Episode 54: When Your Body Knows What Your Brain Doesn't: Maternal Compass Miniseries: Part 4 with Caitlin Ruby Miller, LPC

What if that nagging fear isn't your enemy but your guide? This episode hands you the tools to stop treating anxious thoughts like prophecies and start using them as breadcrumbs to something deeper. Discover how to build your own maternal compass —and actually access her when you're spiraling. Episode four of our mini-series—catch up on episodes 1-3 first.

Main Topics & Discussion

Fear as a Trailhead to Maternal Wisdom

Learn how to stop letting fear run the show without pretending it doesn't exist. This conversation gives you a framework for separating "I'm having a fearful thought" from "this fear is the truth about me as a mother." You'll walk away knowing how to name the voice of anxiety in a way that strips it of power—and how that simple act creates space for your actual wisdom to speak up. 

Building Your Personal Maternal Compass

You'll get prompts and permission to imagine your inner wisdom as an actual figure. This isn't a visualization exercise for its own sake; it's about creating a reference point you can turn to when Google isn't the answer. By the end, you'll have a clearer picture of what confident, grounded mothering looks like for you—not borrowed from influencers or parenting books, but drawn from something you already carry inside. Basically, you'll have a Patronus Harry Potter would be proud of.

Accessing Your Maternal Compass Through the Body

Discover where your inner wisdom actually lives—in your chest, your gut, your feet, your breath—and get specific techniques for tapping into it on demand. You'll learn how to create physical anchors that interrupt the spiral of indecision and reconnect you to calm. 

Resources & Next Steps

Download the Worksheet: Practice identifying your own internal voices. FREE resource from Caitlin.

Learn more about Caitlin: [Website/Instagram]

This podcast is educational only and not a substitute for professional mental health care.

Links & Discount Codes:

8Sheep Organics: Click this link for 10% off your purchase!

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

You know why I started using split screen today? And now it's causing all sorts of problems. Kelly, your mom has not had a lot to

do with it.

My husband and Emily have been roasting me for not using two monitors. Or like using a whatever. She has one on her desk. And now I used it today and we're having internet problems so. No.

(...)

We're doing our best though. We're doing our best.

Best.

Okay. So it's for listeners. If you have not listened to the first three episodes of this mini series, please tune in and get all caught up before listening to this one. Cause we are going to continue our mini series with Caitlin Miller on tapping into your maternal compass. And I'm really excited about today because we're talking about.

(...)

Fear.

(...)

We're doing follow up on fear as we kind of led into last episode and how we developed curiosity around the fear. So we can leverage that and get right back to our maternal compass. So we've done a lot of work on discovering our maternal compass, and now we're going to give you all the tips on implementing that easily in your daily life.(...) Tall order. I'm stoked.

Tall order.

(...)

Yes. I'm so glad to be here.

sort of the way I conceptualize it essentially is to work through our fear as new moms, as moms trying to navigate all of the cascade of thoughts that can come with like parenting decisions and matrescence is working through the fear can lead the way to talk to the part of you that is the maternal compass. So in the last episode, we were interviewing two of Emily's parts that are kind of getting in the way the schlub, the schlub more than the CEO. And we're going to probably do spin offs to talk to Emily's parts more.

(...)

And we can offer that separately, but essentially getting through that fear response. And you can use this sort of IFS framework for it can help clear the air for us to listen to a deeper wisdom inside of ourselves, which we're calling the maternal compass.(...) And then once we can tap into that more readily, we'll process fear and be able to make decisions like faster and more easily. So we were talking off camera about how fear is just so present in our culture right now in general, as well as for new moms, like all the time and that having an internal system that's more defined of like, oh, this is the fear voice of like, the part of me that's really worried that I'll never be a good enough mom and that like something awful will happen to my child, like as an example, to be able to name that thought and separate it from this isn't like who I deeply am as a person or as a mother, this is a thought and there's a system for it.

what are your thoughts, Kelly and Emily?

just laughing because it still means we really like have to face the fear. Like totally dig in and we have to address it. And that's why I feel like a lot of us don't want to do some. I'm excited to know how to do it because I have a strong suit. I got to say,

can

I really piss Kelly off because she had it's I'm D realist real quick because I just need to share something I was really thinking about before we got done today. And that is Franklin D Roosevelt in the midst of the Great Depression. That's where this really famous quote, the only thing we have to fear is fear itself. It's on my Oh, yeah, your t shirt. Oh, it's everywhere.(...) So that originated, I think from FDR who might have ripped that from Henry David Thoreau back in the mid 1800s.

(...)

That's what was happening 100 years ago. That was meant to instill hope and inspiration to the American people. Like the only thing we have to fear is fear. Get rid of the fear. You know, like we are not addressing the fear. We're shoving it into a box. No fear. No problem.

(...)

And then I liked Roosevelt.(...) And then we've got JK Rowling and the Dementors. Fast forward.

(...)

I mean, what has happened in less than 100 years? It's fascinating to me. But it seems pretty at least in my circles firmly ingrained in us in 2025 that you know, you dig into the challenge, you dig into the fear, you don't run, you figure out what you have to learn from it. But while we have this whole generational culture,

(...)

putting fear in this really negative space. So I'm really excited for you to help me undo that. Yeah.

Yeah.

(...)

Well, I'm thinking that from like this sort of lens that we're discussing, which is heavily informed by IFS, like internal family systems, is that the more we take seriously the thoughts that we're labeling as fear, because our emotions are still thoughts because we're using language to identify them, the more seriously we take those thoughts as though they are true, the more likely we are to act as though the things we fear are also true. And so the only thing you have to fear is fear itself. I think our generation's way of

essentially dispelling that is I am having a thought that is filled with fear that does not mean that it is accurate, or that I need to act on it, or that it says something about me as a person, or it says something about me as a mom.

I feel like our generation has given negative thoughts so much power. And if we talk about just thought negative thinking, that's in the concept of the feeling of fear.

(...)

We just we take it as though like an oracle is whispering into our ear telling us everything that's true.

so to go back to the quote, you have nothing to fear but fear itself.(...) I feel like making your fear into a voice in a system which we demonstrated with Emily and we have worksheets to help listeners determine like, this fearful thought is this coming from a part of me? What would this part be to give it a container to be afraid in that doesn't inform how we act as human beings? Like, it's not going to inform our choices. It doesn't have to put us in a state of fear and like unwind us as though it's true because it's not.

(...)

It's not true. Does that make sense?

(...)

Sure.

(...)

Yeah. So 100 years ago, we were just suppressing.

(...)

And now I don't know.

(...)

I don't know if the only thing we have to fear is fear itself is a type of suppression. I feel like it's a way of saying your thoughts that are fearful.

(...)

If you are afraid of them, you can't use them. If you are afraid of so. Yes. Okay. Sorry. I was trying to say. Yeah. Yeah.

(...)

If you are afraid of your fear, you amplify it, you multiply it. But if you use your fear as a trailhead, which I think is essentially what Roosevelt was saying, like, if we have something that we fear, what do we want to do about it? How do we want to act upon it? Not like, oh my god, I'm afraid of something. This means my life is just totally messed up. Everything's going to fall apart. I'm an awful mom. You know, like, it doesn't have to mean anything. The fear, we can just use it to act.

(...)

Does that mean?

Yes.(...) FDR is back in. FDR was never out.

(...) Okay.

(...)

Yeah. So I'm really hoping somehow we can tie in Patronus now to Emily's parts work.

(...)

Oh my gosh. Are we going to put her Patronus in this? I, it's, is it a deer? I don't know. Let's be honest.

(...)

Maybe it's a rabbit. No, it's a cat. It's a Black Panther. It's a Black Panther. Yeah, but.

(...)

Well, you told me my spirit animal was a snow leopard. Snow leopard.

(...)

A feline. Either way. Yeah.(...) Feline. This is fun.

No, but that's actually part of the, like, developing for listeners their parts is like what stories and what archetypes are you the most attracted to? And does any of that resonate for you? So that's like a thing that you could use to try to be like, what, how could I describe this part of me?

(...)

So it can actually be used.

Okay, this is fun.

So if we're sitting in this place of fear, and we know in 2025, that's a that's a trailhead now to get curious about. Yes, absolutely. Yeah, we're like, we're intrigued. We're there. Tell me more. Let's dig in.(...) How do we

get back to our maternal compass?(...) Yeah, yeah. We need to find that, you know, we need to wade through all of these different voices and fears and our patrada. How do we cut the BS to get back to our maternal compass, which is our strongest voice?

Yeah, so I would say the first step for listeners is developing what their maternal compass is. And then we can talk about ways to like easily access her. And so if we talk about like the five senses different ways that you can tap into that like deeper wisdom inside of you. And if we define the maternal compass as like a deep maternal wisdom that all women carry within them. And then the question is just how much are we tapping into it?

for listeners, including in worksheets for them to develop what their maternal compass is, and then also for us to kind of brainstorm about what that looks like for each one of

so a really simple example is we could have a listener who maybe had a grandmother who's just like an embodiment of their maternal compass, like if they're thinking about who's like the wise woman inside of me that can help guide me through every stage of my child's development, they might have that person in mind, there might be an actual person they've known, some people don't have that gift of family like that. But for that person, it could be like keeping a picture of their grandmother on a necklace that they wear every day. And when they're feeling lost, they open the necklace and they look at the picture, they take a deep breath, they close their eyes and they act like they ask like, okay, what would my maternal compass do here? Or what would my grandmother do here? There's also like holding on to your heart or grounding yourself in different parts of your body that you would relate to like the maternal compass. But again, I think

out how to access that is the step after figuring out who is my unique maternal compass, like within each listener, if that makes sense.

Wait, are we all building our patronuses now?

(...)

Yeah, no, really

it, Callie, what's your realization?

Well, no, I was like, wait, is my patronus my maternal compass?(...) I didn't think so. But maybe mine is maybe mothers are maybe Harry Potter isn't a mother. So that's like his is a stack.

(...) Sorry, to our younger listeners, we're millennials. Like, it's just we can't like a terry potter. We can't I can't not.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah.

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But so an example, I'm going to give you an example for me of like a part that I'll tap into. So I hope to be a mom sometime in the next, let's just loosely say two years. So I'm not as developed right now in my own maternal compass, but I do have like sort of a wise woman part inside of me and the way I picture her because I'm super into like fairy tales and fae and all of that aesthetic. Which, by the way, a listener can be so anti fairy tales and still have a maternal compass does those two things are not the same. This is just me. I picture like, um, like a really like wrinkly kind of old lady with like really long white hair standing at the edge of the forest. And the idea is she's like lived there her entire life. She knows like every medicinal plant, every place to go in the forest, every way to survive. She's calm. She's like one with nature. And sometimes when I feel really lost, I picture like walking to the edge of a forest. I close my eyes, take a deep breath. And I'm like, what would she say? Like, how would she guide me? So the idea of like a person that is so wise and so calm and so one with nature and nature can be a metaphor for like the unknown and like perilous times and like Franklin Delano Roosevelt, like times like that, like the Great Depression. Like, what do we do? How do we survive on a planet that all of this is happening in? And then I'll feel way calmer and I'll feel more grounded. And then I'll usually get some sort of thought come to me of like, all you have to do is breathe or like if it's a problem with my partner, it'll be like a directive of like, why don't you just talk to him about this or why don't you just give him a hug or whatever it is? So like, that this is an example of and I have clients who have like developed parts inside of them too, and similar ways to kind of tap into it.

So when I was thinking for this episode of like, what would my maternal compass be?(...) I was thinking of this part in my system, because I feel like a woman this old at the edge of the forest would have like helped raise many children in the forest as well as probably had many of her own. I also think of Queen Victoria, like I think of historical figures like a person who imperfectly like ran an entire country and also had like what 12 children and just like the confidence in like I am birthing another child. This is like, I am a mom, like I am also a queen. So so yeah, and I know that the O'leary's have wonderful,

maternal and grandmother figures. So I'm curious, I want to give both of you the prompt because I feel like we all have different brains and imaginations. And this might be helpful for listeners of like, if you imagine a maternal compass, it could be people you know, it could be characters and books, it could be images that come to you, it could be memories that you have of your own mothering journey, like moments you've had with children where you're like, wow, I really feel like I'm in a flow state as a mom. So I'm curious for either of you what comes up for you. Mine, when you think of maternal compass,

like I go right to my grandmothers, but they're so different. So funny part that like, yeah, visuals really hard for me. Yeah, but the feeling is there.

(...) What's the feeling of like the sort of amalgamation of both of your grandmothers?

Good word.

Wow.

(...)

Hang on to that. Once you have those kids in two years, that'll be gone. Yeah.

(...)

I have to write everything now.

(...)

Just very joyful still in the wise old like, somehow this like if I really need to put into an image, it is a very old like very wrinkly woman, which my grandmothers like aren't really right. Like, maybe it doesn't look like my grandmothers, but just very joyful.

(...)

And also I've seen hardship.

(...)

But regal somehow, like just so confident.

(...) Mm hmm. It's interesting. Oh, keep going, Kelly. Sorry.

I don't know. Just like they're so like they could run the world for sure.(...) But then they will get down and just like play with my children and see the joy in my children.

(...)

Mm hmm. Mm hmm.

(...)

I kind of love how much overlap there is in our parts immediately. Yeah. Did you hear that? Like the Queen Victoria, the regal, the run the world, the wrinkle, but then like very energetic and like we can handle anything and the combination of like, I can run the world and also I can get on my knees and play with a two year old and have a blast. Like I contain,(...) you know, it's not like a hierarchical like I am better than others so I can run the world. It's like, I am confident.

(...)

This is going to be okay. What about for you, Emily? What comes up?

It was funny. You had given us the prompt. Hey, I want you to start visualizing what your maternal compass was. And so I'm thinking about it. And if I'm thinking about just tropes.

(...)

Yeah. It's Mother Willow from Pocahontas. Oh, she's okay.

She's a visual. Wait, my visual is I didn't want to say it, but now that you said that mine was the who is it like the aunt or the grandmother in Mulan? Like the crazy one.

Oh, the crazy one. Yeah, I think she's a grandmother. Yeah. All right. That's fine. Okay. Sorry.

(...)

I love that. Yeah. And then I go to like, okay, if I were to because I went all over the place just trying to figure out. Yeah. Kind of visualizing we were going to do on this episode.

(...)

Also pulling in current female figures who are stepping outside of themselves and have children. So there's, I think, a theme running of so much dignity and intentionality and so many resources poured into your children and your family, but also using those skills and tools for the world outside of yourself. Like women give to the world. Like we share,(...) you know? So those were my, I would say though, that I,(...) those were images I kind of had to look for. But it is family for me too. And I think for me, it's there's a knowledge in my genetics. It's like in my skin because it's not even our grandmothers for me. It's for generations because I sometimes go back to my great grandmother.(...) My mom who,

(...)

all of these women just came up against different odds and different hardships and overcame them so differently.

(...)

And our mom did the same, but all four women that I'm thinking of, Baba Marika and our two grandmas and my mom,

(...)

the common theme is that they went against the grain.

(...)

In a lot of different ways.

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There's something so beautiful about the image of the maternal compass that all of us are kind of tapping into to go off of what you just said, Emily, of they have such confidence in their decision making that they can go against the grain and it works out and they overcome a lot.(...) So that sign of like, because if you see someone doing something that they're not already taught to do or told to do by society, like you know that there's something different in there and then that like confidence of I'm making this decision for myself, for my family.

(...)

Okay, I had that today and I feel like I haven't been great with my internal compass yet, but today, Yeah. I like did some journaling this morning and I were finally, we had a hell of a month, hell of a month. And I'm finally at a point where I'm so thankful that like my husband can do the dishes again and like our life is like becoming normal again.

(...)

So like I had all this gratitude this morning and I was like, okay, maybe I needed a kick in the pants to like feel the gratitude because maybe I was being a whiner before all this happened, whatever. And then I'm like, wait, Charlie's going to school this afternoon, which is against the grain for our upbringing. Also, like for my friend group, most of my friends homeschool. Transmute school this afternoon.

(...)

Nora's going to nap and I'm going to work on this project. Like I'm going to sit down and talk about matrescence and wisdom and Charlie's pump for school. Nora needs a nap. And this is bringing beauty to the world. Oh,

(...)

like it felt so dang good this morning to like,

(...)

I am different and it's good.

Yeah, I'm feeling confident. Yeah, it's a balance like Charlie's going to school two afternoons a week, you know, but it's good.

And yeah,

(...)

well, and that's the thing we can invite listeners to do to like similar to what you're doing today, Kelly, like right now in this moment, you're focusing on building your maternal compass and that that can be a gift to not only yourself, but also your family. And that might take time and energy away from listener like from their partners or their children or whatever they're trying to do and that there is that pressure of like, for you what you're describing in your friend group, Kelly of like, well, you should be homeschooling your kids or you should be, like Nora shouldn't be napping right now, you should be with her or whatever it is, or you should be cleaning up the house or doing things for the kid like so. I do think that there is an intentionality behind, I'm going to take some time for myself to develop like, what is this maternal compass so I can tap into her and that might be going against the grain, but it's like a gift to you and your family.

(...)

And hopefully eventually like the community, like, moms are amazing.

(...) And I want to speak to also listeners who might not have maternal figures in their life who were amazing because like my mother was amazing. I have amazing grandmothers like I was very gifted with that. And then both of you have such a wonderful like lineage but similar to like we contain multitudes inside of us and we're like a collective humanity, even for listeners who might not have great maternal examples in their life, whether it's in their family or outside of their family. Part of the creativity of this exercise, like when you were talking about Mulan and Pocahontas and like the mother, sorry, mother Willow and Pocahontas and the aunt or the grandmother and Mulan.(...)

have exemplified images of the maternal compass in our culture that we can tap into to develop our own internal identity if we have not had the gift of receiving maternal love and maternal care in a way that like the three of us have

Thinking about Michelle Obama. Yeah,

(...)

I was wondering more of the female figures, Michelle Obama,

(...)

like the current ones.

I mean, Eleanor Roosevelt is not current, but also I don't think she had any children, but

I don't know anything about her mothering.

not real, but Anne and Anne of Green Gables.

(...)

Oh, Joe and Little Women. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, Joe and Little Women. Oh, my gosh. Yeah, phenomenal. Also, like Louisa Mayelka coming up with that kind of mothering and her time. I mean, that's amazing. Yeah, that's some maternal compass.

(...)

So the next prompt I'm going to give us all because I also want to listen.

I'm so sorry. I can't slander Eleanor. She had six children. OK, back to you, Caitlin.

(...) Well, I do think there's something about famous historical figures where we don't think of their mothering, even if they are mothers of like what about what we know about them informs our maternal compass?

(...)

And when it just my immediate hit on Eleanor Roosevelt is like a woman who will find a way to make anything work and has like grit and perseverance to make it through. And that's obviously applicable as a mother and not just as a political figure.

so I'm going to give us all another prompt

listeners who are less visual and might not be sure about like different

(...)

people who have lived or people from stories.

If you think of the maternal compass,(...) like the wise inner woman inside of us all, where do you feel it in your body?

(...) I fully in my chest.

(...)

Chest or gut. Like there's social media. Stay with your chest is currently trending, right? And yeah, I'm like, okay, don't overuse it. That's a powerhouse place. You know,

so by chest, do you mean like your heart or what? Where do you feel it in your body? And how does it feel if you were to like tap into your maternal compass in your body?

(...)

I think it truly depends.(...) I think if I'm really tender, it's often my heart.

(...)

And that's often linked to, I would say probably unstable feelings or fear.(...) If I'm really in a place of calm and digging deep and deep listening, it's in my gut.

hmm.

So that can be a full body knowing the chest. I would say is more like a.

(...)

Like a trigger point or like an indication to go deeper.

Mm hmm. So then for a listener who might have something similar to Emily, I would recommend if you're trying to tap into your maternal compass to like put a hand on your gut and take a deep breath and then focus on tapping into that part of yourself. So we would tap into the part of our bodies that are more associated with like the strong and calm part of the compass versus a more like anxious feeling. Does that make sense?

(...)

What resonates for you, Kelly?

(...)

Lungs?

Ooh. I can like picture like how much they take up to.(...) Yeah.(...) In college, I got to go to a cadaver lab and like hold like human lungs. And I was like, oh, my God, these are so big. Granted, it was like a big thing, but just like, oh, they're big. Yeah. Visual. I can't get rid of my back. It's it. Yeah. Yeah. Huh.

(...) That's wonderful. So when you tap into your maternal compass in your lungs, do you want to say anything more about that? Like what comes up for you or how does it feel?

I feel like it's totally breath work. Like I'm taking good full body breaths and just letting that be like what's creating energy, which it does. I think it's very I think I'm very literal.

(...)

Yeah, no, it's great. It's it's actually not it's not literal, but it's helpful. So I'm going to shake it up. I have a different one than both of you, which I think this is fun and good for listeners to hear. So for me, what the two places in my body I think of are my feet, like the soles of my feet and the feeling of like standing in grass and being like so grounded and connected to the earth. So I think about the soles of my feet. And then I also think about my literal heart. So like the left part of my chest. And when I feel anxious, like when Emily was talking about more of those hits of anxieties or stress, anxiety or stress, I

(...)

I often feel like the energy is like coming into my heart and almost like poking at it. But my heart with the maternal compass feels like it's radiating light and like very like open. So kind of like you know, the front of a ship where like the statue of the lady like has her arms open and she's her chest is out and she's like leading kind of what Emily was saying, like leading with her chest, like more of that energy of like a heart that is like

(...)

so energetic and healthy that it's like radiating love. So those are the two things that I get. And I could imagine like trying to tap into my maternal compass, maybe going outside and standing in the grass with bare feet or just like standing up anywhere, even inside and just taking a deep breath and feeling like the energy from the ground. And like what would a grounded perspective of this look like?

I also the locket example to go back to like visual prompts for people who maybe, OK, I don't really want a body prompt if I'm tapping into my maternal compass.

My grandmother passed away. I love her so much. It is very sad. I have a locket with her picture in it. And so for me, like if I imagine tapping into my maternal compass, I might actually wear the locket and open it up and just take a deep breath and be like, what would she do? Like, what would she do in this moment? And with the framework that like she is a part of me.

(...)

So I was thinking about also asking you all about like any smells or sensations or also maybe movements or music things that you might hear that might help you tap into your maternal compass.

(...)

Are these things that we encounter out in the world at random or things that we man you like when we know we need to tap into the maternal compass, we're turning on this song.

essentially what would trigger you to tap into your maternal compass. So like,

this is more of like for all of our ideas of what we intuitively think of as the maternal compass, what could help the three of us tap into her in different circumstances? So you have like tools for many different circumstances. So like I always have my feet so I could always do something grounding. I always have my heart. I might not always have the locket and the necklace, but maybe that necklace is more powerful than the other things because it immediately just taps into the maternal compass, if that makes sense.

Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of tough for me. I think breathing is huge.

(...)

I this is so weird. I really think it's like my skin. Like I feel these women living in me.

(...)

Yeah.(...) I mean, this necklace is just a gold chain. It is for my grandma. I have a lot of gold jewelry from her. I have a bracelet on, but I always I never take these things off. Mm hmm. It's just always so those are great reminders of that particular figure.

(...)

OK.

(...)

I'm honestly, I'm kind of struggling to come up with.

(...)

A like a trigger or something that I.

Yeah, I'm thinking with your skin.

(...)

Like since the jewelry is on your skin, is there a way if you're feeling lost to like fidget with the jewelry or stem with the jewelry to kind of tap into like the combination of this is your grandmother's gold jewelry? It's also on your skin. Like how can I tap into like that? I am one of a lineage of very strong women. And I'm literally like wearing I'm with one of my grandmothers like here right now.

(...)

Yeah, I think I need to start remembering to do that.

Well, so I would give you the assignment of

what would a grounding exercise to tap into your maternal compass look like that honors the connection to your skin and the jewelry, which likely would be some movement. So if we think about like people being receptive to touch sensations, well, there has to be some movement for touch to happen, even if it's putting on like a sweater, like there's some sort of movement. So what would that look like for you? There's also like tapping exercises that people talk about to help ground

OK, bear with me. I'm back to the patronus, but my patronus is like the maternal compass and she's like, yeah, it's forming my fears.(...) Right. So I'm imagine like Ron when he's like seeing Hermione and Harry making out whatever, like in the seventh book. Spoiler, sorry.

(...)

Right. The maternal compass is like mediating.

(...)

She's like actually going to transform what actually happened. Oh, like, oh, they're like, it's a different kind of love and like whatever. And like,(...)

also, yes, dreaming

I love the patronus image.

I just want to mention something that I think could be helpful when kind of going back to tapping into listeners, finding their own maternal compass

if you're patronus, Kelly, that is the maternal compass can like take fear and sort of digest it and almost recycle it and like deliver something back to you. That feels like a nice sort of closing the loop of like, how can fear be a trailhead? And this is definitely in like metaphor. But I do think if I imagine my maternal compass, there's something about her where she like hears the fear and she validates it, but she also translates it in a way that is actionable and grounding.

(...)

So I really loved the image you shared, and I wanted to kind of connect that to how do we process all this fear that comes up for us?

(...) And I think that is top of mind for me because

(...)

I think that would be one of my bigger parts that we would need to work through is anxiety and fear, just like like Emily, how do you love?

(...)

I think I would have like a hairy spider. I don't know.

(...) Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, that just like is what

(...)

my maternal compass would, I guess, not need to battle, but(...) I think make peace with. Yes. It's not a spider, for sure. I'm not making peace with that.

(...)

Oh, that's your problem, though. You have to make peace with the spider.

(...)

How do you how do you take a rest, Nicobia?

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

if you can do that one.

(...)

I don't think it's a surprise that you're like metaphor for the thing that is like disgusting to you, like Emily was disgusted by her schlub is a spider.(...) So we would be talking to like the metaphorical spider, not the societal construct of arachnophobia, although I definitely think there's overlaps. But I think starting with.

(...)

What about this like hairy spider inside of you that you're that you're terrified of?(...) I would love, oh, my God, to talk to the spider. Also, spiders like can be as isn't can't they be a symbol for women and like weaving of stories and weaving of webs?

Finally make me able to read Charlotte's Web without like, I can't even read that book.

I can't I can't I have no problem with spiders. Can't do it.

(...)

Nope, not that one.

I think we should do an episode where I might need it. Oh, my gosh. I think we should do an episode where I read Charlotte's Web and we just talk about the implication. We just we have to.

(...) I know it's just I'm sick that way. Disgust. Yeah, I'm like something about it. It's just me.

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

but that I there is something there's a trailhead in that. It doesn't have to happen today and it won't happen today because we're almost out of recording time. But

Our fifth episode, we're trying to frame it as now that you have faced some of the fears of like parts inside of you that are taking up the mic, blocking the maternal compass. Now that you have developed more of an idea of what your maternal compass is, now that you've maybe developed one or two tools to tap into your maternal compass, how do we build a life that makes it possible to let your inner wisdom take the front seat? So what does it look like for you to tap into the maternal compass when you're feeling anxious, afraid, sad, indecisive? What is tapping into your maternal compass instead of looking on Google and being like, "Oh my God, I don't know how to mother..." Like sort of these like modern day moments that Callie and Emily talk about a lot on this podcast. It's like, how do we navigate motherhood in modern day?

Love it. Wait, stay tuned. Okay, make sure listeners,(...) you go to the page for this episode or our website and download

the printout,

And maybe share it. Like if you're willing, I know. I love to hear, I'm really into this.

I really want to know. Yeah, what is your maternal compass look like? And also like, how are you accessing it? Because that was a bit of a struggle for me. You know, how are you operating this? It's easier to sit in our habits. It's easier to sit in fear if that's what we're used to reaching for. So how are... It's a whole practice. It's a lot of work. I think I'm sure reactive.

(...) Yeah, like I could identify that I did it this morning, but in that moment, I wasn't like, Oh, what's my maternal compass saying? So that's what my homework is, is like really doing that and practicing tapping into it.

But it's your homework for the rest of your life, right? Like this is a lot of rewiring we have to do. This is intentional, technical work.

So I'm part of the Emily, part of the tangible ways to tap into the maternal compass is giving you enough tools where you can tap into her in multiple circumstances. Because it is a lot about like, rewiring, changing habits, changing behaviors, but also having like a greater intellectual framework where we have a deeper thing to tap into as well. Not just like, if you go like this 10 times, you'll feel better, like there has to be something deeper,(...) at least for me. So yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yay. Okay. Okay. Caitlin. Thanks, Caitlin.

Yeah. Yeah. It was great to be with y'all. And I really want to interview Emily Shlub more in a standoff episode.

We will. And we will let listeners know we're going to make those exclusive episodes for those of you who really want to sit in on my actual therapy sessions.

(...)

Lord knows I need them. So we will let you know how

you can access those later on. But everyone can tune in to our last one. Yeah. We're going to talk about DreamBake, right?

Yeah. And I love the idea of multiple listeners sharing them tapping in, because I feel like the more examples we can have of everybody doing this, the easier it is for new people to be like, wait, I'm a little lost with Emily's. I resonate more with Callie's, but also this person who commented, or this other person at the real mom, this person really resonated with me. So yeah.

(...)

We are all in this together.

(...) Yeah, we are. Thank you.

Bye, you guys. Bye.

Bye.

(...)