From Blockbuster to Queer Screen, Interview with Festival Director Lisa Rose

In The Premiere Episode of The Producer & The Publicist, we sit down with the outgoing Queer Screen Festival Director Lisa Rose to talk about her experiences navigating the world of queer cinema, her journey from working at Blockbuster to running one of the most celebrated LGBTQ+ film festivals, and the challenges and joys of curating a program that reflects and pushes the boundaries of queer storytelling. Lisa shares insights on how the video store era shaped her passion for film, what it's like wearing multiple hats as a festival director, and how she balances showcasing mainstream hits with uplifting emerging filmmakers. We also dive into her advice for aspiring festival directors and her thoughts on the future of queer cinema in an ever-evolving cultural and technological landscape.

Tune in as we discuss her inspirations, the moments that made her fall in love with her work, and her vision for Queer Screen in the years ahead.

Queer Screen: https://queerscreen.org.au/
https://www.instagram.com/queerscreen/
https://www.facebook.com/queerscreen/

Lisa Rose (LinkedIn): https://www.linkedin.com/in/lisa-rose-38188888/

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Transcript

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The producer and the publicist acknowledged the lands of the Gadigal people on which this podcast was recorded. Always was, always will be Aboriginal land. Welcome to the premier episode of the Producer and the publicist. My name is Kyle. I'm the producer, and I'm Louise the publicist. This is the podcast where we pull back the curtain on the screen industry and talk to professionals about what they do, how they got started, and advice for anyone interested in their jobs. Today on the pod, we're gonna be speaking to the legendary, amazing, amazingly so Rose. Lisa's the Festival Director of Queer Screen, which puts on two major festivals each year. The Mardi Gras Film Festival in February, and the Queer Screen Film Fest in August, we're gonna get all into the beers of queer film festivals. I'm so excited that Lisa is our first guest, especially as you and I. Both worked with her for many years at Queer Screens Mardi Gras film Festival, and I think you'd agree. She is an absolute delight and just a total legend to work with. And now here is our chat with festival director Lisa Rose. Lisa Bow. Thank you very much for joining us as our very first guest on the producer and the publicist. What's my honor? And you've had a very. Interesting career. And could you tell us where you first started in film and where you are now? Where I first started in film was back in the nineties when I worked at a Blockbuster video store, if you could count that. But Quentin Tarantino started in a video store, so I do. And then I did that for almost 10 years and then moved into a different sector. And it wasn't until I started volunteering at Queer Screen back in 20. 12, 20 12. Yes, that I came back to the industry. What made you wanna start volunteering for career screening? At the time I had just gone through a breakup and so I needed a new relationship. Um, so I decided to marry queer screen and I was dedicating a lot of hours, um, to queer screen for many, many years as a volunteer. And I've always loved queer film since I was growing up. I remember. Just constantly searching for any semblance of representation on screen. And it was much harder to, um, find that when I was coming through my process in the nineties of trying to work out my sexuality and it's been a passion of mine for a really long time. I've always been a consumer of it and, and really searching for it and it just felt like a really natural fit for me to, to dedicate sort of my energy and time to it. That's brilliant. I think Teenage Lisa will be very grateful for what you are doing now for the community. She would. I think that it's probably as good just going back and actually reflect on some of like your experiences coming into volunteering quiz screen to ask a question like, how did starting a blockbuster shape your passion for film? And do you think there's anything about being back at the video store that you missed today? I think one of the things definitely that, that kind of shaped what I'm doing now at Blockbuster was probably my absolute favorite thing to do. There was recommend things to people and it wasn't just, I would recommend my favorite films or whatever, like people constantly do that. They'll, they'll say, watch this because I love it. And it means that you should, which is just not the case because everybody has completely different tastes. So I would always ask people, they would, I would say, they would constantly say what film, uh, what's a good film? And I'd say, what sort of films do you like? And they would always say, one's with a good story. And I'm like, that's not really helpful. So I would always ask them to tell me like one or two films that they had recently seen that they loved or they're some of their favorite films. And once I had that kind of as. A measure, I was always able to then find a film that they hadn't seen that kind of fit into that same sort of box. And so I was able to start my curatorial journey at that point at Blockbuster. And in my time of doing that, over the nine and a half years I was there, I only ever had one person come back and say that they didn't like the film that I recommended. Every other person was always like, that was brilliant. And there was a film called White der, which was the film that I recommended a lot to people because it was just one with a good story that lots of people hadn't seen. I think the biggest thing I miss about it is that you can't take away that. Physical feeling of picking up a, picking up something and turning it over and reading the blurb and it's just a walking around the new release wall or the weekly section, and it's just a completely different experience than just sitting in front of like a lot of people do now, where they're just sitting in front of their TV or on their. Phone or their iPad or whatever, and just scrolling and continually scrolling. Like when you've got a, a physical thing in your hand and it's that sort of experience of going with your friend and like walking around and doing it, or your partner or your family and grabbing all your snacks. Like it's just this, oh, it's just this wonderful sort of nostalgia hit that I'd do. I really miss. And I used to be jealous when I'd be in the Vidia store, when I'd see all people going to choose the movies. I'm like, I wish I was doing that other than. Being on this side of the counter. You might be too young Kyle for that. Did you ever do your family trips to Blockbuster? I would spend a little bit of time, actually a blockbuster, I think in Western City we had more video Easy than Blockbuster, but I definitely used to spend time, sorry, that's a competitor. For anyone that's listening so bad, we should be shopping at Blockbuster if it still existed. But no, I'm very curious as well, if Blockbuster was still such a big thing today, I am very curious how you think queer films would be represented. Uh, yeah. How queer fields would be represented at Blockbuster? Now is a good question. I think now it would definitely have a section, there would be a queer section in any video store that if it still existed, as there is a lot of the streaming platforms or the ways that you can see stuff. So I think that it wouldn't be something that was not acknowledged. I think it would very much be a part of what they were offering. So you started volunteering with Bruce Green in 2012? Did that shift happen from volunteering at the festival to becoming part of the board? To becoming the festival director? Yeah, so I was only volunteering probably for about four or five months, and I was just helping out in the office. I was processing memberships and answering the phone and doing a sort of. Bunch of things like that. And then the vice president at the time, Giovanni asked if I would like to join the board because I clearly had a lot of passion and dedication and was put in the hours and had some background in, in business so that I had wasn't just coming off the street. And so that's how I started from that aspect. And then it wasn't long after a few months, the first festival that I became the vice president, and then I was eventually the president as well. And. There was a previous festival article called Paul Scrubs and a festival manager James Woolley, and they had to do everything on even more of the smell of an oily rag than what we currently are and needed a lot of volunteer help operationally. And because I was so interested, they really taught me a lot of stuff. And I was like a surrogate staff member with the amount of hours I was dedicated and, and doing and helping with them in particularly in not just marketing and programming and things. Since when, uh, they announced that they were leaving, I just had an epiphany where I was just like, what am I doing? I'm 40 and I'm not really that passionate about what I was doing as a career, and so I just thought. I need to do this. I just need to turn my, all of this volunteer hours, like I was sometimes volunteering 18 hours a week to turn it into my career. And I it, yeah, I'm just really excited that I actually kind of had the courage to do that. I guess. What gave you the courage?'cause that is incredible. Obviously you've built a blood of experience and knowledge being on the board and working with Paul and James, but what was it that, can you remember that moment where you thought, okay, this is, I can do this. It's really interesting'cause I spoke to my fellow board directors at the time.'cause obviously I couldn't, it didn't mean that it was a foregone conclusion that I would get the job. I just had to say to them, applying for this, so I'm gonna have to resign from the board. And I spoke. I called every single one of them. I think there was about six of us on the board at the time. I remember having this one particular conversation with one of the directors, Brad, and he just gave me this. He was just like, this is brilliant. Like 100%, this is what you should be doing. Like you're amazing. And it just made me go, oh, this person that I've been volunteering my time with actually believes in me. And it was the response that I got from most of the board when I spoke to them. And, and even my, even my boss at my other job, like she was sad that I was leaving. I was working in database marketing and. She could see it as well because she knew how much time I was dedicating and she said, go for it. So I just, yeah. But I had no idea what I was doing when I started. None. None whatsoever. We're very glad you made the jump. Um, and actually on that, can you describe for us what a festival director does?'cause I know you wear 20 different hats in a day. I do. Yeah. So, um. In an organization of our size, it is, a lot of film festivals don't necessarily have that structure anymore. But yeah, we have a festival director structure, and obviously I'm responsible for the artistic division of the festival from a marketing perspective, but obviously also from the films that are selected. So that's one big portion of my work, but it's not the only aspect and sometimes I feel like I don't have enough time to even do that part. So I'm also doing a lot of just strategic leadership. There's a lot of administration that I have. To do. There's a lot of just, just management and then, and I have a, a couple of staff members that work with me part-time throughout the year now who help me in programming and then also in operations and production. And so it's like just overseeing and working with them and idea generation of how we're gonna function and how we're gonna, how we're gonna manage the festival. And working with lots of different partners, whether it's a corporate partner or community partners or industry partners. It's like building all those relationships and stakeholder management. A bazillion emails. I probably know the answer to this already, but is there a typical day in the life of a director? No, and that's actually one of the things that I. Not so much struggle bit, but I, like, I, it's not a thing that I was particularly used to in my previous two roles I'd had. They were very, not so much monotonous, but it was very structured in the way that this is all you're gonna do every day. It was rare for things to be like out of the, but the every day is completely different and it really, the breadth of the things that I have to do. Is really large. And so it, it's about like balance, balancing those priorities and then working out when you've got an event that you're producing. And we obviously produce two film festival here as well as doing a couple of filmmaker initiatives. It's about just working out that timeline of like where your priorities lie. And November is really a key moment where I'm just watching. Like hundreds of fills. That's what I'm really focused on at that point, because I need to lock the program in early December for Mardi Gras, and so it really comes down to where it falls in the calendar to determine what my typical day is in May in comparison is very different to my typical day in October or November, for instance. And what about the job do you love the most? That's a great question. I mean, I love telling people that I'm a professional gay. That's pretty good. Um, but I think it's just the fact that it's a really privileged position. There really aren't that many. Film festival directors who are paid for one thing that exist in in the world, and particularly in, in queer festivals. And particularly being a woman, like it's not the norm. So that is something that I hold dear and feel very honored by. It's getting to work with lots of really fabulous. Creative people and the fact that we have so many volunteers, like I have a team of about 40 people that watch films for me and it's this wonderful community that we've created and getting to interact with them and, and talk about film and argue about things is like something that I really enjoy. And just working out the puzzle of the festival, like the film, like the program, is probably something that I really like doing. I really don't like locking the program that is the most stressful time, just, it just is horrible. And why is that so stressful? What's the most challenging aspect of blocking it in? It's, I think it's probably the misconception that people think we can have every film that we want and we just can't. We can be chasing films for months and they don't even answer us, let alone give us a screener to consider the film. Or they might give us a screener saying, here you go, watch the film. And then we invite the film and they're like, no, you can't have it. Or they might say, oh, we need more time, or You need to pay X amount of dollars. Or it's just that, that waiting game where you don't have control. Like you, you have a real lack of control. Like you can, you have to have backup plans of going, I'm gonna invite this film. If that film falls over, then I've gotta fill that slot with another film. And it's, yeah, it's just a, a stressful time. And also because of where we are in the world, like it means that my sleep is often interrupted because of the fact that I'm, I'm waiting for people from all over the world to answer me. And so it's that thing of, I need to think, oh, I've

gotta check my email at 11: 12:51

00 PM because if I don't check it now, I won't answer it. It'll be like a big delay in getting their answers. So you've gotta look at who you're talking to and where and, and it's also just, it's a highly competitive, now, it's much harder to confirm films now than it used to be, just because of the nature of queer films making their way to other festivals and streaming platforms and distribution. And people have plans that don't always correspond with screen, with queer screen, unfortunately. And I think people maybe don't understand that. So when you approach a film to screen. They're weighing the queer screen Mar Gras film festival or QSSF up against other film festivals that they might want to premiere at, or as you say, streaming and distribution offers. And it's not just other festivals, but it's, yeah, it is that thing where it's sometimes they'll be, they'll feel, obviously they want the best for their film. I understand it, and a lot of the time it can be about their investors and wanting to make the best money, money investment that they can do. So they'll often be like waiting for distribution and things like that. And it is very hard to get distribution in Australia, but it, there are a lot more distributors around now and there, there definitely are, as a percentage, a much higher a number of films that we play that actually have got distribution now to what we used to or have sales agents. Like when I was first started this job, I was dealing a lot of the time directly with producers, but I don't on features, I don't deal directly with producers that often narrative films as often as I used to. And so it just means that, it just makes it more difficult for.'cause you've got a lot more kind of, people aren't as personally connected to their project, so you can't sway them with that thing. And you also have the thing where you've often got films that are queer films that sometimes whoever has control over the film at that point doesn't actually want it to play that many queer festivals because they don't want it to be pigeonholed as a queer film. They want it to be more mainstream and play other places. And so, um, that can be a challenge when you're trying to convince people that these are the audience that wants to wash your film more than anything. And what advice would you have for aspiring festival directors or festival managers, people who'd like to be like you, helping bring these stories to life for communities? I think the biggest two pieces of advice I could give is one, start volunteering because the vast majority of these organizations, um, desperately volunteers in all facets. Um, and over the course of my time, like numerous number of our staff started as volunteers. Andrew Wilkie, who's my, uh, program assistant industry coordinator, he started as a volunteer. The previous festival operations manager, Vicki also started as a volunteer. Our marketing person started as well, like just so many people started as volunteers and it really gets you to get that kind of knowledge about the organization. And also then people get to know you and when positions might be rare come up, give you that kind of edge over other people because they know how dedicated you are and what sort of skills you have. And the other one is watch a lot of films and go to festivals so that you can see like how festivals do things.'cause every festival does things differently. Also it's about just, just watching, watching films from all different types of genres and all different types of filmmakers and um, different eras. And one of the things that happens a lot is that through like our pitching competition and things like that, we'll have people talk about how unique their film is. And I'll be like, it's not unique at all. I've seen like that story a thousand times before. And so, uh, if you're a filmmaker or wanting to get into curation, it is about just, just having that sort of knowledge of just. All the stuff that's out there and the trends that are happening and 'cause we are looking for unique things and obviously crowd pleasing things and a real lots of things really looking forward. I, I'm really curious, firstly, how do you choose films for a festival unique as queer screen? You talked about in terms of the finding both big festival kind of ones and emerging filmmakers, but I'd love to know more about how you as the festival director help choose and select those films. Yeah, so where every festival does things in a different way. And so a lot of festivals might only do things through, um, things where people pay a submission fee and it gets submitted to them and then they select from that. Um, we actually don't charge submission fees, um, for people to submit to us, uh, which is not the norm. So we obviously watch all of our submissions, but we also solicit films to submit to us. Um, and it, we go through and look at all the sort of. Major sort of queer festivals and some of the smaller queer festivals, uh, across the world, as well as a lot of the mainstream festivals as well. We have relationships with sales agents and distributors and and filmmakers, and we just watch a real large range of films. And then generally over the course of the year, we only select about 15% of those films to actually get played at one of our films or events, sorry, one of our festivals or events. And it really is about, I think, with a queer film festival. We are very much about the audience as well as about the filmmakers. It's like finding that balance. You wanna, every festival has what they call their tent peg films. So the films that we know are very commercial. You're gonna sell a lot of tickets to. And then you have the ones that are a little bit more niche that you know you are not gonna sell a lot of tickets to, but they're still really important to have in there because it might be like boundary pushing or it might be you wanna support that particular filmmaker. It might be the story is incredibly unique, or it's an incredibly important story, or it's artistically amazing, or whatever it is. With a queer festival, you'd have to look not only at the balance of the different identities on screen. And sexualities and gender identities and stuff that are represented. But you've also gotta look at the balance of where they're coming from in the world and what sort of representation there is on screen from what people look like and like different abilities and, and yeah, and just the different genres as well. And so I have this big spreadsheet where I've got sorted into like groupings and like look at. I've got this many in this sort of section and this many in this section. And then one of the things I find really useful towards the end of program lock is looking at a whole bunch of sort of imagery from the films that I've got to see. What does it look like I've got, and what does it look like I'm missing? And so then I can focus on looking at those kind of pockets, so to speak. And so with queer cinema becoming more mainstream, how does that kind of affect kind of the decisions you make in terms of making sure that queer cinema might still. Push boundaries. Yeah, so that's the, I know there'd be some festivals that might like, 'cause we're a little bit larger, we have a little bit more flexibility on what we can play. So I know that the festival, if we were a lot of a, a lot smaller festival, I probably would only play films that didn't have distribution, for instance, like I would just be like, I'm just gonna bring films to the festival that. People have no other opportunity to see. But because we're a bit of a larger program than some other, um, queer festivals around the world, we can afford to play some films that have distribution. Because even though the film might get distributed in cinemas or, or go to streaming or whatever, at some point, like you cannot place the experience of watching, uh, a queer film in. Darkened room with a predominantly queer audience, like it's, it just hits differently. It's a completely different experience than watching it in almost empty cinema with a mixed audience or at home. So I think those things will always exist, and it's just about. Convincing people to allow you to show those films, but also just really bringing home to the audience the, that that experience is not something we wanna have go away. So that's one, one aspect. And then it is that thing about looking for those new kind of voices that are out there, that are telling new stories that you wanna support and asking specifically about trends and things like that. And looking more future focused five years down the road. What sort of films do you think you would be considering for Queer Screen? What are some of the reoccurring themes or particular stories that you hoped to see come to life? Yeah, that's a interesting question, Carl. The film in its whole has been very male focused for a long period of time, and so I see it's probably changing a little bit, but it's the kind of, the diversity of story a lot of the time that are about gay men, particularly young gay men, is probably a little bit more, there's probably a larger variety than other identities within the the community because it's like they have gone through this journey and they've had the ability to make more films over the course of. Our lifetimes. Seeing that greater variety of other representations is something that we're starting to see. And and it's also about the, the audience though, I think need to learn that as well and learn that there's a, a greater variety of things for them to watch. And it's, even though so many of the audience. Want to just watch happy stories or wanna just watch feel good films or romcoms and that type of thing. It's about educating the audience that there's a lot of different things that you, you can watch. And I think it's something that we've seen a lot of lately in particular, is horror. Like horror films are really getting, um, they're back in the trend in mainstream cinema as well in terms of getting people back to the cinema. And there's a lot of really interesting, um, genre and horror and thriller kind of stuff that's getting made from a queer perspective now, which is exciting for people who like that type of thing. Why do you think that is? Why do you think kind of horror has this kind of perspective of actually being very much now in queer cinema? Is there something about the camp nurse? What do you think it is? Do you think it's the ire irreverence of the fact of the genre? It's the thing that's happening in general, like in, in mainstream cinema, like it's the, seems to be like a semi low budget. In terms of the Hollywood type of thing, like they're really bucking the trend in getting good returns and getting people. I figured it is appealing to, to younger people. I think in particular, I think a lot of queer people, there's been a lot of queer coded kind of horror sort of stuff that sort of existed and it's also often queer people were villains and things like that. So you can look at. Exploring filmmakers, I think, can look at exploring like those, sort of, that trauma and that all those sort of personal things and, and de personal demons that people can have through kind of horror and turn it on its head a bit and make it, make it a little bit more interesting than just being the victim, so to speak. I think the final big question I think we wanted to ask you, I think it's a big one that's affecting everyone's industry, which is how do you think being a festival director in the age of artificial intelligence might affect your job and your workflow? I don't think. I don't think a, a job of a personal director is in danger against ai. I think there are certain things that like that we do that I think it, like, there's obviously, I think around like writing I think is a big thing that is in danger in terms of ai. Obviously it's, it's not, you can't replace. A lot of original thought and all that stuff with ai, but I do think there is some aspects around some things that we do from a marketing perspective and things that AI could be involved in and, and also in just in our like operational kind of low of making things more efficient, I think. But I don't think you can, I would, I would hope that I'm not as easily replaced by a computer in terms of being able to understand. That sort of personal sort of experience as a queer woman and being able to then use that as a strength to be able to understand my audience and what it is that they connect with and would like to, to see on screen. So I just, yeah, I would hope that I couldn't just get plugged in and replaced. But you never know. Not until you can clone yourself anyway.'cause you tend to do the work of about 10 people. So that will be That's true. It's true. Me too. Yeah, that would be handy. I, yeah, maybe I can, yeah, that would be good actually, if I, myself, that'd be good. Lisa Rose, thank you so much again for being our first guest on the producer and the publicist. That has just been such a fabulous conversation. Thank you. I guess just to wrap up, is there anything you want people to know about festival directors that they don't? So we love you, um, and we know how hard you work and maybe the general audience doesn't. Is there anything you'd love the audience to know about festival directors? I dunno, that's about festival directors, but. Festivals in general, like they are very expensive. They're very expensive things to to do, and they need to be supported so by the audience and by the community because otherwise, if they don't, they, they will not exist moving forward because of the fact that people have such a. Such an ability to be able to watch things, particularly queer things now more so than ever. It's important, I think, to support those organizations that have been doing the hard yards for years and years and years. And my number one tip to emerging filmmakers, if you're like making a short films that I always like to say is don't put long credits on your short film. Your credits on your fill need to be under a minute, 45 seconds if you can.'cause if you put, we've had fill that have been submitted to us, it might be like. Five minute film and then they've got two to three minutes of credits at the end of it, and it's, you're gonna be played on the block. You need to think about the fact that's the case. And if you have really long credits at the end, it's gonna mean that you can only be played last. And generally most festivals will play one of the strongest films last. So it's gonna limit your chance of being selected. So there you go. That's my number one tip to filmmakers making short film. That is a very hot tip, so anyone making a short film at the moment looking to get on the festival circuit, please keep those credits short. Excellent. Thank you so much, Issa. That was just a fabulous conversation and as Kyle said, just a brilliant way to start the podcast. So thank you so much for your time. You are very welcome. And now it's time for the screening room. This is where we tell you about what we have been watching and loving. Whether it's the latest box office hit a hidden gem from streaming or an old favorite. So Louise, what have you been watching recently and what are you loving, Kyle? I saw the best film. It literally had me screaming with laughter and crying, and sometimes at the same time, it's called kneecap. You know what? Every story about Belfast starts like this. It's arlen's entry for the Oscars next year. It's an almost true story about a punk rap trio from Belfast called Kneecap, and it's basically the story of how they started performing. An audience of Zero at their uncle's pal to becoming these really unlikely figureheads for cultural rights movement around the Irish language. It's just, they're wild. They're fun, they're a little bit crazy. And the most incredible part is the actual members of the band play themselves and they're brilliant. Like they totally hold their own. Against established actors like Michael Fastbender. And I just, I loved it. And what's been really good is I've been asking a lot of Aussies or international people who've seen it, and even though it is a political story, you don't need to know the background to get the essence of it or to enjoy it. It's very much in the style of train spotting. So I think if you like that sort of. Crazy madcap antics and there's some brilliant like claymation and different effects that they use as well. So it just, it was a really enjoyable film. I agree with you completely. I'm not from Belfast, I'm not from Ireland, but I think the film really does portray this kind of level of rebellion and being true to yourself and being honest when the whole world is moving. Around you, and I think it's just such a really beautiful, quite fun film. I was actually in tears watching it, which I think is really beautiful film. So please make sure you check out Kneecap when it comes into cinemas. I have been watching the Substance. Have you ever dreamt of a better version of yourself? Younger. More beautiful. More perfect. Oh, is that the Demi Moore one? That is the Demi Moore film, so Demi Moore plays a fantastic TVB fitness. Instructor named Elizabeth Sparkle off during her 50th birthday. She faces a devastating blow where her boss played by the incredibly sinister and fun Dennis Quaid named Harvey Fires her amid her distress. A laboratory offers her a ubstance, which is which she, which promises to turn her into the most beautiful, enhanced version of herself, which of which is played by the incredible Margaret Qualy. So it's directed by Caroline Farer. It won best screenplay at Carne. It closed the Sydney Film Festival this year. It is really fun. It's really gory. It's two and a half hours of a rollercoaster ride. It's incredibly good fun. Just there are moments of this film that's start off really quite crazy, and then it just. Pumps up the drive and it takes you from zero to here. There is parts of this film that are just bloody without giving too much away. It pretty much puts carry to shame in tons of blood. It'll be really interesting to see how this film does in the Oscar race because. The films that have played at CAN before normally do tr uh, very well. Like last year, anatomy a full director, Justine Ree actually won the Palm Door and then she actually went on to winning an Oscar for anatomy before. So it will be interesting to see how this goes. So if you're into a bit of body horror and if you're into a bit of a really crazy two and a half hour ride, it's just such a fantastic experience to watch the substance. So make sure you check that one out as well. And what's the difference between horror and body horror? Seeing as you're horror expert explain to me. I'm not, I would like to say that maybe I'm not, but for me personally, horror is always about the general scares, whereas body horror is more a kind of more gut visceral, react, visceral reaction to really creepy. Intense things that happen with people bodies. It's all about films like Kronenberg the Fly, things like that, where a traditional kind of creepy film is gonna make you go and go, Ugh, I need to like not be so afraid of going to bed tonight. So I think that's the difference. It's that idea of. Body horror is all about the mutilation of the body because there are some moments that I think if you watch the substance, you are never going to forget. We'd like to say a huge thank you to our first guest festival director, Lisa r. To find out more about Lisa or Crew Green, check out the show notes. The produced from the Publicist is hosted, written and produced, both by Kyle Goldfinch and Louise Newland with the music video. Film Role Biosa with Music from Epidemic Sound.