The WWW Podcast

How to Design Your Perfect Retirement with Corinne Auman

• Wes Cuprill • Season 1 • Episode 21

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In this insightful episode of the WWW Podcast, Wes sits down with Dr. Corinne Auman, a gerontologist dedicated to guiding individuals and families through the aging process. 

Corinne shares her unique perspective on not only planning for older adulthood but also embracing it with positivity. Discover how proactive planning can transform the experience of aging, as she discusses common misconceptions and the importance of having open conversations about care needs.

What You’ll Learn:

✔️ Strategies for fostering a positive mindset towards aging

✔️ The critical role of planning for long-term care

✔️ How to support aging parents while respecting their autonomy

✔️ The significance of finding purpose in retirement

✔️ Real-life success stories that redefine aging

This episode is a must-listen for anyone looking to navigate the complexities of aging—whether for themselves or loved ones.

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Find more about Corinne here: http://www.corinneauman.com
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>> Corinne Auman:

I have a client who is 96. I just spent eight hours or so in the hospital with her A couple of weekends ago after she had a major event, she parkked right up. She started flirting with the male nurses. you know, she was, she was a hoot. You know, I look at somebody like her and I think, please let me be like that at 96, that is exactly who I want to be.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Hello there, and welcome to another episode of the Wealthwise Women podcast. This week's episode features another very special guest. Dr. Corinne Auman is a gerontologist who specializes in helping people and their families with the overall aging process. Obviously, in my line of work, not only do we help people through all stages of life, we are particularly involved with helping retirees through what I guess you could call the fourth quarter of life. So I thought that Corin would make for a great guest to have on the show. She also provides a lot of great strategies and tactics for children who will be caring for aging parents themselves. So without further ado, here is my conversation with Corinne. So before we dive in, I would. Love it if you could take a. Second to tell the audience a little bit about yourself and the work that you do.

>> Corinne Auman:

so there's a lot there.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Loaded question, I understand.

>> Corinne Auman:

Yeah, yeah. Where to start? So, my day job is as a care manager, which means that I am running a company helping people figure out how to plan for their older adulthood and prepare for any sort of care needs they may have. And also I'm helping people in a crisis. So maybe people who haven't planned and now something has happened and all of a sudden they need to know everything there is to know about different levels of care, home care, what it costs. What do you mean Medicare doesn't pay for long term care? what do you mean? It's as expensive as it is, things like that. And so that's kind of my, everyday sort of life. And then I also have written a book trying to help people think more positively about growing older. it's telling teenagers telling a new story about aging. And I get a lot of questions from people about, okay, you've written this really positive book about let's grow older and let's look forward to it. Here's how to kind of plan and prepare. And then also you're dealing with people every day who are in a crisis situation. So how do those things go together? But really what my work has shown me is that planning and preparing and thinking about what you want your older adulthood to look like, makes tremendous difference in how it actually goes and so. Which seems, like, logical, right?

>> Wes Cuprill:

But it'sazing.

>> Corinne Auman:

it's amazing to me how many people have just kind of buried their heads in the sand and said, hey, it's going to be fine, and I'm going toa just die warm in my bed and nothing's ever going to go wrong.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It's not a fun topic at the end of the day.

>> Corinne Auman:

Well, but it could be that we, if we're planning for it and if we have a positive attitude about it, that actually makes it a lot better experience. I'll give you a quick example. So, I have a client who is 96, she's almost 97. And I just spent, eight hours or so in the hospital with her a couple of weekends ago after she had a major event. And it was, it wasn't great. But as I was there with her and the day went on and she kind of got to feeling better and that sort of thing, she parkked right up. She started flirting with the male nurses. you know, she was a hoot. She was a hoot. So she's, you know, she's 96, she's in the hospital, something bad has just happened. And yet, as she kind of perked up, here we go. And her kids even talk about how her attitude has always been so positive. And, you know, I look at somebody like her and I think, please, let me be like that at 96. That is exactly who I want to be. And that's my point, is that we have a choice in how we react to all the things that are going to happen, but we also have choices in terms of planning to try to make sure it's as good as it can be.

>> Wes Cuprill:

So I do agree. I, very much subscribe to that. We have a choice, and it is ultimately our own to decide how we want to approach things. whether it's optimistically or pessimistically. what advice, though, would you have for somebody who is a little bit pessimistic about moving into the fourth quarter of life, if you will, you know, what kind of tips do you have for them to kind of shift that mindset?

>> Corinne Auman:

So I'd say the number one thing I would advise somebody to do is look at the older people around you or on television, whoever it is, and find your mentors, find the people that you can look at and go, that's the kind of experience I want to have. So, for example, my client, who's 96 and flirting with, the male Nurses at the hospital. Like, I can look at her and say, that is who I want to be. Right. I want to have that kind of positive attitude. I want to have that kind of experience even in the face of something not so great. But whoever those people are around you, you know, look for them and figure out what kind of things they've done and what kind of experience they're having and think about what you need to do to make that happen for yourself.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It's funny. We're always learning. Even when you get to that fourth quarter of life, you still need to learn from others who have been theresolutely.

>> Corinne Auman:

Yes.

>> Wes Cuprill:

The journey's not over until it's over.

>> Corinne Auman:

That's right. That's right.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah. Now, a lot of. So we're just talking about those who are entering. Sorry, I know I keep saying the fourth quarter. If you've got a better term for it, by all means. But, it's what my dad uses, so it kind of just stuck with me. But a lot of it, I think is applicable to those who are supporting those who are aging. So whether that is for me as an advisor, but I think family members are probably the biggest, component of that. What advice do you have for them in terms of supporting somebody who is aging, moving into retirement, and trying to find their purpose, if you will?

>> Corinne Auman:

Yeah. You know, one of the things I think is really interesting right now, we are living longer than we've ever done before. And so you have extra decades of life that previous generations did not have. And so, you know, your experience today as a 65 year old or a 75 year old is quite different than it would have been, you know, 50 years ago or 100 years ago.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It didn't live that long back then.

>> Corinne Auman:

You didn't live that long. And your quality of life probably wasn't nearly as good. M. So you've got these extra decades of time. And the thing that people struggle with as they transition into this is that we don't have a great roadmap or context for people for what they should be doing. Because this is new, actually. This is not. You know, when Social Security was first enacted in the 1930s, the average American lifespan was 67. Right.

>> Wes Cuprill:

You weren't meant to collect.

>> Corinne Auman:

You weren't meant to collect for a couple of decades. And that is what is happening now. And in a lot of ways that's a good thing.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Right.

>> Corinne Auman:

We're living so much longer. But that, you know, this idea that you retire. Well, we were planning on you retiring at 65 and living a couple of years, then it being done well, then this idea of retire and relax for a couple of years before it's over, that makes good sense. But today, if you retired at 65 again, you're looking at a couple of decades ahead of you. That relaxation or playing golf or traveling will be fun for a couple of years. and there's research on this that people kind of go through a honeymoon period, a transition, where it is really fun. People are happy to not be working 40 hours a week. Who wouldn't be?

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah.

>> Corinne Auman:

But then after that transition, many people struggle with, what do I do now? Right. Like, how do I manage my time? What's going to make me want to get out of bed? I, only want to play so much golf. And so figuring out what your purpose is, what's going to make your life meaningful, that is the thing that I see people struggle with the most. And that's the thing that maybe your family can help with. Right. In terms of helping people figure out what is their passion going to be now. And it can be anything. I've seen people go back to work. I've seen people start new businesses. you know, that entrepreneurship journey they always wanted to have but didn't get to before. I think people volunteer, they careg. They careg for their grandkids. There's a million things you can do. But figuring that out is the thing that people often need the most help with early on in these sort of teenager years, because they're still healthy and active and want to be doing things, but they don't quite know where they fit in because we haven't set up a structure for them to navigate through this, that, that we as a society are still operating on the, oh, well, you retired now, go off and have fun, and we don't really need you anymore.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah.

>> Corinne Auman:

But a couple of decades is a long time to feel like nobody needs you anymore.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah. I mean, it's 25% of a person's life at this point.

>> Corinne Auman:

Yeah.

>> Wes Cuprill:

I just lost the question that I was going to ask on top of that. so this is kind of a thing you need to plan for even before retirement that it sounds like.

>> Corinne Auman:

Yes. If you're smart. Yes.

>> Wes Cuprill:

you know, kind of. How does that, how can an advisor help with that?

>> Corinne Auman:

Like a financial advisor?

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah.

>> Corinne Auman:

Actually, I have partnered with several, over the years to, you know, do presentations and different things and getting people to think about not only the financial piece of it, which is very important. Right. Nobody wants to run out of money. Nobody wants to, be in financial straights in their retirement years. but then also getting people to say what is your emotional life going to be like? What is your social life going to be like? So we're going to have money, but then what are we going to do that makes us want to get out of bed on a Wednesday morning? So really trying to get people to look at a more complete picture of what those retirement years may look like. And then also planning for if I do need care, which seven out of 10 people will need some form of long term care at some point, what is that going to look like? And having honest conversations about, okay, I want to stay at home. 90% of people say they want to stay at home. Great. Having honest conversations about is your home senior friendly? Do we need to budget for home modifications that will need to be made so that you can stay in that house? if it's not, what are we thinking about in terms of downsizing or moving to a retirement community? What do those things cost? You know, and kind of budgeting that out long term is essential. You know, again, we all hope we're not going to need it, but boy, if we've planned for it appropriately when we do need it, that's going to be a gods send.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Statistics are hard to beat. So as much as we don't want to need it, most of us are going to need it. Yeah, all right, pivoting a little bit then. Long term care, very loaded question, but what are your thoughts on kind of.

>> Corinne Auman:

The whole thing, you know, so I'm assuming you're asking about the actual communities, not like long term care policies and things like that?

>> Wes Cuprill:

Necessary long term care policies. I, I'm not trying to go into that in too much detail, that'll sound like a sales pitch, but kind of the status of long term care, the communities and kind of considerations that people need to have, when looking. Because I mean I've heard great things, I've heard some not so great things. Yeah, we'love your thoughts.

>> Corinne Auman:

Communities are going to vary on a spectrum, just like you said. Some of them are going to be fantastic and some of them are not going to be fantastic. And so you. One of the things I talk to people about if I get them when they're in the planning stages, is let's go take some tours of communities now early on so that you get a sense of what they're like, particularly if they're interested in like the big continuing care retirement communities. So these are communities that have all the different levels of care in one community, one campus basically, and they have large buy in fees so we have to be planning for that financially. But they also, you know, they all have their own personalities, they all have their own amenities. So in my area, one of them has a golf course and the other, you know, everybody's got swimming pool and different sorts of things going on. Well, if that's the direction we think we want to go, let's start looking now so we figure out which ones we like. Let's get on their waiting list because currently right now there are multi year waiting lists at a lot of these communities because the demand is higher. We've got the baby boomers aging into this right now and so the demand is pretty high. they're building, but we still aren't going to have quote enough.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It's a whole housing issue that we could go into for an hour.

>> Corinne Auman:

So that's, you know, let's look so that you can get on their list and then you can move in when you're ready. I get way too many people who call me and say, well, I'm ready to move and they haven't even gotten on the waiting list. And that's, you're looking at a couple of years before you're probably going to get in. So I'm planning ahead, looking at the communities. I'm not waiting until it's a crisis because ah, a lot of the phone calls I get are people who haven't done any of that. And now mom or dad is in the hospital, they're going to have to come out and maybe go to rehab. But then we're looking at assisted living or memory care and the families have no idea. They don't know where the communities are, they don't know how much they cost, they don't know quality of care. And so that's the kind of stuff that you can actually do your homework on ahead of time so that you know what you're going to need in terms of money and where you want to go.

>> Wes Cuprill:

This episode of the Wealthwise Women podcast is brought to you by Money and Clarity. Wall street likes to make personal finance and investing complicated, but we are here. To tell you that it is. But saving and investing for your future can bring with it stress, emotions and uncertainty as well as many questions like how much do I need to have saved for retirement? What happens if the market declines? And probably the most important question of all, will I be okay? That's where we come in. Not only can we help simplify the financial planning process. We can also help guide you through all the emotions and uncertainty that come with planning for your future. So give us a call today at 513-563-7526 or go to visitwithmc.com to schedule a free no obligation consultation. We'll discuss how we might be able to help you achieve your financial goals and provide you peace of mind, knowing that you will be okay.

>> Corinne Auman:

I always tell older adults, I'm like, if I'm doing a, presentation with a financial advisor and they've got older adult clients, I always tell them that they have to look at this as an empowerment situation. The best way to get what you want from your older adulthood is to tell people what you want. Right. Like talk to your kids, go do the tours, have the conversation. Because if you don't, your loved ones are going to end up making decisions for you in a crisis when they are upset and it's going to be really stressful and you may not end up in the situation you wanted to end up in.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah, there'll be animosity because they're like, why did mom and dad put me in this situation in the first placemm?

>> Corinne Auman:

There is some of that too. Although I will say I've done some great planning sessions with adult children because they have gone through this with their parents and they see that this did not go well and so then they are highly motivated to do the planning for themselves. And that's nice.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It is, absolutely. And you know, you wish that wasn't the case ultimately that everybody had a good experience from the very beginning. what considerations do the adult children need to have, when helping? This may be a continuation of question earlier, but what do they need to consider when helping mom and dad with the long term care?

>> Corinne Auman:

So one of the biggest struggles I see adult children having is letting their parents make bad decisions. In the sense that if your parents are cognitively good. Then they have the right to make terrible decisions just like you and I have the right to make terrible decisions. So for example, if I decide that I want to go eat chocolate chip cookies for lunch today and nothing else, I have every right to do that and it's terrible for me, but nobody can stop me. Right?

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah.

>> Corinne Auman:

if your parents are cognitively intact and want to do whatever it is they want to do, eat chocolate chip cookies for lunch, live at home when it's not safe, all those kinds of things they have the right to do that you can't stop them, you can Talk to them. You can tell them it's not safe. There's lots of things you can do, but ultimately it's on them. And I see a lot of adult children really struggle with that because they want to keep their parents safe, they want to do the right thing and protect them. And yet their parent is saying, I don't need your help, I don't want your help. I've had mothers, excuse me, I've had a mother say to her adult child, if I fall down the stairs and die at the bottom of the stairs in this house, then I'm fine with that. I want to be in this house. And that's really hard for an adult child to hear because you don't want to have that happen. And you know, you don't want to be the person who finds them. Right. That could be a terrible situation. But that mom was so adamant that, that staying in that house was what she wanted no matter what. And so we really had to come to terms with, she's allowed to make this decision. There's nothing that says she can't make this decision. We don't like it, it's not safe. But she's a grown up and she gets to make that choice. And so that's the thing I think adult children need to remember and slash come to terms with.

>> Wes Cuprill:

You have to take the emotion out of it. It sounds like yeaht. It's like investing. There's a lot of emotion involved with it, that can make those decisions difficult. Is that the value then of having a third party, of help mediate?

>> Corinne Auman:

Yeah, it absolutely is. So sometimes, and I always tell adult children, ah, an unwritten rule that if somebody changed your diaper as a baby, then they don't have to listen to you as a grown up. so sometimes a care manager can come in and have a discussion that you may have already had. I might come in and say the exact same things that you said, but somehow because I am not their baby, then they will listen to me in a way that they don't listen to family members. And that can be very frustrating. But also, I mean, again, I think it's just a rule. You don'tly.

>> Wes Cuprill:

We all do it.

>> Corinne Auman:

You're adult children.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Absolutely. going back to kind of the crisis situation. I know, you were speaking to the fact that a lot of what you do is unfortunately, crisis situations, people who didn't plan. What are some of the immediate steps then? If somebody hasn't planned, they do find themselves in this crisis. what are some Things then that they need to do right away to kind of help manage set crisis.

>> Corinne Auman:

Manage the crisis. I think getting professional advice from someone like a care manager who can help guide you through the situation. essentially because you don't know what you don't know about what will Medicare pay for, what kind of assistance might we qualify for? you know, how do we find the right fit community? All those sorts of questions that people have in that moment and don't know how to find the answers for. If you find a professional like, a care manager, you can get those questions answered quickly and effectively. You might can do all the research on your own, but you'll make mistakes and it'll take you a lot longer. And so getting someone who's on your side and doesn't have an agenda about what decisions you make, really important. And you know, that's the thing I always tell families, like, it makes no difference to me what you do. I'm here to help guide you through, to try to help you get accomplished whatever you want to accomplish, if it's feasible. And sometimes I am the bearer of bad news in the sense that, well, you say you'd like to move to that community, but it's just not in your budget and, you know, that kind of thing. But that's the power of getting professional advice to help guide you through the moment.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yeah, we can be, agnostic. The whole thing kind of remove the emotion. So. Makes sense. what are some. Just kind of going back to a general topic here. What are some of the common mistakes you see people making as they get older? This can be anything, personal, professional, financial. what are some common pitfalls that people should be aware of?

>> Corinne Auman:

So some things people do, again, not just not talking to their loved ones about what they want. you know, people will say, oh, my kids know what I want. Really? Have you talked to them? that sort of thing. Also not planning for care, having that sort of burying their head in the sand and assuming that they're not going to need it. And so they haven't planned financially for care, just in general kind of. And I think this is our own ageism, right? Like, because we live in a society that we're not supposed to age. Don't talk about aging. You tell everybody you're younger than you are, and kind of pretend it's not happening. And that is really a detriment to everybody.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Nobody wins in that situation.

>> Corinne Auman:

Nobody wins. And really, again, we're getting extra decades of life that previous generations didn't get that's a gift. We should, you shouldn't be embarrassed about it. We should be planning for it. We should be trying to get the most out of it that we possibly can. but instead we just kind of, you know, I won'I'm. Not going to tell you my age or, you know, I'm going to pretend that I'm 10 years younger than I am and it doesn't serve anybody.

>> Wes Cuprill:

No, no. Actually can be detrimental to your own health when you do that.

>> Corinne Auman:

The other mistake that I see people make sometimes is trying to do Medicaid planning. so this is where you work with an attorney and you try to put everything into trust or into some sort of, sort of protective device so that you can qualify for Medicaid to pay for your care. And Medicaid qualifications vary from state to state.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Yes, yeah, but I understand the general sense of it and yeah, it's a common question.

>> Corinne Auman:

What people will do is they'll kind of put everything into that to try to protect it and then they'll be going to qualify for Medicaid to pay for care. And when I get that phone call, I really wish they had gone and done some tours of some Medicaid facilities before they did all that because you're probably not going to be a big fan of the communities that are now available to you. If you're going to go in the door using Medicaid, you're going to have a lot more options. If you are going in the door with some private pay money, even if it's just for a couple of months or a year, you're going to get m many more options than if you're just trying to use Medicaid to pay for care. And I understand the motivation. I mean people are trying to like, it's very important I think, particularly for our older adults in this generation to pass on an inheritance to kids, that's a big, to them and I get it. But at the same time, let, let me take you to see some buildings that you're going to be in before you do that. That, that's the really essential thing because people sometimes regret that decision.

>> Wes Cuprill:

those are the bad stories I alluded to. Yeah, you tend to hear. I mean ultimately it is what you get, what you pay for.

>> Corinne Auman:

It is.

>> Wes Cuprill:

It'interesting to hear you talk about those strategies because I'm not a fan of them personally. The Medicaid asset protection trusts and all of that. we have clients who say, oh, I heard about this or that I'm like, all right, well you need to consider the source of those who are pushing that ultimately. And let's talk about this from a more in depth plan than just putting everything away. Because you also need to be close with your family too if you're going to give them full access to all the assets right away. There's been some bad stories of people who, they need their family members essentially to gift it to them, their assets as they get older because they put it in that trust. But that could cause some issues all. Ah, right. Going more towards a brighter topic, what are some of the success stor you talked earlier about your 96 year old client? so I think that's a bit of a success story. But what are some success stories that you can share, with listeners about aging successfully, and how they had a good fulfilling retirement?

>> Corinne Auman:

Well so, actually in my book there are many people that I interviewed who are what I would consider success stories in retirement. And so they are teenagers and we should all be teenagers in training, because they are keen to keep active, to keep doing stuff, to keep contributing to society and being purposeful in their lives. And so that I'll give one example. There's a woman I interview in the book. Her name is Frances Hall. She is the founder of acap which is Adult Children of Aging Parents. And she is now herself a retiree. And she started this. this is, they're like support groups where you can get information about how do you support your aging parent. And she started it because her, she went through this with her own mom. Right. And then she realized, okay, there's all these other people who probably need this same kind of support. So in herote retirement she is running a multi state, multi chapter nonofit that is continuing to grow. so she's created herself a full time job in retirement. But people like that, I have lots of interviews in the book who again kind of our mentors to the rest of us to say it can be a time when you slow down and don't do much. But it can also be a time where you kind of reinvent yourself into, you know, whatever you want to be. It's a real opportunity that you know, again previous generations haven't had.

>> Wes Cuprill:

They're the trailblazers, these folks who are aging now.

>> Corinne Auman:

well, you know, the other thing I think you'll see sometimes on the news like an interview with a senior citizen and they'll portray it like that individual is some sort of super senior. Right. Like they're an anomaly in some way. And I think my point is actually they're not that this is really much more common than our stereotypes would allow us to believe. And so that's the kind of change in thinking I want people to get to in the sense that being a, quote, super senior is not for just the select few. It's for the vast majority of people if they plan and prepare and take care of themselves. I mean, you can have these extra decades where it can be a really productive and fun time.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Absolutely. Just got to start planning for it now.

>> Corinne Auman:

M

>> Wes Cuprill:

So how do we find your book?

>> Corinne Auman:

so the book is available on Amazon. You can also request it at your local bookstore. they can order it as well. you can find it on my website, which is just my name, corinallond.com. so it's available lots of different places.

>> Wes Cuprill:

Perfect. And I will be putting the links to that in, the description of, this episode. Corinne, I greatly appreciate your time today. If you'd like to meet with me to discuss how we might be able to help you as it relates to planning for long term care planning when it comes to aging or just overall retirement planning, please don't hesitate to go to visitwith mc.com. i also wanted to make you aware of a brand new newsletter that we have started offering. It is called the Wealth Wise Women Letter. It is a new bi weekly publication where I'll be writing on various things in the world of personal finance and how they impact women in particular. This is a free newsletter so all you have to do is enter your email and you will get it every other week. Simply go to m m. That is m m as in money, see as in clarity. Wealthwiseletter.substack.com. i will also have a link to it in the description too, this episode. So all that being said, I hope you enjoyed this week's episode and I'll see you in the next one. Thank you.

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Wes Cuprill

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