The Wisconsin Investor
Each week, we bring you interviews with some of Wisconsin's top real estate investors who share their tips, tricks, and strategies that you can implement right away. This show is dedicated to helping Wisconsin real estate investors elevate their game. Along with interviews, I'll also dive into hot topics in solo episodes and feature experts from various real estate sectors across Wisconsin.
The Wisconsin Investor
Flipping vs Rentals: What Most Investors Get Wrong
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In this episode of The Wisconsin Investor, Corey Reyment sits down with Collin Gudgeon, a senior in the University of Wisconsin–Madison real estate program, to break down what it really takes to succeed in Wisconsin real estate investing.
Collin grew up around flips and rental properties in Milwaukee and now studies commercial real estate finance, underwriting, and development in one of the country's top real estate programs. Together, Corey and Collin dive into:
• Why networking is the real “hack” in real estate
• How to win deals without offering the highest price
• The difference between flipping houses and building rental wealth
• Why cash flow can be misleading in today’s market
• House hacking strategies for young investors
• How long-term equity growth and refinancing create real wealth
If you’re investing in Madison, Milwaukee, Green Bay, Appleton, or anywhere in Wisconsin, this episode is packed with practical insight on seller negotiations, financing strategy, and building a durable portfolio.
Connect with Collin Gudgeon:
Email: collin@blackridge-co.com
Phone: 414-429-9130
Looking for off-market deals across Wisconsin?
Visit WisconsinDiscountProperties.com to join the exclusive buyer list.
Need help leasing your units? Check the link below!
What's up, everybody? It's your host, Corey Raymond, another episode of The Wisconsin Investor. Appreciate you guys tuning in today. I have an exciting episode for you guys. I love bringing young, hungry people on this podcast. Uh, and I have a special treat for you guys today. I met this gentleman a few weeks back down in Madison. He's currently a senior at Madison in the real estate program. So I'll let him talk a little bit about that. But we had a great conversation, a great breakfast. I tried to recruit him to work for us, but he's not hireable, unfortunately for me. Uh, but I said, man, I gotta have you on the podcast, bro. So without further ado, Colin, welcome to the podcast, bro. How are you doing?
SPEAKER_00I'm doing great. I really uh appreciate you having me on the pod. I've always told my friends I want my own podcast one day. So I guess this is a good intro to this. It's getting a little so I'm very excited. Thank you uh for having me on.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely, man. Absolutely. Well, tell the audience a little bit. So you're a senior at Madison, but you're already in the business. You've been in the business. You grew up in the business. So give us a little background of like your your your upbringing and you know some of the some of the things that you've been through in the real estate space.
Inside UW–Madison’s Real Estate Program
SPEAKER_00Right. Like you said, I've been in the business technically, I guess not actually since I've been six. My dad's been flipping homes before it was popular. He was driving for dollars before it was popular. I think I should tell that story at some point on the pod. Um yeah, I've been probably around. I've been visiting duplexes, multifamily units, single-family homes since I was six, seeing kind of like the management side of the flips, managing the contractors and whatnot. And I would do a lot of labor work, you know, very simple labor work. I'm not doing no tile setting or anything like that. But just around the business, seeing what needs to be done, you know, how much does this cost? How much does that cost? Seeing my dad, you know, conversing with people, whether it's on the phone or dealing with the contract. I've been around that for literally ever. Um, and then kind of moving 10 years forward, I'm like 15, 16. I'm like, Dad, I kind of I like this stuff a lot. Maybe it's because I I like me and you are similar. I don't know. I really like this. I think I think I want to be in real estate. He's like, Yeah, okay, but you can just, you know, kind of you know, hop on and be an apprentice per se. Um, and then really kind of take on a more formal role of hey, you're gonna manage the flips, you're gonna manage talking to the people, you're gonna, you know, I'm gonna have send you over here, go pick up this, go pick up the material there, you know, whatever. And then, you know, do that in high school. And I'm like, okay, like what do I want to do with my life? Because every high schooler has that. And I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna go to college because I don't know what else to do. I end up at UWM, UW Milwaukee, and I'm like, I'm I'm there for a little bit. I'm like, I don't know if this is cut in. I feel like I was gonna might drop out or something like that. It just wasn't, you know, wasn't it? Yeah, right. It wasn't mentally challenging. I know it was for my freshman year, but then I was like, I don't know. I don't know about this. Um then I found out from one of my buddies, realist Madison has a real estate program. I'm like, what is a real estate program? Right, what does that mean? Like, what am I gonna get my license from there? No, like and then I looked into it. I'm like, oh, they have the number one program in the entire country for real estate. Yeah, this is interesting. Okay, and then I looked in more into it, the real estate financing side. So I was like, I'm going there no matter what, I'm getting it. Yeah, basically dedicated six months of my life after my fresh or during my freshman year to get the get everything together to get here. And the last three years now I've uh been at Madison studying real estate and finance. Nice. I've just been doing a little bit of acquisition stuff, um, and a little bit of like I guess asset management on some flips with my dad and you know a few of his buddies as well. So I've kind of been just flirting with different people doing what different little things for them. So and now we're secure and yeah.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome, dude. I wanted there's a couple things I want to unpack here. One, I want to understand the Madison program because I'm I'm kind of like you. I was like, what do they actually like? I have a really good buddy who's uh he's doing he has like a huge business in real estate flips and everything out in Virginia, but he's a he's a Madison real estate program alum. Um but I've never really asked them like what do you actually learn in that program? Like what are they preparing people for? So mostly like commercial development, is it what is what exactly is in involved in that program?
SPEAKER_00This might be an all over the place answer, but it is more commercial. There's really there's one residential class actually, but it's it's basically all commercial, whether it's multifamily, industrial, office, hospitality, whatever it is, hotels. We've talked about it all. Like I've worked on an appraisal project for an office building downtown Madison down the street from me, right by the Capitol building. Um it was owned by uh Eric Hovedy, if you're familiar. We're able to work on like a project like that. Um, but yeah, more to to to slim it down, I'd say it's more the investment side of commercial real estate and building up the like you know the financial modeling side of it, the asset management side of things too, and you know, mainly real estate finance per se. Because you know, in a flip, it's hey, let me take it the ARV, do 75% of that, blah blah blah, all that.
SPEAKER_01Yep, yep.
SPEAKER_00Pretty simple, honestly. It's it's great, right? But then you know, there's a bunch of you know, even though it's not too hard, there's a bunch of nuances in commercial real estate, and the program kind of prepares you for like, hey, you see, there's a there's a hotel right next to me. Hey, we're gonna develop this hotel. This is how it all comes together. It basically tells you how it all comes together as one. Like you look at downtown Chicago, who's financing the debt, who's getting the equity, who's raising the money. It it basically gets you through and thinks uh makes you think through the entire process of creating a sky high building, is what I would say. Not just a home, you know what I mean? And we have a lot of people that will either go on like the debt side of things, or you know, they'll go into private equity and they're trying to maybe they're not raising capital right away, but they're then in the Excel sheet, you know, trying to cut crunch numbers on the phone with people, like, hey, yeah, no, we have this 48 unit down in Iowa. Um, we're looking to sell it. And then, you know, most people from the real estate program are analysts per se at these commercial real estate companies that'll then underwrite the deal and get back to their investment committee team and say, Hey, this is a deal, or hey, this is not a deal, and this is why, because of XYZ through the financial model. And you also see it teaches you how to do like market analysis of like, you know, what's that software called? I wish I always forget the name. Like, there's a software that you can see the walkability um of a certain location, the the the live traffic, how many people pass on this street? If you want to do a place, is this the spot for it? Is there is there 10,000 people coming or is there 50,000? You know, there's little nuances that you know they teach you. Um, and that's a long very long-winded way of saying that they teach you basically from the ground up of how to finance a deal or how to develop a deal.
SPEAKER_02That's fascinating. I just had Mason Clark on, I think he's the episode previous to When You'll Drop here, maybe two episodes back. Um, but he is a partner at Boardwalk and Parkplace Holdings, and they're they're really big up in Northeast Wisconsin here in the commercial side of things. And I mean, they're a nine, a nine-figure business. And um he went to school actually to be a um financial advisor, and he was a financial advisor for a while, and then the the gentleman who's the CEO of the company recruited him over to be like his acquisitions guy. Now he's grown into like asset management. He's kind of learned all of this stuff in the biz, right? Kind of grew up in the biz a little bit, like starting out in acquisitions, then you know, bigger role. Uh, but what you're saying, man, if I if I'm listening to this and I've got a uh freshman in high school right now and they're interested in real estate, I'm like, get your grades up and get your butt to Madison and get in this program because I'm like, dang, I wish for me, I'm like, I find that stuff fascinating. Like we were in New York, my wife and I in uh November of this last year, and I'm just looking at these buildings and I'm like, I want to build one of these. Like this would be cool. But I don't know, like I don't have the like I'd have to go back and do Madison's program.
SPEAKER_00We're gonna like, hey, you can go through your MBA or your master's. They have all right, all right.
SPEAKER_02There we go, there we go. So anyway, I think it's I think that's really really cool.
SPEAKER_00You know alumni literally everywhere Boston, New York, Chicago. I think Chicago's the biggest um alumni area, California, and real like you know this real estate's all network, it's who you know, really, at the end of the day, right? Can you get this deal financed? With my background, and I hope so. I I haven't done this yet, but I'm hoping so that my me being at this program and being an alumni of this program will then allow me a foot in the door to talk to these, maybe you know, people that finance the debt type of a thing.
SPEAKER_01For sure.
SPEAKER_00You know what I mean? And that wide base you have of the network across the country is the biggest value of the program. Like the education is great, everyone can figure out how to finance a deal, like a multifamily deal. It's not too hard, you know, there's some nuances to it, but the real value is the the relationships you make in class. Like a lot of our I don't even call them professors, I because most of them are investors or you know, they worked in the industry. Um they tell us, hey, the person to the right and left of you, you're you might deal it, do a deal with them down the line, make friends with them. We're talking with your people every day, you're talking with your your your your fellow peers every day. This isn't yeah, this isn't the finance program where, hey, you know, teacher, what's the qu like what's the answer type of thing? No, this is a discussion. You know, this is a conversation, a never-ending. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And what's interesting, Kyle, in every episode, I think we talk about the power of networking. No matter if you're doing flips, you're doing single family rentals. Well, whatever the case is, like networking is the key to the it's the it's the hack. Everybody wants a hack these days. It's the hack to speed your pro your your progress up like tenfold, uh, comparatively speaking to somebody else out there. Because uh, I know there's people out there the challenge, the easy part for guys like you and I is very easy to walk into a room. Uh for me, anyway, it's very natural for me to walk into a room of people and just start making conversations and be curious about them or what their situation is and learning and all right, tell me about this, tell me about this. And it's not a take-take-take type of a thing. It's just a I'm curious. Tell me more about how you got here. That's why I love this podcast. I get to sit and like talk cool people like you, and I get to learn from guys like you or people who are doing nine-figure businesses or people who've done four flips. Like I can learn from people on every aspect of the scale. Um, and I think the people out here listening to this that that's more of a challenge for their personality type. That, though, is the biggest skill if you're listening to this that I think you can improve on to accelerate your success is to figure out how do I get outside my comfort zone and develop those networking skills. Because it is a skill. Some people it's easier, it comes more natural for somebody like me, uh personality-wise. My son, he's 11. I take him to networking events and he's like, I gotta, I gotta pull him out of there. I'm like, bro, we gotta go home, dude. He's already cold calling at 10 years old.
SPEAKER_00I'm like, we were talking about that. Yes.
SPEAKER_02So he's already he's already naturally that way. But my daughter, if she said, Hey dad, I really love this real estate idea, I really want to do this thing, for her, it's gonna be much more challenging to build this networking muscle, and it's gonna take a lot more effort. But if she can do it, she would be able to accelerate her goals much quicker. It's not to say if you if you don't want to do that, that you can't be successful, it just may take you longer and maybe you may have to be a little bit more creative on how you get there. Right.
Why Networking Beats Highest Offer
SPEAKER_00Right. Exactly. Something to add on to that too. I was just talking about this on the phone um with my buddy. Um, the book How to Win Friends and Influence People. I think that's what it's called. I might have mixed that around. Yeah, basically, if you haven't read that book yet, you should, and I can also just summarize it for you. It's listen to the person more than you talk about yourself. Or you know what I mean? And hear them out, let them speak, let them talk, ask them about themselves. You know, and in real estate, like we're just talking about the network thing. At the end of the at the end of the day, for a 12 unit in Madison, everyone and their mother is trying to get that deal, right? At the end of the day, who gets it? Whoever connected and builds the most rapport with the owner. That's it. And and and guess what? They didn't have more money, they didn't have the bigger company, they were just more personable.
SPEAKER_02Correct. Who's I tell our I tell our acquisitions guys right? Yeah, I tell our I tell our acquisitions guys if you're not getting deals uh for less than what somebody else is willing to offer, then you didn't do a good job with that seller. You gotta be willing, you gotta be willing to um, you know, or be good enough, skilled enough that you can you could go offer somebody a hundred thousand dollars for the deal. I should be able to go in there and offer eighty thousand dollars, and I should be able to get that deal because I they trust me, know me, like me, and and I did a better job solving their actual problem, not just throwing money at the situation. Yep. Yep. So understanding asking good questions, getting to the root of what their actual problem is, and then and then building rapport, solving the issue, the actual root issue. Rarely in our business, you know, it's interesting, Colin. Uh, we have some realtors out there in our network or in our our area, they just cannot stand us for whatever reason. They hate us. And it's really fascinating because they think we're ripping people off all the time. They're like, oh, you just got there stealing people's houses and ripping them off.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_02And I'm like, oh, really? Like when you list somebody's house and you charge them six percent of their money, you just took six percent of their money for putting it on MLS. And no disrespect to my realtors. I know you guys do more work than that. But to summarize, like, if we're gonna get a little battle here, you know, I could say the same thing about what you do on the other side as a realtor is you're taking money out of there. Why don't you just do it for free then if you're altruistic? Just list their house for free and don't take any commission, right?
SPEAKER_00Something else too is the direct uh do you want to do the direct to seller marketing? No, I promise you don't want to do it. It's hard. That's why you guys make great spreads on the assignment piece because it's hard, it's really hard. You know, that's why. And you're you're doing a uh favor for people like my dad who don't want to do any of that work at all. That's exactly that's where this that's where the money is made because you're doing the dirty, gritty work. It's easy to sell to say, Hey, let me sell my house. All right, I'm gonna post some pictures, get the description up, and I'm gonna, you know, schedule it through a line showings. It's pretty easy.
SPEAKER_02Right now, yeah. With the sellers, too. What I what my what I was getting to is like the people that we do business with, we're not forcing anybody to sign a contract with us. In fact, we really we try to give them every other option besides us because we know that we have to be the lowest dollar amount even compared to other investors. Like, I can't pay what other investors will pay. So I have to bring more value to that seller, right? And I'm telling you, of everybody that we have a solid transaction with, price is never the most important factor for them.
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02It's they say it on the surface because they don't know what else to describe, right? But think about like one of the sales trainers that we we listen to in the industry, he had an example one time, and I was like, that makes so much sense. Like all of us have a cell phone, right, Cal? Yep. If price was the most important thing to us, we would all have flip phones with no data, right? And it would just be a cell phone, right? That all we did was all we did was call. We'd have so many minutes that we could call a month, and that's what we do, right? But we all pick like the nicest iPhone because it's got the camera, it's got we got unlimited data, right? We can do we got two cameras, not just one, we got two, right? Fastest, fastest thing on the planet, right? You know, for some of us and some people they might say, you know what, I don't need all that stuff, I'm gonna go somewhere in the middle. But it's not because of price, it's because of value and solving a problem that we have in the in the business. And that's what we do with sellers when we meet with them is we're what is your actual problem? Yes, price is important, it's a factor. Let's put that okay. I hear you. Yes, price is important, we understand that, but what else is important to you? And then let's get to the root of that and solve that piece of it for you. And we're gonna have a much smoother transaction, you're gonna be so much happier at the end of this. And you know, we pride ourselves on reviews, and I think we have over like 350 five-star reviews right now between Google, Facebook, and the BBB. So it's like the people that are saying we're ripping people off, I'm like, just go read our reviews. Like, you clearly not you'll cry, you'll cry reading some of these reviews, dude, of what we've done for people, you know, in this business and helped them out of some really difficult situations.
SPEAKER_00Realtors love to I I'm licensed myself and I'm not really a realtor per se, but I just you know, realtors are haters. Yeah, they're hating that a five or ten thousand dollar spread.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and not all of them.
SPEAKER_00I would certainly I might be too, I might be salty.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Well, they think we're taking business from what they don't understand is a lot of these people would never be a good candidate to list this house on the MLS. Like they need it needs too much work, it's never gonna be able to get financing.
SPEAKER_01It's never gonna get timeline.
SPEAKER_02Sellers and a short seller needs a short timeline and they don't have time to sit and wait, and somebody's financing falls through. You know, there's a lot of other things, and it and what we do in the industry is we're only working with like five percent of all transactions that happen on the uh in the real estate space. Like most people are a better fit to list the traditional way, right?
SPEAKER_00So, you know, it's not like and it's that's why you guys provide so much value is because, like you're saying, this building can't get or this house can't get financed on the MLS. You have to buy it with hard money or cash or whatever it might be. And you're you're just targeting that little segment. You don't and a realtor doesn't want to deal with them anyways, you know what I mean? And also something on top of that too, like, we'll something with some of our flips is like you know, you hear them out, like you're saying, price is a part of it, but then okay, besides the price, like why are you willing to discount your property 25% for me already? Because you can take this to the retail market and get more. I promise. I'm telling you that right now. Yes, tell every single one of them that. Yep, build a little bit of trust, whatever, and then you know, you get to their brute problem. Oh, well, you know, there's just a lot of stuff in our place, and you know, we just don't, it's gonna be a hassle to move. Oh, okay. Well, no, miss Mr. Seller, why don't I give you sixty thousand dollars? Um, yeah, it might be a little bit less than some of the other people that you know offered you, but I'll I'll pay for all of your moving costs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Now you now you created value and you solved the problem.
SPEAKER_00And and and you did more and you thought more about them than your bottom line of what I can pay. You know what I mean? Bake it into how much you offer, but hey, I'll pay your moving costs. Yep. You know, or I'll pay this cost because to me it sounds like what's holding you back from taking the other offers, or why didn't you take the other offer? Oh, well, and you figure it out. Okay, well, what I can offer to you is boom, boom, boom. Exactly. And a realtor is not doing that either.
SPEAKER_02Correct, correct. And you know what, Colin? We always say sales done right is done for somebody, not to someone.
SPEAKER_00Right? Right.
SPEAKER_02So when when you're selling in our business, selling really is acquiring a property, right? We're selling them on why they should choose to work with us. We have to do it because it's the best thing for this customer, right? It has to be a win-win. We both have to get something out of it, otherwise, it's not gonna be a good transaction. Every transaction has to be a win-win, or somebody's gonna feel slighted on the other side. Right. Um, but there's so there's got to be give and take and good good tension and polarity in any kind of transaction. But it should be your mentality should be I'm doing this for my customer, not to them, right? I'm not manipulating them, I'm not doing anything else. I'm doing it for them. And when you have that conviction, like what you're talking about, it's like, well, I just solved your problem. Now you don't have to clean this thing out. You can just take what you want, leave what you don't want, whatever, you know, whatever you're doing to really understand their situation. Now all of a sudden you're the hero. And they don't know.
SPEAKER_00That all comes back to being personable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and they don't they forgot about the 20 grand they left on the table because that's not really the most important thing to them.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_00And people can't rent it.
SPEAKER_02Yes, exactly. Exactly. Dude, this is audience. Do you see why I wanted to hire this kid? You get it? All right, there it is.
SPEAKER_00Realtor hate needs to stop. I will say that. I will say that everyone can win. How I wish I I I heard the number um a few months back, but there's like however many millions of transactions in real estate a year, there's enough for everyone to eat. Every single year that goes on, we're getting a new property that's uh a quote unquote dirt box, you know, whatever. I don't want to say the word, I don't know if we can swear on here, but you know, like every year that goes on, there's another house that'll be able to be flipped, or another house that'll be able to be sold, you know. Yeah, especially for realtors. You you guys have a majority of the market, anyways. And what's interesting is their home.
Value Over Price: Winning Seller Conversations
SPEAKER_02Yeah, no, most of the time, what ends up happening coming, we'd go in and we say, Hey, you know, what's why are you thinking of working with us? Like, we can't pay you retail. That person really needs retail or they want retail, they don't have distress, the house is nice, they won't have a timeline where they have to have something done in a certain period of time. We refer that to realtors that are haters, like and we work really closely with them. We get a referral fee because my wife is licensed. But it's like uh, you know, we're working really closely with realtors who aren't having their walls up, and we can and then they'll send us deals that they're like, hey man, this one wouldn't work good for the market. I thought this would be a good fit for you guys to help them out. And we work really, really closely back and forth with realtors to serve the customer, right? What's best for this person. If it's put it on the market, great. Let's get a realtor in here and help you put it on the market. If if hey, realtor came in, not the best fit, you know, then they call us and we go work with that person and we take care of them and help solve their problems. So right.
SPEAKER_00There's there's there's a way for everyone to eat in this industry. I used to when my dad would be like, Oh, I'm gonna give this person this deal or something, or just not give them the deal, but you you get what I'm getting at. Refer them out. Yeah, I'm like, why are you doing that? That's there's ten thousand dollars to make here. But you know, I was was three, four years ago. I just didn't understand as much. Not that I understand everything now, but I was like, why would you do that? But then that comes back to you eventually because then you thought of them, they're gonna want to think of you or get back on you, at least a good business person per se would want to, because then that just keeps going. You know, Corey gives me this, Colin's gonna give Corey that, you know, and it just keeps going back and forth. And then, like on the contracting side of things, like what if you refer out contractors? They're gonna want to, like, maybe, hey, I was in this house, or I noticed that this house across the street from where I was working at, it needs some work. You should give them a call. That's a need that you didn't have before. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02You know, yeah, it was away from everything you need. Yep, good referral networks are important, man, for sure. I want to go back to something though, Kyle. You just brought up the contractor thing. So you said you when you were 15 or 16, you were managing some of the flips.
SPEAKER_00Yes. So I wouldn't say I was like, hey, you know, tile setter, go do this, but you know, I would pick up the materials, you know, I I I know a decent amount about you know, different nuances with tile, flooring, whatever it might be. This is how much it should c cost per square foot for LVP or hardwood floors, or you know, to refinish your hardwood floors, it costs this much. So I have the base knowledge of that, and then just kind of like guiding them, hey, yeah, this room needs to be done, but that room doesn't, you know, type of a thing. So that's kind of the managing part of it, you know. So I don't so then my dad or whatever investor doesn't have to, you know, go out there and drive back and forth, type of a thing. Or hey, go deliver these materials. But you know, there's some times where hey, you know, I need you to demo. Like I've I've demoed for I don't know, 10 years maybe. Okay. You know what I mean? It's it's fun and I love it. Like it's and you get paid decent amount, you get paid good amount, you know. Yeah, hey, people go in a rage room.
SPEAKER_02People go to people go to like rage rooms now and pay to do it, like you know, just come do it on Collins Flips, man. We'll let you rage out in one of these flip rooms.
SPEAKER_00Like, oh, are you demoing today? I want to come. I'm like, no, you don't. Like, you trust me, you don't want to come. It's gonna be a little dusty, but no.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, get your mask on, get your goggles, boom, get in there and start swinging, man. That's awesome. Yeah, so you were getting paid to help out with the managing piece, or were you doing this just as a learning experience when you're 15 years?
SPEAKER_00So in high school, uh the managing part I was not getting paid for. That was just it's just insane experience. And I I understood that at a younger age, but then for like the demo or the hard labor that I would do, or like what, or if I'm going to the dump per se, you know, getting a trailer, renting out a trailer, you know, loading it up and you know, clearing out the house, I would get paid for that. Okay. But like the managing part, that's just so much value that my my dad and these other investors were allowing me to take part in. That I I you know, I was in high school. I didn't I didn't I don't need the money, quite frankly. It would have been nice. Yeah, that experience, you know, it's it's unvaluable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, well that that's a that's amazing, dude. And as I'm sitting here listening to it, I'm like, well, if you're a 40-year-old dude sitting out here, a lady sitting out here, and you just want to get into this business, maybe something to think about too. You don't have to be a high school kid. Like if you've got a good you know, daytime gig and you're like, man, I really want to learn this business, how can you bring value to somebody who's already where you want to be? Right? Can it be through just going and volunteering to go be a runner for them and kind of learn the ins and outs of like what materials cost, right? Without you having to be spending your own cash, you can be out there, you know, shopping for somebody else's flips and helping out, you know, design stuff and just learning things, and that stuff is gonna make you so much money if you apply it in a future for your own stuff. I thought that was a good little nugget there that I want to kind of circle back on with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, my dad's one of my dad's favorite things to say is that one of the best uh in real estate, the one of the best educations you can get is by going to Home Depot.
SPEAKER_01Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00That's what I that's what I think. I hey, I know what this costs. I know what a uh a stainless steel whatever inch fridge costs, you know? Or you know what I mean? Like knowing the different heights. All right, well, this is not gonna fit here, or you know, being able to measure out a kitchen, you know, little things like that. You gotta you gotta learn these ins and outs so you're not getting screwed by your contractor, you know what I mean? For sure. Most people don't have like with my dad, he's been in Milwaukee for 30 35 plus years doing this, or 35 plus years being around talking to people at least, right? So he has great connections and contractors, he knows he's not getting screwed for the most part. But for someone just getting into it, it's like you know, they kind of see you as you know, fresh meat per se. Like, oh yeah, this kitchen's gonna cost 15 grand to do.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Me and my dad are over here, like, I don't know about that. Like, you know what I mean? Um so yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that guy's making his living off his his annual bump right there. You just gave himself an annual bonus right there off your kitchen, man.
SPEAKER_00I've paying and this is gonna take me two weeks. He just made that spread on you just because you don't know. Just because you didn't educate yourself, basically.
SPEAKER_02Or you didn't want to call, you know, you're talking about con you went to school for four years now. The first year we all know in college is general eds, and you're not really in your program too much. Right. At least let's let's call it two years, probably, where you've been really heavily focused on the real estate side of things, and you spent two years in this learning this stuff, right? So I think it's kind of interesting. Like when when we think back, like as an investor out here, the barrier to entry is like pretty minimal to get into real estate investing. You know, you can there's hard money lenders that'll lend to anybody, right? As long as you've got a post in a good W-2 right now. And that's really the biggest barrier usually is how do I finance this thing? And once people figure that out, they're you know, if they're driven, they're gung-ho. But uh the expectation is that they're gonna win on every deal and they're gonna make, you know, ten, twenty, thirty thousand dollars every time they flip something. Sometimes that's not the case, and they don't you know sometimes they don't look at it as the education piece, right? And they or they don't spend the time like you're talking about in preparation for that. And now there's there's a balance, there's analysis paralysis people who will prep forever and never take action. And then there's people like me who are like, let's just go, we'll figure it out as we go, and we don't do any preparation, and then we get bit and we get bit along the way, and we you know, we it costs us in the long run for not doing that. And then there's that those people right in the middle who are doing the right thing, like they're learning, applying, learning, applying, learning, applying, and they're they're hitting, they're hitting singles and doubles all day long. And so I think it's just if you're out there listening to this, I think what's what's kind of triggering for me, Colin, is like you're spending two years paying to learn uh probably paying a pretty good penny to learn real estate business. Plus, you spent time paying your time in high school to learn a lot of the flipping side of things and everything else. So if you're out there listening and you haven't done any kind of that grunt work, boots on the ground type of education yet, that may be a good place to start. It's just go to the Home Depots, go to other people who are doing things and ask them, hey, how what did you do on this flip? Show me the before and afters. Pay them for their time. Go pay them. Like, hey, could you coach me to show me how you did some of these flips?
SPEAKER_00That thousand dollars you paid someone to spend a week with them is gonna pay you tenfold down the line.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't matter.
SPEAKER_00You have to look at it in terms of like, I'm spending a thousand dollars and it's a sunk cost, but lifetime value of me learning that is infinite because now I know now I know the skills for the the like the rest of my life of flipping. You know what I mean? It's like that thousand dollar investment, you have to be willing to spend money. So what are you gonna stay in the same spot? Exactly.
Learn The Trade: Home Depot MBA
SPEAKER_02You know, I was just listening to uh sales podcast uh this last week, and uh the guy that the guest that they had on, uh he like sells from stage, he speaks and then sells from stage and does all these things. And now he's turned that how he's done that into like a coaching program and he coaches other salespeople on how to do this. But to get into like his mastermind, like his minimum coaching, it's like 350 grand a year to get into it. But he had a bro come in, guy was doing 1.2 million in his business and sales, went to like$4 million the next year in sales. So guy got$325,000. This guy got an extra three million dollars paying for the education, right? Then his other levels, like$800,000 to get into the next level thing. I mean, it's just like you think about those numbers, like, oh my gosh, I could never imagine spending that much money on coaching, but you gotta look at it as like, is this a good investment for me? Yes, and what am I gonna get back on the investment? If I know I can invest 20 grand, say, in coaching, and I know I'm gonna be able to make a million dollars because of that 20 grand, that's a hell of a return on an estimate.
SPEAKER_00That's an insane lifetime value.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Think about the probability of things, pay your market tuition. Think about it in terms of probability. If I pay$20,000, there's a 75% chance, let's just making it up, that I'm gonna be able to have this skill for the rest of my life, and that skill is gonna make me$10 million across my yeah. Ooh, that$20,000 is really well spent then. That's that's better than investing for 40 years and compounding like Warren Buffett, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's right. That's right. Exactly. And you're accelerating that timeline. So time value of money goes up because you sped it up. It's yeah, 100%.
SPEAKER_00Right. Like if if if you want to make a like let's you're getting into flipping right now and you buy your first deal. I don't want to say you're gonna get burnt because I don't want to be negative, but there's a chance, right, where you are maybe in your situation, Corey, you just went at it, right? You're gonna pay your market tuition per se on that deal. You're gonna you might lose. That's your market tuition. Whereas you could have paid someone like my dad maybe five thousand dollars to walk with him through a whole entire flip for if it takes two months. You just saved yourself the market tuition that you just lost if you would have done it right away.
SPEAKER_02For sure. And you got systems and processes probably from that if you're doing your home, if you're being a good student, that now you're gonna speed up your processes, right? So the flip that otherwise probably took you six months to do, maybe now that takes you three months to do, and you're much more profitable. Now you can do another flip within that next three-month period, right? Which you otherwise didn't do. And this is one of the reasons, Calin. I was just having a conversation. We took our team to Mexico. We just got back on Monday as with a little incentive trip for hitting our goal last year. And um I do want to Yeah, there you go. This is exactly slightly, I'm slightly recruiting you here. You see that? Uh the the but uh interestingly, I was having a conversation with one of our teammates who's newer into the real estate space, and I said, I will die on this hill. That if you are out there and you want to get started in real estate and you're just gung-ho like me, you're like, let me just go. I just want to go. I don't want to go do this other thing about. Start with rentals and buy buy rentals, find a good property management company that can do the improvements for you and not screw you, right? Yep. And just keep your W-2 as long as you can and just buy assets, boom, put them in both your manager, buy asset, put them in the manager. Because what you're describing, what I think a lot of people don't understand, is they're like, well, I think I'll do some flips and some rentals. Those are two different businesses. Completely different. Literally, you're having two businesses that you're trying to run at the same time while you keep a W-2 job and you're split focused, you can't manage everything. Most likely you're not gonna get a bookkeeper, right? And so now you're gonna have to try to learn how to do bookkeeping. You know, you're spread so thin that you can't be good at any one thing. And so if you're like, I just if I but if you're like, hey, I need cash, like I need to build my cash reserves, then just go flip for a while and be really get really, really good at flipping. And like sit, go pay for you know, go pay Colin's dad or go pay somebody else to learn their processes and systems and how they do things and try to network and get get your contractors to do all that stuff. But that's like literally a separate business than like a rental business. Like they're two totally different operations, and I think people get those two things blurred, they just think, well, it's real estate.
SPEAKER_00It's gonna be something like I have a problem with that. It's like trying to stay linearly focused of well, oh, but I could do this too. It's like, well, that's a whole different thing, you know. Like, I don't know. Because like you're saying, it's like rentals, you can pay a little bit more, maybe you, you know, because you you what's your time horizon for holding it? Okay, well, it's 10 plus years, all right. Well, I I can pay a lot more, you know, or not a lot more, but you know, it's different, it's a whole different business. And if also the mistake I've made is trying to do too much all at once, and that's gotten me zero progress. Whereas if I just stuck at one thing and I was like, I'm just gonna do strictly act right now, acquisitions for during the summer when I'm off of school, I would have gotten let's just hopefully two deals. Yeah, but instead I was act, this, that, boom, and guess what? I got zero deals one summer for sure. And it's like, well, that that's that's your focus. Everything is your focus. Well, what do you what are you gonna and kind of on the rental side of things too? It's a great point. Like you can keep your W-2 and then you're you're lucky enough, you can actually get regular financing. Maybe you know it's 20% down. I don't know, maybe there's a better way, DSCR loan, whatever it is. But why don't you acquire a duplex per year and just let these tenants pay off your um debt service and you do that every year, and you just pick up one deal per year. Over 15 years, you have 15 uh duplexes, 30 doors, and you know, you might not be cash flowing per se right at the moment. I think cash flow is something that people have in their mind that like it it's it's it's real, but right now, especially it's not that real.
SPEAKER_02Correct. You know what I mean? You'll never do a deal right now if you're looking for purely cash flow, unless you got lots of cash that you want to put down on these things.
SPEAKER_00Exactly. And it's and then it's not worth it. You you usually put your money in the stock market.
SPEAKER_02Right. Now your cash and cash return is garbage.
SPEAKER_00It's it's literally horrible. Literally terrible. So like, and if you're if you're looking like what why not why not hold, why not have a time horizon? If you're gonna be investing in a 401k nowadays, why not also do that with a duplex? Because then guess what? You're having people just pay off your debt service. Correct. And it just adds up exponentially. You don't really do my all right. I'm paying an extra, I don't know, two three hundred dollars a month. It doesn't cash flow. All right, but my time horizon is so long on this, who cares? You know what I mean? Yeah, that's that mindset, that's that like that frame. Like you see these people, you know, text me this and I'll show you how to cash flow or whatever the hell. It's like, yeah, that's not real. Like, you know, that's not a thing, you know. Yeah, I love that point you brought up about like the difference between rentals and flipping, it's just a different game. It is.
Focus: Flipping And Rentals Are Different Businesses
SPEAKER_02And and I love that you're talking about the long-term horizon. And we had the same, this was in that same breath of the conversation. Cash flow, and I've talked about this on previous episodes a while back. It's been a while since I brought this up. But like you said, right now, with where rates are and prices and everything else, it's really hard to get significant cash flow. Like I think even when I I started in 2016 and rates were about where they are now, they were still like fives and sixes and stuff, but the prices were a lot lower at that point. Yes, and so rent rents have gone up, and so those have increased in cash flow. But at the time, I was like, I'll just get to a hundred doors, 200 bucks a door, I'm living the dream, 20 grand a month. This is amazing, right? Well, you got a furnace that's gonna go out, you got all this other stuff, right? So you never really get so even at 100 doors, I was like, I'm really not even making that much money right now, right? And then a couple years later, I had a 16 unit I had bought in that process, and values had gone up, rates went way down, right? And I refinanced that property and I pulled out$240,000 of tax-free money. Oh, there's my$20,000 a month. Yeah, I just had to wait a few years to refinance it, and then I got it. I didn't make jack squat on it for like two years. But when I pulled that, when I once the value went up and the and the debt was down, and the and the rate rates were great, I pulled out a bunch of money tax-free, and that was my cash flow. And I think people, if you're out there listening to this, if you're in the rental game, model these out with AM schedules, amortization schedules, um, and and appreciation schedules. I use ChatGPT all the time for this. I'll just say, hey, here's what my I'm gonna buy this for, here's what my loan will be. It's on this type of a loan program. Average market appreciation is 4% here. What will this thing what will my uh equity be in five years, 10 years, 15 years? And when you really look at it, like 10 years, people are like, oh, I don't know, another$2,500 for this, whatever it's gonna be. Like, bro, that is nothing when you look at this thing over fifth, 10-15 years if you're looking at it long term, and then you look at like what can I do? I can refinance that thing in 10 years and pull a ton of cash out, or I can sell it, or I can whatever. I can just keep it and let it just keep keep paying down, whatever you want to do. But you get a lot more options as you acquire those assets in the future, right?
SPEAKER_00And delaying that gratification too. This isn't like people talk about I think passive income is kind of a facade in some ways. It's well, okay, unless you have three million dollars and you put it into treasuries, all right. That's that's passive income, sure. But like what do you want to earn four percent on your money? I don't know, maybe if you're 65, sure. Right. But like right, passive income in real estate is I don't think of real estate like that at all, to be honest. It's who can delay the gratification the most, yes, you know, because then like you said, you didn't get paid anything on that 16 unit you said or 12 unit, yeah, 16 unit, yeah. 16 unit for two years, but then you refi it and now all of a sudden you're like whoa, I'm I cut there, there's my there's my 20 grand a month. You know what I mean? And it's it's because you're willing to, you know, stick in the game, and now there's a lot of that, you know, passive income, get rich quick stuff, and it's just not it's not real, you know. Right, you know, it's and but but guess what? If you start at my age and you acquire a duplex a year that's very doable for 20 years, okay, I'm 42. Now over those 20 years, I have how much equity built up? I a lot, you know. That's for me personally, that's my 401k. Because I don't want to wait for next 65 or what is it, 62 and a half. I don't know. I should probably get better at my my facts on this, but that's why I'm not a uh a this is controversial, so I might get some hate on this. I'm not a big believer in the 401k.
SPEAKER_02If you're not on this podcast, bro, you're in good company.
SPEAKER_00I'm in good okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I I think that while it's great, tax-free, blah, blah, blah, all that. If you just have a little bit of investing skill, why am I gonna wait till I'm 60 or 65 to touch that money? I I'm not saying I want that money, no, I was just talking about delaying the gratification. But I know if I just have a little bit of skill of investing, that I can outperform that. You know what I mean? 100%. And and and it's not worth it to wait that long and just sit there, you know. It was great, but I don't know. I just I think there's better ways in my opinion. Especially nowadays, stuff's stuff's expensive. You gotta learn how to invest. If you if you just work a job nowadays and you don't do anything to grow your money except you know, put it in your bonds or whatever you do, or you know, the SP 500, I'm I invest in it too, sure. Yeah, but it's not I'm not like aggressively there because I think I have the skills outside of just putting in the SP 500 to grow my money, you know?
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_00And then maybe put you know, your$240,000 refi, put 15-20% of that in the SP just because let me just get this away from me.
SPEAKER_02A little diversification, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right, a little bit of diversification, but yeah, no, that cash flow, the delay and gratification, all that focusing, it's it's all like it's all so good and valuable because even if you told me that a year ago, I'd be like, hmm, I don't know. Like, I think I can, you know, I don't know about that, Corey, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. It's really there's a I this is such a good topic, man. We'll start to wrap here, Calm. But the uh I had another investor that I was uh I coached. We used to have a mastermind that my wife and I ran four years ago or whatever. And he was in that mastermind, and then he bought a bunch of stuff, like he did great. He bought like 40 units in like 18 months, but it was almost too a little too quick because some of those, you know, he didn't have the capital stack to like cover some of the rehabs that were gonna come up and some of the other things. Anyway, long story short, he's kind of coming back, he's getting himself out of that all that mess that he put himself in. And he's like, Man, I just need to be making like 120 grand a year, and then I could I could quit my job and just do this full time. But I was like, okay. I said, How do you plan to do that? He's like, I don't know, man, like whatever. And I said, Well, let's model this out. Like, when do you want to be quitting by? And he said, like, within like by five years from now, I want to be able to quit my job. And I said, Okay. I said, What would keep you from buying maybe two or three Burr deals a year? You know, where you're buying them, you're gonna have, and for those of you that don't know, Burr, buy, rehab, rent, refinance. It's a great capital recycling strategy, a great way to get infinite returns. It's a little tougher these days to get infinite. You may still have some money stuck in those deals nowadays. But either way, we looked at that and I said, dude, let's imagine let's you just bought like three 250k duplexes, right? ARV is 250, you're into it for whatever 80% of that is, is that's 200,000, right?
SPEAKER_00Yep.
SPEAKER_02You do that every year. In five years, you now have five of those that you started the clock on, and you have all of this equity. So now you can refinance, even at 80% LTV. Now at refinancing that thing, you have your hundred and twenty grand of tax free money. But you still keep the duplexes. You don't have to sell them. Right. You keep them. You pull that money out, it's tax-free. Uh you know, unless you sell. Somebody's gonna be like, oh, it's not tax-free unless we sell. Okay, we got it. If you sell it, you gotta pay tax. Okay. But you just keep it until you die, you pass it on to your kids, you 1031 exchange it at some point, whatever. There's a bunch of ways to mitigate tax. But anyway, we looked at it and I think he was like, oh, whoa. Like never thought of being able to let you know, buy, let those pay. You don't have to buy a hundred of them. He's buying three duplexes a year, bro. That's it. It's not crazy. We're not asking you to go, you know, take over the world here. Very manageable for somebody with a s with a strong W-2. Five-year plan, easy to get out of it, right? And then and then if you do that every year and you just keep doing three a year, every year you've got your retirement plan and your income paying you every single year.
SPEAKER_00401k, I promise.
SPEAKER_02Oh, way better, dude. Way better.
SPEAKER_00I get the furnace goes out, I get that. But like, come on, like, let's just think about a little bit. I get it. Don't buy a don't buy a rental with no shower door glass shower doors and all. I don't want to hear any of that nonsense of my tenant broke my glass shower door. Why do you have a glass shower door in your unit anyway? You know what I mean? Like, I I saw it on Twitter. I was like, dude, come on. Like he's he's he's um crapping on real estate investing. And you people ask him, What'd you buy the deal for? What what's in the uh what happened? And then you found out, and one of the things was uh a glass shower door. It's like, why do you have a glass shower door on your rental unit? That's one more thing to break, you know. Right, right, and and like also with people my age too, it's like what we have it's hard for an FA, it's hard to get an FHA loan, I understand that, but hey, the f I mean the five percent, the the spread on that, okay. I gotta put five percent down versus twenty percent. Uh that's pretty crazy, you know? Yeah, and I I might be wrong on this, but I I believe as long as you live in the unit for a year, you can keep FHA. I believe. I could be wrong.
Cash Flow Myths And The Refi Payoff
SPEAKER_02Up to 10, up to 10 properties in your personal name, but they get a little bit, they get a little weird about after like four, they start asking a little bit more questions, is what I'm told. I've never done it that way. Yeah, I've never done it that way. I wish I would have started what Colin's referring to is house hacking. And so what he's saying is you put five percent down, you go live in the duplex on one side, you get a tenant paying your mortgage on the other side. After a year, you go find another one, you move out of that one, you put another tenant in, now you're cash flowing on that with only five percent down, you get your five percent back pretty soon. Now it's an infinite return. Yep. It's a great investment. You hold that sucker for a long time, you build equity as your tenant pays your debt, and as the market appreciates what I call the wealth cone, you create a wealth cone and then you you go do it again and again and again and rinse and repeat until the FHA cuts you off. And then you just start burring deals. I mean you do it the burning.
SPEAKER_00That's why I said that's my point.
SPEAKER_02There you go.
SPEAKER_00You know, I I'm looking right now. If anyone has a duplex, doesn't even I I'll pay 200, 300 bucks out of my pocket because I know it'll be cheaper than renting. And I get the whole rental versus buying debate. I get it, I get it. I know the math is there, but not if you do it this way. Not it's it's it's in our favor in this way. I don't want to hear that victim mentality anymore. Stuff's so expensive. Figure it out, bro. There's a way. There is a way.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes you know, there is a way to it's been expensive to everyone for a history of time. I don't think anybody's been like, man, real estate other other than like 2011, 2012. I don't think anybody's been like, you know, real estate's pretty cheap right now, it's a good value buy. Like it's always perception-wise, because it goes up every year historically. People are like, dang, real estate's so expensive now, right?
SPEAKER_00Hey, you just bought a deal that's at retail. Like, of course you're not making that much money, or you know, whatever. You you kind of bought yourself into that. Do the math. It's pretty easy, you know. Yeah, buy yourself a deal where there's a spread on it, you know. It's yeah, it's basically a gold mine. You know, someone's gonna live there. That's the great thing about real estate. Is last thing I'll say, multifamily duplexes. No matter what, me uh, me and Corey have somewhere to live, everywhere everyone has somewhere to live. You're just basically buying an existing business that will never run out, will never run out of a customer. So it's the best business in the world, and it trades at a great multiple. It doesn't trade at a 2x multiple, you know, it trades higher than it's it's the best business in the world.
SPEAKER_02I agree, buddy. I agree. Well, bro, this has been fire, dude. I you and I could probably go for like three hours with our conviction of real estate investing.
SPEAKER_00Hey, maybe once every six months, I I can call it.
SPEAKER_02I like it, dude. I would love to have you back on, dude, for sure. We keep rifting as you're learning things as you're getting out in the into the wild, as we'll call it here after college. I'm not in the wild yet.
SPEAKER_00Yes, maybe I'm gonna get my ass handed too, you know, pay some money.
SPEAKER_02That's a good episode. That's gonna make a great episode if you do.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. Well, Colin, we always wrap with one fun question. And the reason I started doing this was you know, it's called the Wisconsin Investor. We have people from California, Colorado, some of those not as valued, not as much value markets that are looking for a place to put their capital. We think Wisconsin's a great place for a lot of people don't know about it, so I wanted to create this podcast to let people know about Wisconsin. So I guess that's a little fun question. Favorite Wisconsin tradition or place to visit in our great state? What would you say?
SPEAKER_00I would say, let me think. I'd say tailgating, whether at the Brewers game or the Packers game. I've I've tailgated for basically all of my life, I'd say a decade, right? Yeah, it's just the best time. You just get to make some food, make some burgers, cook up some hot dogs, go enjoy some good baseball, go enjoy your your Packers. Also, the one spot you absolutely need to hit in Wisconsin is Lambeau Field. Bar none. I I know people that come from Madison, they go to Lambeau and they're from California, Boston, New York, wherever. They go to Lambo, they're like, I have never been to anything like that ever in my life, and I don't know if anything will top that.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes, because it it it reaches that. It's that amazing. It's it's literally it's it's the best, it's one of the best days of my year every year. Going to Lambo.
SPEAKER_02One of my favorite things to do is take people from out of state or out of this area that are just football fans and bring them to Lambeau. Because I take it for granted, I grew up 30 minutes outside of Green Bay. So I'm just like, yeah, I've been going to Packer Games my whole life. Like, yeah, what's up? And then I like they're like, bro, you have no idea how special this is. Like, this is such a cool environment, it's so amazing.
SPEAKER_00So what I say is it's like it's like my first time going to Packer Game every time I go there. Maybe not for you, but from I go, I think I go to two games a year. Every time I've gone the last four years, I'm like, this is my first time here. I'm like a kid in candy shop.
SPEAKER_02It's amazing. That's awesome, dude. I love it.
SPEAKER_00I just love it. I love it. And the Wisconsin people, probably the nicest people you'll ever meet. All of us are so welcoming. We're all very nice. We'll give you our time of the day for the most part. You have the people here and there, of course, but for the most part, you have the Wisconsinites are just so welcoming. They're they're yeah, they're happy to talk to you, they're happy to, you know, whatever, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, so for sure, for sure. Colin, if anybody wants to get in touch with you, man, either to talk about doing some deals with you or whatever the case might be, man, what's the best way for them to uh connect up with you, bro?
SPEAKER_00My email, I don't know if this is the best way. My email, Colin at BlackRidge Co.com. My phone number, I don't care that I'm putting it out here, 414-429-9130. Call, text, email, whatever you want. If you have a deal, I'm buying.
SPEAKER_01Love it. We're buying it, man.
SPEAKER_02Love it. Well, bro, I appreciate you being on here. Guys, if you got some value out of this episode, please share this out there on your socials and your network. We love getting the word out there. We love the uh helping other investors in in Wisconsin or they're looking to get into Wisconsin. Also, if you are in the Madison area and you want to get involved in acquisitions, this is why I was trying to recruit Colin here. We are looking to add some people to our team. We need some people that want to go out and solve some sellers' problems. And so if you think that would be something you're interested in, we don't want people who are just gonna come here and jump. You know, they come on the team, they just want to learn for six months and then go start their own business. That's not what we're looking for. We're looking for people who want to grow with us for the long term and be a part of an amazing culture and an amazing team. And we'll teach you all kinds of great stuff. You'll be able to buy deals off market. Like there's a lot of benefits to being on our team if you're interested in investing in our company with us for the long haul. Uh, we will we will invest in you for the long haul as well. So you can reach out to me, Corey at ibuy.com. You can send me an email there if you're interested in learning more about that, and uh would love to chat with you about that and see if you'd be a great fit.
SPEAKER_00I can attest to this. Corey's a great dude, got breakfast with him and his team, super cool dude. Who wouldn't want to work for this guy? I don't know. You're you're kind of right. Don't don't don't go work at the bank. Don't that's right, go do that job. Don't I just trust me? I don't I don't think you want to do that.
SPEAKER_02You want to work for the bank. That's right. That's right. I appreciate that, Colin. Appreciate it.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I I can't hire Colin, but I will do b deals with Colin because he's and if he ever comes to Milwaukee, I will me and my father will be the face of that. We know black by black, each ARV.
SPEAKER_02Love it, dude. I love it. I'm gonna hit you up with that too. That that's probably in the future. So awesome guys. Well, thanks again for tuning in. We will see you guys on the next episode.
