The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
School Teacher to Investor: How Duplex Joe Built a Storage Portfolio From Scratch
What if the fastest way to level up your real estate game is to write more offers — sooner — using just a few laser-focused questions? That’s the spark behind this week’s conversation with Joe “Duplex Joe” Gracyalny, a Wisconsin investor who went from teaching and bartending to building wealth through duplexes, and now, self storage.
We break down Joe’s real-world path from small multifamily to storage and unpack the mindset, math, and methods that helped him scale without overextending.
Inside this episode:
💡 Why duplex values ride comps — and storage values ride NOI
🧮 How to force appreciation by improving income and trimming expenses
⚡ The fast-offer framework that turns phone calls into contracts
💬 How to handle common seller objections with confidence
💰 When you’re truly ready to scale: reserves, systems, and stability first
🤝 How local meetups like REI Success Club fuel real deal flow
🧰 Free tools at Duplex University to strengthen your financing package
Joe gets honest about the tradeoffs — fewer tenant calls, but tougher deal access — and why staying disciplined with underwriting and reserves separates investors who last from those who burn out.
Whether you’re just starting with your first duplex or thinking about your next leap, this episode will sharpen your playbook and remind you: in Wisconsin real estate, steady beats flashy every time.
If you’d like to reach out to Joe for questions, advice, or collaboration, you can contact him directly at DuplexJoeGreenBay@gmail.com
👉 Subscribe, share, and drop a quick review — it helps more local investors find the show.
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or YouTube.
📩 Have a guest or topic idea? DM us @TheWisconsinInvestor — we’d love to hear from you!
Welcome back, everybody, to another episode of the Wisconsin Investor. I'm your host, Corey Raymond. Today, guys, we are going to talk some really exciting things. My man Joe here, who I'll introduce in a second, and I were just talking a little bit before we get on here, and I'm really excited for where this conversation's probably gonna go today. And we're probably gonna do something a little different, maybe today. Joe might be throwing me some questions. I might throw some questions at him. We'll we'll figure that out as we go. But before we do, as I do on every episode, I'm gonna give a little commercial. Today, I'm gonna switch it up a little bit. I'm gonna talk about the REI Success Club. So this is a networking opportunity you guys have heard me talk about on different uh podcast episodes. We also have a Facebook group just called the REI Success Club. Uh you just go on there. There's tons of great resources and information and people in there who are willing to help you get started in your real estate investing journey or help you propel yourself forward a little bit further. It's all free. You don't have to pay anything to be in the Facebook group. As far as the uh meetup group, we meet on the third Tuesday of November this month. Typically it's the fourth Tuesday of every month, but with Thanksgiving being kind of weird, it's gonna be the third Tuesday coming up in November. And we are gonna be doing a deal breakdown, guys. I'm telling you, we did this last year, and it was it's people still talk about it to this day. So we will give you guys a ton of information at this meeting. You guys will sit with your table and you will discuss, you know, what do you think the ARV is, what do you think the rehab cost would be, so on and so forth. What do you think your profit would be? What would your offer be? And then we'll reveal to you at the end what the actual numbers were on the deal, and you can compare it to what your table all thought for those numbers. So it's a great learning opportunity. I learn something every time we do it, and I know you will too. So come on out to that third Tuesday this month at the Woods Golf Course in Green Bay. Doors open at six o'clock. With that, Joey G, what's up, my man? How are you doing today, brother?
SPEAKER_01:Doing phenomenal, man. Uh, appreciate you having me here and excited to talk uh a little bit of real estate.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, man. Well, I this has been too long coming, Joe. I don't know why we haven't done this before, but I've known you and your brother, Kevin. Gosh, since you guys really got started in real estate, you know, take us back to that a little bit. I, you know, I know a little bit of your story, but for the audience that doesn't know, give us a little rundown on of how you got to to this point and being, as you've coined yourself, duplex joe, uh running with the Wisco Rhea, which is another great uh meetup group in Green Bay as well. But tell us a little bit, how did you how did you go from where you came from, and I won't spoil it, I'll let you share your story, to uh to where you are today, man.
SPEAKER_01:Heck yeah, man. And um yeah, started off. I was actually analyzing deals and everything out of Dubuque, Iowa. I was a teacher and coach and everything um back there, and I was analyzing a bunch of stuff in northeast Wisconsin. And I don't know if you knew this, you maybe might have, but um actually got my first deal ever off uh off you.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, come on now! So let's go! I didn't know I was your your cherry pop, if you will.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, that Erie Street one. Um anyways, but yeah, it was uh that's uh started back in 2018. Nice and um ended up just getting into multifamily, and turns out Wisconsin is like the duplex capital of the world. I didn't know that. That's interesting. There's a lot of like between like us and Indiana, like a lot of them. But um anyway, so it just made a lot of sense where cash flow was a little better there and was buying a bunch of those and decided, you know, I realized that I wanted to specialize and was you know, had a good well, a handful of duplexes onto my belts, and so kind of branded that way, and it just kind of all flowed together and it was a fun little name, and it's easier than saying my last name.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, yeah, that is true. Yeah, that is true. It is fun. I still like refer to you as duplex joe, even though now you're into storage and other things, but that's okay. Yeah, I'm not gonna storage Joe just doesn't have the same ring.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, if I had to get a tattoo, I would I guess I'd probably have to stick with duplex joe.
SPEAKER_00:Oh man. Well, I'm excited to have this conversation, dude. And again, anything that you want to throw my way at any point or any questions, let we'll we'll kind of maybe try to keep it a little bit more back and forth conversation. But I am really interested in in your transition from duplex joe to where you are now focusing on the storage unit sort of thing. What was the what was the catalyst for that and what was that like changing sort of niches or it's really a whole different business. Like running the numbers is the same and the principles are the same, but it's it's a different type of real estate, right? So talk a little bit about that transition and what prop what kind of prompted that.
SPEAKER_01:100%. It was the main catalyst or the question I was trying to answer um was you know, I can stay in the small multifamily game forever, and it'd be just fine. But was looking for a little bit more of a challenge and something that's a little bit greater, where it was either gonna be larger multifamily or some other type of asset, like product type within real estate. And I wanted something that I could force the value on it, where duplexes are great, they're fine, you can find them all over, like we already hit, but you know, if you raise rents, the value doesn't necessarily go up based off of comps. And so I was like, What's a way that I could find some uh product and stuff that's out there that's a little under-rented or mismanaged, and I can take it over, bring it up to speed, and really perform much better than just in the duplex space, which I'll I still buy duplexes to this day, but uh it basically came down to I wanted something that I could self-manage and run in that way. Okay. Like I've got a virtual assistant that helps me out with that, but something that I can kind of control a little bit more and run with. And the storage model, even though it's very saturated, difficult to get into, and it's got a lot of high pressure on it. It's been the pretty girl at the dance floor for the last eight years or ten years or so. Yeah. It's one where um I thought it would it and it is a simpler business model in some way, where like we're coming up on Thanksgiving here soon, and people may have not started their oven for six months, and their ovens broke the night before, and getting that stuff done where it avoids some of those headaches. And um it just seemed like a simpler business model. I've talked to a few different people, uh, wholesaled a little bit um with those to kind of get into it and really leaned on a few people that really helped me out. And I got into it based upon that. And it's got its own fair share of problems and headaches, just like anything does. But uh it was just a simpler business model for me.
SPEAKER_00:Nice. So there's a couple things I want to point out there, Joe, that I think are interesting for the audience out there. You know, you're out you're very curious, is what I'm hearing. You're you're asking the questions like, how can I accomplish this, right? How can I accomplish this goal? And I think anybody listening to this podcast probably has asked themselves, some form or fashion, how to create a different life for themselves. And they found real estate, some way, shape, or form. That's how they got there. And that's really one of the superpowers I find with entrepreneurs in general, especially in the real estate space, is we're always asking, like, well, how somebody else did this, how could they do it? I want to do something different with my life. I don't want to live the normal nine to five, retire at 65 with a 401k, drive around for a couple of years and die model, right? Like we are generally wired, I found, and which is why I love talking to real estate investors in this podcast, it's so much fun, is because I get to talk to guys like you who are curious, right? The other thing you mentioned in there was mentors. So this comes up on a lot of episodes. You know, get getting mentorship for a lot of people is key in this business. And so talk a little bit about the mentorship piece of this and what did that look like? How did you find the mentor? What were you seeking a specific person out and paid that person? Like, talk a little bit about that mentorship that you received.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um real estate, like any other business or job, comes down to the skills that you're able to build. And so I had some skills that came from you know my previous jobs that were like teaching, coaching, bartending. I was in a little bit of sales with an insurance job, you know, things like that. And so I was able to take that, but I knew that I was missing a lot on financing, um property management, like all these things that I don't have skills in. So the easiest way is the who not how, just go to somebody who has those and get and get that information and try to give value back however I can. Um so I've actually never paid for mentorship. Okay. Um which like I wouldn't be opposed to if I found the right group. But like that's one of the f I am not good at many things, but one of the few things I'm alright at is shaking somebody's hand, having a good conversation, and trying to find out what they need and try to help them out from there. So the mentors I've gotten to know, um, which they're not maybe official mentors, but it's just people that are a season or two in front of me that I can just call if I have a specific problem. And then um the biggest thing that helps there is just taking action on what they say, reporting back, and then just doing it again, where um that's been the thing that just really helps, where if you just take action on what people say, yeah, and even if it sounds confusing, just do it. Yeah, report back. It it means it means the world to people. So that's just what I've done.
SPEAKER_00:Gosh. Joe, that's such gold, right there. I uh one of our early mentors was Caleb Hayes, who a lot of people know Caleb. He was like he's kind of like the godfather almost of real estate in Green Bay. Like he's like a little bit younger than me, and he was just when I got into real estate, man, he was killing in the flip space, and he owns brokerages here in northeast Wisconsin for the Keller Williams branch. And he was he was the guy that was doing the flips, and he had a system and he had a team, and it was just like he's in just kind of it looked like just scratching checks and and pointing people in directions, and they were doing it, right? And I was like, I I want to learn from this guy. So Carrie and I we sought out a mentorship with him and just like, can we just meet this guy? Right? Like, let's just meet him. It would be great to just see if he would sit down with us for a little bit. And then it's like the always that I think the hard part, Joe, you talked about this is like, what do I have to give back to this guy? Like, I don't have anything. I'm coming in from this with nothing to give to you. And he was just the most gracious, amazing guy. He decided that he wanted to mentor us. And he said, basically, there's a book out there, and I can't remember what it is. Oh gosh, this is gonna drive me nuts. But it talks about basically the mentorship piece. It's a fo it's like a fictional story, but it's all these lessons in it. And one of the lessons there is like, I'm gonna give you advice, go do it. If you don't do it, don't come back next month. And he had that same mentality. It was, he would, and he told us that straight up. He's like, All right, you're gonna go get a bookkeeper and you're gonna get uh CRM. And if you don't do those two things, don't show up next month for our meeting. And we're like, holy cow, this guy's and he didn't charge us, it was just there for free. We're like, okay, we gotta do this, we gotta do this. And so we're like, we're not big enough to have a bookkeeper right now, we don't even have hardly a business. But like I we have to do it because if we don't, we lose this mentorship. Like, this is crazy. So it's such a good point. There's so many people that I talked to over the years that want to take time, they want advice, and I love doing it. I love coaching people. This is part of the reason I do this podcast. But then if they don't do the action, I'm like, I don't want to take my time to sit and talk to you again next month. I like you, you're a nice person, but yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Which, like, that's a good point to per every single person I've talked to this couple seasons in front. I don't think even once they've really asked for anything specifically where it's like um specific deals or money. Obviously, they want to keep keep them in mind for stuff, but I think what they get out of it more than anything is they see a version of themselves where it's like, I wish I would have had this, and they just want somebody who's gonna take action. So if you're just willing to just if they say read this book and download the CRM, do those like in a shorter time than what they even expect, and just show back up and they're gonna be like, Oh great, and they're gonna dump, they're gonna keep dumping. Exactly. And it's uh and I you know, just like you do, I try to do the same thing with folks at Whisper Year, you know, when I was at your meeting the other day, and it's it's awesome.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I what is that? Do you think that's what it is, Joe? Because I as you're talking about them reflecting, like, why do I like coaching people? And I I have guys in my network that want me to, you know, join. There's a guy that I know that was actually a really good mentor for us that we paid for early on, and he's gone on and created a whole coaching program for coaches in the real estate space or any health space or whatever. And he's always texting me, hey, when are you gonna when are you gonna be a coach and whatever? And I I did for a little bit. We have the Burr for Beginners course, which I've talked about on here before. We used to charge for that. I used to do like group coaching with it and all these kinds of things. And there was something about charging for it that I didn't like as far as like the one-on-one coaching thing. Um, what is that? What do you think that is? You think that it's just like we we see ourselves as a younger version and somebody helped us, so now we want to help somebody else, or what what do you think that is?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like and I don't do any coaching, but I'm like if I were to let's just say I I understand the principle of putting some money behind it because it like just weeds out people that aren't gonna take action. So it kind of is like a pre-filter for that. So like it's great at doing that. But I yeah, to boil it down to one thing, it's I think they see some like a version of themselves in the past that they didn't have or they want to give back just like other people did to them and pay it forward, and it's all abundance mindset where people just want to be helpful. Um I don't know, like people a lot of people default that way. You drop your keys in the store, your wallet, most of the time, you know, they're like, Oh, hey, sir, ma'am, can you drop this type of it's just that on steroids are a higher level. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Well, and I would say don't discredit yourself either, Joe, because you coach people all the time. You're just not officially coaching them, right? I think that's kind of what I'm referring to, too, is like if somebody takes, you know, somebody calls me up and wants advice, I'm happy to give it. But if they don't follow through or follow up, and then they want more advice later on something else, I'm probably gonna, you know, deflect and you know, do do something else that I think is probably more valuable with my time. So and I I would imagine you probably do some similar version of that. Again, Whisco Re is a form of that, right? Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Well, and um like uh you mentioned at the beginning there, the uh deal analysis, uh the deal breakdown meeting. I was at that one last year that you guys had, it was great. And just being able to run through that stuff, it's all about the fundamentals and seeing people go through that and being able to help in that way, because again, I didn't it to a certain extent, I I didn't have a lot of that you know early on, and these groups are great to be able to do that in a way where you don't have to buy a bunch of packers tickets or like all these things for like gifts. Like, what do they need? It's just uh just take action and be a good human.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Maybe that's us being just northwest Wisconsin nice to people. I don't know. Maybe that's just the culture around here, I'm not sure. But anyway, let's pivot back to the storage unit thing because this is an area that's uh fuzzy for some people. You you just briefly touch on that. You talked about the uh being able to force appreciation was a big motivating factor for you. For those people that don't quite understand it, you just kind of briefly touched it for the newer folks out there, the sales approach versus the appraisal bigger approach. Talk a little bit about that and why that was important to you.
SPEAKER_01:So larger multifamily, like uh units of five or more um storage businesses, like they're evaluated on like a cap rate essentially, where it's just net OI or net operating income and just how much you're able to produce and think that's what it's worth. So if you're able to uh let's just go quick round numbers, these won't be quite accurate, but for quick round math, let's just go, let's say you can rent a storage unit at$100 and you're able to raise the rent to$120 and you have the same expenses, the business is worth 20% more. Uh versus if I did the same, if I had rent and a duplex for 1,000 and I raised them to 1200, it doesn't do anything. But if I had an eight-unit building or a twenty-unit or go larger from there, the math is all still the same thing. So it's just where I can be directly rewarded and quicker for the work I do, the systems and everything else. Um and that was again the main thing that caused me to take a look at that were uh it just was gonna help my scalability and I can control the value more than just the generic market. Yeah. Um because even if like we had a market crash or something, I can still control my business, try to keep rent high, deliver more value, whatever it is, to be able to um get through tougher times or take advantage of good times, and that kind of drove that. But to your point, the um the value is what I can control there on those larger assets. And yeah, like if I would have tried to start getting into storage, maybe I would have been successful, like maybe I would have been successful, maybe not. But like duplexes were such a great place to start because there's so many and it's fairly easy where you can house hack, you can get into them, and then whenever you're ready, get into a storage or larger multifamily. Um, because and you know, like there's a lot of different podcasts that are like, you know, try to people will come on and they're like, yeah, my first unit was a 12 unit. I think those are the anomaly and not the not the rule. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So you your advice out there if somebody's brand new trying to start out would not be trying to start in storage out of the gates or a big multifamily, is what I'm hearing.
SPEAKER_01:Correct. Um, and you can obviously make arguments get that against that, but I would I would be recommending that, or I would be echoing what you're saying there. Just due to you can cut your teeth a little bit. It's just so much easier to get it get into it where bankers are gonna treat you more seriously, even if you have a duplex or two and you want to then jump right into a 12 unit, you have the banking relationships, you understand how to analyze a deal, uh, you have a little bit of experience, you have connections and contractors, maybe property management, uh, all those things where it just gives you such a shield to be able to wait wield, it's just so much better. And on top of it, talking to the sellers alone, they're running a business, they're a little more um educated is not the right word, but they just understand more. Where if you don't if you can't talk storage with them, they're not gonna treat you seriously, and even if you make a great offer, they're not gonna respect it. Right. Versus if you're like, Yeah, I've got a good handful of duplexes, even, and I'm looking to get into storage, it's like, oh, like you understand rents and uh eviction and all that process because you still have some elements that same thing with a larger unit.
SPEAKER_00:Right. It's kind of like we talked about with the with paint charging for mentorship, right? That's kind of almost your price of entry is you got to have some kind of commitment to it first, and then those people that are maybe more financially savvy are gonna are gonna respect you more and that kind of thing. I think that's great advice for anybody out there listening to this. That jumping, I've I've I've seen where you know we used to have a mastermind that we ran, kind of going back to the coaching thing, and um we had our good buddy Logan Rankin come in, and he was one of our facilitators uh who would help us with the mastermind. And I I remember we had a couple people in there that now looking back at it, I almost regret having Logan in there because um not for the facilitating piece, but we had Logan do a presentation on you know running numbers and multifamily and just kind of over in general. And he didn't embell, I mean, if you guys know Logan, he's a straight shooter, he's just gonna tell you how it is, but he's also a unicorn. Like the guy's an absolute animal. He's brilliant. And what ended up happening is some of the folks left there, they were killing it with duplexes and triplexes and single fams. And when I say killing it, I'm talking base hits and doubles. You know, they're not hitting home runs with these, but they're building up nice financial security for themselves. They're getting some cash flow coming in. It's they're not biting off more than they can chew, right? It's sustainable, it's slower, but it's sustainable growth. And all of a sudden they went shiny object syndrome, and they went right after these big multifamilies. And some of these people didn't do another deal after that because they were so focused on trying to kill the elephant that they missed all these base hits that were passing them by left and right. The other downside of that is one of the folks actually did go ahead and get into some bigger stuff. And just like you said, when rents go up by 20%, great, your business is worth 20% more. But when they go down or your expenses go up 20% and your income doesn't support that, it's exponentially the same effect on the opposite side of things. And they weren't able to have the capital to be able to fund some of these bigger rehabs that came up when units needed to be turned and some of the other things, and it sunk them. Like they're out of the game now because of that. And so I think to your point, Joe, on the on the starting at the duplex and smaller stuff level, I think that's such a smart move financially when you're starting out to just hit the singles and and doubles until you really feel like you've got a really good grasp on everything and you can you can handle things. And st I still take singles and doubles all day long if I can get them. And if I can get an elephant now, I will. But I'm not gonna sit around waiting for an elephant. I'm gonna keep hitting those singles and doubles.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's like the um there's a movie called The Gambler. Uh and have you seen it?
SPEAKER_00:I think so. Is this an older movie?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's got uh Mark Wahlberg in it. I love Wahlberg. Um, yeah, he's great. And there's a f one of my favorite scenes, uh, not just from that movie, but like pretty much all movies, is I forget the gentleman's name, but they're sitting down talking about building your base. And how Mark spoiler alert, but you know, Mark Wahlberg had built up you know two, three million dollars and blew it all. And he's just like, anybody knows you get two million bucks, you get a roof over your head, you buy a Jap economy, you know, crap box, you know, type vehicle, and you put the rest in the market at three to five percent, and he's like, that's your base, and never screw up your base. He's like, Everybody knows that. Yeah, he's like so. It's it's the whole thing where if you build a base, and obviously it depends on your risk profile. For sure. You can build a base on small multifamily or flipping and keep that going, and then you can dip your toe into the larger, bigger projects, so don't bet the farm in order to try to get it done or take your eye off what's been working for you, build another because it's it's a whole different skill set where I've I can share some embarrassing, embarrassing stories about dumb stuff I've done in the storage world, but you have to make those mistakes. But if I didn't have my base, I wouldn't have been able to make those and figure that out. Um where yeah, like if you're gonna go from managing, let's just say uh 10 units, five duplexes, um, you can be just an okay manager and have a few things down. And if once you go to a 12-unit building, it's entirely different, or 24 or something big, where you need to be dialed in on management, like you're you're not just an investor, like your skill is a very good manager, or you have a lot of cash, or like you have to have something really good going for you. So if your cash is tight and you're not a good manager, anything happens, you're gonna be setting yourself up poorly. And so build that base and keep it.
SPEAKER_00:100%. And and on another episode I had with uh one of my buddies Jimmy Vreeland, he's out of Kansas City, but I had him on here because he's he's kind of a coach and he has he does a lot of he used to do turnkey down in Kansas City. So for those of you guys that don't know what turnkey is, basically we don't have really anybody around here that provides turnkey services, but um basically for the audience out there, he would he would go source the product, source the real estate deal. He he goes and fixes it up, and then he's basically selling a fixed up or turnkey product to say somebody who's got a high net worth and just needs some passive income. Pretty predictable, right? And all that sort of stuff. But they're putting 20% down, they're paying him for the management on it, you know. So he's making income a couple different ways. He's basically flipping it to that high net worth individual. He's getting the management fees monthly on it, right? And those sort of things. He's gone away from that now, and he's does more of like a burkey, he calls it. And but what he talks about in that episode, and and I him and I are very aligned in this is like if you have a cash machine, quote unquote, so you're uh you got a high-paying job, you're killing it in in flips, let's say, you got something that's spitting off a lot of cash, you can afford to take some of those bigger risk, like you're talking about, Joe. Yeah, if if you don't have that and you're relying on some rental, some income per se, or things are tight, or you had some big couple of remodels, like just don't bet the farm on these big things because it can sink you. It's it's you're going from like you talked about, you're going from a duplex, which is pretty you can you can just buy it and hire a management company, and it'll be fine. But when you buy a 12-unit, uh 18, 20 unit, whatever, you're literally buying a business. Like it's a functioning operating business that you're buying. And if you don't know how to run a business, you're gonna struggle. Like for us, the my rentals, they're very I'm very passive in them, admittedly, and I need to do a much better job of being more involved in it. But we have our wholesale flip business, which garners most of my attention. It's the cash machine, it's what pays all the bills and all that sort of stuff. And so for me and my strategy right now in this moment, the rentals are like more of the long-term wealth. We're paying debt off, we're building equity. The cash flow per se wasn't the goal when I bought them, right? That wasn't, I didn't need the cash flow from it. But if I ever wanted to exit my cash machine, I'd I damn sure better have my cash flow coming in from those rentals. So I would really have to get dialed in on income, expenses, and all that sort of stuff if I needed to live off of that income, if it was important. Otherwise, I'm gonna be sunk too.
SPEAKER_01:And I've I've been asked this at Wisco Ria. Maybe you have as well. I'd love to you I'd love your thoughts. But I think the follow-up question then is well, how do I know when I'm ready? And so what I've told people is good, you know, let's say you've got um, let's pick a number, but 10 units or so, and you're self-man you're so whether you're self-managing or hiring out management, um, how do you know when you're ready for that next jump? It's let's say it was taking you, let's pick a number, but like 40 hours a week to do all this. Once you can get it down to where it's subs, you have obvious holes in your schedule, and you have the income or the money problem solved, which it could be a money partner, it could be a number of different things. But if you have the money spot and you have active holes in your schedule, that's when you start filling those holes with building the skills towards the next thing. Whether it's making those calls yourself, bringing on an acquisitions person, like whatever it is, uh dialing in management, building SOPs, that's where you fill in your time. You don't take your eye off the main thing. Do you have any any thoughts on that?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I would I would totally 100% echo that. I think also just financially speaking, kind of to add on to that is I would I would encourage everybody to have a good six-month to a year runway on what they've got. So some surplus of capital uh that they have availability to ideally cash, so you're not going further in the hole that you can no longer get out of at some point, right? You know, HELOX, I love HELOCs, you'll hear me talk about HELOX all the time, but you got to have some capital reserves there if you're looking to make some kind of big play like this of just cash, just straight cash that you can tap into that's not gonna cost you arm and a leg if you got a pinch and you needed to use it. So I think that's where building having a cash cow or cash machine or a high-paying job or whatever the case is, you know, living under your means and storing up a lot of that cash reserve gives you that base that we were kind of talking about to be able to make some of these riskier moves or dive into something new. There's gonna be a learning curve. You're gonna take your licks no matter what you jump into for the first time. And if you've got that capital reserve base, you can afford to take some licks and some risks and not have to know everything about everything. Like the other opposite side of that, Joe, you've seen this do is analysis paralysis. You know, people are also so risk averse, they won't even buy the duplex because what if something goes wrong? And again, I think if you have a nice solid financial base or you have something that can kick some cash off, at least for you, to cover some mistakes, you can afford to take some risks and call it call it your tuition, right? If you're gonna if you're gonna learn. Because nobody's you're never gonna hit some people hit home runs their first one and it's so annoying. You're like, come on, man, how'd you get so lucky to get that first one? Because now it's gonna ruin you when you do the next one and you hit a base hit. You're gonna get jaded and be like, oh, what I made a hundred thousand on this flip over here. Now I only made 20. This sucks. You know, when when when they were starting out, they probably would have been tickled pink to make an extra 20 grand. Um, but having that, I think having that financial base, having solid access to cash before you jump into something like a multifamily or a storage unit complex or something like that, not only are you gonna be more bankable and probably get better terms on it, but you're gonna feel a lot more comfortable being able to make that that jump.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And self-admittedly, like when I first started and I was uh investing with my brother at the time, which we still do stuff together, but we kind of do our own things now, and we still can't do stuff together. But we we went risk on early on, where we you know we were um hard money and in uh with Tony and stuff like that, and then we were refinancing out with the bank doing the burr, and we were we were making it work, but it was tight. And where now that I have that base, like when I've got these two smell, I've got three storage facilities, but the two most specifically that were like a bigger deal where I borrowed private money on and I wanted to refi them out and all that. I didn't do I was in a stabilization period where I didn't really do much for deals. I did a few where I sold them off where I bought them in and uh flipped them quick and stuff like that. But I didn't bring in any Yeah, I don't think I did a single buy and hold deal besides 1030 oneing, um, which is a separate thing, but I didn't add any new stuff for almost a year where it was a big stabilization year for the whole portfolio, but I'm in a really good spot now where now I've got I just closed on three different deals over the last couple of years. Wow. It's awesome. Really kind of waited where the investor in me like really wanted just to keep going, but it was like, well, I've just been grow, grow, grow, let's stabilize, and then we can grow, grow again. And so for anybody that's thinking about that too, like don't worry, you can press the pause button, whatever, even if it's on your first one, like the questions like what if the roof or the furnace? It's like, well, you can absorb those be in a spot where you can absorb those payments, and then you can always just buy later. But the thing is you're gonna build that skill, and I needed to build the skill of self-storage.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. How did you how did you afford to live during that period? Because this is your full-time gig, right, Joe? I mean, you're not yeah, you're not doing anything else outside of this. So, what were how were you covering living expenses and all those other things during that stabilization period? Was the cash flow doing it? Was there flips going on outside of that? What was that like?
SPEAKER_01:I do a few shows for my brother Kevin still, which is like a sales job, but it's very sporadic. Where uh a quick example of that would be like EAA or like a Wisconsin State Fair. We do a few of those, so I can kind of customize that schedule. And I live quite frugally. Um I can go pull this laptop off and I can show you pictures of my cars, but they're not uh they're not fancy. Okay. And so I I live very frugally where you know beans, rice, and some chicken and broccoli, and I'm happy. You know, three two, three bucks a meal and I'm good. Like things like that where I have not um I keep my expenses down. Nice. Uh I did sell one deal that we ended up taking profits on where it just kind of worked out that way, where I would have worked harder for a flip, or I would have tried to wholesale more or something during that period. Um probably should have, and hindsight doing some of that, but I would have taken my eye off the storage ball, I guess. Right. And um, yeah, so I kind of did a little bit of both of those where it was a selling of one, and then capital gains helped out there where didn't have to pay much, and then um in terms of taxes, and then had those that show income that I can live off of. Cool. Thankfully only living working a few shows a year.
SPEAKER_00:Nice, that's awesome, dude. What about somebody out there listening to this show and they're like, cool, okay, so you gotta have this financial base before you can, you know, take some of these bigger jumps into some storage or multifamily, what we're saying. How does somebody out there? I know somebody out there listening to this is like, great guys, awesome, you have these cash machines or whatever you're calling, but how do I get started? Like, how do I go from you know, hitting paycheck to paycheck? That's the reason I want to get into real estate, right? Is so that I can get ahead. In your opinion, what is what is that advice you would give to somebody out there listening to this that's in that in that position?
SPEAKER_01:This might be different than what other people would say, but I would say that you need to work on your in your income side is the most important thing because that's what's gonna drive your ability to invest. Even if you have a money partner and stuff like that, like it just really helps to have some capital because real estate is a capital intensive business. Um so it depends on what your current job is. Do you want to stay there? Are you looking for a new opportunity? So, like, let's just say you want to flip houses and you want that to be a source of income. Well, if you don't have an additional, I don't know, 20 grand at least or something for reserves, like you need that 20 grand first, is what I would say. Because again, if something does go wrong, you can't you're gonna have whether it's using private money, hard money, or a bank's money, you are borrowing somebody else's money and you need to be a good steward of that, more so than even of your own money for sure if you're and so maybe it's waiting four months, six months. Maybe you're there's better opportunities, but like delivering pizzas, but like start a painting business or something, whatever it is to generate that extra 20 grand or more or whatever it takes for that job and build up that reserve base is what you need to do first. And it doesn't you don't need a hundred grand, but like you need a base and or partner with another investor who's a little more experienced, you give them what per whatever percentage of the deal, you just learn as much as you can. Um, maybe they're bringing the money, but you learn all that stuff. I'll pick random numbers here. So let's say they're 70 and you're 30, but you bring in the deal and you just want to be a fly on the wall. That's a great way to get in if you don't have the capital, but you can still bring value in other ways. Um, whereas helping to get quotes, uh helping with uh getting the financing done, being a co-signer. Um, and the deal itself is so valuable because in this market is difficult to find a deal. So if you bring the deal, you have value, and don't be afraid to partner with somebody if that helps get you further than if you wouldn't take the deal and your deal less.
SPEAKER_00:For sure. Typically there's two different types of people. The person that's starting out, right, they're gonna be the grinder, they're gonna be the the worker. You're you're gonna build the quote unquote the sweat equity, is what we just call it, right? And then you've got somebody like the veteran you're talking about, who's gonna be probably the financier, if that's a real word. And um, they're gonna be the one that doesn't really want to work that hard anymore. Like they just want to scratch some checks and and be an investor. And so you're gonna have to bring some kind of physical skill set probably to that, whether that's as Joe's, you mentioned getting quotes and kind of project managing, or if you actually are handy and you can swing hammers and do that kind of stuff, you're gonna be in there probably putting some hours in doing the actual physical labor in some of those cases. But to your point, you know, it you gotta do what you gotta do. How bad do you want it, right? What's your intensity level? That's another thing Logan always stuck with me. He always would talk about is like, how bad do you want what's your intensity level of this goal? Are you at a 10? A 10 means you will literally work nights, weekends, mornings, lunch breaks, whatever you have to do to get ahead. Five is like, yeah, I'll work a little bit, but I'm okay if I get there three, five years down the road. You know, it's not that intense for you. You're not willing to sacrifice a lot. And there's no wrong answer on that scale, but I think it's important for people to be honest with themselves when they're having that discussion of where do they see themselves on the intensity level scale? And then what is that going to require? So if you're at the higher end of that, that's gonna require, like as Joe, you're talking about your intensity level for your goal. Sounds like it's pretty high because you're driving, you know, whatever you're driving, you're eating rice and beans, you know, you're making sacrifices in your life to reach that level. Where I think a lot of people out there, if they're not being honest with themselves, they may say they really want it bad, but are their actions backing it up? And as I'm saying that, I'm having some self-reflection right now of going, hmm, I need to reevaluate my intensity level of my goal right now, you know, because some of my actions I take don't reflect with what I say I want as far as you know, income goals or passive goals or those types of things. So I I think it is important for us just to reflect on that, whatever our goals are, is how badly do we want it on that one to ten scale. And then the higher it is, the more sacrifice we got to make.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. And for people out there that may if you haven't done a deal yet, maybe you don't know entirely what you can bring to the table because you don't know all of what needs to be brought, which is just a it's a simple skill thing, and you can get there, no worries. But it's showing up to like an REI success meeting or a Wisconsure meeting. Let's say we're at REI success um a couple um Tuesdays from now, and you're at that um that deal breakdown. It's just show up with a couple things where it's like, what can you bring to the table? This is what I'm looking to do, and sit down with Corey, myself, or any other investor who's more experienced that you align with and just say, Hey, this is what I got. I don't have a deal, but I want a deal. I'm at an eight out of ten. I really want this. And they will help walk you through like this is what we're gonna need, these 10 items. I'll take these seven, you take these three. We could split something, and we'll figure it out later. We need at least$30,000 and spread or whatever the number is. And within, I promise, it's like within 10 minutes, you can really figure out you'll get so much clarity, and that's such a good activity that'll get you out of that analysis paralysis. Sit down with somebody at one of these meetings, it'll really help you out.
SPEAKER_00:That's so good. It's so interesting because like when I network with people, so uh another in another light, we're at the REI success meeting the other night, and somebody was there who had bought a business, right? Know this person intimately, trust them 100%. And their their their problem, we talked about this would all happen within five minutes. The problem they're talking about is they the person that they bought the business from seller financed it to them, and they're the that person's just a pain in the butt to deal with, they're always in their business, that you know, they're getting their payments, but they're just kind of an like it's like it'd be like a Wells Fargo coming to talk to you about your house every month. Like, hey, did you did you clean yesterday in your house? Because I need you know, it was just annoying to this person. And so I said, Well, what you know, what is the interest rate you're paying, and so on and so forth. And and what is the amount you need to pay this person off and make them go away? Like, I'll step in, I'll be your lender, boom, done, 10 minutes, problem solved. From sitting at you know, at a table, having a conversation like that. The same thing, Joe, what you're saying is it some people it could be shockingly quick how fast your your success can grow by putting yourself out there, getting vulnerable, uh, being humble, being willing to take action and have conversations with people who are in that next phase where you want to be. And um it's amazing how quickly it can it can take place for you.
SPEAKER_01:And it's the same thing, like for me, uh I'm still learning these things too, where it's just you're trying to find somebody one or see one or two seasons in front of you. You don't need to hit the biggest person on Instagram or whatever it might be. And like just to share something that helped me, like I was sitting down with my buddy Blaine, and he has a season or two in front of me, and uh I was like, I really want to tackle the storage side of things, and I've made a thousand phone calls and I'm close on some of these, but I'm just not there. And the biggest thing that he was you know, sh spread light on, which was so obvious, but it's like write off like write more offers and know the deal before you're calling them, which is a lot more important. And that's like how I got you know, these two that I just refined out and everything. It was like I you know, uh I dated the uh the seller in a way where I kept calling back, and it was just I on the third phone call, uh, a year later, I just wrote the offer and I'm like, I'm gonna write you something, do what you want with it, but I'm I am serious and I want to get this done, and they ended up countering back just slightly higher, and boom, we got it done. No way, dude. It's it it's the same thing where no matter where you're at, like now. Um if I really wanted to scale up hard in um self-storage, which I do, it's talking to people around me that have done a little bit more, right? Finding the holes and taking action on. Yeah, everybody needs to do that, is all I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00:That's so good, man. That one conversation in your lifetime, Joe. If you had to anticipate, let's say you hold this thing for a period of time and you sell it. What will that one deal do you think net over that lifespan that you'll probably own this thing? Sale, refinance, how long I want to hold whatever.
SPEAKER_01:Like that's it was a million-dollar phone call. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_00:And that came from one conversation of an idea this Blaine point put in your head that all of a sudden it clicked, and you're like, Oh, let me try that. Oh, from going to going to networking and asking. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So talk a little bit about that strategy because I'm interested in that. So, what exactly was he saying when you said do the homework first? What was that? Take us through what that, what he meant by that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, because he's got a bunch of units and he gets people that call him all the time or mail him or whatever. And everybody wants to talk about the deal and take a 30-minute conversation of like what are the bathrooms like and all this other stuff. And he's like, I don't take these phone calls anymore unless they can just comfortably write an offer, like, it's good, minor cosmetics to your 5k a unit, what's your offer? And it not that you need it right then, but he's like, send it to me later tonight or whatever you got, and just nobody will then make an offer. And so putting a signature on it, and obviously you can schedule some due diligence, it's not like you're locking yourself into something, but just being able to do that. So on the storage side, it was building the skill of okay, if I can get three these three questions in and that's it, under five-minute conversation, I can write an offer that I'm 95% sure is going to be very close unless all the doors are messed up or something, which that's a simple drive-by could solve. And it's the same thing for a duplex or anything else. If you know your comps and you know your ARVs, and you know quick budget number, like doing that deal breakdown, I keep coming back to that is so valuable because that's like one of the base skills is just knowing a rehab. If you know it's um um light, medium, heavy, let's go super easy. Yeah. If it's if you got a duplex you're buying and it's gonna be a light rehab, so you figure 10 grand back into it off your numbers, you know, take your percentages out, whatever you need to make it worth your while, which we can dive in on those if you want. But let's say it's 80 uh 80% minus repairs, ARV, boom, punch it out. That's your number. Maybe take an extra five percent off and fire that over. And if you do a hundred of those, I guarantee you're gonna wind up with some deals.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, that is gold, gold, gold, Joe. Like I just I'm writing that down. I'm implementing that today, uh, because I don't do that. And as you're talking about that, you know, with I found this with like single family duplex people, you know, the not the not the investor that you're talking to, the rent, the landlord person necessarily, but maybe owner-occupied people. I found a lot of success in getting belly to belly with those people before we write an offer because over the phone, they might not treat it as seriously. Like, well, how could you even write an offer without looking at my property, right? And valid, I would think the same thing if I was gonna sell my house. Like, this is can't be serious. I know you there's no way you're gonna close on this. But to your point, when you get five units and above, it's just numbers, it's just net operating income at that point, and you apply a cap rate to it, it's actually much simpler than single family stuff and trying to decipher a comp of what is this is this house similar? Is this how it's very much much simpler? And so to know those numbers ahead of time, and these investor people are valu like I think about myself as a seller, just like you talk about Blaine. If somebody called me and they want to sit and talk for 30 minutes, I'm like, dude, I ain't got time for this. Like, what do you what are you offering me, dude? Give me a number. What do you have? You know, that is such gold, Joe. That might be my that might be one of my favorite nuggets I ever got on the podcast. So thank you for that.
SPEAKER_01:For sure. And let's like, well, that's it's like breaking it like three steps. So that's skill one you're trying to build.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Where it's to offer. So what do you need to be able to make an offer? Let's say it's not totally written up, but like to come up with your number, how can you have that done within a very short time period of let's say three to five questions? Yeah. Where you could say that on the phone to this person, hey, I just have three questions for you. Answer these, and I'll be able to get you an offer tonight. Um, it's not gonna be exact, but like I'm gonna try to get as close as I can. You'll be able to see my terms, all this stuff, I'm showing you how serious I am. Boom. So you've taken away a lot of objections right off the bat. So that's your first initial skills being able to make that offer. Second skill is gonna come from the objections that follow. What are the most common things that people say? Let's say you call 20 different sellers and you get the same three objections, which are one this is a low ball, why should I be treating this seriously? Two, um, I don't like these terms, and then three I need to talk to my wife or whatever about it. Yeah, like picking three at random here. So then it's just you build the skill of answering the three most common questions. So if it's like the offer, it's like, well, I just wanted to show I want to show you my terms, which you saw. Did you have any objections on those? Yes or no? And then it's like, okay, it's a price thing. Well, if I can walk this, if I can meet you, shake your hand, and walk this, I can give you a real number that I will stand by, and it's probably gonna be higher than that one. You you wouldn't respect me if I just gave you something closed on a blind. So what do we got to do? And like you just hit the three objections, so boom, that one's done. Once it now you got two big skills, yeah. So you're almost at the finish line, then your last one is just closing. And so part of that's in your terms of your contracts like can you close? And then that comes back to what we originally talking about with the money and everything else. Do you have the wherewithal? And once you had those three together, go make a hundred of those, and you're gonna learn a ton, and you're probably gonna come out with a deal.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, that is much gold, man. That is incredible. I again, I'm gonna go back and probably re-listen to this thing a few times, but uh, dude, I appreciate that so much. And the audience out there, that is my probably my favorite nugget I've ever gotten on an episode. I'm gonna implement it right away. I encourage you guys to do the same thing. If you're making any kind of you know, direct-to-seller contact, that is that is huge. And even agents, I would say probably yo, that could be applicable to working with agents too. If you know your numbers and your your stuff, like they're gonna be they're gonna be much more willing to take you seriously, right?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, 100%. Like, yeah, if you're an agent, you could be a painter, you could be a roofer. Um, you know, you can get so much information these days, like it's it's easier now than it's ever been just because like you can measure a roof on people. So if you're a roofer, boom, you could give like blind quotes and just mail those out with an exact number of what you can roughly start to start at. If you're a realtor, you can know your comps and like give a proposition that would be valuable to them, and again, you're just mass marketing there, but it's that solving that offer, which a lot of this I actually got from like Alex Hermosy, which is yeah, in combination with that blame conversation where it's like, what's your offer? And so he's got a great book, um, hundred million dollar offers, uh, which is more business related. So, yeah, again, if you're a realtor or um uh like painter or something, it's really good for that stuff, but it over overlaps well with the investor side, and uh very good. Again, hundred million dollar offers. It's free on his podcast, he uploads it all for free, or it's like 30 bucks on Amazon. Phenomenal read. I've got it right upstairs. Awesome, dude. So, anyways, I hope that helps.
SPEAKER_00:And well, it helps me. I don't care if anybody else listens to this episode now, because I got what I need. It's so interesting though, because I talk about people sharing this episode or listening to this, you know, all that kind of stuff. It's like these little nuggets that I take away from doing the podcast, like that alone right there, Joe, probably could make me millions of dollars, what you just gave me right there. So I appreciate that, man. I appreciate that. I get that first deal doing that. I'll I'll maybe get you a little equity in it or something for for your troubles here today.
SPEAKER_01:But I've Cory, I've learned so I've learned so much from you as well, man. And it's one of those where it, you know, even though you're a few seasons beyond me kind of thing, it you can always learn stuff and uh just uh share what works and I appreciate the times I've learned from you as well, and I appreciate the kind words.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, absolutely, man. Well, it's been fun seeing you and your brother, Kevin. I love you guys. You guys are amazing uh ambassadors for for all of us real estate investors in this area. In fact, I was talking to another investor that I was like, oh, I was really excited you were gonna be on today. And uh we just had a good you guys have such such a great reputation, and I don't know if you guys know this because you know, you're not in those conversations, obviously. But I've never talked to anybody that's like, yeah, that Joe G guy. Watch out for him, man. He's you know, so it's that's part of I think a lot of people in our in our network, I would say, of real estate investors. We're pretty blessed here in Wisconsin, at least where we live. There's a lot of really high character, high integrity people in this business. There's a few bad apples out there, and it is what you're gonna have that in any industry, but I would say the from some of the horror stories I hear from some colleagues in different areas around the country with what that uh atmosphere is like. I I don't feel that typically in our area, and you guys are a big part of that, so it's good to have you in it. It's gonna be more important than your brand. That's right. That's right. Well, Joe, we always wrap, man, with one fun little question. And again, part of that is because people are like, man, this Wisconsin place, and then they got the Packers, but uh, what else they got? And they're thinking of maybe parking some capital here or partnering with us on deals or bringing some private money in or those types of things. So for somebody out there listening that isn't as familiar with Wisconsin as you and I, do you have a favorite Wisconsin tradition or place that you'd like to visit? And can you share that with us?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. Um I would say uh maybe something unique about Wisconsin because I love this state.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I was just talking about with my fiance the other day, and it's like, yeah, if we hit the lottery or yeah, whatever, you sold out everything and you just were free, what would you do? And it's like, I'd probably still live here. Yeah. Like maybe I'd have a vacation to other spots that might be warmer in February, but like I'd still stay here. I live in place. Yeah. And one of my favorite things about Wisconsin is going up to Rib Mountain, which is Granite Peak, yeah, skiing up there. Uh, you get fast lifts, and it's not going to be anything crazy challenging or long like you'd get over in the mountains in Colorado or Idaho or something. But it's a really it's really good for what we have, and you want to throw in a podcast, listen to some music, and just fly down the slopes a little bit, it's a great time. That's awesome, dude. I need to get up there more than I should.
SPEAKER_00:You know what? You're the first person in 60 some episodes show that said Rib Mountain. So kudos to you. You get a little award for that today. Yeah. But that's a good reminder for me too, because uh we I haven't been skiing since probably like eighth grade, and uh I'm embarrassed to say so, but I need to I need to get out there. My kids don't really ever want to do it, though, so I'm like, it's kind of annoying. But I might force them this year, might just make my older kids do it. Put some WD 40 on the knees and get out. That's right. I do the same thing. That's right, absolutely. Well, Joe, this has been awesome. And if people want to get a hold of you or get to know you more or or talk to you about anything that that they're going through, do you do you have a preferred method of communication and what would that be?
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, um you can always find me at Whiskerio. We're the first Tuesday of every month, and I do hit quite a few of the REI success meetings. So get get in person and um meet us there. But uh first Tuesday of every month, and from there, more individually, um, you can find me on uh Facebook, which is Joe Graciali. Uh Instagram, I have a little fun on there. I'm just branded as duplexjoe. And then the last one would be a free resource uh option that I have for folks, uh, which would be um duplexuniversity.com. Uh if you want a newsletter, I put it out occasionally. Um, and I've got a bunch of free tools on there, which is all the stuff that I kind of use anyways, and um things that I've taken from other people, change a little bit, stuff. But stuff that I use, so think financing templates, property calculator, um your port global portfolio outlook, which your banker would love to see. And um a bit of that's gonna be the financing side of things, just because as a Ria host, I get a lot of those questions, so it's just made it where I can take all those questions and say, go here and download it for free. And um, yeah, if you want some stuff that's really gonna help you out and make you look good for a banker, private money lender, or hard money lender, go on there and just download all that stuff and use it. You can change it, whatever you want to do.
SPEAKER_00:Dude, that is awesome. So, guys, those resources are an amazing opportunity. As Joe said, you know, it's you guys heard me say this a bunch, find deals and find money. What Joe's giving you guys is a free resource to really help you find that money from all those different buckets of cash and and uh available uh options for you. So go out to Duplex University, get those resources, hit Joe up if you guys have an inkling and get out to these networking events. I think we we beat that drum every episode. And um, if you're if you're not getting out there and you have the ability to highly encourage you if you're serious about this, if your intensity level is anywhere past the five, I'd say get your buns out to these networking events. And and uh not only it's not really even about the education, is it Joe? It's more about the networking, right? 100%.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, it's all about who you know, and that's the only reason I'm at where I'm at is because of the people around me.
SPEAKER_00:100%, buddy. Well, Joe, appreciate you, man. This has been awesome. I got over a million dollars worth of value out of this myself, no joke. You that that is a hundred percent serious. So, dude, I really appreciate this. And uh for those of you guys listening out there, if you got any value out of this, please like, subscribe, share, do all that fun stuff. It really helps us out, it helps us get the word out. Uh, like for example, if you if you subscribe on YouTube and then comment on some of the videos, apparently that helps us in the algorithms of of the Google world, uh, YouTube world, and um reviews. We're over 60 episodes now. I would love to get over 60 ratings and reviews on Apple. So if you guys could go out to Apple, if you like this show, give it a five star, leave us a little review of what you like most. Uh, we would love that. And most importantly, if you guys have a particular topic or a guest you want us to have on the show or a topic to talk about, please let me know that as well. We're always looking to know what's on your guys' brains, what's on your minds, what's holding you back, what are the struggles that you guys are facing, how can we help you overcome those things? So please hit me up on any of those type of topics that you'd like us to hit on the future episodes. And uh, Joe, appreciate you, man. Any final words for the audience?
SPEAKER_01:Uh go uh go take some action and hope to see you soon. Good luck. And uh we're rooting for you. Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_00:Awesome, guys. We'll see you on the next show.
