Episode 23: The One for Moms Facing Unexpected Motherhood Journeys with Emily Cihlar

What happens when life rewrites your motherhood story? Meet Emily Cihlar, a mom who once dreamed of having 8 children until an emergency hysterectomy after her third delivery changed everything. In this emotional yet uplifting conversation, Emily shares her ongoing identity journey six years later, why travel became her family's priority, and the surprising lessons her breastfeeding experience taught her about judgment and motherhood solidarity.

Main Topics & Discussion

When Motherhood Dreams Change Overnight Can you rebuild your identity when motherhood doesn't follow your plan? Emily takes us through her journey from planning a large family to waking up from emergency surgery to learn she'd had a hysterectomy after her third delivery. She reveals the raw emotions, grief process, and ongoing identity shift she's navigated for six years since that life-altering moment. With remarkable candor, Emily shares how she's reconciled her original vision of motherhood with her new reality, offering hope to anyone facing an unexpected limitation in their parenting journey.

Making Travel a Family Priority Is travel with kids worth the extra effort? Emily enthusiastically says yes! She explains why exploring new places became especially meaningful after her family size was unexpectedly finalized, and how travel experiences have created powerful bonds with her three children. Emily offers practical insight into balancing adventure with everyday life and making meaningful memories regardless of your circumstances. Her philosophy on embracing joy and adventure despite life's disappointments provides inspiration for any family looking to create connection through shared experiences.

Beyond Judgment: Every Mom's Unique Journey Why do we feel judged for our motherhood choices? Emily candidly discusses her breastfeeding experience and the surprising criticism she faced. She reveals how this challenge ultimately transformed into a powerful revelation: every mother has her own unique story, and we're all simply doing our best with the tools we have. With authenticity and humor, Emily discusses how facing her own motherhood challenges gave her deeper compassion for other moms, reminding us that behind every parenting choice is a personal journey worthy of respect and understanding.

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

Cool. I am, I'm in my classroom. Oh, nice. It's cute, I like the background. Thanks. That's me, right there. Oh yeah, it is. There's the other Jane.

(...)

The hair.

(...)

The hair is so good. Did you draw that yourself?

My six year old did. Oh.

(...)

so Emily O'Leary is dying of a cold right now.

Yeah, honestly, I think it's man flu.

(...)

Like I think of when I watch men get sick, like men in my life, you know, and I'm like, God, how are you this sick from a cold? Like, are you for real right now? You don't have a fever, you're not dying. That's how I'm behaving right now, so. I was gonna say, but are you whipping

like a man you are, okay.

I am.(...) I'm like, my whole body hurts right now. I'm like, do I have COVID?

I don't know. I got my period this morning, so I'm killing it as well. Yay.

Emily, you are leading this charge.(...) Happy Valentine's Day, Kelly. Yes, happy Valentine's Day.

(...)

Oh, well, thank you for being here. I always forget to do this. This is Emily Siler as our guest today, not to be confused with prior Emilys on the podcast.(...) Yep.

(...) So wait, I have a question. Do you know how you got your name?

I do.

(...)

Do you know how you got yours? Yes, I do. I should have asked Emily Swanson. I didn't realize we were gonna have so many Emilys on this podcast.

Am I the second?

You're the second Emily.

(...)

So my name came from my mother's, are you ready? My mother's favorite soap opera character.

(...)

I love that. Get out. Who was it?

Her name was Emily.

But like what show?

Guiding Light.

Okay, unfamiliar.

What I know.

(...)

That's awesome. As the world turns, my mom watched The Young and the Restless religiously

(...)

for decades.

(...)

For decades, and she doesn't watch it anymore. But I think she came from Guiding Light. She was Emily. She was very blonde, very tall and thin, and I am none of those things. But here I am, I'm an Emily.

I love it.

Where's your name from?

I don't know. I mean, apparently. No, mom and dad said that they didn't know anyone named Emily.

(...)

Like they just thought it was a really pretty name. And they were like, yeah, we actually didn't know any Emilys. And I'm just like,(...) I'm so confused. And that's what probably is there's a thousand of them. Also my parents are incredibly social, like always have been.(...) And like when I say social, they have friends spanning so many different generations and decades, and that has been true as long as I have been sentient. So really confused. I'm like, were you living under a rock during this time? Unclear?

So funny. Well, I was named after a cat, so. No, they refuted that. But think about the timing. Baba and Grandpa had a barn cat named Callie. Not even like a pet cat, a barn cat. I know.

Before I was born. No, they did. Yeah, she was a Calico cat. I think she was Baba's favorite.

My childhood cat was a Calico. And her name was Callie.

(...)

I'm not kidding.

(...) Okay, I feel a little more love now.

(...)

She was a great cat. I tell Caroline, I told her all my secrets and she kept them on. Oh,

that's so cute. She was the best.(...) Okay, speaking of Caroline, I guess we could start like doing this podcast.(...) You, Emily Seiler, just give us a little like, this is my life, this is my family, this is what I do.

What does a normal Wednesday look like for you?

A normal Wednesday. Well, Wednesdays are my day off, so yippee-skippee.

Nice.

Although, does anybody ever really have a day off because there's still

gazillion things to do.

(...)

And I currently have three jobs, so that's for the birds. Oh.

(...)

And I have three kids. So here's who I am. So I am married. I'm at 33. I have three little kids. We miscarried twice. So the kids are very proud to tell you we have five kids in our family.

(...)

But I have a 10-year-old daughter, a nine-year-old son, he just had a birthday last week, and a six-year-old daughter.

(...)

I'm a music teacher at the school where my kids go at St. Mary's. And I teach 4K through eighth grade general music and choirs, which I never thought I would do. Isn't that funny? My passion has always been higher-level choral music.

(...)

And

don't know. There have been lots of weird twists and turns, and none of it is what I expected. And I got the opportunity to teach here this year, and I knew it would be better than last year. And so I took it.

(...)

I'm a pianist. I'm the accompanist for the Wasselaer Choir, which is an adult auditioned group in the Midwest of Wisconsin. Central Wisconsin, not the Midwest. Central Wisconsin.

which I love. And I'm also the accompanist for the Molesmee School District. So that's my alma mater from my childhood.

(...)

The director there and I are long-time friends, and I have played there for a long time. So I accompany for them

So it's very seasonal, so it works to keep that while I'm doing St. Mary's.

what I do.

Yeah, just lots of music making, giving me time all day.

Yeah, lots of scrappy, random places of music making.

Love it. Love it, yeah.

I would like to know, as a fresh mom, if you can go back a decade or so, if there was an experience or a realization that just totally shook you. So keep my surprise.

Oh,

(...)

I'm eating popcorn.

(...)

I don't know if it was because of my experience of becoming a young mom, but it definitely happened around the time when my kids were being born.

Right, with your first baby, you're such a brand new mom. And all of a sudden, you have to make all these choices.(...) And one of my very good friends laughs and her line is always, "I'm looking around for an adultier adult." And then you realize, "Oh shit, it's me."

(...)

(Laughing)

I was thinking about my experience with Caroline, and number one, how different it was from my second and third babies, my first from my second and third.

One of the things that was hardest,

(...)

like a big fat growing pain when I had my first baby, was realizing how strong people's opinions are about things. Oh, yeah. People have big thoughts.

(...)

People have big thoughts. And then all of a sudden, it was like,

they wanna know what I think. I've never done this before.

I really have to do some soul searching. And I was reading one of your, like one of the prep questions.

like your values, your values and your,

you know, your image as a professional, and your image as a person, and do any of those things change? Like would the current you recognize the old you? That was the question I was reading.

And okay, so I'm a brand new mom.

I knew what I wanted to do as far as be a teacher. And I knew when I wanted to get married, and then I didn't do what I said I was gonna do. And I knew I wanted to be a teacher, and then I didn't do what I said I was always gonna do. And I had a baby and I thought,

(...)

okay, I have to make these huge decisions, and people have strong opinions, and

do I do? And it's really gonna change who I am. And the biggest thing I thought about this morning when I was thinking about you guys was nursing.

So this is a really interesting story.

(...)

My mom did not nurse my sisters and I. She grew up very wealthy,

and then married my dad who was

poor. He was one of 10 siblings.

His dad was a coal miner, so my grandpa was a coal miner, and my mom, or my mom, my grandma, his mom stayed home with 10 kids, and they made him eat.

(...)

They would take, my dad just told me last week, they would take baths in the creek down from their house. I mean, they just had nothing. And they married each other, my mom and dad.(...) And it was very difficult for my mom.

And we have since learned,(...) like when I had my babies and I was nursing, my mom was so uncomfortable, and it was so hurtful. She was very rude and very uncomfortable around me nursing.(...) And

was really hard. And I'm like, I need someone to tell me how to do this, and I need someone's support.

Come to find out,

was seen as a status symbol if you could afford formula. Oh, wow.

(...)

Isn't that wild? It was,

showed that they could afford

that they had money. So they chose to formula feed.(...) And

I don't know, it was just a huge, it had a huge impact on me as I'm looking for support and people have big opinions, but you don't necessarily know the stories behind

(...)

their choices and their opinions.

The big revelation I had, okay, all of that to say, long story long, all of that to say is the big revelation I had around the time when my kids were born is,

(...)

it was like this big mindset shift to assume the best in other people.

(...)

Oh.

Like someone would have this gigantic opinion very contrary to what I was doing. And my old self would be,(...) I mean, I would waste, seriously, I would waste so much energy,

(...)

like going around and around and around and around and around in my head, like, why the hell did she say that? Does she think I'm a bad mom? Why would she do it that way? Doesn't she know that I do it this way because of this? She must not be a good mom because she's doing it. It's like,(...) blah! It just round and round and round and round. And all of a sudden, it was like, you know, did she say it that way because she's mad at me for what I said last week? Okay, stop. The new me says stop.

Assume the best

her opinions about my opinions or whatever, you know, about what she's saying about what I'm doing.

(...)

And oh my gosh,

the grief it saves.(...) That feels like-- Has to be freeing. Yes, that's the revelation that I feel like I had with kids is everybody makes the best choice they can make in the moment with what they have. And there's stories behind it and you just don't know.

And they're also likely not even thinking about you, truly, they're having a reaction to their experience of you, but the reaction is coming from their stories that they tell themselves, their experiences.

(...) Am I wild?

It just is. And I'm still working on it. Like I know that to be true. And I think you and I probably had conversations about this last year, but it's still a work in progress for me because I will have a gut reaction. Like what, you know, and yeah, it's hard.

It is hard. I'm so fascinated by your choice to breastfeed.

(...)

When it honestly, I mean, my breastfeeding journey I think was pretty standard, not difficult. Like we had a little tongue tie to fix and then I wouldn't say it was perfect, but it was fine, workable, no major problems.

Did it hurt like a son of a gun?

Totally, the first six weeks. Awful, awful, awful, awful, awful. But that's normal. Again, my point is normal breastfeeding.

(...)

Oh God, no, it's so freaking hard. No, so much work to breastfeed. Get out of here. Yeah, that's never easy. Even now, like I'm still sore sometimes, especially if he's cluster feeding, whatever.

(...)

So I'm curious, you didn't have that in your background, what made you A, choose that, and then B, have the conviction to, you know, dig a little deeper in yourself and gain this realization that, you know, it really, you needed to assume the best about your mom, even like how powerful is that?

I mean, this is such a lame answer.

I just keep thinking it just felt so logical.

(...) Yeah, no, why is that lame? It's so-- Simple. Sometimes the best things are simple.

Right, I don't know.

Our bodies are built for this.

Yep,

And so Emily,

I had two home births, I don't know if you know. I didn't know that. Oh, let's go, okay.

(...)

Buckle up, because we could talk about that for a long time, it's my favorite. Kelly and I are both junkies. I listened to your episode where you are not a junkie. So that makes me laugh,

I don't know, I've always been crunchy. And so I am a black sheep in my family. My mom and two of my sisters are in the medical field and I am a teacher and a musician and I've always had terrible anxiety in hospitals. So right, why would you leave your comfy place? I'm like, I don't wanna go to a hospital if I don't have to go to a hospital. I wanna stay home and eat what I wanna eat and be in my pajamas for the love of Pete. My husband and I played cards till I was five centimeters with my son's labor.

(...)

Amazing. This is not an emergency, it's not in here. I mean, canopy, yep, I know that pretty well. But it's not inherently an emergency. And I just, the more I learned about

and their model of care and their approach and then I met our midwives.

A, women deserve this. Women deserve care as caring and personalized and calm as these wonderful, fabulous women are.

And B, why would you want anything else? I don't know.

we could go down the rabbit hole a really long ways.

of a gun, these people are gonna know my name. These midwives in my house are gonna know my name rather than me being a name on a chart that nobody gives a rip about. I don't remember why we're talking about this.

(...) So you were saying black sheep of the family because you chose to nurse, even though that's not what your family did. And then you also chose to have two home births, even though you have like an OBGYN sister. I do.

So Emily, I'll tell you out, Emily O'Leary.(...) So I had two home births and then with our third baby,

(...)

my water broke and I never went into labor.

(...)

And we were trying all the things, all the things. And I never went into labor. And I had to go into the hospital to be induced and I was pissed, I was so pissed. I cried the whole way to the hospital. And that's like the beans of the story. It ended up so much worse. So I went to the hospital, had a terrible induction.

They actually gave me an overdose of Pitocin because it wasn't working. And I hemorrhaged postpartum and they could not stop my hemorrhage. And took me into surgery and tried multiple things to stop the bleeding and couldn't and had to do it as direct to me to save my life.

And I was like, oh my goodness.

I can't imagine.

(...)

That was life-changing for you in a lot of ways, right? But when you were saying like, how does your life look like now compared to what you thought it was, that's what I thought of for you, just knowing you. Because you wanted a bazillion kids, right? And like, what are some of those things,

(...)

you know, you got married younger than you thought. Like what are some of those things that you just thought would be different?

All of them.

(...)

I did, I got married the day before I turned 20. What's up? Whoa. My husband and I met and quickly figured out that we wanted to get married. But I told him, I said, I want to marry you. And I have never wanted to be married before I was done with undergrad. So I don't want to get married yet. And the joke is that I looked at him again. And then I said, oh, okay, they're fine.

(...)

(Laughing)

So anyways, so we did.

Let's go.

Right? Let's just freaking go, why are we waiting?

I did, I got

married really young and then we wanted a big family. We wanted eight kids.

Wow, eight, you'd put a number on it.

Yeah.(...) And it wouldn't have to be eight. We used to laugh initially when someone asked me.(...) I will always remember the first time someone asked me, I said six.(...) And then out loud, I had this whole conversation with myself being like, well, why is it just six? Why not eight?

(...)

And I have, so Mark has a cousin and his cousin's wife that are married. They have six kids. Is Mark your husband?

Mark is my husband. So Mark's cousin and his wife have six kids. And she's hilarious because she gets questions all the time. Like, don't you know what causes that? And her favorite thing to say is, yeah, and we're really good at it.

(...)

(Laughing)

So I was like, I was all excited and we're Catholic and the idea of this big, beautiful,(...) boisterous, loving, polite, wonderful, faithful Catholic family. It's like, oh, this is us. Like we are ready.(...) No, we're really not, because who's ever ready? But like, this is what we're gonna do, right? We're gonna homeschool. We're gonna just have this big, wonderful family. And I have a ton of extended family. So growing up, I'm like, that's what I want for my kids. I want tons of cousins and brothers and sisters. And my dad is one of 10. And I just thought there's so many beautiful things that you can't learn if you don't have a big family, right? All of the constant being around people, but giving them space and sharing and all of the things. I don't know. I just had this beautiful image in my head of what our gigantic Catholic family would be like.

And then Jane was born and we aren't able to have more kids.(...) And you guys, it's been really hard.(...) There are so many,

there are so many groups

had, dreams that I had for myself that I fit into before Jane was born that I no longer feel I fit into.

(...)

And it's been a lot of, okay, now who am I?

(...)

Now what do I do? Because I feel like I walk around with this. I had a hysterectomy in bold letters on my forehead.

Who am I outside of that? That's been really hard.(...)

just think fertility is so

difficult than I was taught to believe

(...)

As a teenager, my mom was like, don't look at anybody or you're gonna get pregnant.(...) Like, don't like put a pet, okay, you guys are gonna love this. My mom's thing was squeeze a penny between your knees.

Hello. We'll like to keep them so locked.

That's funny. Whoa, that is funny.

It's a joke, but that's what she got. That's what she grew up getting told is like, go on a date, but hold the penny between your knees. So I just had this wild,

now it's wild. I didn't think it was wild then. I had this like fervent idea that immediately, as soon as a woman wanted to, she wouldn't be pregnant.

I think a lot of us holds that actually. I mean, going back to sex ed in public school, it's like,

you see a condom on a banana and it's just like the fear of God is drilled into you. And now we're in a fertility crisis actually as a country in a lot of ways.

(...)

So many women that I know personally just really struggle. It's honestly more normal than not, anecdotally in my circle at least. Me too. And I had no clue.

And I had no clue.

Yeah.

And I did not ever expect to be

that group.

So what did you do? Like, what did that process look like or is it looking like probably still to heal from that and find yourself? That's a big question.

It is huge, you guys.

Took me until Jane was four to go see a counselor. I was so angry for such a long time. And I still get angry, not nearly as much. Like, it just doesn't feel like me.

(...)

Wow.(...) You know, it does not sound like it happened to me because, for lots of reasons, right? But when Jane was born and I hemorrhaged and I went into surgery, they told me that it was going to be a D&C. And the doctor said, you know, they're very common. It's probably because you have retained placenta that you're still bleeding. You'll be out in half an hour. It's very routine.

(...)

Minimally evasive, not a big deal. And I went into surgery and they couldn't even do the D&C because of how much I was bleeding.

Oh.

(...)

And so that's what I went in thinking was going to happen. And then to come out and be hit with this gigantic news.

I can't say I've,

that I'm done working through it and figuring out who I am now.

(...)

I still feel like I don't know. I still feel very pulled in lots of directions.

I still feel like our dinner table should have more people at it.

(...)

Wow.

(...)

It has to be a really private and unique sense of grief in our country specifically too. I'm thinking about this.

(...)

A lot of people are choosing to elect not to have kids anymore. That's becoming more and more common. And three is actually a lot of kids by most people standard in this country.

(...)

And I mean, Callie and I grew up with(...) a lot of very large families around us. So I think,

(...)

we can picture what those dinner tables look like. I think probably the average American wouldn't be able to.

(...)

So I can understand hearing you say this, like it is resonating with me. And I would imagine that there are a lot of people around you where they probably don't understand what you're saying even.(...) So you have this huge identity shift. These dreams that you thought you would come true are no longer. And how do you explain,(...) oh, my family's wildly different than I thought, but you still have three kids. People are probably saying, but look at your big family, not even understanding the scope of what could be.

I'm just thinking about culturally like what that means for you.

(...)

It's gotta be really tough.

(...)

Yeah, it is tough.

we're focused around like matrices, this finding yourself, this shifting identity after motherhood, yours is after Jane, so unique.

Just in the minority. And it sounds like it will be just an ongoing journey for you for years.

(...)

I'm curious if you felt like your metressence, your original metressence after the first two

ended, but if you had a final chapter there where you thought, okay,(...) I'm good at centering myself. I know who I am again. I know who I am as a mom. I'm wondering if you had any of that before Jane came.

Absolutely, like after my second baby where I still thought I was gonna have more kids and

knew what I would do, absolutely. We were on the path to homeschooling. We had been homeschooling for just a couple of years. Our kids were little at that point, but that was sort of the,

(...)

that was the group of people that we surrounded ourselves with.

We were definitely in a rhythm of, Mark was working outside of our house and I was home with the kids and we, it was beautiful. We loved it.

You have to like refigure it out with every brand new baby, right? But I feel like we had to figure it out. We knew who we were and what we were gonna do. And then after Jane was born,

I mean, you guys, I said for years, I don't know who I am anymore. That December when she was, so she was born at the end of November and I'm a musician. So for December, my whole month is music. I did not do any of the music that I typically do that December, not only because I had a newborn, but I could have done a lot of it in a typical year, typical birth, but I lost so much blood that I had no endurance. Yeah.

Sounds like it was kind of cataclysmic versus after your first.

Oh gosh, yeah, yeah, without a doubt.

These are the things we just don't talk about

and thank you so much for sharing. Oh, you're welcome. That's a lot to put out there and it's a lot for me to hold having just met you. Like, oh my gosh, this woman, this family. So thank you for sharing. I'm sure there are a lot of people who need to hear it. It's unique and I hope that some women listening feel less alone.

Transcription Pending

(...)

so I feel like I've done a lot of good work

with my counselor,

where it doesn't feel like it's the only part of who I am anymore.

I focus on it,

(...)

I can feel that way again, that it's as big and horrible and all-encompassing as I used to feel like it is. I don't feel that way anymore because I work really hard not to.

(...)

But it felt for a really long time, like if I'm not

and upset about this, then it doesn't matter. And that's the farthest thing from the truth. So I want people to know this matters to me.

(...)

Can you think of people who've been a soft place for you to land with this issue, or people who have responded in a way that made you feel supported, feel seen, gave you something positive from the interaction?

Oh gosh, yeah.

I think it always came down to someone saying, it's not right.(...) I'm sorry, it's not supposed to be this way.

would get really upset with Mark for a really long time, because his phrase in his pocket that he would always come back with is, Emily, we can't do anything about it. We can't change it. We can't change it. I was like, I know we can't change it. That doesn't make me feel any better.

(...)

But

hate to say he was right.

(...)

Eventually it was like, that's the truth of it. Why, again, spend so much energy and so much stress going round and round and round and round and round and round and round about why this happened.

I'm just thinking about you and tell me if I'm wrong, but you just love to nurture and love, especially on little people. That's just, you see a baby and your whole face lights up.(...) Have you always been like that? Yeah. Okay, so that's you and you want all these kids(...) and then you can't have any more biologically.

(...)

I wonder if that's a big part of your identity crisis

(...)

is just that you felt like you couldn't nurture as many as you want. You just had all this nurturing to give and where does it go now? I still feel that way.(...) So has teaching helped with that?

Probably. I

(...)

I don't know, that's interesting.

I was just thinking at looking at your blackboard while you were saying that. Like you have all these little humans now. Yeah.

(...)

It's an interesting thing.

(...)

Yeah.

(...) Keep us posted. I wanna know

reoccurring wins, joys. Let's pick this baby up because we just waited in some hard and really important things.

(...)

But what brings you joy? What are some of your biggest wins as a mom?

Well, you're thinking how about this spring you joy that I'm literally wearing like a finger condom. Okay, I was

staring at it this whole time being like, what is she well?

(...)

Yeah, what do you have going on?

I just like had a paper cut from a cardboard box. So it's like a bad paper cut. Oh, sick boy. Yeah, but my fingers have just been bleeding all winter. So I finally just bought these straight up and it doesn't help that it's literally my bird has a finger condom on it.

(...)

I've been watching it. I'm

does she need to cook for the masses? I don't understand.

It's just a cut and I'm tired of it opening. All right.

(...)

It's off my chest. I am wearing a finger condom. You could not edit that out.

(...) Yeah, it's horrible. Well, post-evisional. I've not been able to stop staring at it. So I mean like sincerely thank you for clearing me out. You're welcome. I've been resisting the urge to text you on the side and be like, hold on.

I know the conversation was too serious for me to like break into that.

Okay,

Okay, joys and wins. I get a kick out of hearing my kids repeat things to each other that I've taught them. Oh, that's funny. When my Caroline mother is her brother and sister and part of me is like,

(...)

oh my God, I'm creating a monster. The other part of me is like, yes.(...) Tell your brother to push in his chair or whatever it is, I don't know.

(...)

We are big, big readers. This is really silly. I don't know. We're big readers in our family. And my third grader has the most AR points in the whole school.

(...)

What

So when you say your whole family are readers, what does that look like? Is it like family reading time? Is it you and your husband reading to the kids separately? Like what do you mean? Like family culture wise, what does that look like? There are books all over the place. I love it.

We don't have enough bookshelves. Actually, Kelly, you should see. We're about to get new bookshelves. I can't wait.

(...)

We just, we love to read. Frequent trips to the library. I used to do lots of reading out loud.

(...)

We're reading "The Secret Garden" out loud right now. Oh, love that one. It was so good.

So good.

Mary just has Dickon in the garden for the first time and they haven't met Colin yet and I cannot wait because my kids are gonna.

(...)

Totally.

(...) Yeah, Caroline thinks there's a romance coming.

(...)

Speaking of having created a mouse.

Okay, I haven't read that book in a long time, but aren't they like 10?

(...) Oh yeah, there's no romance. My daughter is just a lover.

Oh,(...) that's incredible.(...) Okay, so you love the reading.

I love to read aloud. The mother is loved to read to themselves.

Do you do the voices or just? Oh yeah. Nice. Well, you gotta. Well, I don't know, a lot of people don't.

Yeah, I don't understand that.

Okay, well, I think a lot of people feel incapable. So you innately just have the gift of, okay.

I get stressed. I'm like, that was the stupidest thing I've ever done after I do it and I'm like, no more of that.

(...)

(Laughing)

Okay, so Kelly's one of those people. Things I never knew are

right. Actually, I'm just not good at it. I'm not good at it. Like, so people are so good at it. I hear myself and I'm like, that was so stupid.

Too self-critical. Like also your kids, like they care, like come on.

(...) Well, when Kevin's really good at it. Oh.

(...)

I mean, he's just like way more creative. Okay, sorry, back to you.

(Laughing)

I'm gonna be watching now. And except I really kid you books. Really kid you books, wow, my brain.

You're thriving. We're thriving today. What makes you feel valued or beautiful as a woman? Oh.

I just got blindsided. I don't know.

(...)

As I eat my popcorn. Eat that popcorn and think about it.

Do you wanna circle back? Cause I have another question. Okay, get that percolate and put it on the back burner. Let's multitask. I'm gonna want you to answer that.

(...)

But I also wanna know, we've talked a lot about you shifting identity after Jane and the things that you lack or the things you felt disappeared or weren't yours to own anymore.(...) I wanna know throughout this whole journey of motherhood,

what new traits you have you didn't have before?

Anxiety and impatience.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...)

Checks out. Do you wanna say more?

Right, there's some real content for you.

(...)

So that makes me think one of the healing things for me after Jane's birth,

in some of the work that I did with my counselor, one of the things about

reality for us that has been healing for me and I hope will continue to be beautiful(...) is the fact that I can teach now.

And I have,

(...)

it's not just that I have the time to do things I didn't expect to be able to do,(...) but I do, right? I

now the accompanist for the Wasselaer Choir which maybe I would have done had we had eight kids maybe I wouldn't have been able to do it.(...) But it's healing to me. And so this isn't necessarily a trait that I've had now that I have kids, but kind of back to Jane, it's healing for me

gives me hope that

are other ways I can give

gifts back to God that I wouldn't have been able to do had I gotten what I wanted.(...) Sure. Isn't that interesting?

And to a whole community.

(...)

to pour myself into other places. I don't know.

You are giving yourself to a lot of people.

I just thought of this.(...) Emily Seiler is the one that introduced me to the song, The Mother, that Brandy Carlisle song. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think we were just sitting in our office when we talked together for a year, just like crying in the office listening to The Mother.

(...)

I mean, the great Brandy hits on Any Day, but that song,

(...)

yep. So good. I went to see her in concert at the Big Top Chautauqua up in Bayfield and it poured and thunder stormed so badly and it was amazing.

Was it an outdoor venue?

Oh, yeah.

Okay, okay. I mean, honestly, mine made it better.

Like I'm like superior.

And then I went to go see Pink with my mom and that was a whole nother thing. Just as great.

(...) Oh my gosh. I've never been so drunk in my life.(...) I mean, that's the place to do it. Pink, the 90s, let's go. Early 2000s.

Yeah, I'm gonna do so much fun. Okay, you

have continued to do a lot of traveling.

is that one of those things that just like really helps you feel connected to yourself or what's the, you know, what is,(...) how do you find the motivation? How do you continue to make that a priority with small kids?

I just laughed because how do I find the motivation? Cause my life is crazy. Get me out of here.

(...)

I do, I love to travel. So I actually credit that one to my mom and dad because we took a lot of road trips when I was a kid.

My dad's family is all from Pennsylvania.(...) And so that was our big summer trip as a kid was we road tripped to see my grandma and my cousins.

And so I love road trips. Yeah, we do travel a lot. Kelly, I remember you and I having a conversation where I was like, we don't go that many places. And she were like, you're going here in March and then you have to go there and you've got this trip planned in April. Yes, you do go a lot of places.

(...) Okay, so my question is you just said, oh, my life's crazy. That's why I have to travel. I recently took a trip. It was last month with my husband and my single child. I have one 18 month old, one baby. And it was the first trip we took where he's fun. He's in a fun phase.(...) I was like, oh my God, we're never gonna have a vacation again until they're like in high school. It will never be a vacation. It will just be more work in a different place. So tell me.

Can I give you a mindset shift?

Yes, this is what I'm asking for. Not there first.

Do not call it a vacation. Call it a trip.(...) Okay, that's what Kyle said.

(...)

Unless you go on with just you and your husband, it's not a vacation. Okay, but you do that too. Because they did a lot of work.

But you do that too. I actually think like when we talked together that year, you went on more trips with just you and Mark. And that's what I'm most impressed about.

It's getting harder. I just went, okay, here I am to tell you you're right. I was in Alabama last week for five days.(...) Yes, beautiful.

(...)

I can't

lie.(...) So my mom and dad are brand new snowbirds and my mom invited my sisters and I to come to Alabama for a week. And I'm the only one who took her up on it. I was like, my January was crap because I had three kidney stones the size of Texas and had to have surgery to have them removed. So am I gonna come down

to Alabama in February? Yes, I am.

But what's getting hard is I went alone because had Mark and I gone, we'd have to find someone to watch the kids who can get them to school.

(...) Yeah.

Yeah. That is not easy. Just go on trips when they're anybody and take them with you. Is it a damn lot of work? Yep.(...) It's not a vacation. It's a trip.

So what does the trip do to you? Like what does it do to your brain that you like? Because if you're taking the work and you're moving the work somewhere else or it might be more work because it's new, what's the upside?

(...)

We're looking for some motivation. She's just crazy. We don't know.

(...)

terrible answer. I don't know.

(...)

just get restless? Do you have like restless leg syndrome? You just gotta go. I mean, I know when I come back from a new environment, my perspective is different than my current life. And that is always a positive.

(...)

I mean, if it was a really hard... I try to teach my kids,

it's so much fun to go and experience new things, but doesn't that make...

(...)

Hopefully I'm instilling in them, it's so good to come home. Like what a gift that we have this to come home to.

And I can't say I'd be lying if I said that was the purpose of us traveling. I don't know. I just...

You just love it so you do it.

Yeah.

(...)

Good answer. That's very helpful. Thanks, Callie. No, it's not.

Thanks, Callie.

it's really funny because I definitely am too busy. Too much going on, but I do it to myself.

(...)

And I can't seem to stop.

(...)

So I just love it. I don't know. I think, yeah, I love having stuff going on, man. That's a terrible answer. Don't use any of that.

It just seems to be the way that you are and the thing that you need to do,

(...) And just to like...

Road trips. Well, I think the interesting part with you is that you had this vision of having eight kids, but you're someone that also is very quick to say, I deserve to go to Alabama for a week and meet my three kids. I'm gonna go. You know, that's the dichotomy for me with listening to your story that is fascinating. Because you really have stayed true to what you need.

Here's the shout out. Guess why that's possible. My husband is the best.

that's phenomenal. I love that for you both. Yeah, he's the best. A lot of women have terrible husbands. A lot of people have great husbands. A lot of people have mediocre husbands, but I think it's honestly down to the woman in many situations,(...) choosing whether or not to prioritize herself and her needs. So, I mean,(...) if you have a terrible husband or a terrible partner,(...) it's gonna be really hard for you to be confident in anything moving forward when you're gone. I understand that being a barrier to that.

But I mean, plenty of women with phenomenal partners still struggle with this. It's really common for moms.

To feel like we can't go away.

To even, yeah, prioritize what you want or what you need.

(...)

Can you share what's going through your head(...) when you are saying, yeah, you know what? I do need to go to Alabama for five days, actually.

(...)

I don't mean this the way that it sounds, but I don't say it that way. I'm like, it's just

an opportunity and we can make it work. And I will be

of a cranky bitch when I come back because I spent a week on the beach. So guess what? Everybody wins.

(...)

That's math.

(...)

I mean, that's just math.

I did, I had terrible kidney stones in January and December and they were off the charts.

One of the reasons that I went to Pennsylvania is because my dad's brother, Pennsylvania, was coming down to visit. I think lots of it is family-based.

(...)

I am just such a people person. Like why is traveling so much a part of who I am? Because we stop and see all of our loved ones that are around the country when we travel. We build in two days with this cousin and then we travel a little more and then we get to see a friend for lunch and then we make it all the way to Florida. We make our memories, we do our thing. We go a different direction on the way home and stop and see this cousin. And then we are home and look at all the love we just filled ourselves with.(...) That's kind of what our trips are.

I don't know how we designed them, but yeah, going to Alabama, the biggest reason I went is I got to see my uncle from Pennsylvania.(...) Yeah,

then I had a terrible January. So then I was like, whoop, here I go. What a great timing.

(...)

I love it.

I do too, good for you. Trying to be more like that. Yeah, it's a good way to be.

you ready? What makes you feel beautiful?

(...)

Well, it makes me feel beautiful.

valued, if that's easier to receive.

If this makes you feel better, every woman has struggled to answer this question. Really? Yeah.

Yeah, we've had two male guests. Do you remember what Kevin's answer was? No. I remember. But Kyle's was sex right away. Yeah, Kyle immediately was like sex. I was like, okay, exactly. But Kevin also answered right away. Yeah, no problems. Women are the ones who are just like, huh, am I allowed to feel beautiful? Do I know what I feel that way? Like am I, yeah, it's an interesting, it's a doozy. It's the hardest question we ever asked on this show.

When my pants fit well.

(...) Oh,

(...)

phenomenal.

(...)

Yes.

Yes, and why is it so hard?(...) It's so hard.

Yes. And why is it so up and down? Up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down and up and down.

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean people track like the phases of their cycle, et cetera. I feel like we should have gene trackers for the month too. You

know, like. Yes, it goes along with your cycle. It goes along with your cycle because yeah, sometimes I want to sign up. I want to go to an event or I'm trying to pack for a trip. I'm not going to try and everything for the trip I'm leaving up for that weekend, but I want to feel like a baller and some pants. I've got to try it a lot. It fits me totally different than it did literally three days ago.

It ain't right.

(...)

It ain't right. It's like now I'm going to be able to get sick. It ain't right.

Okay. This is cute.

I was in high school, my sisters got me because I was so type A. Was. That past tense. Was. They got me this like pad of, it's like a, it's like what to wear. And so it's like, you plan out your outfit for like the next day. Okay. So like, this is this pad of paper I got in high school or maybe even middle school.

(...) I hung on to that. I would have loved to know type A Cali in middle school.

Oh yeah.

Anyways.

She was kind of chill middle school.

It really developed in high school.

I brought it to college with me, apparently, because I just found it. And the only page that is filled out is the top page. And it was from my friend Gabe. And I don't, he must've just like been in my room. I don't know. But it's something like just in big letters, you're beautiful and everything you wear. XOXO Gabe.

(...)

Gabe.

I know.

(...)

that just so cute?

Yeah.

Gabrielle.

Yeah. I thought I'd share.

He's a good husband someday.

Maybe he's a good husband right now.

Wherever you are, Gabrielle.

Yes, he will be. Are you a sweet husband? Yes. Love it. Well, thank you so much. This has been delightful.

Thank you so much. It was really fun.

Emily, where do you live?

Milwaukee.

Oh, you do? Okay. I was thinking Madison.(...) Now you can be on the rotation of their trips. Oh yeah.

(Emily Laughs)

We got space.(...) Sounds great. Love it.

(...)

Cool. Do you guys travel?

(...)

Do, but not like you. Like I love to travel, but post kids, we just don't travel that much. We travel a lot.

I mean, I just think like when you're... It's a damn lot of work. Yeah. Yeah. Kelly was listening to that episode you sent me. Kelly Evans, I think was doing an episode with someone. Oh yeah, it's fun to teal. I'm like, "Syla, you might like it." It was really good. But anyways, she basically has five kids and was like, "Yeah, we don't travel. Why would we travel?" We don't travel. Like we just don't travel. And I was like, "Oh, that was a modern woman."

(...)

That's one perspective.(...) I feel like we're in the day and age where you're supposed to have it all.

is like, "It's not my thing." I think it just depends on the family.

I think part of it is just giving our kids experiences. Yeah.(...) I think that's a huge part of it. My dad grew up so poor.(...) And yet

have to believe that we took trips as a kid because he was trying to give us experiences.

(...) And I'm so grateful for them and have so many good memories. And I think, you know what? Okay, here's a reasonable answer.

(...)

(Both Laughing)

I think part of my

for traveling is

like creating a family culture and giving kids those experiences and making memories together. And the five of us having those

experiences. I think that's a huge part of it.(...) I actually, that would be my answer. I think that's-

I'll

cut and paste that back in.

That's great.

(...) (Both Laughing)

Well,

that was like us as kids, right? Like mom and dad religiously took two weeks straight, like together, which I've only since realized that's kind of unusual to spend that much time as a family in a concentrated amount. Every single year, I know dad really had to fight for that depending on the job, but

he did.

Did you always go to the same place or did you do something different? No, it was always camping.

And it was always, yeah. And we knew kind of like the drill. There were four of us. And at the beginning of the two weeks stretch, getting the tent out, getting the food ready, getting the firewood was kind of like, you had to remember our roles. And like no one to be scarce. And all of that. And then man, by the end of those two weeks though, we were like a well-oiled machine. Oh my gosh. We'd pile out of the car and like, we knew our role. We knew our job. We got that site set up. That's so true. But that's so much a part of our family culture. So I think you're doing it, Emily. I think your kids will be super grateful.

(...) Inspiration.

thank you. Yes, so good to meet you. This has been delightful.

(...)