Episode 14: Hot Takes, Truths & Minivans: What's In & What's Out for 2025

Join us as we discuss our respective laundry lists of what is 'in' for us in 2025, and what will most assuredly be 'out'. Who's banning phones in the bedroom? Get Cal's hot take on The Minivan. Hear about who's throwing out Pinterest-worthy decor out and learning how to lean into the the joy of the mess. How about the ever-evolving carousel of balancing childcare and mom guilt? We’re sharing what’s sparking joy—and what’s getting the boot. Tune in for laughs, insights, and maybe a few surprises as we explore what’s shaping our lives (and sanity) in the new year.

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

I wish I had.

(...)

Oh, nice color. Thank you, is that nice? Yeah, it like really blends in with

your sweater. Yeah, I didn't know any other makeup on. Maybe that's my in, lipstick.

(...)

Oh.

(...)

Kind of a game changer.

I mean, listen, really ties in the whole sweater, which was stunning to begin with. Yeah, would you like a hole for anybody on YouTube?

Oh my gosh. Yeah, yeah. My friend Rachel, yes, hand knit, wool.

(...)

Gorgeous. It's incredible. Yup.

(...) Happy New Year. Happy New Year. 2025.

(...)

I know, so nice to see you.

You too. In this new year.

(...)

In this new year. How are you in this new year?

(...)

I'm good.(...) I think by the end of tomorrow, which is the 4th of January, I think I will be possibly fully detoxed from the holidays. Unclear, but like we're headed in that direction.

Totally. Yeah. I just realized it was Saturday and like this will be our first Saturday, just home as a family since the holidays, you know? And it was just such a nice, yeah, can't wait.

So great, love it. Yay.(...) So for our listeners today,(...) we have some ins and outs for 2025 that we're excited. Well, really, I just want to hear about what yours are.

(...)

But before that,

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a little reflection, as one does at the turn of the new year,

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we just talked really regularly about how grateful we are for all y'all. So thanks for tuning in. We had a blast launching this podcast in 2024.

(...)

Had some really phenomenal conversations. And honestly, I'm really proud of us because I think the hardest thing is starting the thing. And we did it and we're rolling.

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Yes, and we learned how to have a normal conversation in front of a microphone, which is really hard. Yeah. Honestly, so proud.

(...)

(Both Laughing)

Correct.

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And I'm so like on a personal level, grateful to have the conversations that we have recorded with our family members. I'm so grateful that they trusted us to put their voices and our conversations with them out there to the public. That's honestly huge. So the fact that we had- Thank you. Thank you so much that we had our aunties, our grandma, our baba, our mom,(...) willing to put their voices on the internet with us and trust us with their stories means the world.

So thank you all. And those of you that wrote in, and even when you said like, that was me, just to see that mirror of my experience and so many people,(...) it's just such a great,(...) just like, what's the word? I just feel the community. It's just so great to feel women around the country just going through it together.

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And in other countries.

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I think we've had like listeners from 23 or 24 countries.

(...) Wild.

So fun. I know. So fun. Turns out it's a similar experience for a lot of women. Who would have thought?(...) Who would have thought?(...) Oh my gosh. So 2025 on the Real Mom Hub. Yes, what can people expect from us? Well, we did reflect on the fact that we don't have enough time to have episodes that are over an hour. So they just won't be, because we don't have time, you don't have time.(...) We're gonna show things up a little. We'll be under an hour. Yeah.

Yep.

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And content wise,

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we're gonna be pulling in a lot of, some of our friends. So we're thrilled to introduce you to the women who were crucial in our formation growing up. And now we're gonna be pulling in our friends, some strangers,(...) everyday moms. We just wanna hear about their matrescence.

(...)

There are enough people talking about birth stories and they're powerful to hear every time. I love it, I'm a junkie. I can't listen. It's like too much for me, it's overload. Like I can't do it, but Callie's obsessed. So, you know, teach their own.(...) I wanna know about matrescence, this identity shift. This, when you become a mother. Yes, this invisible unseen transition that most of the world doesn't know to look for or acknowledge. So we're really, really excited to shed light on those stories.

(...) Because also that's what,(...) most people respond to our episodes kind of on those topics of like, we need to hear more of that. Yes. So it's eye opening for us, that that's a place that we really can explore that there's a need. So it's for us, it's for you, it's yeah, just something that's really important. Agreed, yeah.

So I'm excited. If you have a story or something that just shook you to the core that you didn't feel seen in those moments and you want to give that gift to other women,(...) write in. You can click the little text, text us line right above the description in each episode. You can email us,(...) we're at the realmomhub at gmail.com.

(...)

DM us on social, totally yeah. So if you want to share your story, we would love to have you.

TikTok. Do you even DM on TikTok?

I am so, like I do TikTok, I just started TikTok. I am not in love. Like I'm just not, I'm sorry. I'll check, I'll check. As you mentioned it, I'll check.

(...)

Also if you just like want to celebrate matresins because we're trying to do more of that too, because there's so much hard and it's important to talk about the ick and the hard and I think it's just valuable. But the reason we want to talk about it is because it's so powerful. Yes. It's such an incredible thing that we just want to help more women embrace it, I think.

(...) Oh I know. And help ourselves. Yes.

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100%.

(...)

So we'll have everyday moms on, talking about their experiences,(...) talking about the things that maybe are not showcased often. And we're also going to be hearing from some experts because you and I are curious.(...) We want to be educated. We have topics we want to learn more about. Chances are y'all will want to learn about those things as well. So we'll share them here as well. So that's our focus for 2025. 2020.

At the Real Mom Hub.(...) Yes.

(...)

All right, ready?

For our ins and outs. I'm so ready. Okay, and that note, why don't you go first? What's your first inner?

I don't even know if I did it right. Mine are like all coordinated. I had like a T chart. It was like, oh one.(...) Like a T chart, whatever. It was like, here's my in and then here's my related out. Are these supposed, okay, is that correct? Okay, let's see. Oh,

(...)

if this is your first time listening to this episode, please listen to other episodes where I have deeper thoughts than this, ready? In number one,

(...)

plenty of laundry baskets.

(...)

Because my out is, oh, I don't need to go waste $10 at Target and buy another laundry basket. I need to stay on top of my laundry.

(...)

No, I have like 10 laundry baskets now and my life is greatly improved. And I don't even mean that lightly. Like my laundry system isn't making me crazy anymore.

(...)

Why were you trying to limit your laundry? I'm like, I'm so confused. Like this is the difference between you and me. Like for me, I'm like, I have used for 10, like I'm gonna go get 10, like why were you trying to?

Oh, and I was like, I shouldn't need 10 laundry baskets. I should just be able to like do it every day. Two should be fine. Every day? Well, I did cloth diaper for a while and like I had to. So I know I've done it. Yeah, see, this is what I thought. And then when I gave myself permission to not do that, so much better.

(...)

Oh, hell yeah. Okay, more power to you.

(...)

So 10 laundry, so in 10 laundry baskets. Yes, like specifically 10.

I don't know, I didn't count, but a boatload, a fishload of laundry baskets. Out is. Staying on top in all quotes of laundry.

So like if we were to like follow this rabbit hole further, does this mean when your children run out of clothes, do we just get them more clothes?

(...) No, thankfully I've been better about that. I say, Kevin, we have to get laundry done. And he does laundry in a much more efficient way than I do, which is like not really the correct way to do it, but then we have clean clothes.

(...)

So maybe that's another in, letting go. So much to unpack.(...) We better just move along. I don't want to hold up a soda on laundry.

Okay, no, that's not what I was thinking we were gonna talk about after that statement, but sure. Let's keep moving, yeah, okay. I'm gonna start with an out.

(...)

I would just like to let you know that

(...)

I think 22 is out for me.

22? Like that you think you're 22? Yeah.

(...)

What do you think you are now at 24?

(...)

No, I think I'm like around 28. Like my age.

(...)

Well, let me put it that way. That's awkward, because in my head, you've been 35 since you've been 14.

So look at my sweater.

(...)

No, I just like, you know what? As I look around my life, I'm like, okay, you know,

(...)

in reality, you're solidly into your 30s now. You have a child, you own a house. Actually, it's a really awkward duplex situation. You own a duplex.

It's really nice. What are you insane? Okay, keep going. Well, I'm saying it's awkward because we don't run out of the lower unit. That's correct. You just have both units fully running.

(...) Yeah, yeah. Anyway, we live in the suburbs of the city. I don't know, I got enough gray in my hair now. Yeah, so I just have like a, thank you. Okay, you didn't need to just jump on that train.(...) I'm gonna go with, in 2025, I'm a solid 28 years old in my head.

In your head, yep. Yeah. I'm gonna clarify that's not your real age in case anyone was confused.

Thank you, thank you.

(...)

Okay, what are you in your head?

I have no idea. You never thought about this? Well, I just always, the closer I get to 30, I'm like, there's no way that I'm 30, because I just don't feel 30. Like I know I don't feel 30. Okay, so you do the same thing. Yeah, but I don't have an age that I like feel like. The first time I felt older than I, no, the first time the number seemed older than I felt was 26.

(...)

Okay, so maybe you're 25.

(...) Well, I take that back. 23 was when I couldn't bounce back after a late night in college. You know, I mean, I wasn't in college anymore, but 23, I remember being like, ooh, I'm getting a little old. Like this isn't the morning that I anticipated. Then 26 was like, ooh, really not 26. So yeah, maybe 24, 25.

(...)

It's just been so liberating for me. Like I never thought about the birthdays or the years. I was always like, yeah, I'm 22, it's fine, whatever. Like I really never, really never considered it. You know, doctors, forums, whatever. I was like, oh, this is just a number. I'm really just 22, you know?

So I just have to throw a big party when you finally feel like you're 30.

I cannot wait. That'd be great. So much for-- It was so fun.

(...)

All right.

The big 3-0.

Oh, ready for my next one? Yeah, so ready, let's go. I am so behind on this one. My in bone broth, my out. I just think like stupid broth. Like why would I not use bone broth?

(...)

Oh, you're talking, so to clarify, you're not talking about like drinking bone broth shots or like wellness.

No, I just mean like using bone broth instead of not. Instead of regular broth.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Do we talk ever?

(...)

Apparently not about that.(...) I think I put it in one of our newsletters recently. Maybe I should read those more often. You should read our newsletters. I, yeah, I, bone broth. I love it. It's great. I even started making it. Oh, do you roast your bones ahead of time or just like-- Sure don't. Just put them in a crock pot.

I mean, that's great. For 24 hours. No, that's really good. Love that for you. I've never made it because it just sounds like extraneous.

Well, you would want it to like taste really good.

I would, I love-- I mean, get this done. Like every time we're sick, yeah, make little bone broth shots. You squeeze a little bit of like fresh lemon juice. If you like have some thyme sprigs to kind of swirl in there with a little bit of salt. Make it look pretty. No, I take them out. I mean, it just honestly infuses it with thyme flavor. Like if it's a beef broth, oh, so good.

(...)

I would like it to not be savory when I'm sick. I'd like it to taste sweet.

(...)

So if you can find a healthy way to make it be sweet when I'm sick, I would prefer that.(...) Hello.

(...)

Sweet? Wouldn't you?

(...)

Like right now I'm doing the apple cider vinegar, hot water honey situation. I love that. Like a little sweet little tangy. So if you can find, if anybody has a recipe for bone broth tasting sweet and tangy, that's what I'd like. That just sounds like gross. Yeah, you can say it. It's fine.

(...)

Okay, moving on. Okay, your turn.

(...)

Okay, okay.

(...)

Okay, in country music.(...) Oh, yeah, nice. Tonight when we were making dinner, Kyle threw on Luke Combs who we love. Oh, like new country music.(...) Yeah,(...) totally.

(...)

And BBK was in his height chair and he started head banging. Cute. And then I was watching him and I was like, oh my God. Like I think for the last six plus months, we've mostly been listening to like classical music or like Appalachia or like bluegrass. Literally, we've just been like chill, whatever. That was a few months before Halloween, which was the cutoff for my sweet husband putting on Christmas music. He has to wait till November 1st, which believe it or not is actually really difficult for him. And then it's straight Christmas music for two months.

(...)

So he put on country today and I was like,

(...)

oh my God.

(...)

Like BBK had a brat summer, like don't get me wrong. We definitely, he loved to get down on some chapel room,

(...)

like H-O-T-T-O-G-O, like he was in it. He was a phenomenon,

(...)

I can't even say it. Where's the music?(...) We all know what I'm saying.

(...)

Anyways, I had so much energy with this country music. Yes.

(...)

And I need manufactured energy. I need energy in a jar right now because he's just like a little energizer bunny all the time. So country music, pop music,

(...)

it's in. Simple, feel good music in, chill, intellectual music out.

Which is extra funny because if you don't know, you and I both have music degrees. So like-- As does Kyle, and he still performs it, yeah. Yeah, so it makes it like a little less snooty, I feel like. No, I'm not trying to be snooty.

I know, I know. We listen to weird fish in our household.

(...)

I will say the first like dance party that we had that I was like, wow, we all just chose to do this. It wasn't like, oh, let's have a dance party. I played Kenny Chesney. And my kids-- Who's we? Like you and your, like the old rules? Like my kids and I. Like Kevin wasn't home yet. It was like that witching hour where you're trying to make dinner and it's just like Meltdown City. And Kenny Chesney and magical. That, I would not have seen Kenny coming for you.

(...)

It's because we were gonna maybe go to a concert because it was a free ticket, yeah. Yeah, see, that makes more sense. Yeah, yeah, but I was into it. Okay, and your kids were too. Sure, amazing.

(...)

Okay.

(...)

Okay, my out public school teaching.

(...)

Like I'm not doing it anymore. Wasn't that, oh, you did do that in 2024.

Yes, I did.

(...)

So my in is a flexible work schedule, like doing things that I actually enjoy. And I did enjoy aspects of public school, but there were a lot of things, a lot of fish that I had to get done that I did not enjoy.

Yeah, and I know you loved your kids and you loved all that, yep. So, but new sense of freedom. Oh, pretty. Yeah, pretty. The big one.

(...)

Loving it.

(...)

In for me, sourdough. It made me sourdough era, a little late to the game, like five years late, but here we are. And the thing is that I'm actually like kind of bad at it. Like I had, I would say like a three batch streak where I was like, wow, am I like kind of amazing? The only thing that's wrong with this is my lower crust is too crispy.(...) Yeah, mine's too chewy. Yeah, and then I started trying to mess with that and I like, I haven't gotten, so I kind of love that I'm not good at it.(...) Like that's actually fun for me. So I'm, I want to like actually become good at this thing. And I want to become good at like yeast breads too, or whatever you call them. I don't know.

(...)

And out is processed bread. Like frankly in Milwaukee, we're in a bread desert.

(...)

A bread desert.

(...)

Okay, you're rolling your eyes at me and I don't appreciate it. Yeah, because you

could still get Dave's Killer Bread or Ezekiel Bread, which like is nutritious and has some good flavor.

(...) I hear what you're saying, but like the little like artisan like actually looks good. I'm like, where are they? Where are they?

(...)

I know where they exist in my farmer's market, but I'm like, do they, does that exist in December right now? No, where do they go? It might be looked.(...) Yes, it turns into a Christmas market. There's no more farmer's market.

(...)

Oh. Yeah, so yes, they exist, but they're just hard for me to track down.

Yeah, I am feeling the same way with bread. Granted, I just rekindled a starter. Like it's been years since I did this, but I have a recipe that is so hands off and it went so well.

(...)

And I just made whole wheat pita with my friend out of her starter and it was so fast. Okay, some recipes.(...) Yeah, like if we just had pita all the time, you just like stuff stuff in there, like hummus and pita. I don't really like pita, I

have to tell you, but I did try, was it your friends that you, what did you, I think you brought some somewhere?

But I was, and that was like had been frozen, just not. It was still good. Like it's when it's fresh.

(...)

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(...)

Okay, mine is related to the having flexible work now, but I am just so grateful for slower mornings. And I did write slow-er mornings because they still feel a little rushed sometimes, but that is a big in for me because my out is gonna make you wanna throw up. Our normal was we had to leave the house with our children on work days before 7 a.m.

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

like now that I'm not doing that anymore, I'm like, why would anybody choose to do that?

(...) Horrible. Okay, here's the thing about you and Kevin,

(...)

you're both so graceful and kind all the time and honestly just delightful to be around and like fun, like I watch you two and I'm like, oh, they look like they're having so much fun. Wow, thanks. Like what is, no, literally.

(...)

And I just have held for years, like watched your lifestyle ever since you had Charlie actually and just been like, how are they nice to be around ever? Like how are they feeling the same way about my former self?(...) I'm feeling the same thing. It's been blowing my mind. So I'm just thrilled for you that you have a chance to choose different things.

(...) Speaking of Kevin boy,(...) Kevin. Hi.

(...)

Just got home from a bowling fundraiser.

(...)

I think they were fundraising for bowling. It was like fundraising for cancer or something, but it was at a bowling alley. You don't even know. I don't know where your husband just was. All right, I'm gonna say he's fine.

(...)

Well, thank you for that kind comment. I am, yeah, I'm really happy that it's no longer our life.

Yeah, that's phenomenal. That's a feminine nominon.(...) You're still trying.(...) Yep, we're done.

(...)

We're done.

(...)

It's your turn.

(...)

Okay, in for me is vinegar.

(...)

Kate, I hate the smell of vinegar. I have like to clean. Yeah, I have memories of mom using like vinegar water.

Oh, the worst was the coffee pot one when she'd run it through so that it was like hot burning vinegar.

(...)

I can't even, I think I blocked that one out. I don't even know what you're talking about.

It was like puke worthy. No, I'm talking about like for literally anything, I was like, I'm never having this in my life ever. Nope, not for me, not the vinegar. So what was the change? Well, ow, I'm like trying to eliminate toxins and I'm trying to eliminate plastics and like, you know,(...) reevaluating my relationship with polyester, which I think I'm wearing right now. Like I just...

(...) Do you not smell when you wear poly, like I literally don't have it because I will smell if I'm wearing polyester.

I don't actually think I'm wearing polyester. I don't know what this is.

Yeah, that would shock me.

It doesn't make me smell.(...) I do like nice textiles on my body. Let's be clear. You do. Yeah. Yeah. So anyways,

(...)

I don't know what to say. Are you making your own?(...) You know I'm making my own. I'm on a journey.(...) Well, there's like Aunt Franny's has some nice pre-made ones that don't smell so bad.

No, I know I could buy it. I'm just kind of like, I go honestly like with BBK, I go through so much cleaning solution all the time. And I want him to be able to like frankly ingest it and me not go into like a panic.

(...)

Not that he ever will ingest it, but I'm like,

(...)

I shouldn't be worried about him touching all of these surfaces all the time. If there's a solution on there that would send me into a panic attack. If you looked, you know like-- You probably shouldn't have

that in your house. Exactly.(...) Unless there's some norovirus in which case bring on the-- I have bleach. Yeah.

Yeah, also, you know, I love a good toilet bowl coiter. I think I will celebrate putting toxic chemicals in my toilet bowl for maybe the rest of my life. I don't know. That's the one place where I'm like, that deserves something punishing.

I currently have a non-toxic toilet bowl cleaner that boasts like eucalyptus and tea tree on the front and nothing else. And I'm like-- Yeah, I've done that before one time. And I said, no. Yeah, I was using it the other day and thought this is not right. He's wrong here.

(...)

So vinegar is in. That's funny. I still hate it, but I've been covering up the smell with like a ton of tea tree and lemon oil. Essential oil. Nice, nice. It's been better, it's been fine. Also, if you mix it with a little bit of like rubbing alcohol for whatever reason, that helps cut it for me. Because I don't mind the rubbing alcohol smell. No, no, that's fine. That's like disinfected. I feel good about that.

Yeah, I don't mind vinegar either, but unless it's running through a coffee pot, horrible.

(...)

Bad.(...) Mine is related,

(...)

more controlled mess. Like I'm okay with Charlie's art stuff, just like being all over, kind of to a point. Yeah, what do you mean by that? I'm still outside the door, he's probably like, oh.

(...)

Like our window seat is currently just like Charlie's art station.

(...)

Sure, for those who know, it's a very long, large window seat.

Yeah, and like we're not repainting it until the kids are old, yeah. Yeah, but it's like full of stuff.

(...)

Yeah, okay. So I'm getting better at just like leaving that, embracing that.

Nice, and is that his height too?

Like when he wants to grab it? Yeah, it's like pretty perfect, although it's also at Nora's height, so she's covered in orange marker right now, as she sleeps like in her sleep, because we couldn't get it off.

(...)

(Laughing)

So Charlie has permanent orange markers in his stuff?

No, he's somehow got a highlighter. I mean, it's like light. She just looks like she had too many carrots, but.

(...)

When you were talking about like cleaning so often with CBK, I was like, huh.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

You've always been a bit better at cleaning than I have.(...) Which is funny, given our personalities. You should see my kitchen.

(...)

I think it really inspires mental health for me in a way where your brain just operates in a much more organized state.

(...)

Like there's a reason that I need Google Sheets and grids and like that orders my brain for me, where yours like spits out charts automatically.

(...)

Yeah, truth.

(...)

Okay,(...) wait, what's out then for you? In for you was organized chaos.

Oh, like stupid aspirations to have like a Pinterest worthy house. Like I'm finally kind of over that.

(...)

Okay. Yeah, great. I actually think I am like the dog chewed a hole through my nice little carpet that I Facebooked and in your living room. Yeah, it was really weird. Like we don't know why she did it. She's so well behaved. Yeah, we have no idea why she did it. That's weird. And Kevin was like, look thinking I'd be just horrified. And I was like, okay,

(...)

yeah.

(...)

Granted, I don't like love the rug, but also that's another moment of growth. Cause I used to be like, I don't love this rug, really want to get a new rug. I'd like sit there looking at my house, seeing about all the things to change. And now I just have like better things to think about. I love your house.(...) I do too. And I still like decorating. I like making spaces, but that's the point. Like I know it feels good now. So I can just like pause and not make it perfect. And that's what I used to try to like obsess about.

(...)

Whoa.

(...)

Yeah. Cool. Great, love that for you. Thank you. Uh-huh.

(...)

But,

(...)

it was just funny.

(...)

We're just very different.

(...)

Which I love. That's not what I hear from others, but sure. I know. I do agree with you.

(...)

In for me,

(...)

long form content.(...) Oh. I want to make a concerted effort this year to actually consume long form content.

(...) Nice. Comedy, like just interviews. Like a freaking book.

(...)

Oh.(...) Like read a GD book.

(...)

You know?

(...)

Finish the book. Don't, because you think this is efficient, don't look up if you're interested in a topic or a particular expert, look up three different interviews with the same author. Read the freaking book.

Okay, this is so funny.(...) My next one literally is my in.(...) It's like reading books, it's fiction.

(...)

And my-- Oh, mine is literally just like reading anything. I noticed I have a deficit of attention right now. Like my attention just doesn't last. I need to make a concerted effort to focus. And I only have so much energy to focus my focus.

(...)

So much throughout the day. But I also am deeply concerned about

(...)

the way our world is shifting.

(...)

Like particularly the way that Americans consume news and I include myself in that and I wanna make it change. And so,

(...)

yeah, I would really like to do some deep dives. And I think I will be better off if an author,

(...)

first of all, if it's someone who I verified has worthy ideas to share and they're good at their craft and there's good reason for the publisher to publish their book. I'm not talking about someone who just happens to have a social media following. So the publisher says, oh, we know we're gonna get sales from this book. I'm talking about people who have what I deem excellent or challenging thoughts that will create growth in my life.

(...)

I wanna train myself again to chew off the whole thing. What about a fun book?

(...)

Oh, those I'm fine listening on Audible in my spare time if I want. Like that's something that I can do when I'm doing the dishes or folding the laundry. If it's not,(...) I'm not really worried about my attention span there if it's for entertainment.

(...)

Yeah.(...) So that I'm gonna keep on Audible but the tactile book long form, anyways, so that's my in and I just went on a long soapbox rant. Sorry everybody.

(...)

But what's out for me is phones.

(...)

So Kyle hung, this was about a month ago, he hung a basket on the doorknob of our bedroom.

(...)

Whoa, so this is one thing I love about Kyle. We talked about having no phones in our room. Yeah. And then it was like a passing conversation, I think of the car. When I'm on my way to bed that night, I saw the basket and his phone was in it. And I was like,

(...)

oh, fish, here we go.

Now I have to do it too.

(...)

So we put our phones in this basket before going into our room every night. And we get the weekends off, like we, Friday, Saturday nights, whatever, we can have our phones in there if we wanna do something.

That's a good idea. Cause we've done the no phones by the bed, like we'll just have them across the room.

Yeah, no, they're not allowed in the room.

(...)

Yeah,(...) I might bring that one up again.

(...)

It's been really nice. I think my sleep's been a lot better.

(...)

I, we need it for our connection.

(...)

Cause sometimes we'll both be there scrolling or reading. Even I read on my phone for the most part, cause it's one handed. Ever since nursing a baby, I do so much, I will read a novel on my phone, which I don't like, but then I don't wanna have a paper copy too and find where I am, whatever.

(...)

So yeah, just for us talking at night, it's just not great when we have our phones there. To debrief. And with two kids, it's hard to debrief by the time you get the house clean, kids put to bed, yeah. It's your time. It's your time.(...) So mine is reading fiction,(...) because I did read, like I will read the whole self-improvement book or like parenting book,

(...)

or do like a lot of podcasts on that, like health or wellness, you know, like that was just really my obsession is how can I optimize all of this?

(...)

And now I'm spending actually more time consuming fiction than, I'm still doing some of the other, but yeah, more fiction time, which is great.

(...)

I bet that's because you have two littles of different development.

(...)

Yes, I just have so much more confidence than I, I've just like done it once with Charlie. So now with Nora, it's not, even though she's so different, like when she does something, I'm like, oh, this is like a normal thing to happen. I was talking about your creativity.

(...)

Oh.

(...)

Like the way you need to respond to two very different personalities at different development points in your household.

(...)

Like my brain is just functioning differently? Yeah, I wonder. That's true, like I'm not obsessing about one human that I'm like trying to mold the way.

(...)

No.

(...)

I haven't reached that point yet.

(...)

You can unpack that. Maybe that's a future episode. It's interesting.

(...)

Okay, so what's out? So the out is like being obsessed with the self-improvement or the parenting. Okay, yep, yep, yep, yep. Yep. Here's a really quick one, ready? In water bottle with a straw,

(...)

out, dehydration. I have like five Nel jeans, I love them, they're covered in stickers, like they are a prized possession that I still use camping, but ever since mom gave me a water bottle with a straw.

(...)

Game changer for my hydration. I almost put my Stanley on here.

(...)

In the Stanley, it's staying in. Like we know that this was a thing in 2024, 2023, we know that. Is it going away in 25? The world may want to pose that question and I'm saying no, it is here to stay.

(...)

In the sauna, I mean mine was, I'm a Yeti or a Hydro flask, but like when it's so cold, just like the hyper insulated with a straw.

It's incredible.(...) Yeah.(...) Incredible. Yep, yep, yep.

(...)

Okay, in for me.

(...)

I'm gonna get back to this piece of myself, of my marriage, my relationship, long leisurely dinners. I think, you know, I'm not gonna try and schedule them, but like we used to eat dinner at eight or nine every night. Like every single night. It's so late, but okay.

(...)

That's not that late, I don't know. Like we didn't have to, we weren't school teachers, you know? Like we had normal jobs, we'd get home, we'd like hang out, do whatever we needed to do, maybe stay late, do an event, whatever, and get home and then, you know, eight or nine, we would eat. And Ciaran goes to bed at 7.30, like. Oh, so like we don't have to eat nice dinner. Yeah, we don't have to eat with him every time. We like to,

(...)

but like, you can say you don't, because eating with a kid sucks.

(...)

It's kind of fun, because when we eat with him, we actually like in our kitchen, we have these two little like foldable stools, and we honestly just like sit on the stools, like little sad people. So it's like camping a little bit. It is kind of like camping, and we're like feeding him. It's just kind of fun, it's like camaraderie, but not like a night. So anyways, in the long, slow leisurely dinner with Kyle,(...) where we're like facing each other, and when we eat dinner, we like, we never have phones, it's always been a thing, it's always conversation connection, so I want that back out.

(...)

Complicated dinners for company. You sure? Nope, I'm not sure. We heard it here, folks.

(...)

Well, okay, what actually just happened, so after on New Year's, we had, I think eight people total, like wasn't a ton, we hosted a little thing,

(...)

and we were coming off of an insane holiday season, like everyone had, you know, normal, and we were gonna do takeout, and then like we had been traveling with these friends, we were like, oh, we're gonna do a, we're gonna reprise, you know, a dinner, we're gonna do like a family Italian style dinner, whatever, and I was like sick, I'll make this, it was this vodka sauce that I, it used to take me 20 minutes to bake for Kyle and me, like on a weeknight, I was like, I've done this a gazillion times, I'm gonna make some Parmesan chicken, I'm gonna keep it really simple.

(...)

I was planning to eat at eight, once we put the babies down at 7.30,(...) and I swear to God, like it took me like three hours

(...)

of being in our like tiny kitchen, which is far removed from like the socializing area, it's just awkward.

(...)

It was the office episode, where they make the also bucco,

(...)

and I'm talking about Jan's like, oh, it only takes, you know, like three more hours, and then she plays that weird soundtrack, and it's like so awkward, and everyone hates it. I haven't had a host fail like that since 2019, and it happened to me in New Year's Eve, and it was-- Oh no. It was fine, because everyone was friends, and they were all hanging out, and honestly, if I'm being real, it was really nice to have some alone time in my kitchen cooking, but I was still, there was still this element of like,

(...)

you know,

(...)

did you have to do this stuff like, like for whatever reason, it took the noodles so long to boil,(...) and it took, my onions wouldn't brown, because I was making it for like, you know, 10 people instead of two, and then my, it just--

(...)

So I feel like you need a different solution, because what you're describing isn't necessarily a complicated dinner, or like it didn't need to be--

Yeah, way to just like, completely poke holes in my logic.

(...)

I just like don't want you to be crushed, when you're like,

you know, well, I'm not crushed, I just, I want to rearrange the way I entertain, because the past three times we've had people over, I've done that, it's been a meal where everything was kind of prepped and done ahead of time, and I was just so much more relaxed and present, it's honestly working the food culture that we're used to into a new entertaining space.

(...)

Or like, can you just make the cooking part of the hangout? I mean, you don't have to be cringed in your kitchen.

No, I cannot, that's the whole point, is I used to be able to do that in our old kitchen, and our new kitchen is so far removed with no island, that I cannot, that's the whole point, I can't-- There's like not enough room, if bodies are leaning. And my style is, oh, you want to be friends? Here's a knife, chop this for me, you know, whatever, we'll have a conversation with busy hands.

(...)

And that's not a thing anymore. I think we're gonna have to work on that one.

(...)

What do you mean?(...) I think we're gonna have to perfect your in on that one,(...) or your out.

(...)

You don't like my out, you hate my out, she hates my out.

Everyone, she hates my out. No, I just, I'm trying to be realistic and like really help you set up for success.

And this is why I call her for things, and sometimes why I don't, you know?

(...) The dinners that I've had you make, like Vodka Sauce is like making, it's like me making Annie's Mac and Cheese.

Yeah,

(...)

usually, unless it's New Year's Eve and I've always pressed some martini and a white Russian. Okay, okay, I mean there's that. And the babies went that down late, and I didn't, you know, whatever. Okay.

(...)

Can we edit this out? I know, we're getting long.

Ah, okay.

(...) Wait, no, you go and then I have one. Okay, ready, we in?

Yeah.

(...)

The minivan.

(...) I knew it, I've been waiting for this one. I've been waiting, everybody.

(...)

I swore I would never drive a minivan. Never, ever.

Okay, and I need to interject for all my friends listening and all the strangers too, because maybe more strangers listen than my, yep. I think that's true. I think it is too. So,

(...)

if you ever see me get a minivan, like please provide a wellness check.

Like I don't, I don't know, like check in on me. I was sure, I was sure I wouldn't. And Kevin has always wanted one.(...) And after enough road trips to Ohio specifically,

(...)

with our- With our,

that's where our grandparents and our, some of our aunts and uncles and cousins live.

Yep, so like picture either Subaru Outback or Subaru Legacy, and like Kevin always wanted the Legacy because he likes driving it. So, over the, okay.(...) Well, it's newer, like it is whatever, sure. But the rage induced when I would have to crawl over like the center console to get into the back,(...) to like either lean over a nurse, a child, because I didn't want to take them out of the car seat, like butter, I die in a car crash than them. So, I would like, I would like lean over the car seat with my boob and nurse on a long car ride.(...) Like the amount of curse words coming out of my mouth.

They don't sound like fish, right? Yes, fish, fish, fish, fish you, fish it.

I'm fishing down with this. And then trying to get my birthing hips in between two car seats and like getting cut by the plastic. Like I'm so tense. Okay, the minivan. I'm tense. Just listening.

(...)

We just did it what, two weeks ago, a week ago?

To mom and dad's, which is three hours away from you.

(...)

I mean like, like, like actually life changing sort of like the laundry baskets.

(...)

Like when we have to go to an errand, I'm like kind of excited still. Charlie can open and close his own door.(...) Oh, like with the button. Yes, I can do grocery pickup and just hit the button. I mean, granted it's another layer that our outback, currently the back edge doesn't stay open by itself. So you have to like one hand hold it, or I hold it up with my head while I'm like loading.

(...)

But, yep, minivan in rage, auto induced rage out.

(...)

Okay.

(...)

Okay. It was a journey. Do we want to link like self respect or like your old self? Like with the,(...) you know? I'm over it.

(...)

I mean, you've been gunning for this minivan, I think like for like a month now.

Yeah.(...) Well, ever since our Thanksgiving road trip in fact,

(...)

funny, most

two things are linked.

(...)

All right, you go. It's uncomfortable.

(...)

So my, my in is actually getting a babysitter for that.

(...)

I'm just saying not even gonna say anything. That's not even true. You know, I'm gonna say things, but you finish, then I'll go.

No, that was my in. What would you like to say?

(...)

How many times does a person have to tell their sister, it'd be really great for you to have a babysitter. Here's a number.

(...)

I mean, listen, Sadie, our sister lives in this city. She lives 10 minutes away.

(...)

Kyle's mom lives in this city,(...) 20 minutes away.

(...)

It's not like we haven't left our child.

(...)

I mean, we haven't left it. You haven't a lot, no, you hardly have. Also, it is a different experience with a stranger. And like, I've never had to do it with an actual stranger. Like it was either my student or Kevin's student. So I totally actually get that. Like I've never, I

think like if I knew the person that I was calling, it would be really different.

Yeah, like one of your friends. Yeah.

And then like we haven't ever been like, we need to find a babysitter. Like we would if we were in a different city because we have two people who are reliable. But like, for example, we had a wedding in October that I thought we would have childcare for and we just didn't. And that was just a bummer, frankly. Like it was fine, but it was a moment for me where I was like, Emily, you can't be an idiot. You've had this kid for a year. Don't be dumb. Like, you know there are certain things when you should just make sure that this is firmed up.

(...)

Yeah. And then, you know, there's another time like we were out with college roommates. It was totally fine that he was there. But it was another moment when it was like, you know what? Most of your friends don't have children. Like, yeah.(...) If you're gonna be part of that community, you also need to play by their rules often.

So get it together. Or you want to. I'm sure they'd be fine either way, but you want to.

Well, but our friends come to our house all the time. We're so lucky and they're so kind and gracious and head out our way often. Cause he goes down at 7.30. So it's like, but it needs to be a reciprocal relationship. Like we can't just say, hey, always come here.

Yep. So, and it's really hard. And like, it's still hard for me. And I remember hearing, I think Dr. Becky was like, you're just gonna feel guilt and that's okay. And that's normal. And you might have like some lingering guilt your entire time out. And that's also okay. I'm like healthy. Especially when you leave your child crying when you walk out the house.

(...)

I don't think that guilt is it for me.

(...)

Just cause I think it's healthy. Like I know it's healthy. So it's not like I should be doing something different. Like this, I feel badly for doing this. So what is it? I just feel bad. I'm like, what are they doing? How are they? And I'm in the phase still where I'm like, would I be happier if I was with them?

(...)

Yeah, but I think that's kind of the point. Like you have to rip off the band-aid cause you will feel like that.

(...)

I mean, I was out the other night

(...)

and Kyle was home with him. Like it wasn't even a sitter. Like I was away from them and I was like, this is nice.(...) I think this was really nice for me for like an hour.

Yeah.

But I think I might be having more fun(...) on my couch right now. You know? I mean, good life.

(...)

I don't know. Anyways, so getting a babysitter is gonna be in for me in 2025.

(...)

And out is not budgeting for childcare,

(...)

which actually we have budgeted for childcare. We've had nannies before, like whatever.

(...)

You can do it. You got this. Thank you.

(...) Yeah.

(...)

I already prepped your babysitter.

(...)

Oh yeah.

Can you send me your phone number for the fifth time please? Thank you.

Oh yeah. You might have to text me.

(...)

This could be my last one. I have some more, but like they're not really important. Ready?(...) Yeah. This is gonna be a duh moment for you.

(...)

Can't wait.

(...)

My in,

(...)

just take the poopy diaper out of the house immediately.

(...)

That's not a duh for me.

(...)

I just discovered in the last like month that the lingering smell of fish in our house is in fact, is poop. It's just poopy diapers.(...) And ever since literally when she poops, I throw it down the stairs. It's like I have to trip over it to get out.(...) And sometimes I just throw the poopy diaper on the back porch and it might be there for a day because it's winter and it's just like a frozen poopy diaper on the back porch. How ratchet is that? However, my house doesn't smell like poop.

(...)

I don't think I've ever smelled poop in your house. You don't think you do, but there's like some underlying smell.(...) Okay.(...) Yep, poopy diapers out right away.

(...)

Can I put some like sibling fish on this episode? We were leaving mom and dads and I was like, I was asking dad which bin was their trash because I had gone out into the garage to like throw a bunch of diapers away, our diapers.

(...)

And I was like, the bin is totally empty. Like I can't tell, it's an empty bin. I want to confirm that this is the garbage bin. And he was like, yeah, I just took it to the dump. And then he was like,

(...)

can you please, it's just like way easier for me. Can you put all the diapers into one bag? Because I feel like whenever you kids leave the house, they're all in individual grocery bags. And then I have to take each one individually out because you just put them all in one bag. And I for sure was just like, yeah, dad, actually that's a hundred percent the rules every time. Because when Kyle and I come to visit, we take one plastic bag because we're environmentally conscious and we just keep putting new diapers into it. But I did just trip over five individually wrapped diapers in the garage, but those are all the old rules.

(Laughing)

(...) Well, and it's specifically Callie because Kevin probably left the poopy diaper somewhere in the house.

He didn't this trip. He always does every single other trip. He does. No, they're probably not poopy. I'm sure he takes the poop. No, he does. I pick them up sometimes.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

Also, we were leaving mom and dads after Christmas this time and I was like, oh my God, Kyle, who's gonna tell Callie that Kevin left his underwear in the bathroom every time, again,

(...)

even though he said he didn't this time. I heard him. Did he actually? He goes, "M, those are your dads."

(...) Oh,

(...)

in the kid bathroom. In the kid bathroom. Because the sound eyes on the kid bathroom.

(...)

Oh, win for Kevin Rule. Yeah, I'm gonna go tell him. He'll be really proud. Should. I don't think he left anything.(...) No, we did pretty well. It's the minivan. I'm telling you. Actually, no. Wait,

(...)

my debit card is at their house.

Oh.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

I mean, that's not you.

(...)

(Laughing)

It is.

(...)

That's correct.

(...)

Oh my God.

Funny.

Okay, last in for me.

(...)

Honeydew list.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

They're new for us. I don't really want you to call it that though. I actually hate that. But yeah, can you just like check lists?

A to-do list? No, it's not communal. It's Kyle, please do this.(...) Like we'll do, like I divide it. I'm like, this is what we need to do. This is what I specifically, I need to do these things. Like actually, please don't do them because I want to do them. This is for you.

(...)

And he just really executes.

(...)

And he's getting, he's just, I just want to give him like a lot of kudos right now because I'm getting a lot of noise about men not picking up the mental load and men not understanding the mental load. And I do understand that in a lot of situations that is kind of ridiculous and really poor partnership. And I don't want to diminish that, but I do want to give a positive shout out to a man who's really trying to assume the mental load. So yes, I still make him lists. Like yes, that is the mental load. He has to ask me for the lists. However,

(...)

lists are very new for us in our marriage after having a kid.

(...)

And I'm watching him like clock these recurring themes on these lists and he's just doing them. Like more and more often I'm making the list and he's like, oh, I already did X, Y, and Z. Oh, amazing. And I'm just like, hell yeah. Like it's just a note for me. And I just want to put this out there for women who are really struggling with this.

(...)

If you don't have a willing partner or a gracious partner or a generous partner, I'm really sorry, that sucks. I don't know how to talk about that. But if you have a partner who really were not the expert on that one. Absolutely not. If you have a partner, like if you're struggling to hold all of the mental load and you're verbalizing that with your partner and you're both working on it together,(...) I just like give it a little time. And if you consistently put these things on his plate and ask him to notice and clock those things,(...) I think we as women, if we want change, it'd be nice to just assume that men are gonna take that mantle on. But also like, what if we give them the opportunity?

(...)

Okay, I'm only laughing because I skipped over this for myself. What? I literally had my in communicating with Kevin. Yes. And by that I mean like communicating my needs or what I need from him. Yeah. My out was assuming he knows.

(...)

Yes. I mean, it-- Also that, we can't expect to-- And everybody says that. Like everybody gives you that advice and you're like, I don't wanna follow it. At least I was. But quite honestly, writing a list or like just really saying, no, I need you to do this thing or like actually just is pretty straightforward.

(...)

It is. And I just really appreciate him taking the initiative to try and do the things before I ask him to do them. That's awesome. So I don't know what my out is, but that's in.

That's in. The out is that you called it a honeydew list. We're gonna make that the out.

Yeah, that's the out.

We're gonna give you a new-- What's like a better, what's a better name?

(...)

Well, mom always, what did she call, you might've been not homeschooled anymore. She created the acronym HIT for a while and it was, excuse me, I know. She's so intelligent, but it was habitat improvement time. Oh, no, no, no, no, I was here for this. So we all had our list. So we all had our list. So of course it was like just us literally wailing on each other thinking we were being really funny.

Yeah, no, no, no, no, no. So don't call it that. Habitat improvement is like, if you think your habitat is fine,(...) you're not gonna be motivated.(...) And we were like, what's wrong with our habitat? That's true. And I think that most men who are not automatically seeing these things and assuming that they need to be done, they're happy with their habitat or they would create change for themselves. True,(...) yeah,

(...)

truth.

(...)

TBD, listeners, if you have a better name for this list, this collaboration,

(...)

vision board.(...) Vision board.

(...)

Let us know, we'd love to know.

(...)

Speaking of Kyle, he's gonna be on.(...) We're gonna talk about Patrescents, which might be a made up word, we're not sure.

(...)

And then Kevin will be on, so that's coming up. And then yeah, just we're gonna be chatting with a lot of women, mostly women. Mostly women. What are you laughing at right now? I'm looking at the time trying to wrap this up.

(...)

You're doing great.(...) Thank you all for being with us, we love you so much. Callie, I love you so much. Love you. What a fun time. Happy 2025. Happy 2025.

(...)

Love it.

Okay.

(...)

Bye. Bye.