Scott Moore: Welcome to the "Building Faith and Family" podcast with Steve Demme. I'm your host, Scott Moore. Thanks for joining us today. Good morning, Steve. How are you today?
Steve: I'm well. I’ve had two days to recuperate from our annual Labor Day festival. Scott: Nice.
Steve: This year, we had 14 instead of 20, but it's still a blessing and arduous. Sandi and I weren't at a hundred percent, but it still was an incredible weekend. Relationships don't deepen with simply an occasional evening together or an afternoon. However when you spend several days together, eating meals, working together, collaborating, going for boat rides, sitting around the campfire, it is a very special connective time.
I thanked these young parents because they all are busy, and they have things to do. They're not old like me. I thanked them for carving out the time. One man told me it was a battle to get here. Because they had so much on our plate, there's so many things they could have been doing, but they were so grateful that they had come. Anytime that a family can spend a couple days together, I think it'll be one of those memories that when you look back, you'll forget most of the year, but you'll remember those special times.
And the weather was perfect. Chilly in the morning, sunny in the afternoon. We didn't have rain the whole time, and I am now a boat captain.
Scott: Nice.
Steve: Well, this is the funny part because my niece was there, and her dad, my brother, is a boat guy. I mean, this guy, he's had boats for years. Right now, he's on an adventure called the Big Circle or Loop? He’s in Saint Louis right now. He went up the East Coast, across the Erie Canal through the Great Lakes. He's now in Saint Louis on the Mississippi, and he's going to go all the way down to Louisiana then back over to Tampa. How do like that?
Scott: That's awesome.
Steve: My niece was getting the biggest kick out of watching me pilot this boat, which is a pontoon boat. This is on a little bitty lake with a little electric motor, but it's the first time I've ever been the pilot of a boat. I went for eight cruises, and the thing doesn't go very fast, and you just have to avoid weeds getting in the propeller and rocks.
Scott: Please forgive me, but all I'm picturing in my head is your brother being like, I don't know, Mickey Mouse or whatever, piloting the boat and that's just fine. But then you're, like, Goofy driving around bouncing off rocks and other boats and stuff. Steve: That's very encouraging. It really builds me up this morning. Scott: I'm sure you're better than Goofy.
Steve: Well, it depends. I pretty much rammed the dock one night, and everybody got a big kick out of that. So, I was Goofy that night.
Scott: Nice.
Steve: All right. Let's move from the ridiculous to the sublime.
Scott: Let's do it.
Steve: Father, in Jesus' name, thank You for a good weekend that we have as a family. Thank You for Your help even through the physical challenges. Thank You for the deepness of our bonds that have increased. Now we look to you to help us as we consider this precious and chosen subject.
We've talked about it for a few weeks now, but we're talking about Christ. We want to have eyes to see in the spirit who Christ is, expand our understanding of our Savior and of His role and all the different ways that He appears in scripture." In Jesus' name, amen.
Scott: Amen.
Steve: By the way, how was your Labor Day?
Scott: Good. My one son was off on a discipleship leaders retreat for the weekend, so he didn't come home from school. That's a new role he has this year. My other son did come home, so we had some fun. Did not see Henry, though. They were up at their place, but we had a good time. Nothing big.
Steve: I'm going to quiz you. What do you remember from our last few podcasts? Scott: Oh, mercy.
Steve: Highlights. Some things that have stood out. We've been talking about the rock. We've been talking about how Christ is the rock.
Scott: Yeah. To me, how pervasive this subject is through scripture and the rock isn't just, it's not a metaphor, it's living and active and it's Christ. He's been with the Israelites all along as the rock and with us as well. I mean, there's so much to it. Steve: That's a great answer. Even as I study this, I realize we could probably go over the last three, three more times just because there's so much in it, and it is so stretching, and it's so, not normally talked about, if I can put it that way. There's a certain level of biblical literacy that is needed.
There are certain themes that we hear in the church on a regular basis. If you're like me, this is a new theme. This is something that I have not been cognizant of, and yet once the little light bulb goes on, you start seeing it as you say how pervasive it is. It's all through scripture, but the biggest point is it reveals more of Jesus. This is what we're here for, to know God. This is our primary purpose, is to know Him and to love Him and to give thanks to Him. This is how we were designed and created.
Today, I'm going to start with some really, if I can put it this way, noodle bakers. I was reading in John 10 recently, "I am the good shepherd." Clearly, this is Jesus, and that's easy for me to imagine. I can see the Sunday school poster of Jesus with His staff surrounded by little sheep.
He's the good shepherd. Here's a connecting verse found in Genesis 49:24, ”His bow remained strong and steady and rested in the strength that does not fail him. For the arms of his hands were made strong and active by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob."
He's talking about Joseph. As you and I know, Joseph is one of the pivotal people in history because if there is no Joseph, there is no Israel. If Joseph hadn't been led by God down into Egypt, Egypt and Israel would have perished by famine. God made promises to Joseph. Here's one of them. "His hands were made strong and active by the hands of the mighty God of Jacob." Then there's this parenthetical expression. "From thence is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel."
When you put that together with all that we've been learning, Jesus is the good shepherd. God is the shepherd. The shepherd is also the stone of Israel. When I read that now, I'm thinking of the stone that Jacob, later Israel, slept on, the stone that was the place where the angels were ascending and descending into heaven, the way to the Father, the stone that Jacob then set upright and anointed. There's a whole bunch of images coming to my mind as I read that. Now I'm going to jump to Zechariah 3:9. It's worth reading this whole chapter. This is about Joshua, the high priest standing before the angel of Jehovah. Joshua means Yah saves. Joshua in Hebrew is Jesus in Greek. Joshua is the high priest, while Zerubbabel was the governor. Together they were going back to Israel from Babylon to rebuild the temple.
You can see clearly the connection, it's the same name and title. Joshua, high priest, Jesus, the high priest. Then God tells the angels, remove the filthy garments from Him, and we have a beautiful picture of our salvation as God takes away our filthy garments, etc.
Zechariah 3:8-9, "Hear now, O Joshua the high priest, you and your friends who sit before you, for they are men who are a sign: behold, I will bring My servant the Branch. For behold, on the stone that I have set before Joshua, on a single stone with seven eyes, I will engrave its inscription, declares Jehovah of hosts, and I will remove the iniquity of this land in a single day.”
We can spend a lot of time chewing on that one. But there's a connection between Joshua and the stone. They're in God's presence, and the stone shows up. This stone, though, is not just a stone that gives water, which it did in the wilderness for 40 years as a continual source of water to the people, to their cattle, and for the priests. But this stone has something new and different. It has seven eyes. I don't know about you, but that to me is more than a stone. This is Christ again, but with seven eyes. Consider Revelation 5:6, "between the throne and the four living creatures and among the elders, I saw a lamb standing as though it had been slain (clearly Christ) with seven horns and with seven eyes, which are the seven spirits of God sent out into all the earth."
Here's a lamb that has seven horns, seven eyes. I'm simply believing it as I read it. I don't understand it. I'm trying to envision it while I'm reading it. At the same time, I know that those four living creatures and those elders around the throne were not saying, "Ew, that looks strange." They knew Who this was. This was the son of God.
Then it says in Zechariah 4:10, "whoever has despised the day of small things shall rejoice and shall see the plumb line in the hands of Zerubbabel. These seven are the eyes of Jehovah, which range through the whole earth.” There it is again, seven eyes. I'm piecing together things here, but we have a stone with seven eyes, we have a lamb with seven eyes and seven horns representing the seven spirits, and now we have the seven eyes of Jehovah ranging through the whole earth. Your noodle fried yet? Scott: Fried, sautéed, baked. You name it.
Steve: I feel my heart being stretched as I'm reading these things. I'm embracing them. This is a picture that I want to know more about. This is an image of Christ that I want to embrace and I want to go with.
We see that this stone is living, as you said. This is not a metaphor. This is Christ. Remember Joshua, not the one in Zechariah but the one who was with Moses and God in the tent. I don't know if you ever noticed that, but it said that when the cloud would come over the tent, God would commune with Moses, and Joshua was there the whole time.
It even says at one point, Moses went out of the tent and Joshua stayed. So Joshua knew God. He knew his voice. He was with Moses. I believe that he had the spiritual acuity to comprehend that the rock was Christ, like Moses did. I'd be willing to bet anything on that one.
He knew the rock. This passage is uttered at the end of Joshua's life. Joshua 24:19-27, “Joshua said to the people, you're not able to serve Jehovah for He is a holy God. He's a jealous God. He will not forgive your transgressions or your sins. If you forsake Jehovah and serve foreign gods, then he will turn and do you harm and consume you after having done you good.
The people said to Joshua, no, but we will serve Jehovah. Then Joshua said to the people, you are witnesses against yourselves. You have chosen Jehovah to serve him. And they said, we are witnesses. He said, then put away the foreign gods that are among you and incline your heart to Jehovah, the God of Israel.
The people said to Joshua, ‘Jehovah, our God, we will serve, and His voice we will obey.’ So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day and put in place statutes and rules for them at Shechem. Joshua wrote these words in the book of the Law of God.
He took a great stone and set it up there under the terebinth that was by the sanctuary of Jehovah. Joshua said to all the people, ‘Behold, this stone shall be a witness against us, for it has heard all the words of Jehovah that He spoke to us. Therefore, it shall be a witness against you, lest you deal falsely with your God.’" Many translations render that passage as "He took a large stone." I looked at the Hebrew, and that word for large is used 528 times. In 400 of those, it's translated "great or important." It's not just a big large rock. Instead It's important. That's the rock. That's the stone. I believe it's the same stone that was with them throughout their wilderness experience. Joshua says, this stone has heard all the words of Jehovah that He spoke to us. Where did He speak to them? He spoke to them on the mountain. He spoke to them through Moses. He spoke to them for 40 years. This stone will be a witness because it heard those words, and it heard your words today, and it shall be a witness. Isn't that amazing? How many times have I read Joshua? As I do, I think about Jericho, and about winning battles. I also recognize His name means Yah Saves. Joshua is a type of Christ.
I don't know how much clearer you can get. Joshua wrote these words in the book of the Law of God. It makes you wonder how much of the Pentateuch Joshua wrote, because he was there. Then he took this great stone, set it up right by the sanctuary, and declared that this is going to be a witness.
Here are more verses, Psalm 28:1-2, "To you, O Jehovah, I call, my rock, be not deaf to me. Hear the voice of my supplications when I cry to you for help, when I lift up my hands toward your holy sanctuary."
Why would David say that? Why would the psalmist, if he didn't know that the rock not only had eyes, it could hear. This was more than just a mineral. This was Christ, and He prayed that this rock be not deaf to me when I lift up my hands. This is deep stuff. Scott: Yeah. I want to just start reading the Psalms again, because there's so many times where he mentions the rock, and it's layers upon layers of more meaning and deeper than I ever knew.
Steve: When you start reading them, start with Psalm 18. I'll read you three. Verse 2, ” Jehovah is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer, my God, my rock in whom I take refuge, my shield."
Psalm 18:31, "Who is a God but Jehovah? And Who is a rock except our God?" Psalm 18:46, "Jehovah lives and blessed be my Rock and exalted be the God of my salvation."
I'm going to read again 1 Peter 2, starting with verse four. “As you come to Him, a living stone rejected by men, but in the sight of God, chosen and precious.” My friend Donnie, who opened my eyes to this truth after God opened his eyes to it. He stopped one time and said, do you see those words "chosen" and "precious"? If God thinks this stone is chosen and precious, we need to think it's chosen and precious. That caught me, and I thought, he's right. We need to love what God loves. We need to feel what God feels.
We need to hate iniquity. We need to love righteousness and justice. These are things that God loves. He says, in the sight of God, this living stone is chosen and precious. It's not strange and bizarre because it's got seven eyes, because it can hear, because
it can give water. It's chosen and precious, and I want to line up with God's thinking. Then it goes on to say, "You yourselves like living stones." Our Savior is the living stone. He is the cornerstone, but we are living stones, and we're being built up as a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ for it stands in Scripture.
"Behold, I am laying in Zion a stone, a cornerstone, chosen and precious, and whoever believes in Him will not be put to shame." I'm taking this in, I don't believe you need to stop and give yourself to prayer, but feel free if you’d like. May God help is to believe it. May He help us to love what He loves and to call chosen and precious what He calls chosen and precious.
That's a beautiful image, but remember, this stone gave water. This stone was a source of living water. Psalm 78:15-16, 20, "He split rocks in the wilderness and gave them drink abundantly as from the deep. He made streams come out of the rock and cause waters to flow down like rivers. He struck the rock so that the water gushed out and streams overflowed."
This is a beautiful picture of this rock which is chosen and precious. It's the living stone, and we are living stones. Now put that together with John 7:37-39, which says, "on the last day of the feast, the great day, Jesus stood up and cried out, if anyone thirsts, let him come to Me and drink. Whoever believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. This He said about the spirit, whom those who believed in him were to receive, for as yet the Spirit had not been given because Jesus was not yet glorified.
Here's what I take from that. We are living stones, and we are believers. We, out of our hearts, are letting rivers of living water flow just like rivers of living water flowed from the Christ the stone in the wilderness. We are watering this Earth ourselves as believers. We're working with God. We're on His team. He's the living stone. We are little living stones, while He is the source, we are conduits. I believe that. Jesus said, you are the salt of the Earth. You are the light of the world. We are also a source of living water for all those people in our sphere. We are. When a believer walks in a room, there are living waters flowing to everybody else in the room. How do you like that for a great end?
Scott: That's a good encouragement for the...nice way to start your day, man. Steve: It doesn't say that you have to stop and pray for that to happen. Out of our heart will flow rivers of living water. We have believed in Him. And we're believing Him even as we listen to this podcast.
"Father, thank You for being the rock. Thank You for Your eyes. Thank You for Your ears. Thank You for Your ability to let water gush out of You. Thank You that when You were struck, You still, You just let it go.
"And when we're struck, or even not struck, I pray for rivers of living water to flow out of our hearts towards people that don't know You, towards this needy world, to this dark world that is caught up in so many different stuff. But we are believers, and we believe that rivers of living water are flowing out of our hearts today because of what Jesus is doing for us.
"Thank You for being our rock and our living stone. Help us as little living stones to let the water flow freely." In Jesus' name, amen.
Scott: Amen. That's our show for this week, folks. Thanks for joining us for the Building Faith and Family podcast with Steve Demme. If you have a question for the show, email Steve at spdemme@Gmail.com. Thanks for joining us. Have a great week.