From Rejection to Six Figures: How a Wisconsin Farm Kid Became a Top M&A Closer

Sean High came to the Air Force with nothing but grit. Dairy farm kid. Working 40 hours a week while in school. Side hustle while serving. Real estate on the side. Then a car accident changed everything.

But here's what most people miss: getting knocked down taught him something most people never learn. He didn't retreat. He pivoted.

Now he's closing deals with $20 million dollar business owners over the phone. Cold calling. No fancy pitch. Just skill, resilience, and the belief that rejection is just part of the game.

In this conversation, Ryan and Sean break down what the military actually teaches you about business that Harvard won't. Why your background doesn't determine your ceiling. How to build a life around freedom, not just money. And the brutal truth about sales: you either get comfortable with rejection or you stay broke.

If you've ever thought about shifting careers, building something from nothing, or learning to sell the way the top 1% actually do it, this episode is for you.

TOPICS COVERED:

• The dairy farm to $20M business owner cold calls
• What military bearing teaches you about sales and authenticity
• Why rejection is a skill, not a personality trait
• How the best deal-makers think about leverage and timing
• Building wealth vs. building a lifestyle
• The M&A space: lower middle market ($1-25M) and how deals actually work
• Why 90% of deals fall apart the first time
• Dunning-Kruger effect in business and how to spot it in yourself
• Service business to scalable model: the shift Sean is making
• Freedom as the real currency

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#podcast #sales #entrepreneur #business #militaryentrepreneur #coldcalling #mergers #acquisitions #realestate #freedom #businessmindset

Transcript

 I'm just a farmer kid from Wisconsin. Started out on a dairy farm working 40 hours a week with school, doing a side job. I was able to get my bachelor's degree done while I was in the military. Ended up getting in a getting rear-ended, um, car accident. So I can't do that at the same capacity. You know, I'm able to land this job with a mergers and acquisitions firm, but if you can get a $20 million business owner to a 10. Sean, appreciate you coming in today and, um, just joining us and I kind of want to get a little bit of your story. I know we got, had the opportunity to serve together in the military and you were always kind of entrepreneurial on what you did, and then when you got out, you went. Basically straight into business and mm-hmm. Uh, now you're doing m and a and stuff. I kind of want to hear your story and just learn how the military experience helped you in business. Oh, for sure. Um, so I'm just a farmer kid from Wisconsin, you know, maybe can hear it in my voice. Um, start out on a dairy farm working. You know, 40 hours a week with school. Um, my grades actually went up, so I need to have a lot going on. Um, but yeah, when I was, when I was in the military, I was doing a side job where, um, I was basically running my own little owner operator business, um, you know, making the best of it, finishing up my degree while I was there, I was able to get my bachelor's degree done while I was in the military. While doing, doing the mission you're very familiar with. Uh, it's pretty involving. Um, yeah. Um, and running the business up, buying real estate while I was in, was able to buy a house there. And, uh, served five years honorably, which still have a lot of great connections and friends. I can stop on the road wherever I go, pretty much. Um, very grateful for my military experience and. Um, how I look at masculinity and everything like that. And, um, I mean, guys like ro like salt of the earth, people that are just, there's nothing bad I can say about a lot of the people I met in the military, you know? Um, yeah, just a lot of really good takeaways. And then, um, and moving out here into Austin, renting, you know, the house in Omaha. Um. And then being, being able to buy a house out here in Austin using, you know, the VA loan and other, other benefits. Just using every opportunity I can, uh, just very, very grateful for, for all that. Um, I was actually rent out here. I started from nothing. I was renting a room out of a house and, um, the landlord ended up putting the house up for sale and I was like, I'll buy it. So I gave him this estimate. And, uh, interest rates were 2.65 at the time. So all the people I lived with in the house were all of a sudden paying me rent. I was making more, uh, from the rent in the house than the mortgage was. So, um, I just, things really fell into place after I got of the military. Um, did the owner operator thing for a few years, ended up getting in a, getting rear-ended, um, car accident. So I can't do that. At the safe capacity. Um, but I did enjoy a lot of freedom being able to travel. I went to Thailand, Japan, um, all over the US to took a 4,500 mile motorcycle ride up to Connecticut. Just, yeah, being, being your own owner operator, business owner just affords you a lot of freedoms that you wouldn't have with, you know, the rigid schedule being in the military or, or a normal job. So, but. I'm always trying to learn. Um, you know, I was able to land this job, um, with a mergers and acquisitions firm and just learning. And to be honest with you, it's, it's cold calling, but you learn a lot. You gotta build rapport fast, and that's a career change for me. Moving into sales from, you know, backbreaking labor, avionics, you know, that. One of the hardest jobs in the, in the Air Force as far as knowledge. Right. I don't know if you can attest to that. It's gotta have a pretty high fab score. It's pretty challenging. I don't know. I don't know. I, I, I, I think I probably lower the IQ of the, of the, uh. Of everybody around me. So no, I, I don't know. There, there's a lot of physics involved in that. I mean, you, you gotta be a smart cookie to, to do that stuff. I wouldn't downplay it. Um, I never, taking a physics class in my life and then being able to do that, um, really gave me a lot of confidence. So I'm, I'm definitely the type of person that, um, I'm not really afraid to fail and have rejection and I. You just gotta keep trucking know you're gonna be All right. So I'll, I'll take every opportunity. I can talk a little bit about what you're, you're, I'll call it side hustle. When you're in military, like, like you said, you were all going to school in the military. You were always, I, I'll let you talk about it, I guess a little bit what you're doing. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I mean, I just, I guess you're supposed to sign a waiver for that or something, but I just told, uh, captain Beetle, I told everyone, I'm like, Hey, I'm, I'm putting up basketball hoops on the weekend. I'm making an extra two, 3000 bucks with a few days that I have off, which it, that was a lot of money to me. And, um, you know, you could be sitting around watching cartoons or whatever, but, um, I was trying to do the most productive thing possible with the time I have. So I was, I could not calm down in that in and I worked a lot. But it goes to show that just a little bit extra time, couple thousand dollars, I mean that's probably double your salary, you know, basically. So yeah, a little bit of hustle goes a long way. Yeah, it keep, keeps you hung hungry and um. You know, helps you economize your time a lot better too. Time management is huge. It's, it's crazy 'cause when you're owner operator of your own business, you, a lot of times I had a lot of time where I just got all the work done and then you end up not being as productive with more time. Which, which is really ironic. You'd think with, with scarcity of time, you, you get more done and you're more creative. Um, I feel like. Yeah, we, we've talked a lot about how, um, what, what's the, the, not Dunning Kruger, it's the, um, Parkinson's law. Yeah. That it's where, where a task will fill the space of the time that you allocate for it and mm-hmm. I think what you're saying is, is a perfect testament to that because. I mean, the, if you take your weekends off and I worked hard all, all week, I deserve a weekend to play video games. Mm-hmm. And sit around then, then that's all you're gonna do. But by shrinking that time and into productivity, I mean, like mm-hmm. Like you said, you doubled your salary and being junior enlisted, I, I remember, you know, those days is that that paycheck only goes so far. Oh yeah. And I mean, I spent money too. I bought motorcycles. I lived in a penthouse downtown. Like I, I had a blast while I was out there, so I, I really enjoyed my time in Omaha. When I wanna move back, I, I don't know, but, uh, it's, it is pretty cold there, but it's. Uh, not as bad as I thought it was gonna be, and it was a lot better than I thought it was gonna be. In Omaha, there's, there's some positive trade offs, and I thought I was gonna be traveling the world and stuff like that, but there was an opportunity to finish my degree and make some money and get some experience in real estate. So, um, y'all's gotta weigh out your, your opportunities. How, how can I make the most productive use, use my time most productively while I'm here. Um. Because it wa Omaha wasn't that condemning to me when I was there. I, I enjoyed, I learned a lot for sure. Talk about what is m and a or mergers and acquisitions, how'd you get into it? Um, what, what's your typical day look like? Who do you just kind of unpack all of that? So basically, um, it's how, it's how. Millionaires become billionaires in house business owners retire. So it can sound very predatory, but you know, small business failure rate is really high. Um, second generation. So I mean, we just, we just put options out there and let people know they have options. Um, we got, it's an investment banking firm, so we set up private auctions for businesses more than a standard broker. Uh, more offers than a standard broker could bring them. So where a broker will bring you one offer and there's no leverage there, uh, an investment banking firm will bring you, you know, a dozen offers, 24 offers, and there's a lot more leverage in that. And a lot of the buyers are cash buyers. Um, there's different loans that are going away too, and I'm just starting to get into this and learn it. It's, it's really interesting to me. Um, that's how I make, you know, a hundred and 107. I actually broke the record. I did over 300 calls in a day with six hours talk time, so. Trying to figure this thing out. Um, a lot of people look down on cold calling, but if you can get a $20 million business owner to a, attend a meeting, basically a full day sales pitch, um, kind of what it is, but, um, I mean, that takes some skill and everyone that I work at with, you know, is super talented, decades of experience and there's no way to really betray each other in this job. So everybody's helping everyone. You have leads as assign unlimited leads, and you just, you just rip 'em all day, ripping phone call and dealing with rejection all day. And at first. You know, not everybody are. Do you guys do okay with rejecting people telling you to screw up? I, I'm, I'm not the best cold caller. Actually, we had a call with our, our business coach today about it, and he's like, you know, you just, you just gotta. Do it, it's gonna suck. But that, so for m and a, is there, is there a typical deal size where it falls into that investment banking realm? Or is it like, you know, the sub 5 million ebitda, you're probably gonna go to a broker and then, you know, above that you'll find an m and a advisor. Yeah. Um, so we work with lower middle market and, uh, private middle market. One to 25 million is pretty much our bread and butter there. Um, and ideally it's to grow and grow and sell. Um, you know, for our metrics, we look for three or more employees for transferable value, and then a million, a million up growth revenue is, is kind of what, what we do, what I do, the form, what I use in my role, um, to pitch all day. So. I dunno if that that answers your question, but Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. So you said one to 25 million gross revenue. Yeah, that's what, that's what we look at and, and right now, like the trades are super hot logistics companies. Um. Like I said, HVAC huge. It's funny, everybody wants to break their babies out. He was talking about his transmission, so he's, well, I don't know what he was talking about, what vehicle was transmission, but was acting up. But he has a small transportation company and then I bought a plumbing company. So it's, that's where our, uh, yeah, our focus is as well. I, I completely agree with you that that's the hot thing. So Sorry, I interrupted. No, no, you're not interrupting at all. It's, that's how millionaires become billionaires. They buy businesses. It's, it's kind of awesome. Um, and I'm just stepping in my toe into a new thing, um, learning a lot every day. And, and it goes, you were talking about the Dunning Kruger effect. That's, that's really interesting to me because I will talk to people that know a lot more than me all the time and. You gotta, you gotta know when to, when to, uh, you know, you can't try to outshine that. And sometimes it just turns into a lesson. Um, but, um, I've always got my ears stay in my lane. That's something Sergeant Botts told me. It was like, stay in your lane high. It seems, it seems like you took a lot of, uh, lessons or whatever from the military and kind of transitioned that over what's. What has transitioned over? 'cause I, I mean, military and business is two different languages, but I think there's a lot of similarities there at the same time. What, what has worked for you? I think military people, uh, the military bearing, uh, is sort of a poker face and you shouldn't let everyone see your hand. Um, also be honest, just be truthful with what you know. Um, don't lie it, you're just digging yourself a hole. Um, it's as cliche as it sounds. Just speak your truth of, of what you know, and, um, everything will work out. It just works out. Um, staying in your lane. Speaking the truth, having a good poker face, I don't show weakness either. You know, it's, um, I don't know. That's, that's my big thing from the military 'cause. I felt like it was kinda like, uh, working, it's kinda like a locker room. I don't know. It's very male dominated. The environment we were working in, um, it taught me, taught me how to be a man. 'cause I was, you know, wet behind the ears. Very new small town and you have people from different backgrounds, every single race, you know. Um, I grew up in small town Wisconsin, so. It was, that was the most diverse environment I've ever seen in my life. And everyone is on the same page trying to do the same mission. Absolutely loved that about it. Yeah, I would say if society would be a lot better off if, uh. We all took that from the military. So Tina, I know you're itching for a question. Well, I wanted dig deeper into the Dunning Kruger effect and, and what has been your experience with that, especially talking to people that are ultra wealthy? Well, um, you run into a lot of not qualified people and they're usually act like they know the most, even though they're not. Necessarily making the most. So, and I found, you know, even when I worked at Charles Schwab, I can see these people's accounts 25 million in their account, and they are the nicest, willing to listen people ever. So just putting his, putting aside the ego and always being able to listen and learn that, that is something I, a huge takeaway. Um, and I think goes along with, uh, the Dunning Kruger effect. Um, a lot of people who are overconfident just usually don't have a lot to add, you know? Um, if I, I've always changed my mind with more information. I'm like, I don't get too set on political opinion. I mean, I have a basis of morality and everything, but with more information things, things can change. Um, that's what I don't try to change anyone else's mind either, you know? Damn. And we, we see that a lot in the, the real estate investing space. Like I, now that I'm working with portfolio sizes that are a lot larger, I'm, I'm experiencing some of that too. And I'll talk to someone who has 30, 40 million in real estate and that they own on their own, and they're, well, what do you think about this? What, what if I did that? And they're gonna take that information and do what they want, but just that validation of having a conversation. Versus the guy who flipped a property one time and now is selling a course on how to make money in real estate. It's, you know, it's, I think seeing the, the transition, I, I definitely wanna be more like the people, um mm-hmm. That are just avid learners, like always taking in that information. So it's cool you say that. Yeah, I, that's what I live by. Just putting the ego aside and just listening. 'cause there's a piece of the puzzle. This person. Probably figured out that, that I could use whether they're, you know, seem dumb or smart. You, you can't always judge people by the way they sound or the way they talk. I mean, just from p like I said, working at Schwab, $25 million guy, nicest dude, ever guy with. You know, barely anything, just knows everything. So correlation not always causation in mm-hmm. In a lot of cases, so. Well, and, and I think one of the big lessons in the military is, you know, judging book by its covers. You know, when, when everyone's in the same uniform, you have no idea what their background is. And I, I learned so much about people, just human behaviors being in basic training. And I mean, it's drastic how, how different the cultures are when you put 'em all in one barracks and you get the, the melting pot. Oh yeah. So that's, that was humbling in itself. Um, being in the barracks with, with a bunch of, you know, 18 year olds. Underage drinking and stuff like that. And I'm just like staying apart from that, doing my own thing. So a lot of humbling experiences, that's for sure. But that's where you learn, you know? Yeah. Well, and, and I mean, the 28-year-old in, in basic training was the old man. And now being on the other side of that, I'm like, gosh, I could not live in the barracks with a bunch of 18-year-old kids. I always felt bad for the older people that, uh. I had to stay in, you know, 20, even 23, 24 years. There's such a difference in maturity level. No. And they just raised the min, the, uh, maximum enlistment age. There is none now. No, it's up. I think it's up to 44 or something. Uh, I didn't think there was one. Oh, what, uh, I, I know you said it's a lot of cold calling and stuff, but what does the, what's the sales pitch? So you cold call, you get an all day meeting with somebody. What does that sales pitch look like? Yeah, it's, uh, I don't know, it's kind of proprietary information, but the name. So, um, yeah, I mean we both had a TS scis were paid to keep secrets, you and I. So, um, yeah. But the name of it came basically intrigue, you know, um, and. It's, you know, um, trying to get 'em to an all day meeting for, for the real pitch, you know, 30 year vets in there, um, in the m and a industry. So, um, yeah, it's, it's the hardest platform to come from and, and bring people in and, um, I'm pretty proud that I'm able to do that. You know, big, you know, private middle market business owners coming in. Over a phone call. Have you guys ever like picked up the phone somewhere over a phone call? It's crazy. It's crazy to me. But you know, the company set up a really good platform. How do you find these people? You said it's, uh, endless. Uh. Um, like you, how do you get to the decision maker, I guess? So you got a company doing five, $10 million. This is just me trying to steal your, your playbook, but yeah, how, how do you get to that decision maker? Um, so I, I had, I dig a, I'll give you kind of like, um, basically if you ever take a government loan or anything like that. You know, like you took a VA mortgage, right? At some point they share your information. Um, so all these, all these businesses, at some point they took some sort of government loan. Um, and I, I don't know if that's super ethical, how they get that information. It's not my company that's just doing it, it's just how leads are generated. They, you ever, you know, after you got your VA loan, you noticed you got a million more, um, pamphlets in the mail and phone calls, right? They're sharing our information. I don't know who's making money from it or what, but pretty sure that's how they get the information. Just someone's, someone's making money off of that. I could be, I could be wrong. I don't know. But as I understand it, that that's how they get a lot of these companies get their leads. Well, and you, and you said that you're primarily trying to target minimum three employees and revenue goals. Yeah. For transferable value. Yeah. So what, what other type of infrastructure would you wanna see a business have to see if they're, I mean, to that they're viable to even work with. Yeah, it's like, um, it's like a grow to sell model. So when a business owner wants, when you guys bought, when you bought a business, you didn't wanna be the guy running it, you wanted a turnkey. So you need to have transferable value there. Right. And there's, there's a million ways to, to, um, you know, sometimes the, the seller can stay on for a while, or seller can sell a business without anyone ever knowing that he sold the business. You know, remove that liability and, and have a strategic partner help him. Um, there's a lot of good stories of that, but there's a a million ways to do that. Um, and there's ton of negotiation and, um, but I mean, I just work on the front side, creating the intrigue. Um, and that's, that's kind of how I got. That's the start in this dipping my toe in it, you know, and I'm, like I said, I'm still learning. I don't know everything about it. Don't know if I should be an authority on it, but that's how I understand it. And you, you said that you got into this by, I mean, you had a degree. You, you mentioned a couple times your degree, but that's not what got you into this. It was a networking. Whatever, a connection through, uh, another network. Mm-hmm. Is that how you see most people get into this type of business? Um, let me think. I mean, any sort of job. I have a friend out here he's working for, you know, flock. You ever heard of that? Mm-hmm. He just dated, dated a girl that worked there and didn't end up working out, but. This guy, you can actually look him up. He's, uh, on tiktoks. He's actually viral. He is a bipolar guy. Loving Life is his TikTok name. And, um, the guy was actually, he was, uh, he was actually, and all of his information's out there. I'm gonna get in the shade a little bit here. Um, he was actually working in the financial industry for a while and, um, he ended up getting into this. It's, it's a public. This scam with, um, I call 'em the, the Wolf of Cream Street. There's like this big scam that went on where they were doing, um, like anti-aging creams to, um, actually military people. And somehow he got, he was in it, involved in it, but, um, he ended up failing one of his background report. He's a good guy. He's a Christian. I know him. He's. You know, medically regulated and everything. He actually lived with me for, for a period of time, rented one of my rooms. Sounds insane. I know. But, um, yeah, I mean, he paid rent every month. I got a four bedroom house, so I'm always trying to make the best of things and he is one of my best friends and I trust him. Um, he just, and he's a, he's an example of like a redemption in my mind where, you know, he was bipolar. He did a bunch of crazy stuff. Um, he had a court case pending for like 10 years. Um, and, uh, his following's huge now, but, um, yeah, he ended up, um, losing his, you know, quarter million a year job, which isn't that uncommon out here. And, uh, starting from scratch and billing a TikTok following. And now, now he does like consulting, mental health consulting. So there's, there's always an opportunity, you know. Is that how he makes his money now? Is TikTok or is that just uh. And cold calling. But he actually, he was making enough where, with his consulting, where he could just do that. But his video, uh, his video of viewership went down because he had too much free time. So the scarcity of time with, with the cold calling, um, actually helps his, helps his viewership and everything like that. Um, it's, it's kind of crazy. It's kinda like if you do something you don't wanna do long enough, you figure, you figure out what you wanna do. Kinda like, uh, calm nav in the air Force, you know? Oh, that's kidding. Yeah. The whole social media thing and making money. I was, my sister got married a couple weeks ago and talking to this girl at the wedding and she, she's a nurse by trade. She does, so she does traveling nursing. She said, I make twice as much doing TikTok than I do as a traveling nurse. And I was just like, holy cow. Like a traveling nurse is like one and a half times a nurse, and then now she's doing twice that. Mm-hmm. So I don't, you know, she's making probably a couple hundred just doing tiktoks or something like that. But it's great. I mean, I've talked to business owners that make 12 million a year just from a clothing line, from a TikTok that blew up. You know, it's not an uncommon story. Everything's so, you know, decentralized nowadays where anyone with a platform that's interesting to look at or listen to, um, can make a ton of money. So it's definitely a great opportunity. Good, good time to be. And I think Tanner's a TikTok song, entrepreneurship not about Star, but the, um, consumer. Yeah. Well. I, I think that what a lot of people have mastered with these platforms is just the ability to grab attention. And I, I've, I've been wondering if eventually these people are gonna start selling their platforms because they've become so good at it. Mm-hmm. I don't know what that would look like, but like you said, uh, use the example earlier that a business owner could sell their business and still stay in the business. You would never notice there's a difference. I see that happening with a lot of these TikTok platforms and YouTube channels and stuff. If someone sells the rights to all their stuff and they just keep working it, then become a salaried employee, like there might be an exit opportunity there. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. I could totally see that. But um, maybe, maybe you're the guy that start calling cold, calling all these influencers. Maybe they start Well, they are the business buying, uh, buying up influencers. They are the business though. So you're buying a person. So maybe it's like a record deal or something like that. Yeah. Well, as long as they have three uh, employees. Is that right? As long as they have three employees done. Uh, maybe, maybe. I don't know. But that whole platform depends on them. I don't know how, I don't know. It's a good idea though. I, I got a question about the three employees. Why? Is there some magic number about three employees or what's the I I would just be scared that everybody would walk out with the, uh, with the, uh, owner at three employees. I don't, I'm not sure why they set up that metric, but like I said, there's gotta be some form. There's, I've met CNC guys that buy and sell CNC machines, like very niche market hope. And they're pulling in 6 million on their own and they just, 'cause the new model now is everybody has contractors do everything. Then you don't have to pay any benefits or anything like that. But if you're relying on contractors, um, that's not necessarily a good thing. People wanna buy a business turnkey. Um, so, um, I've met, you know, single people selling CNC machines, reselling 'em. They make $6 million a year just doing that by themself hiring contractors. So it's, but it's not transferrable. 'cause they are the business, they have all the connections. Um, you can't buy a person. You want something that's turnkey. So that's, as I understand it, sense. So, so it kinda sounds like a litmus test is like if you can take a vacation. Your business is still running, then you have something sellable. Is, that is a good rule of thumb. Yeah. A good test of the health of your business is if you can put your cell phone in a safe for two weeks and it runs on its own, that's, that's typically what we say. Um, if that makes sense. But yeah, they, they want something turnkey. They don't, they want, don't wanna buy a person, you know. I think I closed. What do You don't want to buy a job. They wanna buy a business there. That's what say, Hey, I'm right there board with you. What do you see the, do you see things in the business buying standpoint getting easier or harder? It seems like, I mean, I just bought a business a year ago, so mm-hmm. Obviously, I, I'm jumping in the game and I'm, I've actually bought two plumbing companies in the last year. You know, trying to get an HVAC as well and bring both of those together. Do you see more people doing things like that? Do you, I, I don't think it's as hard as people think it is. So do you think more people are getting into that or should more people get into that? Uh, it really, really depends on, on what you want to do. I mean, you could join a pool of buyers and scope out businesses. Um, you go to deal force. Um, that's our app. But, um, I mean, there's certain loans that come and go, like, I don't know if you use an SVA loan. I don't really work on that side of things. But Did, did you buy the business outright or did you use a loan to buy it or, yeah, so I, well, the business, it, it was through a loan. I didn't pay cash for it. We'll, we'll go there. Yeah. Oh, okay. That's, that's interesting. And some of those loans go away. Um, they, they come back and interest rates go up and down. So it really depends on the person, I guess, and what the market's doing. So I was able, it came with the real estate. Mm-hmm. And so I was able to leverage the real estate portion quite a bit. So that did help. Oh, very cool. Which I'm, I'm a fan of. I know. I've seen so many different business models. I mean, McDonald's. People argue that they're, they're not a hamburger company, they're a real estate company. They just happen to sell hamburgers. Mm-hmm. Uh, but then there's other people. What's the, the golf place, uh, in town? The, uh, top golf. So top golf has a completely different philosophy. They go in, they buy the land, they build it. They salvage the business, they put a, a lease in place, and then they sell the building and then they take that capital and go use it for the next one. So their, their motto is to get more, um, more brick and mortars and less real estate. So there's a whole bunch of different ways to do things, but I, I like the real estate aspect of it. Yeah. Kind of mixed deal there. That's pretty cool. Yeah. You know, I heard, I heard a story yesterday about mattress firms. There's all these cons, conspiracies about them being, you know, front cartels and all that stuff. Well, they, they said basically these, these mattress companies are coming into, uh, really high development areas and they rent just a box because they don't need any build out. Like it's very low cost for developers to, to put a mattress store in, and then they lock 'em into really long-term leases. And those are usually transferrable. They'll sublet 'em and you know, now they control a really high traffic area. So I, I think it's genius. And, um, I mean, as a real estate guy, that was the whole reason for getting into business is so that I can buy more real estate. And so I'm Oh, that's awesome. I'm taking the, the things that you're saying. 'cause I mean, he's, he bought a business that had full, you know, full staff of employees. I had one employee when I bought it. And went through probably eight in the last, not even a year that I've owned the business. So now it's just getting more systems and operating stuff like that. But what do, what do you think? Is just from your experience in the, in the m and a side, what misconceptions do you think are out there for small business buying? You? You asked the wrong guy. We're on the front end. I'm the first touch on this, so I do not want speak on outside my scope. I mean, you guys are. In the weeds with this. It's, I think that's pretty awesome. I think I could probably learn more ways, so I'll ask it a different way in some ways. What? Yeah. When you cold call all these people, what objections do you get? Uh, the big one is, um, I'm gonna turn it over to my family. You know, and that's, that's a tough one. Um, but it's like, you know, small business failure rate is super high for second generation. I'm working with. Another one is I'm working with the broker. Um, an investment banking firm can bring you way more offers on the table than any broker can. It's not limiting you logistically. Um, it's another one not right now. Well, it's like you're gonna exit, you know, the three ds, death, divorce, duress. Um, they can change things really fast. So it's always good to have an exit strategy for four to seven years out, just in case, uh, I really just in case, you know, something happens. So that's, that's kind of, so, so what you're saying is typically people will wait to talk to an m and a firm till they're ready to sell. When you, you're saying that it would be probably be smarter to talk to them early on so they can help you pave the path. Yeah, I mean, you definitely don't want know what the market's doing. You don't want to sell in a dip. Um, um, what else? Um, yeah, polishing up a car. You know, when, when you go to sell, you want it to be in vulnerable, you don't want to get nickeled and down, down, you know, 90% of deals fall through the first time, first go around. They'll try to. Lower your price. So an offer outta nowhere should be be very weary of that. And when you step out, you wanna leave in a position of power. So. Um, that's, that's pretty important. Um, yeah. One thing I've noticed with small businesses is their bookkeeping is absolutely atrocious. Mm-hmm. And so if you're looking to sell in the next 2, 3, 4 years, like most banks want a couple years of good, clean financial data, if Right. You're gonna be able to, uh, get a loan on it. And that was kind of the problem that I alluded to earlier with us, which plumbing company I bought. And so if you want to sell at a premium, you need good clean data. To be able to paint that story. And most of the times, bookkeeping is the last thing that a small business owner have. Mm-hmm. Yeah. One, one line item of accounting can cost you hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars. So there's a whole due diligence process, outside set of eyes looking at that, going through it with a fine tooth comb so the buyer can't nickel and dime you down. Um. Because like I said, 90% of the deals the first time they fall through, so that's something we really touch on, harp on a lot. Being ready. Yeah. I, uh. You, you keep mentioning due diligence. That's like my Achilles heel when it comes to this stuff. I hate, I like finding the deals. I like underwriting, 'em, negotiating. I hate going through the due diligence. And what's your asset list look like? And the things the bank cares the most about is the things I hate the most. So what, uh, have you gone full cycle with the deal since you've been doing this? Have you. Done a cold call. Yeah. Sat down on everything and then go through the purchasing. To be honest, no. I'm the first touch. Um, the, the name of the game is intrigue and like I said, I'm stepping into a brand new career field, so it's very exciting to me and I'm learning a lot. So, um, but. Yeah. So it's, it's the first touch and it's all learning and just informing people. Uh, the new sales model is pretty much just teaching. So I don't know if you've read, um, uh, what's the book? There's a couple of really good books out there. Uh, the Challenger Sales a good one. Just, just for psychology, 'cause sales, it's a lot of psychology, you know. Just understanding what people want to hear. And um, but um, yeah, it's, it's really interesting to me. But no, I haven't done full cycle. It's, it's like I go to the, the big boy pitch and I, I step out, but it's cool that I can, you know, but I can do what I can do and get, get people to go and stuff from the lowest platform or phone call. I mean, do you guys follow like Don Pena or anything? The guy was like, I murdered a bear. I killed a bear. The the white-haired guy, the old dude I know. Yeah, I've, I've seen some of his stuff. Some of it, yeah. He's like, it's out there. Is he British or Scottish or something like that? I don't know. Something like that. He's, he reminds me of Anthony Hopkins off the edge, but he was like, if you wanna be a millionaire, start cold calling. Do 2000 cold calls. And it's like. This is just a leg of, of information that I, that I wanna learn a lot more, a lot more about learning people, you know, uh, learning sales. So it's, it's really interesting to me. Did, did they send you to some lack of a better school or, um, term school for cold calling or they just handed you something and said, here you go? Uh, a lot of, so we do have a script, but there's a lot of tribal knowledge involved. Um, like, like the scribes in a comment of this secret set of notes that just work, you know, so. There's a, it's script plus you, so you gotta put a lot of your own personality in there as well. So, um, it's cold calling, but you gotta be warm too. Getting through gatekeepers and stuff like that. It's, it's really interesting stuff. Getting through what jc Oh, getting through gatekeepers. Uh, gatekeepers are, are like the first touch when, like the front desk person that says you can talk to the big man or not the decision maker. So. That's always really fun. Hmm. What, uh. You, me, you mentioned one book, but you're, you're trying to think of another one. What, what books have or what, what has helped you, even if it's not books or whatever, what has helped you? So actually, uh, the Challenger sales really good. And that goes through like, just starting out in sales and then it goes up into management as well. Um, not there yet, but, um, there's also, uh, eat What You Kill is a good one. When I was door knocking, I sold solar for a while. So that, that is a cult of an industry. I don't know if you've ever talked to door knockers, but, um, basically I'm just trying to cut my teeth really, really fast and get a lot of reps in. Um, 'cause it is a career change. So I, I did the door knocking, now I'm doing the cold call. So a lot of people say, just wait for break, big break. So there's a ton of opportunity out here in Austin. I think I'm in the, I'm exactly where I need to be right now. So, yeah, I heard if you're gonna hire a solar guy, you need to just go to Utah and get a Mormon and that, that's, you don't even need to train 'em. They're like, as long as they hop back from their mission, they're good. I, uh, I wish I, I actually grew up Mormon, so What's that? I actually grew up Mormon, so that's kind of funny. I did you, I didn't know that. So did you go on a mission. No. Oh, I want it on the alert mission, but not a, just kidding. What? Uh, you might know this, but there's somebody, it's a book or something like that, but he talked about he was cold caller and he had two jars on his desk. And every day he, he had paperclips on 'em, and he had to take one paper clip for every phone call that he made, and he moved it over to the other jar, and then he couldn't go home for the day until all the paperclips were from one jar to the other, and the next day he come back in and move 'em. Do you have anything like that that you. Do if you want to get ahold of Yeah, it's, so you take notes how many people you talk to. You want to get a hold of 15 owners a day. So you get past the gatekeeper, talk to 15 owners and ideally four qualified people. So they call those ad bats. So those are kind of our next metrics that we, we chase. Um, and it. You gotta make a game out of it. You gotta game it because it's grueling. But it's like, I dunno if you ever heard of muskie fishing, but fish of 10,000 casts, which I've caught one of those before. So you'll be out there for weeks on end. Sometimes. I know you'll have dry spells and out of your lowest point. That's, that's usually when things start happening, when you, when you try something different or tweak something. Um, it's where you, where you find a different part of yourself and, and it's where you find your voice too, on the phones, incorporate your personality and everything that works. So, um, yeah, definitely have to game it just piece by piece. And it's brick by brick. It's keeping 'em on the phones, getting 'em qualified, getting them there. It's, there's, there's a lot to it. It's pretty grueling. Anyone that can, can cold call has a high level of resilience or door knocking, 'cause it's a lot of rejection every day. And you gotta be able to manage that. 'cause for me, like. It doesn't hit me during the day when it's happening, it's offset at the end of the day. We're like, whoa, what was that? You know what I mean? Um, just, just hits you in waves. You just gotta, you gotta ride the waves. 'cause you know, sales is kind of, it's pretty emotional. It's a lot like gambling or fishing or anything else like that. What are major similarities or differences between doing more of the corporate cold calling versus like, so you're selling solar, you're selling directly to consum consumer, whereas now it's more, I mean, it's B2B, B2B, um, it can be more professional, but sometimes people descend into their lowest forms and chew you out over the phone and it's like. Yeah, I always end it with, have a good day. I hope you have a, a blessed day. I think I caught you in a, in a bad mood. Just can't let it get to you. But they will say everything. Um, but I mean, they're right to, I just think you're, you're allowed to ask permission. Like, you know, if you ever, you're ever out, um, trying to meet, you know, a wife or a girlfriend, I feel like you're allowed to ask permission, but they're allowed to tell you to go away. And then if they tell you to go away, you just go away and keep on trucking. So basically you're saying it's just like dating. You just keep going. It's probably easier than dating, especially this day. Yeah. We'll, we'll turn this podcast into dating advice. Oh, gosh, yeah. KPI. So, yeah. What, what is next for you? So you've. Doing the cold calling, stuff like that. How do you move up in this? Is it just putting the reps or what's the, the career trajectory on that? Is it breaking out, doing your own thing? Is it just becoming, the Salty guide has been doing this for 30 years or what's, how, how does this career field work? Well, I feel like, uh, I don't know. I'm kind of being led by the unseen hand here, you know? Um, you know, I think God has a plan. I, I don't know what it is, but things happen for a reason and just try to make the best opportunity. Um, ideally, I don't want to be a cold caller forever. I don't think this is the destination. It's more of a continuum learning. Um, my day. I enjoy my day to day, though. I really like it. I feel like I'm learning every day. I'm engaged. Um, so a big break would be nice. I'm a lot of my best friends and mentors out here. They're, I'm in my mid thirties, they're in their forties. A lot of 'em are making, you know, quarter million and up. So, um. And going. They went through a lot of the same things I'm going through now. So ideally, um, a big break would be nice. Um, so continue to network and make the best outta my situation and keep moving forward. And. Just know that it's gonna get better. 'cause it, it has, it always just gets better from shoveling crap at the farm to working in a warehouse to, you know, doing com Nav in the Air Force. Now I work in a, in an office in nice area, very clean out here. I get to dress nice for, for once wear what I want. Wear nice clothes. Um, confidence is high. It's, it's, it's just really taking all the positive off it that I can, you know, while, while it's grueling, a lot of adversity, I enjoy it. You got anything or No? No. I, I appreciate you sharing this side with us. I mean, I, I don't know much about the m and a space, so, I mean, definitely insightful. Um, and I, I admire that you can stay positive through all this, and we talked mm-hmm. A lot about freedom on this. I think that that freedom from the negativity of cold calling is probably the, the most admirable part of the mm-hmm. The freedoms I've, I've learned from you. Mm-hmm. Sean, I, I got it. Yeah. What, what does freedom look like for you, other than being on the open road and adjoining your motorcycle? What, what, what's your lack of a better term? Financial career, ambition, freedom, look like. Yeah. Have, uh, freedom of location freedom, financial freedom, um, being around freedom to be around the people I want to be around, whether it's family or. Okay. Um, you know, friends, um, just not out in a corner, just options. I was trying to buy, buy more options in life and do what you want to do because, you know, being on the road for two weeks at a time, at, at some point it's isolating and condemning. So, um, yeah, you just gotta find, you know, something that's, it's more long lasting. Um. But I don't, I don't know if that answers your question, but freedom, location, time, finances, that's, that's what we all strive for, I think. Right. Hey, I agree with you. It's not my, it's not my question. It's your answer. So, yeah. But, uh, that's my, that's my ultimate call. Yeah. Well, I appreciate it, Sean. I know you need to get back to Absolutely. Stop calling and, uh, I, I appreciate you catching up with you. Like I said, we haven't talked chatting in the last couple years, so, uh. Yeah, I need to get down to Austin and uh, check it out one day. I appreciate it. Anytime, man. Anytime. It was nice to meet you both. Sorry. Nice to meet you too. Alright, see ya. See you later guys.