...) navigating family dynamics, as well as the friendships in our community. And even if you haven't read the book, these are just, it's pretty straightforward. Yeah, they're, they're very

(...)

heavy hitting, concise, I think they cover a lot of ground. So

four agreements,

be impeccable with your word.

Don't take anything personally.

Don't make assumptions.(...) Always do your best.

Those are the four.

Okay, so be impeccable with your word. Speak with integrity. Say only what you mean. Avoid using the word to speak against yourself or to gossip about others. Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

I mean, that's a heavy hitter. What if we just stuck with being impeccable with your word? I mean, honestly,

well, I was thinking about this podcast. And I was like, if I'm impeccable with my word,

the amount of dead space, but then I'm gonna have to edit out, will be more than the words coming out of my mouth.

And we don't get to go back and edit out conversations. So it's really, I think useful to just think about the intention, the intention to be impeccable with your word.

So what does grandma always say?

doesn't she always in the morning pray that her words are healing, not hurting? Yes.

So in true grandma form.

Gosh, I mean, I even think about that with parenting, like we were talking about the Montessori toddler book.

And she has a whole section on

to say good job, because that's just really creating external validation, you know, so like if Charlie colored the picture,(...)

he still does this. I've tried to be really careful, but he'll say like, do you like it, mom?

And it's hard to not say yes, you know.

And I don't know how to handle that.

I guess my point is, it's really hard to be impeccable with your words.

Yeah, well, and I think also,

he's going to get external feedback from the world anyways. So yeah, is it so terrible that he would receive positive external validation from you? Like,

would it be so bad for you to say, gosh, I you know what, I really do like that thing that you just did.

So when it's actions, I, I don't feel bad about it. Like, you know, if he's just been really

company, or like, Tuesday, he just was so helpful and just like, got his shoes on and was like directing Nora, and he was just like a really upstanding three year old on Tuesday. And I don't at all feel bad like praising him for those things. I think it's more like

or dance or things that are I guess more art related things that are more of a personal expression

I want him to

whether he likes that.

I guess that doesn't at all tie into holidays, but that's where I went to right away with just parenting a three year old. Yeah, that makes sense.

I mean, they just absorb everything.

And therefore, I mean, they're going to be absorbing family dynamics, of course, during the holidays.

(...)

Yeah, I immediately went to

impeccable with your word.

You know, when you're around a bunch of people that you really don't know,

just don't see them often.(...) And you're reaching for small talk, and you're reaching for any kind of common ground.

It can be

to I mean, politics, I actually immediately went to politics.

topics that people have some sort of emotional grounding in,

and want to use as a connection point.

how can you make sure that the conversation is

and good and the other person feels heard, but also you're

adding goodness to that conversation.(...) When there's topics are so tricky right now.

Yeah, is there a graceful way?

Like, I'm looking for a phrase just like have in my back pocket if politics do come up,

because I think there's a time and place to discuss that. And I really, I'm pretty positive this Thanksgiving celebration for grandma when we never see these people is not the time or the place to discuss those things.

(...)

I'm just pretty confident in that for myself. So like, what do I say? Like, I'm so happy to see you don't want to talk about politics. That's kind of sending a dumb.

Why

you say it? I think you could just say, Yeah, I actually don't care to talk about this.

Okay.(...) Does that not feel I mean, you can you can say, you know what, I've spent so much energy on this already. Yeah, I'd really just like to talk about pumpkin pie right now.

Yeah, pumpkin pie. All right.

I mean, in such a line. Oh, seeing that I'm not being impeccable with my word. I'm being sassy. So you know,

failed to work on that. I have like 10 hours in the car to come up with my

(...) Your graceful pivot.

(...)

Maybe this is a homework assignment for us. Maybe we get to come up with several graceful pivots that we can then share with our listeners. Honestly, a great idea.

We'll see. We'll keep you posted. Stay posted for graceful pivots from yours truly.

Queen of grace. Yeah, Kelly, this is this on you.

(...)

This is all you,

anything more to say on impeccable words?

Yeah, I think coming from a place of appreciation and love is where I'm going to really try and be in these conversations.

(...)

Use the power of your word in the direction of truth and love.

And you know what, for Thanksgiving, maybe we cancel the truth.

For holding different, yeah, it's like it's not our job to put our truth on somebody else.

No, especially when we just really don't see these people

To make anything else worth. Yeah.

Yeah, we can be authentic, but

on the love.

it.

(...)

Don't take anything personally.

Yeah, this is a hard one.

For me, that's way harder than

being impeccable with word. I think actually.

Oh, I think it's the opposite for me. I can see that. I got a big mouth.

(...)

Okay, so don't take anything personally. Nothing others do is because of you. What others say and do is a projection of their own reality, their own dream. When you are immune to the opinions and actions of others, you won't be the victim of needless suffering.

I love that. Needless suffering, how much suffering do we all endure?

I want to know what percentage of it is needless that we self inflict. I want to know. I want to know.(...) Quantify, like things we will never quantify, things I will never know.

I think that's huge.

Oh, it definitely is for me.

And even just assuming that people meant something, just

if somebody makes a different choice, I can take that personally. Even if someone's making a different parenting choice, I can take that personally,

is so unproductive and

needless. Yeah. Needless suffering.

What do you mean? If someone's making a different choice that you observe or if they

to you and challenge your choice?

Honestly, even if we're in a group and

making a different choice

close proximity,

they give it something that I've just handled very differently. I can feel like they're doing it

illustrate the other way of doing it. I can take that personally.

What? I know.

That's what I'm saying.

Yeah.

You think that they're like, you think that they're like,

see, this is the way to do it. This is the way to handle conflict with your two year old at the playground.

Yeah.

(...)

If it was someone I knew, not if it was a stranger,

(...)

but if it was like a person that I respected.

Whoa. Yeah.

Either that, or I could just be like, oh shit, that was the way to do it.

Which actually I prefer that. That's fine.

Well, that's a learning moment for yourself and then you take it, hopefully absorb it, move on.

Actually, I guess if it's someone that I really respect and it's a better way of doing it, then I'm like, oh yeah, that's better.

I'm thinking about don't take anything personally,

think it's all about perspective for where the other person is at

how most of the time it's really not about you. Oh, yeah. Just as almost never about you.

Yeah, no. Yeah. So I think. Because if someone really wants to say something to you and tries to correct you, which I do to other people,

coming from a place of like, we want to be right.

Which is ridiculous.

(...)

So an example for me,

something I'm going to just try and think about is that

competing or other times just very different realities of all of our family members' lives, different religions,(...) different political beliefs, different

needs, their family life looks different from each other's and ours.

How does that paint

they're coming from? Why do those realities,

are they influencing where they're at in that moment? Yeah. And why they're saying this, why they're doing this.

I believe we call that contextualizing. Good job. So contextualizing the person when something rubs you the wrong way, painting a picture of their context for yourself.

This is where

really had a lot of value from

using the most generous interpretation.

(...)

Yeah, that's been so helpful for me in any interaction with any age level, like my students, my in-laws, my boss, my husband, my children, my sisters.(...) I don't know. I feel like sisters are sort of a diff right now.

We don't receive your generosity. I knew I'd been feeling

Wait, you know, you can't say that anymore. Gypped. Yeah. Why? I've got reamed multiple times. Because it's gypsies.

No, it goes back to that.

Yeah. Oh,(...) I know. I'll cut it out.

No, leave it in, man. I have no idea.

I guess I didn't either. And I've had multiple people be like,

what?(...) Interesting. Funny. Huh?(...) How did we both miss that memo?

I don't know. Anyways, thanks for that.

(...)

Yep.

(...)

Yeah. So like, just always assuming this really goes to the next point. I feel like we skipped over.

But I think we did it personally.

Okay, great. Do we need to wax poetic any longer? I'm tired of my own voice. We still have two more points to go through.

Okay, great. So the next point is don't assume something. Yeah, don't make assumptions. So

courage to ask questions and to express what you really want.(...) I need to work on that. Communicate with others as clearly as you can to avoid misunderstandings, sadness and drama. With just this one agreement, you can completely transform your life.

(...) So what's interesting about that, if I just read

point, don't make assumptions. I'm like, cool, great. What a good reminder. We can all do that. Well, it's hard, but we can all attempt to do that.

But then when you go into bring courage into it, don't make assumptions and use courage to challenge them.

Great. Is it am I misreading that?

It involves some curiosity, encourage into

your own assumption about the person, therefore, like giving yourself more information on why you assumed that and why you might be wrong.

Yeah, curiosity and courage is what I'm hearing.

Okay, so you're really good at this in conversation.

When you're having some conflict in a conversation, which is just bound to happen,

really good at saying like, tell me more, or explain what you mean. And I just want to get better at that because that right away helps that other person feel more comfortable. Although I've had some people that say that, and I know that they just like know it's the right thing to say, you know, you have to actually say it with curiosity. Otherwise, just just bullshit. You know, oh, tell me more. Can you explain that? You know, it can be like really annoying. But if you're actually saying that from a point of curiosity,

just need to get better at that because it really does help clear up misunderstandings or even just prevent them.

I've worked really hard at, I used to go into arguments.

And I think that this is the difference between the two like what you're what you're talking about right now. I used to go into arguments and I would just make a list. Like I would just absorb all of the things that somebody else was saying, and I would receive it and categorize it and put them in different columns in my brain. Put your lawyer pants on. I'm gonna circle back to this point. I'm gonna connect this to this and this is wrong. And let me tell you why.

And so tell me more can be

of somebody's arsenal to build a case against you.

or it can leave room for you to actually like take a deep breath and receive the information.

Sure. I'm just saying it's the are you asking that from a place of generosity of spirit where you're using that information to(...) contextualize that person

why they're saying that?(...) Or are you using that to push your assumption on that person? Are you using that to compile a list of

for you to win with?

I think you're right that we can absolutely sense the difference in conversation, tone of voice, body language.

Yeah, those are so linked. They're so linked. Yeah, I really think

almost like taking things personally, personally just falls under making assumptions for me

of the time.

think,

yeah, back to that most generous interpretation,

with people you don't see very often. That's just

the better way to

Even if you might not have time to get into it,

or you might not want to spend that energy that time together getting into it.

Right.(...) Like Thanksgiving will not be the place to ask those questions, those deeper questions to give yourself context for the person is saying what they're saying.

So you could just hold your tongue and be mad about it.

You know, like that's an option that's better than

something you shouldn't say. But if you can

that into

generous interpretation, not making assumptions, like you're going to be more at peace. Like I will feel more relaxed. I will have happy feels leaving that interaction.

just better for literally everybody.

(...)

And for our kids to see us interacting with other people.

Oh, yeah. I mean,

assuming the best approaching things with the generosity of spirit,

we are not doing that as a nation right now. Yeah. We're not seeing that on TV. We're not seeing that in these tiny social media

and these irresponsible clickbait titles from

newsrooms. I mean,

think one of our bigger failings right now as a nation. So

in order to all understand each other better, why not start Thanksgiving?

(...)

Can be everyone's little, I don't know, experiment, little, some practice for our life at life.

(...) Yeah. Yep. Because I think we are going to have to

some habits

make this world a better place.

Yeah, I'm going to go back to

saying a phrase that I didn't realize had origins that were harmful.

Like when I was saying, Oh, yeah, I feel gypped. And I was just joking. And I had no idea. I never thought about it. And you brought it up. And you're immediately like, well, let's take it out.

Because that's what we do in 2024.

(...)

I feel pretty strongly about asking our listeners to give me the benefit of the doubt and asking them to say, well, I didn't know there are plenty of people who don't know we're not having conversations right now. When topics come up that are upsetting to other people.

will cancel someone before we are generous

the ignorance that they held.

And literally everybody says things they are not supposed to say or that they shouldn't say or that they just don't understand the mean everybody does

big sis. Wow. That was big.

(...)

Starting small people.

(...)

Oh,(...) well, okay. So maybe this last one.

I'm curious to see. I feel like these are such simple agreements. And then you read his little paragraph. And I'm like, wow, yeah, I could spend five lifetimes trying that one. Yeah, the simplest way

agreement,(...) always do your best.(...) Okay, now come in and wreck what I just said by, you know, okay, the subtext.

(...) Your best is going to change from moment to moment, it will be different when you are healthy as opposed to sick under any circumstance, simply do your best and you will avoid self judgment, self abuse and regret.

Wow.(...) I think this one's really nice for moms going into the holidays. And

actually don't think that paragraph like wrecked what you know, you know, thought it was more of like affirming. Yes, okay. Yes. Yeah, because we're gonna be sleep deprived. Like that's just something I'm telling myself going into it. Like, I want to be joyful about this. And so I need to know ahead of time, I will be sleep deprived.

My kids won't be their best.

more gracefully to account for that.

You know, so there's so many variables that I just can't control.

I can either worry about them, or I can just do my best

say, I'm really tired, I need to go lay down for a little bit or

need another glass of champagne right now.

(...)

You know, or I walk and that's okay, too.

And just showing up is our but like, you know, that's all grandma really wants. She wants us there. Like,

yeah, she won't care for our kids are melting down the entire time.

Well, in something else you touched upon, like you just mentioned a lot of self care, like here are the things I know I might need in these moments. And I think that's a like you just mentioned a lot of self care. Like here are the things I know I might need in these moments to help me show up better. And I just want to bring that back to him.

Outlining it will be different when you're healthy versus when you're sick. Yeah. So different when you're in a space of peace and comfort and joy versus stress and not a good mental health headspace was so funny.

I just feel like I went right to a healthy is non mothers or mothers with grown children. Really?(...) And sick.

(...)

I mean, I never I never have a full night of sleep right now. I mean, I haven't had a good night of sleep in three and a half years more because when I was pregnant, I didn't sleep. Yeah, no. I mean, like, truly, my body is not in peak performance. I love it. It's fine.

But I can't show up the same way that I will be able to in 10 years.

Or that I could before having children. But also, I think I'm a lot more I'm a lot of growing to do still.

there's trade off. Like I do feel like I am more peaceful. I have more wisdom than I did before kids. So I don't mean sick in a bad way. I think I just went right to the physical and like physically.

No, I'm not gonna be my best. You meant sick in a good way. No, I hear you.

(...)

What?

(...) I'm just a little sick.

(...)

I want to handle that.

Tell me, could you tell me more about that? Kelly? No, I can't. I actually

I think I'm going to take a(...) what to say to say five to 10 business days to 10 business days to process that myself.

You go I'm processing right now. I'm taking my five to 10.

(...)

I don't know. I hope you revisit that that you feel like you can't be healthy.

I don't think I meant it in a negative way. Like, I just really think there's suffering that comes with motherhood and it's actually good.

I actually think that's what I meant like

I'm just not comfortable.

You are so focused on physical health.(...) Like you're very cautious about nutrition,(...)

whole foods, doing the right thing for your body.

Your prenatals right now smell like the worst form of rancid death I've experienced in my whole life. Like, you would have to pay me to take those and instead you are paying someone else to send that

money to you. Like, there's a most expensive vitamins I've ever bought in my life.(...) So anyways, you are also just to illustrate how bad they are.

It what our husbands were playing cribbage,

And whoever lost had to chew one of my vitamins.

And I heard some retching on the basement.

Yeah. Yeah, we were in bags, but yes.

So my point is you, it's a high priority to take care of yourself physically. And before you were pregnant, you were always running, you were always working out, you were very much trying to achieve peak physical condition.(...) Yeah. So

is just one piece of your whole makeup. Yeah, physical piece.(...) Just one. It's not my whole identity.

(...)

No.

(...)

Yeah.

I suppose like I'm healthier in other ways. Yeah.

For sure. And honestly, I do think I'm healthier physically

Like I'm working out in a much healthier way than I ever was before.(...) Just balanced much more balanced way.

I'm still going to be sleep deprived.

For the rest of your life until we, not for the rest of your life. Yeah, I was going to say what?

(...)

For the rest of the foreseeable near future.

You will be sleep deprived, which let's just clarify does not make you sick.

I just, I don't know. I feel like until you experience the sleep deprivation of having children, you just don't understand how much it affects everything. No. You learn to work through it, but I'm going to double down on that one. Like it's so much harder than you ever think it's going to be. Here's what deprived.

Here's where I'm at. All of those studies coming out and like saying that you need to prioritize your health and your or your sleep and your babies.(...) I never read them because I'm like kindly fish off.

(...)

I

have time for this because

you're absorbing new information or new studies, you do need to figure out

where that fits in the hole.(...) And for me,

(...)

mothers have been sleep deprived for as long as we've been a species. I'm pretty sure we're not, that's not going anywhere. We're not going to change that. We can optimize it. We can try and be better, but stressing myself out over the fact that I'm, you know,

filing off five to 10 years of my life every month is not helpful.

(...)

And what they don't account for in these studies is the richness that comes in other areas of your life.

Yeah.

So

just one piece of the hole. Yeah, that's true. That's a good reminder. Yep.

Sure is.

Freaking scientists.

Boy, you don't need them.

(...)

That's a joke.

(...)

It sure is.

Oh, so always do our best. Always do our best.

that one might as that one seems so much easier than the other three.

Well, we don't always do it. I think it's like if you put all put the first three together, you kind of you kind of end with that one.

okay,(...) I feel like I actually am always trying to do my best, like literally in every aspect of my life.(...) And I can't achieve that. But I do think I almost start with that one.

And then I try to avoid the other ones sometimes,

(...)

which is upside down. But I think I was going to say I do like that opposite.

No, that makes a lot of sense. Why does that make sense to you?(...) Well, because I try to steamroll and just like get to the product, like get to the end product, like meet the goal.(...) And so if I know like, you know, the scientists, because I actually do listen, say that this is the best way to do this thing. This is the way I have to do it. And I just like go straight there. Like efficiency is just been how I live my life, especially in motherhood,(...) which is not my strongest character trait. But it also does get a lot of shit done.

(...)

I always just like

Not always, but frequently, I think I just try to skip the other steps. And I really do feel like I'm always trying to do my best and everything that I'm doing. Like I don't slop off like ever.

I do know that about you.

But it's not it's not achieving. Like I can't say that it's, you know,

it's not an easy way to live.

But no, so much pressure on yourself. And then also, if you're always striving to be your best, how are you defining that? Because there is no one size fits all for every situation. Oh, no, not at all. So that's just an interesting pursuit to me. I can guarantee I do not try my best often.

That's so funny. There will be points in my day where I'm like, you know what?

I'm at like 60% of my battery right now. This thing I care less about.

I know I'm not gonna show up well. And you know what, I really couldn't care less. Yeah, because I need to save whatever energy I have for pursuing this other thing with excellence. And it really doesn't bother me. Sounds like a good life, man.

Well, I mean, I have a lot of failings. And I will, of course, make mistakes and think back on them and have a lot of regret, like anyone. But it's just fascinating to like, your life sounds exhausting. If you're trying to do your best at everything. Yeah, oh, it is.

then I'm always like evaluating what I didn't do my best on and how I could do my best on it next time.

Like all the time.

I mean, I do that all the time for

(...)

Yeah, okay. Well, I just like good flavor. So I always want it better.

And I just would love to know what's nature and what's nurture because it's so fascinating. We can have such a different approach to life. Yeah, really just be raised by the same parents. Yeah.(...) And I can't like I'm not saying mine is right at all. Like I think you and I work because we balance each other.

Mm hmm.

But it's still really interesting. Yeah.

(...)

Even though we sound the same and look similar.

(...)

Very different.

Interesting. Oh, good chat. Yeah. Well, I'm feeling really good about Thanksgiving feeling good about doing my best,

(...) trying my best. Also not take anything personally.

And so that's the I'm hearing that that's going to do my best. I'm not taking anything.

So I'll be checking in with you periodically to see how that's

going with a glass of champagne because I start to keep things first less personally than

(...) maybe we'll send you and Kevin off on some walks. Oh, yes. Keep your keep your kiddos.

And also I should note, we are, I have only the highest expectations for our families behavior.

it's we're really this was a great conversation for me because now I feel like I can

a game plan to optimize

limited time with these people who are part of our family that we just don't see that often. No, I'm excited about it.

Absolutely. And it doesn't matter. I mean, everybody could walk in with the best intention. It's still going to be hard. Like, yeah, you haven't been building these relationships for a long time. And then you're supposed to like be in close proximity for an extended period of time. I mean, regardless of who that is, that's going to be hard.

I'm I'm really excited to see everyone. And I'm excited to celebrate grandma and just catch up.

And

excited to go into the game plan to be

(...)

my gosh. Dead. Oh, okay. Should we give some updates on the pod?

Oh, yeah. What are what are your updates?

Well, I'm still not over my mug. It's really cute. Oh, we're not selling them. So sorry. They're just stars. Yeah, exclusive. As of now.(...) A newsletter.

Can you go to the full update?

(...) Yes, we have weekly sendouts.

we would love for you to sign up. We are trying to build community here because that will just

the moms in our circle and the mom adjacent women. And

really excited to have deeper conversations with the people in our community and bring those different perspectives to you. So you can really help us by signing up for our newsletter. And it's really short and sweet. We'll just tell you a little blurb about what we're talking about that week. So you can tune into the episode. We'll let you know when a new episode drops.

And then we'll include three things that we're loving that week.

(...)

Yes.

(...)

Yep.

So we will link that that newsletter sign up in our socials. You can find it on our website.

(...)

Yeah, also our show notes.

Also in that newsletter, I just feel like I need to tell the world about the Calm Christmas Podcast because we're talking about the holidays.(...) And she just it's this podcast by Beth Kempton. And it's just this beautiful little reflective, feel good moment.

Just prepping you for like what the holidays are all about. And it's just really beautiful. So that's in the newsletter.

That was in last week's newsletter. So for those of you that's

true, if you're signing up now, okay, maybe I'll just link the

Calm Christmas Podcast. You're just the evangelist.

(...)

I am I just really feel like it. Yeah.

Makes sense. What else?

Oh, our reviews are really, really important for just the algorithms of the web

ratings. So whatever you whatever platform you listen to, if you can give us a rating or a review, that's really, really helpful. It's so just getting the word out. Yeah. And we are just trying to connect with as many women as we can

If you have anything that

really think would be valuable to talk about, throw it our way because we love to talk about it.

We do. We're both verbal. We love to talk about it.

(...)

Oh,(...) well,

(...)

go to Grandma's. See you at Grandma's. Maybe we should get walkie talkies for the car.(...) Are you kidding me? Charlie would be so into this.

Like not self Oh, oh, Kyle has walkie talkies.

Oh, we're doing it. Okay. Yeah. Okay. This is fun. Yeah. Love it. Incredible. We'll give a little

update of how that goes.(...) Incredible. Okay. I love you. Love you. Bye.