Episode 56: Ready to Break… But My Body Didn’t Get the Memo (a postpartum experience with main character energy)

Emily's live from the postpartum trenches with a plot twist no one saw coming—including her. After a first birth that left her feeling broken for nearly two years, her second postpartum experience is shockingly... good? We're diving into everything from waistbands to mom guilt with two kids, plus why we need to talk about difficult births without the toxic positivity filter (but also, let's celebrate with some actual positivity).

Postpartum Recovery: When Your Second Birth Rewrites Everything You Thought You Knew

Anyone else remember thinking all those moms who 'bounced back' quickly were lying to themselves? Emily did. But now, seven weeks postpartum with baby number two, she's wearing jeans, feeling like herself, noticing her pelvic floor healing daily, and swimming in gratitude. This isn't toxic positivity—it's the uncomfortable truth that birth trauma and difficult deliveries can genuinely impact your postpartum recovery for months or years. Emily opens up about spending 18 months after her first pregnancy feeling  broken, and the stark contrast of actually feeling functional this time. For moms wondering if recovery should be this hard—your experience matters, your birth story affects your healing, and there's zero shame in admitting when things aren't okay.

The Reality of Two Kids: Mom Guilt, Survival Mode, and Toddler Boundary Testing

Transitioning from one to two isn't just doubling the workload—it's watching your firstborn test every boundary while feeling guilty your newborn has to wait. Emily gets real about the Velcro baby who can't always be held immediately, toddler meltdowns in public, and mom guilt that hits hard. We explore what's been working: leaving the house by 10:30 AM, separate bedrooms for sleep-deprived parents, surviving the witching hour, nursing jealousy, and why those "special activity bags" fail. This is the honest conversation about life with two littles that skips Instagram perfection.

For more honest conversations about motherhood without the filter, subscribe and leave us a review. And hey—if you're in the postpartum trenches right now and things feel hard, you're not whining. You're a human growing humans, and that deserves respect.

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Host & Show Info

Hosted by: Cally & Emily O’Leary

About the Hosts: We’re real moms and real sisters. We may look and sound alike, but our motherhood journeys are uniquely ours. We all do Motherhood differently, and thank goodness for that. Let’s learn and grow together.

Podcast Website: https://therealmomhub.com/

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Transcript

Hi, shirt can. Is this thing on? Is this thing on? Does she remember how?

(...)

Look at you.

(...)

Postpartum. Here I am. You look great.

(...) Thank you. I feel good. My super worn out, super comfy sweater, sweatshirt.

(...)

Yep.

(...)

(Laughing)

You're not allowed. You're not supposed to be fluent yet. It's okay.

(...)

(Laughing)

That is one thing. Oh my gosh. I'm not sure this happened with Kieran too, but I'll feel like I have energy actually this time. I'll feel like I'm having an okay state of being, okay moment of existence and words will just disappear. I don't think I've ever had an experience in my life where there are such vivid gaps of nothing. Just absolutely-- Just nothing there. Nothing, yeah. And I remember being so much more tired with Kieran. Like I just physically tired all the time because he just wasn't sleeping.

(...)

And I'll feel fine. I'm like, I'm adulting. I've done three errands today. I've talked to humans. That's a lot with two little humans. It's true. And I will still struggle to find, like describe a simple thing. Anyways, you're allowed. I'm wearing a sweatshirt.

(...)

(Laughing)

(...) How are you?(...) I'm good.

(...)

We're setting up Christmas.

(...)

We are recording. This will be a fresh recording when it's released. Often we've recorded like way ahead of time. Uh oh.

(...)

That was a story. Yeah, that was my one, a child.(...) This will be a fresh recording. So it is the day after Thanksgiving and that means it's time to set up Christmas, which is just really fun.

(...)

Also, Charlie's been like running through the house singing this song from the Grinch. Only he thinks that the way. You're like, Fa-hoo doors Fa-hoo doors Welcome Christmas Right? Can you picture it?

(...)

Is that what it is? Fa-hoo door? Are you sure? Well, see, this is what he's also questioning. He's pretty positive it's "Follow Doris."

(Laughing)

(...)

You know what, Charlie?

(...)

Yeah.(...) We don't know who Doris is. Fa-hoo, I thought it was a bot with a B. Okay, we're googling this.

No, I know because my kids are singing it for a concert.(...) It's Fa-hoo-doris.

(...)

No, so it would be better if it was Fa-hoo-doris.

It would be better if it was "Follow Doris" at that point.(...) "Follow Doris." It's just so funny.

(...)

"Follow Doris." Do you know any Doris?

I sort of was like, I don't even know if he knows it's a name, which

makes it even funnier. Is Doris now a contender for Worm's name?

(...)

A "worm" being your upcoming child. Upcoming child, that's a great idea. Worm, I like that. Yeah. All right, so we're diving into your postpartum today.

(...)

Well, it's fresh. Yeah, we are.

Yeah, no, you know what? I'm happy to be here, let's go.

Welcome back to the pod. Emily is back. Thank you.

I'm happy to be in postpartum, but I'm thrilled to be in the pod again.

(...)

Yeah, does it feel a little like a little you time, a little people free time?

Yes, I'm in a room by myself.

(...)

That's it, I'm in a room by myself. Oh, and I'm speaking to another adult. How do we have more of this, please?

(Laughing)

(...) Okay, so this is not gonna be a birth story situation. No, our other podcasts for that. I do feel like in order to set us up for your postpartum, could you give us the two-minute synopsis, just so we know how this all went down? Because also, I had to put some episode out that was like, "Surprise, Emily, I had a baby," and then some people were actually nervous. The way I worded it, they thought things were bad and it was all fine. So can you just ease our minds, just fill us in.

(...)

Everyone's great, we're doing great.(...) Honestly didn't know you could be this great after having a child, so big success story coming our way.

But it's bordering toxic positivity.

(...)

Yeah, I'm gonna be toxically positive this up. I am. Okay, great. Okay, let's hear it. We can dive into why.

(...)

Because I have a big contrast to my previous birth, but yeah.

(...)

Yeah, so we had some bumps in the road with my pregnancy(...) and essentially I showed up to my normal midwife appointment on a Thursday and I was technically, I was a few days past 37 weeks, so I was full term.

(...)

And it was the second week that I was reporting decreased fetal movement from a very active fetus. It was not enough to concern me. I remember being concerned with the first one when there was lack of movement and it was fine. Like I was counting kicks and it was fine. This one I wasn't even Googling, I wasn't concerned. But it's the second week in a row where I was like, yeah, so she's slowing down and because I've had, I have the complication of gestational diabetes and she decided to be breech just a few days prior. We know that because I was going in for three appointments every week and she's perfectly positioned one day and then two days later she was fully breech.

Wild because it's tight in there at that point. Like to do that full 180, that's like kind of impressive.

I'm telling you, the way she moved in my womb was never cute, okay? It never felt cute. She's cute. She's so cute, we're obsessed, but girly was active.

(...)

So anyways,

(...)

and because I had placental issues with my severe preeclampsia last time,

(...)

they were basically like, yeah, so you're technically full term, do you wanna just stay? Maybe we should just take you to the delivery unit now. And I was like, it's 11 a.m., I have my toddler with me. We weren't planning this for a while now. I mean, I-- Wait, what were they gonna do with Kieran?(...) Like what was the plan there?(...) Like someone would have come, like they would have started the check-in process and someone would have come to get him.

Really funny. Why didn't you just both come?

These are also all moms. Like I, you know. You love it. Yeah, anyways.

(...)

So I didn't stay. I said, could I please go home? And we did some stress testing on the babe. And they were like, yeah, you can go home, but we strongly recommend coming back tomorrow.

(...)

So I did. And we had an epidural and,

(...)

you know what? I think any birth, I don't know any birth that's gone smoothly, frankly. This one did not go smoothly. There was a lot of bumps.

But when it came time to push, it was a 22 minute situation.

(...)

Amazing. She came out the right way. The right way.(...) Not that Cesareia's the wrong way, but like, you know, the way that I wanted. Yes.

(...)

Yeah, good job.

(...)

And you were, you had the epidural the whole time, this time because they were gonna try to flip her.(...) So like you'd gotten an epidural right.

(...) Yeah, well they turned it off because I still wanted to try and be one with my body.

(...)

One with your body and Pitosa?

Yeah, I wanted, I was like, you know what? I remember Pitosa feeling terrible last time, but we can try it

terrible again.

(...)

Also the epidural just, there are problems with the epidural. That was a whole long. The theme is toxic positivity. So we can definitely talk about all the problems I had with this birth. There were plenty.

But it was quick. I mean, it was relatively quick.

(...)

Yeah, it went in Friday midday.(...) She came out.

(...)

Yeah, no. I was on the OR table for a hot minute, but that was fine too.

So they do a flip on the table, like when they try to do the version or whatever. Yeah. Okay.

For some reason I just always imagined you like went into your OB or your midwife and they just like pressed on your stomach really hard.

Apparently that's not the case.

There was a team of like 15 people in there with me, which I'm so very confused by. Holy smokes. Yeah, I literally don't know what these people are supposed to be doing.(...) Whoa. Cause it was just going to be an OB and a resident as far as I know, like actually trying to flip Maeve.

Maybe they were just like ready for a C-section if needed.

They were. So the epidural they gave me was, if this doesn't work, she's coming out with surgery cause they don't deliver breech babies when you've got gestational diabetes. When you have as many

problems as you do. Yeah.

(...)

So here you are. Okay, thank you for filling us in. So today we're going to talk about your postpartum life in the last what? Are you at six weeks?

Seven tomorrow. Seven weeks. Congrats. Thank you.

Would you like to do a

loving? What's hard?

I forgot about it till right now.

Oh, what we're loving. Yeah, well, we're a little rusty.

(...)

Things I'm loving this week.

I'm loving a four day weekend with my husband. That is so nice.

I'm just loving that. I love every night Charlie's going to bed and he's like, "Tinny, do you have to go to work tomorrow?" Nobody and he's so excited. I mean, so freaking cute. Yes.

I'm like, should we all buy farms and just work together? Like, you know, I don't know. How do the kids come to work with us? And how do we still work? I don't know.(...) Hunter Gathers societies.

(...)

When we say it now.

(...)

But yeah, that's what I'm loving. I'm loving that I have a four day weekend right now with my whole family. Yeah. So equal kid to adult ratio.

(...) Incredible. How about you? What are you loving? It's not my future soon.

(...)

Honestly, mom is coming up for an impromptu visit,(...) which I'm just going to say is motherhood because I think she's mostly coming to like help me with anything she can before the baby comes imminently. And also just like be here in this current stage before there's three kids. Yup. So she's driving up really late tonight cause there's a snow storm on the way, but a champ.

(...) Oh, smart. I was wondering about that. Thank God. I was going to ask off air.

Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So she's coming in late tonight and I'm just thrilled about it. And it's like so great that my kids love to have their gammy. And my husband is thrilled that his mother-in-law is coming. I mean, like that's amazing.

(...)

Yeah. Is that motherhood? I don't know. That's family life. That's what I'm loving about family life. That's good family life. Yeah. Love it. All right. What's hard?

(...)

Can't make it too toxic.

(...)

The positivity.(...) I mean, it is just really the self-regulating that I'm having to do 24 seven is the hardest job I've ever had. I mean,

(...)

it's hilarious thinking about hearing about burnout now and like, that's such a buzzy topic in terms of professional world. I'm like, LOL, hilarious. I actually am just losing that I ever love your mind. Funny.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah, like it's really hard to muster energy for excitement.(...) And even like when you're happy and excited and positive with your toddler, I feel like there are less tantrums and therefore you reduce the need to self-regulate so thoroughly.

Your energy fully creates the energy of the household.(...) Frequent.

Contribute, so it's not the, but yeah. Yeah. So that's,

really struggling

(...)

with that.

mine is actually in a similar vein because I've never been pregnant as a full-time home mom.(...) Oh, right. So I always was working, and actually I was working full-time the last two pregnancies.

(...)

And my body is like,(...) the baby's healthy, I'm healthy, but I can't believe my pain I'm having because I'm always home and you're at the back and call of these toddlers. So I'm just like on my feet all the time. And this pregnancy is so different than when, because working is hard when you're pregnant, but by the third trimester, you're showing everybody has some sympathy. You could sit down and do your job most of the time and in most cases, at least I could. Like, yeah, and this is. It's a whole different ballgame.

And we should be clear, you're also working. You just are home with your children and working.(...) Yeah, you just have a different schedule. So the normal. That's correct.

(...)

Yes, normal Monday through Friday hours(...) are generally with your children.

(...) Yeah, and when I am working, I'm like also trying to like parent and whatever. So it's been, yeah, that's been interesting.

(...)

It's been interesting, but not for much longer.(...)

Okay,

Postpartum. Let's go.(...) Yeah, I feel like you are ready with some things that are shocking you in this moment, but how has this experience been different(...) than the last one? Is that too broad? Do you mean a narrow down? We need a narrow down.

Every response. Okay, let's talk physical.

(...)

Okay, physically. Let's get physical. What, we left on a Sunday, so we didn't have like a five day stay in the hospital post delivery, which is phenomenal.

(...)

We didn't have the daily check-ins with Kieran's problems, the ER visit with me. So I mean,

that was my-- Like you went to the hospital, you came home and then you stayed home. On a Sunday,

and by the time we left the hospital,

(...)

I remember thinking, wow, I think I feel better now the day after delivering than I did four months after giving birth to Kieran. Oh my gosh. So Kieran came out via C-section

(...)

after severe preeclampsia symptoms and I had also pushed for a long time,

(...)

but he didn't ever come out the birth. Finestionally. Yeah, the first time I peed after giving birth to Maeve was a better experience physically than after delivering via C-section.

(...)

Interesting.

(...)

Because I had pushed for much, I mean, it wasn't so beat up down there.

(...)

(Mumbles)

And I did tear a little, like it's not like, you know, I have stitches,(...) but it was so much better.

(...)

How much did you tear?(...) I had a first degree in my perineum, perineum. Perineum. I don't even know how you say that. I probably said perineum.

(...)

Some second degree internally.

(...)

Ew, it's not ideal, but.

Honestly, I don't know if she can't have it fast. But you're fine. Yeah, I'm feeling great, whatever.

(...)

Oh my gosh.(...) Okay, emotional state slash hormonal shift. How are we feeling?

(...)

I haven't,(...) I still feel like myself, which I didn't for,

(...)

probably until I got pregnant with Maeve after Kieran. Like I have been in a state, I think, of unhealth since I gave birth or pregnant.

(...)

Wait, so you felt better once you got pregnant.

No, I'm just saying,

(...)

I think even when I got pregnant, I was still not fully myself, which was 18 months post-Kieran. Interesting.

(...)

Yeah, like I'm pretty sure I had postpartum depression now after feeling this. Like I,(...) when I have problems right now, I feel like I can solve them because I am myself.

(...)

Versus feeling like my body had been hijacked

(...)

and I didn't know how to respond.

(...)

You heard it here, folks. Second kid, just had another kid.

(...)

That's crazy. I will say you're only seven weeks in. So, for some toxic negativity. Still a good hit.

Yeah, we can do a toxic negativity episode next.

(...)

(Laughing)

Just like, I feel like mom has always said eight weeks is when she felt the most like, all the sleep deprivation hit. Not that that's gonna happen to you. I'm just like, if anyone's listening, just always be ready for the signs if they come back because they could come back at any time.

(...)

But they won't for you. You're doing great.

(...)

(Laughing)

Okay, I'm gonna push back a little bit on the toxic positivity trope joke, because it was funny, but now we're keeping the bit alive and I'm here for it.

(...)

But I do just want to,

(...)

I think that when we first become pregnant, for first time moms, at least this was my experience, you,

(...)

when someone's trying to sell you a product or sell you a course or sell you information, and let's be honest, most people are trying to sell you things most of the time, I think.

(...)

Yes. It's this magical, empowering, incredible experience. People come out, you hear about birth and people's partners will say, God, your body's incredible. I couldn't believe you could do something like this. So it's really this experience of kind of this communal experience that women go through and being powerful and overcoming, even though it's really, really, really hard.

(...)

That was my experience.(...) And those were the births and the stories that were talked about.

That was your experience with Kieran or with Maeve?

With Kieran, that was the narrative I absorbed.(...) That was what you're aiming for. So I think when you have a really hard or unexpected delivery,

(...)

for me it felt isolating, as in,

(...)

I didn't understand that recovery could be proportional to the difficulty of the birth,

(...)

if that makes sense.

(...)

It does. So I was holding myself to the same standard health-wise to every other delivery out there, which,

(...)

I don't know, because we don't talk about how hard or easy birth is. It's just birth. It's kind of one size fits all.

When people told you you had a traumatic birth, were you just like,

(...)

no, when I'm fine? How did you...

(Laughs)

Well, I think I heard that and I thought,(...) why tell me that? My baby's alive, I'm alive, we're okay. Yeah. What else could I, there's nothing else I could have controlled.

(...)

But-- Because when they told you, was it in a,

(...)

this is important information for you to know so that you can process, or did anyone say,

(...)

this is going to affect your recovery? Or this is likely to affect?

(...) No one spelled out the recovery for me. It felt like it was more, you should process this mentally, emotionally.(...) Sure, and you were like, wait, this is also a physical.

(...)

Well, I mean, all that happened was a six-week checkup. If you look at my birth medically, like the postpartum care, it was the exact same as every other delivery ever.

(...)

And you hear stories of women having cesareans, and that is wildly more difficult than a healthy vaginal delivery.

(...)

Or like, oh yeah, I had an infection in the hospital, but we're good now. I mean, it's just, so anyways, this is all to say,

(...)

I kind of do want to be toxically positive because I'm not lying.

(...)

No. Now, and now I know how brutal the years have been.

(...)

After Kieran's delivery were. And I think we should draw some distinction. I don't know.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Because I want women who've had a terrible delivery

(...)

to A, know they're not alone, and B, know it can be really different the second time.

(...)

Yeah, because honestly, even when you went into labor, and I heard you were getting induced at what, 37?

(...)

In a few days, yeah.

(...)

I looked at Kevin and I was like, there's no way this is gonna go the way that we want it to go. Like after her, I just, I was so sure it was gonna be a disaster. Not a disaster, but I was so sure it was gonna be so hard again.(...) Me too. But then it was, I mean, it's amazing.

(...)

You did it. Your body did it something. The universe did it.

(...)

It happened.

(...)

Here we are.

Here we are.

thought women were faking when they were functioning after giving birth,(...) or like putting too much pressure on themselves. I literally thought they were lying to themselves.

(...)

When you were so functional after your children's birth, so I was like, she's lying to herself. She's gonna crack and break down sometime. And now I'm like, oh, she's probably fine. You're fine. You can, it's fine.

(...)

I will say I felt very mentally functional, but I do need to be better about resting for my pelvic health.

(...)

But that's why we have pelvic floor physical therapists. Right?

(...)

Well, also I did the, I kind of did the 555, where it's five days in the bed, five days on the bed, five days around the bed for recovery.

(...)

Not fully, but the crazy thing about this recovery was that every time I woke up for a new day, my pelvic floor felt different. It was healing that rapidly. And you noticed. That I could notice. Wow. I was like, wow, bodies are so cool.

(...)

That's amazing. Because it was just one big mess last time. Just to blob.

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah.

Transcription Pending

(...)

Transcription Pending

(...)

Okay, how are we doing on body image slash like feeling strong in your body, this postpartum?

(...)

I'm wearing jeans right now.

(...)

Like not maternity jeans.(...) Jeans.

What the heck?

(...)

Yeah, it took me five months to get into this pair of jeans with Kieran, but, and they're stretchy and they're boyfriends. Like they're not my favorite pair. They're not super cute.

(...)

Wow.

Yeah.(...) Like on purpose.

(...)

Good guess. Yeah.(...) Oh my gosh. I'm still, wow. I don't think I've ever worn jeans that fast.

(...)

Huh. We did some like impromptu family photos last weekend. And I was like, okay, I need some pants.

(...)

I'm just gonna try a few on and cry a little bit and it's gonna be fine. And then I didn't cry.

And then there were no tears.

(...)

Yeah, credible.(...) Okay, how are we doing on sleep deprivation?

(...)

Is Kieran sleeping through the night?

(...)

Kieran's still doing great.

(...)

Here's something that is surprising to me.

(...)

Kyle and I just immediately started sleeping in separate rooms when Maeve came.

(...)

Did you talk about it or it just like happened?

No, kind of just the first week he was in there, the first two weeks he was in there because I was like,

(...)

I just want some, some morale. Yeah. Moral support here. Yeah.

(...)

But no, it's been working great actually.

(...)

Kieran soothes after she screams every two or three hours for some food and then I nurse and then she pretty much goes back to sleep, which never happened with Kieran. So I don't really need a lot of support from him soothing her.(...) And he can't breastfeed.

Can't breastfeed. So here you are.(...) Does she poop a lot? Like are you doing the diaper changing?

(...)

In the middle of the night, yeah. But then you can go back to sleep fine.(...) Yeah.(...) Nice.

I remember when we were at the midwives for Kieran.

(...)

One of them said to us, you know,

(...)

everyone does things a little bit differently, but we've had three kids now and my husband and I have found it's really beneficial to the family to sleep in separate bedrooms for a while if you're breastfeeding,

(...)

just so you can get as much sleep as possible. And we left that visit and I was like, I'm sorry. I'm not gonna get divorced.

(...)

(Laughing)

Like I immediately went to separate rooms. I don't think so.

Well, our parents never, I don't think they've ever slept in separate rooms.

(...)

Yeah, dad also said he slept through all the crying.

(...)

I mean, they're just, I'm learning that that's not normal. I always thought that was very normal and typical. I mean, we're even talking like illness, like they're still in the same bed,(...) but yeah, I'm hearing more and more that that's not.

(...) We sleep in the same bed when one of us is sick usually.

(...)

Usually we do too, but if it's like a bad enough cough where someone's like up all night coughing,

(...)

then they go to the guest

(...) Well, that's just, it's surprising to me that we kind of, we've divided roles more so. Like our roles are just more clearly defined and separate this time around.

(...) Also you're not working full time.

I'm not working and he is.

(...)

And it's just the divide and conquer

is new for us. But then he lets you sleep in the morning, correct? Yep, he gets Karen.

(...) Yeah, so then I catch up on some sleep.

And Maeve still sleeps in there.

Choose whatever, I don't know, depends.

(...)

Depends on the morning.

(...)

Okay, do you have anything else like very postpartum, physical, emotional specific? I have questions about like your lifestyle as the mom of two slash full time mom, not working that like that sort of stuff. So before we leave this specific postpartum area.

(...)

I think the biggest thing is I do not have

(...)

the brain fog that I did.

(...)

Like looking back, I was just kind of dumb, like for months and months responding to texts and phone calls seemed like Mount Everest.

(...)

Yeah.(...) And I was just, I would wake up all the time to make sure Karen was breathing.

(...)

And I think it's because it just worked so hard to get him here with Maeve, I'm like, she's okay.

(...)

She came out. She's fine. She's fine. The preferred way, she's gonna

figure it out. She's a trooper.

(...)

Yeah, the anxiety is just not,

(...)

it's still there, but it's not as present.

(...)

Oh, I was just gifted this tonic that I meant to send you and now I forgot. Mothers,

(...)

I will post it in the link. It is, it's sort of like the

alternative to eating your placenta. Some people say like eat encapsulating your placenta is supposed to help with hormonal regulation.(...) Right. Plus like just replace your iron. This is just like a nice herbal supplement that you like take a shot of every day postpartum and it's supposed to, yeah. And it's apparently it tastes great(...) and it's like just to help you make milk and regulate and I will add it to the link. Really wish I could remember what it was.

Okay, how are we doing as a mom of two, right? Like it's so hard when you realize that you're not gonna just have Kieran anymore.

Right, I'm thinking like to our maternal compass series that we're in right now. And Caitlin asking me about mom guilt and me just kind of being like, listen, I'm pouring so much of myself into Kieran. I think he's good. I think we're good. I don't worry about the mom guilt.

(...)

Definitely a mom guilt with number two.

(...)

Because she is a Velcro baby. Sure.

(...)

And I can't hold her all the time.

(...)

I mean, if Kieran cried as newborn, I was soothing him immediately.(...) She has to wait sometimes, which feels terrible so that I can address the more sentient two-year-old.

(...)

I have a lot of mom guilt surrounding his needs being met.

(...)

Yeah, mom guilt's real, it's real.

(...)

More present.

(...)

Yeah,

(...)

let's hear this right in. I mean, this has happened for as long as we've been a species. It's not, I'm not special.

I know, but I always find it so hard before they can give you any signs. Like once they can really start smiling purposefully, that sort of thing, or when they start to like giggle, it is so much easier for me when they're giving me feedback.(...) When they're just like that little baby and you're doing your best and they just cry. It's just so sad. That is so sad. So sad. Some people don't seem that bothered.

(...)

And I wish that I was like that because, ugh. Like you know rationally you're doing your best, whatever, they're fine, but it is tough.

(...)

But then sometimes I think about,(...) I'm pretty sure there are programs where you can volunteer just to go into orphanages and hold babies because it helps them form attachment bonds because you can really mess up a newborn if they're not held enough. And I just think about-- I even do that for

the NICU. Yeah, I think about that.

And I'm like, Emily, what is

your problem?

(...)

Yes, stop thinking about that.

(...)

We were unpacking our Christmas village and it's like the Dickens one.

(...)

And I'm currently reading, I had just read an excerpt from "Christmas Carol" so it was fresh in my brain. And I was like, oh, that's the board in front of the kids. Oh yeah, that's the boarding house where Scrooge got left and right got all messed up.

(...)

(Both Laughing)

And then of course, Charlie for the next like hours asking me all these questions about-- How did he get messed up? Why was he left there mom? Yeah, it was rough. It was an inside thought. Should've stayed an inside thought.

(...) (Both Laughing)

(...)

What did you do when you had Nora?

(...)

Like how did you balance the shift with the two?

Tips and tricks, please.

(...) My baby wore a lot because that's what she preferred.

(...)

She just wanted to be in the Moby.(...) So that's what we did most of the time.

I will say I kind of nap trained her earlier. Either she was just better at getting put down or I just did a better job being purposeful about it. But then I would have hands-free time that I knew I could devote to Charlie,(...) which felt really good

because she would even be in a different room. So like we could do something together.(...) Mm-hmm.

But again, I was working halftime so I didn't have them the whole time either.

(...) Oh, right.

Yeah.

I remember the nursing was the hardest part because he got super jealous every time I nursed(...) and would be so naughty. Oh yeah.

(...)

And people were like, "I'll have a nursing bag of fun things that he gets to do." He didn't give a fish about anything in that bag when I was nursing. I mean, it was just,(...) yeah. And that just was a stage.

Yeah, mom brought up the nursing bag thing and I'm just like, "He doesn't like the same stuff every day."

(...)

Works for people because they continue to recommend it, but I couldn't figure it out.

I can't seem to get his attention where I want it. He seems very clear.

(...)

He doesn't do what you want him to want to do.

And I'm like, okay.

What's with this kid? I think his own thoughts.(...) I feel good about that, but.

(...)

Yeah, for a while he would go into the bathroom and turn on the shower to plan with the shower curtain open.

(...) Oh, that's an interesting one. When I was nursing.

(...)

Huh.

(...)

Or now he just gets into the fridge(...) and eats whatever he wants.

(...) Ooh, I mean, that is a smart kid.

(...)

Cause like it's gonna take you longer to get to him.

Oh, he knows that.

Yeah, and that's the move.

(...)

Ooh, here's something to look forward to.

(...)

Nora was up all night cause we're potty potty training and she needed to poop and whatever, it's fine. She was up like literally all night, three nights ago.(...) So Charlie tries to wake up and Kevin and I are like, buddy, like we have to sleep. You can come sleep in our bed with this. And then finally by 7.30, he's like, mom, I'm hungry. And I'm like, oh, this kid needs to eat. Like, so I said, you can go downstairs. There's bars in the fridge, like the perfect refrigerated bars that are a special treat. You could get one. He nearly takes himself downstairs,(...) gets himself a bar, gets his coloring out. We slept for like another 45 minutes. He was incredible.(...) I mean, I was like, wow, if my youngest is four. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

(...)

Anyways. Very self-sufficient,

contained.(...) It was amazing. And then I was like, I'm about to have a newborn.

(...)

Yeah,(...) I mean, listen,

(...)

I'm thrilled with my situation right now. This is the toxic positivity episode after all. Cannot wait for your postpartum episode.

(...)

I

see. We shall see. You're gonna be great. You're gonna be great.

(...)

Yeah, I've never had to be home though so much. I mean, postpartum, like I was home the first three months, but Kevin kind of was too. It'll be a whole different ballgame.

(...)

Okay, how are we- Okay, the lack of adult conversation is really wrecking me. Yeah.

(...)

Yeah, anyone, just feel free to call me.(...) Do you want my phone number?

Email me. In the show. Email me, I'll send you my phone.

(Laughing)

(...)

How are we structuring our days to get through them? We found any tips and tricks of...

Sorry, I thought you were gonna finish that sentence.

(...)

(Laughing)

I just could see your face. So they look like a deer in the headlights. Yeah, as I was saying it, I was like, we got nothing here, move on.

(...) So I'm meal prepping for the first time on Sundays.

(...)

It's funny. Sundays I am ordering groceries for pickup and I'm figuring out three easy dinners for the week. This is new.

Grocery pickup is new for Emily. Yeah, I hate it. Like I love it.

You love it and you hate it. I love it, but I'm like, which jackass picked my produce today? I know. It cannot be the really, really nice young man who delivered it to my car because he was lovely.(...) All the people delivering the food to my car, I'm a really big fan of, they're just a delight. They cannot be the ones loading up my grocery bags with this fish.

(...)

Yeah, they're just so thankful for them.

(...)

I am, honestly. Bag gets put on your porch. I am just filled with gratitude.

(...) Oh, I'm not Instacartic, I'm picking it up.

(...)

Okay, then it might be somewhat different.

(...)

So one recipe for success for Ciaran has been to be out of the house by 10.30 the latest. Okay. So I sleep in the morning because that's when Maeve likes to not wake me up for three hours and Kyle gets up with Ciaran and they hang out before work.

(...)

And then I get up when Kyle goes to work and we have breakfast if Ciaran hasn't had breakfast, we color, we do some activities, we get ready for the day. It takes me like two hours to ramp up to getting in the car. Just to go to the bathroom and brush your teeth.

Yeah, yep.

(...)

Ooh. Yup. And so then as long as I get him out of the house, even like some days we've just gone to pick up groceries and gone home, which feels really lame, but at least it's a change of scenery. Yeah, you might see a digger on the way. We, oh, there's so much construction that's been phenomenal. Perfect. So now we try and go to a park before we get the groceries.

(...)

But if I can get out for a little bit(...) and then make him lunch and then he has a really long nap from like 130 to 430,

(...)

then you've basically made it. I've made it, it's fine. Then you're just in survival mode until Kyle gets home. Yeah, I can do that.

And like it might be a disaster, right? That like hour, hour and a half. Is it meltdown city for you?

(...)

No.

Oh, he's usually pretty good. It's transitioning away from whatever.

(...)

The meltdowns tend to happen publicly actually. Nice, cute. So I've gotten pretty good at wearing the baby at the playgrounds and football carrying a screaming, flailing toddler

(...)

that I've already negotiated with. Like it's, I was gonna say something inappropriate, but I don't know, like a high stakes negotiation that I'm not gonna make a terrible joke about

(...)

for 20 minutes.

So I can't even picture him melting down. Like I don't think I've ever seen it actually.

It's devastation tinged with rage. Yeah, it's actually like, yeah.

Cause Nora's is like mostly rage, which is a lot easier to just pick her up and put her where you need her to go.

(...)

Well, and she gets there so quickly. I think Kieran actually does try to communicate really thoroughly what his needs are, which is harder, I think. Yeah, yeah. He's more like Charlie style, which is really sad.

(...)

Yeah,(...)

Have you had any like really big successes about managing two

I mean, you're seven years in. So far he still really likes her. Oh, that is, yeah, that's incredible.

(...)

No take her backs yet.

(...) No, he literally just loves her. Any frustration or animosity has been towards Kyle or me, mostly me, which has really been tough.

Okay, but can we just like give us a little bit of reality and he has smacked her multiple times, like just for listeners?

Twice. Oh, okay. Only once, and it was not a hard smack. It was a testing smack. He was making eye contact with me and seeing what I do. It was not hard. Oh, so it was more about you. Oh, it was always about me. No, he, yeah. Yeah, it's definitely boundary pushing. Yeah. No ill will towards her.

amazing.

Okay, this is your first postpartum as a full-time mom. You don't have this like, oh, I'm about to go back to work in the horizon.

(...)

Even though I know you spent this much time home.(...) Like you spent a lot of time home last time. Oh, it's amazing. It was a ton, but you always were like, oh, I'm gonna go back to work. Are you having any shifts in how you're feeling about that?(...) The stage.

I think right now,

(...)

being able to spend so much time with Kieran has been such a gift that I want Maeve to have that.

(...)

So I don't want to,

I guess I'm feeling a little relieved.

I'm feeling so grateful to be able to be with him so much. And I'm also feeling like I'll be happy and comfortable to send him to a preschool soon.

(...)

Nice.

(...)

Which means to me, this is temporary. Like it's kind of confirming that. Sure.(...) At least in my brain.

(...)

I'm feeling,

(...)

we don't know if we want to do another pregnancy, but that's probably gonna decide some things.

(...)

So for traditional work, I'm still paused.(...) Feel okay about that.(...) For at least the next two business quarters.

(...)

(Laughing)

But I will say, I think I was subconsciously terrified for this postpartum period. Actually, overtly I was terrified more for the postpartum period than birth.

(...)

With Kieran, postpartum was so much harder than my 54 hour labor and delivery that now that I'm in it, I'm feeling a lot of relief and energy to put towards the future, which I have kind of been unable to grasp previously.

(...)

And now I'm waking up and I'm thinking, oh my God, we've got to renovate this kitchen. Okay, let's get some countertops ordered from a Nards. I mean, this is where my energy is now.

(...)

That's so great.

(...)

Yeah.

I will say also, I want to get your thoughts on this.

(...)

I feel like when you have one,

(...)

you kind of have the option to flit in and out, maybe flirt with your previous self as it were.

(...)

But then you're just demolished when you have two.

(...)

I don't feel demolished, but I'm just like, she's dead, you got to look to

the future, babe. Well, and you're like demolished and you have to rebuild. I mean, you're just like not, yeah.

(...)

No, that's so true. Because even like trying to get a sitter or a family member to like watch two versus one is so different or you're just coordinating. So I mean, the logistics are just. Full parent mode.

(...)

Yeah,

it's a little more legit feeling.

(...)

Yeah, I mean, I honestly think a single kid can kind of be a bit of an accessory. You get past those really needy years and then you're like,(...) okay,

(...)

there are more adults than children here. We can figure out some care situations.

(...)

And you can give your child amazing care. Like I, you know, obviously there's all sorts of situations out there. But yes, for sure. I mean, I think about my four year old going and getting his own breakfast and coloring for 45. I mean, like if we had just him, that could just be our mornings.

Yeah, that could be every morning.(...) I mean, you could have cartoons on Sunday, Saturday and then you could sleep till 10.

I mean.

(...) Yeah, no, I'm feeling a strong and a little crazy with the thought of three.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

We're gonna make it. It's gonna be great.

Just, you know, thank God I get to watch you do it first.

Every time. Every time. Sometimes I'm like, could we like flip it? You know? Like now could it be your turn?

(...)

okay. Here's my mic drop moment. Oh. I'm just gonna, again, because I really,

(...)

I don't like to talk about negative things as a rule. Like if there's a problem that you can solve, love to talk about the problem in terms of the solution.

Okay, I was just gonna say, like you are not afraid of conflict. That was a very weird thing. No, I love to dig into a problem.

If it's a problem, let's dig in. Let's get dirty and let's address it. But in terms of negative things, you can't change.

(...)

I don't see a lot of point in talking to them unless it's like you're busty. Sure.(...) And I don't know, our podcast listeners, are they our besties? I don't know. We are some fish here.

(...)

But I don't, yeah.

(...)

I just, I just-- But also, when is it like venting? When is that healthy and when is it not? Yeah. Sure.

(...) I guess my point is, I understand why as women, we don't like to talk about the hard things. We don't like to talk about how difficult birth was. We also are not given the space or the healing or I think, frankly, the respect from our society at large,(...) employers, healthcare systems,(...) systems, not people, healthcare workers are incredible.

We're not allowed, I think, to take up space once the baby's here. It's kind of all given to the baby and we don't address what happens to the mother or what is happening to the mother postpartum.

(...)

And so,(...) Callie knows I don't like to hear birth stories even if they're good, unless they're my close people.(...) So I'm not, I don't know what the solution is here,

(...)

but I do think there should be a lot more conversation about the tough deliveries or the difficult births or the medically involved situations that got a little bit hairy and scary. And

guess I'm just going down this path because I think I felt broken, if I'm being honest, after Kieran's birth,(...) like full stop. I don't know when I would not have felt broken.

So I felt broken even through this pregnancy with Maeve. I felt like my body failed me.

(...)

Sex was so difficult, literally from scar tissue that we worked through, but there were just so many layers that I felt were,

(...)

subconsciously not something I could easily recover from.

(...)

And then having this birth with Maeve, I feel so powerful now.

(...)

The negativity is kind of all gone.

(...)

That is wild. I'm on a workout app that I'm excited, hinge. We're gonna put it in the show notes. Shout out to Janie Page, who sent me that app. A lot of employers support it. So my husband's employer supports this free app. So I'm chatting with a virtual physical therapist and health coach right now. Wow.

(...)

Yeah, I just wanna put that out there

(...)

because first of all, if you've had a difficult birth as a mom, I didn't know how bad it was until I had a well-birth.

(...)

What I'm hearing is it's in line with your mantra for life, which is we'll talk about the heart if there's a problem we can solve.

(...)

And so it's important to talk about the hard labors and the hard births or the hard motherhood journeys(...) because it is likely something that's solvable.

(...)

Not that it's easy, not that you can take away the heart,

(...)

but it should be beautiful and empowering. So how do we get there?

Sure, and if a woman is telling you that it's not,(...) even if they had a really healthy, normal vaginal delivery and they are not well, or they are not feeling empowered or something is up,

(...)

I think to meet them with more than just a meal delivery.

(...)

Start there for sure, do that. Start there. Because we don't even do that.(...) I feel like it's a society enough.

And I have people who did that for me. I did not lack these things. I'm just saying,(...) regardless of the delivery, if a woman is not well,

(...)

let's dig a little deeper.

(...)

Because healthy moms are gonna make a healthy society. I just, I think we're gonna,

(...)

I think we're gonna have to save the day.

(...)

We often do.

(...)

Yeah.

(...)

Yeah. Hmm, I feel like it's to be continued.

(...)

Isn't that what we're trying to do here on this pod?

(...)

Yeah, but that specific thing.(...) Cause we often talk about like, I don't want this episode to be whiny or too negative.

(...)

So what's the fine line of talking about the hard

(...)

in motherhood? And when is that supporting moms instead of whining?

(...)

Hmm. You know what I mean? Are you asking this question?

(...)

In a,

(...)

oh gosh.

(...)

You're very pregnant. I'm so-- I wish I could help you. I'm really postpartum. What's the R word?

What's the R word where you don't have to answer the question? Are you saying the fifth?

(...) Are you recusing yourself?

(...)

(Laughing)

(...) It's a blank question.

(...)

Oh Lord. Rhetorical? Thank you. This is a rhetorical question of just like putting it out there cause you and I talk about it a lot. And that's what you're saying is,

(...)

it's important to talk about when is it not whining?

(...)

How do we empower moms through the hard to get better?

You know what? I'm gonna remove a question.(...) We're not whining.

(...)

When is it good to talk about is the question. The answer is when it's in service of empowering mothers.(...) Look at you.

Postpartum, get this baby out of me. I am ready to be.

(Laughing)

(...)

We are not talking about whiny women here.

(...)

We've been labeled as whiny for too many centuries for us to be doing that to each other.

(...)

Oh, have you had a nice glass of whiskey since this baby came out?

(...) Yeah, and I didn't, I thought it was fine. Oh, okay. It's still like,

(...)

yeah.(...) Okay. Maybe I'll have one, I'll try it again after this.

I mean, it's just cozy. It's like snowy out and I think I'm gonna make a hot toddy.

Yes, life is good people. Life is so good.

(...)

Happy Thanksgiving all y'all. We had a lovely one yesterday.

(...) This will release like a little after Thanksgiving, but yes, we are recording.

This is the Friday, we're recording this on Black Friday. Yes, I did no shopping.

(...)

Oh, I've been on my phone. It's been phenomenal.

(...) Incredible.

(...)

(Laughing)

But thankful for you all. Also thankful for you all sticking with us(...) through some crazy times.(...) No normal times for women. We could have seen coming. We did. And I think we decided to ignore it.

(...)

And then they hit and here we are.

We're doing great.

We're doing great. Love you, bye.

(...)