Episode 44: The One for the Mom Craving a Reality Check with Kate Arbogast: The Gap Between Reality vs Expectation, Bounce Back Pressure, & the Healing that Comes with New Life

Kate Arbogast spills the tea on seven months of new motherhood - from realizing she's not actually a baby person (despite being a kindergarten teacher) to balancing roles with her partner differently than she imagined. Raw talk about bounce-back pressure, unexpected grief healing, and why modern mom villages look nothing like we imagined.

Main Topics & Discussion

The Reality Check of Early Motherhood:

Kate drops some serious truth about the gap between expectations and reality. Despite being amazing with kids professionally, she discovered that babies (even your own) can be complete mysteries. The instantaneous intimacy of motherhood hit differently than expected: suddenly you're responsible for keeping this person alive, but you've literally just met. No coffee dates, no getting-to-know-you phase - just immediate, intense responsibility for someone who's essentially a stranger.

The Bounce-Back Pressure Is Real (And Mostly Self-Imposed):

Seven months postpartum, Kate has started a new job, become a dance fitness instructor, and expanded her social circle. But here's the kicker - most of that pressure to achieve these things came from within. She talks honestly about overcorrecting against the fear of losing herself in motherhood. The internal battle between wanting to maintain your pre-baby identity while also being present for this massive life change is exhausting and rarely discussed with this level of honesty.

Grief, Legacy, and Unexpected Healing:

Kate opens up about losing her father eight years ago and how she expected his absence to hit hard during Ruby's birth. Instead, she found unexpected healing - realizing that Ruby carries pieces of him genetically and feeling his presence during labor (which happened to fall on the anniversary of his death). Sometimes the anticipation of grief is worse than the actual experience, and sometimes new life brings surprising comfort to old wounds.

Links & Discount Codes:

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

So now Kelly knows what a body con dress is. Yeah, I do.

(...)

Like a con? Is it con? Yeah, it's like contour stands for.

OK.

Yeah. But it's like, you know, when you were, you know, 21, going to the club, you might wear the dress.

(...)

I had like a couple back in the day. And then I feel like but like they're they're kind of cute with the bump because it like really shows the bump.

Wait, oh, yeah. It's kind of cute before the bump. I mean, I had a good time in a couple.

(...)

I bet it wasn't that cute.(...) Hey.

(...)

Rude.

(...)

There was a time in a place, I think. Oh, my God. I wouldn't anymore. I can tell you that.

Yeah.

(...)

What seven months postpartum. I have not worked.

(...)

No. Yeah.

OK.

Wait, Nick.

(...)

Well, yeah, two next numbers. Anyways, maybe this is a good time to clear our listeners in. We have Kate Arbogast in the room with us, which like isn't

such an epic name. That is so epic. I was going to say something about it. I didn't want to interrupt your flow.

I didn't change it.

I don't want to

say Arbogast. Yeah.

know. I feel like nowadays, like there's this hard thing of like, does your kid have your name? Yeah. Your husband's name. A combination of both like Arbogast. But we just couldn't do it.

Mine have a no. Oh, and it is tricky.

(...) I what is it?

(...) So my husband is rule and I'm O'Leary still. Our kids are all rule legally with the apostrophe.

No way.

(...)

felt so good about it. And I think I still do, except for people are so confused. Like insurance. Are they really? Yeah.

(...)

Well, you and Kevin were definitely going to also switch your last names to both be a rule.

Right. Yeah. And you didn't plan. Well, no, it's like two court dates and like a thousand dollars.

(...)

That just doesn't seem like a Christmas present that I want. You know, I just get five a thousand dollars. That's not what I'm doing right now.

Yeah. Two kids and three on the way. There's other ways to spend that money.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anyway, so you have a great name. All right. So, OK.

Yes. Hi. Yes. About what's happening in your life right now. It's what is it today? Like today's Wednesday. What does normal Wednesday look like for you?

Well, this week has been a little wild because I just got back from my mom's wedding in Eugene.

Whoa. Whoa.

Yeah, I know. So that was big for a lot of reasons. It was Ruby's first wedding. And like I didn't see her for like that. You know, she just got like passed around and I would be like, she was like on the dance floor and like it was so fun. And she were the cutest outfit.

Was she in it?

(...)

Yes. Oh, my God. So she was the youngest flower kid. So all the grand grandkids were the flower kids.

Oh, stop.

And she was the youngest and some of them are older. So they pulled her in a wagon.

That's so cute.

It was so cute.(...) Oh, my gosh. Did she cry down the aisle?

No. She was like the perfect age where she like wasn't really aware of. There were 200 people at this wedding. She like was not scared or aware at all. And like just learned how to sit up like last week. So it was like perfect.

Good timing.

(...)

Honestly.

(...)

Which I feel like that was a mild mark, mild mark, mile mark. That was a mile marker for me.

(...)

Where I was like, oh, there's enough core here. I just felt better about like it's the first one where I was like, oh, physically, I feel better about you being passed around. I feel better about you.

Oh, yeah. In the world.

You could put them in a hiking carrier right at that point.

Yeah, which I'm excited to do. We haven't done that yet, but yes.

So Ruby's your first.

Mm hmm.

Does Ruby.

She's seven months.

She's seven months. So you are seven months a mother on the outside.

I am. Yes. And the other big news I think in my life is that I'm about to go back to work. So I've been on leave for this whole time, which I feel so fortunate for. Yeah, it it really has been amazing. I was like.

(...)

Hesitant to do it like I almost went back to work in the spring and like everyone in my life told me not to

like work is like such a huge part of who I am. I'm a teacher and like it is. I always thought

You're going to want to go back because that is like just such a huge part of your life. And then I had her.(...) And like it changed. I always wondered, like, how is my relationship to teaching and work like going to change once I had her and like it has changed a lot.

(...) How what age group do you teach

kindergarten in first grade?

I'm putting her in child care next week.

(...)

Wow. That's big. How are you feeling?

(...)

think it's going to be harder than I thought it was going to be.

I think I'm going to just like sit outside and cry for the first day. I don't know what what do you do with yourself? I don't know.

I think you did that for like the first year. So.

(...)

Are you working that first day?

No.

OK, so you're just like giving yourself the press. So you're not crying throughout your work.

They will. They're amazing. They like offered a few trial days. So we're going to do like three half days there.

Great.

And then I start work the following week.

Oh, man. That's a lot. Well, we're going to go back to this. But I'm curious, like big picture last seven months.

(...)

What shook you to your core?

(...)

About becoming a mother.

(...)

I think it was like the instantaneous like intimacy of the relationship.

when you think about it,

There's no other relationship like that. Like there's no coffee date with your baby. There's no like getting to know each other. It's just like they come out and it's like, bam, you are like China sucking out my boobs and I am wiping your butt.

(...)

And we don't know each other.

That's so true. I never thought about this, actually. I'm so thrilled to be thinking about this. Yeah, we really don't know each other. We haven't seen a picture. It's not even like here's the bio. Here's a few pictures swipe left or right. It's like.

(...) Just bam, here you are.(...) And like you are kind of like the center of my universe now. But like I have a whole life.

(...)

All these things like all these people and like all these things I've created in my life that like all of a sudden are less important. And you are now kind of like the most important. You're the person I'm keeping alive. You are like the person I'm thinking about all the time. But I don't know you. I don't have a relationship with you. And like I think that that was a lot harder for me than I thought it was going to be. You know, like I I think that was kind of the source of a lot of my baby blues

like such intense. You know, the demand is just.

(...)

Unlike any it's like the hardest thing I've ever done.

And then.

was grieving a lot of the things that were like kind of on the back burner.

thought I was going to feel like an instantaneous connection to her and it didn't happen for a little while.

was so surprised by that because I'm a teacher. Like I love kids and like I'm really good at building relationships with kids right away

me and was really hard.

(...)

Because you can't build a relationship with I mean, you are obviously in a fundamental level, but not in the way that you do professionally at all.

(...) Exactly. And like it's a very different kind of relationship. And it's one that I've really like grown to love.

And like

I now

understand how to interact with her. But

Like I didn't been around that many babies.

You know, and she's kind of a potato.

So they don't do anything. They don't literally. It's like I'm trying to get to know you. OK, which of the five cries are you doing right now? I don't I don't know. Like, yes, can you give me anything? Give me something here.

Yes. I don't know if I'm allowed to say this on our mom podcast, but Emily and I are both like not baby people.

Oh, yeah.(...) People like

I remember with my first, my husband was so much better at soothing him. And I was just like shocked by that.

Me too.

So wrong. Yeah.

Yes. And it like killed me. I like thought something was wrong with me. And like I would cry because like she would calm instantly. I like she wouldn't really sleep on me. I think maybe because of this eating thing. I don't know.

So how long until you started feeling the connection? Because by the way, like we should look up stats. But this is so common. It's so, so common for the bonding to not take place right away. Yeah. I don't think people talk about it enough.

(...) I don't either. And I did hear it. So like some people would warn me that I was just like, it won't be me. Like, I'm a kid person.

Yes.

(...) But I'm not really a baby person either. I don't think

(...)

they're hard.

I feel so bad. She's like in the other room sleeping. I'm like, trashing her. I love her. OK. She is like,

first few months.

(...)

Yeah, it didn't. It took it took longer than I thought.

that was my experience as well. I mean, I just to make you feel a little more validated, like really wasn't

ready for it. And that was really hard. And then the more milestones that like Charlie got to just the more connection and the better it is. And now he's four and it's so fun. But it was really, really hard.

OK, so it just keeps getting better. That's what that's how I'm feeling.

Yeah. And they say terrible two is terrible three. At least it's funny then, you know, like you have some really hard days, but they're also so funny and like they can talk.

Yes. And I think I've just going to like, I don't know. I think I'm going to know what to do a little bit better. Yes. Well, she can talk to me.

Yeah, it's reciprocal.

Yes.

Yeah.

I can communicate with them.

I'm like a professional tantrum witness. Like I I feel like I'm ready. I don't know. Maybe true.

(...)

But I have already found

I've set boundaries with kids for like a living. And I can already feel that is going to be harder with her.

even just, you know, like we've done a little bit of sleep training and stuff. And like I always thought

oh, it's going to be fine.

made kids cry. It's fine. But it is like.

(...)

But it is so different when it's your like that cry. They're like physiological response, the nervous system response to your baby crying. Yeah, I was not prepared

It's crazy. Did you ever feel I felt like like terrorists had hijacked my brain? Yes. At different points for different reasons during postpartum.

Yes, you can't focus on anything else.

(...) OK, so you've had this intense postpartum period and you're still in it. Like I'll acknowledge that. But are there any reoccurring wins or just like joys that

you can think of just in becoming a mother, this matressin's journey for you?

There's been so much joy in it, I think.

You know that like SNL skit,

got a rope, the mom got a rope. Have you ever seen this? No, no.

OK, just by the title alone,

you should look it up.

It's like

this family like

all the kids and the dad and the dog are all getting these

incredible presence and the mom just got a robe and it keeps like going back to it. It'll be like, I got this, I got this. And mom's like, I got a rope.

(...)

Yeah, I love my rope, guys. Thank you so much. And they're just like spirals.

she's just like.

it's kind of sad and she is just like there for them to like see them and take care of them. And I was like, that was kind of the image of a mom in my head this whole time that I was going to like become that just like a sad mom in a robe.

This whole time

during postpart shows to get pregnant. Yeah, like what time period?

Kind of the whole time I was kind of like, all right. I think what I'm trying to say is like I thought I was going to lose myself. I thought I was going to just like become this sad mom in a robe and like.

(...)

And you still were like, yeah, let's carefully plan this pregnancy.

(...)

For this month,

there is some biology.

And well, I was I think biology and I was like banking on like this incredible love that I was going to feel and like.

(...)

don't know if she's going to be born and then all of a sudden I'm going to like have a mom haircut, you know, like. But it it has not been like that.

I have been kind of amazed by.

personal growth that I've been able to make during this time and like

the skills I've learned and the people I've met and

things and places that she keeps kind of like bringing me to. It's like this.

It's definitely new and different, but like I'm a better version of myself and I

expecting that

In the time that she's been born,

got a new job and like. Yeah.

That's ballsy. Like, hey, I'm going to do a hard thing and really put myself out there while I'm fully in survival mode.

I wouldn't necessarily recommend it. I think I'll say a little bit of this is me like I think I was overcorrecting. Like I was so worried that like I was going to lose myself that I would like forego a nap to apply to a job.

I like want to keep parts of myself. Right.

I started a dance fitness class and like have been become a dance fitness instructor during this time.

Oh my in seven ways. Yeah. Hold on. Well, to your pelvic floor, can we hold it in there too?

Yeah. We need to check it on the pelvic floor.

If you said dance and I was like, whoa,

I don't jump you guys. I don't.

(...)

It's it's been great. And it's at a women's only gym. This is like a huge cool, cool thing that I've like become, you know, introduced to is like this great gym that I go to. That's like babies are allowed and you. And it's all women. And like, I'm just I'm loving that like new part of my life.(...) It's great.

Seven months is not a lot of time. Not a lot of time. All of that personal growth. I mean, I know. Yeah, that's amazing.

(...) I know. I think I pushed it a little bit hard, like too too much.

Especially because I had a C-section. So oh, you did. Yeah. So it has been

physical recovery that has been more demanding than I thought. And I think.

I pushed it a little bit.

(...) How are you feeling physically?

(...)

Really strong now, like I feel I'm I'm not

near where I was, you know, of course not. But like I'm starting to run again. And I I don't know, like

(...)

I think a big part of.

a mom that I wasn't expecting is like how much more connected to my body I am, like I.

I think I respect my body more and like take better care of it, because I'm like, damn, dude, like you did. I cannot believe that you did that. You know, like I have.(...) It's amazing to me

what I've accomplished, what my body has accomplished.

eat better and I stretch more and I like.

Have been really trying to like ease in. I mean, I know.

I think I push this dance class a little bit, but like in general,

I used to just like not listen, you know, I would be like really hung over and just like go on a run, which is stupid.

Not in your body.

Yeah.

OK, see, I still think that's the move. You just sweat it all out.

(...)

OK.

(...)

I don't know. I haven't been hungover in a long time, so I don't know. Maybe if I am again, I'll try it and let you know.

That was early 20s galley hocking.

(...) So it's terrible.

(...)

so there's more like gratitude and intuitive.

(...)

Like

here's what you need, body. Like I'm going to listen to you.

think so. I also have to because like, yeah, I have a huge scar in the middle of my body that like is healing.

(...)

So I'm stuck on this mom in a robe.

(...)

Yeah, let's go back to the mom in a row.

But when did you decide that you wanted to become a mom? Like, how did that journey look?

(...)

You just really wanted a new robe

and you're like, well, she's like, you know what? There's got to be something that makes me sign up for the robe for 20 years.

(...)

mean, I think I've kind of always known that I wanted to have a kid and I.

(...)

I think it was always more about that than like becoming a mom.(...) I think becoming a mom was a little bit of a means to an end. Like I want to have a relationship with a child. I want to I want to like watch a child grow up

requires that I like have this identity as a mom. But like

it's become now

becoming a mom and like calling myself a mom is something I think I'm the most proud of now.

if I was listing identity markers.

(...)

I think it would be one of the ones I would list first.

And like out of it now versus before you might be like, oh, you know, I'm not.

Yeah,

like I'm a cool mom. Yeah. Yeah. You know, now it's like, yeah, mom. And now that I know how amazing that is, like, yeah, hell yeah.

Yeah, it's like such a source of strength for me and like such a motivator.

(...)

Like I.

(...)

I approach everything differently now. And like that is kind of at the center of it.

And.

(...)

I wasn't I wouldn't have expected that.

mom identity being a driver.

(...)

Yeah, like just.

(...)

Being so proud of what I've done and feeling.

I guess I just was like,(...) a lot of people are moms. It's just like not a big deal. And now that I'm here and I am one, I'm like, oh, no,

(...)

this is it. This is the hardest thing ever. And it is the most incredible journey that I'm on. And I am like just so grateful. But I.

I wouldn't have expected that.

I think I had a really beautiful childhood and my my parents were incredible. And I really like

I think that was a big motivator.(...) I really like wanted to be that and give that to someone.

It's so funny. I also.

(...)

Was like, oh, you know what? Babyface, you just have to do it. You have to get through it. We can get through it. We can do hard things, you know, because I was like, yeah, I want it. I want to have a family. I would like kids. Yes.(...) We'll just kind of get through the baby phase.

We will get through it.

Yeah. It up. It will be fine. It will be hard. We'll lose some sleep. It'll be whatever.

(...)

And now looking back, I'm like, how did I miss the complete paradigm shift that was about to bludgeon me in the head? Like, I don't because you do their moms everywhere.

(...)

Yeah, actually, now that I'm a mom, I'm realizing so Kate, you are back in Seattle. I'm realizing like when I go back to Seattle, I'm like, OK, there are like not that many moms versus like the Midwest. There are so many more.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah, it's also interesting just like how we treat moms like the mom figure. Why is it kind of this mundane, laxative goal? Like, oh, it's just a mom.

(...)

Yes. Or like, on the day that we were that Ruby was born,

my brother and his wife brought us these hats and like mom, like they say mom and dad on them.(...) Right.

That's funny.(...) Like in case anyone had any questions.

(...)

Yeah. And we like wore them around the hospital and it was like very funny and cute. There's all these pictures of us being like, here we are. Mom and dad.

(...) Yeah.(...)

But the funny thing about the hats is that like it's hanging in my closet and I am never going to wear that.

The dad hat is funny, right? Like he sometimes

wears the dad hat, but there's something about the mom hat. And I've asked my friends about this and everyone agrees, which like we're all feminist, but like there's something about.

Yes, like identifying as a mom, walking around wearing a hat, saying mom is cringy.

Totally. Yeah, I had is like that. I feel like why is it a joke? Dad shouldn't be jokes. No, it shouldn't be.

But I feel like the dad hat is like there's like dad joke shirts, you know, there's yeah, I don't know. It's more of a meme and like moms

I don't know if we're not as funny. Yeah, it's it's not.

(...)

That's interesting.

I'm going to sit with this. This is going to haunt me for a few days.

OK, get back to me.

Yeah, because I'm like now I'm picturing like, oh, does the baby get a onesie now? Being like, not the milkman's. What is it about? Like, why do we want to identify the dad publicly? Like, why is that an urge?

(...)

I don't know. Anyways,

I think it's probably sexism, but

I mean, yeah. Yeah. But also, you know what? I'm feeling like never OK with sexism, but as I step into this mother world. Yeah. We're like, where are you going? I don't know where I'm going with this. But no, as I'm like sitting more in this.

(...)

These super defined roles defined by the baby.

And it's more I mean, I'm thinking about like.

(...)

Couples with two women, two men, whatever, like the roles can be outside of gender, but I'm feeling so set in my gender and Kyle, too, in a beautiful way.(...) But so foreign, so alien, so different from each other.

(...)

In a good way, like it just fits. It works. It complements. It's necessary. The difference is so necessary,

(...)

which I never had an awareness or a curiosity about that part of becoming a mom.

I think I've been fighting that a lot.

But like maybe there's nothing wrong with it. I don't know.

It became really necessary for us.

Especially with sleep training, I think as he got older, just the different calls that Kyle was able to make that were less emotional than mine was just really helpful. We just started operating as a team in a way that was cool.

Like what?

(...) The sleep training was it was the first where I was like,(...) I'm not I refuse to listen to him scream like this is not. And Kyle was like, this is what we need to do. Like Kyle will be the first one to say like, this is what we need to do for the family.

And I feel like there's always one.

(...) Like, yeah. Well, what does he need right now? You can't tell me what he needs. He's like, does it matter if we all are getting what we need? You know, isn't that better?

I played that role with us. It was way harder for him.

Wow. OK, say more.

He kept trying to get in. We would be like she would be crying for 10 minutes. And he'd be like, can you please go in there? And I'd be like, no.

Well, that's way worse, though. Like if you're going to kind of like if you're going to do it, you have to do it. You have. That's right. So much worse to just like ease and oh, God, so confusing.

And I

was like, I kept like my.(...) Yeah, my like drive was that like it's so much worse for her if we prolong it.

(...)

Like the kind thing to do is to like rip the bandaid off and do it all at once and

So on this subject of just like new, new, new, new, new, new, new, new hats, literally.

(...)

What new traits do you have?

(...)

I think anyone who knows me will know this. Like I have so much FOMO and like I am so like, what's the next thing? Like I feel like I was always like chasing something and always like I love to plan and like I was always like trying to on trips. I'm always the person like trying to get everyone out of the house. Like my friends will laugh. We'll say the best. Like I am.

always I think was just always trying to like maximize life and like always trying to like get out of the house and do stuff. And I was like always that like force.

And now that I have her,

(...)

I I think it's a good thing. I'm like so much more grounded and like I don't feel like I'm chasing things as much

(...)

you know, your iPhone,

(...)

like how it'll your library will like compile

(...)

like little videos and stuff.(...) Yes. And the titles of the slide shows keeping like May at home June at home.

(...)

Like, thank you. I get it. I didn't leave my house.

(...) We know we were there. Like, thank

you.

(...)

That's funny. But you're OK with it.

(...)

Yeah,

times when I get stir crazy and like it's starting to feel a little bit like Grandhog's Day. And I'm excited to go back to work and like use those skills and like be with other kids like that's good. Yourself and like it's good. But it was not as hard for me as I thought it was going to be to like(...) be here with her and like just you know, doing nothing. Like, what do we do? I don't know. We I like feed her pancakes and lay on the floor and like

I don't ever want to be anywhere else.(...) And like that is huge for me.

think it's a good thing.

Like, well, I think it's a necessary shift. And I didn't make that shift till baby number two. I'm really when I have some like personality similarities. And if that's also why I'm least, you know, maybe compatible.

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

with my first I was just so stir crazy and I just like didn't accept that. And I just like wanted to run still and I wanted and it was so hard for me. And my second when I started to it was just so good for me(...) and still hard, but it's a necessary thing.

(...)

I think it kind of needs practice when you're a doer and a goer and a planner and you can't absolutely.

It is a skill and I am I'm grateful for it. I mean, I did start this podcast by listing like all the things I've done. So like I am.

Doing stuff.

I've been thinking that this whole time. You're like, you're at home. How long were you at home, Kate? Those day, those months.

I thought you were getting a job, Kate.

(...)

I know. I'm becoming a dance instructor.

I know.

(...)

But like it could be worth it. Could could have been worse.

Transcription Pending

(...)

Transcription Pending

Transcription Pending

(...)

Oh, well, this is a good segue to another curiosity I have, which is like the bounce back. So we know your thoughts on the rope, the rope.(...) We've heard that. I can't wait to hear that. I know. I'm really excited to Google it. But like you've mentioned you pressured yourself(...) maybe a little too much, but also feel good about the growth. Right. Like so many. Yes.

Yes. There's so many things to hold.

Like, but like did you feel pressure to bounce back from yourself, from others? Not at all. What was that piece like for you?

It was all from myself. Like it was all like, I think fighting this identity.

like I want to be more than just a mom, so like I'm going to recover and get a new job and like do all the things.

But like I realize I'm contradicting myself so much because here I am being like, I just sit at home. But then I'm also like, I

(...)

do all these things.(...) But I think like.

Both are both are true.

I do feel a groundedness that I didn't feel before.

(...)

And I also think that like as I have.

(...)

Become.

Like more comfortable with the identity, I think I've slowed down a bit. And I also have like all these new things in my life that are driving me. So, yeah, bounce back. I'm not about it. Like I I don't like that pressure coming from anyone else. And in my in myself, like I I see it mostly as like(...) a negative thing that I'm kind of trying to fight. And I think with baby, too, I will have to have a C-section. Like I think one of my biggest goals is to like.

let myself recover a little bit more.

(...)

I think that like.

we didn't have a lot of people around helping us. And I had to.

I like had to get out of bed more than I should have, you know, and like I had to hold the baby, even though it was like so painful.

(...)

And like my goal is to like try to.

I don't know, like setting things up so that I can recover better next time.

Which is hard because I like I'm thinking about that. I'm due the end of October and I'm trying for a V back. But like, you don't know, like, you don't know.

Yeah.

But if you are walking into your second being like, this is probably going to be a C-section.

(...)

And I need more than I had last time. That's a whole thing to contend with.

Yeah.

(...)

In it in some ways, I think it's a blessing that I know that it will be

because I can be really intentional about like how I want it to be different.

(...)

Yeah, that's a good perspective.

(...)

Yeah, you've

been in the same area for a long time, right?

Yeah.

So you have longtime friends there.

Yeah, I think I just need to tap them more.

Asking is so hard, but

it's harder than I thought because everyone always says that, like, ask for help. Like, that's I feel like everyone's number one piece of advice. And I just didn't do that at all.

Even if a friend says, like, let me know what you need, like, you don't know what you know.

You supposed to know what you need.

No. And like, we don't have a relationship where you like do my laundry. So like it's not that's not comfortable for me. Like, I don't know.

Well, in the village these days, the village like is more Uber Eats and Instacart and higher cleaner and higher cleaner. And, you know, how fast can Prime get that to me? And yes,(...) that's just not a real village, frankly, in my opinion. I know other moms feel differently depending on their situation.

(...)

But that's not the person who's going to come in and look you in the eye. And be like, OK, do you also just need me to hold your baby for you while you try and shower?

I totally agree.

But then you have to trust another person to hold your baby, too, which is a different level of life.

Yeah, some some do and some don't. You know, it's it's

was that hard for you.

It was only hard for me when he was crying.

(...) Like, crying is a big trigger for me in a way that is like a

handicap. What do you call that?

(...)

Hindorance. Yes, thank you.

(...)

We got it.

(...)

I'm so bad at words these days, I can't believe that I actually.

It's shocking.(...) And you're about to go teach kids how to read and write.

(...)

So you're going to probably handle that level.

Yeah. But I mean, actually, I'm stepping out of the classroom. I'm going to be in an intervention role. So I'll be like more of a support staff.

So you're going to make way more kids cry.

(...)

Yeah.

I'm really happy for you. I'm really glad you made that shift.

Well, that's yeah, that's the thing is like I that's why I started applying to jobs was

her and I realized the demand and I realized this like shift in my life, I was like, I need to get out of the classroom.(...) And so I really pushed myself to like

do it

because it was a move I was making so that I could step back more.

(...)

Which I just want to say, like whoever is listening that can make a change. America like moms make great teachers. And yet I didn't want to do it anymore. I didn't want to do it anymore. I mean, like there needs to be a world in which amazing teachers can be moms and still be amazing teachers. And it's just really hard.

(...) Thank you for saying that.

Yes. I mean, I don't know if anyone listening can do anything, but hello. Hello. Hello.

(...)

I think about that all the time. Like I can feel that I'm going to be a better teacher.

terms of like the way that I interact with kids, just knowing that it's somebody else's baby. And like that,

which I've always known that, of course, but like feeling that.

It's different.

It's different. And like I'm going to communicate with families differently.

because I know how I would want to be communicated with

I started sending a lot more. Your kid did this well today. Yes.

(...) Yes. And like pictures and stuff

I'm really curious. I've actually been wanting this this whole time. I'm actually so thrilled that you basically are not a baby person necessarily.

(...) I'm just I don't like three monsters on a podcast.

I'm so delighted to hear that because when I heard you were pregnant, I was just like, oh,(...) easy. Yeah, she's going to ace this. Like that's what everyone says. And I and you are. I mean, like look at your past seven months. Oh, my gosh.(...) But my next assumption was, oh, she's so good at tiny brains. She's so good at the development piece, which you are. Kelly, if you ever hang out with Kate in person, she will like release your inner child for you in like 20 minutes, like on accident.

Get you doing dance routines in the kitchen.

OK.

(...)

Are you able yet to tap into her developmental milestones? Because that was something that was also just not of interest to me in the baby phase, I was so thrilled to have in-home care to help.

(...) Thank you for saying that. That I was working.

(...)

Yeah, I'm not.(...) I mean, I've always said like, because people will always say to me like,

(...)

you're going to be such an amazing mom because you're such an amazing teacher. And I'm like, no, I feel confident in my ability to be a mom when when they're like four. Yeah.

(...)

Four to like 10. I feel like I'm going to nail. Hopefully.

(...)

And then you're in luck with, you know, middle school, high school. Oh, we're all terrified, right?

Terrifying.

(...)

I am so it's the baby phase. I've always had it like the baby phase and the high school phase. Like I am so out of my league. And that has been true. Like I have been.

interested in the milestones and stuff. And like the development, I think, is less motivating to me than.

I and I think also there's a little bit of like, I want her to stay baby. So I'm like, not I'm not really like helping her learn how to crawl. Also, everyone tells me not to do that, because then once they crawl, like your life is 100 times harder.

Oh, everyone says that. That's some bullfish. I think it's way easier when they crawl. What? You should teach them how to crawl because I didn't do that. I think that's stupid. Like they'll figure it out when they figure it out. But there's so much happier. They're more content because they can get where they want to go.

Yes, I think. I don't know.

I don't remember there being a shift on easier or harder, actually. Oh, I feel like it was when he could start pulling himself up on stuff. It got harder.

(...) Why? Oh, because you were scared he was going to fall.

Well, because I was in denial that I'd really have to baby proof my house. So that's on me.

(...)

Yes, it's very nice like cream colored furniture.

(...)

Plants all over like dirt at hand level all over.

(...)

I like my palms. What can I say?

(...)

isn't this funny? You're like, you know, not a baby person. Also, please stay baby forever. Isn't this just it's so weird? How we are

just full of contradictions today. But yes, I think that's like what this time is like. It's so

all the contradictions.

It's all the things that once

I mean, I will say like every new thing she does is amazing to me. And I want to text everyone. And then I'm like, that's very boring. No one no one wants to like hear that she took her first bite of pancake.

(...)

but it's I've like taking a video and I'm like.

Oh, my God.

(...) I love these Megan McClure. Who's yes, my mutual friend.(...) She will text me wins sometimes or just like a random onslaught of pictures of her kid. Just like positive. I never love it to be that person doing it. For some reason, I just always hesitate to do it. And it's so stupid because I have a few friends, Megan, to do who do that. And it just brings me so much joy.

I love it when she does that, too.

Yes, like I just it's amazing.

Yes.

So it's part of the like mom hat thing. You know, like why don't we want to just like celebrate? Like that's really cool. Like would you send yourself on a mountain? Maybe, you know, like you'd post on Facebook or whatever. Oh, yeah. Like doing something cool like that.

Something on social. You're right.

When a baby learns to eat, it's like a huge survival thing that they're like. It's huge. Yes, it's huge. Feels embarrassing to tell your friends about.

I think like I want to backtrack a little bit. Like I think like the development, like living it, watching it happen has been incredible. Yeah. But I don't I don't like no baby development all that well. I just don't I don't feel like.

I am like.

On it, I'm googling all the time and like I'm just barely ahead of her. Like, oh, she's probably going to start, you know, like pulling up on stuff soon. I should like read about that. Like I don't I don't feel like kind of the ownership of it. That I kind of just feel like I'm like right along there with her. And watching it is like one of my life's greatest joys.

But such a high.

But it's not.

I'm not like in my teacher mode.

I'm going to be when she starts reading, you know, or like

grading her performance.

(...) No, because I don't know.

I heard which is maybe better in this phase. When you're teaching kindergarten and first grade, there's things that they just like should know. But babies are so different. I don't know. I just develop so differently, too.

Yeah. And they just kind of do it. I don't feel like there's that much I need to like to set up for her to like.

Just make the growth that she she's just kind of doing it.

Yeah, I felt the same.

And here we are on a podcasting like babies.

(...) We don't know. Literally.

(...)

OK, so I have a theme of like complete contrast.(...) I'm curious when you feel most.

Empowered, energized,

(...)

most self

this crazy time, the last seven months. I'm curious if you're grounding yourself in things that you used to like to do or if it's more. Wow, here's a new thing that I never knew I'd be really into. This is actually more me than I ever thought.

Yes.

Would be

I think both

things I think

and exercise are like giving me so much life and like making me really feel connected to like.

body and and my life before and like I'm enjoying more. I think I took it for granted. And now I'm like, oh, my God, running feels so it's so hard, but also feels like I'm so happy.

But I will say like I didn't realize parenting is just so much like vicarious joy. It's so much

watching her be happier, watching her like try new things or meet new people that I love.

Is just.

Everything to me like taking her swimming.

And like.

(...)

Introducing her at this wedding like that, my mom's wedding, like I introduced her to like all of the people that basically raised me.

Oh, yeah.

And like I was just like teary the whole time. It was just and so were they just was so meaningful to

It's like this full circle moment, you know.

I told my husband he's a comedy person and I'm not like he's like.

He enjoys observing while absorbing it or creating it.

Oh, so I was like, and I am not really into either.

Like he might know the the ropes get he might.

Yes, oh, he would love us. Yes, he's a big fan.

anyway, so I'm like, OK, let's watch a movie. We're going to watch Father of the Bride because you love Steve Martin. This is going to be a great movie. Took us two nights to get through it because parenthood. But anyways, and I remember watching it like growing up. Yeah, we're both sitting on the couch just sobbing.

(...) I'm like, it was supposed to be funny.

(...)

But once you watch that, watch

this baby girl like grow up(...) and experience marriage and like her dad giving her away, it's like joyful. And I mean, we're both just wrecked.(...) It's just it's just shocking how yes, motherhood changes you.

I guess it really does. Or like listening to music is so different for me.

not just like songs about parenthood, like any song about and love it like hits so different now because I just feel like it's about her and like.

was surprising to me, and it's really beautiful. And then I just like

then I like try to sing to her and I can never remember like a nice song to sing to her. So I'm singing like Lizzo Apple, but of Jean.

(...)

Try to get her to sleep.

(...)

But I'll be like in the car driving around, like listening to some song that like, I don't know, I never would have thought of it being about parenthood. But all all love songs feel like they're about parenthood to me right now.

(...) It's so raw.(...) It's just yeah.

(...)

How are you and T-Luk, how are you fitting into your new move together?

We it is like so up and down.

seeing him be a dad is obviously like something that I've been looking forward to for an embarrassingly long time.

Why is that? Isn't that just like we're mammals, right? Like, isn't that kind of like if you're not thinking about that when you meet your future partner?

OK, thank you.

I don't know. I mean, you are even if you don't think you are, isn't that what they say?

Even if you don't want kids like we're all animals.

(...)

you're normal. It's fine.

OK, great. It was early. But but he he's amazing with her.

But like I think a it's getting a lot calmer, but the it's the screaming like primal,

(...)

like nervous system thing that like when she was crying and we were both just like so escalated and then we were just like snap at each other. Yes, because it's like, yeah, that energy was hard. It was hard for us to navigate that together to like try to stay calm and be kind to each other in these moments when like my skin is crawling and I want to jump out the window because I can't get her to stop crying. Like that was that was really hard for us. And like she's not doing that as much anymore, so it's much better.

I think the other thing is like

(...)

that it feels like your partnership is like keeping this person alive.

And so, so much of our conversation just has to be like making decisions about her and

you know, we really want to like

be a partnership where we're

doing this together, but then it just means

I feel like sometimes that's all we talk about.

Oh, yeah, it's not romantic and like, no, super hot.

(...)

It's not hot. It's sometimes stressful.(...) It's like they can be hard conversations and

Yeah, you need to go on a date. Our anniversary is on Thursday. We're going to go tomorrow. We're going to go on a date.

Yeah. And I hope it's great. Good for you. And if it sucks, you'll go on a good one again later.

Thank you.(...) Because there's also pressure now.

Like, is it your first date since you have a second

second? So not a lot of babysitting like. Yeah.

No.

Yeah. The first one go.

It was good. We we like we're in and out in an hour and

because we wanted to get home. That's the thing. It's like you

like wrong when you leave them. But it's still.

Yeah. Everyone keeps like begging us to go on a date. And I'm like, I don't really.

Want to. But I know I need to.

I

do feel like the mom guilt going on a date is something that takes practice. And I'm really bad at it. But I've heard many people say that. And it's true. Like you're going to feel guilt. And if you just know that like leaving or like you're going to feel bad, it helps to just like know that ahead of time. And then I

don't.

Yes.

I'm not good at it, but it's really hard.

I'm not good at setting them up. I actually don't really feel guilt. You go girl.

it's amazing to watch.

(...)

You know, both of us like develop all these new skills and like really become like these new parts of ourselves, like new versions of ourselves a little bit. And like

I love doing that with him, but I just.

And struck by how much more effort it takes to.

(...)

Like.

I don't know, just there's like parts of the relationship that just like.

(...)

Fall off if we're not super intentional about it.

What makes you feel valued right now?(...) As like a mother or a partner?

My first answer, which maybe is a very interesting, but like.(...) I really.

(...)

Love it when like.(...) People text me, I feel like I'm very like.

(...)

Isolated.

(...)

From a lot of my friends that I was really close to before, like, I just don't see people as much. And a lot of my friendships have become over the phone or over text. And like

That's just like such a source of joy for me, which is kind of sad.(...) But like.(...) We just don't. I mean, she goes to bed at seven.(...) We get really cramps your social life and then like. We're three naps a day. She doesn't not that well out like I didn't get that kind of baby.

(...)

Which that is what it is a lot of the time, right? Like you see these babies passed out in strollers. Yes. Public. And it's like, well, that really is just the baby.

And she will do it, but it is like once in a blue moon and it takes a lot of work. Like it's a lot of like her crying and pushing. It's like it's not.

Nice time.

Fun for anyone.

(...)

And so like, especially my friends with babies, it's like, OK, we have a one hour window where both of our kids are awake. Like everybody run to the park. OK, bye. Nice to see you.

I don't know, it's a really interesting phase of life where(...) I'm so proud of what I'm doing, but like almost none of it is seen.

so much of it is just like me.

sometimes killing it often not, but like pushing through and like feeling proud of myself. Ow.(...)

It's really nice when, yeah, people check in

like my friends who are new moms will like ask me like text me questions or like or vice versa. And like I feel connected to.

The people in my life and like also.

There's like 10 babies that live on our street.

Oh, my gosh.

What?

Yeah.

That's amazing.

Baby Avenue. And so we have been really connecting with them, which has been great. Like she has several new, you know,(...) soon to be friends who are like a few months apart.

(...) That's so cute. Do you guys go on like mom walks?

Yeah. Yeah. Or will like someone will like have a, you know, like a pool in their yard and we like have a thread and we'll be like, come over and splash around, you know. So that's been great.

And like say 10 babies.

I know.

So there's your village. Like the next time around, honestly, that's your text thread.

Yeah.

Yes. And those moms will know how to show up because they did it. And that's true.

Yeah. No, and I don't like I want to say like the people

(...)

in my life who don't have kids are really like present for me. And they do check in. I just see them less than I used to. And it's just like it's just like a different kind of relationship.

(...)

But I will say I feel like after COVID, I wasn't very good at making friends.

don't know, I think I just got like more socially anxious and like also just Seattle is so hard to meet people.

(...)

And I I feel like babies are kind of they can be a bridge. They can be like,

kind of go zero to 100 with people or it can be that way.

that's I think that's a superpower,

I think you know what you value and like your time is limited. Your resources are limited.

And it's like you could you could try and put those constraints on yourself as a thought exercise prior to kids and just see how you value different things with people in your life. But it's not the same. Like when you have those constraints on your life now,

(...)

I think subconsciously all the time, you're like,(...) is this something I need to dig into or is it my not into this person?

(...)

Yes, and it's pretty quick. It's quick. I mean, that's true. Conscious like it didn't exist in my subconscious before.

(...)

And now it's like, oh, no, this seems really worth it. Let's go for it.

(...) I do. I definitely feel that way.

I feel like that with people and with a lot of different things.

I think it's just efficiency is. Yes, yeah. And tensionality like

and priorities are more clear. Yeah, all of that. I.

I definitely agree.

it's been.

Amazing to me how like I'll connect with a mom and we didn't just like, I don't know, feels like within 15 minutes, we're like telling each other our birth stories like I've had,

don't know, there is like a barrier that kind of goes away

because there's such shared experience. And I think also like there is a willingness to like want to connect over these things that you're often experiencing kind of on your own.

I was at the library the other day and I

was just having a day like I'm just super tired sometimes. Most days I'm like totally fine with this pregnancy, but I was just freaking exhausted out of body experience at this toddler story hour. And this mom I never talked to before. I was just like, how are you today? Oh, and that was like, do you cry?

No, I feel like I'm good.

English is just really hard today.(...) She was like, yeah, yeah, you're doing great. Like I was like, what did I look like? Could she smell?

(...)

I

anything we missed, I feel like we could just have this conversation for two more hours. Like somebody bring me.

Yeah, I know. I know. I just want to hang out with you guys.

Yeah, I feel like there is kind of one more thing that I did want to talk about,

I I really wanted to talk about

my dad as a part of all of this

background, basically, he died

(...)

eight years ago.

(...)

Of cancer.

(...)

And

(...)

I think that has been such a like huge and also kind of surprising part of having a baby, like how. How I've experienced my grief and all of that,

her, because before I had her,

I think I would imagine.

(...)

My mom,(...) like me handing my baby to my mom in the hospital.

(...)

And like my dad not being there

and like I would like lie awake at night crying about that, thinking about that and like how.

(...)

Hard that was going to be for me, and I was so worried

That I was going to feel like really acute grief, like kind of coming up again.

(...)

As she was born and as like I raised her because.

(...)

He wasn't there and they didn't get to me, and I didn't get to like watch him be.

(...)

A grandpa, he would have been the absolute best, you know. But like what was so surprising to me was that I

hasn't been.

As hard as I thought, and I think that that is because like.

(...)

When you think about it

She is like partially him like genetically.

(...)

And like a beautiful part of having kids is that you're like bringing in a way like bringing in. Your

like I like a piece of him back into my life and like she doesn't really look like him yet, but like I know that

I'll see little pieces of him in her as she grows up and I think the whole that I felt in my life like having him gone has been partially filled and I think that's why I haven't felt the grief that I. That I

expecting to like I don't even remember that moment that I held that like I gave

her

to my mom for the first time like it wasn't as big as I thought it would be.

(...)

And the crazy thing is is that

due date was January 1st. Which you know I of course like to everyone I was just like we were always like oh my God news baby is that a good birthday or not like talking about that but really what I was thinking about is he died on January 4th so I kept being like okay life is weird.

(...)

She's gonna have she's gonna be born on 4th I just know it like.

(...)

And she was born on the 5th. But I got induced on the 3rd at night. But I got induced on the 3rd at night and I was in labor all day on the 4th so like the whole day I was like thinking about him and being like oh my God she's gonna be born on the day that he died like I knew it.

(...) I have goosebumps.

wild.

I'm glad she wasn't born on that day because I think it's good for me to have like

day that I recognize him and then the day that I recognize her but.

(...)

I do feel like they're connected

I think that it has healed me in a lot of ways and like I know that there will be moments where like I'm so sad that he's not there.

(...)

For like things she does and things like milestones.

But it was a.

It was a really big part of becoming a mom for me

Just feeling so different about it than I thought I would and like

just feel like

With me through her which is like.

(...)

Really special.

That's so cool thanks for sharing.

(...)

Yeah of course

I'm just okay I think I'm really glad you asked I was like oh we could have missed that I

know I was just gonna say I think that super seeds like the hats the mom and dad hats for sure. For me as far as things that I'll be sitting with for the next.

(...)

Just so beautiful it's so full circle.

Well in birth I think you know no matter what you if you have any ounce of spirituality.

(...)

I mean birth I think is one of the things that brings you the closest to the veil metaphor whatever that is yes like that space between.

(...)

The universe and our part in it is little to none during birth.(...) And the fact that it's the day after is just like what a gift for you to have that day with your dad.

(...)

And then kind of complete the circle of life I mean that is legacy for him too she is a legacy for him.

(...)

Exactly yeah and I just felt like he was there with me through the whole thing too.

(...)

He was like this he was a distance runner and he was like the strongest toughest person I know.

Oh yeah yeah.

(...)

Yeah it sounds like you I don't know your birth story and now I'm really intrigued to need to hear your birth story if at any point you're willing to share with me. But sounds like if you were induced on the third and you had her on the fifth you needed with a section. Long distance running energy by.

(...)

Nobody told me induction takes days like nobody told me this.

Oh see things I didn't know either. Yeah I didn't know that.

Oh my gosh yeah okay do

you have time for a lightning round. Yeah

Usually Kelly aggressively cuts me off or is texting me on the side. You seem so chill today Cal what else should we do during this.

You know what we want for a nice walk took dog for a walk okay anyways okay

Kate.

(...) Back to you.

(...)

One baby item you swore you'd never use but totally did.

snow.

Oh is that the thing that rocks.

(...)

That moves.

(...)

Oh my gosh they're so expensive we bought one broken and fixed it and it was amazing.

Good for you. Good for you. Yeah.

(...)

Guilty pleasure during nap time or after bedtime.

Oh that's

Making up dance routines.

(...)

Instead of napping yourself. Teaching

myself on a net that's not really a guilty pleasure.

(...)

But I had fun watching YouTube videos doing that. Okay.

(...)

Playing Stardew Valley. Do you know that it's

a video game.

(...)

Like on the switch or like.

Yeah it's on Steam it's on a steam deck. It's like a farming video game.

(...) Of course it is.

(...)

I like harvest my vegetables.

(...)

There it is. That's the real answer.

(...) My first ones were like actually things I wanted to brag about. That's my actual.

Oh

God. Okay most irrational thing you cried about postpartum.

how many stairs there are in the house.

(...)

That's a good one.

(...)

Yeah.

What makes you feel the most beautiful?

I'm tanking.

You're dancing.

(...)

Okay. Dancing. Yeah. That's a good answer.

(...)

I'm that.

Dancing. Yes. Dancing does make me feel beautiful.

This is so fun.

I don't really want to be like person.(...) I feel like we just need like a big retreat of all the people that we've met.

Like, oh, that would be fun. Oh my God.

I thought about that.

It was really so mom hub party.

That would be so fun. Well, thank you so much, Kate. This was great.

Yeah. Thank you.

(...)