She Diaries

Alexandra Wyman's Story: Grieving a Spouse, Mental Health, and Finding Joy Again

• Bright Sky House • Season 1 • Episode 2

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In this deeply human conversation, Alexandra Wyman shares her path through bereavement and what it truly means to grieve a spouse while navigating motherhood. She opens up about the stigma of loss, societal pressures on widows, and how she discovered stories of resilience in even the smallest acts of connection.

Alexandra emphasizes the critical role of mental health support, setting boundaries, and planning ahead to lighten the load for those left behind. Her honest reflections light the way for others — this episode is a testament to suicide prevention, showing how brave storytelling and supportive communities can spark healing, help people start over, and rediscover joy.

Content warning

This podcast includes real stories of suicide loss. Some episodes may reference the method of suicide and include emotionally intense or uncomfortable descriptions. We understand how sensitive this content is, and we carefully edit each episode to honor and respect both our guests and listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling, please call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for free, 24/7 support. Please take care while listening—pause if you need to. You are not alone.

Takeaways

  • Understanding what it means to grieve a spouse amid societal expectations
  • Recognizing and combating the stigma around widowhood and mental health
  • The indispensable role of mental health support and honest boundaries
  • Finding stories of resilience through community and connection
  • How planning ahead (e.g., writing a will) eases future emotional burdens
  • The healing power of starting over and rediscovering joy after loss
  • Sharing lived experience as a form of suicide prevention

See photos of Alexandra and Shawn on on our episode blog post.

About She Diaries

In She Diaries, women who have lost their husbands to suicide bravely share their stories of strength while navigating the unimaginable journey of widowhood. Through candid interviews, the podcast explores their lives before the tragedy, moments that changed everything, the web of grief, and the hard-earned lessons of overcoming deep loss. These powerful stories shed light on the strength and courage it takes to move

Mental Health Resources

  • 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 for free, 24/7, confidential support for mental health crises, suicidal thoughts, or emotional distress.
  • Find a Therapist: Search for licensed therapists near you through directories like Psychology Today, TherapyDen, or Mental Health Match.
  • Join a Support Group: Connect with others through peer-led or professionally facilitated support groups via NAMI or GriefShare.

Stay Connected with She Diaries

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YouTube: Bright Sky House Official
LinkedIn: Bright Sky House

If you have questions or would like to follow-up with any of our guests, reach out to Hello@BrightSkyHouse.com.

She Diaries is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hi Alexandra, it's so good to see you and have you here on She Diaries. How are you doing today?&A. I am doing so well and thank you so much for this opportunity. I'm really looking forward to our conversation today. That's awesome. Tell our listeners a little bit about yourself. Yeah, well, my day job is as a pediatric occupational therapist, and I'm also a mom to a five and a half year old. And then I also have this opportunity like today to be able to chat about the loss of my husband by suicide. And so after he passed, I decided that I wanted to spend more time finding meaning and purpose where I could help others navigate grief. Let's dive in. Tell me a little bit about Sean and how you guys met and your relationship. Yeah, we had a very whirlwind romance. At the time that we met, I was over dating. I had this checklist that I thought, okay, this is what a successful life looks like. You go to college, you meet a partner, you get married, you buy a house, you have your kids, your 4.2 dogs, and your white picket fence. And so that was kind of what I had attached to. And that did not happen to me in the timeline that I was told it needed to. So when I met Sean, I was kind of just over dating and I actually just before, think about two months before I met him, I got this little ping that said, you know, try this online dating site. And I was like, I'm so tired of dating. But I did it. And so he was the second date I went on and I was the last one for him because he was like, I'm done trying this dating thing too. And we just hit it off. We felt like we had a very very deep soul connection. Just understood each other. We really just, we used to joke that we were the male female version of each other and it just fit, we fit together really well. And so we were engaged very quickly and eight months after we met, we were married and we had just purchased a house together. And then about 10 months after, um, we met is when I found out I was pregnant. So, I mean, all of those things, check, check, check. It's like, yes, we got this. We got our house. We've got our family growing and, um, there wasn't anything really hidden about him. I knew that he had a tough childhood. He did have some, quite a bit of some traumatic experiences in his childhood. And these were things that he just couldn't outrun. And we tried so many different things to try and help him manage his stress. And that was a big part of our marriage is figuring out how do you handle having a child. We both had careers and we've got this house and all these social stressors, I guess, just in regards to who has what role in the family. It was a lot. It was a lot to manage. And I don't think there's any preparation for that until you're in it. So yeah, we were trying all sorts of things. And then of course COVID hit and that added even more stress to things. While I knew of some of the struggles he was having, I didn't know to what extent those struggles were. I will say there weren't any signs, there was nothing that I could go back to and be like, oh, I should have done this or that. mean, of course there always should and things we want to change. There was nothing directly related to him dying by suicide. so, yeah, he... One Saturday morning, the night before he had been hanging out with his friends at a birthday party. I stayed home with our son because he even to this day has never been the greatest with bedtime. He's a really good sleeper once he falls asleep, but boy, he likes to stay up a little later. So Sean went and hung out with his friends and the next day he kind of had an argument over it because he stayed out all night. And I was just like, what are you like? What is happening? What is happening? And then he went missing for about six hours. And the end of finding him was he had died by suicide. Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing the story and sharing this with everybody. Let's, um, I wanted to ask really quick when you talked about, cause I feel like all of us, had the same experience growing up where it's like, okay, I'm going to go to college. I'm going to get married. Like I had the same checklist. I feel like our society says, okay, once you check these boxes, you're going to be happy and you're living that fulfilled life that, that everyone says is the goal to have. But once you have a kid and once you are in the thick of it with full-time work and trying to figure out communication strategies and managing stress as a couple, it's a whole other world. What types of things were you guys trying to manage that and to get to continue improving, I suppose? Yeah, so we were, I was trying to find time for Sean to go exercise and run. He liked running, sometimes liked running, but he always felt better after he ran. He was a drummer, so I got him a session here locally in Denver where he could just go jam, and I was like, you can do that after work. It was so close to his work. Because it was during COVID, the social piece really impacted him. So we did an online trivia with some friends and we'd all take turns coming up with questions and then we'd jump online and do that. He really struggled with the idea of therapy. Something I really understood more after his death was just that people can understand or know that there are resources. They can know that there are books, podcasts, therapy. There's all sorts of these things. But if you don't believe those things will work, for you, then it's harder to engage in them. And that was Sean's experience. He felt broken to an extent that he didn't believe that any sort of therapy could ever fix him. No amount of talking to someone. And he also grew up in a situation, and also very familiar with my own childhood, of we just, don't necessarily talk about it with other people. And sometimes we just sweep things under the rug and somehow we think that they'll go away or you just pick yourself up by the bootstraps. So. There was a lot of this conflict for him where I think he knew somewhere that he needed help but didn't know how to access help because he didn't believe any of it would help or actually work. So we tried to figure out ways to give him that social outlet that he needed. But there was just, he was considered, he was a mechanic, he worked on high-end European cars and so he was considered an essential employee. So while everyone else is at home, he was still having to go into work. And I think that also added some additional stress. Luckily we did pod up with family, but that was hard because it was mostly my family. And so I was used to their antics and sometimes even that was even more stressful for him. So really I think when it comes to reviewing or reflecting on what was going on for Sean or my understanding, is I think it was a combination of just stress that continued to compound without really having healthy coping skills to really work through and manage that stress. That makes complete sense. When he passed away and tell me what it was like when you got the news and when you heard what happened. Sure, so as I mentioned, he went missing for about six hours and then was just me trying to get in touch with him, trying to get in touch with the friends he was with before. I was working with two different sheriff's departments because I had some information that he had gone into a different county. Essentially what ended up happening is he sent some goodbye texts, which we didn't really fully recognize. I mean I got a text pretty early on and knew, was like, I think this is what's happening. But he sent some goodbye texts. He also put his note on Facebook. So that started a whole thing where people started calling me and showing up at my house, like, where is he, what are you doing? And so that was, I was like, thanks, of all places. Well, and you're in the middle of COVID, so everyone's at home, like Facebook, social media, that's the place where everyone's at right now to even try to be social. Yes, and you know, it's interesting because people are like, well, are you doing anything? Well, of course, you know, I've been living it for six hours. So yeah, I am trying to do something. There's only so much you can do, you know.

And then about 2:

15 is when I just suddenly like, I just felt that there was something that had changed in my life and I collapsed in my kitchen and was just screaming. And my mom and my sister were at my house at that time. My son was at my parents' house. He was being watched there. And I just was screaming and I said, he's gone. I just know he's gone. But I wasn't officially informed. Like no one could actually tell me that he was. I just somehow knew.

And then at 6:

30 that evening is when the sheriff's department actually finally found me and they delivered the news that indeed he had passed. And how did, when did they find them? Did a neighbor call or did someone alert the police or what transpired there? I was able to work with them. He died in the mountains in Colorado. So I was able to learn to what his car essentially they found his car. They couldn't locate him. What I suspect, I mean, I don't have the exact details, but my suspicion is that those who were looking for him heard him and they did attempt life-saving measures when they found him. It was just too late. And so they had to work on the two counties had to work on communicating with each other. had to make sure that they had the right individual before that they could let me know. And so there was a period of time where I just kept calling and they said they kept looking because they couldn't officially tell me that they had already found him. So the sheriff comes and knocks on your door. You finally get confirmation that your feelings are valid. This isn't a mistake. This isn't a, you are feeling validated, also I'm sure just this explosion of grief and my gosh, what are we going to do next happen? Can you describe some of your emotions kind of the next few days and what life looked like and support and the chaos of it all? Sure, chaos is a very good descriptor. I was pretty numb and in shock and I'll say my shock hung out for about four months. So in the immediacy it was very much a shock. I didn't even know who to call or how I was supposed to inform people. There were some people who knew what was happening obviously because of the note on Facebook. I mean it's not like he explicitly said I'm ending my life but it was clear what it was. And so my situation was a little different in the fact that on the night that he died, some people, some of his friends had come over to my parents' house, that's where I was staying that evening, and they decided to inform me, and it just kind of started, I'm trying to think of exactly how it went, but essentially they were informing me that they felt that I was at fault. They believed that had he been with his ex-wife, this wouldn't have happened and that I must have done something. And three days after Sean passed, I was informed that these friends and part of Sean's family were going to take legal action against me. It turned out that none of that could transpire because they didn't actually have any evidence of wrongdoing. They didn't have anything to show any negligence on my part. They wanted to... take me to court to challenge the legitimacy of our marriage, even though was, died, Sean died four days before our second wedding anniversary. They also wanted to figure out if there was a way that they could get custody of my son, and they wanted to see if there was a way that they could acquire my home. And so I'm sure if you're listening to this, like wait a second, how is this possible? They wanted to take the feelings that they had about the loss of Sean, which he was a very charismatic, like life of the party kind of guy, great sense of humor, much more than his death. Like he was an amazing, amazing person. And I now can sort of understand, although like the route that they went, I mean, they did try and do a whole social media campaign against me. There were events held without me being present. They essentially blocked me out of his memorial so I couldn't take part. I mean, I attended his memorial, but I wasn't allowed to take part in any of it. And so with all of this, you know, it was just for about eight months after Sean died, I wasn't really able to grieve because it was what is coming next. I never knew. I mean, I was in touch with the sheriff's department and had to figure out more security. I worked at a school where one of the friends their kids went and I had to move schools and they had to have extra security. I mean, it was a little intense. So I wasn't really able to start grieving until eight months later. And to think through of these individuals that they, in my opinion, wanted to take away everything they could of my life without taking away my life because they couldn't get Sean back. I mean, there was a comment made actually to me that it should have been me and not him. And so... That was really hard and I was basically just a shell of a person. I had so many different emotions and I was just basically just trying to keep my organs working so that I was actually breathing and alive without really having any sense of that there could be quality of life or any joy in the life again. And I had my son was one. So I had this one year old that I was trying to at that point it was everything was about him. How do I help him? Get him to where he needed to go and be. And then eventually when I could set really good boundaries with these individuals and find a good therapist, I was able to start working through my own grief. What, uh, when you talked about how he left a note on Facebook and he sent texts, can you describe some of the messages that he sent? Did he even give a clear answer as to what was going through his mind, his emotions at the time? Often it's not always a clear understanding to the answer of why, but what was his main, I guess, message to, to everybody? There, yeah, there, I don't know that we're ever gonna get the why. I think that's something that is, is there other than, you know, again, the speculation of what someone was going through and whatever emotional pain that they were experiencing. And that's truly what I believe for Sean is that his emotional pain, you couldn't see it. And I think that's why suicide is so shocking for so many, cause you can't see the pain. It's not like, someone with a physical disability or a disease that is physically being apparent. And so with his note, essentially he just said that there were things in his life he couldn't overcome and he wasn't able to work through some things. I, yeah, I mean, again, there was no inkling prior. Yes, like there were stressors, but for me where I was in my, like being his wife and and just where I was, I just, didn't think there was anything that we couldn't figure out a way to work through. And so, and I don't think that he planned it. I don't think that he was like, on this day... I think it was just a culmination of factors for that particular morning. And that's, that's what he decided would help him end his pain. Knowing what you know about your unique experience, a lot of times the advice through national suicide prevention organizations is asking people, do you have a plan? How would you do it? What is your thoughts on that approach if you think someone is going through a lot of mental health struggles? You know, I definitely agree that you need to ask the question point blank. You're not going to be putting the information or the idea into someone's head by asking them, because most likely they've already had those thoughts. So I do think if someone is at that late of a point where it's clear that they're having difficulties, then yes, ask the question and see if there can be that immediate support. I personally, and just in my own, process in my own journey, think that prevention starts earlier. I think prevention is something that we can do without having, before, I guess, before ever getting to a point of needing additional mental health support. We all have things that happen to us. We all have mental health needs. It's just, there's no one whose brain works great and perfectly. Everybody, yes, we have great brain health, but there's no one that that can go through life without struggling. And I'm a believer in connection and healthy coping skills. And when we can create that and work through our own stuff and whatever our own experiences have been that have contributed to how we function as adults and heal from past experiences that have hurt us, then we can teach others and kids how to do it. So that's kind of where I agree with that prevention side. I think current. prevention ideas are just really late. They're more reactionary versus how can we respond? And in my opinion to respond is to let's help kids, let's beef up those social emotional supports for kids in elementary school. How can we as adults work through our stuff in order to be able to guide our kids and let them know that whatever they're feeling or going through we can get through? I love that so much because it's very much proactive. It's before the problem exists. It's teaching those emotional skills and communication skills and those behavioral skills to recognize, hey, I have a problem and it's okay to raise my hand and ask for help. And there is help out there that will work. One thing you said earlier was Sean knew there was help, but his belief in that system and if it would help him, it sounds like it was on shaky ground. But if he knew that earlier, perhaps. We can never know, of course, but if anyone else is feeling like there isn't a place for them in the mental health discussion or someone to talk to, there always is space. There is always someone that can listen and can truly help. With the mental health side in mind, you're going through extreme grief. Half of the family, his side of the family is isolating you. How are you finding the strength to continue to move forward and what What did you do for yourself and what was your grief process like? Yeah, so I knew that I had to do something to get through this whole process because of my son. I'll also say that I'm an Aries, so I'm a let's take on a project and let's get through it. And so I was like, oh, all right, you're gonna hand me this grief thing? Cool, I'm gonna work through it. Let me blow through it and get on with life because I've got this kid I have to raise. So I very quickly learned that that is not how life time or grief really works. And I had to slow down quite a bit. And essentially when I first was able to really set boundaries and these boundaries ended up having to be physical. I basically had to tell these individuals that they could not have a relationship with me. They couldn't have relationship with my son. And they, I have not since then. But with my grief, really, it's just I ended up meeting a fantastic grief therapist. And he just helped me walk through the process. And at first, I didn't really understand how grief can compile or how if you don't really work through past grief, it's going to come up again. I didn't understand any of that. So he just really helped guide me while letting me have my own process. I'm still learning to let go of some of feelings where I wasn't always willing to let myself feel what was going on. So if I was in a meeting and I would just have this grief burst overwhelm me, I would take myself out of that meeting or be like, I can't do this right now and then try and find time later. And that was a big thing for me was ensuring that I always found a time to release whatever grief that I was feeling. I'm also a private griever. I figured that out through this process and that was something that didn't go over very well and I was criticized for because I wasn't crying enough around people. I didn't want to hug people. I mean, I still, I used to be a very huggy person and even we're at four and a half years and I'm still like, sometimes I'll hug, you know. So that was a big thing too, is to discover that I prefer to grieve in private and so I would set aside time to be able to do that. But the emotions are all over the place. I mean, I literally in 10 seconds could go from anger to sadness to I'm laughing to I'm crying back to anger. I mean it just it's unpredictable and there's no way of telling what feelings are going to come up or how and one strategy one day isn't going to work the next day. So I definitely feel that it's important to have kind of a toolbox with how many different strategies so that on a particular day you can just be like okay this worked once maybe it'll work again. Because you just never know. How long did it take for you to feel okay with the up and down roller coaster cycle? And know that this was okay. Was that with the help of the grief counselor? Was that through friends or someone in a support group that finally you were just around the right group where it's just, wow, I'm not alone. This is okay. So there's kind of two answers to that. First, it was really helpful that I found a local, well first it was virtual, but an in-person local suicide survivor support group. So being around individuals who just understood was very helpful. And I think through speaking with them, I did start to understand a little bit more that it's up and down, it's going to be like that. I will say I don't know that I've ever fully embraced that it's okay, only because it still hits sometimes. I'm like, oh, darn it, okay. I guess I need to sink into this and feel it. I think also though, what was helpful was when I got to a point where the hard days were getting fewer and fewer and I was having more good days. And so it still goes back and forth, but I was finding that when I could recognize, I just had two good days in a row and then work through the guilt and shame around that because I must be sad for the rest of my life. I can't find any joy. And so that kind of helped because understanding that I could start to have more good days helped me realize that the feelings do go up and down, but that at the end of the day, the light at the end of the tunnel for me was, I know I'll have another good day. And so knowing that initially, it just feels insurmountable. There's no, there's just no light at the end of the tunnel. I mean I had someone once and she could read auras and she was like, your light is so dim, it looks like it's going to go out. And I was like, I'm not surprised. And I saw the same person a few months later and she was like, Oh, there you are. And so understanding and knowing that, oh, I still have an opportunity to get to a good day helps me weather the up and down because I knew that it would assuage at some point. And I want to, you said something that I think is actually really powerful, um, where you said, man, I'm having a bad day. I think I, I, or however you said it, said, I have to just sit in and sit with those feelings. And I think that is something not to be missed because oftentimes, um, we want to run away from the fear, the anger, the grief, all of the negative feelings that make us feel uncomfortable. But I love that you just said you have to sit and you have to feel them. You have to understand them and feel them. Can you talk to me a little bit more about that process? Yeah, it's awful, it's horrible, but it's necessary. So grief doesn't, it's not just the emotional impact. It can impact your physical being, it can impact relationships, and if we don't move through it, and I've seen this happen to people. I've seen people who get stuck in their grief, and it literally eats away at their body. They start to have physical ailments, more things come up. They just, they lose relationships because it's hard for them to connect with people anymore. And I'll be honest, I don't remember when I first saw the glimpse of light through working through these feelings. But I do remember, and of course through the encouragement of my therapist who was like, I'm going to help you work through this. You have to work through it. And I was like, no, why? This is awful. But being able to just get those glimpses of light or joy really helped encourage me of, I can keep doing this. And also, I call it having an anchor. So as I mentioned, like my son was my anchor. I knew that I did not want this situation to dictate our lives. It would impact our lives, and it still does, and it will. But I didn't want it to dictate. I didn't want everything to be, oh, your dad died. Your husband died. That was my way of saying I have to do better so that I can do better by my son. But you have to be able to sink into those. I mean I journaled a lot, a lot to try and get out those feelings. Because if we hold on to things, it just builds up in our bodies. it really does start to make our bodies fall apart. And I just knew somehow that I had to really deal with the anger. And my anger wasn't towards Sean, it was more towards other people. And it was towards the situation I was left in. And somehow, like I know for me, working through and understanding that this was his choice and that his amount of pain that he was in was more than something I could ever understand. And by separating myself from him and his decision, I was able to accept it a little bit more on that particular day, I'll say. Some days I don't accept it and other days I'm much better. Well, and you have permission to feel however you feel and change your mind about how you feel and change perspectives, especially as you continue to learn and grow as we all do as we continue on. But dealing with how you feel and absorbing it, understanding it, and then also getting it out through journaling or a healthy activity. I hope everyone who is listening hears that it's okay to sit and be sad. It's okay to sit and feel the way that you feel. So you, you created a book and here is the quote that I found on your website, which is ForwardToJoy.com, you said, I decided to write a book I wish existed to help me get through such a tragedy and reach a place of peace and joy. What can anyone who is experiencing devastation, loss and grief, if they pick up your book, what can they hope to? learn from you through your experiences? Sure. So I found there's all sorts of information out there about the stages of grief. And what I found is that I didn't really have stages. I call it more phases of dealing with the aftermath of a loss. And so essentially I broke up my book into those three phases. And the reason why I kind of deviated from stages is because I think those are emotions we all feel. Those are all things and they come at any moment. You still have to work through them, but it's not linear. And I know that there are experts right now who don't claim that they're linear, but essentially I say there's the shock and awe. So there's the first phase of this is the you're in it to win it. Like it's the immediacy of whatever the loss is. You're in shock. You have to just manage life. You have, again, just Maslow's hierarchy, you are just trying to make sure that your body survives whatever is happening. And then I have the now what phase. And that's where you're kind of bridging two worlds. So you've got this massive amount of grief that you have to work through. And in addition to that, you have, you know, your life that has to keep going. And so, you know, unfortunately, work doesn't really stop for us. Life doesn't really stop for us. And so, you have to manage, the rest of the world moves on and they're like, everything's good. And you're like, no, everything is not great. I'm still devastated, but then I'm still trying to manage grief. And then the last phase, have this finding the collateral beauty. And that's really how can we start to zoom out and see that there is still joy left for us. There are still possibilities. Our life may be taking a different direction than we thought it would, as we mentioned, our checklist, you know, where's that? But it creates an opportunity to realize that we can get through whatever feelings we have. It does take work, but it is possible. I want to ask this because you brought up the checklist coming full circle a little bit. How do you now see life versus the checklist we're all taught to believe? What is your philosophy or vision for your life now? Yeah, so I think a successful life is really about who we are and who we're intended to be. And that's getting to our authentic selves and really getting grounded in what, who we were made to be. And part of that is to quiet some of the conditioning and work through some of the conditioning we got in our childhood. What society says, of course, with that checklist. And to say that those are things that you can still work toward, but they're not what create a successful, excuse me, let's try that one more time, successful life. And instead, the way I look at it is life, you know, there used to be that this checklist, at least for me, was that was what was predictable. This is what you went to, and I, you know, all right, follow it. But what I found in this whole experience is really life is not predictable at all. And you can have all those things on a checklist and still something's going to happen. Clearly I'm an example of that. I was like, yes, we have this. And then when my life exploded, I was like, wait a second, what happened? Like, how did I get cheated out of this? This is what I was told is what was supposed to happen. And so now I look at it as that we as individuals experiencing life we are what are predictable, our reactions. I wouldn't say reactions, our responses are what can be predictable. When we're aligned and truly who we're meant to be, then I think we respond to situations. We can work through our hurt. We can work through the experiences that have impacted us. And I usually say negatively impacted us. And we can heal all of that and become truly enlightened people. And to me, that's what the successful life looks like is how do we show up to work? How do we show up in our relationships and our friendships? And how can we take our hurts and not project those onto other people or to continue those in generational patterns. I think that's a fantastic answer. A hundred percent. No, I love it. I absolutely love it. It's not about getting things done or making like specific achievements. It's just showing up every day and being present and trying your best every day. what, what was, Oh no, but I, you gave me the words to summarize. What, does your support system look like now? Oh, I love this question because one of the things I do like to talk about is what that community looks like. And I am a believer that you can't get through grief without a community. The caveat to that is that the community you might think will have your back may not. And so I've even had to walk through this with my own family members where I'm like, oh, OK, I see the limit to where we can be, where you can support and then look for other people. So. The community I have now consists of people in my support group. I say that I like to collect friends who just get it. People don't have to necessarily explain what's going on and they just understand and they love me anyway. My community also includes my handyman. It also includes the person who comes and cleans my house and my neighbors who will let my son come over and hang and play with them. That's where it's different, because I think when tragedy hits, we tend to assume that family and friends are going to be there, and that's not always the case. And usually it's just a reflection over those individuals and their grief process, rather than a personalization of our own. So it takes some time. I think that was a big part of my grief, was I was just so sad. Like, wait, why can't we just come together and grieve the loss of this amazing person? Instead of pointing fingers and blaming and trying to go after money and all sorts of things. Grief really does make people do ugly things. So now my community is just the individuals who help me and my son thrive. That's well, and you mentioned, you know, people going after money. And I know this was something that you wanted to also share with anyone who was listening about the importance of setting up a will and making sure that at any point in life, any of us could walk across the street. I mean, mean, anything can happen. Tragedy strikes every single day. What can you do to prepare for those that you leave behind? Yes, please write it down. Nothing else. You don't necessarily have to go through a lawyer. You can have something notarized. Some banks will still do it. Just write it down. So many things could have been different if Sean had had a will. And at the time, I didn't even have one. It's just, again, people and let me back up. I have known other individuals who have had loss in their life not by suicide and similar responses. It's almost like people see it as an opportunistic time to go after things. Oh, you have a house, I'm gonna go after the house, I'm gonna go after the money anything, and it just clouds, clouds, clouds the grief. I also just think it's we in our society, try and get to the business way too soon. Way too soon in grief. We need more time to really grieve, but business has to be taken care of pretty quickly. But I do recommend just write it down. Have your wishes somewhere written down. Make it really explicit so that if someone does challenge it, at least you have something that can hopefully just stand for your rights because otherwise people are guessing. And I can say in my situation, it just became a battle of who knew Sean the best, who meant more to him, who was more important. It was so ugly that I just felt like it took away again. It just prolonged being able to grieve because there was all this fighting going on over what was best for him. And in my opinion, this is the whole point. So I do think it's really important to just have your wishes written down somewhere. Yeah, almost puts, if it's not written down, then everyone's focused on the stuff, not focused on the person, not focused on remembering who Sean was and the good times and the beauty of his life, whatever needs to happen to do that grief process. You're just focusing on stuff at this point. Yeah, and something I recognize, and again, not to go in a spiritual direction, but I will say for the people I know who didn't really have much of a spiritual life, they were definitely more about making sure they pitched through his things. And I offered an opportunity that was a whole nother story, but it did. It did become about what were those things and that if... they left him with me that somehow I would throw them out, I mean that was a whole big thing. If I got rid of anything it meant that I didn't care about him, I didn't love him. There was so much additional, the stories that we tell ourselves through this whole process. And so I did see that there were people who were asking for things or they would say I want something and I'd say awesome, he was not materialistic. What would you like that would be meaningful to you? And I could tell when people were not really, they just wanted something was because they didn't know and they didn't know him and they didn't, you know, there were certain things I was like, these are off limits because those are gonna stay with our family. But here, if you want, here are some other things you could have. And usually people didn't know him well enough to know what to ask for. And so it was just this need to hold on to him because of course it's like what he's not here. And something that I learned in grief therapy is that the relationship changes from one of a physical relationship in that that person is physically present to one of memory. And that one is still hard for me. So I'm like, no, I'm not ready for that. No. mean? It means that you have to work through that acceptance that the person's not coming back and being able to hold on to the experiences and the memories that we have. And that's what continues that relationship. And so part of that grief process is there still gets to be a relationship. It's just that the person isn't there to participate in life events the way that they would have. It's just different. And it's coming to terms with that new relationship, that new, that's hard. It's annoying. One more thing you have to deal with. Yes, another thing. Well, what would you say to anyone who has someone close in their lives who is grieving and going through a loss? What is the best way to be present or to find a way to be part of that support system if that's something that they wish to do, but maybe they're afraid of stumbling or tripping or making a situation worse? Yeah, well, there is no right thing to say. Like, I don't think that there's anything that's a perfect thing to say. I am a believer of just letting the person know that you're there for them, because they might not be able to be available to you or to know how to guide you. People are like, what can we do for you? And I was like, I don't know. The thing that I need, no one can give me. I need him back in front of me. I need him sitting here next to me holding my hand and you can't do that. And so I think I found it really helpful when people were just available. I will say a lot of people brought me food for a year. That tends to be what we know we can control is having food. Yes, so much frozen food. And so I think just letting the person know that you're there for them, you're thinking about them and do it past like the two to four weeks after the death. Because that tends to be when people go back to their lives and they're like, woo, all right, I showed up, I was there for that person. But then when reality sets in, their loved one's not coming through the door, that's when you need to hear it. That's when it can feel isolating, is when everyone else is back to enjoying their lives and your life is in shambles. And I think be honest about it. If you're not sure what to say, say that. I have no idea what to say to you. I'm here for you. I'm shocked. I'm so sad. To me, being more real created more connection for me than people trying to send me things about, well, he's in God's hands now. Well, that's great. And don't get me wrong if any of you have said that. That's not a problem. It's just for me, was like, that's not helpful. I want him in my hands right now. And so I think just being really honest about the awkwardness, and I myself am still awkward. I went through this and I'm still awkward sometimes after people and let me know that they've had a great loss. I'm like, oh, because what I want to say is that's a bummer. That just sucks right now. And I'm sorry that you have to go through this. But you have to be in the right place at the right time for that kind of thing. Yeah, it's, I feel the awkwardness sometimes as, as we're creating, as I'm creating the She Diaries podcast where I, it's like, I'm so sorry, something so tragic has brought us together, but I would love to learn more. It's, and, it's like, tell me everything. It can be tricky, but I do like your response and I think it's so valid. We're all human if we just come to it with an honest feeling, emotion, words. It level sets the playing field. Like just don't pretend to be overly confident if you're not confident and that's okay. Actually probably is better. Well, and what's great about what you're doing, so many people I know get to a point where they want to share their story. Like your purpose and your meaning in your life shifts drastically and then it's like, what do I do? And at some point I think at least a lot of the survivors I've talked to, they want to find a way to help others and you're giving a platform to do that, which is amazing and giving people the opportunity to share their story. And I think that is something that we need is because the more that we can share, hopefully it'll encourage other people to start sharing their stories. And you're doing a lot of advocacy work as well. What more would you like to see done in the mental health space and recognizing and understanding suicide in the grieving process? I feel it. I'm like, I'm not sure we have a whole lot of time for that. No. know, I know. Um, Well, one way I think that we could be better with it is so often if people are in a place of crisis and you go into a hospital and then you stay there for the amount of time a hospital can hold you and then you're released. And I have met people where it's when, their loved ones are released, and they're not getting really enough follow-up care is when something happens. So I think there's a need there. I do think we also need, like I said, more, I mean, I do see it in schools, there's a lot more focus on social-emotional support, but it needs to start with parents too. So being able to encourage parents to start to really look through their things, and that's kind of what I've developed is a way to guide people through some of their grief in order to start looking and become more aware of what those experiences are from their childhood in order to start that healing process. Yes. And you have your podcast, which I saw the last one was about anger. Um, I, I just, I love that the title of a lot of these are just those like raw emotions. Uh, tell me a little bit about your podcast and what you're diving into there. Sure, so my podcast is Forward to Joy and really it's an opportunity for me to just share the tools and tips for ways that I've gotten through my grief and also to give an opportunity for others to share other stories. And really, I just want to increase people's toolboxes and say you don't have to wait for tragedy to get those coping skills. What can you do when you feel good, which often when we feel good we don't think we need them, but what can you put in place now when you feel good? So that when, not if, but when something happens, because life will happen, you at least have a baseline of some tools that can help you through it. Is there anything else we have not mentioned that you would also like to make sure you share with everybody? Definitely reach out at ForwardToJoy.com. There's a lot of resources. My book is on there. I think we've covered it all and I'm just really grateful for this opportunity. I'm so glad to have you and thank you for trusting me with your story. Thank you for coming on the show. And I know we have a lot more work to do in this space and I'm just so grateful to know you Alexandra and to keep on going. Oh, Thank you so much, Krista.