Episode 40: The One for the Mom Building Business & Family Side by Side with Sarah Kaetterhenry: ADHD as a Superpower, Work-Life Balance, & Creating a Life You Love on Your Own Terms

Meet Sarah Kaetterhenry - the Central Wisconsin mom who's rewriting the rules on work-life balance. She started her real estate career the month she turned 30, found out she was pregnant five months later, & has been building her business & family side by side ever since. It's messy, it's real, & it's exactly what working motherhood looks like when you ditch the playbook & write your own rules.

Main Topics & Discussion

Building Career and Family Simultaneously

Sarah shares her unconventional journey of launching her real estate career just months before discovering her first pregnancy. Instead of viewing this timing as a setback, she reveals how having children actually became her secret weapon for setting healthy boundaries.  From pumping between house showings to being eight months pregnant selling houses hours away, she learned that having "little humans at home" forced her to be choosy about clients & opportunities - preventing entrepreneur burnout from day one.

ADHD Diagnosis at 36

At 36, Sarah received an ADHD diagnosis that completely reframed her understanding of herself. After being dismissed as "just a busy mom," Sarah fought for her ADHD diagnosis & shares how it reframed everything. She discusses how ADHD actually fuels her entrepreneurial success, describing it as a  "superpower" that drives creativity and hyperfocus, plus practical strategies for managing symptoms without medication.

Phone Boundaries for Working Moms

Running a social media-driven business while maintaining family connection presents unique challenges that every modern mom faces. Sarah gets vulnerable about the addictive nature of social media and running your business from your phone, & she offers some solid strategies for moderating this. Her approach proves successful businesses can thrive without sacrificing present-moment parenting - & that two hours without responding won't kill your career.

Connect with Sarah: sarahkaetterhenry.com 

Instagram: @sarah.kaetterhenry

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

I'm so excited. We have Sarah, and I should have asked you how to pronounce your last name. Just thinking that. Yeah. Katter Henry. Katter Henry. Yes. It's a great name.(...) Thanks.

(...)

So Sarah does so many things. She's like a lifestyle guru for the Stevens Point area. She also sells homes. She helps people with their social media. She's a mom.

(...)

Sarah, I'm curious what a random Wednesday looks like for you.

(...)

Oh my goodness.(...) I usually don't know until

I've done it.

(...)

(Laughs)

So my day usually ends up looking a lot different by the end of it than what it was looking like in the beginning.

(...)

in the summer, I actually,(...) right now my kids are in daycare, so my husband can take them to daycare. So I'm actually off

duty in the mornings, which is great. So I have my mornings to wake up, journal,(...) go for a walk, check my emails, and then by nine or 10, that's usually when my day starts. Sometimes I will have showings. Sometimes it's a matter of content creation or meetings with people,(...) business owners, or people who are hosting events that wanna be featured on Stevens Point Happenings, which actually I recently changed my handle. So now it's just Sarah Katter Henry,

then closings here and there, errands.

(...)

And sometimes I'll just take a random Wednesday afternoon off and spend time with my kids. And that was the whole reason why I wanted to work for myself and have a flexible schedule. Sometimes I will take a nap. Sometimes I will go in the summer, I'll go read at the pool. So it always looks different, but there's a balance of like some days are going to be really, really busy. And then I try to follow those up with more flexible free days.

That's so nice. It's kind of a dream.

And did you always feel like you wanted to be a working mom? Did you wanna be a mom?

That's a great question. You know, I think I did. Deep down, I think I always knew that that was the path for me, but in my twenties, I think I had a period of time where I tried to be tough and I was like, I don't want kids. I'm gonna travel. I'm gonna keep all my money,

(...)

that kind of thing.(...) And looking back, I really wasn't ready to be a mom in my twenties. So it really wasn't on my radar then.

So it kind of just happened naturally. When it was meant to happen.

(...)

So I definitely think thirties was the right time for me. So I had my first when I was 31 and then I had my second when I was 33 and it's been perfect. Like motherhood has been the best thing for me, but I never dreamt of being a mom. It wasn't like my number one priority, but also I didn't really establish a career. In my twenties, I didn't know what I wanted to do when I grew up

I started real estate(...) the month that I turned 30 and I found out I was pregnant five months later. So I never really got a chance to build the business and then build the family. I was always building them side by side.

This is what I really wanna get into because how do we do that? Especially something like real estate, you've got to hustle so hard. I feel like those first couple of years,

and you're popping out babies at the same time.

Yeah, for the first three years, I was either pregnant, postpartum or I had a newborn of in some form.

And it was a really huge blessing in disguise, I think, because if I hadn't had that to anchor me, it

some boundaries without me volunteering those boundaries, right? I don't know that I had the experience or the knowledge to be able to set the boundaries or know what boundaries I needed to set, but having kids naturally sets boundaries because I remember times that I was pumping while I was driving down the highway to a showing that was an hour away. Or I would have a showing marathon of like nine showings back to back to back. And I would be pumping in between like one house to the next. And so it was like, I physically can't do that every day. I can't do that every weekend. And I learned that really, really quickly. And so I had these little humans at home that needed me. And so really quickly, I realized that I had to be choosy about who I worked with and where I worked. Like I was eight and a half months pregnant, driving an hour and a half each way to sell a $60,000 house. I was driving through like this Amish community. And I thought for sure, I'm like the Amish community is going to help me deliver this baby because-- That's true.

I was gonna say at least there's a midwife in there somewhere. Really good point.

I was like, what am I doing right now? Like I should be home resting. Like I was reading all these books and I would hear from people who would say like, yeah, we took a month off before we had the baby. And we just kind of, you know, relaxed and nested. Not me, I was selling a $60,000 investment property an hour and a half away from me. And I realized like, that's not worth it to me when I'm taking time away from these little babies. So I think if I wouldn't have had that, I would have had a lot of undoing to do because I would have just pushed myself and pushed myself. And real estate is a career with no boundaries unless you're really intentional about studying them. There's no start time. There's no end time. It's nights, it's weekends.(...) And so if I would have gotten started in that it would have been really hard to undo it all.

I have worked in sales, like where I need to be responding to people pretty quickly. And I've had two different industries. One, which they're texting me at 9 p.m. being like, I need this in the morning. And I'm like, oh my God, seriously. And then the other one where it's very nine to five and that's stuff for you. It's really hard when your paycheck is really

on that communication, on that relationship.

And I'm thinking about also we've only bought one house at this point, we've only gone through the process once. I mean, our real estate agent, she's a mom and she was responding immediately. I'm like, is she just always on her phone?

(...)

So how do you even go about setting those boundaries when you need to be growing

family and the business at the same time?

Because I bet these are actually tips and tricks that every mom needs with their phone, regardless if they're a real estate agent or not. You know, you just have more practice.

(...) Yes.

Those are two completely different animals. Like I can set the boundaries pretty easily around when I respond to

calls or for me, it really came down to who I was working with. Because as soon as I started working with other families and other moms, they totally got it. Like they knew that I needed to be home by seven for bedtime. They knew that on the weekends, I wanted to be spending time with my family.

But the phone thing, when you run a business that's on social media, that's a whole nother thing that doesn't sleep, that doesn't have a start time or an end time. And it develops an addiction. It's not that I have to be on my phone at nine o'clock at night scrolling in order to have a successful account. It's just that it does create a level of dependency and an addiction really. And so I have to think about it all the time. I have to think, okay, I'm gonna put my phone, I have a box in the kitchen, I'll put the phone in the box.(...) I really try to protect the time, like five to seven, that we're home together as a family.(...) And I always tell myself, it's okay if someone doesn't get a response in two hours. Like two hours is not that long.

(...)

But it's hard, it's really hard. And it's not a perfect

at all. Some days look really good, some days don't. But I think the reality is we are all addicted to our phones and it's just something that we have to

mindful of every day. If we can just put our phones down for even if it's just one hour a day,

(...)

that is a step in the right direction.

(...) I have a good friend who's trained her five year old to ask her what she's doing on her phone every time. She pulls it out, which is brilliant, right? Because it's like something that she's feeling good about. Like I'm working, I'm setting up this phone call with my friend for later tonight. It's easy to just tell her daughter that.

(...)

Or if it's not, she's like, oh, something that I shouldn't be doing. And then it's also like teaching your kid, right? Like I messed up, I don't need to be doing this anymore. I thought that was brilliant. Have I done it? No.

(Laughing)

I'm like, you go girl.

(...)

Transcription Pending

(...)

fascinated by this ADHD piece, especially as a mom. Like I think it just looks so different for moms living with ADHD than probably any other group of people because you're juggling so much.

So I want to know, I guess, how that unfolded and how you're feeling about it. Cause I'm sure there's other moms out there that would benefit from that.

(...)

Also like what, if you can, even if you're at this place yet, like what benefits do you see? Like do you see the creativity and the, you know, like all of the amazing things

know it's cliche, but I really do think ADHD is a superpower. I think nine entrepreneurs out of 10 are ADHD. I'm learning that.

(...)

Like the people who are like corporate America, like corporate America is neurotypical and entrepreneur is ADHD from my understanding. Like,

creativity, it's the ideas,(...) the follow through on the ideas aren't great, but like the really good ideas that come through at really random times is ADHD.

So I think there's a lot of really great things about being ADHD. And I think that it gives

lot of possibility because, and just entrepreneurship in general, like if your brain supports entrepreneur, an entrepreneurial journey,(...) you have so much more potential and possibility. Sky's the limit when you work for yourself. You know, you get to set the ceiling as far as income. You get to set the ceiling as far as hours you work,(...) as long as you have the regulation and the self-awareness to be able to set those boundaries.

(...)

As far as like being diagnosed is concerned. So I was diagnosed at 36, maybe 37, somewhere between there. So pretty late in life. And it really reared its head for me in motherhood in having to manage all of the schedules.(...) School is a nightmare for me. Like you sent home 500 papers, they are all going in the garbage. I am not going to read one. Like I cannot with like the clutter and like just the organization of us.(...) Oh yeah, me too.

I would prefer if I could just light it on fire, that would be more cathartic for me.

I'm the last day of school. My son came home with like 30 new books. And I was like, who is responsible for this? Like he needed to return. No, like for him to keep, like his reading teacher sent him home with 30 books because he must've told her that he didn't have any books that like he could read at home.

(...)

So like he wanted to practice reading. So she sent him home with like 30 plus books. And I was so angry because I was like, now I have to find a place to store these things. So those are the things that my brain cannot handle. Like I can't handle a toy room where like there's not a compartment for everything. I can't even manage my house honestly. I can't keep it clean because I don't have the systems in place that work with my brain. And so it became really clear to me when I became a mom,

(...)

I was like, I can't function.(...) And the problem I think with being a mom and being ADHD is you go to the doctor and they say, oh, it's just because you're a mom. You don't have ADHD.(...) You're just really overwhelmed with kids and all these things. And that was my first experience. The first time that I went to get diagnosed, it was a sit down interview. And they ask a lot of questions about how you were as a child and how you performed in school. And because I did not have educational problems, I didn't have behavioral problems, he wrote me off and he said, you do not have ADHD. In order to qualify for ADHD, you have to have exhibited behavioral problems as a kid. This is just a classic case of you're a busy mom and you're having a hard time organizing it all and navigating it all.

Well, and don't women mask more typically in terms of being on the spectrum as well? Any kind of neuro diversity, we're much better at assimilating environments and just putting a, yeah. Wow. Absolutely.

Okay, before we, I'm curious,

can you two or three things that really caused you to sit in this room and try and get diagnosed? What were the pain points that were so bad where you're like, I'm gonna fight for this diagnosis?

I think it was the overwhelm. Like number one, I couldn't, my brain was never, still never is quiet or like calm. Like I would wake up in the middle of the night thinking about things that I have to do(...) or having new ideas. And then I would have to figure out like, where am I gonna store this so I don't forget this idea? And it was just always chaos.(...) And it was chaos that was causing anxiety which was then affecting my kids. Sure. So

think that's the hard line for me with anything is when it starts affecting my kids. That's when I'm gonna try to find a solution.

(...)

So that was one thing. I'm trying to remember, I listened to a podcast.(...) It was the "Gold Digger" podcast and she was interviewing Tracy Aksuda, I think is her name. And she's an ADHD, I don't know, expert or something or a therapist. I'm not even sure. But she was breaking down all of these different

(...)

like signs and symptoms of ADHD in women that I had never even considered ADHD. And I was listening to this podcast and I was like, this is all me, all of this. I resonate so deeply with every single thing she's saying. And it was like the rejection sensitivity,

(...)

time blindness. And I was like, those are real things, what? And so

was I think when I really kind of started to consider it. And then I have a friend here locally who is a huge ADHD advocate. She was diagnosed when she was young, two of her three boys have it. And she was getting certified to be an ADHD coach. And so I talked to her all the time. Anytime I had a question, anytime I was struggling with something, I would always go to her. And so she really

me to advocate for myself. And she knows a lot of, she researches and she educates herself on all kinds of ADHD things. And so when that doctor told me, you have to have exhibited signs from elementary school, she was like, that is a very old parameter. She's like, that's not even accurate anymore. So it helped me to have someone like a sounding board. If she hadn't had been there, I may have just been like, okay, I'm not going through this again. Cause it was like, I don't know, it cost me over that appointment, cost me over a thousand dollars and it was such a recent sign.

He was like, gosh.

Yeah.

(...)

And so I was like, I probably wouldn't have done that again, but I had a support system that, and then I continued to educate myself and I continued to feel aligned(...) with the things that I was learning about ADHD. And so that was what gave me the confidence to continue

(...)

to seek out that diagnosis.

(...) So then moving forward, how has that helped you just function in the world?

You know, that's a great question. Not much has changed. I am not on medication. I tried a bunch of different medications, different dosages,

and I never found one that helped. They all made me feel worse. And I also learned that like stimulants, and I don't know if this is like scientific or not, but I've read a lot of research that highly sensitive people are sensitive to stimulants. And so I would identify as a highly sensitive person and the stimulants made my anxiety so much worse. So it was essentially like kind of fixing one problem to create three more. And like, I'm not looking to do that.(...) And so I am not on medication. For me, it's really just the knowledge, I think,

it forces

me to give myself grace. Because if you are expecting to act as a neurotypical and you're not neurotypical, you are going to beat yourself up all the time. And so I think for me, it was just this like veil was lifted. Like I don't have to be so hard on myself that I don't operate like everybody else. It's okay that I don't operate like everybody else. And I'm going to work to find the ways that I do best operate. So I am seeing a therapist who specializes in ADHD.

(...)

That's probably been like my most helpful tool. But for me, it really just comes down to different strategies of doing things. And I'm constantly learning.

I wouldn't say I've made any massive changes,

I have found peace in being able to tie that back to like when I was in high school or college, for that matter. If I was in a class that I cared about and it was a topic that I was really interested in, I'd get an A, no problem. If I wasn't interested in it, you could not pay me to put the work, the time, the effort into it. Like I had to retake math classes. I had to retake science classes because those are things I just do not care about. And so because of that,

(...)

I've had this limiting belief for so long that like I'm not smart. I'm not smart enough to make as much money as I want. I'm not smart enough to like run my own business because look at this evidence. I got these bad grades in high school and college. And as soon as I was diagnosed with ADHD, I realized that it wasn't that, it was ADHD because when you are ADHD, you hyper focus on the things that you are interested in and the things you want to do and the things that don't interest you, like you just can't force yourself to care about or do.

I live this every Saturday when my husband and I have a list of things that need to get done.

(...)

Right now we're trying to show our house and then your future. So it's an extensive list. And I've learned that no matter how I order this list, somehow anything involving a power tool always gets done first. I'm like, actually that was literally the bottom of the list. Don't you remember this conversation when I was like, if that gets done fine, if it doesn't, like there's all these other things we have to do. He was like, no, I really think you said that like, that's what we had to do.

Here's my question. Because I think my brain is more similar to Kevin's than yours. Why the hell are you putting those on the list? Just cut off the bottom half of it. You're right. That's what I should have done. Why are you even putting the candy in front of

space? You're right. This is repeating. Just hide the power tools and.

Oh my God, like, come on, optimal. Like set the poor guy up. You just, I was laughing not because it was funny that you thought you were bad at math and science, but because I'm like, oh, same. You're literally just crazy. Yes.

(...) Everyone's going through a journey right now. We'll have to update you. I know.

(...)

Oh my gosh. What's really sticking out to me too is that like, A, you have to fight for your diagnosis.

(...)

And then B,(...) you're finding that some of the standard solutions are actually not in your best interest.(...) So there's just so much work in A, getting yourself to the point where you have the information you need. And then further on, you still have to keep putting a lot of effort and energy into making sure that the solutions are actually well for you.

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah, you know, knowledge is power, right? And ADHD is very genetic. So it's like, if you know you have ADHD, like your kids have a 50% chance of having ADHD. And so it's like, that's important information for me to have. And whether or not, maybe in the future, I will choose medication, but I don't think it's not all about getting a diagnosis so that you can get medication. I think it's just so that you can work, understand your brain better and work with your brain better and then be able to give yourself some grace.

And probably parent better, right? Like if you see that in your own child, then you're in a special position to like understand them, I would imagine. And yeah.

For sure.

There are also parallels for me in hearing you talk about like, well, optimizing the things that you're interested in, that you're really good at,(...) which you already did when you decided to strike out on your own with your business. Like having a mom forced you to go deeper, not wider.

(...)

And you transformed the way you were

professionally.

totally. Because I was spending all kinds of time on Instagram. Like I loved Instagram. It was a little mini obsession. And so I was like, how can I turn this into something more productive? I'm already gonna be spending my time here. I might as well do something a little different. And the other thing about me is I am an Enneagram for, which is the individualist. Like I hate being like other people and I hate doing things the way other people do them. And so I was the only person, there was nobody, there still isn't doing social media in the real estate world in central Wisconsin.

(...)

And so I was like, I have to do this different. And then it did become like a little obsession. And I've been very hyper focused on my community and just the local aspect of my business for the last four years.

(...)

Wow. So if you were to break down, give me kind of like a pie chart of real estate versus social media advising,

(...)

what would that look like percentage wise for your business right now?

of my business is still real estate. I'm really trying to figure out the consulting and the training and the teaching, the digital products. That is like a five year plan. And I really do think like it will be launched within the next year, but that's more of like a long-term like exit strategy almost, because I know that it's not sustainable for me to stay in real estate like this.(...) Cause you can have boundaries, but at the end of the day, there is still always going to be a sense of urgency with real estate. Like I can set boundaries that I don't work on the weekends, but if a house comes up and someone wants to write an offer on that, it just happened this weekend. I worked all weekend because I was negotiating an offer. And the alternative is that someone doesn't get the house that they really, really want. And that's just not, it's not an option. And so I don't know how much longer I can do that. And I don't want to do that for the entire, until my kids are 18 and they're out of the house. So I'm trying to build something else, but it's really hard when you have something that's new and uncomfortable and you don't exactly know how to do it. And it's going to take a lot of time. And then you also have a business that you do know how to do it.

And you're good at it.

You're good at it. And you can continue to scale it. So like where are you going to choose to spend your time? Like you're probably going to choose to spend your time here where it's comfortable and you kind of know what you need to do versus spending the time on what you don't know what you need to do.

So I would say it's less than 10% at this point, but I would really love to grow it to the point where it's 50, 50.(...) And eventually I would love for that to be my primary business and real estate can be done

as it's convenient or for friends and family. Or like, I just don't want to have to rely on real estate because it really is

demanding.

(...)

So I wanna hear more about your business. Let's circle back to that because it's so tied to your lifestyle and championing other people's lifestyles.

But in the fresh throes of motherhood,

(...)

what was something that just totally shook you, shocked you? You weren't prepared for,

For me, it was, we had our kids pretty close together. So we had two under two for a while. And it was that transition from one to two that threw me completely off of any sort of level ground for a really long time.

wasn't expecting it. And that was also when my business was starting to transition, like I wasn't really new anymore.

I also had my second drink, COVID. And so that was also changing the way that my business was running and the way that the office was running. And I was really pretty much a solo agent.

an apartment into our house two months after my daughter was born. So there was a lot of transition in a really short period of time. And so I would say we didn't come out of that haze until she was like three years old. Like it was a really long

season.

a long time.

(...)

What are you doing during that time to keep yourself afloat? Because like not only do you have to be

for your kids, but you have to be showing up for clients.

I mean, the typical self-care, you know, I tried to be really mindful about taking time for myself, at least once a day, whether it was journaling or taking a bath after the kids went to bed or going for a walk, but that's not

guaranteed solution. You know, like you can do those things. They don't make you instantly feel better. A lot of times I think they just maybe keep you at baseline and they prevent you from sliding deeper.

(...)

But I also, a year after my daughter was born was diagnosed with Hashimoto's. And so it was like for a whole year, like the first year I was fine, like the weight was coming off. I was like, it was pretty, a pretty similar situation to postpartum with my son. And then like right around her first birthday, I started gaining weight and I gained like 30 pounds in three months. And I hadn't changed anything that I was doing. I was so tired. I was sleeping like 12 hours at night and taking like a three hour nap during the day. I was so sick and I didn't know why. And I went to a number of different doctors and after probably six months of trying to figure it out, I got this diagnosis.(...) And so then for that following year, that was really what put me in my place of like, I have to be really mindful about my health. Like I don't get to be willy nilly about this anymore. I had to cut out alcohol. I had to cut out caffeine. I had to cut out gluten. Like I had to make sure that I was putting in those self care pockets into every day, just so that I wouldn't find myself in like a really bad flare up.

And so that was really what forced me. If it hadn't been for that, I don't know if I would have had any systems in place. That really forced me to make time for myself and my health.

And that's a thyroid

right? Yeah.

Yeah. And I mean, dairy too, am I remembering correctly?

(...)

It doesn't help it.

(...)

But I never, I never got to the point. I mean,(...) I'm a Wisconsin girl at heart. Like cheese was, is like, if I can't eat gluten, like it's gonna be cheese. Like if I can't have carbs, then yeah, I will be eating cheese.(...) That's the only way I'll get any sort of protein or joy. And dry.

Joy and dry.(...) Totally.

(...)

Transcription Pending

(...)

Transcription Pending

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So what are these shifts you're making in your business then

freshly in motherhood. My first is gonna be two next month.(...) He's gonna get a sibling in the fall. Like we are in it. So I'm just like, who have been through it? Tell me everything. When can you breathe again?(...) So three years for you after your second. That's a long haul.

(...)

It was.

My daughter is, she is a spicy second born. Second born.

Yes.

(...) Just the epitome of like your strong headed girl who's like gonna do some really cool things in the world.

But it also makes for like some headbutting and for

once she turned one and she could kind of like start moving and communicating in her own way, she got really, really difficult. And-- I've got one of those.

Just thinking about Nora.

From one to three,

(...)

she cried every day, not at daycare, not if she was at grandma and grandpa's, but only when she was home with us. She would come home, like she would wake up crying. She would cry until we dropped her off at daycare. We would pick her up and she would cry in tantrum until we put her to bed. And one of my worst moments in motherhood, but also it illustrates how that season was for us, was one night

you know the

drawer at the bottom of like a stove?

Yeah.

I didn't realize that that is not just for storing pans. Like it also gets hot. Like it is an actual warming drawer. And so one night it had gotten turned on somehow and she was playing with it. And she shut her knuckles on it. And it was hot, but we didn't know that. And she screamed for the rest of the night, but that was normal. And so we had no idea that she was hurt until the next day she woke up with like third degree burns on her knuckles.

And we had no idea because she cried like that every single night. Like that was normal. Like I couldn't even tell the difference between like a hurt cry and just like a whining, tantruming cry. So I felt absolutely awful. The next day she was fine. She woke up and it didn't bother her at all, but I had to bring her to the doctor. And I felt so awful because we just let her cry on that and she was in vain. And so that was how she was from one to three.

(...) Oh my goodness.

That's crazy. Yeah.

(...)

And now two years, two years after the, like how are we doing? We're good.

We're really good. She's really fun. She's hilarious,(...) but she's funky and spicy. And she

her mindset on something and it's hard to tell her otherwise. So she's just such a stark contrast from our son who is like very quiet, very much a rule follower, very, they're both very emotionally intelligent and they're both very like lovey, but in different ways.(...) Like he's just so sweet and she pushes everyone's buttons and has to have her way. And it has to go the way that she has it in her head or like no dice. So they're just so different. I think you're describing my children. Yes.

(...)

It's like you start over because how can two people create two humans that can be so different? Like they're both being raised by the same people under the same roof and they could not be more different. So it was like,

almost felt like she was our first all over again, but except that we also had a toddler too that we had, so it was just really hard. But now I love that they're so close in age. Like they really,

siblings. Like so of course they fight, but they get along so well, they support each other and I'm just so glad that they have that in the other person.

(...)

I see their friendship, which is really cool.

That's the dream. It is, 100% is. And for them to have someone to play with and like they do their own thing together and they explore the yard together and that's just really important.

(...)

Yeah, that's really cool.

So I'm just like thinking back to when I had my first baby and how isolating that feels.(...) So you're a community builder. Like you love to create community for other people.

Were you finding community at that stage or

Like when did community become so important to you?

started shortly after I had my daughter. So the account itself started in 2021. So a year after she was born,(...) but no, I did not. And I don't think I opened myself up to the community aspect because it was so hard. I just sort of wanted to like keep my head down and do it myself. And like, I'm kind of like a hyper independent person, which apparently is a trauma response, which makes perfect sense.

But like, I like to do things

like on my own. I don't love to rely on other people. I'm kind of a control freak. And so

shared what I was going through and I shared what was hard, but I didn't really open myself up to let anybody help me or support me, you know, it was just. Are you a realist?

Mm-hmm.

(...)

(Laughing)

Yeah, I definitely am.

(...)

don't know, maybe it was in that that I started to realize how important community was, but when I started getting messages from people, like, thank you so much for sharing this. Like, I don't feel alone or like I'm experiencing this too. And that was really when it started to click for me that

connection is such a core value of mine. And it really, it made me feel less alone. It made me feel valuable. It made me feel like I could have an impact beyond just selling houses. Like I can connect with these people in a totally different way. It doesn't have to be real estate related.

(...)

And it's much more meaningful when it's based off of something that we're all collectively going through.

So I think that's kind of where it started. And then I, with kids, you're trying to get out of the house. You're trying to like find fun things to do. And so then it just sort of naturally clicked. Like, these are the things I'm doing with my family. I'm sure there are other families out there who want to do that as well, but they don't want to pack up their families, get there and it's a total bust. So maybe I can be the guinea pig and do that and then report back on like what's worth it and what

huge. And I feel like I'm listening to you and I'm like, oh, I think I'm going through a similar thing because I've always been quantity over quality. Yeah. Reverse that quality over quantity.

(...)

Personally,(...) not being on small talk, also have had a very relationship driven career up to this point.

And so now with having a kid, I'm like, you know, sometimes presence is just enough.

(...)

Like someone just needs to be there with their kids saying, oh, I see you, I see you, this hard thing.

(...)

That has never been my experience as an individual before. But as a mom, I'm like, why is that so powerful? It's just, it's really necessary.

So tell me as you're building this community, I also know small talk is not your jam.(...) How do you build

my sense is you're kind of one of those super connector(...) people that like every mom wants to know. How do you build the quantity but keep it quality? How does that feed you? I guess I'm asking a couple different things at once.

So the quantity comes organically. Like if you are putting out quality content and you are genuinely concerned about people first, and you're not in it just for a follower account or like

or whatever it is, right? Like you're genuinely there to help people and connect people. I think that has to come first.

And if we take that offline, what does that look like

You know, most of my connections do come from Instagram. Like most of my clients find me on Instagram first.

Or they are a referral from

client who probably found me on Instagram.

(...)

So I think that

reason that I wanted to build my business like this was because I wanted to put myself out there(...) without

saying yes or no.

do I say this? Like the rejection thing, right? The rejection sensitivity. I don't wanna pitch myself. I don't wanna go to a listing appointment. I don't want to sell directly to you and say, hey, do you need a realtor right now? I wanna put myself out there wholly and authentically so that you can see who I am.

And so then when those people come to me, I find that we have

connection because they already know I'm a mom. They already know what I like to do because we've had that, they've watched me for so long. So I don't feel that I necessarily need to know everything about someone else's life for us to have that connection. As long as they know me and they know who I am and what I stand for and they connect with that, we usually get along so much easier and there is no need for a small talk because they feel like they already know me. Like that's what everybody always tells me is, I feel like I already know you. I love that you share like all the hard stuff too and not just the highlights. And so that is almost like the icebreaker. Like people don't feel like we have to do this back and forth small talk thing. They already know who I am.

That's brilliant, actually.

(...)

So Callie and I, I won't really struggle with social media. It's just like so annoying to me.

(...) (Laughing)

Like I love it when people comment, I love when people like, I actually love a DM. Like that's where it's fun for me.

Well like the real community building, right? Because that's an actual real interaction conversation.

Yeah. But we both talk about it and we're like, oh my God, we did long form on purpose. Like I don't wanna be an influencer. And now just listening to you, I'm like, well, you're really making a case here, Sarah.

(Laughing)

We're sharing part of our actual lives.

I'm like finding more amazing moms quickly. I mean, yeah.

(...) So when you do it right, yeah, you kind of do just a raise to small talk, which got how much time does that save?

So are you connecting

with moms like outside of this? Like have you made friends in central Wisconsin through Instagram then? Yeah, I have.

(...) I have, and you know, I'm not a big friendship person if I'm being completely honest.

Wait, say more, what do you mean? Is that something people say? Exactly.

(...)

I don't have a lot of friends. I don't have a great track record with friends. So I love that.

(...) (Laughing)

And so because of that, I think I put up this

like protective armor where like I don't want to get myself in more friendships because I don't want to lose them. Or like, I feel like I'm a failure or whatever stories I have in my mind because of my past.

It's easier to busy myself with my kids and my family and my job. But recently I have realized that I am very lonely and I do actually want friends

I would love a best friend. So this will be like my shameless plug if anyone's looking for a best friend in central Wisconsin.

(...)

(Laughing)

You know that we were cool to go so much.

Right.

have met the friends that I do have and that I have felt comfortable enough nurturing relationships with have all come from Instagram. And some of them I have not even met in person. Some of them are realtors in different states.

So it's just really cool because again, it sort of takes away that pressure of meeting friends is kind of like dating again. So it takes away that need to like take time out of your schedule and sit down at a restaurant or over drinks or whatever it is and try to have conversation.(...) It progresses so much naturally over Instagram because you share a story and they comment and they share a story and you comment. And before you know it, you're like, this is someone who I'm voice messaging on a Tuesday night asking them what they think about XYZ. So it just progresses naturally because the pressure is less, I think.

That's really fair. Like if they don't respond or if, you know, I'm not gonna run into them at pickup and we're gonna have to like awkwardly, yeah, that's not gonna be a thing.

Follow who's,

Oh, Emily Von D. Oh yeah. She's so funny. She had that story about how she's like trying to make this mom friend in the pickup line and she ended up just like slapping her butt. She walks away like, why did I do that?

Like what? It was like a compulsion. Yeah, like out of body experience, that was funny.

(...)

(Laughing)

It's just hard, it's awkward, it's hard.

(Laughing)

Yeah, super resonating with the mom dating. Cause also I'm kind of like, you seem like such a cool mom.

(...)

(Laughing)

And then it's like if you're trying to make friends with someone, right? And then it's like,

oh, but that's kind of a green, like a red frag or an orange flag, which I'm not a fan of that trend in dating. And I'm not a fan of it in life either, but sometimes it's kind of like you hang out a few times and it's like, ooh.

Like, you know pretty quick. Yeah. You know, if you're clicking with someone

Do you mind if I ask, what do you mean by you don't have a good track record?

You know, I just, you know how most people, they have like friends from high school still or friends from college and that just isn't me. And

of my friendships have ended.

And when I look back on it, I think it has a lot to do with like now I'm at a point in my life where I can look at it and I can evaluate it and see why, but I think a lot of it is like the ADHD and like the rejection sensitivity. Like anytime I feel rejected or

feelings are hurt, like I'm out. I'm not having a conversation previous me. Like now where I'm at in life, I can sit down and have a constructive conversation with someone. But when I was younger, I was just like out right away. Like it was like a one strike type of situation. Someone hurt my feelings or like wronged me in any way. And like, we weren't sitting down to have a conversation about it. I was just like out.

And so I think it has a little bit to do with like my attachment style and just, you know, my history that I never really dug into until like now when I'm like in therapy and things like that. But

just never, I never really realized it or attached it to those things. I just thought, I'm not a likable person. I'm not cut out for friendship or whatever it is, you know.

(...)

And I think it's that stereotype of like women and drama. And like, I always found myself in that. So then I started to think like I'm the problem. So I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna steer clear of it.

Wow.

Thank you so much for sharing that because you give off like popular girl vibes.

Like I love it.

(Laughing)

Sparkly and warm and you've seen a lot of success in life. So that's actually shocking to hear. And I think really relatable. I think so many of us feel that.

Yeah, friendships. And I think as we get older, they get more complicated,

(...)

and

also, it's hard to find time for complicated. Like when you have kids in a business and it's really easy to craft this story. Like I don't have time for anything else that's gonna be hard or complicated or messy. And there's some truth to that.

Yeah, I have an hour for a coffee date, but what I have is energy to manage that.

Yes. And for the social pressure.

Yeah, yep. I actually just have that chunk of time. And that's it. Anything else surrounding that if it's gonna complicate my life too bad.

Right.

Mm-hmm,(...) yeah. So there's some unwiring or rewiring I think that has to happen around that. So that's sort of my

next 10 year goal is for me to have some friends.

(...)

Before we get to the lightning round, you mentioned journaling at the top of your,(...) top of this conversation.

Do you have a ritual that you love for journaling? Is it free form? Like what is journaling look like for you?

(...) Yeah, I always try to start with gratitude that is like the basic, you know, I try to find 10 things that I'm grateful for and really it has, for me it's turned into more of a,

diary. Like the reason that I do that is like I try to pick out like the moments in the day that

really made my heart burst with the kids or whatever, because someday we're not gonna have, I'm not gonna have videos of every moment, even if I do, I have like 30,000 plus things on my camera roll right now. Like I'm never gonna go back and be able to like find them all. And so I just want some sort of

something that I can look back on and remember these days with my kids. So yes, it's gratitude, but it's also like trying to pick out the key things from my day that I'll be able to like look back on someday and like piece together like where I was at in this season of life.(...) So that's like the very first priority and if I only have time for that, like I'll stop there. But I also try to do a lot of like scripting and visualizing and just like writing out how I want my life to look and feel like in the present tense.(...) So that is like tricking my brain, like where they're already kind of thing, just because with the ADHD and anxiety and things like that.

And with my job, I know that my nervous system is very dysregulated.(...) And so I just want to always keep in mind like the feeling that I'm going after as opposed to my actual goals. Cause I'm the kind of person that will like obsessively chase goals and then I'll get there and I'll be like, okay, let's just set another goal because it doesn't feel like an achievement. It just feels like a checkbox. And I have found that if I can identify like the actual feeling that I'm chasing and how I want my life to feel, then those goals will feel better. So that's really what I try to write out.

That's so interesting. And what's the famous quote? Like people don't remember what

did or I don't remember the first half of it, but it's really the end result of this quote is people will always remember how you made them feel.(...) So you're just kind of personalizing that in your own life.

Okay, Sarah, are you ready for a lightning round?(...) Yes.

(...) What's your favorite local spot on a Saturday morning?

(...)

Oh my goodness.

(...)

I would say Ruby Coffee and Steven's Point. That seems to be the consensus.

(...)

Really?

(...)

(Laughing)

People love me.

(...)

Ruby is great.

(...)

One thing you can't leave the house without besides your phone and keys?

My hydro drug.

(...)

Like emotional support water bottle. Like I've had one since college. Like I always have a water bottle with me.

Same.

(...)

Same. My almost two year old knows.

(...)

Mama, wah, wah, mama, wah. He's really concerned if I'm without it. Okay. Dream vacation destination.

Oh good. Right now Hawaii.

(...)

Have you been?

Good one. No two hype song when you're headed to a showing.

(...)

Ooh.

You know who I absolutely love is Andy Grammer. I just think his music is so happy and joyful.

And I could, oh. I've never heard of him. Oh my God, he's so good. You would, if you hear some of his songs, you'll know.

(...)

But he has one that is literally called Joy and he has songs about loving yourself. They're just so good. They're all so good. So I would probably just put on the Andy Grammer channel on Spotify and just put it on shuffle. But the Joy song is a really good one.

I love it. New one for me, I love it.

(...)

Cats, dogs or chickens or none. What's your jam?

(...) You know, I identify as a dog person but my kids will tell you that I'm like not really a dog person. I don't actually love dogs the way that a dog person would. So I guess I would say I'm none, but we do have a dog.

(...)

I feel like getting a dog in motherhood is different. We also got a dog. I thought it was a dog person. I'm like, kids,(...) dog. Like, I'm sorry.(...) Yeah, it's just what it is.

Same, that was me too. Like we had her before we had our kids and once we had the kids, it was like, I don't have the bandwidth.

I can't. I don't want you touching me. I don't. Yeah. Yeah.

(...)

That is not just me.

Yeah, I know. I felt really bad about it.

for like, I lost her like six months ago cause I like let her out and forgot that she was out there and like she got picked up by the new maid society. Like I am a terrible dog mom. I have no business having a dog but I'm also heartbroken.

(...)

Best piece of advice you've received either on career building or motherhood.

I think it really is like showing up authentically as yourself wherever that may be is going to attract

right people. So it's like not trying to be for everyone and being more mindful about who you are trying to attract.

It's a good one.

What is lighting you up the most right now?

I'm in a really big, like I think 2025 is a big transformation year for me. And so I'm really, I'm getting a lot of ideas. I'm leaning into a lot of these ideas. I'm creating a lot of new things and I do love to create. So I think just the idea of like scaling my business to where I want it and starting a new business endeavor and being in the messy middle of it, as hard as that is, is really exciting. And it's really like

of the bright spots in this season.

(...)

That's cool. It's fun to think about.

You need to keep us posted.

Yeah.

(...)

What local business you think everyone needs to know about?

I love tapped maple syrup. It is just like the best.

They have different flavors and they have cocktail syrups and the blueberry syrup is my absolute favorite. And I think they are just the sweetest family and it's just a really

experience to like support someone like that in your community.

(...) Cool. Okay, I have to look them up.

(...)

Last question. What makes you feel beautiful?

That's a great question.

I don't even know.

(...)

You know, like getting older, I think I have really doubled down on like skincare and taking care of my skin and having a routine. And ultimately I think it's that. Taking care of my skin, finding the products that feel good on my skin. And it's like now being a mom, like most days I'm wearing like athleisure wear. So it doesn't make sense to have like a full face of makeup with athleisure wear. So it's like finding the products that like make sense for my lifestyle, make my skin better.

(...)

I think that's what really makes me feel beautiful. Like healthy, glowing skin.

(...)

It is, you look great. You're thinking your skin is glowing.

(...)

Under a like ball hat.

(...)

I do love hats. Hats also make me feel pretty cool.

(...)

Pretty cool. I need to update my stash.

(...)

Maybe you can send me some of your faves. This has been so fun and also just thought provoking, informative and so relatable. So thank you so, so much. Thanks for having me. It flew by.

I know. I know I looked at the time. Whoa. Like I'm not ready to be done.

I know, me neither. Let's keep it going.

(...)

Well, we'll have coffee sometime. If you want friends, we got you.(...) Okay.

(...)

Ruby, we'll all go to Ruby.

Yeah, not Ruby.

But I'm

Thanks Sarah. Thanks Sarah so much. It was so great to shot.

Bye.

(...)