Episode 15: The One for the Fresh New Dad with Kyle Erickson

So, you’re a new dad? Congrats—you’ve joined the sleep-deprived, coffee-fueled, diaper-wielding club. In this episode, we’re chatting with Kyle - Emily’s husband and Bbk’s dad. We get his hot take on what fresh fatherhood feels like. We talk all about the birth process from the dad’s front-row seat (awkward cheering included), how to be the ultimate birth partner (both before, during & after the birth), and what really happens during the postpartum phase (spoiler: it’s not all baby cuddles). Relationship shifts? We talk about it. What feels vulnerable? We go there. We also chat about building a solid dad community, surviving the journey into fatherhood with some sanity intact, and hear about the deep joys that come with becoming “dad.” Ready to laugh, learn, and maybe cry a little? Let’s dive in.

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

Hi. Hi.

We are very excited for our lineup in 2025, but

Get jacked. Buckle up. Everyone get stoked. The theme is Mattressen.

Otherwise known as Mattressen.

Which is in case you're just tuning in the transition into motherhood. Yes. And all of the other things that we're doing is we're doing a really good job. Yes.

And all of it, all the things that encompasses.

So similar to adolescence, which we all understand that word. Mattressen is something that we don't hear often. And Mattressen is sort of the adolescence of becoming a mother.

There are a lot of parallels. Your values are totally shifting. Your body changes. Your hormones are swinging wildly.(...) You're reevaluating your community and your needs and your different identities, how you show up in the world. And so we're really excited to shine a light on that phase of this journey. Cause we are fresh mothers ourselves.

(...)

Let's get started on this matresence journey.

(...)

It's really important,

I think, to talk about matresence because

(...)

at least for me,

I've leaned so heavily on my husband, Kyle.

(...)

He's been an exceptional partner

I don't think it's fair or balanced or healthy to only talk about matresence. I think we're missing a huge part of the conversation if we're not also highlighting what's happening to our partners.

I know there are a lot of single mothers out there as well and I'm in awe. You are

superheroes. I don't know how you do what you do. I literally don't know. I really, right.

(...)

Hat is off to you.

For those of us who do have active, engaged partners,

let's include them in the conversation.

(...)

There are a lot of conversations going on about the mental load and who should be doing this and who should be doing that and we all got to hear each other and work together.(...) I'm really excited to get his fresh take on matresence.

Matresence. I feel like he pointed that or is that a term? I don't know. I guess someone already said it. Probably. Maybe we're saying it.

We could be. We could be. I think I'm going to learn a thing or two though. I'm excited.

(...)

Me too. He even had his own questions. We said here's an outline to both of our husbands because Kevin will be on soon.(...) Here's an outline. What are you thinking?

(...)

I loved how he was like boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. We have to talk about these things because it is not maybe as much of a physical journey for them. Sure. There's so much other change. I'm pumped.

Also remember when I was pregnant and remember when I was postpartum, would you want to take care of me?

No, dear lord. I mean, in your defense, you were basically like who's the purple girl in Willy Wonka and blows

(...)

Excuse me?

Like the girl that turned into a blueberry? Violet? Violet, you're turning violet?

(...) Explain yourself.

(...)

You just

kind of, you're like this little tiny person and you just sort of like ballooned.

(...)

I'm getting roasted. Can I hang up? Can I hang up on my own podcast? Are you kidding?

(...)

Do you hear this, Kyler?

(...)

No, you haven't sent him the link yet. Oh, shoot.

(...)

Let me do it again. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Yeah, sure, there you go. Oh, hey.

(...)

And then Emily said, "Hot hubs in the room." I did. I did say hi.

Because yeah, hot hubs in the room.

For those of you listening,

(...)

I have a matching three-piece suit on

a top hat, and there's like a little parrot on top of the top hat.

And that's what really gets Emily going.

(...)

Yeah.(...) All of it is false. Oh, what did you say to him earlier today? What? When you were going on your walk, what did she say that was so horrifying on the phone?

She addressed me as maybe like Karen in some capacity.

I think she called you a good boy.

(...) I think that's what...

(...)

I can't believe that you said that in public. It was bad. I said it like trying to be a little gross. You needed some public roasting. But it came out so much grosser than I ever thought it

This is also when we were going on a family walk and she had her ear pods in. And so I'm on this really nice walk with Karen and Emily. Like I'm just walking next to this crazy person. She's talking to... She's talking about the phone. Like this is nice.

I'm so sorry.

You do what you can, right? When you have a little baby.

You do. You do what you can.

(...)

So Emily, do you have any sort of intro you'd like to do or are we just skipping that since we...

You know what? I skipped an intro. Everyone...

(...)

He's my best friend. He's an exceptional person. I'm really excited to be able to get to know him a little bit.

Except for when he moves his mic while you're talking.

Oh my gosh. Yeah, you know about...

(...)

I was turning up the volume.

(...)

Sorry for that.

Do it again.

Everyone's going to hear a lot about him anyways.(...) So it's nice to introduce him to everyone.

Mr.

Kyle Erickson.

He takes a manly wave. A very manly wave with both hands.

(...)

dons his top hat.

(...)

With a parrot. Yeah.

Alright.

Mr. Erickson.

When you became a father.

What is something that shook you to the core?

(...) Oh my god.

(...)

So this is a heavy hitter for me.

I feel like maybe a preface would

Emily and I were just talking yesterday.(...) And I don't remember exactly what you said, but it was like...

Excited about making Kieran a friend. Like, you know, we didn't know who Kieran was when he was in your little bell bell. Which is where babies live in the belly.

(...)

We did just clarify Emily's was not little. In fact, I may have called her Violet from Willy Wonka right before you got on.

Yeah, she went into great detail.

I like it.

Okay, back to you.

(...) So what shook me to the core, and I don't know if Em know this, is it was the moment after... So we were in the operating room and Kieran had been removed from Emily. In the way that he was. And Kieran was on a table and Emily was on a table. And I was walking back and forth between now these two people that are both mine.

(...)

I don't own them, but they're my people.(...) And that prior to that occurring, he was in Em's womb. I'm trying to use the right term.(...) And I could do things for her that would potentially impact him. Like,

little stories and whatnot. Yeah, that shook me because I had to be...(...) I don't know if caretaker is the right word, but I was totally Papa Baron over both of my humans.

Were people...

(...)

Was it like that just huge weight of responsibility?

think protective nature, like nothing's going to happen to my people.

yeah, I knew that I could do anything. Right? Like Em was... What's the term? Hemorrhaging? Is that...

(...) Yeah.

(...)

And then Kieran was having some feelings up on his table. And so...

(...)

This is not funny. So yeah, I remember walking back and forth between the two because they were far enough apart. Or like, I couldn't just be with both of them.

Wow. Yeah.

So that was a great leading question.

Did you watch him come out? Like, did you watch them cut her open?

(...)

I don't remember seeing them make the incision. I do remember him being pulled out. I remember like watching Em's body shake as they were trying to like get him out and mimic a vaginal birth and everything. Oh. So like I saw that and then I saw... Yeah, when he was pulled out and then

I looked to see like what was going on down there after they did pull him out because...

just felt like I needed to know. Like I was... Yeah. I'm maybe particular in this way. But for the whole thing, I was taking notes. Like labor was 54 hours and I was taking notes. I'm like, who's coming in? What's going on? So I felt like I could ground myself. I'm like, well, you know, at this point, this happened and I could like be an advocate for both of us.

I looked. Maybe not a great idea. They make you sit down because I guess some people will faint.

I was going to say, I feel like majority of men would pass out.

Yeah. I think I was too tired to pass out.

Yeah, fair. Honestly. I do need to jump in here just for our listeners.

(...)

Our birth was classified. Like medical professionals in the hospital came up to us later. But like, I just need you to know that we would classify this as like medically traumatic. Like it was not normal.

(...)

We did not know. We thought we were going to have an unmedicated... You were there in the room. We were supposed to have an unmedicated natural birth in the birth center. So this was all of a surprise.(...) And I just need to call out Kyle because it was 54 hours of labor before we met Kieran.

And

was awake with me that whole time, essentially.(...) So he had been...

And you slept for part of it too, which is fine.

So sue me.

(...)

Through very strong contractions. We were monitoring them internally at that time. I would like to add. That's how tired I was.

Yeah.

But you had been tracking...(...) You'd also seen me through an emergency gallbladder surgery years earlier. So you knew that... And I just want to make this note for any partners and women going through this.

Even though we do have very highly trained medical professionals, it is really important to track what they're doing because there are so many of them. Things just frankly get lost in the hospital and potentially miscommunicated.

I was going to be diplomatic too and I was really going to talk about that. But I would say one thing that I have gone down...

Just say it.

Not a rabbit hole on. But like, my family has high blood pressure. So there was a point... I don't remember when it was, but I kind of nerded out about this. And where the cuff is... Like getting a correct blood pressure reading and everyone should go with this and talk to their doctor about it.

But where the cuff is, how strong, if it's the right size, where your arm positioning is, if you were just moving around. Anyway, it all makes a huge difference. And so I thought for me, that was my biggest win.

(...)

Not win, but I think just in the whole process. There were a couple of readings that didn't make any sense. And the cuff wasn't even on their right. So I was like, "Hey, can we do this reading again? Let's get this cuff." And I think that helped alleviate maybe some interventions that would have had to happen had they stuck with that

And that is relevant because I have great claims too.

And right before you were on Kyle, Emily and I were talking about how we can't imagine how women do it by themselves. Like how single moms do it. And just hearing you say something like that. I mean,

don't do my job perfectly all the time. Like we're all human. So as much as we want to assume our medical professionals do, they literally can't. Like they're human too.

(...)

So it's so important to have everybody that can advocate for you in that room. Because it's just such a huge transition into this new life.

recovery from that

also affect how you can emotionally process this new human and like go through matresence and patresence. Like, yeah, I mean, obviously you don't want to be, you want the least intervention possible anyways, just for your own healing. But that just affects so much. So yeah, there's just countless reasons why it is important to advocate and amazing that you were like that on top of it. Yeah, he was exceptional.(...) Okay, so we get through a dramatic birth that we're just gonna move right along.

(...)

I got my questions, I'm just gonna be real. They sent me the question so I can prepare. And like I was just taking some notes and I was like, okay, if I'm gonna cry at any of these questions because I cry so easily, it's probably gonna be this

Okay, this is the birth happens. Anything else you want to share about the birth, actually, I mean, the focus is

patrescent. So whatever that means to you becoming a father.(...) And that birth was

and monumental in some difficult ways. So

a good question. And maybe this will spark different conversation or maybe something else. But I would say reflecting on the birth, and just how my brain works, like I'm kind of slow to the uptake. Sometimes just I take a lot.

(...)

Okay, that might be true.

I take kind of process. Emily has nine months of gestation. Yeah, so like the body changes like so much is happening and feeling and you're going through.(...) And then all of a sudden, oh, the baby's out and I can finally, you know, get my hands on something. And so

(...)

on

And so I take my top hat off.

(...)

You know,

there's this timepiece where I can only do so much, which is to show up really well from Emily, my partner, and then the baby's out. It's like, okay, now I can feel my father dumb. And even that, you know, the breastfeeding like

as a dad, I don't have that going on. And there's such a that's such a connecting point for like early on when the baby is breastfeeding so much.

yeah, I don't know. There's just a lot of

that are specific to to a mom where there's a lot of there's time to kind of sit with that and feel that coming.

(...)

And then I'm like, I don't know. I don't know.

So

one thing that surprised you about fatherhood?

you know, just looking at him and just the pure joy

I get from what I'm gonna call nothing, right? He could stand there. He could stay

here to be standing there.

(...) Yeah.

And I'm just like, this

it. Yes. Give me more of that. You're gonna you're gonna take it. You're taking a stab. I can't handle it.

It's the best thing to ever happen.

So that that's a huge surprise. I think it how that still happens.

I remember with Charlie, I could because he was not planned. And like, I was panicking like, it was exciting. Equal parts with just terror. What happened? What have we done? Why did I smoke that cigar? Like, what is happening?

(...)

And I remember

that's not how you get pregnant.

(...)

One night in particular. There was one night in particular.

(...) Oh, you just get the metaphor. Okay,

(...)

there's one night in particular where I was like, just so no, I mean, it was just out of sorts about the whole thing. And I had this dream. And I dreamed that I was just sitting on the couch.(...) And my future child, it wasn't clear if it was a boy or a girl, but it was like about two or three, like probably three, just like ran into the room. And I had a glimpse into that love. And just like that pure joy. Like I remember I woke up and I was like, I felt like it what it was like to be about. I told him like, I can do this. I can't wait for this feeling. And that is the feeling like, now that I've had a child. I'm like, yeah, that was it was like such just like elation is the wrong word.

Like, I don't even know how you describe it.

But yeah, that's wild.

When were you pregnant? Or was he is still a baby when you had this dream?

I was pregnant. You're in the apartment. Okay. So I was second or third trimester, I think. Whoa. That wild.

You're feeling yourself and you're like, Yeah, yeah,

(...)

you woke up. Your hands were just like rubbing your stomach. It is like,

it's a chemical hit, I think that kind of joy like it is. It's like a drug,(...) I think. Yeah.

And it's surprising like every day. Yeah, that it keeps happening.

So yeah, I also think it's really funny. I don't know what the science is. But like, I get some of that from Kieran in a way that I don't think I would get from other babies. You know, like, I agree what

Okay, so we talked about

like, beautiful joyous moments. What are some reoccurring discomforts? You put this on.

See my son in mind.

The listeners at home. I'm looking off in the distance, pensively.

sleep and motivation. Oh, I think those are both pretty challenging when you're,

have such a cosmic shift from not having a kid and not having that

to then, you know, trying to craft a routine that is nothing that you've ever known or experienced before. Maybe you did in your circle, but I think moments of discomfort all kind of stem from lack of sleep and then just like the energy that it takes to keep showing up and doing good work. And yeah, that's been some discomfort.

(...) Some. I feel like some is an understatement.

(...)

Yeah.

What is at least one thing that is not talked about that should be

fatherhood, becoming a dad, any of this stuff.

was gonna say, Hey, before we start, we just look at some of these questions that maybe I don't have a great answer for. And this was one of them.

Okay, great.

What I will say is that I don't know. And I think a lot of this for me is just not much exposure to

there weren't people in my immediate circle that were

through fatherhood

don't have a good knowledge base for what isn't talked about out there. I didn't take action to seek out like, Hey, what are dads thinking or feeling? I read a book. I don't remember the name of that book, but our friends

partner one.

Yeah. Oh, yeah.(...) Thank you. Um,

(...)

we'll link that in the show notes. Um,

(...)

but I read that one because it was given to me by a midwife friend who shout out Carly, thank you so much. Carly, thank you so much for that one book that I read.

(...)

And, you know, I think what I learned most from that is like, every birth is different, which I've heard a lot before every birth is different. So, you know, it's, I think really just about being in tune with your partner. And, you know, I think you can read all the material or like watch YouTube, like whatever that is. But I think really the work is, you're talking to your partner and like you're learning how you're gonna do this thing together.

What about actual fatherhood?

Because I think patricence is longer than just the birth, at least. So

And that's the other thing. I don't have a circle of dads. Like my, my one touch point was Kevin.

(...)

Yeah,

lovely husband who, and I just, you know, I watched him. You guys are obviously the reason that we have a child right now because like you did a first.

(...) We

weren't gonna do it first. We were terrified. But then we saw you two young whippersnappers do it so beautifully. I'm like, you know, when I think of Kevin, when we were living out in Seattle, come back to see, you know, you as Charlie.

(...)

And I was like, wow, look at these guys doing this thing.

And

was huge for me just to see like,(...) you just show up well for your partner and then you show up well for your tiny human. And that's really all you can do.

would say my answer for this whole thing has been not great because I'm not exposed to it a lot. Yeah, I don't have a big circle. And I don't, similar to like, you know,(...) a mom has the nine months of lead up the body's changing. Like there are so many questions where the dad like, I didn't have much going into it. Like I read books and I think I talked with Emily, but I would say, you know,

I'm not really dabbled in that whole, hey, other dad, you know, what's this like for you? Because it's also just so individual. Like I look at, I feel like my relationship with Emily,

don't know if I have anyone that I connect with that's a dad that has this similar partnership and not in a negative or positive way. It's just like, you know, a lot of that is I think up to me and her. And so, yeah, I don't know. And I'm my own father too. So it's, I think once we get past this kind of support staff phase, and he's like in school or like,

like where his support staff, is that your reference?

I'm sure I'll have a lot more questions. And I think then when he's in this circle of kids and you know, these kids are doing different things and they have parents and that will kind of breed maybe some better questions for myself of like, oh, you know, when this happens, how do I approach this?

(...)

But

why don't I feel like dads don't talk about being dads unless it's like, here's the funny shit that happens. Yeah, true.

good question. And I want to be, I definitely want to circle back because I need to hear the answer, but I need to like, I'm very confused, frankly, as I'm listening you talk because I'm like, wait, we have two couples that were very, very close to who have their who had their first child are like months after cure. Are you talking about not having dad friends prior to cure and coming or like now because

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

but even even with those close relationships that I have,

don't typically talk about dad questions. I think we, you know, we can say, oh, you know, my kids here, you know, he's walking or you kind of it's more data versus Hey, I feel this way about this thing. And like, you know, I feel like I'm not talking about my kids. And like, you know, I can see you read when Kieran is throwing all of his food, washing his tray with his hand going,

see red, but I'm not like, I don't have a productive way to talk to another dad about that because it's like, well,

It is what it is.

It is what it is. Yeah, like, take the trip, like, I don't know,

does that give a little color to your point, Emily? Because it is a good one. I mean, that's why it was difficult for me to answer anything like give a coherent answer because I don't Yeah, I don't call up and be like, wow, I'm experiencing this today with my son.

(...)

I feel like it's less.

You guys, there's just so much happening with your bodies that I don't have that connecting piece, which other moms do have that unifying thing where I think being a dad, because we don't have that physical aspect for me, at least, I don't know, you know, I connect with people different emotionally.

So then it's just not an area that I've

(...)

learned

talk about yet and feel like I

you feel like you need to talk about it?

Not really. Yeah, like, you know, the big swings in emotion that I feel are joy, which I can share, like, and be like, wow, you know, it's just so joyful, or really mad, like, with the food thing, but I don't think there's any not yet any like actionables that another dad could say,

(...)

like,

(...)

not a lot of like parenting where you could be like, I need a tip for this.

Yeah.

Or with fresh motherhood, there's a SAB for that. Or have you tried this exercise? Or have you seen this clothing brand? Or have you I mean, I guess those are kind of a lot of the things we talked about. I do just want to take a second, Kyle, to refresh you on Petrusance. The

physical, psychological,(...) and emotional changes of becoming a father.

(...)

I wrote it down. Thank you. Emily's apparently looking for different answers from you. So maybe she should start asking.

Well, she knows she's she's got to keep me on track.

But there were it's so fascinating hearing this for me. This is another reason this is such a fun episode for me because I I'm just like, oh my god,

(...)

how are how was your life not completely turned on his head? And I know, like, we were just talking about this over dinner tonight, actually,

there are people who need to speak in order to think like me, like I talk in my head to myself when I'm ordering my thoughts, or I put them in a grid, or there are people who need to think in order to speak. And that's you you process.

(...)

Quite a while and are thoughtful before you feel the need to use your words.

I just had an approval. Yes.

(...) I just was going back to the definition because I'm if I look at your life, I knew you for seven years before we had what we were married seven years before we had Kieran. And I'm like, emotionally, life is so different for you. Hormone Lee, you definitely deal with my hormones socially,(...) that your life's totally different as well.

We also moved, I think, you know, where we had, we had kind of two major cosmic shifts, where,(...) yeah, I don't know. And, and then I reflect on, you know, before you have a kid, you don't know what it's like.

(...) Right.

And so, you know, as you became pregnant,

didn't have anyone in my circle to be like, oh, Emily's pregnant, like, what's this like? I mean, we had friends that that had babies, but they were also, you know, they were like, oh, I'm not going to be able to be pregnant.

(...)

And they were also like, older, and they kind of been through that. And they

people that I talked with on a regular basis, in a way, I'm like, Oh, how's your kid? And I think when you don't have a kid, you're like,

your kid's good, right? Like, I wouldn't go much further than that. And then you have a kid and you're like, Oh,

(...)

all of this is something I could never have thought about.(...) And I'm not future focused, which Emily might know, in a way where I kind of just like, you know, you take it as it comes.

So, is that surprising?

I feel like that's, I mean, we've said the same thing for matrescents, like, you really can't actually know.(...) And maybe the reason that we talk about matrescents more is because it's just so jarring on women.

(...) Yeah.

(...) And hearing from you from our, from our research with one,

participant.

(...)

But dressings just isn't as jarring is the kind of what I'm getting from your experience.

Yeah, a little bit. I feel like if I dug into a bit like, Oh, what was me like, you know, I didn't have a huge shift to my body. Yeah, my sleep schedules wonky like I really want to show up well for Emily is totally fished up.

But yeah, I mean,(...) what y'all go through is, and especially early on, right? Like, you have a period for so long, and then like you don't like that could be a question like, wow, like I had this thing and then your body just changes so rapidly. I feel like there's a lot of it's just so different than patrescents. To me, honestly, the word is there is patrescents and actual thing.

We don't know. I don't know.

I would kind of be like, that's society.

What is patrescents?

(...)

Wait, is let me like this. No, Emily just said it and it's really gross. It's so gross.

(...)

Is that's what this podcast is about?

(...)

Oh,

(...)

So dad trescents.

physical psychological. I'm like, yeah, you can get a dad Bob, but that's because like you're not.

(...)

You don't have motivation.

Yeah, there's so many things which yeah, I don't know if it hits the same way that matrescents is like this.

Watching a brother in law go through the birth early dad years. What are things that stand out to you?

And I, you know, thinking about it now, we were gone.(...) And so it's hard to remember also because my memory is destroyed since having a child.

But there's no change. There's no change. Yeah. I can't remember anything.

There's no change. Well, that's sleep deprivation. I like, well, I could go to bed earlier.

Yeah, I think with both. I mean, it's really not about the dad, but it's about the whole family for me,

are you all connecting well? And I felt like, you know, when we come back for our little snapshots, just to see this cute little young family, they bought a house, they're holding their little babe.

(...)

you were younger and you're younger than us. So just to watch you guys do it so beautifully and like do all of these things so quickly for me was just like, go get them. Like, it was just really inspiring to watch. And I think at that point, for me, I knew that I always wanted to have kids. And that's kind of one way. Like, I think I started bringing it up to Emily Marsh, like,

(...)

Kelly, Kelly, get kids. One to one. One can we have a kid? I want one. I want one too.

I don't remember you approaching it quite like that. But yes,

I don't know, just Kevin, watching Kevin be Kevin, it seemed like he was present.

(...)

And

Kevin, he was just Kevin,

it was just more of a vibe check, which is like, wow, they have this kid and it really seems like they're still kind of firing on all cylinders with each other and with this third saying,

even though, you know, it's really funny because it's not how it was.

But yeah, but and that's not also something probably that he and I would have dug into at the time.(...) Or yeah, just when you're in the thick of it early on, it's not like you want to at least I don't want to talk about all these, what could be kind of negative emotions or kind of like, oh, like, I can't believe this has happened. I don't know. There's, there's enough going on where I feel like to keep the outside noise, maybe a little bit at bay and just make sure that's what the

is working well. So it just felt like you guys were all showing up for each other really well.

(...)

How do you because you and Emily are such a team and you've worked on that so much before having kids and Kevin and I have like had to figure it out. How do you feel like you really showed up for Emily and her journey?

think

big one that I'm working on now is trying to alleviate the mental checklist that I know that she holds for everything ever.

(...)

And really trying to be proactive about getting here and stuff ready, you know, if we're trying to head out the door. So I think that that stuff and really being thoughtful of like, okay, food, clothes are in the debt shoes, you know, I don't want to need them to wear shoes and stuff. And I think that's what I'm trying to do.

(...)

I don't know what it is. I think it's going to be a good thing for me. I'm not saying I'm going to get in the car, but like get all this stuff that I know that Emily wants for him. So he's prepped for success. And to do that, so she can, you know, start to be a human like her own person and have different thoughts than like, what are we going to do for dinner? Like how are we going to navigate this situation? So I feel like that is something I'm still working on. But that would, I'm hoping is Emily can chime in.

Honestly, that one's huge. I'm going to be honest, because it's new.

(...)

I think he, we did, we had, we were married, we had our seventh wedding anniversary the day after Kieran was born.

(...)

So, and we put a ton of time and effort into our marriage, which has been so rewarding. And just such a great journey.

(...)

So certain things like advocating for me in the hospital, responding to my needs, hearing me, understanding where I'm at on any given day and like how he can be in partnership. He already just does that naturally. But he's really just an exceptional partner. So it's, you add a baby, I think the biggest changes are, we've had to figure out how to prioritize each other with

like we have to prioritize each other. We never had to work at that piece before. And now I think he, Kyle was the first one who recognized that we were the dopamine hits that we used to get from each other when we got home from work at the end of the day are now mostly coming from Kieran. So intentionally connecting with each other and stepping away from the drug is

(...)

away from the drug. And not going thing. But frankly,

(...)

doing these small things and really understanding the mental load from the get go is huge because it's changes my mood daily.

(...)

Like when I feel like I can trust him to do the little things, I know he has the big things. I don't worry about the big things. He showed me time and time again.

the little stuff is huge because it's new because I used to manage all that myself, frankly, and that was fine. And it was fine. Yeah. And now I will say because the mental load is trending all over social, at least, and we're even having more journalists pick up on it, this concept of the mental load and I get a lot of noise on social about how our men are falling short, or how women are having a really hard time talking to their men about the mental load.

(...)

And I'm sure that's very true and unfair and objectively bad for a lot of people.

(...)

But I would like to say that I'm intentionally letting go as well and letting him do these things on his own.(...) And it might be different. It's always different than how you would do it.

fine, but you know, you have to do that. I think if we're gonna ask him to take on the mental load, we also have to watch it happen and celebrate it. Thanks, Babers.

You're welcome. My one mental load was actually talking to my other mental load the other day and he was just kind of like, Hey,(...) get out of your head. Just check in with Emily. She doing okay. But yeah, I think like knowing my deficits in our relationship and you know, deficit maybe is too strong of a term, but just knowing where I know that I need to up my game. I think that's what I've been focusing on and hopefully trying to show up for him really well.

(...) So do you feel like you're just like personhood, your identity has shifted since being a dad?

Yes.

(...)

Final answer.

(...)

Yeah, I mean, you know, I think, you know, showing up for your partner when it was just the two of us and I wasn't person. I just wasn't future focused. And I think there were a lot of things where in the relationship, Emily's really good at it. It seemed like she kind of naturally gravitated towards planning and like, you know,

(...)

gets excited about the details of the planning, like building out

life in a way where I was kind of like, Hey, this is cool. You wake up. Yeah, exactly. And then when you have a kid, it's just such a shift in where's your focus, right? Because especially when you have a kid, you know, you're like, Oh, I'm not going to do that. Yeah, exactly. And then when you have a kid,

(...)

it's just such a

in where's your focus, right? Because especially early on, it's there's just so much change going on with the sleep schedule for everyone, the feeding schedule, what?

Why does your wife's face look like that?

I'm really not sure.

But doing great.

Thank you so much.

I'm like, so shook.

And so like, knowing that how much food she needed because she was breastfeeding. I'm trying to I'm trying to remember a moment where it's like, where it really hit me. But again, I think it's just looking back at my prior dad self and being like, Oh, like, I really need to consider all of that.

(...)

All these things so that it doesn't just fall on Emily.

that address your question?

(...) Well, do you feel like your identity shifted?

(...) Yes.

(...) Yeah, final answer. He meant it.

I did. I really did.

(...)

Explain your face.

So shook right now. Because when I hear Do you feel like your identity shift, like they like it shifted after you had a kid, like, I'm thinking about my experience. And I'm like, Yes, it took me over a year to even remember who I thought I used to be before I had I look at the this color blue in the sky. And I'm like, that's a different blue than before I had a kid like everything's so different. And it's just so fascinating to hear you say, I mean, you're literally listing tasks that happen in your life that are new. And you're talking about skill sets that you're trying to develop.

(...) And honestly, thank God, like, I feel like people could think we're about to roast and then to load and go back and then to do. And then to load and go back and harp on that and men. But like, can you imagine if both partners,

(...)

majority of relationships, both partners had this identity crisis, like, that would be a disaster. So as you're talking through that, like, I mean, truly, thank goodness, but I am also like, how that

probably helps answer the question better too, because I did know that I had to be really steady. I think because, yeah, I mean, you know, the nine month leading up the birth is traumatic, all this stuff where I felt like, hey, I just got to be solid. And I need to make sure that I'm showing up well.

(...)

And so it's not yet nothing huge. It is just the easy, mundane things where I feel like that is my most impactful way to show up for Emily.

(...)

I mean, that is spot on the money. And Cal, that's a really good call out. We do need the balance. We need the different perspectives.

(...) Yeah, we had disaster. I wouldn't.

Yeah, I can say firsthand that you're you've been such a solid rock. And I've needed you and I needed you to be that and thank you so much for being that.

Oh, they've got

a face is for the listeners at home. Kyle's face is blushing. There's a slight tear in both eyes. I love you, Emily. Thank you.

I love you. Thanks.

(...)

Kyle, I'm gonna throw you a curveball.

This was so good. I want to just shut my notebook because

you're gonna love this one. Ready?

Okay.

None of the women we've interviewed have like been able to answer this quickly.(...) Ready?

(...)

What makes you feel beautiful?

(...)

Oh, my goodness. When I get a haircut. Is a makes me feel good. B. I know that when Emily looks at me, she thinks he's putting effort in to himself. I do. And I like that.

I do. I like that. And I think it.

It's like a double win for me when I get a haircut.

He just answered right away. He did. That was easy. Okay. What new traits do you have since becoming a dad?

mean, my jokes are spot on.

Not changed. Can we up for the for the listeners? He was

sorry, I'm getting some feedback in my mic. So my jokes are spot on.

Dad jokes.

What traits new traits? I do feel like recognizing my is there a better word than deficit? What do you think? Like my what I need to work on in a relationship? I can't feel that more.(...) And I could feel why it made such a difference to you. I feel like maybe before having a kid, you could say something to me. I'm like, No,

(...)

I don't do that. Or like, No, I'm gonna keep doing that.

Oh, yeah. Like, thank you for the feedback. Actually, not relevant to me. Sorry.

I should really sit and think with what my wife, what her words are saying.

(...)

And if I don't know, I should ask. But I feel like that is a new trait, which is I'm maybe not such a blunt instrument and not to short sell myself. But I do think that that's been a big trait change, where I see this big picture now, which is like, we're a family.

(...)

And to that team, like you kind of have to be.

Yeah.

Like I said, you were a good team before. But like, it didn't really matter that much if you are a good team before.

No, not at all, actually. I mean, it didn't so far as like, Hey, we want to have a kid.

(...)

Like, and we want to have that as like the foundation before we go into this, not that you have to, but I do feel like we just got really lucky with being able to because yeah, I think I reflect if Emily and I had had a kid, you know, in year one or two of our marriage, we're totally fine. Totally, totally fine.

(...)

It

would have been very challenging. Yeah, it's just the reality of our communication styles and yeah, all sorts of different relationship things. Yeah, so other new traits. Yeah, my jokes are spot on those. Number one. Number two, really showing up well here. Number three traits. Yeah.

(...)

Probably just those two.

(...)

That's it.

(...)

I really don't think I've changed that much. My circumstances have changed a lot. I do have different emotions. I think going back to that joy piece, it is interesting to look at a little human gets such a hit of dopamine. And then you look at your partner and kind of like, I don't smile at you like I'm smiling at my kid.

(...)

Yeah, you just

it's like the waves are so much bigger now. And they hit you with the weirdest times too. And so I feel like you can't plant, you know, if you're on a trip, you kind of you know, the trajectory, you know what you can get excited about. But when you have a kid,

it can just hit you at different times. And the peaks and valleys can. Yeah.

Yeah.

Shift a lot.

(...)

Do you feel like there's a lack of support for dads?

(...)

of sounds like BS. I'm like, well, for me, no, like, you know, I've got such a good circle. I'm not very active about seeking support.

so I don't even know. But I'm just like, well, I don't know, do anything about it. If you need more support, like go talk to your your people.

(...)

I haven't gone down

internet browse of like, what are some support things?

(...)

And I,

you don't like you feel supported.

Yeah, I do.

I also think that's partly because you're in a really flexible job.

Yeah, could be I also think that once Karen gets again beyond my support staff phase, I feel like I will need that group of dads to kind of like talk through parenting stuff. And

I think, you know, it really starts with me and Emily being on the same page, but I'm sure it'll be helpful to bounce ideas off. And so yeah, I don't know if you guys have been a huge support,

I have a question. Yeah, you go. What makes you feel valued as a father and a husband?

(...)

Sex, for sure.

(...)

As a husband.

(...)

Yeah, we know that

as a father.

Well, I'll get your rebuttal after so as a father, valued as a father, there are moments where I'll catch you Emily looking at me, and I just feel like, oh, she's just like looking at me being a dad.

(...)

And I don't say anything in the moment, but that is huge for me.

I'm just being a father holding my son. And you're watching me.(...) Help.

Yeah.

(...)

And I just love it.

(...)

And I didn't want to, you know, when you look at a thing and then it kind of like, oh, it's a little different. But so me bringing up, I hope it doesn't change it. But like, that's huge for me. I think being a father.

It's just such like a noble thing.

(...)

You know that like you, you couldn't exhibit those traits before in those ways, even though you don't feel like life has changed.

(...)

Yeah.(...) If I've learned anything in this conversation, do we have a son. I'm not quite sure.

(...)

Hey, I think we're at the hospital for a long time. What else?

I don't know.

as I was, you know, looking through the questions, I was just like, huh, this just hits dads a lot differently than I does moms.

I think I'm learning that right now because I need to such like a fire in my gut to be like, okay, I think we should be doing better from a legislation point. I mean, we should, there are so many things that we ought to be doing better to make this easier and also more attainable.

(...)

There's so many reasons to make motherhood and fatherhood and informing a family more of a central point of our civilization right now.

don't think I feel good about having that conversation or really focusing so much on moms without having dads participate in the conversation.

(...)

And it's just so funny. I live with you. We talk all the time and it's just different for you.

Yeah. And even like my immediate thought when you just said that I'm like, those are all external. Like what can you and I do to not control the situation but make it be what how we want it to go. And they're just certain things where it's like it's all up to us.

Like the legislation. I mean, and even that impacts

differently.

you were saying, oh, I don't feel like I needed lacking in support. I was thinking in my head. Are you joking? You worked every single day. I came home from, you know, being awake for five days straight and giving and delivering that baby. We were in the hospital for five days after that. Finally, we get home. We had to go to the ER that week and you worked every single day of that week.

And like we talked about recently, I don't remember a single day.

You didn't put in eight hour days, but you were running paywall. You were like, you have this flexible job, but you still were showing up in your private home sphere as well as your professional one. So to me, I'm like, you're not asking for more support, like,

I mean, that's also just being a dad. That's being a dad, too. I feel like like because our bodies aren't going through as much as a woman's body is, it's kind of like, well, where would the cutoff point be? Right? Like, is it? And I know that, you know, there's different paternal leaves and all this stuff. It would be great to like have it be matched with your partner. So like you guys can do. But maybe it's also good sometimes to have the partners be apart early on potentially and not like in a way that's out of their control. I feel like it would be nice to have some employment support or whatever that looks like.

were crucial to me in those days, those hours you spent at work or those little bits of time you were working from home. And I just want to go on record saying that your presence, for the most part in our lives, as I was recovering and you were getting to know Kieran was crucial. So for any dad out there, because I often hear about dads putting their careers over their whole life, if it's possible, take as much time for your wife, your partner, your child away from the office as possible.

(...) Well, and I think what I'm hearing and what I've just observed in life is I think the important support dads need is

for them to advocate for the birthing mother.

(...)

Like I think maybe it's just that they need the support to better serve the birthing mother because I mean, I think about how much I can power through on a normal day if I haven't just given birth like, yeah, I could be super sleep deprived for five days and go to work.

if you don't have hormones going all over it, like, yeah, it'd be shitty but fishy. This is anybody in that context that was actually worse. Good save, Cal.

(...)

It'd be really unfortunate.

But like not horrible, right? Like not the ups and downs of birthing a child. So I mean, yeah, how do dads

how to start being that supportive husband that can advocate for your partner?

So maybe it's still just supportive the mom, like, at least in Kyle's experience.

That's what all came down to for me because yeah,

(...)

I'm like, fuck up, dude. Like, I don't know. If you're tired, playing a nap or like communicate with you with Emily like, hey, I'm actually really tired.(...) Can you do this? Or, you know, can you be on duty tonight for the whole night or something? But yeah, mostly, I'm just kind of like,

not doing fish, bro. Like, your wife just did this whole thing.

Shut up. Like, don't do something.

(...)

how have you seen Emily and or I if you have comments change through matrescence.

(...)

think the largest one, and for the listeners at home, you'll be able to see my face but but before having a child, Emily,

never kind of did, I don't know how you describe this face.

(...)

Like, you know, downturn mouth like, oh, it's the, oh, like when you see a little puppy.

(...)

I'm sorry.

Like the simper like the earn.

Yeah, when you see a little puppy like, oh, my wife before having a kid never did that ever.

(...)

And then we had a kid, and I remember, I don't know, like, obviously she was looking at him. And I saw her do this face and I was like,(...) Who's that

funny.

Emily.

So that was really impactful.

(...)

Because it went deep

with it seriously

was because it's it just to me, it exhibited all of these feelings and emotions that she had looking at our son in a way that prior to that she never to me at least seem to express that in that way. And so honestly, it was huge for me to see her do that. And I still haven't recovered. So if

you if you asked me the question again, I might have more answers, but I really

like that one.

both of you. I mean, Cal, you've always been a tank. And I just feel like you just keep tanking. You do not tanking south but like you're just a powerhouse. And I look at Emily and myself and like we have a kid. Oh, so hard.

(...)

I think about that to my prior self. Kevin and I the other day, we were like, we thought that was hard. And now it's like, we were down one kid the other day because he was at one of them. I remember which one was it a grandparents and we were like,

this is amazing.

(...)

Yeah, and I think you guys are just so huge for me because you're just an example of a family in my close circle that I can really experience what is having a family like and I feel really emotionally connected with both you and Kevin in a way where I can feel that and I don't always put it to words really well, but I it's just it's this sense. And so, yeah, you guys, you're just tanks.(...) And it puts me in a spot where I'm like, we have a kid.

Go cry downstairs. Like, I don't know, get over it.

You talk to yourself for me or Kieran.

(...)

out. I don't know.

(...)

It's just so that I think we're always kind of in this, not in on the sidelines, per se, we have a child, but it's to have you guys for me is just huge, just to watch you exist and and know what's coming if we have a second kid if we're in love. I'm just saying, I'm just like, I'll be like, Oh, 54 hour labor. That sounds nice.

(...)

I really hope to God you never have a labor like that again.

I know me too. We can do it.

We will. Yeah, you did it once. Do it again. We will not. We will.

Let's not do that.

well. So what I'm hearing is that you there's been no change really in your life since becoming a dad. So basically, maybe not what he said. You were a dad when I met you.

(...)

You know, maybe you've just. Mine. Blown.(...) Dad.

(...)

Dormant. But still there.

Dormant dad.

Did you name?

Listen, for all of our listeners in college.

(...)

I love shading. I dated around. It was fun.

(...)

Kyle actually is the first person I super fell in love with. Like I when I was first dating him and was like, wow, this is I didn't actually want to get married till I was 35. But like, this feels different and real.

(...)

At the time was a serial dater because I had this thing that I called like the baby test, which was like, okay, if I were to have a baby with this person,

(...)

a, would I be thrilled to like pass on their genetics to the world? If the answer is no, then probably I shouldn't give them my time or like be do I think that they would be a good nurturer? Like if we have this baby and then I died or something, would I trust them to nurture a small human? Well, if the answer is no, then I shouldn't allow them to nurture me.

and Kyle, I immediately was like,

for the listeners at home, I put Emily Socks on.

(...)

Every morning

for her.

Nurture baby nurture.

I was just saying you pass the baby test with flying colors.

So it's funny because you like didn't really want a baby. It was just like a test for someone that's like not a baby person.

I can be like kind of black and white. I don't know. Like I was just trying to protect myself because I'm like, you know, emotions attraction can be rampant. So for me, I was just like, that's a clear line. Cool, cool, cool.

I love that this is

Apple podcast and Spotify. So like, if this makes the podcast any time

I just need like a little pick me up.

(...)

Like, oh, let's go to a minute 58 blah, blah, blah. And listen to Emily just bestows beautifulness on me.

Like play it out loud for her when she's with you.

(...)

She'll love that.

(...)

Hey, I'm your man. Let me play something for you.

Yeah, remember this.

Well, thanks, Kyle. You were our first male on the Real Mom Hub.

I take off my suit jacket and I take off my parrot hat and I say, thank you so much for having me. This is lovely. And it's so great to see both of you and see you soon maybe.

But no, thanks for having me on.

It

Yeah, housekeeping we need

Oh man, I'm just sitting in gratitude.

Love you both.

Love you guys.

Love you. Bye.