She Diaries

Charlotte Maya's Story: Parenting Through Bereavement and Grief Brain—Finding Resilience

• Bright Sky House • Season 1 • Episode 3

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In this compassionate episode, Charlotte Maya shares what it truly means to grieve a spouse while raising two young sons after loss. From the haze of grief brain and physical repercussions like chronic pain, to the slow rebuilding of trust, community, and clarity, Charlotte maps her path toward resilience and starting over.

Charlotte’s experience introduces meaningful rituals—like her sacred Tuesdays and the 12 Days of Christmas—as lifelines of self-care. She emphasizes the importance of trusting instincts, honest communication with her children, and acknowledging how mental health and stigma shape healing. By openly telling her story, Charlotte strengthens suicide prevention, reminding mothers, families, and those in crisis: you’re not walking this road alone.

Content Warning

This podcast includes real stories of suicide loss. Some episodes may reference the method of suicide and include emotionally intense or uncomfortable descriptions. We understand how sensitive this content is, and we carefully edit each episode to honor and respect both our guests and listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling, please call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org for free, 24/7 support. Please take care while listening—pause if you need to. You are not alone.

Takeaways

  • Pervasive grief brain and its emotional and physical toll
  • Honest parenting through what it means to grieve a spouse
  • How chronic pain and mental health weight the healing journey
  • Intentional rituals—Tuesdays and community gestures—as anchors of
  • resilience
  • The importance of trusting instincts and supporting children who grieve differently
  • Community as a lifeline, even through small expressions of care
  • Reclaiming life as starting over, not "moving on"
  • Sharing experience as a step toward suicide prevention and reducing stigma

See photos of Charlotte and Sam on on our episode blog post.

About She Diaries

In She Diaries, women who have lost their husbands to suicide bravely share their stories of strength while navigating the unimaginable journey of widowhood. Through candid interviews, the podcast explores their lives before the tragedy, moments that changed everythin

Mental Health Resources

  • 988 Suicide & Crisis Lifeline: Call or text 988 for free, 24/7, confidential support for mental health crises, suicidal thoughts, or emotional distress.
  • Find a Therapist: Search for licensed therapists near you through directories like Psychology Today, TherapyDen, or Mental Health Match.
  • Join a Support Group: Connect with others through peer-led or professionally facilitated support groups via NAMI or GriefShare.

Stay Connected with She Diaries

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LinkedIn: Bright Sky House

If you have questions or would like to follow-up with any of our guests, reach out to Hello@BrightSkyHouse.com.

She Diaries is available wherever you listen to podcasts.

Hi, I'm Krista Greig, your host for She Diaries, a podcast sharing the real unfiltered stories of women who've lost their husbands to suicide. It's raw, it's honest, and it's about finding your way through the unthinkable. Before we get to the show, please know this podcast includes real stories of suicide loss and is not for little ears. Some episodes may reference the method of suicide and include emotionally intense or uncomfortable descriptions. We understand how sensitive this content is and carefully edit each episode to honor and respect both our guests and listeners. If you or someone you love is struggling, call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org. You're not alone. Please take care while listening. Pause if you need to. And you can find links to additional mental health resources in our show notes. Thank you for listening. Hi everyone. Today's guest is Charlotte Maya, author of Sushi Tuesdays. You guys can see on video, I have devoured this book with so many notes. And it is a memoir of love, loss, and family resilience. Over a decade ago, when Charlotte's husband Sam died by suicide, Charlotte had to navigate parenting her two young boys, her pain and grief brain, which we'll go into in the podcast, and the silence that often follows tragedy. In this episode, she shares what helped. Her sacred Tuesdays, honest conversations with her kids, and the Janes who showed up when she couldn't stand on her own and keep an ear out because engineer Jane is my favorite. It is a story about trusting your instincts, especially when the path ahead makes no sense. This is Charlotte Maya's story. Hi Charlotte, it is so wonderful to have you here on She Diaries. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing your story and for everyone listening or watching. This is Charlotte Maya and she is here to tell us her story with her husband Sam and their lives together. Krista, thank you so much for having me here today. I just feel so passionately that suicide is something that we have to talk about and people are so afraid to say the S word, but the thing that helps is talking about it. So I am really grateful for your work in this space. Happy to be here and I... I've enjoyed it. We've had a lot. We've had a few conversations on the backend. Um, and Charlotte, uh, we're going to talk about this a little bit later, but Charlotte does have a book called sushi Tuesdays. Um, and we'll talk about how that came about, but I'm already going to put it out there, put that on your wishlist so you can understand a little bit more. She goes into some amazing detail and metaphors of what her experience was like. Her individual experience was like going through all this. So we will dive in, but before we get to the heavy stuff, Um, tell us about your life with Sam. Talk to us about the beginning and, in, life with him. Yeah, well, Sam and I met in law school um at UCLA. Sam was the best thing that came out of law school. I no longer practice law. haven't in a long while. I sometimes call myself a recovering attorney. My best friend I also met in law school. um We got married pretty young. were 24 and 26 when we got married. In fact, we graduated from law school the year after we got married because I thought, well, I can take the bar exam a couple times, but I'm only going to get married once. And so I really didn't want to be distracted by wedding planning when I was also taking the bar exam. And things were just, they were very easy with Sam. One of our friends told me once that walking into a room with with Sam and me was like walking out of the cold and into a warm room with a fire going. And that was how it felt inside the relationship as well. It was a place where I felt safe and warm and loved. um you know, after several years, we had two kids and a dog. And I mean, it was pretty unremarkable in a lot of ways. Our life together was pretty, you know. Did I read it right in that you guys also moved into your childhood home in California? That was really sweet. My parents had, um my dad was a physicist and he had gotten uh his sort of dream job as a physics professor. had worked for NASA for many years and then later in his career he got the opportunity to teach and he loved teaching. And so he took this job in the Midwest as a physics professor. He was always sort of a quintessential nutty professor so it suited him well. And so my parents moved to the Midwest and they didn't sell their house right away. But then when they were ready to sell it, Sam and I were ready to buy it. So um yeah, so yeah, I bought my childhood home and we did some remodeling. So it really felt like our home, not just, you know, moving into mom and dad's house. Right. The idea of raising your kids were literally where you grew up. actually, that's really sweet. And I mean, to be able to also make it your own. Um, what, uh, so, so you and Sam, had two boys, correct? Mm-hmm. And you're living your lives and he was in financial. don't recall specifically, but I know that he was in, he was interested in the stock market. He was doing finance of some sort. um What was kind of the daily life like? Sam was a stockbroker and so he, we live on the West Coast and he worked East Coast hours because the market opens 930 East Coast, so 630 West Coast. So, um you know, our days usually started pretty early and um our older child was my fourth pregnancy. So we um had had uh two miscarriages and a tubal pregnancy. before I gave birth to our first child. And so when I was pregnant with that child, um Sam and I thought a lot about whether I would go back to work or not. And we were in a position where I could stay home for a while. And so we decided to do that because it had been such a road for us to become parents. Yeah. And so that was the decision that we made and were lucky to be able to make that decision. The way that I read the book, you also thrived and you enjoyed being a mom. You enjoyed that life. Which is great. Loved it. um Loved being at home with the kids, loved being able to, you know, watch their first steps and hear their first words and read with them and take them to the park. And in some ways it was uh a very sort of traditional um family life for Sam Miso. worked and I was home with the kids and there were a lot of things I really liked about it. What when did you start noticing that work was becoming really stressful for Sam or the financial market? You know, it sounded like he would make some comments here there, but it wasn't anything that was a red flag. It was just daily stress is what is how I was reading. never any sort of real red flags. mean, if you have a job, you have job stress. If you don't have a job, then you super have job stress. So it was totally normal to come home and he would talk about um situations or um something that he was thinking about. Sam had a lot of integrity and so... it would, we would often talk about the things that he would see and struggle with. And, um and so it didn't seem like inordinate stress. There was, I mean, after his death, I could look at things differently. And there was one day that he had come home and I think it was maybe, it's hard to remember now, but maybe just a few weeks before his death. when he said something like, I can't do this anymore. But at the time, you know, I mean, how often do we say those kinds of things? I can't do this anymore, right? You say that when the baby's not sleeping through the night, I can't do this anymore. But somehow you drag yourself through. it didn't, it didn't strike me as particularly alarming. And um he had back pain. Sam had had back pain from the time he was 13. So that too was something that felt, and he'd had two surgeries when the kids were little, little. And um And I could see he was in pain. I could see he was physically in pain. And I do think that our stress manifests in our bodies, often in backs and shoulders and necks. And so that also struck me as something that I noticed. Well, and you mentioned in your book as you're reflecting, there, seems like there's little poignant moments where it's like, maybe this was him telling me, or maybe this was something or, but one of the things that you discovered was um chronic pain can often lead to depression. And that was a question, I think. um You were asked by your therapist, like was Sam depressed? And then the idea of, wow, well he's suffered with pain his whole life. Maybe in we're not here. We don't know at the end of the day, but that was kind of one of those discoveries of, well, he's had this back pain since he was a kid and he was about to have his third surgery. He wasn't about to have a third surgery, but I wondered whether that was something he was thinking about. Like he never mentioned to me that he wanted to have surgery again, but I did wonder about it because I could see that he was in pain. And so that was something that we hadn't talked about. But this is kind of why I think it's so important to talk about suicide, to develop sort of a literacy in suicide, because there are things like... chronic pain that can lead to depression, that if we just understand that in the same way we understand that having a balanced diet is good for overall nutrition, like we understand about nutrition and exercise. so understanding about mental health in the same sort of um just very matter of fact way, I think makes such a big difference in how we interact with each other. And so knowing that there might be a connection between chronic pain and depression and knowing, for example, I just think this is so important to know that if you ask somebody if they're thinking about ending their life, you are not going to put that idea into their brain. You're not going to cause them to think about suicide for the first time. Instead, what's actually happening is you're demonstrating that you are a safe place for somebody to let you know that they're really struggling and that you're seeing. that um you see and you understand that life is kind of hard sometimes and we all need those moments where we know we can talk to somebody. It opens up that door of vulnerability. okay, we're going to say the S word right now. And I need you to be honest with me about this because I'm here for you. Right. But if you don't know the S word, if you tiptoe around it, if you, Hey, are you having a bad day or, you know, life's kind of hard, right? Um, that you gotta, you gotta get to the point. Have you thought about taking your life? Do you have a plan for how you might? Those were not questions that I asked Sam. They honestly hadn't occurred to me. But knowing what I know now, there are some signs um that I would absolutely pay attention to. And the most important thing, I think, is to trust your gut. You know your people. You know your people. And when something seems off, And something had kind of seemed off, but I couldn't quite put my finger on it. And so when something seems off, it's okay to ask and your people will have different things. But for Sam, he had lost a little bit of weight, not a ton, don't know, 10, 15 pounds. So not like a shocking amount of weight, but he didn't have. an awful lot of weight to lose and it was it was a little out of character for him to be for his weight to be off is probably the best word I would use to describe it it was weird for him to be so um emotionally heavy and and then one of the weirdest things that I did not recognize at the time. And in my defense, when I did practice law, I was a trust and estates lawyer. So I looked at wills and trusts every single day. I didn't think about it that weirdly because it was sort of, it was what I did. um And Sam, the night before his death had had our own wills and trust out on the kitchen counter. And now I understand that that can be a sign of suicidal ideation, but at the time, not only was I a wills and trusts attorney, I was actually thinking that we needed to revise our own will and trust because it had our older child, Danny, by name, but it did not have our younger child, Jason, by name. It just said everything at the end of the day goes to Danny and any other children we might have in equal shares. So as a practical matter, it functioned just fine. But... sort of emotionally as a mom, I wanted both of the kids by name in the document. So when Sam had it out on the counter, I didn't ask him, oh, hey, what are you thinking about? I said, hey, I've been thinking about revising those. And so we never had a conversation about it. You were in a completely different mindset. You're thinking, let's make progress. This is something that's been on my mind. Yes, yes, very. I was looking for and he was not. I understand that at the time. But when we talk about sort of suicide literacy and understanding what those signs are, if you know, looking at your will and trust might be a sign of suicidality, then um now you know. You know, you can compare, he's losing a little weight, he's had chronic pain his whole life. Not to say that anyone that fits this category, but you can at least ask the question. You can ask the question or even just, hey, what are you thinking about? And who knows where that will lead and being willing to listen and follow to where it leads. Talk about that day. Your, boys had a soccer game and Sam decided to stay home and you were reflecting about at one point, did I infer he was going to take a nap? Did he say he was going to take a nap? And that seems murky kind of in the moment, but he didn't go to the boys soccer game with you guys. So he was tired and I knew he hadn't slept. And that was also weird, but on Friday, that Friday, the market dropped 300 points, which today doesn't sound like that big a number, but at the time it was a really big number. So he was very stressed. And so it made sense that it would keep him up at night. But it was weird that he never came to bed. That was weird. Usually if he was stressed, he would eventually come to bed. But that night, it didn't seem like he had come to bed at all. So I knew he was exhausted. And so he said he was going to stay home and take a nap. And I took the kids to the game myself, which was unusual. Normally he would have gone with. um But it made sense because he was exhausted. Exactly and you're giving him that space to mm-hmm to take care of himself And then I had a plan to go hiking so you had a very active day going ah is with little kids. uh I'm thinking like, would enjoy that. That sounds lovely. Um, and he wasn't home when you guys got home. Um, so you try to give him a call. Tell me a little bit about that afternoon and, and what ended up happening. Yeah, so I had taken the kids to the soccer game and then after the game like we had a whole plan for the day after the game we were going to have lunch and then we were going to go for a hike, take the dog for a hike. And so when I got home after the soccer game, he wasn't there, which was a little weird. So I called him and I got voicemail. But then we went to lunch and we had lunch. We picked him up. We picked him up a sandwich as well. And then um when we got home, he still wasn't there, which then was very weird that he hadn't checked in even was kind of weird. And so I called again and got his voicemail and it was in October. So the days were getting shorter and it was a beautiful fall day, like clear blue sky, gorgeous afternoon for a hike, not too hot. And, ah but I didn't want to lose our daylight. So. I also thought um Sam would sometimes if he was stressed, and I knew he was because the market had dipped, um he would go for a drive. That was something that would relax him. And so I thought, well, maybe he went for a drive and and that would explain why his car wasn't there and whatever. So I load up the kids and the dog and we go for a hike. And it was a beautiful day. And as we're getting onto the trail at the beginning, this guy was coming off the trail and he said, hey, up ahead, there's a baby rattlesnake. So you should pick up the dog and just be aware. And I was really glad that he had let us know because um baby rattlers are sometimes hard, you know, you don't see them and they don't rattle yet because they're so little and their rattles aren't totally developed. And so sometimes you can um surprise them and that is when they bite. And... So up ahead in the trail, we see this little snake. And so I pick up the dog and we walked around the trail was really wide right there. So we walked around the snake and I'm thinking, my God, Sam is going to kill me when we get home because he would never have walked the kids around a rattlesnake. We used to call him safety dad because he was always like on, he was always doing the safest thing. And um so we go around the snake and we climb, we, continue to go up the trail and there was a little pond and Jason caught a little frog and he made me take a picture of his frog. He said, look, mommy, take a picture for daddy so we can show him my frog when we get home. It's the tiniest little frog. And um then it started to get a little cooler. The sun's starting to go down and you know in the mountains, once the sun starts to go down, it can go down very quickly. So um we went back down the trail and we hadn't gone that far. The kids were six and eight. It wasn't like we were backpacking in the Sierras or something, but also they're six and eight. So sometimes they don't go that fast and they get distracted by rocks and worms. things. And when, the reception was really poor in the mountains and this was in 2007. So just for context, the first iPhone came out in July of 2007. So, you know, we, had a flip phone. And cell reception was often poor in places where there was hills. So by the time we got off the trail and back into the parking lot, I still didn't have a missed phone call or a voicemail from Sam. And now I hadn't talked to him all day. And I was very concerned. That was not at all normal. And um But you know, I've got two little kids in the back and the dog. And so, you you do the mommy thing. And so I remember driving home from the trail and it's just maybe 10, 15 minute drive. And I could hear the kids talking in the background, but I have no idea what they were saying. Because I was, by this point now, I was very concerned because I hadn't heard from him all day. And this was very weird. And um I just kept thinking. I just wanted to get home so I could see his car parked in front of our house. And when I turned the corner onto our street, there was a police car parked in front of the house and the lights were flashing silently. And that's probably when I started holding my breath. But as I got closer to the car, I could see my front porch. And the way my mind was thinking is, if the police are here at my house, they're gonna be on the front porch. Because there were two chairs there, you know, as a nice little welcoming. area had access and we'll find out later why they yeah. I just pictured them sitting on the front porch like friends coming over for dinner. I don't know Just stopping by. And so there was this moment when I exhaled because they weren't in front of my house. And I thought, thank God the emergency belongs to somebody else, which is not a very charitable thought, but it is what went through my head. And then as I turned into my driveway, I could see up at the top of the driveway, there they were. And there was a policeman and a police woman and a priest. And I kept staring at that white clerical collar and I just thought this is not gonna be good news. um So I put the car in park, I told the kids, stay here, I'll be right back. I get out of the car, I slammed the door closed and I go to talk to them. And what I said was my children are in the car and the police woman said, I will watch the boys and they need to talk to you, meaning the. the and the priest. And so I walked into my house with them. I mean, they walked in first and the door was already unlocked, which I thought that's weird. Right? And the policeman told me, I think you need to sit down. And I said, I don't think so. Like there's this weird thing that happens when I think if I don't sit down, then I can stop from happening whatever he's about to tell me. Like it's a weird sort of like if I don't sit down, then whatever bad news he's about to tell me won't be true somehow. I don't know. I almost see it as an element of control. Like you are not in control of what is about to come. They're in your house. They showed up. You did not ask for this. And the least you can own is whether you sit or stand. uh Yeah, yeah, I think that's right. But then I did sit down, I was really glad I did because that's when he told me that Sam had taken his own life and um all the feelings sort of drained out of my body. And one of the things that they told me They said, so after they told me what happened, I asked a couple of questions. um They said, we will tell the children that their father died, but you have to tell them how. And we recommend that you tell them the truth because you do not want them to find out from somebody else. And on a day when nothing made sense, that actually made sense to me. And so the policewoman brought the kids into the house and um I sat in a chair in my room. It was kind of an oversized chair, but like I said, they were little. So we all fit in one chair at that time. And um I told them the truth. And I told them that their father loved him, loved them with all of his heart. And I told them that he had taken his own life. by jumping off of a tall building in Pasadena. And it is the hardest thing I've ever done. But also, I'm really glad I did because my children know that they can count on me for honest answers to difficult questions. Those kids turned 26 and 24 yesterday. Yesterday, yeah. And they still know, they both have the same birthday. They still know that they can count on me for honest answers to. life's hardest questions. And sometimes the answer is, don't know. And that's fair. Yeah. And right after the news broke, two neighborhood friends came over to help immediately. ah So what were they able to do for you in those moments? So the police, you know, they're like, they've kind of done their job, right? Which is, um I'm really grateful for the job that they did. I just want to kind of pause and make a note of gratitude and appreciation for our first responders. um Because I know, I mean, I haven't, I don't know, I just know from my side. um That is a very difficult job, but they did their job well. And their advice to be honest and transparent about Sam's death really held me for this journey, that level of honesty and transparency. just a note that I am so grateful for first responders because it is a very hard job and um they did it really well. And you know, you're experiencing something once in your life, they see this every day. And that is something, you know, in my profession, I can't even imagine day after day seeing, mean, there's, there's wonderful, beautiful stories out there too, that they get to help with and, and, but, um, they, do a fantastic job for comforting, for providing resources. Um, and to also let listeners know too, they came to your house because they wanted to make sure if I read that right, it wasn't a murder suicide. So they were actually to kind of tie that piece of the story up. They were in the house making sure you and your kids were okay. Yes, they were. Because horrifyingly, sometimes that does happen. Murder, suicide does happen. um And when I did get off the trail from the hike, there were a couple missed calls for numbers I didn't recognize. That was probably them. I don't know for certain, I mean, I'm 100 % sure that was them. Those were the missed calls because they had tried to call me. And when they couldn't reach me, and then when they went to the house and they knocked on the door and nobody answered, um They were concerned for my safety, for the kids' safety. But then they go, right? So they come, they do their job. They say, do you have family? And I say, yeah, my parents are 75 miles away. And they say, do you have anyone closer? And I say, yeah, well, my sister's 20 miles away. And they said, do you have anyone closer than that? um I have these family friends who are kind of like an aunt and uncle to me and they lived, you know, two blocks away. And so they came over um and, um you know, just held me and the kids. In fact, I think they might've called them even while I was, I think they called them before they brought the kids back into the house, actually. because they heard me tell the kids um something that was true then and I believe is true now is that their father's love will be there for them their whole life. And. uh um Yeah, so I think they were there kind of in their way as I was talking to the kids. Well, there is one thing that still continues to stand out to me that does hold true that um they were able to predict for you and you received a very, very tight embrace and hug and then we're told what is to come next is so unfair. You're going to have to comfort a lot of people. Yeah, yeah, she held me and she said, this is going to sound completely unfair, but you are going to have to comfort a lot of people. And she was right. It did sound completely unfair. And she was right. I did have to comfort a lot of people. You, you had not only your two boys, you had, course, you know, both sides of the family, were juggling different belief systems. There's just so many different ways that everyone's experiencing grief that you really had to navigate from day two and on. Um, of this whole thing. Um. So listeners understand. Yeah, Sam was Jewish and I was Christian. And so part of when I saw that white clerical collar, part of my little brain is like, whoa, whoa, whoa, you're not even a rabbi. You can't even be here. Like you don't belong here. But I knew exactly what kind of funeral arrangements Sam wanted. And... But I think there were people in the family, on Sam's side of the family, who were worried that I wouldn't do what they thought was right. it was hard. But also, you know, I don't know, I'm kind of spicy enough to go. love that you were spicy. I say this with a, don't know if everybody, I can see myself, I can speak for myself personally, I can see myself trying to please everybody, because I know everybody's going through all of this. But you know your husband, you know what he wanted, and I thought it was even just more, I don't want to say serendipitous, but later on you found, his actual writings of what he wanted. And you started going down the list of, I did that check. I did that check. And it was this, I don't know, recertification of, yes, I know this man and I know who he was and I don't need to question that anymore. I knew Sam, I love Sam. this, just, were able to own it and know it from the beginning. And that, that whole process and sushi Tuesdays where it came full circle, that really, that was touching. Well, it's so hard. In my situation, I um really didn't know in advance, like I say, looking back in retrospect, now I can look back and go, okay, knowing what I know now about mental health and suicidality and suicidal ideation, I can see signs that I missed. um the guilt can be um harrowing, really. It's so heavy. but you know, I've had a lot of good therapy and so, um, I couldn't, you can't see what you don't know, which is why these conversations are so helpful. but it didn't make part of why it didn't make sense to me is that I did know Sam and he would never have left those kids, even if he had left me, which I didn't see. But even if he had, you know, I'm a girl. Whatever. He never, not whatever, but you know what I'm saying. I'm a big girl. And if you had to leave me, okay, that would break my heart, but he would never have left the kids. And that's what I just kept coming back to. There was no way, there's no way he was a hundred percent himself. There's no way he could think rationally. just, every part of our physiology is wired for self preservation. Even babies will gasp and flail if they're tossed into a body of water, right? It's so innate. So something has to go glitchy in order to accomplish a suicide. just, you can't get there without something that's not working the way it's supposed to be working. And so I was able to see that very clearly. And then I was also able to see my own role for what it wasn't. It wasn't my fault. And the thing, if Sam did anything wrong, it was in not asking for help. That is what I feel very passionately about. It's our jobs to ask for the help we need, because nobody else is inside our own little brains. We have to reach out for the help that we need, which is why it can be very helpful when you ask the question, are you thinking about suicide? Right now the person just has to say, yeah, yeah. And it gives, it gives a container to hold that conversation safely. And as we said before, I was a trust in a state's attorney. I often had read those documents where you write down what you want to happen with your remains. What kind of funeral do you want? Whether you want. Herculean efforts at the end of your life, all of those kinds of decisions. um I thought I knew what I actually thought is, I thought Sam had given me full discretion to do whatever I wanted. And so I sort of operated on the premise that I had full discretion to do whatever I wanted after his death in terms of a funeral and whether it was a cremation or burial or what to do, because I had given him full discretion to do whatever after my death. And what I discovered after the funeral, after the burial, um after it was too late to change anything was that he had not actually given me full discretion. He had a very specific list of what he wanted. And so when I first found that list, I kind of um sank to my knees actually because I thought, oh no, what have I screwed up? But when I went through his list, I actually had done everything he had asked. Not because it was on the list, but because I knew my husband. It was just beautiful. It was beautiful to read that. It was for me too to read that list. And if anything's wrong, we're going to burn the list. That's right, nobody needs to know. But listeners, no list was burned. It goes back to trusting your gut and through all of this, um, you know, you trusted your gut with your grief. Um, talk a little bit too about you had two sons to take care of that were both reacting very opposite in this situation. And often while you were trying to help one, it wasn't helpful to the other and vice versa in navigating. being a single mom and helping them through their grief. Yeah, being a single parent is um not for the faint of heart. And uh not surprisingly, each of the children had different ways of experiencing and expressing and working through their grief. And this is universal, right? We all have our own ways of managing grief. And so part of it is learning how. And so, you know, the children sort of teach you what you need to know. And I had one who refused to say what we called the D words, dead and daddy. And so, and one who wanted to talk about dead daddy all the time. And so this was not an easy space to navigate. And so there were times when, you know, Jason wanted to talk about dead daddy and Danny did not. And so trying to manage for both of them what they needed in those moments was tricky. It was really tricky. And we do our best and you know, we make mistakes and then we circle back and try again. I don't have any answers, but I'm willing to sit with the questions. And so I think that's an important part of parenting and grieving. Well, and I liked when, when there were harder moments, you knew it wasn't just about, instance, the Lego set, you know, and tearing it apart because dad and I did this together and now he's gone. So I'm just going to destroy it. And you, you knew it wasn't just about the Lego set and then for him to build it back together so beautifully in his own way. um That was just so healing to read and symbolically just such a wonderful representation of going through this process. It's never going to be the same. Yeah, well, the writer in me, you know, when life hands you the perfect metaphor, you're just. Yeah, so there was a night when Jason was just really distraught and he was breaking this Lego ship that, you know, the ones with like 17 pages of instructions. And it was probably a Star Wars spaceship or something, and he smashed it. And my first inclination, you know, is to is to stop him. because breaking things is kind of not fab. um But I also had a very quick checklist to go through in my head. He's not hurting himself, he's not hurting his brother, and this is not irreplaceable. So I let him. I didn't actually try to stop him. was like, okay, check, check, check. Well, I guess he can break it. And tried to stay with him, but he was... I mean, it's awful. He's tears streaming down his face and he's breaking it and smashing against the wall and against the floor. it's those little Lego pieces scattering all over the floor. And then at one point he looks at me and says, mommy, you have to fix it. as if, right? I mean, it was so clear that this is what our lives looked like, shattered all over the place. Like, you can't fix this. And eventually, you know, we got everybody settled down into bed. then, and so I had collected all the pieces into a big Tupperware. And the next morning, he asked for it. He's like, Mommy, can I my Tupperware? I was like, Okay, do you need any help? He's like, nope, I'm good. So he goes off and starts building and I don't know, don't know, fed the dog or did laundry or brushed my teeth, who knows what I did. The dog got fed that day too. Thank God. Not always the case, poor dog. But I would check in on, how are you doing? Oh, I'm good. Do need any help? No, I got it. And then he came to me after a while and he was so excited and he's holding it up to me. He's like, look, mommy. And he's showing me all the laser blasters and the fancy things and his imagination that he's put on here. And he says, it's better than it was before. Yeah. And I mean, he made it and he had to go through that. I I just, interviewed someone, um, last week and this is a small little tangent, that she, we were talking about art therapy and this idea of how you have to, um, you know, just the creation of something and the process of creating, it's not even about the end result, but it's just going through the motions of creating whatever that art piece is. or what you're constructing, it is so healing for so many people. And when we were talking last week, your son absolutely came to mind for this. And sometimes that art, um it's like thinking out loud. And the art itself can be the thinking that is too scrambled inside, but it can be kind of an external thought process. we surprise ourselves often with what happens. Well, and so I want to find, cause I think you had a really great description of grief brain in here and I don't want you to have to try to memorize it, but I want to find it because they thought it was so descriptive, um, in a way that if anyone hasn't experienced this, maybe they can somehow, I don't know, I to say relate, but understand a little bit. So this is what you wrote, uh Looking toward who knows what, the window, the hardwood floor, a teacup, a pressing task I'd already forgotten and felt the warmth of my hand. My eyelids drooped with the weight of exhaustion and my body fell into its rhythmic inhale and exhale. If it had been intentional, I might have called it meditation, but it wasn't. It was the lungs and heart doing what they do. And while I did not possess the awareness to be in awe of my body's simplicity and power, still each breath pulled me through to the next moment. Does that accurately describe your memory? of grief brain. Grief brain. Yeah, because it is it's it is real like it's like pregnant brain, you know when you put the milk in the pantry um There's no recollection of having done it but the milk's there and when souring When someone's having those moments in grief brain, what advice do you have for people who want to help? it... Yeah. have, I have advice. I was so afraid that I would be ostracized because of how Sam had died. But what I found was actually the opposite. What I found was incredible connection, people wanted to share, people wanted to hear. And um what I learned was that everybody has a gift. And Some people, their gift is cooking and we need to eat and that's all good. And some people, their gift is making a playlist. Like they love music and so they're really good at making a playlist. And so for people who want to help, what I would say is you have a gift and we need it. Whatever your gift is, just bring it. It is so helpful when somebody shows up with their gift. And all you have to say is yes. Like I had so many people, something I do in the book, I had so many people who wanted to help me that I couldn't develop all of these people as full-fledged characters in the book because it would be too confusing and too long. But so I started calling them the Janes. There was uh Jane MD who brought me uh Xanax so I could sleep. And... uh So that's a gift if you happen to be a doctor and can help somebody who is your patient get some of the pharmaceutical help that might be very helpful for them in that moment. That's a gift. um Everybody's favorite Jane in the book is who I call engineer Jane. down. I have this hat because I was going to go there. Engineer Jane. Engineer Jane is everyone's favorite Jane because she comes up to me one day at school. says, Charlotte, I have no social skills and I can't cook, but I have noticed that you and the kids are late to school every day. And so what engineer Jane does is she walks us to school every day for months. So for months, she arrived on my doorstep at seven 45 every morning with her two kids in tow, by the way. And so she'd walk in the door and we'd be like socks, shoes, lunches, homework, here we go, up the hill to school. I don't know anyone. I don't know any, I don't know anyone who can be on my doorstep every morning for months on end at 7 45 to walk me and my kids to school. But I only needed one. I didn't need 12 engineers on my doorstep every morning. I just needed one and she was there. And so I think there's so many ways that we can help so many ways to just show up and pay attention, show up and pay attention. Does somebody need help with the laundry? This was, mean, This was back, Sam died in 2007, but I had a friend who would come and she would collect my bills and she would, um, she would write the checks, she would write the checks, everything except my signature. She would put, stamps on the envelopes and she would put a post-it note with the due date on the, um, on the bill. And so all I had to do was sign it, put it into the envelope. and put it in the mail. And that was something that was so helpful because with grief brain, I... There was a lot of a uphill battle or barriers just to getting access to financial accounts because it was just in Sam's name or trying to just manage utilities because you know, you, you had to prove death certificate or you had an, or the account was going to be shut down. And so to have some, have a Jane help you navigate that or take care of some of those afterthought utility bills for you, um, that, that speaks volumes. Yeah. I mean, like, whatever your gift is, bring it. Yeah. Just bring it. You want to drive carpool, make lasagna, whatever. Bring it. and so you had a very special Christmas in a time where I'm sure you were wondering how are we even going to get through this and tell us about the 12 days of Christmas. So Sam died in October and um so Thanksgiving sucked. And can I say that? You can cuss all you want. is a full adult show. That isn't even a cuss word. can talk about your URL with SushiTube. We're going to go there too. um And I was dreading Christmas. I was absolutely dreading Christmas. And sometime mid-December, and you know, it's so dark in December, sometime mid-December, um there's a knock on the door, the doorbell rings, and the kids run to the front door. Because, you know, it's always fun if somebody's coming to the front door, because they had been, people had been coming to the front door with dinners. And so, you know, who was bringing dinner tonight? And so, but they opened the door and there's nobody there. And there is one of those triangular shaped Trader Joe's boxes with a gingerbread house kit in it. And it has the silver ribbon on it and a little square note that says on the first day of Christmas, dot, dot, dot. And so we collected inside and I think my parents did the gingerbread house with the kids. And the next night, the same thing happens. The doorbell rings and When we get to the door, there's nobody there, but there were two snowman mugs with packets of hot chocolate mix tucked inside. And it says, on the second day of Christmas, dot, dot, dot. And at first, we kind of wanted to know who had done it. But we were out at, I don't know, therapy or something, because we went to a lot of therapy. Big fan. His, ours, all the therapies. um So at first we tried to catch them, but we couldn't. They were like too clever. But every single gift the third night, the fourth night had the same silver ribbon and the same note on the fourth night of Christmas. And it was always simple things like six oranges or seven apples or eight candy canes. I can't remember now exactly what the things were, but at some point I started kind of liking the not knowing of it. There was something. very magical almost about not knowing who it was. I had even asked like my friend Karen, I was like, did you do this? Cause it kind of seemed like the thing she would do. And she's like, no, I wish I was doing it. And I was like, huh, who could it be? But then I kind of, yeah, then like I said, I kind of started warming up to the idea of not knowing. And so then I would kind of make a point of corralling the kids in the back and reading a book and then oh, there goes the doorbell. And by the time they got there, our little elf had disappeared. But I didn't kind of know what to expect on um the 12th night, which was the 24th of Christmas, Christmas Eve. And we were expecting something, but I really didn't want the kids to be disappointed because was, know, life had already dealt them the biggest disappointment I could imagine. And so I was very protective of them and their little big feelings. And we got home from a friend's house, because I couldn't stomach the idea of doing the same thing we always did for Christmas Eve, but without Sam. So we went to a friend's house. And when I came home, Krista, looked like Santa himself had delivered the contents of an entire sleigh. There were 12 gifts, um four for me, four for Danny, four for Jason, all different colors of paper, all different ribbons. And it was amazing to feel so cared for and seen and so, um just so loved. And I still don't know who did it. And now I don't want to know. So listeners, if you know, don't tell me. Because part of what's so beautiful about it is not knowing, just that. for oh for love to enter. Like you don't have to know, but there she is. It's like the most selfless thing. You don't need the acknowledgement as the giver to be like, can you please say thank you? do hope that if you do know who it is, please tell them thank you. But at end of the day, was just a selfless thing and it's not just a one time thing. is you. created magic in such a dark place in someone's life. Yes, they did. created something. Well, and you know, they created hope because for the first time we were looking forward to something like we wondered what are they going to bring tomorrow? What are they going to bring the next night? And so at a time when everything is so dark and heavy and it is very hard to imagine what tomorrow will bring and a little scary, they created this sense of hope in a place. where we weren't experiencing a lot of hope. was truly one of the most stunning gifts I have ever received in my life. It's incredible. Yeah. I had to bring that up. That part in the book was, oh my goodness. So I don't even know where to go from here. Cause I am like really emotional just thinking about someone being able to offer you guys those 12 days. I mean, you, you, what I guess obviously life moved on. You guys continued. I do want to, what were your daily practices and talk a little bit about, if you don't mind, Sushi Tuesdays and what does Sushi Tuesdays mean for you? Okay. I guess part of what I want to say is that um the healing is ongoing. you know, Krista, Sam's birthday was last week. um And so there's not a date certain on which healing ends. There's no time that life just moves forward without him. But you're not supposed to get over it. You carry it with you. I often think, you know, love remembers. That's the thing. Love remembers. And that's okay. It just, doesn't, it doesn't, um it's not so heavy. And I don't feel like time heals all wounds. I feel like time plus work is what, time gives you space to do the healing work is how I think of it. Time by itself doesn't, do the healing, but time gives you the space to do the healing. And so one of the things for me um that is healing for me is writing. so um when, and because as I said, I was very sort of transparent about how Sam died and I was surprised at how much people, you know, wanted to hear and connect and, and. Sadly suicide is one of the leading causes of death in this country. I'm not sure whether it's 10th or 11th It's something like that. It's the second leading cause of death for two age demographics 25 to 35 and 10 to 14 which is horrifying and so I found that speaking about my grief and my process and speaking about suicide um was something that people cared about and So I started a blog and um when I was going through my healing process, Tuesdays became a sacred day for me. uh My therapist had a recurring slot open up for her on Tuesdays and I had a yoga class that I really liked on Tuesdays. And so Tuesdays became my day just for me. I called it my Charlotte Shabbat. This was my day just to focus on my own wellbeing and healing. And as a single parent, I knew I had to preserve that time for myself. So as a practical matter, was just from the time I dropped the kids off at school until I picked them up. But I really guarded that time as a sacred time for my own healing. And sometimes I would take myself out for sushi party of one. The kids were six and eight, so they didn't really care about sushi back then, which is good, because now they do care, and it's very expensive. um So Tuesdays were my day just for me. And about a year after Sam's death, uh the chaplain from one of our local suicide advocacy groups asked me to speak, the chaplain and my therapist asked me to speak at a children's grief conference. I was basically exhibit A. so, um when I shared my story, the chaplain afterwards said, when you write your book, Charlotte, you should call it Sushi Tuesdays. And so I thought, okay, that sounds like a good catchy title for a book, but a book was too big. And so I started by writing a blog and I had always imagined um Sushi Tuesdays as... as it shows actually on the book, Sushi and then underneath Tuesdays, but in URL form, there's one of what we call Uncle Jose's colorful words right in the middle of Sushi Tuesdays. And once you see the shit in the middle, you kind of can't unsee it. It's Dutch, it is Dutch Dutch. So I hadn't planned it, I kind of wished I had, but once it was there, I think it's kind of poetic because it really deals with, grief is messy and it stinks. so, Sushi Tuesdays, that's where the title comes from, is my self-care day. But I do love that it has the shit right in the middle of it because that I think is sort of poetic and it is how we have to heal, is dealing with all the crap. Did you let the chaplain know later on about his recommendation for her recommendation? And she loved it too, which I think speaks to a really good chaplain. If they are willing to get in the mess with you and good friends, if they're willing to just sit with you in the shit, those are keepers. I love that. it's so great. It is so great. Just sit in the shit. Sometimes that's what it is. It's like this. Well, what are you doing today? So you have your blog ah and your website. You have the book. ah What does advocacy look like for you? And if anyone who is listening would like to do more, what do you recommend that they do? This is a great question. Well, first of all, talk about it. Don't be afraid to say the S word. You are not going to create um more suicides. You're going to create more awareness and you're going to create more connection. um I think, you know, reading about it, understanding what the signs are, learning how to speak about suicide, one of the things that we um avoid the term commit suicide because the word commit has connotations of criminality and suicide is not a crime. Suicide is a disease, it's an illness. And so the way we speak about suicide makes a difference. That having been said, I would rather have glitchy conversations about suicide than no conversations about suicide because silence is definitely not the answer. um just being a safe space for people to talk to and just paying attention to your people. Absolutely. One thing in your book, I had the same reaction when I heard the phrase suicide survivor, because when you hear suicide survivor from an outside perspective, and before I got into crime and trauma scene cleaning, I'm like, wait, so they didn't complete suicide? They didn't, they survived? And the term is actually for those who were close around them who lost a loved one to suicide. I find it a very confusing term. And I've been using suicide loss survivor. And for some reason that makes sense to me. And I don't, how do you feel when you hear that? Like your survivor of suicide loss is how I'm. Yeah. That term is fine with me. I learned a term recently that I actually really love, em suicide postvention, because I look forward to the world when there are no suicides, but we don't live in that world yet. And um just as we don't live in a world where cancer doesn't steal some of our loved ones from us entirely too soon. And so I work um in suicide prevention, but also suicide postvention. That is more of where my expertise is because it is so important that healing from suicide, suicide is a very complicated death to come to terms with. you know, the, um was complicated for me to understand. I was 39 when Sam died and it was very hard to understand. And when children have experienced the suicide of someone they love, whether it's a parent or sibling or uh a grandparent or an aunt or uncle or a friend, um it is a very complicated death to come to terms with. And they revisit it at each developmental stage. And so it's important to kind of understand that this healing work really isn't done after the LEGOs break. that it continues. And yes, it is a great metaphor and it continues to be a great metaphor. I wish I could tell you that the kids don't still suffer from their father's suicide, but they do. And it's not the same as it was and they understand it, but they're never not going to think about it. Sam was 41 when he died. When these kids are 41 themselves, they're going to think about this. Again, in a whole new way. When their children are six or eight, I think they are going to understand in a whole new way that their father would never would have left them. So I think that it's important to talk about it and to keep talking about it. I agree. I agree. And if anyone needs help out there, um, you know, there's the 9 88 hotline. I loved your message in the book saying every cell phone should already have the national suicide hotline phone number already pre etched into it. I highlighted circled that started a million times. I thought that was just so some of these national numbers to get help. Cause Sam only had what 10 contacts in his phone. And if he had that one, maybe. Maybe, I think just the fact of having the 988 lifeline out there, just the fact that we have it. So listeners, if you don't know 988, you can call or text any time of the day or night. And it doesn't even have to be your own mental health emergency. If you are worried about somebody else, you can call or text 988. I think just the fact that it's there is a great reminder that everybody needs help sometimes. I think that alone helps to take the stigma and shame out of asking for help. Yeah. If you feel like you have no one to call, there's always someone to call. There's someone that's willing to listen. there anything else you would like to share on the podcast today that maybe we haven't covered or a parting thank you or message to anybody? Um, I think your hands. Sorry, Krista, I think you've done such a beautiful job with this work. I'm so grateful to you for highlighting this very important, like you say, hidden story. just, you know, there's always hope. I think that's the only thing I would just make sure people know there is hope. Yes. Thank you so much, Charlotte. Thank you for doing this with me. There's so much more to do and this is just the beginning for Bright Sky House and She Diaries and I'm so grateful for you to trust us with your story. Thank you, Krista. Thanks so much. Thank you for joining us for this episode of She Diaries. We know these conversations can be incredibly heavy. If you're feeling overwhelmed or need support, please take a moment to care for yourself. In the show notes, you'll find links to mental health resources, crisis lines, and support groups. If you're in crisis or need immediate help, call or text 988 or visit 988lifeline.org. You are not alone. If today's story moved you, we'd love for you to subscribe, leave a review, or share the episode with someone who might need it. To stay connected, follow us on social media at BrightSkyHouse and subscribe to our e-newsletter at brightskyhouse.com. If you'd like to connect with a guest or share your own story for a future episode, send us a note at hello at brightskyhouse.com. Every story deserves to be heard. Thank you for helping bring this one to light. Until next time, I'm Krista Gregg and this is She Diaries. These old feelings drive me away