Episode 35: Why Your Pelvic Floor is Your Secret Superpower (And You're Probably Ignoring It) with Dr. Erica Boland, Chiropractor & Midwife

Ever wondered why running postpartum is impossible without peeing your pants or why "just do more Kegels" isn't working to get you more acquainted with your pelvic floor? Dr. Erica Boland, chiropractor and midwife, drops truth bombs about pelvic floor health that'll change everything you thought you knew about your body's foundation. We also discuss care practices for women during prenatal, birth and postpartum periods. This conversation will empower you to reclaim your body and seek better care.

Main Topics & Discussion

Your Pelvic Floor is Storing More Than You Think

Many women think pelvic floor work is just about Kegels and preventing leaks. Dr. Boland reveals your pelvic floor is literally your body's foundation, storing emotions, trauma, stress, and even generational patterns. The most common dysfunction isn't weakness - it's too much tension. Think walking around with your bicep flexed all day, and then expecting high functionality from it. The secret? Learning to relax first, then strengthen. She explains why we disconnect from this area from a young age and how reconnecting can be deeply healing.

The Breath Connection That Changes Everything

Your diaphragm and pelvic floor work together like a perfectly choreographed dance. When you breathe in, both should lower. Most of us are breathing wrong, living in stress mode, completely disconnected from this natural rhythm. Dr. Boland shares simple breath techniques that transform core function, help manage toddler tantrums, and actually calm your nervous system. It's not just about exercise - it's about rewiring your body's stress response.

Getting Back to Your Body After Baby

For mamas desperate to return to running and workouts, Dr. Boland provides a reality check with hope. Her functional progression approach starts with breath and relaxation before moving to strength. She breaks down practical steps for exercise return, explains why strength training trumps endless cardio, and shares real talk about timeline expectations. For those of us with less patience, hearing the 'why' behind this work is so powerful.

Find Dr. Erica Boland:

• Instagram: @themovementmidwife
• Website:

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

Hey everybody, we are so excited to chat with Dr. Erica Boland today on the pod.

She is a chiropractic focusing on poor and public health therapy for women. She runs a practice with her husband, Kyle.

(...)

But more than that, she's a midwife. She has history as a doula.

(...)

We go through all things pelvic floor.

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she's also a mom of four. She's been through multiple pregnancies and postpartum of her own. So she has all this knowledge and wisdom.

we start with pelvic floor health and really what that means. It was mind-boggling for both Emily and myself. As two people who have done some pelvic floor therapy, done a fair amount of research. It was actually a whole new world. We're thrilled about it. So tune in for that. We talk about matrescence. We talk about finding your stillness as a mom, trusting your gut. What else? So much.

Right now, I'm about to hit play and just relisten the whole thing, which I probably will five times over because this is a phenomenal conversation.

And share it with all my friends in a totally non-self-absorbed way. Really in like a, "You need to hear this" way.

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So we hope that you find this information helpful and that it offers the support that it gave us.

(...)

Oh, I've been looking for curtains for my office that have the pattern of your shirt on them.

Really?

is heavier material.

oh, so maybe I could make it into curtains.

There you go.

It's probably a pretty expensive purchase to try to like get several of make into curtains, but

a very small window. That's it.

Oh, yeah, you probably could just hang one. I'm not sure if it's a very small window. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I think it's probably good. Just hang one in the window.

(...)

How's your day going?

Thanks for joining us. Yeah.

(...)

I'm so excited to dive into any of the 20 conversations we get out today. I'm reading more about your work.

it. Well, thank you so, so much for being here. I'm really excited to dive in. For our listeners,

(...)

could you just tell them a little bit about what a typical day looks like for you? We can include your professional sphere, your personal sphere, a little bit of everything.

(...)

Yeah, a typical day for me looks like I wake up and I journal before I get on my phone(...) or work out. So my journal session is first and then I either lift or run and then I go back to the house and help get four boys ready and off to school. Realistically, only one of them needs my help anymore.

And then I start seeing patients at the clinic on Monday, Wednesday, Thursdays.(...) And my schedule is just open. So either my midwifery clients or chiropractic patients can book with me.(...) And so my day will look anywhere from

seeing peds for developmental milestones, to seeing women for corn public floor, to seeing midwifery postpartum or prenatal clients or consults for future

births.

(...)

And then of course, because I am a business owner, there's trying to shove all

business aspects in between all of that.

Yeah, so actually I'm glad you asked that question because it feels a little more of a flow now, but probably because my kids are nine and up and not

little, little anymore, where things tend to be a little bit more intense as far as the time commitment and demands.

Were you doing this when you had little kids?

Yeah, so yeah. Our first, our oldest son will be 18 in August,

which is wild.

(...)

And so I was 19 when I had him.

So he's been through all of it with us.

my husband's a chiropractor as well. So I had two more kids while I was in chiropractic school. And then the youngest was born three years into practice.

That's a lot.

I don't recommend doing it that way.

(...)

(Both Laughing)

It's crazy.

but I wouldn't change it.

Yeah, it sounds like such a good melding of professional interests, how you need to structure your life.

(...)

Kind of the dream. Did you see it looking like this when you started out?

No,

I have learned that it never ends up looking like what we imagined, but I think always for the better, right? I think that

things are divinely planned or,

in line the universe has, God has plans that are far more powerful than we can plan in our mind. And some of that's hard and some of it's really beautiful. And it almost never goes exactly as expected.(...) And that's also kind of like birth.

I would say there are certain pieces of my journey that it's like, yes, I knew that this would be eventually and it's easy to say that in hindsight.

(...)

And when I talk about that, I say like when you get a ping or your instincts or just that inner knowing(...) that I need to follow this path. But I think the

experience and maturity,

(...)

you have to realize that you're gonna follow that path and there's gonna be things that are gonna come up. And then you just pivot and shift as you need to along the path that you're feeling called to.

Did not expect that from this conversation and I loved it.

Yeah, it could be a good end there. Should we end now?

(...)

Right.

Yeah, right. Sure, that sums it up, honestly.

Have you journaled this whole time, like even as with anybody's, because I always had this aspiration and I'll do it for a couple of weeks. It just feels like you are so quiet and you're really tapped into your prayer life or your inner wisdom, whatever that looks like for you.

My kids would laugh at you saying that I am so quiet. My friends would laugh.

(...)

No, I haven't. 5 a.m. Maybe call

the different words.

Yeah, no, not that one either.

(Laughing)

No, I haven't.

But I am better when I do. So actually, I got off track with my journaling and I found the book through a friend and client, actually it's called Something Amazing Is About to Happen.

And it challenges you to do this for 90 days. And so specifically opening your journal first, which I know I have been in and out of practice with like a sacred start or just meditation or prayer, whatever in the morning. And I am a better human when I do because then it's letting my God or spirit in before the world is. I think about starting your day with other people's life. That's so overwhelming. And that's what most of us do.

not gonna lie to you and say that that's perfect, but it's like anything in my dysfunctional progression or core and pelvic floor or your nutrition or whatever. You will use it and you will see how good it is for you and how much it benefits from it. And then you get feeling pretty good and you get a little bit away from it. And then you get humbled and you're reminded, oh yeah, I need to return to that.

Okay, so you are, you have been a doula, you are a midwife now. You own a chiropractic clinic with your husband and you work as a chiropractor.(...) Yes. You wear so many hats, so I'm excited to kind of go all over in this conversation.(...) But let's start with the pelvic floor because I know Callie, she's got some questions for you. My real heavy hitter question for you is, what is our pelvic floor? Can you just describe it in the most basic way?

(...)

Yeah, so in the most basic way, it is like the bottom of your pelvis, that's your foundation.

(...)

Technically your pelvic floor is the layers of muscle at the bottom of your pelvis and your perineum is the external like skin, vulva, labia,

all of that.

(...)

And so when I teach, I tend to refer to perineum and pelvic floor so that people can understand that. The true pelvic floor are the

layers of muscles in the pelvis and the perineum is more external. And it just helps for people to conceptualize because most

women have never even looked at their own pelvic floor or

(...) So I'm trying to do a fair amount of research on my own into this whole pelvic floor thing. I would say the last couple of years, I've really started to dive in mostly because I love to run and I can't right now. Like it's just not good right now.

So why is mobility so important?

mobility for the pelvic floor or mobility in general?

For the pelvic floor specifically.

Yeah, because the most common pelvic floor dysfunction is too much tension in your pelvic floor.

I mean, think about the number of people that are stressed and just like I say, like a tight ass. You, that is your pelvic floor. And you carry that subconsciously.

Yes, Kelly, that's fine. I'm just...

(...)

Same.

(...)

So.

I always think that's, what is it, Ferris Bueller's Day off? Who's like, oh my gosh, it's been so long. He's like, in two weeks you'd have a diamond. I'm like, yeah, that's me. I think his name's Cameron. Yeah, okay, back to you.

So the reason that mobility of the pelvic floor is important is because if you have mobility, you can relax your pelvic floor.

(...)

And a lot of people are walking around unaware of what relaxation on their pelvic floor even feels like to begin with.(...) So if we don't have full relaxation, you can't have proper activation. If you think about if you walk around with your bicep flexed the majority of the day, right? Or even after carrying something heavy for any amount of distance in

bicep curl.

(...)

And then you try to lengthen that muscle. You try to like stretch your arm out. It's tight and it's achy and it's short.(...) And you can't fully contract it back either because now it's overworked.(...) And what is really unfortunate with our pelvic floor is we start to, for

emotional, societal pressure, shame, reasons disconnect from that area of our body from a very young age. So then we're not necessarily recognizing consciously when we're holding tension there.(...) Okay, so if you're listening in, just bring your awareness to your pelvic floor and relax your butt, relax your pelvis, and just like relax your abdomen, breathe into your

(...)

Do you know? And you, it's like, oh, yeah, I was holding way more tension there than I needed to. But that's kind of how we start to live our lives, right? And that becomes our habit. And then we have to peel back these layers of the onion. We have to start with relaxation first.(...) The best way to do that is with breath

(...) Okay, so the next question is how does breath relate to all this?

Yeah, so your diaphragm

sits right under your cage like a tent. And then you have your pelvic floor, which is directly below it.

physiologically, functionally what is supposed to happen, when you breathe in, your diaphragm should lower.

(...)

Your pelvic floor receives that breath and also lowers. And then as you exhale, they return to the start position. I don't say they lift because then we get this like, you have to lift up and in. No, just let them relax. So try that, breathe into your bottom or into your low back.

And try to feel that in your pelvic floor. Emily, try to breathe lower, not up into your shoulders at all. So don't come here, but just let your back and belly relax and then breathe into your bottom.

Like if you were gonna expand 360 degrees of your favorite sweatpants with your breath.(...) And I'll feel a lot of people in office try to muscle through this instead of just getting into the flow of it. It's harder when you're sitting because your diaphragm also works for stability. So the best way to start with it is to lay on your

I did a little bit of this. I did a lot of PT, pelvic floor specifically after.

Cool.

I had a caesarean,

Perfect, perfect. But so I did a little bit of the breath work and it's interesting. I actually hadn't connected it until right now to why it would help identify those muscles.

(...)

So I did a lot of this on her table and just even doing it with you right now. I'm like, oh, this is the point. I can identify them first of all.

Cool, yeah.

Because it's hard to know.

When I'm exercising, I've been like hyper aware, but I don't know how aware I should be. Like if we're doing a strength training workout,(...) should I be exhaling when I'm doing a squat every time? Like, is that something I need to be thinking about with every exercise?

(...)

Right, that's such a good question. So if you're doing a heavy lift, like your goal is you're doing heavy that day, then yes, it's ideal to synchronize your breath, but otherwise I want you to think about how often during the day are you like, okay, left foot, inhale, right foot, exhale, left foot.(...) So we have to retrain our brain. Yeah, we have to retrain our brains.

So not just for 30 minutes a day.

No,(...) no, I mean like you don't think about it during the day because it's automatic, it's subconscious.(...) You have thousands of reps of breath during the day. So what we can do in session is train our brain to perceive the task at hand and respond accordingly. So you need activation of your pelvic floor to walk, but not as much or more than you do to sit, more than you do to lay down. And it's all brain work. It's all your brain perceiving what you're gonna lift and activating without having to do a key goal or without having to really consciously think about it.

(...)

So this is where when we start with a breath, you bring that awareness to those muscles. You can feel what true relaxation feels like. And then you start to feel the difference in activation and whatnot. And there's different exercises that I have people do based on what symptoms they have currently,

(...)

whether it's incontinence or prolapse, which are the big

floor dysfunctions in research, but there are two of so many.

pain during intercourse and just general pelvic pain or constipation or I can't run without leaking or all of those things,(...) hip pain, low back pain that could be either contributing to or coming from pelvic floor dysfunction.

wondering from you, what are some red flags that women, whether they're postpartum or they've never had a baby, just in general, what are some red flags for you? Where you hear that and you think, oh, we should be doing some work down there.

really, truly any pelvic symptom, we should be addressing the pelvic floor. But here's the thing, especially as women,(...) realistically, it should always be part of your practice because of how much emotion we also hold in that. It's like, this is our foundation. Yeah,

so important physically and emotionally.(...) Otherwise you become totally disconnected from your powerhouse. That's a really intimate, powerful,

functional,

important area,(...) like I said, that we become disconnected from due to whatever reason, sometimes trauma, right? Whether it be birth trauma or sexual trauma.

But you will see, so I'll work with women and we'll go through different relaxation exercises and then different functional, like here's how you build stability and teach your pelvic floor to work with the rest of your body.

(...)

And then some major life event happens and there's symptoms come back. And that's pretty common because it isn't like, I can't tell you just do this for six weeks and you'll never have these issues again. It would be like saying, I want you to eat strictly paleo for three months and then you just go off the rails. It's not gonna matter, right? Because our posture is in our, and mostly I think

our stress load and our nervous system tax is what really gets us. So not to get super nerdy, but

your vagus nerve runs right through your diaphragm. So if you're breathing like diaphragmatic breath, you're down regulating your system. Your pelvic floor can relax better emotionally and physically, you're going to be more calm.

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that's a problem with a toddler right now. So, it's totally practicing. But he rags like that daily.

(...) Yeah, but even with them, like if they have a tantrum,

and you come down to their level

and you can hug them and help them, they feel your breath on their chest

and then they will match your breath and they'll start to do that deep. And then they learn those skills. Okay, so it's way easier for me to tell you right now when I don't have a toddler, I'm sitting in a quiet room,(...) but remind yourself, space between stimulus and response is the breath and how we can help ourselves down regulate and they're gonna match that energy.

(...) talking about the breath, we're talking about like connecting two breath and separating from stimulus and you're talking about

all of that works with your pelvic floor.

Quick question before I get to my next question. Are you doing any internal exams part of your work?

(...)

So I do internal exams immediately postpartum, obviously after a baby is born as a midwife, but I don't do any internal exams as a chiropractor or as a pelvic floor assessment. However, I teach women how to do their own internal pelvic floor

exam or release.

(...) It's so easy.

It's so easy. So some women are not comfortable with it and they want to use a wand. So if you go Google pelvic wand, the intimate rows is the first one that'll come up

and there's different options. And it's like a hook.

I recommend getting the vibrating wand because that can help increase sensation and just that

proprioception into that area.

super important that one, you look at your own pelvic floor or perineum and two,

(...)

you think about when we return to intercourse postpartum,

we trust someone else with our body before we even trust ourselves.

Or when you go to a pelvic floor PT, but you've never even like done your own internal assessment, you're comfortable with some stranger doing an internal exam. But like thinking about sticking your own thumb in your own vagina and feeling for tension is like what?

(...)

So I try

people forward into that, like just in the shower or in the tub, insert one thumb vaginally and feel clockwise. If you have areas where you feel like that feels more tense or it's painful, you just hold full thumb, but gentle pressure and breathe into that spot because trigger points are created in the brain. So when your brain recognizes that tension and then you send breath and relaxation into it, we're starting to break up that pain or trigger point pathway from the brain instead of just focusing on

spot.

(...)

And then you insert the other thumb and do the other way. So counterclockwise with the other thumb and you can like kind of press backwards. You can do that rectally if you have tailbone pain and it's chronic.

(...)

And actually

almost every single muscle of the pelvic floor directly or indirectly connects to the coccyx or the tailbone.(...) So doing an internal rectal release can be extremely powerful. It can be like a major emotional release, but can also be really powerful for people that have pelvic floor tension.

Wow.

(...)

You've related emotions to your pelvic floor several times now and it's the first time I've ever heard anyone do this. Yeah, that's insane. Can you tell me more about that?

where I became more, I guess, aware of this is in regards to scar tissue because any areas of our body that we are all energy, right? So any of our, any areas of our body that have more tension or more tissue is going to store more energy.

(...)

And it's both like

emotional and metaphysical aspect of coming out of your head and into your body too, which is kind of emotional for people and in and of itself. It's just intense when you realize like, "Wait, I haven't slowed down in 20 years and here I go and now I've got to like face these

But our body stores all of that. If you've ever read the book, The Body Keeps the Score,

it's really good.

But it's on multiple

lists, so maybe this

is not fine.

Yeah. And just thinking, I mean, no matter what your spiritual practice is too,

some people will talk about your root chakra and that as the foundation

of

your safety. And it's like, yeah, even when you think about developmentally in utero, the way that the body develops and when and everything is so connected to the pelvic bowl and the vagus nerve and the diaphragm. So we store so much there. And then if you want to get even more into the weeds and talk about epigenetics, we store stuff from generations before us.

(...) Let's go. When I first learned that, I was like, "Oh boy."

Yeah, it can be- My cells live in you, Callie.

(...)

I love it.

And it can be super overwhelming or feel like this major responsibility, like, "Wait, I have to heal my entire lineage." But it's also super freeing if you choose to look at it like,

"Oh,

there is far more freedom in my destiny than just like this is how it was for my

It doesn't have to be that way.

When you say lineage, I've heard it can take seven generations or we hold the memories of seven generations. Yes. Yes. Is that how far back you're thinking as well? Are we connecting to the same source?

Yeah, I've heard anywhere between seven to 14. Yeah, I mean, that's like forever, but-

Whoa. Yeah.

(...)

Yeah, there's some super interesting. I have a

colleague who does body code and emotion code and that is wild. Yeah, there's just some really- I mean, you can get into it. So when I got into pelvic floor work, I was strictly like physical. We need to stop having women think that they have to pee their pants and have prolapse just because they've had babies or whatever. And then I developed a functional progression and then there's all these women crying in my office as they start to like come back into their body. And that's where I was like, "Oh, this is so much more than

getting your pelvic floor in shape."

I mean, Emily and I were both kids of the 90s.

I'm thinking about friends or like 90s TV shows. I mean, this is well known, but like just like body image stuff. I mean, we're probably sucking in for all of high school.

Oh yeah.

Yeah. I remember hearing

when I was, I think it was either postpartum with my first or right before I got pregnant with him. I don't know. If you suck in all day, you can lose five pounds and whatever.

What?

(...)

I believe that shit.

Yeah.

(...)

What a great

way to build core without going to the gym, you know?

Yeah, right.

Can I ask you a couple like very quick tactical, like physical questions before we get... Yeah, sure. Okay. Cal is in your office. I'm in your office. Okay. If somebody wants to get back into running, but is for themselves, AKA me, what are first steps? Like, do you really need to wait?

(...)

So you can run. I don't love to take exercise away from people. I love to figure out how we can make it work for them. Because at the end of the day, you're going to want to move the way that you want to move.

Yeah. The way that... Now, if you're only running, then we also have a conversation about what you're running from and why you need a constant endorsement.

Okay, that's all I was doing until motherhood. So you got me. That's literally all I did. I'd like do a plank every now and then, but I just run and run. I wasn't even fast. I'm not a good runner, but yes, I needed the endorphins all the time,

Yeah. So there's that, right? You have to address that piece of it. But so starting with pelvic floor relaxation, so you can take a crappy yoga mat and roll it up or a towel and sit on it the long way and spread one cheek to the side and one cheek to the side. So your sit bones are right on each side of the towel and then sit back up against the wall. Let everything relax and just breathe into your full core. I tell people to breathe into their butt because if I tell you to breathe into your belly, you'll likely come too far out the front and neglect your back body and your back, your pelvic floor.

(...) Or start with laying on your back. Start with laying on your belly. If you lay on your belly and you feel your breath into your pelvic floor, the pressure from the floor will expand your low back and just give you

more appropriate reception.

(...) And then I would start to work you through the functional progression. So there's a sequence, FP1 through 4 in the transitions.

But if you're having active incontinence and or prolapse, I start you with FP4. And that is an inversion, so it's kind of like coming into bare position.

(...)

And you keep your knees nice and wide so that your glutes are activating properly because they're a major part of your pelvic floor function. And then you breathe in that position. So what that does is it takes all the weight off of your pelvic floor and puts it on your diaphragm. And when you breathe into your bottom,

(...)

then your diaphragm has to do a little push up.

(...)

And still your pelvic floor is receiving that breath. But you're also eccentrically loading the diaphragm when you're exhaling slowly on the way down. So then when you come back to upright, there's better relaxation and also proper activation or function in both the diaphragm and the pelvic floor. So the top and the bottom of the core canister, if you will.

And then I would start to progress you through the other movements.

But I would say, OK, do FP4 to

to 20 reps of FP4 before you run. And

down regulate after you get back. Like lay on the floor, do start position for FP1 or something to down regulate your system and relax your pelvic floor again. And a little bit of it is training for endurance too. If your goal is to run three miles, but you pee at one mile, then we go to 1.25 and

see,

OK, what are you feeling in your body? Can you take a break and do some breaths even like on the trail or whatever?

(...)

How can we increase that? But statistically speaking, strength training is important in the long run for pelvic floor function. So it would also be having the conversation about adding true strength training, not high intensity interval strength, not more endorsements,(...)

not more of

a butt kick into your routine.

(...)

So

now I run twice a week and I lift three days a

week.

I love that. That's such a great because I now really like I'm doing the expecting an empowered app.

Yeah.

Yeah, I love it. It's like taught me how to love strength training.

But perfect.

I really miss the other pieces. So that was great. And my last question, I went to a little bit of pelvic floor PT and I need to keep going. I actually called today, Emily. I started off. Thank you. Thank you.

(...)

I was so proud of you. I am.

(...)

Kelly will help like 5000 other people and be like, yeah, maybe I should call my class.

(...)

OK, so when I went, she told me I had way too much tension. I mean, she was doing an internal exam and diagnosing what you've already diagnosed, I think. And she gave me a sheet that she goes, I usually give this to kids, but I think you might need it. It was called the mooing technique.(...) If you know me in a professional way, maybe stop listening to this episode. I'm like mooing while you poop.

(...)

Yes. OK, is this real?

(...)

Yeah, because I can't myself to do it

because you don't have to do that. You could use a pinwheel and like blow on a pinwheel,

but

just getting yourself to relax your pelvic floor.

It's so similar during birth because our jaw mimics our jaw tension mimics our pelvic floor tension and like you have three diaphragms,

your vocal diaphragm, your respiratory diaphragm and your pelvic diaphragm.

And

Oh, so when you make in birth or like when you're having a bowel movement, which both things you need a fully relaxed pelvic floor.

The deep low noises are what relax not the high pitch. When you think about the high pitch, it's like we're coming up and away from that power(...) or with the lower noises, you're like sinking into it and down regulating and relaxing. So yeah, that makes sense. But you don't necessarily have to move.

OK, I can't blow. OK, thank you. I'm going to send you a pinwheel.

(...)

I would do the internal the internal assessment and relaxation for yourself, too. I would

order a pelvic as well. The benefit of doing it

with your thumb, though, is you're feeling it through your thumb and through your pelvic floor, whereas with a wand, you're one step removed.

Yeah, the wand sounds scarier, actually.

But maybe, yeah, OK, I'll start with the thumb. I'll graduate.

So if you're up there with your thumb, I think I know what I would look for in myself now. Having done a lot of internal work with a professional,

(...)

which was really, really necessary because I had so much scar tissue that needed to be

with, released.(...) I mean, there were points where she was in there and

was feeling things deep in my hip and in the sole of that one foot. It's so connected.

(...)

Probably a traitor internist if you're feeling it in your hip. And there's a specific muscle that runs through the pelvic floor area. Yeah, there's different

muscles that you'll do. It's a trigger point. So it will refer to different areas of the body.

So what are you looking for? So if I'm up there, I have data now from my experience. My left side's much more cranky than my right, typically.

(...)

Now I'm really curious. I don't know why I never thought about doing this myself. I want to go look for that. But if Callie is trying to be,

I thought you were just going to say, how do I do this on someone else? I was like, Emily, you're not putting your thumb up there. The way you started this, I was like, that was not on the table. No, no. I'm curious.

(...) So like, what's like, we don't have a

reference point is my point. Like, we don't know. We're not going to, I'm not going to stick my thumb up. Anyone else's Yahoo. It's not going to happen.

Right.

(...)

I don't know what I'm looking for. And my, my basis of normalcy is my own body.

(...) Yeah. But you don't need to compare it to anybody else. You just need to compare it to what you're feeling. And the first step is even going to be like, oh, this is what this feels like if you've never felt that before. Sure. So the very first step is going to be, this is what this feels like. And then from there, you're comparing it to the tissue around it. You're going to know if you can like press down with your thumb and freely move, or it's like, oh, I can't hardly press because it's, there's a lot of tension because of other areas of your body that you've stretched before. And also just your, your intuition and, you know, coming back into your body, you'll feel difference in the tissues and different side to side. And I'm glad that you brought that up because even though there's multiple layers of the pelvic floor, it also can be different side to side. And it usually is because most of us have a dominant side. So there's usually one side that will carry more tension in them than the other.

So fascinating.

Transcription Pending

Okay. So just some, some stats cause Kelly, you were talking about being while you run.

(...)

So apparently that's something that happens to 85% of women in the postpartum. Yeah. 76% are reporting leakage like during daily activities, like normalcy after the postpartum period. 76 is only 76 and only 15% are getting help. So just throwing those numbers out there because guarantee there are many women listening right now who are in a similar boat.

So hopefully this is how I find this fascinating and helpful.

Um, okay. So we've talked a little bit about

right after the postpartum period,

Let's say you get like six weeks, let's say you're cleared for sex or you're cleared for

(...)

arbitrary by like someone who doesn't know your body, but I'm looking for a timeline for when it might be healthy to start doing these things. And if you have any other

or guidances for women who are freshly postpartum.

Yeah. Sure. So with the functional progression specifically, I say between two and four weeks postpartum, depending on your birth. So on medi unmedicated vaginal birth without any tearing, you might be able to start back into some of like F P one.

Or even just like the positions with breath around two to three weeks, but most of the time around four. And then with the C section, you're probably looking at more like four to six because in typically closer to six, because that's such a extensive surgery, which by the way, as you know, does not get near enough PT as it should. It's like you get less information after C-section than you do after a shoulder surgery.

but it isn't like this like cookie cutter. You can do this then because it's obviously dependent on what you're feeling in your

what your sleep is like, what your nutrition is

where you're at with all of that postpartum is so much more of a roller coaster than pregnancy is. Pregnancy is this like linear build to this event that in the big scheme of things gets the most attention, but it's the shortest amount of time and then postpartum is forever and it's a roller coaster because you have another human and maybe multiple of them.

(...)

Plus your hormones are shifting plus all the things.(...) So I say you have to remember to give yourself grace. Again, easier said than done when you're in it. Make sure you have a really

circle, even if it's a small circle of people that you can call on if you're struggling emotionally, because that will affect things too. But just remembering that, you know, usually by three or four months, you can start to return to what your desired fitness routine is. Maybe it's not to the same weight or the same reps or whatever, but that will come.

think, you know, a dear friend of mine used to say, slow is fast. And it's true. The slower that you are more intentional, really, that you take your postpartum recovery, the faster that you will actually fully

That makes sense.

(...)

Sometimes bleeding happens until like six weeks postpartum. And then sometimes between six and 10 weeks is when you see that final sloughing off of the last scab from the placenta. That wound inside your womb is like the size of a small dinner plate. If that was on your leg, you would not be going

But it's internal, so we can't see it.

(...)

And we don't talk about it. And you don't get a manual when you go home from the hospital. Yeah. I definitely want to talk, touch on

your

on what we should be doing more of for women in postpartum. But I'm hoping to start with going to your experience becoming a new mom.

I want to share to your work

prenatal, postnatal, birthing.(...) How did your own matressence or entry into motherhood inform what you do now?

(...)

Yeah. So I

19 when I got pregnant with her first. And I was unconsciously incompetent. I didn't know what I

didn't know. We weren't planning on getting pregnant.

And so I just went to the doctor. It's just you. But there's this like, I wanted a midwife and I wanted a natural birth was this thought. One of those like inner knowings in the back

And it was really medicated. It was highly disconnected. I had every single intervention but a C-section.

(...)

And he ended up in the NICU for precautionary antibiotics.

(...)

And he was fine.

(...)

And then

knew I wanted to be a midwife. So I

started down the track to go to nursing school.(...) I got into the nursing program. I spent a year in the nursing program and I hated it because I felt like I was just learning how to medicate people.

I was like, I can't do this. I cannot.

(...)

First of all, we had a wound care unit.

(...)

And I thought, no way in hell can I clean wounds.

(...)

And then we had a death and dying unit. And that one is sensitive to me now, especially. But I thought I could never attend a birth where a baby didn't live and continue on.(...) So I quit nursing school. And my husband was in chiropractic school at the time in embryology.(...) And I was just studying what he was learning instead of my own materials. So I switched to chiropractic because he's learning how to help people.

(...)

And then we got pregnant with our

the midwife I wanted said she'd be my doula. And I was like, whatever. I don't know what that is. But if you're going to be there, that's great. So we couldn't afford her because we were both in school and our insurance wouldn't cover her in the hospital.

(...)

And so I, she was my doula and he was born

17th of 2010. And by the beginning of August, I was in a doula training with him in Ames, Iowa, because of like that

was phenomenal. And my husband also said I would never want to do birth again without a doula.

(...)

So throughout the rest of chiropractic school, I was a doula for other friends and chiropractic classmates and whatever. And I graduated. So that was 2010. I graduated chiropractic school in 2013.

(...)

And I was a doula for quite a long time. I volunteered to be a Reiki

for this woman that was newly starting Reiki. And during my Reiki session, she was like, chiropractic is a stepping stone. And I looked her dead in the eyes and was like, that's the most effing expensive

stone I've ever purchased in my life.

(...)

I was like, you're crazy. So not really thinking she's crazy, but

I decided that I wanted to be an OB because I wanted to change the system.

Big tall order.

(...) So sweet.

(...)

So I signed up

and studied my butt off for my MCAT. And then so I was supposed to take my MCAT in March of 2020. And then it got canceled because of COVID. And in May of 2020, I was a doula for a friend of mine.

(...)

And I couldn't go into the

So I delivered her to the front steps of the ER department, like about ready to have a baby. And we were met by no fewer than 10 people and full PPE. I mean, half glasses, full gowns. And I was like, no, this is not, I can't do that. That's not what am I doing? This is such a power trip. Like I'm going to change the system, you know, at the expense of probably my mental health and my family.

And so I canceled my MCAT, which had gotten rescheduled and enrolled in school to become a CPM, which is an associate's degree.(...) So got my doctorate first and bachelor's

and then got my associate's degrees.

(...)

And then, yeah, I've been practicing since I graduated in December 23 or 22 in my licensed teen March of 23. And my sister was my very first client.

(...)

She had,

yeah, she had her little girl in July of 23. So I was like, thank you. That was perfect timing.

Yeah. And then we opened our birth center. We moved to locations last July and the first baby was born here, 11 11 of 24.

So there's

been a lot of really beautiful and a lot of really hard in

I didn't realize that it was a full on birth center also.

(...) Yeah,

that's amazing. Because you so much. Oh my gosh.

I'm getting better about that.

(...)

I

hired someone for marketing.

Oh, good job. Well, that's great. Yeah.

were some of the biggest gaps that drove you to take action that you were seeing your own experience, friends experiences? Oh my goodness. What were these, these misses that we were having for women?

Honestly, I think it was the postpartum experience with our son. It's like, what was that? Yeah. Yeah. That

awful.

like I said, there was just this inner knowing kind of like when I pulled up to the hospital and I just knew that's not what I'm supposed to be doing.(...) And like when I was in that class and the nursing

program and like, no, this is not what I'm supposed to be doing. And just feeling that calling and my husband just bless his heart goes along for all of the

But I wouldn't change it because when I was in chiropractic school, I traveled to Prague and the Czech Republic. And that's where I learned everything. I know about core and public

Oh wow. So

I would have never thought I was going into chiropractic school wanting to work with female athletes. I didn't want to be a stereotypical prenatal chiropractor. Everybody is one of those.(...) And I am anything but wanting to be

status quo.

(...)

Apparently.

(...)

So but here I am. Right? Because I was like, oh,(...) this is this is important. We need to not be doing heels and crunches and be focused on aesthetics. We need to bring people back into their body,

teach them how to move.

I tried to go to chiropractor with my first pregnancy and I went to one session and he was like, you have to make sure you keep doing those crunches. I was like 30 weeks pregnant and I was like, all right, I'm out.

I'm going to be crunches when you're 30 weeks. Like sit up.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.(...) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

(...)

Yeah, it does for sure. For

So what about postpartum would you change?

I mean, for me, I had such a strong experience in my postpartum. That's why this podcast exists is we're trying to learn more and shed more light on ways that women can be supported.

First of all,

(...)

ACOG changed their recommendations and guidelines in 2018 and practice has not changed. They've recommended more frequent care that addresses mental health and physical health and sexual health and all of those things, but it's inside of a system that doesn't have time for that. So thankfully as a community midwife, I have 45 minute visits for mom and baby at 24 to 48 hours postpartum and then three to five days if they need that and then two, four and six weeks in office.

(...)

And so we need a lot more hands on in person connection period.

We have to hold

ourselves to that standard as providers or it's just going to continue to be a

shed show.

Well, and even that in person is so important and you've made a relationship with that client. So when they don't know themselves, which I don't think most moms do postpartum, no, yeah, we're in no condition,

(...)

especially in your husband might not know you if it's or your partner, if it's your first, you know, like I know my husband was like, I think this is normal because most women that I know this sounds like a similar experience. And yeah, that was probably true and it sucked.

Yeah, I

know. Right. It's so hard and it's hard. It's a little bit hard to talk about because you don't want to scare the living daylights out of people, but it's hard. And so you have to be, we need more education for postpartum during the prenatal period that helps couples talk about what do you want the first few to be like the first few hours, the first few days, the first

few weeks, the first few months, because it will happen whether you talk about it or not. And then who is in your safe circle? Like who do you trust that you can call on day or night and they will be there. And who do you know that you can share anything with even if you're like, hey, I'm not feeling good and and I think I need to tell somebody that it might be a little worse than I'm even willing to admit because most of the time it's the people that are around us that recognize it. It's not even us sometimes until we're all the way through

Yeah.

And we were never meant to do this alone. We were always meant to do this in community. It's been that way for so many years. It's only been like we need to do everything by ourselves for such a short time and it's breaking women and it's

breaking families because it's

Emily and I really are trying to dive into just what does transformation through the hard look like in motherhood in general.

(...)

And I think a concrete example is that pelvic floor health like most women, even if they have problems, aren't going to get it treated until it's bad enough. Like you had a childbirth experience. It's making things not work. I mean, how beautiful to like have to learn what that feels like. It's so hard and yet you're going to come out so much more powerful once you figure it all out. But it's so hard. And I guess my point is like you are going to just be more and more powerful

more you do and the more you learn. And yeah, it's good stuff.

So you have this wild awakening with your first and then you had three more.

Yes.

(...) Were there moments you point to or practices that you implemented in your subsequent

deliveries, postpartums that were more transformative allowed you to sit in that transformation in a positive way more than in a completely like small shot.

(...)

I

would

say honestly, so our first two were born in the hospital and our last two were born at home. The second, our second son, it was so transformative because I stayed in the place of curiosity.

(...)

I was in this space of did I need all of that or what is my body capable of? And I just really want to see how this goes. And I trusted my doula so much.

(...)

And so even though it was in the hospitals, like that was so transformative. And I think the biggest lesson there is to just like that surrender and that curiosity instead of this is the birth I'm going to have.

We always

get humbled by birth always 100% of

in whatever way

comes up. And so then with the next, I would say the other transformation

occurred was just recognizing

actual natural birth really was because we were at home in our tiny little 900 square foot house in Davenport, Iowa.

(...)

And it was just Kyle and I and he was like, you need to call the midwives. And I'm like, it's not labor

(...)

And they had to drive three and a half hours, four hours to get to me. So

he was like, you need to call

until they arrive 20 minutes before he's born.

And I

was like, can I push? And she said, do you feel like you need to? And in that moment, I was like, what?(...) Yeah. Okay, then push like you don't have to

So still third baby in. Oh, that he would have come way before they got there. If I would have thought I need permission.

(...) So that was also transformative and realizing, wait a minute, I thought I just had a natural birth in the hospital.

(...)

And you just start to realize, holy cow, I have all this inner knowing that has been so shut down and inundated by societal norms and pressures and whatever overridden because of shoulds

trusting other people more than even myself.

So yeah, I would say the middle two are the most transformative in that sort of way, if you will. But each of them changed me for

So beautiful.

(...)

So I'm hearing curiosity is huge, which makes so much sense.

(...)

I'm also hearing you say you left extraneous things that you didn't know were not crucial.

So for your clients who are maybe

able to or not or just women, not even clients, women who don't have access to great midwives and want as natural in a hospital as possible. What are some of the top things that you would empower them to leave behind or say no

my top thing would not be to start with what you need to say no to it would be to start to what you need to say yes to with your

intuition and like listening

to your gut and trusting yourself as a woman and as

If you're still enough to notice, you will know you will you will know what the right answer

it

really hard to learn how to be that still to like we started this conversation talking about that. So it's funny that that's coming back up. And it's really hard when you have small kids, too. Yes. But you know, it's like static noise around me telling me that it's just the most important thing to do.

(...)

Which is also hard, you know, like I'm like, well, I have to get my workout in. I'm not going to journal because I have to get my workout in.

But yeah, just trusting your gut also, I don't think is something that most of us do in this age of social media and experts. And there's just so many resources and so many people smarter than we are, you know, but you're an expert saying, no, you know, best.

Mm

(...) I think I've been humbled enough by birth as a mom and also as a midwife and as a doula to just know that it's bigger than

So if we treated the fourth trimester and actually scratch that postpartum for like the rest of your life,

if we treated that as seriously as we treat pregnancy and delivery currently, what do you think would change for women?

(...)

I think we would have a lot better mental health outcomes and just overall health outcomes because I really think that our nervous systems would actually start to heal and, you know, our lineage would start to heal and it would be really, really powerful.

14 generations really stuck up. Yeah.

(...)

There's this song that I did with a women's choir a while back, but it's called Lineage. It's by Andrew Ramsey. She's a current female composer. Would recommend to listen. OK. It's amazing. It's all about like our grandmothers were strong. And then the very last line is why am I not as they?

(...)

And even when I taught it, like we talked about it and I was like, frankly, ladies, I don't know the answer. You know, it just like is this powerful song that we're going to sing and I don't really know why.(...) But hearing you talk makes a lot of sense. Like we've just, you know, just done a lot of damage over a lot of generations and we're trying to get out of it. But like recognizing that there is damage is the first step.

Yeah.

And that we're still powerful.

(...) For

And not just damage. There's so much good and so

much. Yeah. Proud of in our lineage too. I think for all else.

Yes.

Yeah. I think that's a pride of our grandmothers.

Well, Callie, I have a I have a lightning round ready. I figured you did. I do. But Callie, I want to make sure all of your questions were addressed.

(...) I'm watching all your videos like on Instagram. Like OK, belly dancers have to have perfect pelvic floor.

(...) Is it true?

(...)

I'm sure

Yes, I would love if all of my prenatal clients would belly dance. That would be fantastic. I can't even I would love to do research on what the birth outcomes would look like. But I can't say for sure that belly dancer.

Yeah.

But I'm like, if I do this all, will I be a belly dancer?

Yeah, no doubt. So

that's funny you say that because the local woman that has a dance studio studio had like reshared something I shared yesterday and I was like, we need to host a

class. You need to do a prenatal

belly dancing

class.

I love that. We have a local belly dancing troupe and now I'm like curious to get there. Maybe we'll have them on the pod, honestly.

(...) And I mean, what's the worst that's going to happen? You're going to have fun.

Yes.

(...) Right.

And it'd be really good for my type A. Like I'd be so embarrassed to start.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

OK, I'm like back to you. That's really fun homework for you. See you think about class.

(...)

right. My gosh.

OK. Are you ready for the late round?

(...)

Yes.(...) OK. And one word ish.

(...)

Self care to you is.

(...)

Bliss.

Oh,

(...)

how do you get there, though?

(...) I don't

know. You said one word and that's exactly what he said. One word and that's what came to me.

Just some hot tips.

If you put one thing on a billboard for all moms to see,(...) that would be used for them to work on this one.

(...)

Be here now.

Ooh.

you could make one practice or treatment mandatory for all postpartum health care professionals, it would be.

I would say a breathwork training or public floor training, like mandatory for them to take you mean or to do.

Sorry. It's implementing their care ritual.

Oh, yeah. So I would teach them the functional progression.

(...)

If they do it, yes, if they do it themselves, they will be able to help their clients. And if they implement it in the practice, they will have far better patient outcomes.

(...)

I'm looking that up. We will look it in the show notes. Professional progression. OK.(...) What is the smallest change in your life for your wellness routine that has made the biggest impact?

The smallest?

Yeah, like the most daily, weekly practice that has the biggest. Yeah.

Yeah.

Hands down.(...) The most joyful part of your day is.

(...)

When our family is mostly all together,

(...)

I say mostly because they're growing and they're dispersed, but I just love it when we're all most of the time when we're all together.

That's great.

(...)

And then our closer. What makes you feel beautiful?

Oh, the

things that are coming to me are like sunshine and just like sitting in my egg chair with my journal and my cup of coffee and beans still. So probably beans still.

(...)

That's a new one. Yeah.

Still. This is a theme. You say you're not a quiet person, but there's a lot of practices that really get you

Dr. Eric Boland or Erica, this has been so fun and educational. Thank you so, so much.

Thank you. Where we learn more.

Yeah. There's all the information.

So you can find me on Instagram at the movement midwife.

(...)

Our business website is coolly, C O U L E E health.com. And on the website, you can click on movement library and the functional progression is there.

There's good

exercises there. There's other core exercises there. So I would say look that up as

And I saw you have like packages that you can purchase. Are those online workshops that you can do?

(...) Some of them. Yeah.

Okay.

Like prenatal postnatal.

(...) Mm hmm. Yeah. So the most common one is you can do a consult with me virtually like the core and public store consult with me

virtually. And then I

create a specific plan for you.

cause I was really hoping you were closer to me. You're too far. So that's great.

(...)

Two hours away from both of us.

Yeah. That's a bit.

(...)

Thank you so, so much.

Yeah.

(...)

Thanks,

(...)

I will see you. I got to go get the kids. All right. Yeah. I got to go get the kids. So let me know how I can share and everything. All right.

Thank you so much. Thank you.

(...)