Pharmacy to Family Legacy

Ever wondered if chasing "shiny objects" in business could actually build real freedom, or if it's just a trap for the restless?

We sit down with a Louisiana pharmacist who's turned his stable career into a launchpad for real estate flips, Airbnb hustles, and now a laundromat empire—complete with wash-and-fold deliveries and vending side gigs. It's not the glamorous path, but it's raw, hands-on, and full of hard-won lessons from someone who's sweated through renovations, scrubbed football jerseys on weekends, and pivoted when the numbers stopped adding up. We're sharing this because we've all felt that pull to branch out, but what if the key isn't scaling fast—it's learning slow, staying grounded, and prioritizing time with family over endless growth?

This guy's story hits home: He built financial security first with a doctorate that lets him work just three 12-hour shifts a week, freeing up four days to experiment without catastrophe. No gurus here—just real talk on why real estate margins tanked post-hurricanes (hello, skyrocketing insurance), how laundromats beat rentals for long-term cash flow (one spot could net what 10 houses do once paid off), and the myth of "passive" income. Nothing's truly hands-off, but outsourcing what you hate? That's where freedom lives. We get into the grit: dumping coins for that satisfying clink, testing stain removers on comforters people forget to wash, and using DoorDash for pickups until you scale to your own driver. It's about maximizing earning power now, so you can make memories in your 40s—not wait for some distant retirement.

And yeah, we're calling out the education trap: Skip the fluffy college degrees unless it's specialized like pharmacy. Podcasts, audiobooks, and cheap books got him farther than six figures in tuition. But when stakes rise, invest in mentors who scale without losing your soul. His take on "Die with Zero"? Freedom isn't escaping work—it's ditching the W-2 grind to hike with your kid or book that spontaneous Airbnb, because life's too short for two weeks of vacation a year.

📌 Key Topics:

✅ From pharmacy stability to real estate risks: Using the BRRRR method and 70% rule to flip without going broke.

✅ Why laundromats crush rentals: Higher margins, fewer headaches, and add-ons like wash-fold that turn service into revenue.

✅ Busting passive income myths: Everything takes work—hiring attendants, battling "shiny object syndrome," and pivoting when fun fades.

✅ Education that pays: Free podcasts over pricey college, plus when to splurge on courses for real scaling.

✅ True freedom redefined: Build businesses for time with family, tax perks, and memories now—not just a fat nest egg later.

What if your next pivot isn't about more money, but reclaiming the hours you actually want to live? Tune in and rethink your own path.

Chapters: 

00:00 From Pharmacy to Real Estate: A Unique Journey

07:04 The Importance of Education in Real Estate Investing

13:51 Exploring the Laundromat Business Model

21:11 Innovative Marketing Strategies for a New Business

30:05 The Value of Entrepreneurship and Education

33:44 Scaling the Business: A Personal Journey

36:01 Education vs. Experience: The Value of Learning

39:41 Real Estate vs. Laundromats: A Shift in Focus

43:49 Understanding Returns: The Numbers Behind Laundromats

48:16 Navigating Debt: Good vs. Bad Debt

52:11 Marketing Strategies: Building a Brand in Small Towns

56:49 Family Legacy: Involving the Next Generation

01:00:41 Defining Freedom: Balancing Work and Life

Transcript

Ryan Miller (00:00)

Appreciate you joining us. You're our first guest from Louisiana. I've known you for far too long. So we go back to elementary school together. But ⁓ I want to get you on and walk through your journey. have a different journey. You start off in business ⁓ doing stock sales and stuff like that and ⁓ stocks bonds stuff like that. I'd be a little more clear. But when got your

doctorate in pharmacy. So now you're legal to sell drugs and now you're getting out of that kind of going more, you did real estate and now going more business. So kind of wanted to get you on and talk about your transition there, learning and growing and kind of your maturation there as a business owner. So kind of just kick us off, tell us a little bit about your story, I guess, and how you got here. All right. I appreciate y'all having me.

⁓ yeah, like he said, I straight out of high school to college. went to pharmacy school, didn't quite make the grades, played around a little too much. So went back to my hometown, got a business degree as a young guy thinks you're going to make a million dollars because you went to college. ⁓ got out, got a job with the company I was working for, a local bank.

made about 20 grand a year, so I moved back in with my parents and I decided to go back to pharmacy school. And with the maturity, I was 25 when I went back. So it was honestly a lot easier. mean, pharmacy school is not easy, but a lot easier at 25 than it is at 18. Finished that up.

Been a pharmacist since 2010. Great job. lot of giving me a lot of opportunities. ⁓ Then I went, started doing real estate. I think it right at the beginning of COVID in 2020, or ⁓ right before it started. And been doing it ever since. Houses, flips. I have a Airbnb now.

I have a laundromat, so kind of all over the place. What drove you to real estate? How'd you get there? man, it's hard to pinpoint exactly when.

What I wanted, why, don't know, I'm stumbling over my words here, but the, it's always intrigued me. You hear a lot of people, oh, you made a lot of money on a flip or a lot of people have real estate in there. I mean, most of them are well-to-do in their retirement age. So I wanted to give it a shot. We had the means to do it, so I bought a

super cheap house in rain that town that I grew up in and pretty much renovated it 70 % myself a lot of hours a lot of hours I did have a hill but I don't know how to do sheetrock and all that but did that house learn the hell of a lot and been doing it ever since it's it's actually pretty fun why

So one thing to add, your wife's also a pharmacist. You met her in pharmacy school. it's not like y'all aren't making good money. Why take the risk of flipping houses and doing 70 % of it yourself? Yeah, well, the first one wasn't a flip. I read The Burr Method. I don't know if you ever heard of that book.

Hell, that's been five years. Sorry, I forget who even wrote it now. ⁓ Great book, great strategy to get into real estate with. ⁓ So I did that and it worked out. I I made money on the refinance. Everything was good. The main reason I did most of it myself was to learn. You know, I did not do anything. I didn't know how to do electrical. did not. So.

A lot of sweat, a lot of equity. ⁓ We had a young child at the time, but we, mean, again, I had plenty of time to go and do it in the evenings, but it was seven days a week. I knew after that first one that wasn't the way to do it, but it taught me the cost of materials. It taught me how to hire people, how they show up, things like that.

I just learned wealth and knowledge doing it myself.

And so when you when you first bought that that first one, was it before you read the book or in the process of? No, ⁓ I'm pretty spontaneous, but I do quite a bit of research before. So I had been listening to Bigger Pockets. I'd been doing podcasts. read a couple of books, a lot of motivational stuff like Gary Vandertseck and Mike McCallowitz. And I read the book and well,

Let me say, I don't read anything. listen to everything. If it's not an audio book, I'm never, it's sad. I have a doctorate and I can barely read. That's the, uh, the joke in my house. Um, it's funny because I think it's the reason you're not a thing. maybe I did, uh, I did plenty of research before I jumped in, but after that, I mean, I'm pretty spontaneous. If I want a house, I put a bid on it and

I roll with it and figure it out later. That's awesome. And I think it's important to know that there was some time that went into the front end and people often don't feel like they're investors until they've finished and sold their first flip or they've rented out their first property. But I think that becoming an investor starts at the education where there's a lot of unknowns in this industry and even the terminology alone can

lead people taking a heavy financial loss. So taking the time to do that research, I think is important. But after getting that first one done, you said it gave you the confidence to continue moving on doing more. Is there ever a time that you wish you got into it faster or do you think you the right amount of time? No, I think I took the right amount of time. For one, I built financial stability with Formacy first.

Um, so even if I did take a loss of some kind, it wouldn't have been catastrophic. You know, it wouldn't have ruined my life. So the, I'm a big numbers guy. So the numbers don't work. Then, then you don't do it. So I think a lot of these people that fail on the first one, um, like you said, they don't do the research. They don't, they are, hear one podcast and like, Oh, that sounds easy. Let's go do that.

But there's a lot of variables that go into that. I mean, I bet I listened to a hundred episodes of Bigger Pockets before I even bought the first house and Louisiana I bought that house for $40,000 ⁓ So it wasn't like a devastating Now I'll put probably a hundred thousand into it, but it wasn't a a huge financial decision in the beginning

But, ⁓ but I did learn a lot and I see how you can lose, but also see how it's very hard to lose if you're educated. And then I think it's really important to do it that way. And I like that you emphasize, you know, how much education went into the front end. Cause I mean, I was very similar. It took me two years of just learning before making my first offer. But when you say the numbers have to work, that's something that's

Easy to say in a vague sense, but I think if you can dive a little bit deeper into what it means for a deal to work for you, because what I'm hearing is that $40,000 house was enough risk where it's not going to bankrupt you if it doesn't go well, but enough to where there's some meat on the bone. Yeah, for sure. So I use the 70 % rule by the house.

and take the cost of the house and plus the renovation costs and then look at the ARV or after ⁓ repair value what I'm going to sell it for take 70 % of that and if you purchase price plus your renovations aren't in that 70 % then you then you move on you know you don't put a motion into it you don't if ⁓

If it's not, and you have to have strong comps. You need a team. Uh, you need real estate agents. need, you need help. Don't do it by yourself for sure. Reach out to someone that can get you that reasonable ARV. Absolutely. One of the best jokes that I used to use when I was talking to people and especially 2021, 2022, when the market was still pretty hot, there was tons of,

competitive offers and stuff. People would run the numbers. I'd spend time teaching them how to look at the deal. And I'm a broker, real estate broker. So, you know, I've done this quite a few times and they would come in with a really strong offer cash, you know, inspections, like what, you know, you name it. And they would be confused when they got beat out and people overpay by 40, 50,000, you know, how, how can they make their numbers work?

I'd always remind them there's always someone who's willing to lose more money than you. And that's what it comes down to is it's a risk adjusted return. And if you're looking at it and the 70 % rule, that's a lot of meat in our market. Now I can't find any deals that meet that. So I have to adjust my expectations, which means someone else is also adjusting their expectations. And whereas I would do this deal if I made 10,000, they're like, I'll do it if I make a thousand.

So it's hard to, you know, when you lose out on deals, not to beat yourself up on that, but it sounds like after that first one went pretty well, gave you the confidence to continue doing more. So what changed in the market that made you start moving into laundromat?

The market here in Louisiana, the hurricanes pretty much devastated the real estate market. I'm not wiping out homes. It's just the insurance rates now are so high that the margins still making money. But you take a house that you planned five years ago is making, let's say, 200 a month. Well, that's now like 60 bucks, maybe.

You know, and I mean, it's still a good play. Don't get me wrong. If you're even breaking even, I think it's a good play to for real estate rent houses, but just realize it's not something you're going to quit your job over. ⁓ it's something for the future. If you don't like the stock market, I'm not a huge fan of.

putting all my money in the 401ks and stock markets and things like that. So this is kind of my stock market. ⁓ And I'm just realizing I'm not as patient as I thought it was. ⁓ So ⁓ I listen to more more podcasts. I mean, I never stop educating myself ⁓ while you're in the car, while I'm in the car. I'm always listening to podcasts and books and things like that. And they talked about laundromats.

So it's kind of, I don't know if I'm just ADD. I'm not ADD really, but it's like shiny object syndrome. I'm like, let's go take a look at that. You know, and, and I looked into it. The margins are really good. The, it's a totally different ⁓ animal. It's not as passive. Nothing's passive.

I'm going to throw that out there right now. If they say it's passive, nothing, unless you have, let's say a rent house for 140,000 and you buy the rent house cash, then it can be passive. But if you have a mortgage on it, you shop insurances, I mean, there's nothing passive about it. You know, I've been, I've been waiting for a laundromat owner to tell me that

They got into laundry matches because of how satisfying it is to fill up a five gallon bucket full of coins because that's my favorite part. We do coin off laundry in our properties and I just love dumping them out. It's something about that that satisfies my there's a guy on YouTube or Instagram or something like he created a whole business just around that one thing. I think it's on YouTube. It's like an ASMR kind of. Yeah. He just goes to all this laundry mats and just dumps it and shows them how much money he made and like making money off from YouTube.

Now, I know this is maybe going on YouTube, but take YouTube for entertainment value. He dumps a bunch of quarters then, but he doesn't tell you how much it costs to run those machines or how much it costs to buy those machines. ⁓ No, it's not. Same thing. If you have a bunch of cash and you can dump it in there, yeah, you'll do well. And I think you'll do better in a laundromat than

rent houses, but it, it's a job and it's something you have to continuously stay on. There's a lot more running pieces that can break and it's not just a bunch of money rolling in. You were talking a couple of weeks ago and you mentioned, so you got a contract with one of the schools to launder all their football jerseys and stuff. And you, don't know if it's part of your sales process or whatever. I don't remember exactly how this broke down, but you were telling me, I think it was like 20 grand if they had a bought.

⁓ commercial washer and dryers to laundry. Yeah, they looked at a commercial washer and dryer. They're all the same no matter what brand you go with. ⁓ The it was $25,000 for one washer one dryer. Now this is commercial you know they can wash I bet it was probably around a 60 60 pound machine which is basically taking six loads of clothes at your house and throwing it all in at one time. ⁓ Way faster.

But yeah, $25,000. I mean, we looked at it. It would probably take him at least 10 years to spend that with outsourcing it. ⁓ So I do it now. ⁓ And it's crazy because I'm doing it myself. I have to learn the business. So I'm a pharmacist that's washing people's clothes on the weekends and at night to learn the business. ⁓

what takes out stains the best. I'm scrubbing 90 jerseys on a Saturday night, you know? So passive, no, not so much. But it sounds like, I mean, I understand that that's the growth progression for laundromats, but you start off as the location that provides the machine so people can go do their own. But where the real value add is the wash and fold service, which is much more operationally heavy.

And it'd be very easy to just not do that and just continue collecting off the machines. But what you're doing is you're really creating a full operational business around it. And in order for that to be self-sufficient and somewhat passive, you got to learn the process in order to train someone else how to do it. have you given your or have you and your wife ever talked about what kind of timeframe you're giving yourself to learn the business before hiring someone? No, my, my wife's pretty much my

my best silent partner. She's sitting right there. ⁓ She doesn't care what I do as long as she doesn't have to do it. So she's a pharmacist. She does well. ⁓ She said, is my baby. She doesn't mind the extra income and what it's paying for, but she's not going to wash any clothes. She washes the clothes here. You don't do your own washing fold? No, I don't.

And my customers get way better folded laundry than I do. Not because my wife does it. Even if I do it, it's terrible. Yeah, I don't even fold my clothes. just throw it in the drawer. They're saying, I mean, washing fold is a way to grow your business. ⁓ It is way less passive, especially when you're starting. Say you have

One drop off, know, two drop offs a week. It's not going to be you started up and you get all these drop offs and it's an educational factor to a lot of people in Louisiana. I've never heard of this. ⁓ so yeah, when they drop off, I have to, I do it, you know, especially at the new location in Scott. ⁓ I have an employee in Opelousas that can do it, but, ⁓

I mean, in the beginning, it's all quality control, building a good name and, ⁓ and once it's rolling, yeah, I'm not washing clothes anymore. I was one thing that stood out to me. So you have a, or looking into a service Amazon or whatever Uber, whoever was go pick up the stuff at people's houses, bring it to you. You fold it, put it back in and then it brings it back. like that left door dash. Yeah.

I remember was door dash or whatever. The one that my POS integrates with. Yeah. But I didn't even, I was like, that's crazy. Like you literally, someone could just take their stuff, put it on their front porch. Uh, door dash picks it up, brings it to you. You wash, fold it, put it in however you do it and then send it back to them. And they got freshly folded clothes. In 24 hours. Yeah. It's a

It's a crazy concept and I'm trying to educate people and make it as affordable as possible. Because yeah, you use DoorDash and you don't have to pay an employee to drive there, drive back. You don't have the workman's comp, the liability, the vehicle. But it still costs you around $8 to get it there and $8 to get it back. So you have to factor that into.

how much they're giving you, how much you have to put in a minimum. So, I mean, it's a great thing. I think it's well worth it if you pay in someone $12, $15 an hour just to go pick up one order a day. No, that doesn't make any sense. So is that, would you eventually, so like we'll use Amazon as an example. They kept adding stuff and when they were doing the delivery, they

formed it out to the post office originally, but now they have their own Amazon delivery. Is that kind of part of your service that you want to end up building? it gets to a certain area, once it gets to a certain size, there's certain geographical areas within Lafayette that's going to use the service. So once say you get 20, 30 orders a day,

Probably half to 60 % are going to come from those same neighborhoods. So at that point, it makes sense to hire your own driver because it's not to cost $7 every single time, $7, $8 to bring it back to the facility. He can pick up 16 loads and bring it back to the facility. And the same thing when he drops them all, drop them all off at the same time. So it just makes more sense at that point to move to that for sure.

Is there any other revenue generating other than the wash and fold that you considered or you've tested?

Well, I opened my son a vending machine business within the laundromat. So kind of teaching him business. ⁓ We bought the two machines. He has to pay us back. ⁓ And then he's going to have to give some, spend some, save some. that, I mean, you're definitely not going to retire on vending machines unless you have a lot and they go, there's always a problem with them. But

Another, I mean, I'm looking into a bunch of different things. Stain removal is one. ⁓ I read a book on stain removal. That's how cool I am. And so like I'm testing it on all these jerseys and things like that. It's crazy how easy some stains are to remove and how hard some stains are to remove. ⁓

testing that blankets blankets are a huge market ⁓ blankets comforters ⁓ you can drop it off at my facility and have it done by us for twenty dollars you know ⁓ and it's crazy how long people go without washing their comforters just because it's you don't think about it and it doesn't fit in your washer and dryer

That's interesting. I wash your sheets every week, but no one ever washes their comforter. Their comforter. Yeah. You just as much as your sheets are. And you need that space in your washing machine. You can cram it in there, but it's not really cleaning it because there's no way for it to move around. So you need at least a 45 pound machine for a comforter. That way it gets the agitation and things like that to actually clean it. They can definitely tell the difference.

and stain removal and those kind of things. I'm doing that all for free now because I'm just learning. In the vending machines, are they just food and drinks vending machines or are they doing ⁓ laundry detergent and dryer sheets and stuff? No, it's just food and drink right now. I do need to buy a wall vending machine for dryer sheets and ⁓ powder liquid detergent.

⁓ But I have that attendant in there, so I let him sell ⁓ some things. And once you get into retail versus service, it's whole different animal too. You got to pay taxes and keep track of all that. So self-service is quite nice. You don't have to track it as much. Yeah, that's true. I've heard that it's a good revenue model, but honestly, I feel like it's so much more of a time commitment to keep up with just the...

vending machine side. I love, love that you're including your son in that. Yeah. yeah. How do you market this new service? I mean, like you said, it's not, it's not typical service that people use this day and age. Right. How do you, how are you marketing? How are you getting people to change their mindset around it? ⁓ I am a terrible marketer. I have a marketing degree in business. I know how to do it. I just can't execute it.

And the social media stuff, I guess I missed the boat on that. I'm 44. So I am garbage at social media advertising. ⁓ That's, I think the main way to do it is social media. ⁓ I'm trying. I throw my posts out there. They say there's an algorithm. I don't it's kind of like the cloud. I don't know what none of that is. But ⁓ I have

⁓ There's a local publication in Lafayette that the the major neighborhood that I'm focusing on, probably has four or 500 houses in it. I'm in their publication. ⁓ It's hard. mean, marketing, when you're starting a business, marketing is expensive, like really expensive. So you're trying to pay the electric and these machine notes and all this and then

They're like, hey, I'll do your Facebook for $600 a month. You're like, doesn't make any sense, you know, because it's hard to quantity how much business you're getting from that versus just word of mouth. But I do need to do more because word of mouth is not working. So I'm debating now if I'm going to do a per pound model where your clothes is $2 a pound delivered or a per bag.

which I think the per bag may be an easier concept to grasp. So I have a large laundry bag and you fill it up. I don't care if you pack it in there. You fill it up and it's let's say 40, $50 picked up at your house, folded and delivered back, you know, doesn't matter what's in there. I think that's an easier concept because I can tell you a load of towels. You don't know what a load of towels.

And you send your whole ⁓ laundry department or laundry loads to me like, God, I hope this doesn't come back at 120 bucks. know, whereas you put it in the bag, you know, you paying $40. So that's my, that's my, my next obstacle. Yeah. I got a, not that I dry clean a lot, you know, black shirts don't need a lot of dry cleaning, but, ⁓ I have a tie at the laundry place is called tide.

here locally and that I went to and that's what they do. You just, have a orange bag and I just put all my stuff in there and they based on how much, mean, I never buy the bag. I think so. Cause I've, I've seen by the bag we did a, it was Max Walker, Max L Walker, something like that. And we did it by the bag, but I got seven kids. And so we were like, we're paying. I don't remember what it was per bag. was maybe $20, $30 per bag per week.

and we get it picked up on like a Tuesday, we get it back on Friday. So, okay, that's four days without my clothes or I got to pay, I don't know, $300 just to get all the kids clothes done. So then I tried doing it, just my wife's and my clothes, cause I'm like, at least our stuff can get washed and folded. But then we realized we don't have enough clothes to go four days without them. know, so it was just a little bit of a logistical nightmare, but also they were at the, at the size and scale where

I saw their vans, they were piled to the ceiling just with different bags. I was like, it's a miracle that I even got my clothes back at the same ones that I dropped off. That's what surprises me the most is, and that's what would scare me the most is I don't wear expensive clothes, but say someone that does.

What does a bag cost, as far as volume of clothing? So you've got $2,000 worth of clothes in there. Now your guys lose it. And who's on the hook for the loss? $2,000 worth of... It could be a $2,000 suit, just one thing. I think it'd be hard to lose the bag. ⁓

But you could ruin clothes or yeah, drop it over the wrong house and never get it. that's a, I hope I get to that level and I have those problems. Right now it's hard to lose one bag and return one bag. But yeah, I think a four day turnaround is way too much. We just went to Disney and I was like, I'm going to use a wash dry fold so I don't have to wash anything.

And it was like a three day turnaround, which didn't make any sense to me. If it's not, I think 48 hours is the max. But I want to do everything in 24, 28, you so you get it back the next day. I think that makes a lot more sense and it's worth the money at that point. I mean, you get it back in four days. Like I work three days a week and I have three.

three workout fits. That's it. So they're all in the wash. I want to, you mentioned that you just went to Disney. I want to kind of unpack that. So you actually went to Orlando for a laundry conference and then, and then, and it turned that into a family ⁓ thing. I mean, we're, we're not financial advisors or CPAs or anything like that, but that is a

benefit of what you're doing. Like you had to go there or you didn't have to, but you know, wanted to go learn, learn how to get stains and all that stuff out of everything. And so you go there for a couple of days and then turn it into a trip with the wife and kid. for sure. And that's another benefit of being an entrepreneur. You know, you get certain tax benefits. ⁓ When you make decent money, mean, a pharmacist does have a good living.

⁓ You see how much taxes you're paying. an ⁓ entrepreneur can make the same amount of livable income, but without paying all the taxes, you can make a lot less and still do very well. You can write cars off and because I'm using everything for the business, cell phones, things like that. So, there's a lot of things run through the business and...

And that's just another benefit of being an entrepreneur. Yeah. You're paying with pre-tax dollars versus post-tax dollars as well. Exactly. That helps out a lot. One thing I want to talk about, and you mentioned it before we started recording, but is education and college, how expensive it is. You spent six figures in your, you know, between scholarships and...

all that stuff, but it was over six figures in your education. But then, I'll kind of pick on you for this, but, so now you go down this route and you only use free education. You only use YouTube University or books, you know what mean, books cost 20 bucks or whatever they cost, but you've never paid for coach, mentorship, anything like that. But yeah, you spent six figures on a college education. So one,

Would you recommend college for Carter, your son, and ⁓ why not pay for education when you were willing to get a college degree 25 years ago? Yeah, that's a good question. Let's see. ⁓

I push for, I don't think everyone should go to college. I think too many people go to college. ⁓ It's way too ordered down now. ⁓ I got a business degree and I have a degree in podcasts and the degree in podcasts are probably, I mean, you can learn what you need to learn and cut. There's a bunch of fluff in there that you're paying for. So no, don't, if Carter said I want to be a

general business major. was like, well, I'm not paying for that. ⁓ But if he wants to be a doctor or pharmacist specialized, yeah, for sure. I don't think you should be learning your law degree on a podcast. paying for education, I think I will at some point. ⁓

I try to do everything within the means of the company. Like I could dip into ⁓ my personal money and do education, but I'm trying to keep it within the means of the business because it's not my primary source of income. I think it was, if it was my primary source of income, yes. ⁓ Get the education, go find out from someone who is doing

Thousands of pounds of wash dry fold a day so you can scale relatively quickly ⁓ I I don't need a scale. I can take my time and

I know how to put this, it's... I don't know if I'm doing this to sell it later as like an investment or if it's something I want to do forever, you know? Pharmacy, I can do for a very long time. So, multiples in laundromats and wallstripes fold and things like that, it's around five. So, you build a great business, you sell it at a five times multiple.

Kind of my thinking now. ⁓ But I think if you're relying on this and your family needs to eat on this, yes, then even if you put it on a credit card, you know, I don't suggest you put everything on but they have plenty of interest free for 15 months, you know. If you can pay that back in 15 months to go get a $5,000, $6,000 course from someone that's doing it way better than you already.

Absolutely. But I mean, I have the time, the luxury of time just to figure it out now. And once it's overwhelming, then I think I'll go like the logistics. You were talking about losing bags and things like that. Once I lose that $2,000 bag, it may be time to go figure out how they're doing it and they're not losing anything. Yeah, that's a way I didn't.

I told you I was going pick on you. didn't tell you exactly which one, but we've talked about education because I kind of from the opposite, like I've spent probably more money than I care to admit to myself and definitely more money than I care to admit to my wife on education. But I also never spent six figures on college. mean, the government's always paid for mine. I mean, someone's paid for it, but, right. So it's kind of, I, I do find that,

I'm a big fan of education. I'm not a big fan of college. I guess I agree with that. But I what I'm hearing is the specialized degrees where you can maximize your earning capacity and your, your very, you know, exactly what you're going to be doing when you get out is where there's a good use for it, but just going generalized and having no goal, no intention behind it. That's a waste of money. And I agree that there's too many people like that, that

figure out what they want to do in their mid 20s and they already got this useless degree and now it's like, well, I guess I'm stuck here. But if you focus on maximizing earning capacity, which is what you've done by being the solo entrepreneur, you know, still doing the work is making the most amount of money you can during your, you know, able-bodied years so that someday you don't have to. But most, think people obsessed too much about starting with the end in mind and knowing exactly where I'm going to exit and I'm in a rush to maximize this value.

I got to hire on all the employees and everything's got to be passive. And I really liked that you're just kind of riding it out and learning as you go. There's no, there's no pressure behind it. But also I think that that's because that you took the time to get a specialized degree. All right. Not only that, but when he mentioned it, but I don't think it was highlighted enough. Not only, or do you have a specialized degree and you're doing pharmacy, but you've also maximized your time that you only work three 12 hour shifts a week.

And you can still from your phone, you know, help run the business from there. You're not as a pharmacist, you're not bogged down by that. can't help out there. So you have four other days that you're completely free a week to, to help out and help run the business. you've maximize your time as well. So. Yeah. And I can't just sit still. So that's why I'm kind of doing everything. I'm all four days a week and it's.

I mean, it's amazing. You can have so much more valuable time, but ⁓ I have those, those days where I can go to the rent houses and, just do it leisurely. You know, that's kind of, I spoke with you, I think it was off camera, but I'm looking at selling my rent houses now because a laundromat's a lot different than a rent house. So right now it's, it's becoming overwhelming.

and I have a job, have rent houses, and then I have the laundromat now. Well, I'm seeing that I like the laundromat more, so I'm going to liquidate the rent houses and try to build the laundromat industry. I mean, that's just a luxury I have, due to having a full-time job.

Yeah. So kind of speak to that why you said you don't like the stock market. I'm nice to real estate was kind of your stock market, but now you're, you're switching again. So you were selling stocks and bonds to not liking stocks and bonds. So investing in real estate. Now you're, you're pivoting again, kind of.

Where, what's kind of driving that? Is it just desire, I guess? ⁓ Like what you enjoy with your time or is it the financial return? it financial freedom? Is it teaching your son business? What's kind of driving a lot of that? Yeah, it's kind of just a mindset I have, ⁓ kind of my personality that ⁓ I'm always learning.

You know, so instead of the radio in the car and things like that, I'm either listening to a podcast or an audio book. ⁓ So instead of just sitting at home on the four days I have off, you know, it's kind of a way to learn a new craft or skill or ⁓ so I got into real estate. ⁓ I mean, it's it's fun at the same time as rewarding. ⁓

I mean, it's stressful at times too. ⁓ the, mean, it's not like I'm rich or anything like that. I have to, I live check to check on my rentals, but luckily not in my normal life, you know? And, and at that point it's just not fun anymore. So it's time to pivot ⁓ or figure out a way how to make more like Airbnb or ⁓

burnish finder or something like that within your rentals. And I've made mistakes throughout, you know, like I shouldn't have done certain things that put me in these situations. I should have taken it slower. ⁓ But I mean, hindsight's the best investor that's ever lived. So things like you mentioned, long term, had a sober living houses for a while. ⁓

Airbnb so you've tried out different furnishments and furnish finder so Yeah, pretty much tried everything in the in the real estate Area and I mean it you find what works for you and I think you maximize that it doesn't matter if it takes five years or or two minutes You know you found it in the first one, you know so

Is use word pivot you also talked earlier about shiny object syndrome do you do you have any kind of internal conflict of deciding whether something is a pivot that's intentional or you're chasing the next shiny object.

⁓ I think that's where hindsight comes in again. ⁓ yeah, like it's a great idea right now, but who knows what is going to be in six months? ⁓ hopefully it is. mean, I see the potential. Like I'm a numbers guy. You know, you see the potential of, let's say 20 rent houses versus two to three laundromats, you know, ⁓ what it's bringing in, what it's cost.

So your net income at the end of the day and how much 20 rent houses, how many problems can you have versus three buildings? The best rentals I have are the one, I bought four houses on one piece of property. And geographically, mean, that's why multifamily and things like that, most investors get into because they realize that 20 houses on 20...

20 different geographical locations even in the same town can be a headache. Absolutely. Yeah. And I always say this. I want to make the same amount of money with less properties. So that's kind of my goal there. See, I feel like rabbit in the hair or what the turtle in the hair is yours method is so slow and smooth and smooth as fast and mine is like

bouncing off the walls, making as many mistakes as I can until I figure out how to do it right. And I feel like somewhere in between us, there is an ideal scenario that they've got it all figured out. don't recommend either one of those. You mentioned a couple of times the returns on Laundromat. Can you unpack that as far as from just the numbers from a macro scale of things? So I don't.

I mean, I don't really know how much, I mean, I claim everything. hear all these, that's another thing. Everybody in the laundromat, I've tried to buy laundromats and they're like, I don't have books for the last 12 years. I'm like, Jesus. And okay, fine. If you don't get caught, whatever. But you can't have your cake and eat it too. So you can't say I'm making 10 grand a month.

but there's no way to tell you and I want five times a multiple on that. So you can have it all in the front end and then sell in the back end for nothing or claim it all and use the tax code in your advantage, which I plan on doing ⁓ and sell it at a high multiple in the future.

⁓ So, a greenhouse, let's say...

I made $100,000 rent house, rents out here for around let's say 600 a month. That's probably a two bedroom, one bath in the country. I have some that are doing a little better, let's say 800 a month. But after your mortgage, your insurance, let alone it's an adjustable mortgage because every

I five years you have to re-evaluate it because it's a business. I'm making probably nowadays 100, 150 a house per month. whereas the laundromat I'm bringing in now, the laundromat cost me around 400,000 and

Probably bringing in let's say 8,000 a month ⁓ The overhead is really high now Because the machines were I mean I have 12 washes and 12 dryers and you're looking at about $200,000 and then I was able to buy the property which was cheaper than the machines and

I'm sorry, I lost my train of thought there. I'm making, let's say, $1,000, $1,500 a month after expenses. But I don't even look at it in the now. Look at it in the... So $900 a month when the rent house is paid off, or $8,000 a month. This is gross. $8,000 a month when the laundromat's paid off.

I would need 10 rent houses to make the same amount as one laundromat. Now there is, and all the machines are in a warranty for five, 10 years, something like that. ⁓ Now when those machines go out, yeah, it's rough, but making a hundred bucks on a rent house and a stove goes out, you know, that's two months. The AC goes out, you just lost that seven, eight grand.

Like, it's almost impossible to regain that.

Yeah, that's the downside of real estate is...

when something goes wrong, I think everybody says, I'm making $200 a month, but then they are taken in those stoves or the, or the hail damage that you get from a storm. And now your insurance went up even more. mentioned people on the internet love gross. They love gross numbers. They, they don't tell you the net. They, they like the grand number. Like it's

It's all like people like, my God, you own 10 rent houses. It's not as awesome as you think it is. I heard some recently it was like gross is for the ego nets for the IRS. Exactly. Yeah. So are you planning on still investing in real estate? know like for me, I invest in business as the cashflow and business or real estate more as the ⁓

So I don't have to pay the IRS as much money, you know, as my, my 401k or my, ⁓ whatever. So is that kind of your play or what are you planning on doing there? Or are just planning on, ⁓ living on quarters the rest of your life? Well, I tell you what, my next laundry mat will not have a quarter exchanger. It's going to be straight cord. I'm not dealing with that anymore. ⁓ but the plan now is to sell the rentals.

I like flipping houses, like that's fun. I wouldn't mind flipping a couple houses in a while. Like I said, I mean, if I had one laundromat and I four days off a week and I have an attendant, I got to do something. So, and flipping houses, you're not dealing with tenants, you're not dealing with, and if you have the crew infrastructure there, it's pretty good. It's a fun little process.

Now you do pay a ton of taxes at the end, but it's a good way to pay off some bad debt as well. So the Electrolux, that's who I have, they'll finance you 100 % on these machines. Now the note is over $3,000 a month. So if I can get rid of some of this bad debt by flipping houses, ⁓ that's kind of the plan. Try to get as, as a

bad debt free as possible. break that down. Why is it bad debt to you? It's still an asset. Yeah, it's still an asset. It's just higher interest rates. So these eight, 9 % interest rates, which I think we're in a age where we've seen a 2 % and people are freaking out. But this is normal. You know, like this is the norm. The

that's bad debt. I have some debt in a home equity line of credit that I use for construction costs and things like that. I mean, that's a straight variable rate. ⁓ I consider that bad debt. So if you're investing on bad debt, I mean, I think you setting yourself up for failure, not not even failure more like you're going to break even, you know, you're not going to

see these gains like these people that are talking about. So take it slow. That's what I did. I did the Burr method and then I started buying assets with the line of credit. So I put down a down payment on these four houses. So instead of zero out of pocket, now I have this bad debt of 30,000 at 8 % interest. Then I did it again. So you have the good debt mixed in with the bad debt.

keep the good debt. I have interest rates of 4 % on these rent houses and things like why pay that off? But if you can get rid of that extra note of bad debt of five, 600 a month, I mean, you're just doing that much better. Yeah. I don't know if I go as far as call it bad debt personally, but I definitely think it's more risky debt. know, me and Valerie have talked about that and she's like, well, I don't

Why aren't you making any money off the business right now? I was like, because business is riskier than a rental house. A business can go to zero. A house isn't going to go to zero. You have insurance, you know, even if it burns down, you still get insurance. so like I said, I think it's riskier dead. Not, I don't, I wouldn't call it bad debt, but it's tomato, tomato at that point in time. Really? You know, it's a,

Business is way more risky than the world. Yeah, for sure. that's the laundromat. ⁓ Do your homework. If you put a laundromat in the nicest neighborhood in your town, you're going to make zero dollars. You're going to be in the low income areas. ⁓ It's amazing. I'm in the low income area of Opelousas, but the gratitude I get, you know, they're

And I used to nice things coming in and and I keep mine super nice and I hire an attendant. I'm not making any money hiring an attendant. I'm losing money, but it stays that safe place that I'm building a brand around. I was going to say the same thing about when you're talking marketing that I mean.

Well, if you're trying to build a big chain or big franchise, the laundromats and I get social media is probably necessary. But right now being the small, small town, you know, laundromat, the newspaper and you know, the, parks and gas stations flyers, stuff like that. They probably give you a little bit more leverage with the clientele that come to laundromats than doing social media campaigns. That's just my, my thoughts on it. Yeah. I don't know.

have to look up to get the exact numbers, but Lafayette population is probably 150,000 somewhere right around there. I'm not sure what. Opelous is probably 50,000 maybe out of not even know maybe. Yeah. 20, 25 would think somewhere around there. I don't know. I'd have to look them up, but yeah, you'd have better luck putting the flyer up at the local diner than you would do a TikTok dance. I think you're good. TikTok dances though. Yeah, for sure.

Please.

I don't know where I left off there. The doing something for the small town, I think is more beneficial. A lot of people talk, ⁓ sponsoring things because that's really not a big expense. Like a hundred bucks, you know, you can sponsor, get your name out there. ⁓

than doing the masses on Facebook. But Google is important to get those keywords out there, especially for Wallstripe Fold. They're going to find your laundromat and the same people that's using your laundromat are not the people that are going to use Wallstripe Fold. I mean, there's a small percentage, but it's two totally different demographic groups. That's just a way to build the business on both ends.

going back to the marketing thing, thought about partnering with businesses or, you know, you're talking about the area you're talking about, flyers and stuff like that, but those businesses inside there.

Well, right now, I don't know if this is what you mean, but yeah, that's why I say I have one and a half laundromats. ⁓ There's a laundromat in Lafayette that I talked to the owner ⁓ and I put some laundry lockers in there where you can drop off clothes. And I'm going to be running the pickup and delivery mainly out of that location. ⁓ Logistically, you need it within five to six miles.

for that door dash to even work because it's like 75 cents a mile after that. So you'd need a location that's within that geographic area that you want to serve. So I went talk to this guy. I'm going to use his machine. So he's making the money on everything on wash, dry, fold. And in the future, if it kicks off, then we'll talk about partnering. But

I mean, super low barrier to entry didn't cost me anything. And now I can test my concept. Nice. So from what I've heard about Louisiana, sounds like the next step to any business is just getting your liquor license. Laundry and liquor, definitely not the, I don't know if you've ever been to a laundromat. That's not what you want.

There was definitely some drink in Louisiana. ⁓

So you spent a lot of time on this. Talk about how you kind of bring your son into it. I know he's there with you at a lot of your flips and I assume. Oh yeah. that. What's he? It seems all these podcasts and books as well with you. No, no, he's 10 years old. He he takes my phone and turns Bluetooth off immediately.

So I don't get to listen to podcasts when he's in the car. ⁓ I mean, it's a legacy for him. ⁓ Mainly I have one child. this hopefully this is a legacy that he can take over. ⁓ So just so he doesn't have to work so hard. I mean, it's a hard world, whatever you want to say these days, but

⁓ I'm not going to give it to him. ⁓ I want him to learn the process. ⁓ but it's just something to look forward to, to say we spend a bunch of time together doing it. No, we used to, when we would tear down houses, I mean, he would love putting a hammer through a wall, you know, we would love doing that together, but it takes away a lot too. You're, you're not there a lot. ⁓

And a big aspect of what I do, I love spending time with family. So I make sure that on these days off, I'm starting in the morning and finishing work and pick them up from school. ⁓ So there's no more, I outsource pretty much everything now. I don't do the hammers and all that anymore. I learned what I needed to learn. Now I'm handing it off to someone.

way better than me. It took me eight months to do my first flip where the second one, I hired a guy, it was like three months, maybe, you know, so ⁓ the knowledge is worth everything. But at some point you got to give it to somebody that knows what they're doing. I definitely agree with that. I'm all about hiring out people. You and I were talking before and I think we both said like

I said it this way. You said it a little differently, but like my superpower is not being good at anything and knowing that I need to hire everything out. So it's a, yeah, it's definitely a good thing. So I, I think it's the only way you can scale. It was the, the proverb, uh, go fast alone, go far together. Something along those lines. Yeah. So there's a, I sat down with one of our investors the other day.

And he was talking to me about this book called quit, which is like the opposite of everything in the professional development space and all that stuff. And he's like, it's basically about knowing the right time to walk away from things. And I, the more I think about it, the more is that I'm just really good at that because when I'm renovating a property every time, like, you know, stub my toe on something or I'm chopping trees down and just.

Like this is the, tell my wife every time this is the last time you'll catch me chopping the trees. The last time you'll catch me raking leaves and yeah, but I do think it's important to do one time just so you know what goes into it. You know, when you're getting overcharged and you know, ⁓ all those different things, but I, I, ⁓ I'm not the one that wants to be the one sweating at my properties all the time. No second. Well, before we let you go, I just, guess it's kind of ended and, ⁓ ask what

is freedom to you. Like what do you, out of all of this, the legacy play, the financial play, the time, you all that stuff, what's kind of your guiding light, if you will, your freedom play.

Well, ⁓ right now, like I said, I'm always listening to something and the more education you get, it kind of changes. So I just started a book called a die with zero. within the last week, my, freedom has, ⁓ has changed. I have a lot of freedom now. Freedom to me is not working for someone else for money that.

That's basically my definition of freedom. But I have a job that's lenient and nice enough where I think I can work till I'm 85 years old. So after starting this book, I'm like on chapter four, but like it's sent me into a spin where it's like, okay, making memories is huge. And you have the money to make memories. So

let's make the memories now in your 40s because I can work as a pharmacist at 80. Yeah, I talked to all these financial advisors. They're like, you need $100,000 a month to retire. And I'm like, I just started thinking about it. I'm like, I can do that working three days a week. Well, especially in 20 years. So that's kind of my freedom now is

enjoy my 40s because it doesn't get any easier. 30s were more fun, 40s I can't imagine 60s, 70s finally having that financial freedom. And everybody says financial freedom, financial freedom, but like I said, there's nothing passive. So if you're doing that, those flips, but you have to be in there seven days a week, 12 hours a day.

To be financially free and not get a W-2, are you really free? ⁓ You're free from your boss and your W-2, but you're just working harder for your money. Even little things, I just wanna spend time with my son. My wife sent me a little Airbnb she wants to go to in October. I'm like, book it, you know? Let's stop worrying about, now I was a big Dave Ramsey fan. I believe in the,

emergency funds and things like that, because you can get yourself into a lot of trouble. But even if you can't go to Disney or go skiing in Aspen, you know, take 10 little trips, take your kids in the woods and go shoot BB guns, know, something. ⁓ Just enjoy life. think as Americans, we work too damn much ⁓ for the two weeks of ⁓ freedom ⁓ that we get. ⁓

That's my freedom is to finish this book. ⁓ may have to have a follow a podcast may change. ⁓ but that's my freedom is to enjoy the time I have while I can still move and hike and do things like that. And, ⁓ and then when I get old, I can just, I can still work. picked that. Now, if you're a brick layer, no, make as much money as you can now, but you can't do that at 70. ⁓

But yeah, that's my freedom right now. Yeah, I'd be interested to follow up with you and see what you think of the book. I like the beginning, the end, I think it takes a little too far personally, maybe it's to see your thoughts on it by time you get there. but yeah, I appreciate it. don't know if you got anything closing.

No, no, it's really interesting to hear your journey and kind of the path you're taking. It's not often that I talk to people who are very confident in being the work in the business and have no intention of scaling themselves out. So I really like that perspective and I appreciate you sharing it with us.

For sure, I appreciate it. Thank you.