The Hard Truth About Starting Over (And What We Did About It)

Freedom isn’t luck—it’s built on habits, truth, and the courage to change course.

In this episode, we get real about faith, sobriety, and the moment a “worst case” injury became God’s best redirect. We talk through how putting God first—Bible in the morning, church every week, first-fruits giving—reset our lives, our marriage, and our money. We unpack why we left the military grind, moved to a new market with a truck and a trailer, and later spent a year in Maui to force real systems that let business serve family—not the other way around.

We share what actually worked: the boundaries that keep temptation out, the community that keeps us accountable, and the operational choices that cut busywork and multiply results. We also press into a bigger definition of freedom: the financial margin to say what’s true, support what’s right, and be present with our kids—without asking permission.

📌 Key Topics:
 ✅ Faith-first rhythms that beat addiction and drift
 ✅ Turning a career-ending injury into a calling shift
 ✅ Building rentals, flipping smart, and buying with conviction
 ✅ Systems > heroics: how a year in Maui 10x’d our operations
 ✅ Taxes without the trap: cost segregation in plain English
 ✅ Hiring that sticks: the “do it once, done forever” standard
 ✅ Freedom to speak, give, and lead—without fear of the paycheck
 ✅ Serving veterans well: real community over faceless programs
 ✅ Family on purpose: shorter workdays, stronger marriages

If you’re ready to trade chaos for conviction and hustle for holy stewardship, hit follow, share this with a friend, and take the next right step today.

One question to carry this week: What habit will we put first tomorrow so freedom follows for years?

00:00 Webinars as a Sales Strategy

02:19 Finding Faith and Overcoming Adversity

07:35 The Impact of Injury on Career and Life

11:18 Lessons from the Military Applied to Business

13:10 Transitioning from California to Nebraska

17:03 Starting Real Estate Investing with Limited Resources

20:08 Navigating Financing Challenges in Real Estate

22:12 Evolving Market Conditions and Business Adaptation

23:45 Dividing Responsibilities in a Family Business

30:49 Moving to Hawaii: A New Chapter

34:22 Celebrating Success and Future Goals

37:11 Family First: Reconnecting in Paradise

41:35 Building Community: Life Lessons from Maui

45:01 Masterminds and Mentorship: The Power of Learning

55:51 Defining Freedom: Financial Independence and Personal Values

01:00:48 Supporting Veterans: Community and Compassion

Transcript

Jeff, welcome. I appreciate you joining me. Yeah. Playing solo today. So just you and I having a little conversation, but, I wanted to kind of start off about a year and a half or so ago, you and I were in Denver and you made a comment to me about, you not found God, you wouldn't be here today. And I know you had, um, you're in the military and then had a accident kind of led you out and had some trials and tribulations, whatever.

But the

religion got you out of that hard time. How did you, I guess, kind of just unpack that in general. I'll just leave it broad and kind of how did that help you?

Speaker 2 (02:31)

Well, mean, I guess, so I grew up in a Christian home and went to church and all that kind of stuff, but I never, I didn't have like a relationship. It was just kind of going through the motions. Our family went and we never really talked about it, like at the dinner table or it wasn't really like super ingrained. It was just like, this is what we do. go to church and my parents kind of just left our walk with God kind of.

up to the church and they weren't real involved with that, which wasn't a problem. But because of that, as soon as I left and military and all that, I just completely fell away and just started doing my own thing. ⁓ fast forward to after your multiple deployments and time in the Marine Corps and all that kind of stuff and the injury and everything like that, ⁓ I got to a point in my life where I was like at rock bottom. And at that point in time, Megan and I, my wife, ⁓

together decided we were going to quit drinking, quit and just get sober. No drugs, no drinking, no nothing. And get back to church and get our lives figured out. And when we did that, everything changed. we, I mean, it was, and without having done that, like we were just on a faster. Yeah. And I knew that, ⁓ and well, and as that,

Speaker 1 (03:53)

You were just on a-

Speaker 2 (04:00)

kind of grew over the years. ⁓ There was a lot of work that I was able to do with all of just the trauma and everything that I had gone through in my life that was just holding me back and keeping me stuck in the past and pain and making me do stupid things. ⁓ But getting back and plugged in with the church and really creating a relationship and getting our lives back on track like.

took me from a trajectory where I was gonna end up dead in the ditch somewhere probably to where we are today. So I have very addictive personality. So I needed to find something to really focus my energy on or is it gonna just keep going and you know, destructive. Yeah. So it's not to say like, I would have like, you know, killed myself or I would have, you know, inevitably died. just.

Speaker 1 (04:47)

find trouble somewhere.

Speaker 2 (04:56)

felt in my heart that if I didn't do something drastically different, I was just on a path to destruction and quickly, and I was almost at the bottom. So ⁓ yeah, that's what we did.

Speaker 1 (05:07)

How hard was it to plug into a church and to turn your life around?

Speaker 2 (05:10)

search.

Well, was, was challenging because we, was, I was still active duty in the Marine Corps at that time. And so everybody we knew was all heavy drinkers or partiers or whatever. We worked hard, we partied harder, you know, how it goes. And when we quit drinking, there was like, we had to cut out everybody we knew in our life. Like we couldn't hang out with them anymore. Cause all they ever did was drink. And so it's like, we couldn't even be like around them because we didn't have that, ⁓ you know, that strength yet to, you know, not.

given the temptation or anything like that. So we realized that we had to cut everybody out and then we went to our church. so at that point it was like, well, we're all in, let's do this a hundred percent. And I think we, we church hopped around for a little while and then we found a church that we liked. And when we found that one, happened to have been like the first Sunday of the year when we showed up at this new church. And the sermon was about putting God first in your

year, your day, your month, just putting them first and everything. And so that looked like putting them first in your day by reading the Bible in the morning, putting them first in your week by going to church every week, and the month by tithing and putting your first and best. then, you know, and then throughout the year, just all of those things is going to lead to an amazing year and growth with that. And so that's what we decided to do. just right at the beginning, we're like, okay, we're reading the Bible every morning. We're going to church every week.

or tithing, was scary because that was our biggest expense at that point. had a, ⁓ a roommate that we were splitting rent with at the time. our tithe, if we actually did 10 % of what we made was more than our, our housing. Yeah. So we're like, Ooh, like that's not easy, but we just wanted to trust God and do it. And we started doing it. And as soon as we started doing that, we were able to quit drinking after many attempts and we got

Speaker 1 (06:55)

in California too.

Speaker 2 (07:10)

sober after that. And then it was like, Oh my gosh, we have so much money. don't even know what to do with it. We were spending so much money on alcohol and party. Yeah. And so then, well, yeah, you know, we just didn't know it. Um, and so then we were able to save so much money that way that shortly after that we bought our first house and then we, you know, started, uh, I got injured and then my career was coming to an end as well. then

Speaker 1 (07:17)

your biggest expense.

You went to church first and then got injured second?

Speaker 2 (07:37)

Yep. Yeah, was pretty close to around the same time, but yeah.

Speaker 1 (07:42)

all, I mean, kind of going to the injury and how that changed. mean, that, cause you were going to make 20 years out of the military or you were already over 10 whenever you, whenever you got, so, ⁓ the injury obviously changed your, your military career and forced you out. kind of that's, that's pretty big mentally as well.

Speaker 2 (07:53)

Thank you.

Yeah, so what I thought was the worst thing ever ended up just being a blessing in disguise. So was really just God's hand at work. And it turned out to be the most amazing thing that could have ever happened, which is surprising to say. So I injured my back in the parachuting accident. I was not able to recover, so I got medically separated after a while. So it was a lengthy process on the medical board and that whole thing. So we knew that we had to look at.

what the future was going to be. And that's when we started kind of thinking about real estate and investing and kind of going off on our own. Cause I was unable to work. I couldn't stand for like more than 15 minutes without being in extreme pain, sitting hurt. I was just constant pain all the time. So lost my career, can't stand super depressed. Now I'm gaining weight and I'm just like, like it was terrible. was the worst thing ever. It created this huge like fission and

or my marriage with Megan because I went from this guy that's just, you know, hardcore pipe hitter, getting things done to like now I just, don't even know what to do with myself. And ⁓ so that was a very challenging time. And so without the church during that time, that's why I said like, I would have just gone into self-destruct mode. So yeah, so it took a few years of physical therapy.

chiropractic, acupuncture, know, everything, just doing all that stuff. And then I was finally able to like get back into the gym and I was able to like work out a little bit without hurting myself. And then I was starting to get back in better shape and start getting my just mojo back. then now I'm in the best shape in my life. I can run, I can do everything and my back's like a hundred percent fine. And I would have never anticipated that.

And what that injury did is it got me out of the Marines, which I wanted out. I just didn't have an exit strategy. ⁓ I was tired of the deployments. was, I wanted to do something else, but we were so busy with the training and the deployments and the workups and the whatever that it was like, and the reenlistment bonuses that

⁓ yeah, so, ⁓ there were, there are, when I was in, there was only three MOS is in the Marine Corps that got re-enlistment bonuses. And that was recon EOD and counter intelligence. ⁓ and recon specifically, we had multiple, not just your first enlistment, second, third, ⁓ and they were hefty and they were, they wanted to keep us in because we have a high attrition rate and they spent a lot of money training us. ⁓ and so the further along you go.

⁓ It would get less each each green list because you're kind of more bought in but it was still nice I think the first one I got was like 90,000 and it was like 70 something and then the third one would have been like In the 50s or something like that. You get money it's like what are you gonna do? You're get out and you don't have a plan I'm gonna go to college You don't know what you want to be when you grow up or you're just gonna take the money and do another four years and you're almost done. So

Speaker 1 (11:06)

Pretty good money for me.

Do you feel like you probably didn't realize it then, but do you feel like lot of lessons you learned in the military has helped you in business and life since then?

Speaker 2 (11:27)

Yeah, yeah. mean, and like everything, you know, just, just character and having pride in your work. mean, the biggest reason for our success, I believe, is just that we want to do what's right by people no matter what. I always be fair and to, I lost my train, it's not there. Where we going?

Speaker 1 (11:53)

You were just talking about the military and success and.

Speaker 2 (11:56)

Oh, and just having like pride in our work and just, and doing it right and having quality like properties for people that I can be proud to live in and things like that. And so we have this reputation of just like excellence, which is a part of, you know, bred in the military and just being organized and effective at, you know, leading, whether it's employees or contractors or whatever. so, um, all of that stuff has helped, you know, and being able to manage stress, you know,

Like our lot of what we do is very stressful and for me it's like well, it's not a big deal like I've been in very stressful situations and so When we're dealing with all these things that are going on that the normal person looks at it goes. Oh my gosh I don't know how you do it. Well, I've you know, I've been enough Situations where this is not stressful. It's like maybe a challenge or difficult, but it's not You know, no flight or fight response. So It makes that a little bit easier

Speaker 1 (12:51)

So you get out, you transition, mean, you get into real estate. You're in Southern California and then you end up in Omaha, Nebraska, or not Omaha, Lincoln, Nebraska. That's, that's, uh, you know, San Diego, Lincoln, you know, they're not exactly the.

Speaker 2 (13:10)

They're not no. So yes, I didn't have any ties to California. I was just stationed there. when I met my wife, so Megan's from California and when we were dating, I didn't think I was ever going to get her to leave. She just thought it was the greatest place ever. But now that she's seen more of the rest of the country, she's never going back. But when we were getting out, we already knew we were, we were giving it a go. We were already in it.

trying to get the real estate investing thing going. So we were figuring it all out and sending out postcards and trying to learn as much as we could in networking and meetups and everything. So we knew that that was the direction we wanted to go. But we couldn't afford to stay in California if I wasn't gonna get a job and we were just gonna go bet on ourselves and do this. So all we had to live off was my VA disability.

So that wasn't going to cut in California and it's super expensive and competitive there as far as the real estate market as well. So we wanted to find a new market that was affordable, had, you know, strong rental market, growing economy, universities, low crime, whatever, all of the demographics that we were looking for. And so we started researching everywhere and looking where the numbers made sense. Right. ⁓ But all the markets we looked at where the numbers looked really good, we're like ghetto and we're like,

Detroit. Right, or St. Louis. I don't know about this. know, it's like, you know, might be going around collecting rent checks and like have to worry about my safety and stuff like that. But, you know, I didn't realize at the time, like, I'm not going to be going around collecting rent checks. I was going to do online payments and stuff, but we didn't know what we didn't know. So I was asking a bunch of like marine buddies that I knew that were getting out or had already gotten out. Like, oh, where are you from again? Oh, where's home? Tell me about it. know, Megan was doing the same thing.

Tell me about this place and tell me about this place. we were just trying to find a market. then, um, you know, we had Bartles, no, uh, he's a, he's in Lincoln. He's an agent and an investor and a Marine vet as well. But he, we went to the same church in California because he was stationed on Pendleton at the same time I was. So we knew each other from that church and he had gotten out of the Marines years before I did. And he took his wife that he had met in California back home to Lincoln.

And she became a real estate agent and started learning real estate a little bit. And then she called us and was like, Hey, I know you guys have been looking for a market. Like, I think this is the one like you guys got to come check it out. This is perfect. And we're like, okay. So we, came and visited it was September 2017 during the eclipse. Lincoln was in the path of totality. So I'm still active duty. I was just about to get out. ⁓ Megan flies to Lincoln, checks it out, falls in love with the place. It was.

September, whatever, you know, was one week of perfect weather. You know, it just, it fooled us. And it was all green. And she was like, Oh, this is so great. She calls me up and she's like, I love it, but I can't make this decision by myself. I need you to come out too. So I put in for some leave, flew out there, got to see the eclipse. And I'm over here just thinking, it's a sign from God. It's like, know, it's just these, the stars and the thing you bring up for signs and wonders. And, and I was like, this is it. So we go back home. go on.

Terminal leave, we sell our house, we sell everything we own, buy a travel trailer and a truck and ⁓ pack everything we can that fit in there. And if it didn't fit, we sold it. And we drove across the country to Lincoln, Nebraska and ⁓ parked that trailer behind the first few houses that we worked on. just plugged it into power and water. Took it out every few days to dump. And it was just me and Megan and our one-year-old daughter. Yep. And ⁓ that's what we did.

Speaker 1 (16:48)

Okay.

What year was that?

Speaker 2 (16:55)

That was in 2018. So, so yeah, 20.

Yep, 2018.

Speaker 1 (17:04)

It's kind of

a good time to get into it still.

Speaker 2 (17:06)

Yeah. Yeah. was, I mean, it was really cheap then. then, know, it's just been kind of mostly just, yeah, training up since then, um, a little bit more difficult more recently, but, uh, yeah, 19 through 23 was, it was fantastic. Um, yeah. So we, we had to make our, our budget fit and the, be a disability. So that's why we like to sold everything. Cause it was like, okay, she's not going to work. I'm not working.

I got VA disability and then we had to go figure out and a chunk of cash that I had from my like medical severance and from the sale of our house. So I think we were working with maybe around a hundred grand and that was it. So that was what we had to, we had to make that last and we had to do it smart. So we had to like do the burr strategy and make sure we got the right properties to get that money back out and reuse it because otherwise we'd run out and we'd be done.

Speaker 1 (17:59)

So just start off using your own money.

Speaker 2 (18:02)

Well, we did financing for the first few properties, but we used our money for like the down or whatever. ⁓ And then, then we were tapped out. I was like, we can't get any more. Can't get approved for any more on our debt to income ratio with what we have. So then we started flipping on hard money and had to do that for a couple of years. So.

Speaker 1 (18:24)

Yeah, so you started off flip. know you're making at least a done one in New Mexico.

Speaker 2 (18:30)

That was

our very, very first thing that ever, yeah, we lost money on that. And, um, our goal was to just buy rental properties. wanted to, we wanted to pass it in, come so we could travel. And, but we didn't know how to do that. So we just bought a rental property and then we bought a duplex and then, uh, had her dad cosign so that we could get a third one. And that was it. And then we were tapped out and we're like, well, now what? And I was like, oh, well.

I have some realtor income that's coming in now because I just got my license and then Megan had created a staging company and we're like, we got some staging income and we have some rental income now. So let's factor all that in and see where we're at. And they're like, well, you don't have two years of tax returns for the realtor business. You don't have two years of tax returns for the staging and you don't have two years of landlord experience. We're not counting any of that. So we're like, ⁓ well now what? So that's when we started flipping hard money and we just had to do that until we had the tax returns.

And then after that, it was like, wow, now everybody wants to us money.

Speaker 1 (19:30)

So now y'all, you've actually helped me out on a couple deals that I've done by recommending banks and stuff like that, but you guys mostly use bank financing now.

Speaker 2 (19:42)

Well, we, we were, yeah, we were doing commercial financing for a long time. ⁓ now we are mostly just buying everything private money. ⁓ and then if it's something we're flipping, then, you know, we just sell it and then, you know, that gets paid off. ⁓ and if it's something that we're going to keep, we just refi and then keep it and then, but the private money is super quick. Yep. Yep. So, well banks are finicky.

Speaker 1 (20:05)

more reliable.

Thanks, going to be slow.

Speaker 2 (20:11)

Well, everything we buy, fix up to whether it's a flip or a rental. Like we always buy at a discount and improve the value, right? So what we were with the bank financing, we could get spec appraisals and that was working for a while until it kind of stopped working. And so what that is, is like, we would say we'd buy a property and say, okay, we are going to do all of this to it. And we'd give the appraiser the scope of work and the budget. And I would pull ARV comps.

and we give them this whole packet and be like, all right, here's what we're going to do to the place. Here's what we're expecting for ARV on the sale. And they would do a spec appraisal and grab all that and try to give us an appraisal, a value at the end of what it would be at the end of the project. And so we'd have to get that upfront. And then the bank would be like, okay, we'll give you, you know, 80 % of that. So if it was a good enough deal, we could get a hundred percent of the purchase and they would fund the entire rehab as long as it was under that threshold.

If it wasn't, then we'd have to kind pay the difference for the rehab, but we'd get it funded and most of the rehab. But then we started running into these problems where the appraisers didn't have the vision that we had. So they're walking into a house that's distressed and going, you think this is gonna be worth how much? Like, yeah, right. And the appraiser was coming low. Not a big deal. We pay the difference, we get it finished, and then we sell it. And sure enough, we get the price that we thought we were gonna get her higher. So it all worked out at the end, but then we kept.

kind of having money issues because we kept having to put our own money into these things when they should have been fully financed. So we were like, know, money's kind of getting pulled here when it should have been staying and used for this project. And so we were fortunate enough to make a relationship with a private money lender. So it's just like, all right, boom, purchase, rehab, sell it, and we get what we gave them. don't have to worry about those appraisals on the front end. And so that helped out a lot.

Speaker 1 (22:04)

Awesome. So do you feel seven, eight years into it, obviously the market's changed, you feel like things have gotten easier or harder?

Speaker 2 (22:12)

Well, it's kind of evolved over the years. know, like sometimes like when the market was going really hard, high, it was great to sell properties. Everything always went way over asking. It was hard to acquire them. And we had to acquire them on a basis of being like, we're overpaying for this. But by the time we finished the project two months from now, but the way the market's going, should, we should be able to get more than we're, than we're seeing on comps now. And we had to do that kind of gamble for a while and it worked. ⁓

Now it's pretty easy to find deals, but now we're having a contractor problem because it's so easy to find. So it's like, as the market changes, it's either easy to buy or easy to sell or you know, you know how that goes. So right now we have a ton of projects all sitting in the queue and we're having a problem with good contractors and honest contractors that can, you know, get a ton. Whereas before, most of before the struggle was always finding.

the deals and getting them at the right price when the market is trending upwards. Everyone thinks their house is worth, you know. Yeah, it's like, that's what it's worth after I put a hundred grand into it. It's not worth that now. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (23:15)

So so so much. dollars. That's a hundred thousand dollar house.

So talk about working with your wife. divvying up responsibilities because she handles a lot of the flipping side of it, if I'm not mistaken. handle more of the project management and, or not project management, but the property management and your license agent.

Speaker 2 (23:45)

Yeah, yeah. So, I mean, our roles have evolved a few times over the years, and especially since we've learned more about ourselves and figured out our strengths and weaknesses and all that. yeah, so Megan has primarily for most of this time been the project manager. She runs all the flips and the contractors, and she does all the design and picks out all that kind of stuff. So she's just great at that. ⁓

And she's just a little bulldog and get those contractors to do anything. So she's very, very effective at that.

Speaker 1 (24:19)

want to microphone the house and see what they say about it when she walks out.

Speaker 2 (24:22)

I don't think I need a microphone to know. ⁓ so then I did the property management. So I've been doing that pretty much just, you know, well, exclusively the whole time. And then doing the realtor stuff. I'm not, she's a realtor too, but she, we got her, her license just so we can like advertise and market together and stuff without the commission. You know, there's a lot of rules and things that make things difficult. ⁓ So she doesn't, it's just so she can.

talk to people or bring in clients or do anything like that and I'll have to get in trouble with her doing license activity as a non-licensed agent type thing. So she doesn't know how to do any contracts or any of that stuff. I do all of it. ⁓ And ⁓ then let's see, she does a staging company, ⁓ but that's pretty much completely run now by our assistants. So Megan doesn't, that's on autopilot. And ⁓ even our

Projects now are kind of mostly ran by our assistant Natasha. She's our new project manager So Megan does the design and then she does the rest she gets all the materials gets it on site manages Contractors and does all that she runs the staging company entirely and then she helps us out with just Whatever whatever I whatever we need She helps me out with signs lock boxes and stuff for realtor stuff for property management stuff keys Whatever just does all that running around so we can just focus on what we need to be doing

⁓ Then we have a full-time VA that does everything administrative that can be done for overseas. So she does all that.

Speaker 1 (25:59)

So you're basically running your company, you, Megan, and then two people. One boots on the ground and one doing paperwork.

Speaker 2 (26:07)

So, ⁓ yeah, so now I do the management, do the realtor, that's my acquisitions now. And then ⁓ Natasha's handling all the rest and Megan's very heavily focused right now on the first program that she's running for Brandon Turner. So that's been taking up most of her time.

Speaker 1 (26:27)

How hard was it to find a Natasha?

Speaker 2 (26:29)

It was hard. we, it took, how long has she been working for us? I'm not sure. think going on maybe three years, but, ⁓ everybody we had hired before that was, it was not great, but we learned you got to hire slow and fire fast. We were doing it the opposite before and it wasn't working. So we were hiring too fast. Cause like, we need somebody now like, ⁓ this is like the best option. And then we weren't letting them go when we knew we needed to because

We were like, we don't have another option. So then we finally just bit the bullet and said, all right, get rid of everybody and then ⁓ find the right person, find a rock star. So Megan put out a application link and description and all that kind of stuff and spread it out there. And she made whoever wanted to apply go through the gambit. they had to, there was very detailed instructions on take that, go to this Dropbox links and grab all these videos and.

make this little Instagram reel kind of like about this and then email this email with three recommendations of something that could have made this better and then text this number and do this and then make sure you submit this here and have a cover letter and it was purposely that way to see if they could follow instructions that had attention to detail and they could just follow every step and get it done. whether you will do it or not. And then

Speaker 1 (27:50)

You told him exactly what to do, whether you could do it or not.

Speaker 2 (27:56)

we would have people go to apply and be like, but this isn't a social media position. Like, why do I need to make you an Instagram real? it's like, I just want to see if you're resourceful. And if you can get something done that you're asked to get done, whether you know how to do it or not. And so with all the applications she got, nobody completed all of it or except for Natasha. And she had to go to her daughter and be like, how do you do this? I don't even know how to use Instagram. Her daughter helped her she made it happen. And it was terrible. That wasn't the point. It was the point is can you do it?

and she did, so she's been amazing. So she's awesome, she's part of the family now. just. She worked in like retail, she was like management and retail. I know she worked at Shields before she worked for us and then for long time and then other similar jobs.

Speaker 1 (28:31)

or background before.

I've heard basically multitasking like ⁓ event coordinator, if you're getting assistance, good one, because they're dealing with the bridezilla or whatever they're used to dealing with all these different personalities and ⁓ just able to ⁓ do different tasks and stuff like that. So I've always heard, and that's why I asked that was to see kind of background. I've heard that's a good one.

Speaker 2 (29:10)

Yeah, well Megan jokes around all the time and says that me and her are our worst employees in business because we just don't do what we're supposed to do a lot of times. her, like we tell her to get it done once it's done. We don't have to think about it again. And that's invaluable. know, it's like, can't put a price on that. Like ⁓ just the fact that we can just say it once and forget it.

has been amazing. So she's hard working, she loves what she does and she gets to do a lot and she's been growing in that responsibility and ⁓ we got her licensed here too so she's hopefully going to start doing some realtor stuff more of that.

Speaker 1 (29:49)

Plus you can do some on the side and get a little extra income. was she with y'all before y'all moved to Hawaii?

Speaker 2 (29:56)

So actually we hired her probably a month before we moved to Hawaii. Wow. So that's how amazing she was. So we hired her and then like, we didn't know we were moving. And then like short, like a month later, we're like, so how would you feel about, uh, how's it going to the Maui for like a year?

She was like, you should totally do it. She was completely supportive of it. Whereas like somebody else would have been like, well, how are you supposed to train me? Like she was still learning everything. So we just had to kind of do it long distance and she ⁓ just held the fort down while we were gone.

Speaker 1 (30:29)

So she really had to learn by fire. did. That's interesting. So kind of unpack that. said a month out, you hire her. And then a couple of weeks later, you decided to move to Hawaii. was, you know, why'd you move to Hawaii? Just kind of that whole, whole story there.

Speaker 2 (30:49)

Yeah, so let's see, version or short version. So we, when we started...

this whole business of real estate investing and started this journey, we had sat down together and said, okay, what's our goal here? What's our five year goal? And at the time our dream was to like get a sailboat and live in a sailboat and just travel the world. And they kind of port to port and live in a sailboat. We had picked a sailboat out. We went to a boat show. We checked out every catamaran, 40 foot, 50 foot, 60, you know, just.

Found a one and we're like, ⁓ this is the one, this is perfect. Half a million bucks, totally doable, know, five years from now. And I was reading all these blogs and trying to figure out, how much passive income do I need to be able to comfortably travel and live on a boat without pinching pennies and, you know, making it not fun. And what I had come up with from some bloggers and people that say, was like, you know, basically 10,000 bucks passive, like.

Passive, totally passive, all bills and expenses paid and then you have just 10,000 bucks coming in, you're fine. That'll pay for your port, your fuel, all the stuff. And so we worked backwards. We're like, okay, if we get this many properties at cash flow this much per door for five years, I think we'll be there in five years. And so our goal was for $10,000 passive income a month and net worth of a million dollars by year five.

Well, right around this timeframe, when we hired Natasha and stuff like that was like year five for us. And we hadn't even like, we'd just been so busy. We didn't really look at our financial sheet or even update it and see where we were at. So we decided to do that. And we realized, holy cow, we literally just like we're at 10,000, like almost break even on passive income. And we just broke a million in net worth as far as, you know, all the properties and stuff. And we're like, what the heck, man? Like.

And we already had our flights booked for Maui. It was just going to be a three week trip. And we were like, let's just go celebrate. And Brandon Turner was like, yeah, you should just move out of here. Like, you should just come out. And we're like, yeah, maybe we should. So we just decided in three weeks to just change our flight to a one way and sell our house and everything again. So that's what we did.

Speaker 1 (33:14)

funny you mention that so some of these books up here are actually from you so like Tim Ferriss one just read a letter words of Jesus so when y'all were selling y'all put an ad out hey we got to get rid of everything we're moving to Hawaii so I went over to y'all's house and I bought I have a whole bunch more but there's probably more on that side I just bought a whole bunch of books from you guys because I was looking I was like it was like religious books and real estate books I was like

Speaker 2 (33:27)

you said you got those marks.

Speaker 1 (33:40)

Perfect. I'm going to buy them all. Yeah. And so I went there and just, you know, got all y'all's books. But yeah. So there's probably more, like I said, that are, uh, from there. But yeah. So you're helping decorate it here.

Speaker 2 (33:54)

Rebuilding yeah Backed up moved to Maui and you know, it was for multiple reasons one to celebrate our successes and that win of a hidden our goal which we hadn't even realized we had done yet and then also We had realized that we had It had taken a burden. Yeah, we had to work really hard for you know, every day of the week long hours to do this and

Speaker 1 (33:54)

I sold everything pack up

Speaker 2 (34:22)

And it was affecting our marriage. was affecting our relationship with our kids. You know, we have three kids now. And it was like, I want like, I didn't do this to just be a slave to this. Like we wanted this to have freedom. So it's like, let's do that. Let's take this the next step forward and let's go to Maui and force ourselves to create the systems to be able to do this remotely so that we can run the businesses and not be stuck here working all the time.

So that's what we did and we went there and it worked out great. think it was our best year that we ever had that we were there. Even though the banks were kind of finicky about it, we lost some banks. They stopped financing us because we weren't living there anymore. So.

Speaker 1 (35:03)

What did it force you to do?

Speaker 2 (35:04)

It forced us to create systems for everything because we couldn't do anything at all physically there. So if I get a maintenance call that's like, hey, the toilet paper roller or whatever holder fell off, you know, I'm not going to pay a guy to come over there and do that. He's going to charge me way too much money to do that. So I would just run over, knock it out in five minutes for that piddly stuff and, uh, or run it home, deep on, grab this and grab that or whatever. And so we were stuck.

doing a lot of that running around stuff because we didn't want to pay too much to have somebody do it when we could just knock it out. But that was holding us back from working on the things that we really needed to be working on, working on the business, not in it. ⁓ And so moving to Maui forced us to have to, you know, just get the contractor out there and do the maintenance and pay them and it costs more money and send Natasha or whoever to run the Home Depot and do this and do that.

You know, that takes away from other things that she's doing and we have to pay her for doing that. So that kind of sucks. But what it did is it allowed us to focus on the acquisitions and other more important things. And so we were able to improve the deal flow by focusing on what we needed to and delegating all of the rest. And we had the best year that we ever had.

Speaker 1 (36:22)

think where people in business goes wrong and flipping and all that is everything has a dollar associated to it. Every task has a dollar associated to it. Right. Where's your best use of spending that dollar or your time? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (36:35)

I

should not be doing 15 $20 an hour tasks because I can hire anybody to do that. I can't hire anybody to do what I do now and what I've learned over all the years of doing this like you can't just hire somebody that doesn't have that experience and and if they do have that experience like You're probably not gonna able to pay him enough money to do that because they're doing it, you know, so

Speaker 1 (36:58)

So you kind of had a five year goal. You hit it by not even tracking it, but you hit it.

Speaker 2 (37:06)

I think there was some tracking for a while and then you just fell away for them.

Speaker 1 (37:11)

You decided

to move to Hawaii and kind of, that was kind of your freedom from, know, your celebration and freedom from that. What did you, I guess, learn or how did it change your life being in Maui for a year other than the business side, just more on the personal one. ⁓

Speaker 2 (37:31)

So, I mean, it was amazing. We got to have so much time with the kids ⁓ and work on our marriage and relationship. ⁓ so Megan and I just grew real close again because we were just so busy. And we just didn't have time for each other. And then was like, we got to do all these fun, amazing adventures and be at the beach every day with the kids. And it was just amazing to do life with them instead of just them being my kids. don't get to, you know, it's all just.

short bursts in the morning or the evening and you know we're just working all the time. And so it was a really amazing year like just family time and healing and growing close and then afterwards when we moved back here.

We realized that how much more we can do with less. And so now our work days are much shorter. We have way more balance. We have way more family time. and I have way more time to do things together. And so our relationships as a whole and our family have just improved dramatically and everything. It's like, is, this is what we did this for. Like this is freedom. And yeah, we're still working and we're still growing and working our way to where we're completely free. But, but now it's not so much of a grind. It's not so much of like a

we have to keep going or we're going to go bankrupt this winter or next winter. It's like we have things moving. We got the deal flow going. The systems are improving. Our work days are way shorter and we have more balance and that has just been absolutely amazing to be able to be more involved in my kids life and all that because they're growing up so fast and soon they're not going to want to have anything to do with me or hopefully they'll all put them to work.

Speaker 1 (39:08)

I want them

to work with him.

Speaker 2 (39:11)

If I can get them into the business and they can learn this and they can you know take ownership of it and take off with it that would be awesome. it's not for them. for that for them that's fine if they want to go to college it's all paid for.

Speaker 1 (39:21)

that.

Yeah. Was it being in Hawaii that kind of helped a lot of that or was it being around the people you were around or a combination?

Speaker 2 (39:39)

⁓ I guess you could say it was both because what was really cool about being in Maui was all of the friends that we had there were all transplants So nobody was like local like long-term. So nobody really all of our friends that we had there The our family was each other and we didn't have like

other family on the islands and stuff. So it was this really cool community where ⁓ we got to hang out all the time too. And with the time difference, everybody that we knew that lived there all has businesses in the, you know, the States. So it's like a four to five hour time difference, depending on where in the States and, know, daylight savings and all that. But for us, it was four or five years or hours. So by noon, everything in Lincoln's done. Workday's over.

So we were up early, like sometimes three in the morning, in the morning, phone's going off, gotta do some stuff, go back to sleep or whatever, early mornings, but then by 11 o'clock noon, it's done. And we have the whole afternoon to go do whatever we want with our friends, go to the beach, nobody's gotta work anymore. And so that made it like just amazing to be able to like do things with people all the time.

It's hard to do things with friends here. You can invite somebody over for dinner and they'll cancel three times and maybe a year later it'll happen and everybody's busy. It's hard to make those commitments. But there every day we had a group chat and people were like, hey, we're going to the beach here. If anyone wants to join, people would join. Hey, we're going grabbing lunch here. If anybody's free, people would just show. And it was like, this is amazing. You're doing life with your family and your friends and your people. And we did Aloha Friday every Friday at Brandon's house and everybody would come and bring. It was like potluck style.

and the kids are swimming in the pool and watching movies all night and we're just hanging out talking and ⁓ everybody just kind of leaves when they want to leave. So that really opened our eyes to see the possibility of how life can be lived versus just head down, grinding nine to five.

maybe getting a couple weeks of vacation here and there or whatever. ⁓ And so now we've just been way more intent or intentional about more family time, like keeping things balanced and traveling and going on these adventures and really just doing life with our kids. And ⁓ we've been trying to still do more with our friends in the community, but that's been more challenging.

Speaker 1 (41:57)

You think it's just different mentality in different areas or?

Speaker 2 (42:01)

Yeah, and just the ability to. Our friends in Maui all had money.

And like I said, that workday was over in the middle of the day. So we could go hang out all the time here. That's not really the case. Even if you have money, our schedules are all the same and everyone's and kids and school and you know, it's just harder. It's harder for people to have the time to just hang out. So, we wanted to bring that here to Lincoln and just like doing Aloha Friday and have people come over like every Friday, whoever wants to come. And, ⁓ but it's been challenging. It's been hard to get people to come.

So I don't know, it's mentality, just it could be a number of things. I'm sure it's a number of things, but.

Speaker 1 (42:43)

different culture, I guess maybe. just time. I think the time makes a big difference, know? And plus right now I don't want to, well, today's nice outside, but right now, but, for the most part around here at night, I don't really want to do much this time of year.

Speaker 2 (42:58)

Yeah,

that's the other thing too. mean, it's beautiful weather all day, every day, all year. think it's like, I think the lowest temperature we ever saw was 65 and the highest was like 85. So it's like in the winter months, it's like 65 to 75 through that's the high and low of the day every day. And then in the summer months, it's like 75 to 85. It's like the high and low. So it's like a 20 degree difference from the entire year. And that's it.

Speaker 1 (43:22)

that more than a day around here. So, way different. ⁓ I had a question and, lost my train of thought talking about weather, but what, so you say you brought some of that back with, or tried to bring some of that back. What, far as business aspects, did you bring back? ⁓ obviously built the systems, but model your life, where your business.

Speaker 2 (43:25)

fits.

That's been a

At first it was bad. It's been challenging. So when we first came back, we were like, okay, we are still in Maui. You do not drive to Home Depot. You do not go do this. know, cause it's like, we didn't want to get sucked back into doing all that. And then it hurt our bottom line because now we're not, you know, getting focused and all what we're supposed to do. So at first we were doing okay with that. And then we started kind of getting sucked back in. And so that's kind of a, ⁓ you know, a moving target, but really just trying to make sure that we

keep working the systems as if we were not there and just staying at the house, working and delegating. And so we've been getting better at that now, although today I just, I did fix a doorknob, but old habits. I heard two minutes.

Speaker 1 (44:39)

So how much has a masterminds and education and stuff. know you mentioned Megan's working with Brandon Turner on, I forget the name of the program, but she's teaching now. How much has that been a part of your life? And would you be here today if it wasn't for all the things you've done? You and Megan.

Speaker 2 (45:01)

no, no, mean, Megan, wasn't as good at networking after I got out, obviously, you know, and a little, yeah, just went. took some time to get used to people and all of that.

Speaker 1 (45:18)

I

I'll derail this for a second, but when COVID first happened, had this meme of this veteran sitting on his front porch, knowing around, drinking a cup of coffee. he's like, I've been, I've been training 20 years for this. it was like, he was at heaven with the COVID shutdown and knowing around, but anyhow.

Speaker 2 (45:38)

⁓ So yeah, Megan was real great at that and and I mean, yeah, I mean the connections that we made and information that we learned from people has been invaluable and then from the masterminds especially like everyone that we ever went to or Megan went to There was at least one nugget learned that paid for the mastermind entirely and then some so like for example I think the first one that Megan went to she met ⁓ this big-time flipper from Hawaii Indar

and learned one little thing from him that he had just casually mentioned about cost segregation studies. And ever since then, we've never, we haven't paid a penny in taxes since. In fact, we've been getting money back, which probably should be saved. But no, it's because we have all of our rental properties that we're buying and all we're doing is you have your depreciation, right? Over the 27 years of that for those things that wear out. And so every year you get some depreciation on that.

Speaker 1 (46:25)

You

Speaker 2 (46:38)

All it's doing is it's front loading that depreciation year one. And so when we learned that we're like, holy cow. So we could go and do these cost segregation studies. We fill out the forms, how much square footage of carpet in this and curtains and Bob, all the stuff that's in there. And then they figure it all out. And then we get a, ⁓ they front load that appreciation and we get that. So you get the offset or taxes with that. The benefit to doing that is because the problem that we were having before is we were writing everything off.

to pay less in taxes. So we're trying to, that's a, ⁓ hey, we talked about real estate during dinner, write it off, write it off. We were writing everything off. But then I came into problems down the road with financing because the bankers were like, well, here's your tax returns. You're not really making a whole lot, but I can see how much you're donating. So I know you guys are doing better than what you're showing on paper. We're like, well, yeah, we're trying to, you know, obviously write things off. And they're like,

Speaker 1 (47:32)

Double-edged sword, right.

Speaker 2 (47:34)

So we stopped doing that and but the benefit of, you know, doing the cost segregation studies and front loading that depreciation is what it does is it brings your income down because offsets all of our active income. So let's say we get 50,000 bucks of depreciation for this property and we just do multiple properties like that and stack them all up. We can make $500,000 in a year and offload all of it. And then on paper shows we made nothing. So we pay no taxes.

but then the banks know that all that is is just depreciation. So they bring that back in. So when the bankers look at it, we get to show our 500,000 income, but we don't have to pay the taxes on it. So it's been great. All we have to do is just keep buying enough properties every year to offset however much money that we made that year.

Speaker 1 (48:24)

So you're offsetting both your flips and your... ⁓

Speaker 2 (48:27)

We're offsetting all of our active income from realtor business, staging, flipping, rental, everything. And so, and since we have kids, there's some credits throughout the years that have been happening for that. So I think we made 15 grand this year on our tax return and we made...

Over over half a million. I'm not sure. Yeah, so that was that's invaluable. I don't even know how much that mastermind cost but it doesn't matter. That one thing saved us. Yeah, and there's been things like that that have been learned at every single one of them. know, just when you meet people that are just doing things at a bigger scale, they've learned a few things and so it's worth it to just go and see if you find that little piece of knowledge or nugget or make that connection with somebody or you know.

Speaker 1 (48:54)

is that one thing from Indore.

Yeah. I don't know what Megan paid for that specific one, but say it was $10,000. You've saved 10 times that, know, so it's, is very, it's getting in the rooms like, just having those conversations. Cause you never know. Like that's one things I like about just doing this. Like I spend more money than I'm probably ever make on this podcast, but I get to ask questions like, and it just opens up dialogue. Like, I didn't know that. And so it's.

Speaker 2 (49:19)

less but yeah. ⁓

Speaker 1 (49:46)

just by being in the room and asking people questions that I find that always helps. So, when's the, when you're selling away from Lincoln and, ⁓ on your sailboat.

Speaker 2 (49:57)

Why? The plan has changed a bit, so.

Speaker 1 (50:01)

No sailboat. There's no place. You pick the most landlocked state and... ⁓

Speaker 2 (50:06)

I

didn't pick it, okay, but yeah, I'm well aware. I'm well aware. It's not a good, that's why we don't stick around too often to travel whole lot because I can't, I need to be near the ocean or some mountains and I don't know how I got into the most landlocked and flattest place on earth, but. Go ahead. No, sorry, what?

Speaker 1 (50:09)

There is no selling.

So.

I was asking what's the plan I was making joke about.

Speaker 2 (50:32)

Oh

sure, yeah, yeah, I got sidetracked on that. Well, I don't know. mean, I think Homebase is gonna probably always be here. I think we're always gonna be just investing here. The amount of which we travel may change. Right now, we're staying put for a little while. I think we'll probably go to Florida after New Year's and go to Universal Studios and see some family and stuff and do a little road trip maybe.

Speaker 1 (50:34)

How landlock?

Speaker 2 (51:00)

Yeah, as far as like long-term plans, like we just want to travel and be able to be free to see the world and do it with our kids and do it while we're young. And that's the dream. We don't have the sailboat idea anymore because I realized as I was taking lessons to sail that there's a whole lot to it. And I was like, I don't want to get my family killed. Like I'd be like, cool. I got my license and I can sail now. Let's go sail across an entire ocean.

And even experienced sailors running to storms or things that can catch them by surprise, can be catastrophic. And I'm like, I don't really want to go just kill my whole family out at sea because I just think I can become Jack Sparrow and sail the seven seas. So I was like, okay, so I need to get a captain and a crew. And that would be nice anyway. Have somebody drive the boat. We're just along for the ride. We got a chef or something like, okay, what does that look like? How much do you have to pay for that?

and now you got to get a bigger boat probably and all these things. And then we're like, and then we're just kind of stuck. We know where we are and we're like, let's just not do that and just fly and travel and Airbnb or whatever, and just be free and not tied down to this boat or this maintenance. Just nightmare. ⁓ that, you know, it's just going to make it harder to get around and do what we want to do and all that money, just going to the boat, which could just be going to whatever. So.

I got a buddy that owns a boat cleaning business in California and I was talking to him about it he was telling me about the maintenance on those things and the cleaning and stuff and I was like, man, this sounds terrible. He's like, yeah, every one of my clients, they all say the same thing. The best day of your life is the day you bought your boat and the day you sold it or something like that.

Speaker 1 (52:50)

Bust out another thousand. That's boat stands for. Yeah, I've uh, you talk about not wanting to get your license and take off and kill your family on a boat like I've been thinking about getting my private pilot's license I'm in the same way like I get pilots license going back to taxes 100 % bonus depreciation on a plane You know, could buy it I give him a license I could buy it I could save on taxes I was like, then I could kill my family. So that's like my

Speaker 2 (53:10)

Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1 (53:19)

My whole thing there, I keep going back and forth on it.

Speaker 2 (53:22)

Yeah, yeah, it's just like, ⁓ it'd be fun. we can always just rent a boat or just, you know, book a boat with a crew and be like, Hey, let's go on a little trip down to the Caribbean or something and back. And, know, we can still have that experience, but then not just be stuck to it.

Speaker 1 (53:40)

Little yacht. I'm sure you did a lot of catamaran cruises around Maui while you were there. At least one or two.

Speaker 2 (53:48)

Yeah, we did one or two. Yeah, we did like a whale watching one and maybe another one.

Speaker 1 (53:56)

Did you ever, ⁓ I know Brandon's talked about, ⁓ paddle boarding out and chasing the whales. Did you do that while you were there? How was that?

Speaker 2 (54:04)

It was great. It was amazing. You can just get right up to them. It's surreal. I got a drone while I was out there and I would fly the drone. I'd find them and I could just get within feet of them and just get the most amazing footage of whales and dolphins and stuff. And it was like, yeah, it's pretty incredible. At one point we paddle boarded up to one and it was like, I got as close as I was comfortable.

And it was just sitting there, just massive thing. you're just in the water, like right next to it. Like if it decides to swim away and it's a fin or something, I'm going to get my neck broke or something. Keep my distance. But yeah, it's just crazy. They're all what you're long just hanging out.

Speaker 1 (54:43)

Yeah. I, ⁓ did a Alaskan cruise and one the we did was go, ⁓ whale watching and I thought they were just lying to us, but they started doing, I it was called like bubble net fishing or something like that. Basically they go around and bubble or go around in circles and then blow bubbles and it forces all the krill to the middle. And then they come up through and like shoot out the water and capture them all in their mouth.

Like this guy's like, super rare. So I'm like the second or third time I've ever seen it. I'm like, this guy's just lying, you know, just to get us hype on this thing. And then like a couple of years later, I was watching a documentary on whales or something. Like they said the same thing. I was like, I guess this dude wasn't, wasn't lying to us after all. yeah, was, like you said, you can only get so close. I mean, we're in a big boat, but it was kind of crazy. So, what does, obviously you did the military, um, financially freedom, got to move to Hawaii.

What's freedom? Like what's your definition of freedom now?

Speaker 2 (55:51)

I'm going to butcher this quote, but I was reading a book by Jordan Peterson. think I don't know if I was reading a video or something, but he was talking about if you want to be able to have the freedom to really do what you want and stand up for what you believe, like you have to have multiple types.

Well, really just to be able to stand up for what you believe you have to be able to have multiple types of freedom. You have to have the financial freedom like for example during COVID how many people did something or were forced to do something they didn't want to do or didn't believe in just to keep their job? How many people had to keep their mouths shut just to not lose their job and not say what they wanted to say, you know, because they don't have the financial freedom to be like, I don't need this job. I'm going to say what I

believe and I'm going to say what is true or whatever and be able to stand up for that and not have to worry about the consequences. that really had me thinking a lot about that is because I felt like I couldn't say a lot of what I wanted to say and I couldn't do this and I couldn't whatever. And so now for me, freedom would be not having to work for the man, having the freedom to create your own possibilities and wealth.

and having passive income obviously, and then having the freedom to be able to.

work or donate for causes or charities or things that you believe in and be able to say things that you believe in and stand up for what you believe in and not have to worry about oh I can't do this because I'm gonna lose my job or I can't do this because x y and z because that is what I feel like controls most of the population is not having the freedom to be able to be truly yourself if that makes sense.

Speaker 1 (57:46)

Yeah,

standing on own principles and your own thoughts.

Speaker 2 (57:50)

Everybody can just go and

say, this is the hill I'm going to die on because then they go, I don't have a job anymore. And now can't feed them. They can't. You just got to tell the line and keep your mouth shut. I feel like there's a lot of people that are trapped in situations like that just because of their job or whatever, whatever lack of freedom that they have.

Speaker 1 (58:11)

Yeah, are you, ⁓ I know you were, we talked once that you were helping out like different veteran ⁓ communities or whatever like with struggles, I you were going out to California or something like that. Are you still doing stuff like that or?

Speaker 2 (58:28)

⁓ I know a few people that have ⁓ some programs and things for veterans and so I like to always like see what that's about and get involved if I can. Someday I'd like to, you know, I have a heart for that. And I know there's a lot of programs that ⁓ for housing and various things that are all out there. ⁓

Someday I'd like to probably do something like that. I don't know what that looks like yet or where my heart is going to lead me to, but ⁓ I do know this guy like Chad Robichaud, he's a ex-Forrest Recon Marine and he's got a program called the Mighty Oaks Warrior.

program or warrior foundation or something like that. so there's multiple locations around the country now and every week they have a class and it's for any veterans or active duty or first responders. That's it. Like if you have been, if you meet that criteria and you want to go, you go, it's completely paid for.

So that one in California that I went to was his. He wanted to send me out there and check it out and it was incredible. I've never seen anything like it. I've been trying to get everybody I know, every vet that's struggling in any way, I recommend it to them. And it's basically just a week of being around like-minded people.

that have been in the same kind of situations, whatever. Everybody's damaged and an incredible staff, incredible food, lodging, everything in these classes about like just...

Stepping up and being the men that were called to be and applying it all through like kind of biblical principles But it's not all preaching and churchy which is good because most of the guys there are not that way And so it was very well received by everybody. Nobody felt like we're getting all preached to and stuff like that But it was just principles at work

And so there'd be all these classes and the instructors are all guys that are vets and first responders and things like that. So they tied their own testimony into every one of the classes they taught. And they were all very powerful, very emotional and just made a lot of really good friendships there that week. Whole lot of healing, really good program. ⁓ And I just think like stuff like that's awesome. There needs to be more things out there to help vets.

Speaker 1 (1:00:48)

Do think

there needs to be more things out there like that? Or do you think there needs to be a better awareness of the things out there?

Speaker 2 (1:00:54)

There

needs to be more aware. Well, here's the problem. All the things that are for vets that are funded by the government suck. Yeah, and that's the only thing anybody knows about so the private

programs and things and companies and things like this one are incredible but nobody knows about them. So it's kind of a, you know, we have to get the awareness out of the programs that work, private sector, I believe in everything private sector is far more effective than the government because they can't run anything effectively, you know, at a grand scale. So it's like, it's kind of just like with today, everybody with the snap and the food and everyone's in fighting about this. It's like, that's not the government's job.

That should be the community's job, the church. If people need food, that's our job. Relying on the government is not it. I think people are starting to wake up.

Speaker 1 (1:01:39)

Related back

to biblical principle, Jesus says one part in the Bible, he says, if you do this, you will have no poor and everyone will be fine. But I know you won't do any of this or all of this. And so you will always have the poor. And that's what I feel like the government is. Like as long as they're, we're given to the government, we think we're doing something versus actually helping your neighbor and helping them.

Speaker 2 (1:02:05)

And

it changes the mindset of the people getting the benefit too, I think, because it's like, if it's just the government giving me money, don't care. Like I'm just going to never work again and just keep collecting that and become dependent.

Speaker 1 (1:02:19)

faceless.

Speaker 2 (1:02:20)

Yeah,

but if your neighbor or your friend or your church has to sacrifice to help you during a hard time, you're to be like, okay, thanks for the help so much. We're super appreciative and this is going to use back on our feet and we're going to do better because you don't want to be a cancer or just to just be, you know, to people, you know, and or be a burden. If you need help, absolutely. The community helps, but it's going to make you want to like do better and not be that person that always has to be.

You know the one, that's just my thought. I don't But I think anybody has a problem taking the government's money. ⁓

Speaker 1 (1:02:50)

Yeah.

It's

basically like, doesn't feel like it's real money, but like we went to a visit a different church this past weekend and they were saying, you know, like we're out of food. Like everybody's been, ⁓ coming here asking for food and stuff like that. My wife works at a church as well and she's actually the one that buys the food and gets it for their, for everybody. And, ⁓ she's like, yeah, we're out of food. She's like, I got to stop on the way here and get a, some kind of voucher or something for somebody. And like,

It is very interesting that government shuts down once it's been 45 days roughly. And that's the point we're at in society is.

government can't and so churches are running out of food just that quickly in 45 days asking for more money, more donations and all that.

Speaker 2 (1:03:43)

Yeah, well, what's cool thing about that is that when the church runs out of resources, God always finds a way and comes through, you know, like always figure out how to come to that's not necessarily the case with the government. Maybe back when it was one nation under God, but.

Speaker 1 (1:04:00)

Not so much. So well, Jeff, I appreciate it. Do you have any parting words before I you go try to pick up your kids?

Speaker 2 (1:04:10)

I don't think so. Yeah, it's been great. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (1:04:13)

Appreciate

it. And, ⁓ yeah, it's always a good and happy veterans day. We're actually recording this on veterans day. So that was one of the, one of my selling features of getting you here. So

Speaker 2 (1:04:25)

I was coming. Just schedule a deconfliction here.

Speaker 1 (1:04:30)

So I

appreciate it and thank you for joining me.

Speaker 2 (1:04:32)

Yeah, you too.