Dion Glover - Parents, Children and the Maritime Industry.

You're gonna love this conversation with Dion Glover, chief operating officer of Norfolk By Boat, because we had a lot of fun with it. Dion's got a great perspective and a great story that I think you're gonna want to hear.

Listen to Dion's fantastic story about his personal experience in the industry and being parent of two twin sons that have taken a different paths in life ... One of them is in the marine industry and the other is not, not yet.

Visit www.maritimejobsva.com to discover what career and training opportunities are right for you in the Hampton Roads maritime industry.

The Regional Maritime Training System (RMTS) was established using a $11 million (41%) Good Jobs Challenge Grant awarded by the Economic Development Administration. It is supported by $12.1 million (46%) provided through BlueForge Alliance in partnership with the U.S. Department of the Navy, $850,000 (3%) from the U.S. Department of Labor/ETA – Community Project Funding, and $3.5 million (10%) from non-federal sources.

Transcript

You're gonna love this conversation with Dion Glover at least I hope you do because we had a lot of fun with it Dion's got a great perspective and a great story that I think you're gonna want to hear.

So we're talking today with Dion Glover the chief operating officer of Norfolk by
boat Dion we've been friends for Feel like coming up on eight years. Yeah.
Yeah, since since I was working in a shipyard, and you brought one of your Norfolk
ferries in there. Had a rough start, I think, a couple times? - Yeah, we did, but
we worked through it. - It's all working out now. So, you've got a fantastic story
by your personal experience in the industry, but the real reason that I really
wanted to talk to you today is because you're the parent of two twin sons that
have taken a different track in life each each one of them and I know you're
immensely proud of both of them. Yes I am. One of them is in the marine industry
and the other is not not yet.
And I think what we're trying to accomplish with this podcast is reaching parents
and teachers people like you that have got kids that are trying to decide what do
they want to do with their future. And because you've got two twin sons that have
taken such a different path, you've got a great perspective on how do you coach
one, how do you encourage the other, and how do you, if you can, well, maybe
you're just mitigating the conflict between the two. (laughing) - That's a good word.
- So let's talk about that a little bit. What brought you into the industry? - Okay.
I had a friend years ago, a long time ago. And he said, "Hey, when you ready to
figure out what you wanna do, let me know." And I was young, I was probably like
18, 19 years old. He said, "I got an opportunity for you." And when I was ready,
I went to him, I said, "Hey, I'm ready." And he took me to his job and I still
didn't know what it was. I never knew what he did. And he actually worked on
tugboats. Started working on tugboats. I got hired. I fell in love with working on
the water. And had a captain who encouraged me to go get my license. He said, hey,
you're pretty smart. You need to get your license so you can advance. You can grow.
You don't just want to remain on the deck. And I thought I'd already achieved
something about working on the water. He was exciting for me. So, I went to school,
got my license, started kind of learning more about the marine industry,
and started wanting more. And then after that, I started, I saw these ferries.
It's weird, it's so weird, Bob. I actually rescued one of these ferries while I was
on the tugboat. Yeah, I did. Somebody had cut this ferry loose, not this particular
one and it floated off and we went and kind of rescued it and brought it back.
Never knew that I would be like an owner like years later, but after working at
Tarmac I kind of graduated and went and worked for a company called Ocean Marine
and I started out just as a boat captain running running a little water taxis and
I graduated to a general manager and then I went back to boats after that.
And then David Jordan, who's my partner now, he's the president of North of my
boat. He came to me one day and he said, man, I've been watching you for years.
He said, and I think that you are an awesome person. I think that you are exactly
who I'm looking for as a partner. I watched you for years. And he said, I need a
business partner. And I said, okay, I'm your guy, you know, and we got together and
I became partners and I've been doing this for the last 25 years. We've actually
been partners for 25 years and you just zipped through a 25 -year career like that,
right? Let me unpack that a little bit. I'm giving you the express version.
So at a high school, you get a job working on tugboats and you start on this
start on this career progression we're happy what you were doing yes right because
that was something you didn't know existed. No idea no idea start out.
It was mom so you but you're an 18 year -old young man work at work on a boat
thinking man this is great. I'm happy I'm happy where I am and somebody comes and
tells you but wait there's more. >> Oh God puts on a license track. >> Now you're
driving boats, you're driving tugs you're driving tugs, what degree license do you
hold now? I hold a 100 -ton master. 100 -ton master license, which leads to now
you're the part owner of the business. Yes, yes, yes.
With one year of college experience. One year of college experience. One year of
college experience. Any of that relevant to what you're doing now? Not at all.
- What I've learned in college in the first year had nothing to do with what I'm
doing now. - And that's not a knock on college by any means. - It's not, by no
means. I'm not saying, hey, I'm an academic person, so I'm all for it, but it
doesn't fit every situation. - Sure. - The college profile doesn't fit every situation
or every student coming out of high school. - That's a great point, right? It's not
for, it isn't for everybody. - No. - And it may not be for everybody right now, but
there's no reason why somebody couldn't go back after they found an interest in
something. 'Cause you've had continuing education. - Yes. - It's not saying that
education stops after high school. - Absolutely. - Because a lot of study involved in
getting a professional license. - Yeah, and then, I mean, you got your radar
endorsement, you got your marine radio operators
And if you want to continue to grow, like say if you want to graduate from ferries
to ships, you can go get a 200 ton on a limited license. It requires more
schooling. - So that's one of the things we've been talking about is there are
multiple paths available to people and finding that thing that you're interested in.
'Cause I can think of a bunch of offshoots just from your story where It could
have been a time to go back, get an associate's degree, get a bachelor's, go get a
master's if necessary. But when you're now in business for yourself, might it have
been helpful to have a business degree? Could be, maybe, for some people,
not for everybody, but having that option, right? We never want to say, hey, you
don't need to go to college. - Yeah, that's not the message that I'm communicating.
You know, and I'm a firm believer of on -hands training.
That is the business, operational stuff. I think on -hands training is the absolute
best way to advance. And certainly we're having this conversation today, but even
more importantly, you've had this conversation over and over again at the dinner
table. Yeah, absolutely.
Having two twin sons, he's got one who's a football star and he's number one player
in the country, he skipped his senior year in high school, he completely skipped his
senior year during COVID, an academic stud who's going to play football,
he's hopefully next year after the season, he'll be going first round in the NFL.
Then his twin brother is also a football player but he doesn't have the passion for
it that Tony has and so he's not sure what he wants to do and he's not sure if
he wants to go to college and wrestle or just kind of go to college or if he
wants to work and so there was a struggle you know through high school a little
bit about you know Tony was, okay, this is what I want to do.
But Tino, he wasn't sure. So we went and visited schools all after he graduated and
we did all of that. And it wasn't for him. And I said, hey, listen, I'm gonna
support you no matter what you want to do, period. I'm gonna help you cultivate it.
I'm gonna pour into it. If that's what you want to do, I'm there. But if you
don't know what you want to do, there's an opportunity on the ferries you know, and
you can actually have a career, make a life, and make a good living, you know, if
that's what you want to do. And I know his gift is his work ethic. And so,
you know, he's been growing up on the boats, he's seen them, he's been on them a
thousand times, but actually inviting him in, and actually him actually working and
becoming a deckhand, he actually got a passion for it, you know, and then he said,
I I want you know what I think I'm gonna be a merchant marine. I'm gonna be a
merchant seaman You know how to see Tom and this is kind of a family business for
you. Yeah, it absolutely is So that's I mean what what what a great story and I
think so important for for our audience to hear is that How you how you manage
that conversation with with with kids that have got two very different Interests and
in different paths because I'm sure there had to be a little conflict, a little
tension between the two of them. There was absolute conflict between the two because
you know when you got an athlete you know all you ever hear is you're gonna make
millions of dollars you're gonna make millions of dollars you're gonna do this you're
gonna do that and then I just personally believe that you have to expose people to
this type of industry the marine industry this is not something that you just you
know you get up you walk around and you see the mailman and you see the bus
driver, the electrician or the construction worker. The marine industry is different.
You've got to be exposed to this and I think that once you're exposed to it which
was in Tino's case you know he actually fell in love with it you know opposed to
saying am I gonna ever make as much money as my brother if he makes it to the
NFL, you know, will I be able to really provide a decent living for my family, you
know, maybe help my community? Those are questions in his head, you know. So when
he started to work with us, he started to say, "Whoa, I'm making some really good
money out of high school. You know, I'm bringing home a thousand, fifteen hundred
dollars every week. This is great money for me." He's, you know, and he's working
you know and now he wants he wants to grow said you know I might want to do this
well do you want to become a captain you know we'll send you to school well I
want to do what Uncle Francisco does he's on a ship he wants to go to MSC okay
Francisco's your brother right yes he's working for the military sea lift command yes
so the big gray Navy support ships that are they're going out getting them beans
and bullets and fuel right? Guess where he started? Right here.
So now he's provided the tremendous living for himself, you know, a career. So
that's what Tino did. He got his credentials and now he's waiting on his ship. You
know, he's working three jobs, he's working here in two other places. That's a
tremendous work ethic. Yeah, yeah. That's somebody who's passionate about their career
and about the industry. But I had to, you know, and there's times you've got to
push them and encourage them. And when they're indecisive and they don't know what
to do, you know, you just don't let them wander through life aimlessly. You just
kind of kind of anchor them, but you don't also want to, you know, make them feel
like you're trying to tell them what to do or control them into doing something.
You just need to be, I wanted him to be productive. And I know that this industry
provided that opportunity to make the money, to expose him to something different and
new and fresh. Well, not new. The marine industry had been around forever, but new
to him, you know. Talked about a couple things in there, which is clearly passionate
to you, right? There's first of all, I find it kind of funny saying, when you said
your son's asking, can I provide and make a good living for my family? when he's
saying it to you and, well, you've got a pretty good life.
Exactly, exactly, you know.
But the other piece that I heard you say is for my community. Yes. That's something
unique to you, that you're doing some stuff. Talk about that a little bit.
What are you doing for the community? Well, I Thank God for this opportunity and
this position that I'm in and I know sometimes people look at certain occupations
and say, "Well, do they provide, can they?" This opportunity has helped me to
provide tremendously for my family, not just my immediate family, but my extended
family. I've been able to help tremendously my community. I helped actually starting
two businesses, prior to starting two businesses, I would help, I would take groups
of kids to visit colleges, football, and I would host camps, free camps.
I just did a free camp, 250 kids, you know, absolutely free. I mean,
no host bar, you know, we provided absolutely everything from the uniforms,
camp uniforms, the hydration, the food, we pay for the coaches, we pay for the
media, we did everything and this is all to help them provide them an opportunity
to connect with colleges to get scholarships. These are high school aged kids getting
ready for college. These are high school kids going into college and my thing is
football provides an opportunity to to get your audience with a lot of young men
And everybody, if I get 300 kids, I know all 300 is not gonna make it to the
NFL. You know, all 300 may not even get into college, but it helps me to cast a
net. Because guess what, if football doesn't work for you, there are other things
that I can introduce you to. I have a young man that just graduated high school
here in Postman Christian, And I met him at a camp.
I gave him a job here, and now he has a scholarship to Christopher Newport to play
football. But he worked with me for two years, you know? So if football doesn't
work, he has a passion for this. He loves it. So that mentorship and guidance from
here gets some work experience, keep developing that - Yes. - And moving on to other
opportunities. - Yeah. - So he worked for you here for two years? What did he do
here? - He was a deckhand. He was a deckhand. He learned, you know, the safety
systems and he actually learned how to run the boat, you know. Just was in license,
but that's one of the requirements. As a deckhand, we call it a captain
incapacitated drill. If something happens to the captain, the deckhand needs didn't
know how to get the boat to the dock or get it to a safe place. So all our
deckhands are trained to be able to maneuver the boat. So he learned that,
he learned about the engines, the transmissions, he learned about the marine linguo,
the marine linguo, you know, what we port starboard, you know, bow, stern.
All our little secret languages. All our little secret languages.
Yeah, you say turn to the left. What do you mean? Important? But I think it was a
great experience for him. He loved it. His mom loved it. And he was able to earn
some money and learn a new craft. And then depart from marine industry and go on
another path with some money in his pocket and a little less debt. Exactly. And if
this doesn't work, if that doesn't work for him if something happens and he says,
well, college is not for me. He has an opportunity to come back here. He earned C
time. I can say, hey, we'll send you to school to get your license. You come here,
you get your license. You work for us for a year, year and a half. That's the
goal to grow. - You're telling our story there, right? Like where you start does not
define where you end up. - No. - And there's so many different branches that you can
go off from this industry and the licensing that professional credentials is so
important to this industry, they're not easy to get though. We were talking a little
bit before the camera started rolling about attracting people to this industry and
hooking them young, not tricking them into the industry but showing them the
opportunity because if you don't come down to the waterfront, you don't know the
ferries here. You don't know the career that's there. But you've talked about having
young men and women come down, get exposure to it, and then understanding,
hey, there's opportunities they didn't know existed previously, and you're sending them
back to school. We actually pay for, if we get deckhands to come in, we actually,
if they have a desire to want to grow in the industry in advance, We'll pay for
them to go to school. We have a program where we actually pay for their schooling.
- That's incredible, right? Because everybody looks for fringe benefits when they go
and apply for a job, and you're very open about it. If you come work here, if you
like this, we will put you through the credentialing process to keep growing your
license and keep advancing, which is really pretty unlimited. They literally call it
an unlimited license. - Yeah, yeah, And I think it's important, you said something
earlier, we was talking earlier and you had an analogy at the shipyard about a
welder and he's an older guy and he has all this knowledge and wisdom about the
profession and then you got the super young guys but there's a gap between the
older guys and the younger guys and once that older got retires, like who's there
to pass the information on? Like we're missing an entire generation of workers in
any industry. And so in regards to the marine industry, if we don't help facilitate
to grow captains in this industry, we lose it. Can't sustain industry.
You cannot sustain. That's one of the hardest things. The problems that we have now,
Bob, is we have a hard time finding qualified workers,
people that hold credentials. So we have to encourage it. If we don't encourage it,
if we don't cultivate it, if we don't push it, we'll be the old people with the
wisdom and we'll miss an entire generation and then there'll be young people who
don't know what to do. Some of those challenges might be getting addressed now.
There seems like there's a little more enthusiasm and a little bit more interest.
The whole reason we're doing this podcast is to continue to feed that. But for 40
years, we kind of devalued those skilled trades in some of these industries.
The need never went away. We just didn't bring people in. So now we have this
tremendous need to very quickly transfer that knowledge from older experience people
to young people and we got to transfer that quickly because there isn't we don't
have the people with 10 or 20 or 30 years of experience as the people with 40
years are about to exit exactly what we were talking about earlier like where our
location is nobody's gonna walk down here and say oh there's a ferry i want to get
on the ferry you know you've got to bring it to them you've got to provide an
opportunity and say hey look we have a program you know if you don't want to go
to college here's a program and this is what we teach and this is what you'll
learn and needs of the certifications you can get there needs to be a program at
the high school level. How old does somebody have to be to come to work on? 16.
16. When I get a 16 -year -old that wants to work here I hire him. See that
question was a setup I thought it was gonna be 18 but you just said it's 16. 16
years old. And I gotta think there's people who don't know that. - Okay, so my sure
side engineer, his name is Ben Foster. He's incredible. So if David is not here and
I'm not here, he's in charge. And he handled the Kerry B for us for years.
I hired him at 16 years old out of high school when he was in high school.
When he left high school, he fell in love with the industry. He went to a school
up in Michigan. Came back, worked for us. He has his license,
he has his engineer's license, and I hired him out of high school, and here he is,
helping us run this business, you know? He's the third person in charge.
- How old is he now? - Been, maybe
32, 32, 29, I don't know, 29 and 32. - So still pretty young man,
he's number three in charge. - He's number three in charge. He's number three in
charge. - He started at 16. - He started at 16. - How much fun would that be to be
a deck hand on this in the summertime, just making the run back and forth?
'Cause you get to meet people. - Yeah. - Pretty cool run between Norfolk and
Portsmouth. - Yeah, a little five minute run. - Still get to see some stuff, right?
Ball games, you get to make the run over there and that's gotta be entertaining
with people. - That's fun, you get to meet a lot of people. You meet a lot of
people. We get a lot of politicians that ride. We deal with the Coast Guard all
the time. We deal with the FBI when we deal with the military. the whole security
drills, terrorist drills.
We're actually interactive with a lot of agencies, different agencies, and it's fun.
So these guys get to take part, and when we do terrorist training, they pull up
beside us in boats while we're running, and they board while we're moving, and they
got their guns, and they're all over the place. And when the Deccan sees it for
the first time and they're like oh my god I mean it's exciting you know you're
probably not getting that working as a stock guy somewhere you're not getting that
at Chick -fil -A. That is not the summer work experience that other people are
getting. I gotta fixate on that again 16 years old 16 years old I think we have
right now we may have we have maybe six high schoolers working right now 10th 11th
grade making really good money you know great experience one is saying he wants to
go to school now for For his license. Oh, you okay,
so he wants to stay on the professional credentialing. Yeah, he went exactly And and
and that's kind of what it takes and we know we're not going to get everybody to
it But we give him some exposure to it and if we get 20 % 30 % of the people who
get that experience and want to come back But understanding that it's there and and
and I tend to agree right? We need to get people if we want young people to come
Into the industry out of it, introduce it to them early before they pick something
else. And there's so much to do here. I mean, we're sitting here on one of your
ferries. We've got a major marine industry right across the way. We've got one right
next door, and people don't know that the opportunities are there. And if we don't
introduce it to them young, they have chosen something else. And too often, in this
region, they pick something else that's somewhere else. Let's go back and talk about
work ethic and so this is going to be a personal experience.
It won't fit for everybody and it's kind of like asking for parenting advice, but
you've been pretty successful at it in your family. What worked?
Well, I think illustration is the best thing, the best teacher, illustration.
If your children see you, you know,
winging it, you know, lazing around, playing a video game all day,
you know, sleeping in late, not getting up. If they see you, if they grow up
seeing you doing that, that doesn't create a really good picture For example,
for work ethic, it doesn't, but if your children see you up early, working all day,
hear you on the phone talking business, actually demonstrating it, not just preaching
it to them, you need to get out and work and get a job. If they actually see you
like being an illustration of what it means to go out there and work and to care
about what you do, You know, you want to contribute to your community period You
want to build something that means something if they see you do that with passion?
They'll do it They'll do it. They you know children want to emulate their parents
whether well children emulate their parents whether they want to or not You know
what I'm saying and if you put out a bad illustration They'll pick it up and
they'll become back. If you put out great illustrations, they'll pick it up. So in
all the other mentoring programs you do with the football camps and things, do you find that formula is transferring successfully that way? Yes, absolutely.
Oh my goodness. I get so many parents and kids asking advice based on what I have illustrated, what I've been through, what they've seen me go through.
And sports and in business, 'cause I'm transparent about the business just as much
as I am the sports on my platform. So they see it all. So they'll ask, you know.
I've had parents say, "Hey, can my son come work for you?"
- So we were talking about mentorship and attracting people in the industry. What do you think that is? What's unique about this that draws people and draws them to the industry and makes them want to stay once they're here? The uniqueness of the job, of the marine industry, I mean it's not an everyday job and it's not something that is easily accessed. You know what I'm saying? You can go and get an application at Chick -fil -A or McDonald's and, you know, a dime a dozen, you know, and, but the marine industry is different. You, like, you got to kind of be coached into this. You know, it's not something that you can just kind of pick up walking down a block. And I think people are attracted to the water.
They're attracted to the essence of it, you know, being out here to water the
weather, and learning something new about the engines, running a boat, I mean, it's a unique job. - It's really not the same every day. Even, I mean, you got a pretty short run between Norfolk and Portsmouth, and you're gonna do that run a lot if you're working on the ferry, but that's not the only place you go. - No. - And it's not
the only thing you're doing, this right, like you said, you're gonna come back here,
where your office is, you're going to get some experience with the boat being pierce -eyed and having to do work here, you're going to go to the shipyard and get some experience. Do you find that's what's interesting and new people coming into the industry like that varied experience? Yeah, they do. You know, I mean, and it's not just the operational stuff. I mean, you meet new people. You know,
on buses, we always say this, me and David talk about it all the time on the HRT
buses. I mean, everybody just kind of rides the bus, you know,
no matter what everybody rides the bus. The ferry kind of has a middle class
ridership profile. You meet different people, a lot of politicians,
a lot of business owners, you know, transit back and forth from Norfolk to
Portsmouth, a lot of military. You meet people. And if you weren't on a ferry,
you know, one of the biggest hooks for the military or the Navy is to travel the
world. You know, you get on an MSC ship, you can be in Italy, you know, you can
be in, you know, Africa or Alaska or anywhere, you can travel the world in this
industry. It's absolutely the reason that I joined the Navy. It's incredible, isn't
it? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it provides a broad stroke, you know, and it's extremely
unique. It's fun. If you had our local representatives, if you had our state
senators, if you had the mayors of the cities here in front of you, what would you
ask for? What would you tell them needs to change to help bring people to the
industry, to make things easier to operate, to attract the kind of people into this.
What would you ask for? I would ask for a program at the high school level that
would introduce and help facilitate growth in this industry.
That's what I would ask for at the high school level. The Governor's School program is a pretty good model for this because they've they already kind of have this.

Here in Norfolk We have the governor's school for the arts, which is for the
performing arts musicians singers The the people who put on the production the
backstage production all all of those things the other governor schools Most of them are STEM related There are some agricultural schools, but there are specialty schools for people that show an interest in in that particular area We don't have one like that for the marine industry. Exactly. That was my point. There is nothing for the marine industry. Nothing for the marine industry. There isn't one focused on the primary industry here in the area, which is the marine industry. This area, this is
what the largest natural harbor on East Coast. I think it's the largest or the
second largest natural are on the entire East Coast. I mean, we have several ports
here. This is a military installation. I mean, why are we not fostering and
cultivating and feeding this industry in this area? - With a specialty program.
- Exactly. - That people graduate high school, ready to go to work in this industry.
- Exactly, exactly. - Deon, this has been great. Thank you so much for inviting us
down here. It's been a great morning to spend having these conversations with you.
- Happy to do it. - You got a tremendous story. Congratulations. - You're awesome,
man. - Congratulations to your entire family that's running the Elizabeth River Ferry.
- Thank you, Bob. I appreciate you having me. Thanks again. Anytime, anytime.