Snip & Sip Podcast
Welcome to Snip and Sip, the podcast where hairdressers and industry professionals come together for unfiltered hair talk!
Snip & Sip Podcast
Recruiting Your Dream Team: Hiring, Culture, and Staff Retention
How do salon owners shape their businesses to not only thrive but also reflect their deepest values? Join us for a deep dive into their unique journeys and learn how their passion for elevating the industry translates into tangible strategies for creating positive workplace environments. From nurturing team morale to balancing profitability with employee satisfaction, these salon leaders share invaluable insights that every aspiring business owner should hear.
Curious about effective staff recruitment? Blair shares her game-changing approach to finding and retaining top talent. Learn how shifting her mindset from desperation to strategic alignment has revolutionized her hiring process, attracting ideal candidates who align perfectly with her salon’s culture. Discover why a casual yet comprehensive interview process, coupled with trial periods, can be the key to uncovering teachable and willing professionals ready to contribute to your salon’s success.
In this episode we also tackle broader industry challenges—like fostering a supportive salon culture, maintaining proactive recruitment efforts, and handling client and staff departures with grace. Highlighting the importance of open communication, collaboration over competition, and the power of showcasing your salon’s ethos on social media, our guests offer a treasure trove of practical advice and personal anecdotes. Embrace an evergreen hiring mindset and build a harmonious team that reflects your salon’s unique vibe and values. Tune in for a comprehensive guide to creating a thriving, community-focused salon environment.
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Find our guests:
Blair from Pura Holistic Studio
Jade from Prive Hair and Makeup
Emma from Abbey Hill Collective
Welcome to Snip and Sip unfiltered hair chat for the other 95%. What does that mean, Gabby it?
Speaker 2:means that we offer absolutely everyone, from those hairdressers that are in a little tiny salon suite to those business owners that have multi-salons.
Speaker 1:We want to be able to chat to everyone, hear everyone's perspectives and just put everything on the table beautiful, and so today we're going to be talking about getting staff and keeping them, and so who we got joining us?
Speaker 2:we have got Jade from Preve in Melbourne, we've got Emma from Aubrey, from Abbey Hillective, and then we've got Blair from Pura in Canberra. Thank you so much, guys, thank you.
Speaker 1:We'll start pretty broad. Obviously, we're talking about getting staff and keeping them, but what actually made you guys, salon owners, to have to deal with this situation every day of your lives? Now, who's gonna go first?
Speaker 3:I can. I sort of came into this a little bit accidentally, Like I never really wanted to have my own salon and I think organically it just turned into me taking the next step. But for me the ability to do hair how I want to do hair is the main reason that I love having my own salon.
Speaker 4:I love that, blair, oh I love. I think I just really wanted to make a difference in the industry, like being in it myself and seeing there's so many things that can be levelled up. So I like having it to be able to sort of add value and to create, you know, sort of shake it up and create change and make a difference in the industry.
Speaker 5:That's why I yeah, nice, yeah, similar-ish, but it was actually pushed from more of a negative perspective. Um, my last job before doing any of any of the businesses because I've got a salon and a mobile business was I had a really awful boss and he was just really brought me down and I I was very confident and I always pushed back and could hold my own. But yeah, that really bothered me, the way that the clients were treated. I felt like it just wasn't a standard, like I wasn't able to give the best experience for the client because of the time, the capacity, the double booking, all the things.
Speaker 5:And I was like you know what this is? Just it got to the point where I'd been there about five years and I was like you know what this is? Just it got to the point where I'd been there about five years and I was like I can do this better myself, like I need to. I actually have to leave. I didn't even have a job to go to. I was like I'm so done, I don't care, I'm just going to work something out. And then, from that, did things myself. But yeah, I guess seeing a difference in the industry and being like just taught me so much, because now I am the leader, I feel that all the things that I didn't like about a salon and that I didn't like about my old bosses, I've now cultivated a space where it ticks on the boxes yeah, same percent.
Speaker 5:Yeah, yeah, so good do you want to come work with me?
Speaker 1:so do you find that you are very conscious of how it was, how it was for you as an employee?
Speaker 4:now that you're an employer for the experience, your staff get, oh, totally A hundred percent, and I also don't ask any of my staff to do something that I wouldn't do myself. So you know we've closed Saturdays and I'm like you know what I want to, you know, have three not necessarily have a three day weekend, but have me with my family, all of those things, and if I'm not going to do it, then I'm not going to do it either. And I remember the first year that I was open, we were talking about Christmas hours and I said, yep, so we'll finish on the 23rd. They're like don't we work Christmas Eve? I was like I don't want to work Christmas Eve and so, therefore, you guys don't, didn't I love about hairdressing.
Speaker 4:When it comes to, like you said, jade, you know the way clients are treated, the way staff are treated. What else Like, what else is it about the industry? The pay, the hours, like whatever. How can we work around this? Either work around this and make it better or just eliminate those things entirely. So make it, yeah, super conscious of that. Yeah, what about?
Speaker 3:you, emma. Um, I think I sort of look at myself as just finishing my apprenticeship of business ownership so I've had my salon for three years, as of like two days ago.
Speaker 3:Happy birthday, thank you, I'm like I'm over halfway to that five-year point where most like everyone's quit so um. So I am probably, at the detriment to my business, gone so far in trying to make staff happy and things easier for them that I think it has probably negatively affected my, my ability to like be profitable, um, but it's something that I'm. It's really really important to me so I feel like I can still push through and and stick to my values and stick to my guns and make it work somehow. But it's really important for me for my staff to have a good experience and make it work for them.
Speaker 3:So you know, some people might want to work Saturdays, some people don't. Um, if you want to work Saturdays, like we want to work Saturdays, some people don't. Um, if you want to work Saturdays like we're closed on Saturdays because I don't want to work. But if you want to go for it, yeah, if you want to work at two o'clock on a Sunday morning, sweet like you know, I think yeah, I think for me it was just yeah, it's.
Speaker 3:It's making it so that if you know you can work for me, then it's going to work for you yeah, yeah, but there's no like handbook.
Speaker 1:Is there? Like you'd go from being an employee to an employer? How do you know what the right thing to do is and what's actually at your detriment?
Speaker 3:yeah, I don't have exactly until you're five years in business. There you go. I still think someone's going to walk in the door one day and be like, what are you doing? And I'm going to be like I don't know, I don't know. Am I don't know? Am I allowed to be here? Someone call an adult? Oh no, that's me. I still get that every day.
Speaker 1:What about you, Jane?
Speaker 5:Yeah, same thing really, like we, just when we. I think the biggest learning curve for me, not just with business and like performance wise, but specifically with staff, is the only time it didn't work out. It wasn't that we did anything wrong or that we didn't treat them right or we didn't give them the right opportunities. We actually it came from us and the recruitment process was incorrect and we were recruiting out of scarcity. You know desperation a little bit, and actually those people, even though they weren't terrible, they were not aligned with our mission, our ethos, our values and us as a salon. And so we've.
Speaker 5:You don't have problems if you hire for the right reasons. And there has to be a huge focus, I think, on attitude, personality, not like you can't have a different personality, but you need to be a nice person, you need to have a good solution, focused attitude, because everything else you can actually teach. But you cannot teach those things, um, and you know, like, like you said, we just tailor it. We're like so what does your ideal work week look like? That would you not like? Would you like permanent part-time? Would you prefer to do three late nights and have the rest of the time off? Like we actually don't really mind. Um, it's an open discussion so that we can make it feasible for them where they're going to be sustainably happy and it's going to suit the business. Yeah, and that I was never given that as an employer. It was like this is when you work, this is when you don't, and every other monday you've got to come in for training.
Speaker 2:Okay no worries, thank you so much, so grateful. Well, that's actually a really good point, though is like in your recruitment, so it is really important, obviously, to choose the right staff. How do?
Speaker 5:you do that again? I think so we do. We do a pretty hectic like interview process. Like some hairdressers like come in and they're like, wow, this is a lot. But we make it light-hearted. But yeah, so screening call I think is really important. So before we're wasting time like getting someone in, then potentially traveling, if they're completely not aligned or they think they're going to get paid like 200 grand a year on a base salary, you know what I mean like some people actually just have no idea so we do a quick screening call tell us about you, what drew you to us, etc. Um, then it's a face-to to face interview, ideally sometimes on Zoom, depending where we go, really in depth. And we're like, hypothetically, if this happened, what, how would you respond and what would your solution be for that? And they're like I don't know why you're asking me this, and it's not even to do with hair.
Speaker 5:Sometimes it's like a random question. So we basically get to know them and their personality and then it's trade test and then it's kind of like a final interview just to see how they felt in the salon, how we felt areas that we thought were best and areas that we think are aligned or could potentially be unaligned. We're just really raw and honest and it works really well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so how's your attention of staff? It's obviously pretty high.
Speaker 5:It's honestly since we've become aligned. As we said, we did a bit of desperation hiring a few years ago when it just all went to sh1t, yeah, um, but since it's been brilliant. Like everyone's really happy, um, people are progressing, like committed um and yeah, the like if anyone left, I know it would be for the right reasons. Like I'm moving away, I'm moving on, I'm upgrading, which I would always support, but no one's left because they're unhappy. Everyone's like yeah, we're so grateful for the team.
Speaker 2:We all love each other. Yeah, that's so nice. What about you, Blaire? What's your like recruitment process?
Speaker 4:It's kind of a similar structure, but a bit more casual than yours, jade. So we talk to them on the phone first, because I'm the same. I'm like I'm not going to bring people in if they're not aligned. And I actually like them to know what we do at Pura, because obviously we do things a bit differently. So if they just want a job as a hairdresser and they have no alignment in what we do, really there's no point in having them in. Do you know what I mean? Because it's not, it's not going to fit the greater good and the cause. And then, yeah, then we get them in, um, a bit more of it. I always say to them can you come as yourself?
Speaker 5:just, you know, I don't want you to be nervous, I just I just want to get to know you, um, so not, I guess, as structured as you, but we don't tell them that it's going to be that and it is casual, but it's like it's in depth, if that makes sense, yeah totally.
Speaker 4:It's purposeful, yeah totally yeah, and then we do, I guess, if you want to call it a trial, um, but more. And we get um models in knowing they know full well that it's somebody who potentially might have a job and they're not actually working for us yet. And again, that's for both parties. So, yes, we want to see that they fit, but also that for them, I just think if, then, if they really desperately want a job, and then they come into our space and like, this is not for me, but I just really need a job, yeah, it's not going to be end up the best scenario either. So it's kind of for both parties, um, and yeah and like and everything, the way that works out is perfect.
Speaker 4:Like we had one girl come in. It was there was just too much for her. She chose the salon that had just her and one other and that's, and that's perfect, because she would never have survived anyway. Do you know what I mean? Like for her, it's not good for her and well-being and not good for the salon either. Um, and then after that, provided, like I'm, if they don't have quite this, the meet the standard of work that we do, I'm okay with that, as long as they're teachable, as long as they're willing to learn and they want to learn, because perhaps because, like you know some of the stuff I mean, I've had one staff member who's amazing and she said to me I've had more training here in the last year than I had in my last salon where I worked 10 years. So it's like, so, as long as they're teachable and they want to learn, then I'm happy with that, and then yeah, and then obviously offer, if it all aligns, goes from there.
Speaker 4:But yeah, but I've done, like what Jade did as well, like have recruited out of, because we, like our salon grew pretty fast, like and got busy really fast and it went and I always, like, used to have the attitude of, okay, this is the kind of people that I want to work, that are going to align with Pura, and it started off like that. But then we just got so busy and our waiting list was like pages and pages and pages long if it was on a paper, and I was like, okay, so I have hired people that perhaps didn't quite fit, and it never turns out well, and maybe, you know, maybe yeah, and like, perhaps I was supposed to be there for that short time just to fill the gap or whatever. But then when that happens, like I completely remind myself, okay, this is why I have to go back to the way I was thinking before. And it's funny when you change that mindset because after that you know I was putting add up after add up, after add up, and just like nothing was really coming. And then I went, okay, I have to add up, and just like nothing was really coming. And then I went, okay, I'm forgetting the ads, they're gone, I'm not doing this anymore, I'm going to realign with what we have.
Speaker 4:And I actually wrote a list because I actually had a list prior to that of people that I'd love to work for us, that I already knew were hairdressers that would fit. And, sure enough, they all actually work for us now and I've never, ever, poached them. But when I ran out of people that I actually knew, I wrote, okay, well, let me write the attributes of what a staff member would look like. And I said, okay, I'm going to get rid of that mindset of good staff are hard to get, because if I believe that that is true, because I already believe it, so I'm just going to forget that. And as soon as I did that with no ads. The next minute they just, you know like apprentice just walks in the door amazing apprentice. Two people come and say I want a job with you, like within the space of four weeks. So I think it's really important to, when you hire, to follow like you said, but also, as owners, keep our own mindset. So how do?
Speaker 1:you find staff, Like obviously people are coming to you in certain scenarios, but is it actually that easy to find stuff at the moment?
Speaker 4:not for everyone, I think. I always like to think. Where focus goes, energy flows. So people are putting up going. Oh, I've got to put all these ads up because I really really need a staff member and there's none out there.
Speaker 4:There's none out there. I found that every single like time I put a seek ad up, I've never found somebody off like I should probably not use the recruitment name. But anytime I use a like an ad, a recruitment ad, I've never, not once. But then when I we've just shared on social media and just went, you know what? We just wait for the right person. They've always come. And I'm not, I'm not saying it's that easy for everybody, but what I am saying is what you believe to be true will become anyway. So if you're focusing on the right things, it actually becomes easier. I find it interesting because every person that's that I speak to that says I find it hard to get staff. They believe that it's so hard to get staff in hairdressing what you're putting out, isn't it?
Speaker 5:it's like the, the way that you behave it, but it's a whole collective of even your branding, because if you actually get the right staff and you have this amazing culture and this branding and this energy, so it's something we always ask. How did you hear about us? What drew you to purvey hair organics and they're like I just saw your instagram. I think it's great what you do. I love the ethos. I feel like the team will really get on. It's obviously got a nice culture and that's because we hired the right people in the first place, because no one hates each other, no one's bitching. It's not like, yes, that kind of thing. And I'm you know one thing that it comes back to what we're saying hire slow, fire fast. Because we definitely held on to some people again out of desperation, like they're not that bad.
Speaker 5:Maybe they've got the right intentions and in the end I was like, yeah, no, I made a mistake they'll get there, eventually they're, they'll get there.
Speaker 2:eventually they're starting to embrace it. Hold on. In my role, I obviously go to a lot of salons, and I've been to both of your salons and as soon as I walk into that salon, I can tell who you are talking about.
Speaker 2:Like I know who is not aligned and you can just see it. It's really really clear. But you obviously know why as well. Like they need staff, they needed someone to fill this gap and they've done it for now and that's amazing. But I'm like counting down the days and I was like I'll be getting a call soon, because it is it's really clear when they don't fit that culture of the salon.
Speaker 4:So I think you have to set that up first. But you can't obviously you can't sit there and do nothing. Just I'll wait for the universe, and that, like, you have to actually like. But even if it's stuff, like jade said, have a really awesome instagram profile, show what um, show what you're about. You know, build your brand. I guess is important. So that is actively working towards getting stuff. It's not like you're just waiting for the universe, but, like I have done some other things for apprentices, for example, like school based apprentices. We were at a, like a. You know what we're about, you know what we have to offer all of that kind of stuff and send it out to all the local schools, and I found apprentices that way. So, like, I think you still have to be proactive.
Speaker 3:Just have faith that the right person will come.
Speaker 5:Yes.
Speaker 4:Just telling yourself continuously.
Speaker 5:we can't find staff. Like in the last like probably at least 12 months, we've had to like we had such a selection of who we want to employ and they've all been good. And it's because I've totally taken away that mindset, I'm like what we need will come. But then, like constant self analysis, right, you can't just put an ad out on whichever platform you want to use and be like, yeah, we'll just hope it works, like, if it's not performing and no one's coming, change the title, amend the things, maybe focus more on the financial incentives, maybe try focusing more on the culture, like swap it, like test it, like you would any kind of ad for your business and see what works and also do some market research. What are other people saying?
Speaker 4:like how does your salon stand up from the crowd like if you? Otherwise, all the salon ads look exactly the same.
Speaker 3:Yeah senior stylist needed yeah, yeah, I think for me, um, because I haven't had like a full structured interview process and recruitment process, I'm winging it, but um hopefully we all are, I think for me, I've never put a like an official ad out, so I've've used my social media to just promote the brand and the culture and our sort of values of the salon, and everyone that I've hired so far has come to me.
Speaker 3:That actually speaks a lot to you, yeah, and I think it's putting out like what we're about and then having people come to us knowing that I'm open. You know like I'm hiring all the time, essentially. And so someone was talking, I talked to a client the other day about like I can't remember what he called it like evergreen hire processing, and so it's like always being open to hiring rather than only hiring when you're hiring you should never hire when you need it.
Speaker 5:That's what they said, like hire hire before you actually need someone, because by the time you need someone, it's too late, yeah, and if, if the right person comes to you it's the right person to come to you.
Speaker 3:So yeah, mine's certainly been very much a um, a word of mouth kind of thing. Even my um, my current apprentice, um, you know, she's a mature age apprentice. She's having a massive career change and I know that there's a lot of people in town that have had said, oh, you should go and talk to Emma. She's like I already have, and so that was, you know, just nice, I think, to put that vibe out there. But yeah, I've never actually created an ad, because how do you be different from everyone else trying to be different, saying, you know, we've got flexibility, we've got this award wage, we've got like everyone's still like offering the same thing. So I don't know, it's emotional driven, though I kind of want behind your brand.
Speaker 3:I think I kind of want someone to come to me and tell me what they want and see if that can fit in with us. Yeah, rather than me being like, this is what I need yes, what do you want?
Speaker 3:what do you want because I think part of why I wanted to own my own salon was to become that environment for people to stay in the industry. Yeah, so for yourself when you said that you were just absolutely like whacked out by your, your boss. So many of my contacts and my you know, my girls that I did my apprenticeship with and stuff they are leaving the industry and so I think if we can help to come be like what's going to keep you in the industry, what do you want absolutely?
Speaker 1:what do you each do to keep the good?
Speaker 4:staff. Yeah, we have a few things in place. I think, um, sometimes, like, honestly, most salons need staff they do, and so, like a staff, anyone could walk into a salon and say can I have a job? And a lot of the time, probably 80% of the time, the staff will go yeah, oh, you're hired. You know what I mean. The salon would say you're hired. But I think, yeah, it's obviously attracting.
Speaker 4:But the keeping for me is, I personally think about, like I mentioned earlier, what didn't I love about the industry, and for me as a human being and for clients who are also human beings, and how can I make that different.
Speaker 4:And so I think that alone, like, I think, start, like, if the staff know that they care about you they're not always money driven, um, of course, they need to be paid, and they need to be paid well, which we do do that because that's important just in this world, to be able to survive and live and all of those things. Um, but just making sure that they feel valued and cared for, um, and you know, even things like their wellbeing, like for me, their wellbeing is super important, um, you know. So we have like a wellbeing program and all of all of those things and every day. It might just be something a little like that was so awesome that I love you, know, whatever it is, you just acknowledge those things and not, um, not acknowledge how many people they've got through the door quickly, but acknowledge just that acknowledgement and that if the person feels valued where they are, they're less likely to move away. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1:Yep, and is there a real emphasis I know you've mentioned it a few times, jade on culture, how, how everyone perceives the culture of the salon as well yeah, I think so.
Speaker 5:But I think you know, you, you are the backbone of the culture and so recruitment, first and foremost, you don't want to like one person that's completely misaligned is then going to trickle and create a bad effect. And it doesn't mean everyone has to be the same or everyone has to be, you know, conforming to anything, it's just an energetic thing, more than anything of values and ethos element. And I think you know, something that we do is we do weekly one-to-ones, which I think are so important and I actually think has to be done by the business owner ideally, unless there is someone which is the strongest suit for nurturing. You know, if you, if you were, for example, not not really that way inclined and you had a manager that was, then get your manager to do it. Um, but most business owners, most, I don't know, maybe I'm just speaking from, but I think you do have a genuine sense of care, um, and you're nurturing and growing a business right, and so in this one-to-one we do go through um, kpis, performance, retention, all the things, but they fill the form in, so it's massive accountability.
Speaker 5:You know, it's not like, oh, I don't know how much I'm making or why, it's like this is what I've done. And then it's a conversation, so we don't say you did this, you do that. It's what, how do you feel about how you did last week? And so it's really about how are you feeling what? How can we support you? Is there anything you want to talk about? And it could be as simple, as something got moved out of their column which was meant to be with someone else, and they actually have the opportunity to be like hey, I did actually want to say I had a half head of foil, but it got moved. And then we can actually resolve that and make them feel heard and seen, because it's all those little things, tiny little things, that tick people off, which is actually disrupts the culture and makes people pissed off. It's not like one catastrophic thing unless you're not managing right. Yeah, it just makes it bigger and bigger.
Speaker 1:Exactly, it's good because you catch it early by checking in every week. It doesn't just build up in their mind and they get triggered and they look forward to it. They all look forward to it.
Speaker 5:They their mind and they get triggered and they look forward to it. They all look forward to it. They're like if I got my one-to-one today, I'm like, yeah, yeah, yeah, it's at one o'clock, oh yeah, okay, yeah, because they're proud. Or you know, if they're not proud and they're a bit stressed, they're looking forward to discussing it with you because they know that you've got their back and going to support them with it, rather than the inverse of being like reprimanded because you haven't reached xyz.
Speaker 2:We used to have a rule in our salons and it was you're only allowed to bitch up. So if you're going to whinge, if you're going to complain, about someone you can't do it to the apprentice or you can't do it to someone lower than you. You can only do it to someone that's can help you with that problem or can help you fix it or can find a solution, because if not, then you're just being a bitch yeah, we have, we have.
Speaker 4:We have the same thing it's. It's like if you're not talking to the person who can resolve it for you and coming with your own solution, so you're going to come with me the problem, come with the solution. Then it's just that it's just gossip and bitching, that's all it is. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Something I noticed I know for you guys. Actually, all three of you have a really specific culture in your salons and I can see it from the able to portray that on social media. So I feel like yours in particular is all about like I don't want to say party, but like having fun together. We go out once a month. We, you know, have an event together. We do those things Em's is all about.
Speaker 2:like you do, you, my friends, you know, like you are running your own race, and then Blair's is all about like come, I will love you, I will hug you, let me pay for your yoga classes, um, but what I can see is that you're showing that on social media, so you're in showing that culture of your salons. You are then going to be able to get the people that are interested in that, because if someone came to blairs salon and it's like where are the monthly parties?
Speaker 4:yeah, we're gonna drug. I'll be like, huh yeah, what are you?
Speaker 2:doing? What does that mean exactly? And then they get a kombucha at yours see, we do everything.
Speaker 5:We do yeah, but no that's for the morning after.
Speaker 1:No, I like that. Yeah, I'll come to your salon when I come visit you. We have a mix.
Speaker 5:We have a mix of everything. It's like have an organic tea or have an organic mimosa, your choice, exactly.
Speaker 2:But in showing that on social media, you're then going to be attracting those clients, and I do feel like salons like yours that are successful in showing that are then successful in finding staff. Yes, um and yeah I would. If I was looking for a hairdressing job, that's what I would be looking for is like where am I going?
Speaker 3:a hundred percent what am I going walking into? Like if I, if I decided to become employed again, I'm not going on a recruiting website no yeah, I'm stalking the sh1t.
Speaker 5:Yeah, how amazing is it that you can do that, though, but that like there wasn't an option when we were actually looking for jobs as employees. There was no such thing as Instagram. You just had to wing it or like, go in and be like here's my CV.
Speaker 3:But no, I 100% like. That's where I'm looking for a job, if I'm going to be you know employed. Ever again it's on social media.
Speaker 2:So if you're looking for staff, you need to promote your culture.
Speaker 4:Totally.
Speaker 2:You do, and I see that, and I also see salons on Instagram and I'm like I don't think I'd be working there. That's not for me that one, Because it doesn't seem friendly or nice or like places that I would want to be around you know what the good thing is, though that there is something for everyone that goes, staff and clients alike.
Speaker 4:So some people would be like, oh yeah, they're out drinking. They're like, I want to be a part of that. And there's people like I do not want to be a part of that, like, whatever it is, I think it's the same. Yes, for staff and clients alike, there's something for everybody. So, like you said, you have to show what your salon culture is about. Your vibe attacks, your trend.
Speaker 2:And then everybody will have the right staff for their culture yeah, like yeah, and I think you do have to portray that like honestly as well yeah um, because not fake it till you, make it yeah, you can't fake it you can't fake that. We're such a beautiful big family and, like everyone, loves each other.
Speaker 1:In the background you can just see these people there is, though I have seen on Facebook everything that is still a shortage of hairdressers, like it's still pretty difficult to get staff, and probably in every industry. I know some people are looking overseas and there's international companies, people, sponsorships sponsorships.
Speaker 3:Thank you um that. People are looking aliens they're people um.
Speaker 1:Do you think that's a good option? What do you think?
Speaker 4:sponsoring, yeah, yeah jen, you can answer that because you were a sponsor.
Speaker 5:No, um, look, I think that there's a. This is how I opened the whole kettle of fish right, I was sponsored. I do feel like I really deserved it. I worked really hard. It was an amazing opportunity. Um, at the time, it was literally like I came on a working holiday and they basically said you know, if you work hard and you prove yourself, um, we'll sponsor you. I was like great, uh, with Tony and Guy, this was and I literally worked three months and they were like you're hired, like we'll have you, because I worked six days a week like an absolute freak and I just wanted to make money. They were like this is why we hire English people.
Speaker 5:I was like yeah, um and it was great and I think it. That is still brilliant and that there is a business owner. There's lots of benefits. I think it's three years that you're locked in, and when I say that I mean that you can't leave your job, you only have to have your job. So from a business owner perspective, that's a benefit. It's now very expensive, so the price has gone up.
Speaker 5:And there is, of course, the controversial element of thinking well, is it fair to pay someone that's sponsored more than an Australian hairdresser? Now, it wasn't like that when I'm sponsored, but I do. To be honest, that would never be an issue in our salon because we pay way above the award rate anyway. I don't know if anyone would ever find staff if you paid the award rate. But no, seriously, like you pay above the award rate, so it wouldn't be competitive, for you pay above the award rate, so it wouldn't be competitive for sponsored or non-sponsored, because we actually pay by experience, merit and what you charge. So the more you charge, the more you get paid and your target is higher. So it's all in relevance. But yeah, I think people overseas do deserve an opportunity. Why not? It's great. Regardless, I wouldn't really care where you were from, if you came and you had a wealth of knowledge, great attitude, and we're gonna be a great addition to my salon.
Speaker 5:Whether you're sponsored or australian, I actually don't mind yeah, yeah I just think, good people are good people yeah, totally, yeah, yeah and it sort of suits that whole.
Speaker 1:There's a place for everyone, even if you're more expensive yeah, I think.
Speaker 4:I think the only downfall you want to make sure you get the right person, because obviously it's awesome if they're locked into you, but not so awesome if they're locked into you.
Speaker 5:Right, do you know what I mean? That's where work and holiday comes in, because if you get them on that, you get to trial them out and you do then pay to sponsor them.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 4:I think bigger than that, though obviously we need to continue to grow apprentices in the industry as well, so that we actually that problem is disappearing yeah, decline, yeah yeah because that problem's filtering up at the moment, isn't it because we're not having apprentices?
Speaker 3:we're not having, we don't have juniors? We don't have seniors. Yeah, so it is yeah, whereas I feel like, if we filter that down, yeah sort of chunk down and just really create.
Speaker 1:So the ideal scenario, then, is that we have retention for all the perfect people, yes, but normally they're go-getters and they want to get somewhere, and so they might end up leaving. How do you guys handle staff leaving in terms of the clients they bought with them or the clients they take with them? What sort of support do you, as business owners, give them, and how do you feel about it?
Speaker 4:Yeah, totally Do you know what? Like I think that you know, from my perspective, if they're not leaving eventually and going to things that are bigger for them, then we're probably holding them back. Does that make sense? In regards to clients, nobody owns people. I ever so, whether the client wants to. If the client wants to stay in the salon because they love the salon, then we've done a great job of the salon. If the client wants to, that's the culture, that's right. But if the client wants to go with the stylist, because either they follow the stylist or they just have a good relationship with the stylist and the stylist has a great, we've done a great job for the stylist.
Speaker 4:I am not somebody that will be like, right, you know, you can't. You know like, obviously it's not good to be going through someone's system and contacting people because that's obviously evasion of privacy of their details, so that kind of thing. But the client will always go where they want to go. So you know us thinking that we own people and that they have to stay and save people. Well, you're actually. You're not doing yourself any justice for your culture or for your own mentality or any of that. We don't own anybody and they'll always find the stylist that they love, or they'll stay at the salon because they love the salon. That's just the way it is.
Speaker 3:That's how I feel I'm definitely again, I suppose, being on that smaller scale. If someone doesn't want to be in my salon, whether it's staff or a client, see ya.
Speaker 1:You're the most supportive.
Speaker 4:No worries, I'll give you a cuddle on the way out.
Speaker 3:Hey, because I've got a wait list as long as my left leg for people who want to be in here.
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:So you know, like I've had it where someone has left and I'm like we opened up our clientele because we got a new staff member and now, if they don't take some of them, yeah, what am I going to do with them? Yeah, are you?
Speaker 5:sure you don't want to go with them.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, and let me pass on her mobile number yeah, but every time that has happened to me, I have publicly said this is where you can find this person, and I'm lucky because no one's left in like an awful way or anything. It's always been a fairly positive ending of our relationship, as you know.
Speaker 2:employer and employee.
Speaker 3:Conscious, uncoupling, yes, but I think, yeah, it's really important that this is where to find this person. This is how you get in contact with them. If you've come to the salon through that person, you're more than welcome to stay. We'd love to have you. If you're an original client of the salon and you were seeing that person and you'd like to follow them, please do so. So I think no one owns anyone and I think, like we're all too busy to be dealing with people that don't want to be with us, like it's like oh, 100%.
Speaker 5:Let it go I agree and disagree, though, because I think there's ethical ways to go about it yes, 100% 100%, and especially with our other business, which isn't a salon.
Speaker 5:We have contractors, but we are the company that gives them all the work so they can do whatever they want, however they want, but it's really important that they could literally. It's the difference of trust, because they could just be like here's my card, I'll charge you less, and then that would be the end of our whole business. So we have to employ with really clear boundaries and guidelines, but ultimately it's upheld by respect and trust, right, um, and so the same for the salon. Like, yeah, we, we don't own anyone. We would never call up a client and be like, uh, we noticed that you stopped seeing us and so, and so there, yeah, what's that about? Like, we'd never do that.
Speaker 5:But in the same turn you know when we do depart, and it's only happened we had a couple of really negative ones. Someone opened a salon with like one word different um, so copied the whole name of our salon, um, which is pretty bad, and there was some clients contacted, but you know what? They all ended up coming back to us, um, and I think it's it's actually then. No, not a reflection of you, because you've upheld everything, you've done everything right and I was proper cut about this like I lost sleep over it, because I was just like how could you do that? I can't understand.
Speaker 5:But then got over it, obviously, um. And then, yeah, another staff member said similar thing, like basically said, oh, I'm just leaving and you know, um, not going to do anything, so told all the clients that there was going to be a sabbatical, and then the next day post leaving, did four weeks notice and everything was like hey, I'm here, and I was like oh, why wouldn't you just tell us like yeah, and because we actually would just support you, yeah, and be like all the best and you know. So I think that. But it all comes down to recruitment again, though those two people were actually not aligned they were not aligned.
Speaker 5:And so now I know everyone that we have, like one of our staff, was like hey, I really just I want to cut down my days. I've been dying to tell you I'm freaking out. I'm like why, like you can? She's like are you sure? I'm like yeah, it's totally fine. And so, yeah, boundaries, like yes, I know what you're saying. I Audrey's like yes, I know what you're saying, I'm not disagreeing, you're not hitting me.
Speaker 3:No, no, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 5:But I would. I think we, I would be upset and I think it would be misalignment with who you're recruiting if they think it's okay to just be like hey, everyone, I've been doing your hair, so like come with me. Yeah, if it was me I'd be them. But you know, if, if you have me on the periphery, like feel free to reach out kind of, do you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:yeah, yeah, it's got to be a respectful thing, I see on facebook a lot people saying like, and I don't know if there's much anymore, but it used to be must have our own clientele so you're hiring someone and then you must have their own clientele, but it is great, when that happens though, isn't it? You know when?
Speaker 5:they're like I've got a full clientele.
Speaker 4:I'm like come on in, except for if you've already got a wedding list this long.
Speaker 3:But it's like oh no, you're not doing that, we need to hire someone else.
Speaker 2:With a must-have-own clientele and then they leave or someone else leaves. Where did that person get their clientele from? Fine with taking that person's clientele yeah, that salon's clientele. But then, as soon as someone takes your clientele, you're like how dare you? Yeah, like you've kind of got to be it's that scarcity mindset.
Speaker 4:You know how you're talking about scarcity mindset with the recruiting. It's the same with clients. Yeah, like there is enough clients out there for everybody every salon to be fully walked there really truly is. It's just, once again, you, the clients, will come to you because of what you have to offer and I've had, you know, some clients follow another stylist, junior stylist, elsewhere, but then they came back because they're like I just love this place yes, and she was in my hair, but it's the only, because she's the only person that had done it. But this place, I just love the experience of this place and that's fine, and if she?
Speaker 4:didn't, but if she didn't come back, that would be okay too, because then obviously either we they didn't see value in the extra stuff that we were doing or we haven't done our job properly, and that's feedback for us to um, to give them a better experience. So I think we've got to get rid of that scarcity mindset but, like jay said, I think still think we need to do it respectfully, like I said, not contacting clients and telling them where you are. But you know, with the right people, um, like I have said before, oh yeah, they're here and they're like. Oh, you tell them that, like well, yeah, because well, that person followed that person here anyway, like I'm not going to not tell them where they are, like you know it's like yeah, yeah, there is definitely weirdness like that.
Speaker 5:I think in a lot of salons like I, some of my clients found me I'm talking years later as well, because I actually wasn't in a salon at all for ages and they were like, yeah, I called up the salon like my old employer, and they were like she's moved back to England.
Speaker 5:And I was like no, I never moved back to England Like you know the random story, yeah, she's just gone off there and they were like I was genuinely worried about you, thinking like, oh my God, she's been in Australia all this time, like is she okay? And it turns out you're fine, yeah.
Speaker 4:I've had one where they were told that I was, that they believed that they'd booked in with me. I hadn't been there for months and then when they turned up they said, oh yeah, she's sick today.
Speaker 2:Oh well, I didn't even work there and then I, I feel like so bad now though it would be harder to do that right, because on Instagram, as talent owners and you guys, this is before my salon- yeah, and like we expect staff to have their own Instagrams.
Speaker 2:We expect them to attract their own their clients through their Instagrams, and so we're expecting them to do that and bring them in. And then so when they leave, their clients are following them on Instagram because you've asked them to like. They did their job, they got their clients to follow them. And then they say hey, guys, I don't work there anymore, but don't ask me where I work.
Speaker 1:I can't tell you like then what?
Speaker 2:yeah, like they're gonna say this is where I work now. Yeah, and I don't think that's a dishonest thing to do. That's not saying hey guys, definitely no, it's just like this is where I work now see you there or not, you can find me exactly for staff as well. Like now, if I work in a salon and someone said, oh, where does such and such work? Now I couldn't say I don't know, because I do know, because it's all over their Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And it's quite clear, I would know yeah and so yeah.
Speaker 3:I've given people like a client would ring up and say can I book with this person? I'd be like she's actually not working for us anymore. She's started her own thing. Would you like me to give you her phone number? Yeah, you know like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I actually loved the way I think I called you and told you yeah yeah, when your staff member that one in particular left, you put on like a beautiful post on Instagram and it was just like we loved our time together. If you loved her just as much as me, find her there and it was just Still hurts and I just, If you want to have the best off ever.
Speaker 2:I just thought it was the most beautiful post in like just telling everyone like so honestly as well, like this is where she is. We loved having her and you can find her there.
Speaker 3:And I think that's the thing like. It's up to us to change this it's what the industry needs. More like this is it's. It is our.
Speaker 3:I think it's our responsibility as individuals to just open up the industry, because be there and be the change you want to see and you know I love doing curly hair, someone else, someone else might love doing chemically straightened hair. Like I've got a client that asked about extensions. The other day I was like I can do them, but not that great. But the salon down the road does them phenomenally. I messaged the salon owner and was like hey, I've got a client that wants to get extensions. Yeah, can you help us?
Speaker 1:out like do you think that people going off and doing their own businesses and being sole operators is taking away from the ability to get good staff?
Speaker 5:I don't think so I don't think so. We've actually had two applications recently of people that have gone off on their own and decided it's not for them, and it's bloody hard, emma do
Speaker 3:you need a job. Should I be like handwritten resume, or would you like it tight?
Speaker 5:babes, you don't even need to do a trade test. What have you?
Speaker 4:I think it's just once again, there's enough staff and clientele for people. Everyone's got a suit. Like what we said before, every salon has a different style, so it'll attract different staff and different clientele, and that's the same with having the single operators that attract some people. Sometimes people try, well, try it, and then they come back, or vice versa, like there's even people that are salon owners that go I've become a single operator, but actually now I want to go back to being an employee. Yeah, um, so I think I was like yeah, yeah I just yeah, I think the overall thing is like the scarcity mindset and the desperation mentality.
Speaker 4:If we took that away and we all grew as human beings and did our own growth and supported our mindset would be different.
Speaker 1:We'll support each other and you'll find that that's actually a really nice conclusion. You just took the whole conclusion of the podcast it's exactly right. Yeah, you can have my job no, yeah, absolutely um, and I think all of us just need to support each other and realize there is enough for everybody. Yeah, um, so thank you so much for talking about um, getting stuff and keeping them today. Any relevant links will be down below on the Eco Salon Supplies website.
Speaker 4:Thanks guys.