Episode 24: I Was Built For Motherhood (or Was I?)

When a recent podcast guest boldly declared "I was built for motherhood," it sparked immediate curiosity and we had to do a deep-dive into what actually feels natural (or decidedly unnatural) for us in the parenting journey. We get real about the motherhood skills we’ve had to Google versus the instincts that flowed effortlessly from day one. From surprising breastfeeding difficulties to the sweet confidence that comes after the one-year motherhood milestone, this conversation tackles the seldom-discussed psychological phenomenon of "feeling like a real mom" - and when that magical transition actually happens.

Main Topics & Discussion

The Motherhood Learning Curve
Is anyone actually "built" for motherhood right from the start? (Our take: YES but it may not always feel that way). We recount early parenting struggles, from the seemingly straightforward task of breastfeeding to the bewildering challenge of soothing newborns. What happens when the thing you're biologically "designed" to do feels impossibly difficult? Between lactation consultants manhandling boobs and husbands expressing colostrum onto plastic spoons, the chaotic early days of motherhood rarely match the serene images we're sold. The conversation explores how mothering instincts evolve as we do.

The Unexpected Parenting Superpowers
Not every aspect of motherhood requires a steep learning curve. We share the skills that came naturally to us. From emotional postpartum experiences to more grounded protection instincts, we explore how our contrasting natural abilities complement each other. We discuss different approaches to personal care post-baby, confronting the "mom who hasn't showered in four days" stereotype and whether prioritizing your own needs makes you a better parent. Listeners will relate to  candid confessions about which parenting skills we’ve had to outsource and which came instinctively from day one.

The Evolution of Relationships After Baby
Perhaps the most intriguing revelation is how motherhood transforms relationships with everyone from partners to friends to strangers. We talk through our journey toward "communal mothering" - the liberating discovery that letting others care for your child can feel completely natural, even when it once seemed impossible. We talk about enjoying dates without anxiety, and how our approach to friendship and socialization often transforms once you become a parent. The conversation offers practical wisdom about building your parenting community, and making

Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

(...)

Hi. Hello. How are you?

(...)

I was doing really well and now I'm rageful because Kevin has been working out of my office more often and it is a fishing disaster.

(...)

And the thing that grinds my gears are the cords everywhere and he's insisting on this dual monitor situation on my little

cute antique painted desk.

who knows why but

is a

of matches strewn about the floor.

What? Who knows?

Do you even have a candle in there?

Yeah. So maybe they were in here and Nora found them. They're all over the floor. It's like every time I roll my chair it's like.

(...)

Okay. I'm not gonna lie as we were getting set up I was like, oh my God, is she mad at me? So glad you're mad at Kevin and not me. Oh, that's correct.

(...)

Incredible.

(...)

I know what we're doing this weekend. It's okay. How are you?

(...)

I'm like feeling a little smug right now after that story because I've

I really need my workspaces to be clear. Like I just always have. I don't like things lying around. It drives me crazy. It just makes my brain wild.(...) So I've been returning to my office, which Kyle now prefers because it's nice. He took, yeah, long story. We don't need to talk about it, but he's in my office often.

(...)

And a few days ago I was like, listen,

I get grateful when I walk into this space I've made for myself that just has your fish all over it. Like cords. It's the cord thing again. I'm like, Oh my God, how did they not mess with your brain?(...) And I was just like, I need you to not to like, I understand you're doing a hard thing right now. You're studying. Like I get it. Mess up your own office. Well, please don't actually. Cause, but whatever don't mess up mine. You know what mine just leave it. So anyways, I came in to record this episode with you today and my office was immaculate like pristine.(...) Like I can't even, I would give you a tour, but I don't want to make you more upset.

Yeah. No, you're not getting a tour of mine.

(...)

It is bad down to match. Kevin, Kevi boy.

(...)

Yeah. I think that's inspiration. I think this weekend that's our project because we have to share it. Like this is the only workspace that's separate. So like we do need to share it. And if he's going to work from home more, that's fine. I actually enjoy that. However,(...) we're going to need to do some work.

(...)

So is that your hard thing this week or did you have a different hard thing that you'd like to share?

Oh, I've, oh, Nora is just yelling. Cause she can't talk yet, but we're going to get her in speech pathology. It'll be fine

for the listeners. How old is Nora now?

(...)

21 months.

Is she really?

Yeah. Oh yeah. She would be. And she's like just so frustrated that she's like yelling like so like just, it sounds like she's in pain and she's not.

that's been tough.

(...) Yeah.

So these sports brush straps hanging out are challenging. Sorry. If you're watching this on YouTube,

(...)

girls gotta be ready to work out at any moment. That's motherhood.

How about you?

What's hard? I think the hard thing, honestly, the hardest thing for me right now is it's so fishing beautiful out. Like it is so, yeah, we were out running errands all morning. So like, I didn't have a minute to just play with him outside and I almost canceled on you. I'm not going to lie.

(...)

I would like to do, I would like to bump nap time an hour. It's so nice. I was going to bump nap time an hour just to hang out with him outside.

Yeah. Hope it'll still be nice when he wakes up.

Anyways,

that's what's really hard for me right now.

It's the weather is too nice. Nice.

(...)

What is beautiful? What are you loving about motherhood?

His energy.

It's like he wakes up and he's this little

energizer bunny and I, it's exhausting at times, but the past week he's just literally bouncing off the walls all the time. Like I can't,

you know, those old cartoons where like when they're running, their legs are kind of just a little wheel, like a blur. That's how he exists in my brain most of the time now. So cute. It's just joyful. And like, even when he's really naughty, I really appreciate the fact that he's just going for it with gusto. Like if you're going to do the thing, don't half ass it. Like, you know, get after it. Thank you. You know,(...) so cute.

I know. What are you loving?

(...)

Charlie is just such a hoot, right? Like his vocabulary has exploded. And so like you can just really,

his vocabulary has always been explosive.

Yes. But like lately he's just pulling out these words and like understanding nuance and it's just fun. And like I can give him side eye when Nora is being so annoying.

(...)

We can be like.(...) And then also like when she's being really cute, he like thinks it's cute.(...) Oh, which is a good one. Yeah, it's so precious.

Charlie.

(...)

Wow.

(...)

I know. What a good guy.(...) Yeah, it's been awesome.

Yay. Love to hear it.

So before we dive into our topic for the day, just a little reminder. If you are enjoying this or if you have somebody that would really benefit from listening to an episode or two, please send it their way.

(...)

There's a lot of moms reaching out that are just, I think, gaining a lot of camaraderie. What's the word?

(...)

Solidarity.

Yeah.(...) Feeling super heard by others sharing their individual experience and.

I'm feeling inspired and that's what we want to do. I mean, we're feeling inspired every time we talk to a guest.

(...)

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, selfishly, I just want more for us. I want more for us as moms. That is the whole reason this podcast.

And when you say us, you mean like us universally.

(...) Collective motherhood. I mean globally, but really in the US, I want more understanding for our situation. I want more support for us

our communities, also legislative work.(...) I want more. I'm thirsty for more now that I am a mom, I'm a fresh mom. I'm noticing these gaps I never knew existed. And so

the whole reason that this platform exists is to

awareness and normalize some of the hard parts and not just

normal parts and not just normalize, but celebrate. Yes.

(...)

So anyways, there's our

pitch to you. Please help us out. If you like the work we're doing, the best way that you can support us right now is to share it with as many women that you think would resonate with these stories as possible.

(...)

Because women are awesome. We should probably tell the world.

(...)

Yeah.

I mean, it's kind of a big deal.

(...)

And thank you all for listening. We've just been really grateful and

by those of you that have been reaching out

I get just like this little jolt of joy and happiness every time I see an email or a text or which by the way, you can text us from your podcast apps, like right before the description of the episode, you can shoot us a text. We can't respond, but we love seeing them. So if there are things you think we're not talking about enough, things you

want to hear more about, or if you have your own story or another mom story that you think is

super inspirational or rare or you think should have some more air time,(...) let us know. We love to talk to her. We'd love to talk to you.

Mm hmm.

Fills us up. It sure does.(...) So we were inspired for this episode by one of our guests. It was Meg.

(...)

Well, yes, she's inspiring for so many reasons.

But yeah, you and I were chatting the other day about her episode and also Emily Silers. There were two, there was a piece of both of those that really stuck out. It was, Meg, I think said at one

point, I was built for this.

I was built to be a mom. And I walked away from her episode being like, God, I want every single woman I love to feel that way about motherhood.

Yeah, it was incredible.

And

I felt more empowered to feel that way about motherhood. Also

it's not something

I feel often if I'm being honest.

And then when we were talking to Emily Siler,

talking about her breastfeeding journey, which was difficult and she didn't have the kind of support that you and I did.

(...)

And when

we asked her, well, why did you do it? She was like, well, it's what we were made to do. You know, basically

I was built for this.

(...)

So today,

(...)

let's do a little deep dive.

(...)

I was built for this.

(...)

Although there's things that I was built for that I'm like, yeah, exactly. Was I? Are you sure?(...) Yeah, it

doesn't feel that way.

Someone told me I was.

(...)

But oh

So I want to know what you felt built for where you were like, yes, my body is like here for it. Let's do it. Let's go.

(...)

Yeah, no. I mean, theoretically, this is what I was supposed to do. But this feels bad or hard.

Yeah. Can I start with that one? Because you said breastfeeding and this is just funny. Oh, go first child breastfeeding was not going well. I was using a nipple shield, which is this like plastic thing. If you've never seen it that you literally put over your nipple and it helps the baby latch. I forgot about that. Yeah. So we had to go back in. Well, okay. Like Kevin was hand expressing my milk, which was horrifying for your first child. Like, that's a new level of marriage that how often let's get everything ready because he wasn't latching. So like every hour.

(...)

Oh, just in the hospital. Okay. Okay. Then we got the nipple shield to work. Okay. So the funny part of the story is that we're back in like three days after he was born to do a consult. And I'm sitting there with my boob out the lactation consultant. Like, you know, they like have your boob in one hand and they have the baby's head in the other and they're like, man handling you in the best way. I'm so thankful. And as this is happening, she's like, yeah, so you have my daughter in choir.

(...)

Like you were teaching your daughter's teacher.

Yes. She had a high school age daughter that I was teaching. And honestly, like, I love it. It was in the moment because it was my first. I was like, but now I just like feel this connection with her. I'm like, you got my child to breastfeed. I taught your child like there is this amazing bond. It's totally funny and fine. The breastfeeding was not natural. It was incredibly hard for me. There's a multitude of reasons and it was kind of awful and I'm so glad I could do it. But yeah, like my body's built for it. Only it's not working. Hello.

(...)

Right.

(...)

Right. We should retitle this episode.

(...)

Breastfeeding.(...) Honestly, that's nothing

else like this, but you're so natural.(...) You like lounge.

Yeah, great when you breastfeed. Auntie Katie would love to watch you breastfeed. I'm sure she can go back and listen to that episode if you're confused.

(...)

Thank you.

I think like that's so is

mean, you always look natural too. I was not living in the same state when you were using the nipple shields. Oh, sure. I heard about it more than I saw it. Yeah.(...) But I mean, you always do with your babies.

(...)

Oh, no.

Honestly, from the

women that I've talked to, so my pool of, I don't know, stories that I've heard, it's not large, right? I'm one person. In my community, as far as I can tell, I think I had a pretty standard breastfeeding journey.

(...) Well, except for releasing a tongue tie, that was horrifying. I hate it.

That's bad.

Yeah. But that is all to say, I think I had a pretty easy time of it, and it was still hard,

and it was still uncomfortable, and I still was like, "Why is this so weird? Why does this hurt so much for two months?"(...) So bad. It hurts. It hurts.

It's like agony. And if you're an IVCLC listening right now, you're going to be like, "It's not supposed to hurt," I think, because that's what all the literature say. I've not talked to a single woman that hasn't had horrible pain. Well, you've

got to build up the calluses. I think,(...)

Yeah. I was in the hospital. We had to do a little ... Literally, we were self expressing,

and I had a lot of drugs in my system, which were not anticipated, that were ... They were concerned that I was not going to produce

in time,

because I was on a lot of drugs that were supposed to not help with that.

I was so ready to latch Kieran on.

(...) I love that. Oh, yeah, you were around too. You could have.

(...)

So, we were definitely hand expressing colostrum, literally, into those-

(...)

The little medicine cups. No, it was a plastic spoon. Because we couldn't get more

than just tiny droplets on this plastic spoon that was, I think, came from my breakfast tray. He was unused.

Such a weird thing. Yeah, so we're

just hoarding these colostrum droplets on these little teaspoons to then put in his mouth.

Yeah, that's wild, man.

I mean, it was just ... You were pumping, right? Just trying to get everything going.

Hand pumping track all the time.

Yeah. I know for me, so I had a cesarean and hemorrhaged in the middle of it. Anyways, blacked out.

(...)

Woke up quite a while later.(...) I mean, I saw them take him out. I saw him- You didn't black out.

You were drugged, right?

No, I actually passed out.

Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Oh.

They did not put me out.

So I woke

then found out that one of the lactation consultants had been around when I was passed out and had asked Kyle, "Hey, can I try and help the baby latch?"

(...)

That's amazing. Which I was honestly so grateful for. Yeah. I was like, "Okay, cool." That's incredible. Yeah, I felt really cared for and I was really happy that Kieran had had that experience. And I don't remember it. I was out for it, which is also bizarre. That's a really weird. Yeah, weird thing.(...) So then, yeah, anyways, hospital was weird. Multiple people from the lactation team were in. They were phenomenal. I love these women who, whatever women are drawn to helping women breastfeed, just phenomenal personality.

Yeah. It's all around. Labor and delivery nurses.

(...)

Just, yeah. I'm sure there's some men, nurses, but usually.

I have an idea. If a

dude walked in and tried to help me latch, I'd be like, "Okay."

No, I mean like labor delivery nurses. I'm sure there's some male. I don't know if, yeah.

Anyways, I just want to say I think it felt highly unnatural and then coming home from the hospital, they don't really tell you what to do.

(...) It's like sink or swim. I was

so happy. I was breastfeeding.(...) Mom was there, but the way that you get a newborn to latch is totally different than you get an older baby to latch. Yeah.

So in the majority of your time breastfeeding,

(...)

mom was trying to help me do it and was remembering from the older baby position.

doesn't feel right. It doesn't feel right.

Yeah. Well, and I'm so thankful for those giant pillows and stuff. What did they do before the breast friend pillow? I don't know. They usually use a tree stump.

(...)

be honest, I liked my Frida mom, whatever they call it.

Oh, I know.

I'm going to get one.

A little more?

Yeah. I inherited a used breast friend. So grateful. It was incredible, but it's like disintegrating, which has I think allowed me to purchase a Frida mom one.

(...)

Cannot wait for your next.

Okay, so breastfeeding.(...) Maybe like the most natural thing that feels completely unnatural.

No, yeah.

(...)

Oh wait, also, we really do have to title this the breastfeeding episode.

(...)

What is the condition that you had when you had let down?

Well, you had a little, right? It's called Deamer Dysphoric Milk. I always want to say ejaculation and it is in fact ejection. Dysphoric Milk Ejection Reflex, I think, or response.(...) So basically, it's been a while since I looked it up. None of the happy hormones that you're supposed to get when you let down,(...) you can have an imbalance.

(...)

So usually, people feel warm and fuzzy and great. Like our mom. Yeah, but I felt horrible. To the point of feeling nauseous, I felt so truly depressed for 30 to 60 seconds every time I let down.

(...)

If I was trying to nurse and eat, I would completely lose my appetite. I couldn't do it. I didn't even want to see food because I was so nauseous from how horrible I felt. It wasn't as bad with Nora, but I still had it a little bit.(...) So yeah, Deamer.

(...) I remember seeing you with Charlie and it's like your soul just vacated your body just because of the desolation in your eyes. It was horrible.

(...)

I've never felt so emotionally horrible.

(...)

It's bizarre. Yeah. Yeah. It's really weird. It's quick, but

right. It's good to know it's over, but it

erase the fact that your body is just doing this bizarre thing.

Yeah.

It completely

affects your perspective on the world in that moment.

Yeah.

(...)

Which is extra hard when you're not naturally and when it's not going well.

Yeah.

Or like when I was pumping at school, that's awful. Yeah, there's not even a cute

baby for you to look at. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I got it a little bit.

(...)

It's just like complete anxiety.

(...) Mm.

(...)

Then again, 30 to 60 seconds, then it was gone. So weird. So weird. So weird. And I think I would have,(...) for you, it was so bad

that you did the research and figured out what it was.

Yeah. I'd mine with the anxiety with postpartum hormones. I don't think I would have recognized it except that I knew what your experience was. Okay.

But it's so crazy making.

(...)

Well, and like I had to, I literally read a scholarly article to figure it out. Yeah. Maybe it's more so now, but when I was looking it up, I like had to dig to find it.

is really weird. Yeah.

All right.(...) Um, not natural for me, supernatural for my husband.

(...)

So this is weird.(...) Soothing newborn babies. Oh, he's so good. He's so good. And thank God, because I am terrible. I'm okay now.

But like,(...) this is not natural for me. Say more. What do you mean? Well, first of all, when they cry, I get, I feel so bad. I feel so sad and they cry all the time, especially like Charlie was like borderline colicky. I would panic. I'm like, I wouldn't really panic, but in my head I'd be like, you know, I probably looked like totally stoic to the rest of the world because that's how I am.

(...)

But internally, I'm like, are they in pain? Are they freezing cold? Am I hurting my baby? Did I eat too much broccoli? And it's like, and no, maybe they're just crying. Like I had to go to therapy because I couldn't handle the crying.

(...)

Yeah. Which is so weird. Even other babies crying, like in the, you know, doctor's office, the next room over, I would have these like intrusive thoughts of these babies in horrible situations and they were just crying. Yeah. So Kevin's amazing with babies, like newborns, I am getting better.

(...)

So you don't think that the empathy, the extreme empathy is like a superpower?(...) Is it just made, you know what?

Yeah. Well,

I just with newborns, you can't be logical about it.(...) I think it's great now. Like with Charlie, the empathy, that's one of the things that I feel really natural with is just like understanding developmental psychology. I just like it anyways. I did really well in it in school. I didn't really have to study it. Like that's just easy for me.

(...)

So I think that's easy for me to see like why a toddler is dysregulated. You know, like I can quickly pinpoint like, well, these things may have happened. These are variables that I can change with a baby. I can't fricking tell.

So it helped once I like learned about the four or five or 10 S's, whatever the S's are, you know, or like just like, um,

(...)

like babies have a certain S which sues them. So like shushing, swaying, don't remember the other ones. Oh, suckling. Maybe, you know, that can't be, yeah. Like Passy.(...) Um, I think it's in the book, happiest baby on the block. Maybe there were just like certain tactics that once I had a checklist of things to try,(...) I felt a lot more in control.

(...)

And that's why it's so much easier for me with older kids, especially once they can communicate, which is why Nora and I are not jelling right now.

(...)

So if we're talking about this concept of being built for this, that would imply if you're taking that phrase at face value, Oh, I'm built for this. I should know how to soothe my baby. Yeah. And for you, you needed to consult experts. Yeah. To gain confidence in having different tactics strategies, actually just getting the job done.

Yeah. My go-to was not putting the baby down. Like if you're crying, I'm not going to put you down and I'm going to try to nurse you and nurse you and nurse you.

(...) Like that's all. Without the book, that was what you wanted to do. Yeah.(...) That's so funny. Ironic because when you are screaming as a baby, often all you wanted was to be put down with no one touching you.

So yeah, I know. Mom reminded me of that. And like Kevin would do that. I'd be like, well, maybe it just wants to play like, no, babies just want to be held all the time. That's what everybody says.

(...)

This is so bad. I don't even remember. I remember the crying being really difficult.

for some reason, I'm not going to experts to give me tools and tactics. You're more of a gun. You and I'm calling mom.(...) Yeah, I'm calling a few people to say, okay, what circumstances might I not be considering here because I'm in this like screaming crying tunnel. I can't see out of it. You know, what am I saying?

Why don't I do that? Meg said that too. Like that's who she goes to first. And I was like, duh, Kelly.

(...)

We've even talked about this and I forget it all the time. Well just seems like way more work to do it your way.

(...) Yes.(...) But now I get to call you and you've done all the work.

(...)

True.

(...)

I mean, this is just repeating itself like rinse and repeat.(...) Press feeding issues, funny parenting,

(...)

you know, all of it.

(...)

I'm really the beneficiary here.(...) Okay.

What was one of yours?

Sticking all the time.(...) Oh,(...) it was just

he was a baby particularly and not able to communicate with me as well.

(...)

I mean, I would just,

mean, I still would, except he just never stops moving.

(...)

Stare at him. Like if he was playing, I would just stare. I think I could have stared at that kid for hours. Like I just loved staring at him, loved being with him. Yeah. I think that's really not a healthy way to be.(...) And like I kind of loved snuggling him, holding him or watching him play. And then I'd be like, all right, well now what?

(...)

So why do you not think it's a healthy way to be like when he was little

because when I went back to work, yeah, when I went back to work and we had in care in home care for him,(...) the sense of relief that I would get when I'm in a room by myself was pretty telling.

(...)

Or

just like a nice balance. I don't know. I mean, it's so much work to leave a newborn if you're breastfeeding.

(...)

Well, and I didn't, I would step out of meetings to breastfeed him.

I'm pushing back because I feel like maybe it's not enjoyable. Maybe it's not easy.

(...)

But I think that process for our brain probably is healthy and a like, you know, classic Cali suffer through it, get better for it kind of way.

You mean the obsession and the extreme need to be away. What are you talking about?

No, like just being with that baby constantly while they're breastfeeding for a little bit. And then the relief of getting away is great.

(...)

Oh, I see. And more enjoyable because you like did the hard thing for a little bit.

Yes, I 100% agree. My point is the what felt good in the moment, the brain would have to override the instinct for me every time. Yeah. And as I'm learning more about mothers previous to our current society, like hunter gatherer societies,

(...)

I mean, women would be breastfeeding their kids up to like three years, but they wouldn't be with their kids the whole time. It was communal mothering. Right. Other people would watch these babies while the moms went. I mean, it was healthy. It was good for them.

Especially when it's spaced out more. Right.

(...) Yeah.(...)

Sadie and Nancy who were nannying for us at the time are so great at tracking baby developmental milestones. Like they care about that stuff and they like think it should be done. And I do too,(...) but I don't, you're not going to do it. Like I will do it, but I just honestly, I don't think about it. Yeah. At all. Yeah. And then to have them actually be interacting with him in a different way and teaching with him, I was just like, yeah, my brain does not do baby well. I felt the same way kid, but I do not. I'm watching other adults who are just actually so innately good at it. Yeah. I'm so grateful that they are here for my child.

Even like watching mom with a little baby be like, Oh, you want the blue truck. My first thought was like, mom, that baby doesn't know colors. Why are you wasting your time? And then I was like, Oh, that's literally how they learn.(...) Yeah.

(...)

Yeah. Yeah.(...) Yeah. Okay. I had written down play.(...) Please is one of my not natural for me.

(...)

I think that's so true for a lot of adults.

I get so bored.

(...)

I get bored too. I'm like, what do you want from me? Oh my gosh. I don't know what to give you.

(...)

Yeah. If like, I'll read you books all day.

Yeah.

(...)

Great. There's an instruction manual there. I mean, it's every page. You just read the words. You pointed the pictures.

(...)

Yeah. We were at this place that's this morning.

(...)

And it's this, I will probably have her on. She's a speech pathologist and she's really passionate about like families learning how to play with their children in a way that's great for everybody. Oh, please get her on here. I need to know. Yeah. That's what I was thinking after leaving this morning. I'm like, man, she was just so like dialed in, like playing with these kids. And I kept trying to make conversation with her and she was like,(...) she didn't say anything, but she would respond. But she was like, obviously just like playing with my kids. And I was like, was that what I'm supposed to be doing?

(...)

another one for me. Okay.(...) So I was learning how to eat solids again. This is when we had in-home nanny here.

Yeah.

(...) I didn't really teach my baby how to eat solids.

Like honestly, dinnertime, like after work would hit and the weekends would hit and I would be like, Oh no, own, own. This is the worst thing I've ever had to do.

I remember being confused purely because you're such a foodie.(...) And then I just felt like you weren't really giving him food. And Kevin and I were like, why aren't they feeding this guy? He was nursing. Like he was, he's rotund. He's a healthy kid.

(...)

Listen, like I would give him food. I just was like,

(...)

Oh my God, it's going to take an hour for you to like squeeze the avocado and like make yourself all messy. And then you're going to like, yeah, I was just like, Ew, can we skip this part?

(...)

And still today,

like I have to force myself to be interested in creating interesting comp flavor and texture combinations, which is not difficult for me to do. I love your thing,

(...)

but then I watched this kid just throw it on the ground.

Is that why you guys like feed him more often? What do you mean?

will help him eat. Like you're right there with him, like helping him through the experience.

(...)

And I wonder if it's because you're so passionate about the food thing. You're like doing this together.

No, no, that's a newer thing.

(...)

Was probably more because we were at in your home more recently.

Oh, and you didn't want him like throwing his food in our home. Yes.

Okay. Just, and it's, and it's honestly just more mental space for me to

it up. And also, yeah.

I mean, he, he'll often, I love to strap that kid in a high chair where he strapped in, love it and just let him do his thing. Cause then I can do my thing a little, right? Yeah. That's usually how he's eating. Okay.

But he refuses to try anything new that way.

We do actually have to be sitting with him at the table or sitting in front of him, eating the

new thing to get him interested in enough to

try it. Yeah. And then often it is interactive. So he's in a really picky phase and that is the only way we've been able to get new things.

Yeah. That's a good reminder. We always eat together as a family, but I kind of just like put the food on Nora's plate and then if she doesn't eat it, she doesn't eat it. But I wonder if I offered it from my plate, if it would go better.

I don't know. It's just exactly like, even just talking about it. I'm just like, I'm bored already. I'm so bored.

(...)

Like what if we just didn't, you know, what if you just ate your food?(...) You know, if I starved you, you'd probably eat it and I'm never going to do that.

Because I love you too much. And you're cranky and then you won't sleep and I need you to sleep.

(...)

Yep.

I am on to my took a while, but I'm feeling more naturalist. Do you have any more that you'd like to share of not natural?

Oh wait, were we supposed to talk about things that did feel natural? Oh my God.

Oh, I thought we were.

I have a couple.

We don't have to talk about them. I said we were in the beginning of this

episode, huh? I'll start. You do some thinking. Wait, I just have this whole long list of other things that

didn't feel natural.

(...)

I'm just kidding. You go.

Oh, I'm not kidding. I'm sure I had more. I just, yeah, it's like been a while for me now. I'm feeling almost four years. For what?(...) Since like becoming a mother. Oh yeah. So I actually, it was nice to like, know that I didn't remember that much.

Like it feels like more of a blur because it's really hard. When you have your newborn,

the new, the new new phase. Yeah.

(...) Yeah. Yeah. Which was a nice feeling.

(...)

Is that bad?

(...)

Um, okay. It took a while still working on it, but getting better at mom guilt, specifically for like things that

benefit my healthiness, my health, like getting a little workout in, eating food, taking a shower.

Like the meme is always like, Oh, the mom hasn't showered in like four days. I refuse to let that be a reality for me. I love a shower. So I'm a daily shower. Sometimes it's with my kids. Like sometimes it's all three of us. See, that sounds like hell. Yeah, it's not great, but I'm a daily shower person.(...) Like I eat square meals.(...) Square meals. What did you, what is a square meal? I don't know. I think I was trying to say like three square meals a day. Is that a thing people say? Three solid meals? I hate cake.(...) Three nutrient dense meals. Rewind. That's not always true. Three full meals. Yeah. Like I eat meals. I'm not just like picking off their plates.

Okay. Okay.

I mean, I'm still kind of doing that, like cleaning up their plates, but like I make myself food.

Like, even if they're not going to eat it, you make yourself what you need to fuel your body.

Yeah. To a point. I mean, not as great as I'd like, but yeah.

And does that feel natural for you or is that something that makes you feel more natural and better in your body?

Well, both. I'm like, I know my body needs these things, so I'm going to do them. Like it's kind of a non-negotiable for me.

(...)

Okay. Things that feel more natural to me now.

(...)

Um, last month we went, there was a one week stretch where we had two dates in one week. Oh, nice. Unusual for us. Yeah.

(...)

And it just felt really natural being on a date with my husband, which is great. Cause he needs to do that. I don't know, four times a week, whatever.

(...)

But the part that, that really was cool was that it feels really natural for me to leave him with certain people. Like he's not even really on husband.

(...)

Yeah. I like to leave my husband with no, no, my child.

(...)

Like that is something I really struggle with. Like letting other people care for my children feels wrong. That feels like a fully unnatural. And that's something that I want to get over.

(...)

So it was really great to be on two separate dates, two different people watched him and I just wasn't worried. Like he wasn't really on my brain. Like he's always on my brain constantly. Like he's always in the back. That's just kind of how I live now, but no anxiety that felt natural. And I was like, Oh, he must be having so much fun with these people. You know, he must be having a great time. And guess what he was.

Yeah. Loved it.

So communal mothering nurturing.

(...)

That is something I would like more of. Yeah. Felt great.

Felt natural.(...) I love it.

I think just in general, my confidence just as a mom, I mean, I kind of said this and I just really agree at like one year old,(...) I just really remember that time feeling like, okay,

(...)

kind of in my stride, feeling good. I've kept this trial of the life for a year.(...) This just in general feels more natural. Something's clicking.

Yeah. Also I'm realizing that's kind of when breastfeeding like is not important anymore.

(...)

Correlation here.(...) Are they connected?

(...)

No, I felt the same and I'm still breastfeeding. I just, cause I'm letting him lead for now.

they're like

eating food, you know, it's like, they're not

reliant on your body getting anything right now. He's 19 months, but yeah, a year for this was the same for me. I think it's just that imposter syndrome. Like, am I doing it? Is this my mom yet?

Yeah. It was about a year. I would like to hear from moms specifically if that's just like sort of this common denominator, because it just seems like that's kind of the time, at least for the three of us from our study of three. From our study of three.

(...)

Yeah. Yeah, totally.

I will say there are some protect instincts for him that feel so right.

(...)

The instincts that make me like fighting mad or just makes me feel

like I would take on a 300 pound man

for the right reasons.

(...)

I'm pretty here for those. Those make me feel powerful. Yeah.

there's been a lot of, there have been some decisions that we've made

about how we spend our time, who we spend it with, what we're doing that are different than the decisions we would have made prior to having a kid, obviously.

(...)

And in those times, if I'm assessing Kieran's needs and our needs as a family, if I'm taking everyone needs into a consideration and I'm making a decision based off that, or I'm protecting some

that one or all of us has.

(...)

I have no FOMO.

(...)

I have no regret.

(...)

I have no need to explain myself. I am not defensive in the slightest to the people that I'm, you know, informing of these decisions. It's just like a concrete, this is best for my family. Ask me any question you want. I am firm in this resolve.(...) That is a natural instinct that has been really empowering.

you're a little more natural at that than I am. I've grown into that more just like trusting my gut and like really being confident in that.

That happened again. Like the empowerment happened after the one year mark for Kieran, because prior to that, I was pretty fully aware that my hormones, my brain was not, my logic was not in touch with my gut.(...) Like I couldn't have the two interact successfully just because of the crazy hormonal ride I was on. Yeah. They were not direct severing of the two. So that kind of undermined my confidence in what we were doing. So I w I do want to be clear that the like standing firm grounded instinctive, that is honestly the last

months. Like it was after he was a year old that felt right and good.

Before that, I was second guessing a lot.

I wonder if that'll happen again, like with new phases, you know,

(...)

like when we have another kid. Or is Kieran Rose over. You know, I'm imagining myself like trying to parent a middle school or like, Oh God, you know,

(...)

but a lot of moms like just love it. Like I've heard mom say, just like the older they get, the more fun it is, which so far has been my experience.

(...)

So I have hoped that middle school will still be fun, but I'm sure it will

What else feels natural for you?

I'm pretty chill with physical safety stuff.

(...)

Like I just, you are, my kids just kind of bounced around and it's kind of fine. I wasn't as chill with Charlie, like the stairs, like, um, at his grandparent's house, they have stairs that,

There's no like back to

the step. It's like floating steps.

So like those made me nervous because I was sure they were going to like fall through there. It's like, there were some triggers for me or like car or water that I'm not chill physically,

(...)

but yeah, like on the playground in general and pretty.

Yeah. Which that's nice. I have enough to be anxious about.

(...)

Yeah, that's fair. I will say to listeners, um, your kids, I don't think either of them has a daredevil bone in their body. They're both emotionally,

(...)

physically.

They're both pretty cautious. I don't know if she's on the dining room table a lot.

She's kind of a climber. Not compared to stories I've heard of other kids.

Yeah. You have a very sturdy dining room table, but she's not trying to throw herself off of it. No, that's true. Like she knows her boundaries. Here's a different surface. Let me get on it. Checks out.

Yeah. I watch you with your kids and I'm like, huh, I aspire to be that way. I don't know if I can be, if it would be safe.

(...)

Well, I know it would be less safe sometimes. Yeah. Because I watch Kieran show Nora how to do naughty things.

(...)

It works for you guys.

(...)

It does. And I'm happy about it because it relieves some stress. Yeah, totally.

I'm going to be honest.

(...)

You're fizzling out.

I'm fizzling out.(...) Well, I think honestly more things felt unnatural to me.(...) And they feel natural. You know, it feels really natural. It makes everything so worth it is his little snuggles.

Oh my gosh. He's so snuggly. He kept like you guys were visiting this past weekend. He kept coming up behind me and like wrapping his chubby arms around me and like smushing his face into my face. Are you kidding me? Yeah.

(...)

So cute. The baby snuggles are the baby belly labs. Oh my gosh.

Those are the best.

And honestly, like co-sleeping.

I'm here for it. Didn't do it the first six months of his life. Yeah. Cause I'm a really heavy sleeper is actually the only reason

felt really natural and we still go sleep when he needs it.

We never have cause our kids won't do it. Although actually Charlie lately, like he'll come in for a little bit. Like if he has a nightmare, like come in and spend like 20 minutes in our bed, then we'll move them back and it's yeah, great. Cause they never did that.(...) Charlie. I know. So cute. Also, Nora is really cute. Just didn't need to put that on the record. Oh, she's so funny. A little more difficult right now.

I'm just so thrilled. She's giving me a hard time. I'm not going to lie after Charlie prints among humans.

(...)

I'm like, yeah, thank God. They got one of these. Just a little.

(...)

My girl's got some dudge. I'm loving it.

Well enjoy the nice weather. You should go outside by yourself. Oh God.

Novel concept.

(...)

Yeah. I don't even know. I don't even know what I do. So cook some rays. I know. vitamin D man.

Well, next week we'll have another phenomenal guest for all y'all

Yeah. Share with friend,

Yeah.

Share with a,

with a friend. Give us a follow. If you're feeling really ambitious,

(...)

you could give us. A rating and review that always helps us out too.

Great. You could tell we'd much rather talk to each other than talk about that. So moving on.

(...) Love you. Bye.

(...)