Episode 16: The One for the Moms Struggling to ‘Bounce Back’

In this episode, we delve deeper into the transformative journey of matrescence, exploring what it means to leave behind old identities, embrace new ones, and rediscover parts of ourselves after motherhood. We unpack the origins of the term "bounce back" and challenge its limiting implications, reframing the narrative to celebrate creativity, curiosity, and the newfound power that motherhood brings. From the beauty of mom butts to the joy of exploring personal growth and self-expression, this episode is a love letter to the strength, curiosity, and creative energy of new moms redefining their stories. Let’s find power in motherhood, and celebrate cultivating the courage to grow.

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

There are no measurables. I want to try and build those into my week. Anyways, this is all a roundabout thing to say there's that on one flip side, which is really hard to embrace. I'm struggling to embrace it. However, I actually feel this innate deep power that didn't exist before giving birth.

(...)

And I think that that for me is a melding of my curiosity and conviction. I am deeply convicted about what is right for our family.

(...)

Hi.

Hello. How are you? So good. So I'm in my friend Christina's office. The background is really nice. It's really, really cute. Good job, Christina. I know it feels really good in here.

Really want to get like a nice space. We have plenty of space so it makes me really want to put in the effort to make a space nice for me. I feel better in this space. Yeah.

I... Wait, I have... Yup.

Are you telling me why you were in a panic right before we jumped out? Okay, great. We need to hear it. I need to hear it.

So first I need to preface by seeing my husband just finished catching up on our podcast. He's now listened to all of them. He like went through a binge. I know. He wasn't listening for a long time, which like fair, but also pretty funny. Like good spotter to make fun of him for. Oh, totally. Let's roast him. He listened and he was like, Cal, every time you like give an update, it's like life is really busy, but it's good. Like every single time. Yeah. So I was so excited today because yesterday I was thinking about it and I was like, life is finally like kind of chill right now. We're in an in between season with music stuff.

excited to just say life is good. And then my dog has a UTI.

she actually peed on the carpet in the house this morning, which she never does. So then as I was trying to prep my sourdough pita with the kids and Charlie was trying to make another one of his creations that waste all of our flour and milk and vegetables, because that's how he likes to make treats right now that he doesn't eat. Yep.(...) Nora was screaming because she has a terrible diaper rash. Oh, baby. I know it was really sad. And then the vet called and was like, we can get you in at

(...)

the end. So I had the stroller, the kids, the dog, in the vet. They're doing a vaginal exam with all of this. What?

(...)

Okay, I have so many questions. Does your three year old also have questions?

(...) No, well, no, he didn't have a lot, but now he's being really cute practicing to be a vet

Okay, you watch those hands because he just saw somebody go up in there.

That's so true. Yeah. That's so true. Shoot.

(...)

So like it's been a morning and it's pretty funny. I mean poor Nora with the diaper rash and poor Hazel with the UTI, but

it's been a little comical that all of it kind of, it's just been all morning.

(...) Yay.

So here we are. What are you loving about motherhood on this trip of yours right now?

Oh God.

things.

just watching our important people like hang out with my kid.

(...)

Yeah. Watching him make them laugh.

(...)

Um, he has a little bestie about his age out here. So watching them play together is just so cute. It's unwell. I mean,(...) yeah. He now has matching Crocs.(...) Oh yes. Yeah. And I was gifted matching Crocs to Dash's mom. Yeah. It's got family.

(...) Cute. Yeah. Yeah. Have you ever had Crocs before? Like real Crocs No.

Do you love them? I'm going to, I'm going to be honest. I've been obsessed with baby Crocs for a long time. And I always said I would never, but man, I put these babies on and they're really cute. Terra color color, like, uh, like nailed the color. And then they have these, like, what I didn't understand about Crocs is that you they've got these little like, um, not acupuncture, acupressure. Oh yeah.

Like, I don't know, but the soles of my feet, it's amazing

are just, they get a whole experience every step I take, you know, I didn't know, I didn't know this about Crocs. Yeah. They're really ugly and so comfortable. They're so comfortable. Yep. So our BBK is terracotta colored. No, no. He's there like a, like a deep Navy with a little monster charms on them.(...) So cute.

(...)

So anyways, what I'm loving about mothering this week is

with my people. We're all just hanging out. Yeah. Every time they see him, he's like a new baby because he's changing so much. And it's just been so good. What are you looking at?

Um, I think just,

being with other families with kids, it's similar just like watching the kids interact and watching how my kids are with other kids because it's different than they are just like at home. We have a lot of home time right now. Yeah. And Charlie has school time, but I'm not with him when he's in Montessori a couple mornings a week. So

it's kind of fun just like watching what they like to do, how they like to interact. Yeah. Just fun. Nice. Anything hard about motherhood? Oh yeah.

This week, Kyle.

(...)

I'm not mothering Kyle, my husband.(...) That's not what I meant. Nope. Uh, but we are trying to parent together and also be in vacation together. And there are definitely external stressors happening on this trip, but I think more than that,

just navigating a lot of moving around. It's navigating who's watching him and who's getting time off. And he's so busy. He's so busy and he's so active. Kieran, not my husband, BBK. BBK is busy.

we're not super gracefully taking responsibility for watching him, either one of us.

You like reverting back like to pre-baby when you used to live in Seattle and you didn't have a small human have to worry about. Like I wonder if it's harder

you're sort of remembering how it used to be.

It could be that like patterns with these particular friends were built when we didn't have a baby. And now it's an interesting thought. I don't know.

I think probably we're just not used to

with a toddler. It's the first time we've really vacationed with a toddler. And can it be called that? It's really my question for the rest of our lives. Amen. You know?

When does it become vacation again?(...) When we're 50?

(...)

Oh,(...)

I'm sorry. That's hard. Yeah. I mean, but you know what? It's a hardship on vacation.

So how hard is it? Yeah. I mean, you're in Seattle with the people you love, including your husband. I'm going to remind you.

Yeah, no, I do love him. Mostly I like him too. And I actually like that you're saying that right now because I was listening back to his Patrescents episode, just thinking like, gosh, I can imagine listening to this being like, fish you.(...) What a beautiful husband. You know, just like he's so supportive. He's so thoughtful. Like he's so, so he is all of those things. He is. And he's also human.

Yeah. Sometimes he's a little fish head.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

And it's unusual for us to be in a pattern where like he's a fish head. And I'm like, I received that. I accept that for a little bit. I'll give you some. Nope. I'm going to be a fish head right back. Cool. Cool. Cool. Cool. You know, not normal for us, but here we are. Yeah. It's real cute. Loving it here.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Anything, anything hard for you besides your morning.

Yeah. That was just like a comedy of errors.

Nora is still not really talking, which I'm not really concerned developmentally, but it's just getting really frustrating because she's frustrated.(...) I'm frustrated because she knows exactly what she wants. And by this, Charlie could leak very much like use his words and she is not using words. So we're thinking about doing like speech therapy soon. You know, just one of those things.

Not loving, no, ongoing hard to figure out what you ought to do. Yes.

So today we are talking more about matrescence. That's the theme for the season.(...) So just a little refresher on what matrescence is. If you haven't listened to other episodes, it's basically this time of becoming a mother that can last two to three years is sort of what people think. But how could you really know? Similar to adolescence in a lot of ways, lots of parallels, but this is matrescence when you become a mother.

You are changed on the other side of this journey. You sure are.

So today I just really want to talk about

the term bouncing back, first of all, because I think it's loaded. Yeah. Right. Like my heart rate elevates when I say that.

things about our former self before matrescence that we're happy to let go of.

And also things that we want to embrace again when we can.

I think about bouncing back

that's such a ridiculous term because it's just saying that you're going to go back to the way that you were before, which you shouldn't and you can't. But there are some things that I do still feel like I will regain and I'm excited about those things.

Yeah. I think you put in the notes like what does bouncing back mean? Do we, you know, and I, my immediate thought was like, what do I think of when I think of bouncing back? I think I only ever related it to bodies bouncing back.(...)

that was always a myth for me. I had been around enough pregnant women where I was like, that's a cultural myth. It happens to,

I don't know, one in 5,000 women. That guy just, that's the crazy part.

It does happen to some, at least on the outside, which blows my mind, but yes,

purely physically, you know, aesthetically even made that. Yeah.

I think the other thing that inspired in me just was I was, I was thinking, well, what do I think about this phrase? Do I accept it? Do I reject it?(...) AI reject it wholeheartedly. I think it's a ridiculous thing to have,

you know, floating around our culture as one of the main perspectives we have on mothers and how they should be after they give birth, which is another reason why I think it's so important to replace that. I think I actually want to replace that, bouncing back with matrescence because no one's going to tell a 15 year old with acne all over the face, oh, you're going to bounce back from this adolescence. Right. You're just not. Like it's a ridiculous, like that's a laughable statement. And you don't want to. No, right.

really interested to get your thoughts on this. The only positive, I really was searching for some sort of, why do we have this phrase? Is it of service in any way? And I think for those in our communities who are watching us go through this, I think it is necessary to have some sort of starting point to measure wellness in the mom.(...) Like we know who she was before she got pregnant, had this baby. There's got to be some, you know, perception of her against which to measure. Is she okay? Is she so far removed from this person that we know that she ought to seek medical help, et cetera? That's honestly the only helpful piece of the concept of bouncing back that I can think of is that having a baseline could be helpful, a baseline expectation of who she is.

(...)

So why are we obsessed with bouncing back? I guess that's my first question because(...) I could see, I've never thought of that perspective, but I could see a place of compassion, you know, like being concerned about this person, this woman that is so different than how they were before. Sure. And like wanting change is hard for everybody.(...) So I could see as an out, like someone looking in,

being scared of that change.

(...)

I think maybe we're digging too into the compassion and maybe it's just a fishy phrase. Oh, I think it sucks.

I was just trying to come up with anything.

Has anyone said it to you?

(...)

Is that affected you?

(...)

It's a great question.(...) No, I get people commenting on,(...) oh, you look great. And I'm just like

that. I even don't like that because I'm, I can't think about my body right now because it's so far from what it was.

(...)

How about you? Well, nobody says that phrase. Like I think it's one of those things. It feels like, like the word skinny to me. No, not to say that now, but we still infer it. We still need it. Sure. Yep. No, you're right. So I think nobody has said bounce back, but there have been comments. I mean, even after Nora, a sweet nurse at my checkup. So I went in, we had to go in for her billy Reuben level levels. And this very sweet nurse was like, you don't look like you just gave birth, which made me feel great in the moment.(...) But then I actually thought about it months in when I feel like I looked the same as I did three days postpartum. And I thought about it and it, it's just one of those things where,

bounced back to me as purely physical because we don't seem to acknowledge the rest of the change that happens. Right.

So that's the quiet part. We don't say it out loud.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think we can agree bounce back sucks. We don't say it anymore, but we still kind of mean it. Can I tell you

why I think the phrase exists? Yeah.

(...)

I think it's because our generation of women have been lied to

(...)

about motherhood,

think like during the feminist movement, I think we're on the third or fourth wave. I can't even remember.

think we started lying to each other

telling each other we could have it all.

(...)

And that's a beautiful dream.

(...)

And I don't,

frankly, it still is my dream and my expectation for myself. Yes, you can have it all. You can have a beautiful family. You can have a deep fulfilled marriage.

You can have richness in your community and in your lifestyle, and you can have a baller career. I actually fully expect to have all of those things. However,

(...)

I think the lie that we tell both women and men

that we can have it all at one time. Yes. And I

really thought I could.

(...)

And I wasn't willing to accept certain trade-offs once Kieran arrived, but I didn't realize I would have to make them. Sure.

(...)

So that's why I think there's the bounce back because you can't tell women, work really hard at this career. You're empowered. You can have whatever you want and you can have kids. I mean, yes, all those things are true. However, we don't actually have supports set up in this country to support mothers or fathers.

So has your dream changed at all? Like you say you still have that dream.

(...)

Has any part of it besides the timing changed, do you think?

Career goals come to mind.

No,(...) but the timing feels major. Pretty significant right now.

What do you think of that reason? I'm just curious how that's sitting with you.

(...) Oh, I never tied it to the feminist movement. I always tied bouncing back to

(...)

our

men's perception of us and us. I'm trying to be skinny in the 90s, that sort of thing.

I never thought about it that way, but it makes a lot of sense to me that it could actually have stemmed from women saying, let's have it all. We can do this. Which,

yeah, I agree that

own time, yes, you can have all of those things.

(...)

But I don't think that my

I think they're different now than they were before kids.

Huh. I have to think about that for a minute. And I do just want to clarify also, I don't think that the feminist movement is responsible necessarily. I don't think feminists or women were necessarily the ones lying. I think also men,(...) I think it is self-protective to say, oh, the women in my life, not only do they nurture me, they nurture my kids.

If I'm saying, if I'm agreeing to them also showing up and having it all in the workplace, I need to safeguard my lifestyle and make sure she knows she's got to bounce back and continue taking care of me and the kids.

and emotional, what can she accomplish sort of way? Not just physical. Oh, yeah. Because I don't know why I figured it was tied to men, the physical, because honestly, now that I have had children and have friends who have had children, all the men in those situations have just said their attraction has grown. Once they see that beautiful birth and just the fact that she created life,

in good partnerships, I think it frequently actually is a good thing no matter what you look like.

Well, but I think you just nailed

whole crux of the issue, which is that you

have a very wholesome, intentional community. You surround yourself and you value good, wholesome relationships.

(...)

And that is not how most of our culture is.(...)

So I guess my dreams look different because I thought that I was going to be a choir teacher and like a career choir teacher.(...) And maybe I still will, but I'm not tied to that particular thing. So that's kind of what I'm getting stuck on the rest of it. Like I do still want to run an ultra marathon if I want to, and I think I could. Like the physical stuff,

the dreams that I had, I think I could accomplish if I choose to. Sure. But again, like hiking the Appalachian Trail, it's not really a big dream of mine anymore.

I don't know. I might do it, but there's just things that are more important. Huge value shift.

(...)

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's my question to you is, are there things

your former self that you're happy to leave behind and say, I don't need that anymore. That doesn't serve me. Not yet.

(...)

Okay. I don't think. I'm here for your honesty. Yeah. I think

of these conversations with you, I love looking back because I'm such a fresh mom. My kid is 17 months old. This is very much still fresh and like this is a great conversation for us right now because I mean, I'm technically through postpartum, but I'm still grappling with these huge identity shifts. And I'll be honest, most of

things I'm leaving behind are like kicking and screaming to stay. Yeah. It's like a dramatic, have to kind of quash them down, shove them to the curve.

(...)

I don't, I'm not happy about it. No, I think one of the things that comes to mind that I'm grateful to leave behind. I think

seven years, Kyle and I just had a really fun, we were kind of like adult kids, frankly.

We earned good money. We lived in a super fun part of the world with fun friends who like to do fun things. I mean,

mean, it's not like we were wealthy, but for two people with the taste that we had, it was kind of like,

well, yeah, we could do that this year if we wanted to.

(...)

And so I think we were moving more and more in a shallow direction.(...) Like

our relationships with each other and our friends were deepening in the community. However,(...) it was kind of all about shiny things like shiny hikes, shiny cabins, shiny restaurants, hot new restaurants that had just opened up that you go to, to like talk about with your friends. Like a bit materialistic. Totally materialistic. Oh yeah. 100%. Sure. So again, I'm grateful to have you so again, I'm grateful that I don't value that anymore actually. At all?

Not right now.

(...)

I will. And you do for other people.(...) Like it's not that you don't value a new restaurant opening. It's just not what you need right now.

It's like, am I going to try and find a babysitter

in order to go there? God, that sounds like a lot of effort. Yeah. If I'm going to leave my kid,(...) I need the conversation to be really quality. I don't want to be like sitting in this super loud. I want to have a good conversation with Kyle. I don't need the shiny new thing. I don't even want it right now. So again, I'm grateful that that is shifting, but I can't say I'm happy about it because it was so fun. Yeah. Do you hope that you'll regain that? Absolutely. I expect I will, but probably in retirement. Yeah. Or like when all the kids are in college, frankly.

I bet even high school, they can watch themselves. That's true.

But matter. Okay. Do you know how busy kids make your lives?

(...)

That needs to be a whole nother episode because I, yeah, that's one thing that like Charlie's getting to the age where we're considering like, maybe we should try a music class. Maybe we should trade a class. And I'm like, I don't want to start because once we start, I feel like it's so hard to stop. Yeah. That's enough. That's a different episode.

Yeah. So what was your question? What was your question was, are you happy?(...) Well, no, happy was not part of it. Oh, cool, cool, cool, cool, cool. So I just inserted that. You're welcome. What are,

what is something that you're,

you want to leave behind? Maybe I did say happy. Let me look at

Yeah, I got nothing boss.

did you have old habits that you let go? You know, even small things that like don't serve you now and that you don't feel like you need again.

This

interesting because I don't know if it's that you're that fresh or that actually you're going to laugh. Your personality was just more conducive.

going to think I'm crazy. What? Okay, go that your personality was more conducive to that transition into motherhood. What do you mean? Like you're just more chill than I am.

when I think about the things I can list a bunch of things that I'm so happy to let go up and hope that I never regain and most of them. Yeah, it's easy for me. Most of them are around my type A tendencies.

(...)

Like my OCD tendencies, like those things that you don't really actually exhibit.

Okay, say your list. Let me see if I can see Facebook anything. I'm curious about what you're

things I'm still working on. A lot of it would stem around spaces in our house being tidy. Oh, right. Like my schedule. I was so planned out, especially in college. Like I had everything planned to a T and those things had to happen at that time for me to get everything done. Mm hmm. Which was great because I was able to do a lot in college and take a lot of credits and do well at things and keep up with my ensembles. But like I had 20 minute practice sessions scheduled that I couldn't miss. And I would even write what I was practicing for or what piece I was or even like measures in that 20 minutes. Like my life was that scheduled.

(...)

And again, it worked then it did serve me then. But I don't ever want that kind of schedule again.(...) And there's no way to have a schedule like that with your child. Okay, sleep. I used to be sleep obsessed.

(...)

Like I know that the science says you need this amount of sleep. And if I don't get that I would start spiraling like I'm not going to perform as well that day. I wouldn't be able to fall asleep at night because I'd be like I'm not falling asleep, which still happens sometimes.(...) But just those little obsessions about my life being perfect.

Then I'm having to let go.(...) Did you ever

my life should be this will make my life perfect?

I never I knew it would never be perfect. But I always thought that's what I needed to strive towards.

I don't know if that's just my personality.

(...)

Or if it's,

mean, this is funny, but I've played violin since I was three. Like, that's one of those instruments that like, that's sort of the cultures, like you always have to be striving for that. I think there's so many things, but I think it must be a personality that I just always try.

I mean, we've talked about this, I always want to do the best. I want to always do my best. I'm always trying to do my best. I'm trying to optimize,

(...)

trying to, you know, do the right exercise. And you can't do it all. And you shouldn't do it all. And it's not healthy to do it all. Hmm.

So I think I've had to shift a lot and I'm still working on it. And I don't want to pick that back up.

interesting as you're saying that I mean, I, yes, you and I have different personalities. I also had years of adulthood before being the mother where I think I've always, I always like winning, I prefer to win, prefer to be on top. However,

(...)

yeah, if I deem that I'm like, not into the thing anymore, I'm kind of like, yeah, whatever, give it to someone who cares.(...) When I'm into it, I want to excel. And I want to like, you know, but then I just, you're talking about doing your best, striving, striving, striving for perfection.

(...)

And I would say I'm definitely a striver.

I love following my own curiosity, which is really how I've lived my adulthood. So I've

my curiosity and made those shifts outside of motherhood.

Mm hmm. That's true.

I wonder how much that time did make a difference.(...) But you've always been like that. Like you've been the curious.

(...)

don't, I don't know that you're more adventurous, but

see something and you're like, I'm gonna get that. Yep. It's just how you've always been. Yeah. And I'm like, I think I might want that. Let me like go through this diagram in my head of like, is that worth me wanting? Are my values actually in line with me wanting that thing?

Oh, so you pull in the like, is it ethically correct? Oh, all the time.

All the time. Yes.(...) Like I want this thing. Why do I want this thing? Is it because society's telling me that this thing is important? Is it because I just want this thing? Like, oh, yeah,

wild.

So I'm happy to start to let go of those things. Yeah. Also to trust my gut more. And kids just have to. Yep. And that's another thing you've always kind of done that.

Why lead with my gut to my detriment also.

(...)

So, you know, you gotta have some trade offs here.

(...)

That's true. That's true. So funny. It is. So you don't have a lot that you're letting go of.

Yeah. I got a lot of things that I'm like,

I'm not addressing you right now, I would say.

(...)

So maybe we should have this conversation again in a year. Well, that's why I'm saying

a very fresh mother here.

You know, that'd be interesting. I don't know if it would change much, but I can't be curious to see.

Okay. I can, I did make a list of specific things I'm letting go of. Oh, I kind of love that you don't, but sure. Share.

(...)

unrealistic expectations. I think we already talked about this, like having it all at one time. I actually really thought, so that's a, that's a mental shift that I'm, I guess, just working through. Here's an actual tangible thing I'm letting go of buying a single family home this year.

yeah, but you're not letting go of that forever. No, but, but we thought it would be like this year or even last year, we thought we would move to Wisconsin,(...) occupy one of the floors of our duplex investment property, and then, you know, be able to look around and figure out what home we wanted to buy to start our family in.

(...)

And instead, you know, I quit my job and then Kyle was out of work, which we knew was coming for longer than we thought. And so I'm grateful that we planned to buy a single family home, but also that financial goal when I quit my job, I mean, I kind of really kicked that, that new goal to the curb.

Oh, and you were literally having to use those resources for a little bit probably. Totally.

Yeah. Absolutely. Because we've had a pretty fun six months. So, yeah. And, you know, moving forward,

it's a huge hit to our income that I'm not working with. Like it's massive.

(...)

So,

yeah, literally letting go of that one right now.

(...)

Just because I felt like, I don't know, laughing with my son every day. Like, you know, you can't have your own room, Karen, but just kidding. He has his own room right now.

So, yeah, those are things that

oh, and then like old habits or identities that no longer fit.

God, my kitchen's messy all the time. And I got messy kitchen floors. And it drives me crazy. That's when you walk on it.

Oh my God. That's half the reason I wear slippers. Sometimes I keep my slippers on, even though I'm too hot.

I can't handle it some days.

wow. I like cool things.

(...) Maybe you should get a dog and then the dog can get a UTI, but your floors will be at least crumb free. You just exchange it for hair.

(...)

Trade offs. Not all in one time.

(...)

All right. Let's pivot. Things we're embracing(...) and that we want to stay. Like, what has matrescence given us that we are excited to embrace as our new selves?

of those. No, no, those do. I'm just sorting through them. Okay.

(...)

You go first.

(...)

no, I definitely have some. Mine, I think are just really tied to that type A, like the logistical ones of just having to learn to let go of clutter. Like there's just more important things than keeping my physical spaces the way that I want them to be. And there will be a time when I can do that again, but it's also okay to, especially in my marriage, let go of some of that because Kevin doesn't care and he don't, it's not healthy for me to be telling him to put his stuff away all the time. And he has gotten better about it, but I just do need to let go a little bit and that's okay.

think that's one of those things that I hope that I continue to hone throughout the rest of my life because it's hard for me, but I'm already doing much better. I'm going to be honest.

my curiosity has gotten stronger

through having kids and also that childlike joy that

not been

for me

I feel like since adolescence, frankly, that's just not my go-to and it's something that I have to reach for.(...) I think that's partly why I like backpacking so much. It's so much easier for me to access(...) joy and curiosity and calm and it just slows my brain down and lets me just take in life.

And having kids is a little bit like that. I mean, the lows are much lower than my feet hurt because I just walked 10 miles. I mean, I'm like rageful from children at least once a day,

they're always there to just remind me

how to be happy, frankly.

(...)

Not that my happiness is dependent on them, just that reminder of the small joys in life and creativity, which is not my strong suit. I mean, it is in some ways, but not in play.

(...)

It might just be play, like a reminder of

down, playing,

I'm not great at it yet. That's something I'm honestly just hoping to embrace more and learn how to do that better. Yeah.

Creativity is up there for me for sure. Not even creativity, but creating.

I'm kind of

my own personal pursuits outside of Kieran or even with him. I have a pretty extreme reaction to

I'm not building something or creating something, I'm kind of not interested. It's like I made a human. There's got to be some link there. I just made a human.(...) Funny. I want to make things. I'm tired of managing. I'm tired of managing, and I'm talking about professional interests too. I manage more

my life, in my house now than I ever have. I just want to be a part of creation right now, whether that's creating this podcast with you,

creating environments for friends and family in our home,(...) creating food.(...) I'm trying to kind of build up an arsenal of things that I create to give as gifts rather than just ...

(...)

I love this because it's like

it's like the palatable, exciting version of homemaking, but it's not homemaking.

(...)

Oh, funny. I'm identifying those feelings, and I just love the create, to make beauty, to create beauty. Because everything you're saying is beautiful.

You know, like your spinnies, your food, gifts for friends. It's all tied to beauty, it feels.

Yeah,

probably.

But it sounds so much ... it's like vibrant. It's live.

It feels vibrant. Like the impulse is vibrant.

that's cool. It is cool. The other thing that I

think in this journey, I feel so powerful. And it's been interesting being out of work for a full quarter now.

hoping you'll hold me accountable to this too.

I've not really had self-worth issues before in the past, and I don't now.

However, I've realized I tie so much of my self-esteem to capability.

I achieved XYZ today, slash this week, this month, this quarter. I had these goals. I executed against XYZ here were my results. That has been my brain for years.(...) And I never knew, I never really thought much about it. I never knew that at the end of the day, if I was having a bad day, I could still rely on, oh, multiple people value my skillset or my efforts so much that I get XYZ in my bank account. For whatever reason, that exchange was always validating. So I need to be working on,

guess not a soft skill, but my

right now. Because as a mom,

(...)

there's nothing like being a mom to a small child that makes you feel completely incapable of the smallest tasks.

Oh, yes. Even getting yourself cleansed. Totally.

So I'm losing validation for high capability on one hand, and I'm unable thus far to really build out

basic capabilities.(...) Yes. Well, there's no measurables.

There are no measurables. I want to try and build those into my week. Anyways, this is all a roundabout thing to say there's that on one flip side, which is really hard to embrace. I'm struggling to embrace it. However, I actually feel this innate deep power that didn't exist before giving birth.

(...)

And I think that that for me is a melding of my curiosity and conviction. I am deeply convicted about what is right for our family.

(...)

It's easy for me to have a gut instinct now. I always have them. And I can immediately say, "Kyle, I think we should do this. What do you think?" And I'm not confusing that with conviction. It's not conviction every time. We talk through it, and we,(...) pros and cons, all of that. However, when we land on something, I'm like, "This is it." We're doing it. And I've had people, me leaving the workforce, I think surprised a lot of my close friends. And they were like, "Hey,

are you going to ask me some basic questions?" And I'm able to be like, "Ask me whatever you want." And I've had a couple be like, "I don't mean to question your judgment. Very kind about it." And I'm like, "Literally, you could. You can question my... Yeah. I actually don't care. I'm so convicted in this choice.

unshakeable." I was listening to a podcast on classical education, and they were saying some people use it as like, "We're going to do classical education because it's going to be this tight-knit bubble, and they won't hear about other things, and they won't get the..." And this lady's point was, if you have a faith or a religion or a value system that doesn't stand up to the noise, it's not good.(...) So actually, you need all of that testing, like your friends, just checking in and making sure. Kindly. And if they're really... Yes. And if they're not well intentioned, yeah, that's bad. But if you can really be so convicted, even when people that know you so well are asking those questions, I mean, that just really is amazing. You know that it's what you should be doing, and it's worth your time, even if there aren't measurables.

It also comes with extreme sacrifice for me, because I had seven years to be really shallow as an adult and nurture my love of nice material things. And man, we are going... 2025 is going to be the year of winter for us. We are just leading the hibernate and build a foundation as a family finally, and

going to work really hard on his career shift. I'm going to work on a few of my projects. It is winter. It is hibernation. It's going to be incredibly difficult for me this upcoming year. And I'm a little bit excited about it. I think this year's going to hurt. Awesome. Yes, in a good way.

Yeah, Kelly loves

it. Kelly's here for it.

Oh, wait. A small instance of feeling conviction.(...) I didn't even think of it until right now.

Mom loves to roast me, not really roast me, but she's like...(...) She's made several comments about... So for listeners, sometimes

16-year-old, 17-year-old will put him in some pajamas at night, and then he wakes up, and he's still in the same pajamas. 72 hours later. No, but sometimes it's like 36.

Apparently, that's the most shocking thing to her about my evolution as a mother. She's like, "I can't believe you don't care what your kid is." And for me, I'm like... He's so well dressed and put

together. I love being pretty. I love nice things. I do.

I just want him to be comfortable.

(...)

And if he's comfortable and clean, like if he gets food on his outfit, we're changing the outfit. But if my kid goes a stretch of hours without getting oatmeal all over his... I'm not changing that outfit.

You go. That was a badge of honor. You wear that as long as you can keep it clean.

Yeah, I feel convicted in that choice.

(...) Okay,

(...)

so this is funny. You were talking about feeling powerful. Yes. I'm still working on body image stuff. I can't say it's great, but I'm getting better. I've started lifting. I'm loving that new feeling of building muscle instead of whatever.

(...)

Hello. Yes. I found this book at Barnes and Noble when purchasing another book.

the title was

Butts or something. And it was literally... It's like a coffee table book of butts.

tell me you bought it. No.

Wait, why?

We're talking art butts, like sculpture butts.

(...)

That's so funny.

(...)

And at first, I haven't stopped thinking about it because it's so funny, but I flipped through it a little bit. And lately, I've just been like...

There were so many female butts, and it honestly encompasses all of the birthing areas, right? Like hips, belly, thighs.

(...)

And they were so beautiful. At first, it was funny, but I really just have all these images scorched in my head of these famous butts that people have chosen to make art out of. And I am like, my butt kind of looks like that butt.

I'm just going to go back 200 years or however long ago it took to have peasant birthing hips.(...) And someone would have made art out of my butt.

I feel powerful.

I feel this culture.

(...)

Wait, is this one of our new creation projects? My butt? Please no. Yeah, I'm thinking like a cat. Yeah, the many... I feel like we do a cast.

(...)

Yeah, the many... A calendar of mom

I think we hang up now. Yeah, I think that's what we needed. Yeah. Wow.

(...)

I love it.

(...) Wow. Do you have anything else to add? Because I'm...

Like what up? Do we get through your empowerment

Oh, you know what we didn't talk about is what we want to regain. Like what are the things in the house?

are the things like you buying a single family home or personality things that we're happy to let go of now and we want to regain in the future? One of them for me right now is frankly nutrition. Oh, what? I'm shook. Really? Not in a... Like I still want to be feeding my body nutrients. Okay. But I'm not going to freaking diet for a while. You know, I'm not going to like stop eating carbs. I'm not going to stop eating chocolate because frankly, my day is so beautifully difficult right now. Yeah. That I don't have extra emotional

like any extra emotion or perseverance to give to that.

Were you dieting?(...) Oh, I have. Like I didn't knew him after Charlie. I got to use a bad word, super skinny. You did. I was concerned though. Oh, I loved how I felt. I loved how I looked, but it's not worth it. I needed it then. I don't need it now. I just like, it's one of those things like Kevin jokingly was talking about himself and he's like, well, they say six packs are made in the kitchen. And I was like, yeah, I really don't need that. But I think I will later.

frankly,

I'm going to have a nice glass of wine, chocolate, like just those extras that are not easy for me to cut out right now and give me a lot of joy.(...) I'm just embracing, but I am excited for the future

when it will be easier to let those things go again. If I choose. If you choose.

Nice.

(...)

Yeah. Thanks.

I think the other one for me would just be to be more ambitious with what I really want a career to look like, because I did like when I was working full time. I liked a lot about it. Like exactly what you were saying, the measurables, the external validation,(...)

I created this, it went really well. It was my brainchild. All of those things were so fun.

So I'm excited for that again. And I'm doing some of it now, which is great, but I can't devote everything to that. And that's how I want it right now. And that's okay, even if it's hard. Yeah.

And then I think the last one for me is really investing in our marriage.(...) And I, I know we need to start that now and we're really trying to do that,

there's only so much time you can give each other right now. Sure. So like Kevin and I have never done a big trip together because we got married during COVID and then had a baby right away. Yeah. So like we keep talking about going to Europe together and like Kevin's really excited to go to a different couple different countries and like, I can't wait for that and it just won't happen for a while. Yeah.

(...) Yeah.(...) What about you? So similar. So really? Yeah. You're talking about the career and the ambition and I fully expect to be working.

when we have kids who are school aged, I like work. I also wish I could like,

what you're going to have to watch the YouTube back. Cause your face right there. I fully expect to be working. It was intense, man.

I think I'm, I'm needing to look forward to that right now.

(...)

I think it's a really big

piece of like hope for me if I'm being honest. Okay. I also

I think it's important to

out that it's okay to want to be an economic contributor.

(...)

Like I get feelings of freedom and safety, both of those things. And I like being able to provide freedom and safety for people that I like in terms of knowing my value as an economic contributor.

So even like in a caretaking role, you know, like for parents.

Yeah. So I want to regain that. Obviously the house,(...) kicking that can down the road for a little bit, but that's another one single family home.

and

marriage. I think like I really thought this trip was going to be

good connecting point for Kyle and me. And it's been kind of the opposite, which frankly, I don't know if it's even about the trip. There are a lot of external stressors in our life right now that, um,

possibly had we stayed home, you know, it would have been more disconnection. But it's unusual for us. So I'm excited to

more time to devote to our marriage as well.

I think we're, you and I are pretty aligned on those. That's really funny. Yeah. Well, and it makes a lot of sense. I'm curious for our listeners,(...)

their answers to all these questions would be.

(...) Yes. Because our, our early conversation was so different.

So that's so interesting that the things that we still hope to regain very much the same. And I wonder, yeah, how common that is. I also would love to hear what people are letting go of because I think there are probably more things I need to let go of. But look at me, I'm like optimizing again. I'm like, okay, what is she letting go of? I should do that too. Oh my God.(...) But that's the biggest part that I think motherhood is so good for me is letting go. So actually I am looking for inspo, like things that really don't matter. And that's okay. And honestly, permanently,

permanently let go of. Okay. Listeners.

Okay. Listeners. I love to hear it. Kelly needs to know what are you letting go of?

What are you letting go of? What are you excited to regain? Because I do think that's just such a positive exercise for moms because it's so healthy to say this is where I'm at right now. And this is what I can't wait for in the future. That's great. Yeah.

Yeah. So text us in, on Apple podcasts, as well as Spotify, there's a little text us line right above the episode description. You can hit that and then send us your thoughts.(...) We can't actually text you back or respond. But it's anonymous. It's anonymous. Yeah. So you can also

us on social at the real mom hub on Instagram. TikTok. Is that getting banned? I don't know. Who knows?

we have one for now. And then you can also email us at it's the real mom hub at email.com.

(...) Sure is. Well, this was fun. This is so fun plans tonight. Sure do. Yeah. Yay. It's Friday. I think we're making homemade pizza and then I might go to bed early.

Do it. I think we're grilling some bronzino, doing a little Mediterranean feast, which is a type of fish case you didn't know. Yeah. I like to do adulthood. We like to do them whole on the grill. Yum.

So we are not going to be going to bed early.(...) Life is good. Life is good, man. Yay.

Well, love you. Love you. Bye. Bye.

(...)