How to Navigate Tax-Efficient Real Estate Exits: Insights from Brandon Bruckman

In this episode of The Wisconsin Investor Podcast, Corey Reyment sits down with Brandon Bruckman to break down how real estate investors can think more strategically about exiting properties without losing momentum.

For many investors, selling a rental property can feel like a setback, especially when taxes take a significant portion of the profit. Brandon shares how the right planning and structure can turn an exit into an opportunity to keep your capital working while reducing unnecessary tax burdens.

Together, they walk through:

• How to think about exits before you ever sell
 • Why tax strategy plays a major role in long-term wealth building
 • How investors transition from active management to more passive income
 • Common mistakes that can cost investors time and money
 • The importance of having a clear plan before making a move

If you’re holding rental properties, considering selling, or just want to build a more durable long-term strategy, this episode offers a different way to think about keeping your money working for you.

For off-market investment opportunities across Wisconsin, visit:
 👉 WisconsinDiscountProperties.com

Transcript

The Big Tax Question

SPEAKER_01 0:39

What's up, everybody? Corey Randy, your host of the Wisconsin Investor Podcast. I'm super excited as usual because today we're going to be talking about one of my favorite topics on the planet. I'll get into that in a second. But what if, guys, I'm going to prompt you with this? What if you can sell your rental properties, stop dealing with tenants, and still keep your money working for you without getting crushed by taxes? You guys listening to the episodes know I love legally not paying taxes whenever possible. And that's exactly what we're going to dive in today. So today I'm joined by Brandon Bruckman. He's an investment advisor and advisory board member at Insight Investment Advisors. And uh Brandon specializes in helping real estate investors, farmers, business owners, really you name it, plan for retirement in smarter, more tax-efficient ways. So his focus is on helping clients diversify their portfolios and defer taxes using strategies like the old 1031 exchange, the Delaware statutory, did I say that? Statutory trusts, also known as DSTs, and opportunity zones. So a lot of this stuff, for me in particular, is kind of a, I don't know what you say, a muddied topic. So we're going to get into that today. He's also the host of the Retiring Real Estate Investor Podcast, where he shares some real world strategies, case studies, insights on how investors can step away from the active property management and transition into more passive income streams without taking that huge tax hit. Brandon, welcome to the show, man.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Corey, thanks for having me on. Longtime listener, first time participant. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:10

Well, I'm excited, man. And I'd love to be on your show too, because this is a this is a pat this is a topic I'm really passionate about. As I said in the intro, like as you as you've heard on the episodes, man, I I'm always wondering how do I get my money working for me harder, faster, stronger without having to do more physical work, right? How do I take the stuff that we've already put in the work and get it to just be better at what it's supposed to be doing? And that's producing income, right? Um, and so I'm excited to dive into all of those topics with you today. But I guess give us give the audience a little bit of a background on you, the company, how you got into this world of advising on these on this particular niche, because you're really niched in, which is really cool.

SPEAKER_00 2:49

Yeah, it's a winding road. So maybe I'll go, maybe I'll go backwards forwards uh kind of how we got there. So Inside Investment Advisors is our firm. Um, co-started that with my partner. Uh, his name is Joshua Wright. He lives in Kansas City. We won't hold that against him. Yeah. Um ever since I've known him, they just win everything sports-wise. Uh World Series, they got on, obviously, Mahomes. So we don't we don't like that, but nevertheless, we won't hold that against him. That's right. That's right. He really brought the idea to me. So his father had owned nine hotel properties um in that and around Kansas, um, four sons that needed to go to college. He said, Josh, we got to sell some of this stuff so I can send you and the boys to college. Like, let's go see our CPA. Lo and behold, they had a 40% tax bill. His dad looked at him and said, Josh, you're a smart finance guy, go figure this out. Josh said, I don't do that. I don't even know what you're what we're talking about here. I have no idea. Yeah, yeah. But that was sort of the foundation for him to start to kind of poke around and figure out what a 1031 exchange was. So one day he called me and said, Hey, we got to look at this 1031 exchange market. I'm like, what's a 1031 exchange? Like, what are you talking about? Right. And so two years after we started that conversation, we were going to market. We figured this was a great area. That, as you said, Corey, the waters are muddy here. Absolutely. Like the awareness here is just not there. So that was huge for us in thinking about starting this business. And then we just saw a very clean solution to an obvious problem that people have is deferring taxes and, frankly, finding an off-ramp to managing properties, right? I think the traditional thought process here is you know, I'll just hold on to this till I die, um, get the step up and base this, and hopefully pass it to my heirs that may or may not want to be active in managing this real estate. We'll leave it to them to kind of figure out how to sell it. Yeah. Well, we kind of think there's like seven different ways that you can go about this, and that doesn't have to be the only one. So it that to us appealed as a business. And so we've been often doing this since 2019. Um just growing and growing every single year. Um locally, but even on a national level, um, in a big way as well. Probably one of the only registered investment advisors that are kind of pushing this, pushing this product and this solution, um, which we think is, and we'll get into it, which we think is a unique way to go about it. But yeah, that's kind of how we got here was was a visceral problem that we could see right in our family's lives.

SPEAKER_01 5:12

Yeah. No, that makes a ton of sense, man. And I honestly it's so interesting because we I'm buying a portfolio right now. We just went under contract last week for seven different doors locally here around uh the well, on the around the Green Bay area, one of the outskirt towns. And it's that exact problem, Brandon. Somebody, uh uh somebody's parent had a portfolio of like, you know, these are like C-class properties. They're not awesome. Okay. Uh, and they they just suck the cash flow out of it until they died. And now their daughter is stressed out of her mind, trying to figure out how do I sell these things? Do I sell them as a package? Do I individually do it? Now I got tenants in here, now I got to set up all these showings. You got a big pain in the butt for her. So the problem we're solving for her is we're doing the whole portfolio, making it easy, it's simple, all that kind of stuff. But for her, it's a pain in the butt, man. Like if her dad were whatever would have maybe planned ahead a little bit earlier with some of these tools that I think you're gonna shed some light on. Maybe there could have been, like you said, seven different ways to skin the cat here. No, no offense to your cat that I we saw prior to hitting the record button there, not hear him in the back. Yes, we may see a cat on screen at some point today if you're watching this on YouTube. Yes, don't be alarmed. It's okay. It's we're not talking about skinning that cat. We're talking about skinning the real the problem here. Yeah, but yeah, it's really interesting, man. So I think this is a great topic. Another thing you and I were talking about prior to this is for, and I want to preface this, you guys that are brand new listening to this, you've never done a real estate deal in your life. How does this relate to you? Just listen to what Brandon's talking about because you're starting this with a big why, probably. It's usually if you're gonna buy and hold real estate, it's typically because you want some kind of retirement plan, some legacy, some wealth, right? That kind of thing. What you don't start it for is because you love managing tenants. I don't know anybody that starts real estate because they're like, you know what? One thing I want to do, Brandon, I want to manage tenants for my career. I don't know anybody that's ever said that. Most of us.

SPEAKER_00 7:00

I've had a lot of conversations with a lot of real estate owners almost on a daily basis. No one has said that to me. Nobody's said that ever. Yeah, and if they did their life to their time. I haven't heard that once.

SPEAKER_01 7:09

Yes, yes. Now I hear people who get into it and then they find out they don't mind it and they they actually like it. Okay, different, but they don't start it for that reason. They're starting it because of wealth, because of legacy, because of different reasons, right? So let's talk maybe if we want to transition into some of that stuff. So, again, those of you guys that are brand new, listen to what Brand's gonna say today and some of these tools. Because if you can start planning today with some of these tools for the future, as you do start building real estate portfolios, you're gonna be much probably much better off from the start knowing what some at least potential exits could be for you at some point down the road. But Brandon, let's talk. I mean, where do we want to start here? Do we want to start with 1031s? Do we want to start with the DSTs? Because I'm interested in the DSTs today. We got to definitely talk about those. Opportunity zones is another thing that came into play really big. Was that after two as a was that after 2008? When was 2016?

Why Landlords Need An Off-Ramp

SPEAKER_00 7:57

The first opportunity zone law was put into place. Um we're very excited because part of the big beautiful bill is opportunity zone in essence 2.0, which will kind of resurrect or reconstruct those rules really starting in 2027. So we're excited about what we can offer then. Uh we judge now is sort of a dead period as we're reaching the end of the first version of that law. Okay. But the second version could be really very interesting. Um what we start to think about, what that could mean um from that perspective. So yeah, maybe that's more advanced. Maybe we'll start with 1031. Let's talk about that first. So regardless of whatever tool that you're sort of using and looking to defer tax, and I say defer, not eliminate, 1031 defers tax, it doesn't eliminate it. We don't get that elimination until we pass away and we get a step up and basis. So it's a combination of those tools that get to your airs eventually, hopefully with an asset that doesn't have a tax burden attached to it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:52

Brandon, real quick to interject there, can you explain for the people who don't know what step up and basis means and why that's important?

1031 Exchange Rules And Deadlines

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Just flying by these things that are complicated. That's all right. That's all right. I got you. So when we talk about the sort of this legacy building, if this becomes something that's important to you that you want to build for your family in the future, well, we have to understand one of the beauties of owning real estate in particular is that once you die and pass away, that asset steps up in basis. And basically what that means is the asset's value then is revaluated at the time of your passing. So if you've held an asset for 30, 40 years, which you bought hopefully at a very low cost, that basis automatically moves up to the current market value. So, what an advantage for your heirs that could turn around and sell it tomorrow and have basically no tax liability attached to it. So that's that's kind of the thing that we're trying to get to. But we can get there with some different tools. Cool. During so let me zoom back then. So then during your lifetime, which you're sort of looking at, here's how most of our clients come to us. They've been real estate investors and active real estate investors for 20, 30, 40 years, and they say, hey, I need an off ramp here, right? Like I'm I'm not good at managing tenants, I don't want to do this anymore, right? I have other things I want to do with my life, or I have a legacy plan, right? How do I do that? And so the first tool is 1031 exchange. We're using that first. So that simply is you're allowed to per the rules of the IRS, they're a wonderful tax code, it's a big tax code, but most of it's about not paying taxes, not about paying taxes. Um so part of that is section 1031 in the tax code allows you to sell a property and then exchange that for another, in essence, investment property or investment vehicle that is what's termed as light kind to what you had sold, right? So there's a million different rules in there that we can kind of go into. But the very simplest way to think about it is you can easily sell a piece of real estate for another piece of real estate as long as it's investment real estate. You can do that all day long. That's fine. It can be multifamily, single family, single family, multifamily, does not matter. I guess that type isn't important, but it's important is that it's investment real estate. And you can justify that it is through your through your CPA or just taxes for right. So that's that's part of the equation, is using the 1031. Important things around 1031, there is a timeline attached to that. So there's two important dates on that. We have to be very time sensitive. It revolves it involves a lot of strategic planning when you're doing this. You have to think about selling your property, you also have to think about what you're gonna purchase because you only have two markers, 45 days to identify the property that you want to potentially purchase, and then you have 180 days to close, which sort of sounds like a long time. It is not, and so I watch a lot of these transactions fail when people enter them and have absolutely no idea what they're gonna do the moment they sell their property. They're like, great, I sold it, I was so focused on that, it was awesome, I got a great price. Now what? Yeah, 45 days, better get moving, right? And more or less, this is when we see things fall apart. So one of the ways that we can be helpful to folks is hey, I have a tax bill, I can't find anything in my identification period, call Brandon Bruckman inside investment advisors, because we can utilize the Delaware Statutory Trust as a replacement property. We can identify that today if you wanted to. So if you have a form and a deadline today, we can quickly figure out what to put on that sheet from an identification perspective right now. We can easily do that. Right? So that's a great way that we can use if people even aren't even thinking about retiring or an excess strategy, but really don't want to pay a tax bill and they're they have a problem, we can come and help out with that problem pretty quick.

SPEAKER_01 12:34

Okay, this is good. All right. Can we dive into that piece a little bit? So here's I'll I'll give you a real world example, folks. I've got some land I'm gonna buy uh in about a month from when this airs, a month and a half. And uh I sold a property that we had in Florida, had probably I was looking at about a$400,000,$500,000 gain, plus I had cost segment, so I had depreciation there. So maybe you can talk about this as well. Yes. I was planning to 1031 exchange it into this land and then break the land off into different parcels. And this is getting really into the weeds, but I was like, well, maybe I'll take I'll take 10 acres of this land that I'll build my personal house on. So I'll buy that with my own funds, and then I'll take the other 20, it's 30 acres. I'll take the other 20 and I'll buy that with my LLC and I'll 1031 exchange it. Ultimately, I decided not to. I have some other tax strategies that I'm using that that I'm just gonna be like, okay, I'm just gonna wipe it out so I don't have to worry about paying the gain with some of the other tax stuff I'm doing. But that was the original plan. What I ran into was some issues with that brand. Number one, the land value was less than the sale price, right? And I didn't really factor that in when I sold it. So you can talk a little bit about that. Yes. And then with identification, I started having to come up with like, okay, now I have to try to get to that value, right? So now I have to identify more. And I was in that time crunch. I'm like, crap, I didn't plan for this. Now I gotta rush, I gotta try to find all these other properties, right? And then it became an issue of like I had to have like almost too many properties, it seemed like, right? And there's a rule around how many properties you can then identify, right? And the value total value of those. So maybe if you want to just kind of talk, and this is good, we're getting into the weeds a little bit, folks, but trust me, if you get into this spot, you're gonna want to know some of this stuff because I was not thinking this stuff when I sold. I was like exactly what Brandon was talking about. I was like, Yeah, I sold it. I got my land. Woo-hoo, this would be great. And then all of a sudden I was like, oh crap. If I carve 10 acres out, now it makes that value even lower. On the new purchase, and now I really got to buy a bunch more real estate. So talk a little bit about that if you can.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

Yeah, and and the weeds is where this lies. Like the real life examples is is where it lies. I I think I think people struggle when we talk abstractly about it. Uh and they're like, how do I apply it? Like, this is it. So this is a really great real-world example. So let's talk about the depreciation first. So part of the 1031 exchange, this people miss this constantly. They're like, well, I'm deferring the capital gains. That's yes, you are, but you're also deferring the depreciation recapture too. So then if you think about the kind of laws that we're utilizing now, most people probably are bonus depreciation, accelerated depreciation. We're going to depreciate a lot of the asset a lot earlier than we normally would. You don't want to pay that back because you will have to pay that back if you sell and don't perform an exchange. So that is part of the equation. I encourage folks, there's lots of 1031 exchange calculators that are available out there. Plug in some of your numbers and just in a vacuum get a sense of what would I really pay in taxes if I if I sold this? It's probably more than you think. So 1031 exchange does take care of that issue and makes that a part of the deferral. Now let me go to your example that you mentioned. This is very important in 1031 as well, is what the IRS is looking for is it's an exchange, right? We're doing a buy-sell transaction, but they're expecting you to exchange. The original 1031, or call the Starker, was an exchange of one asset for another, right? It happened almost simultaneously, right? These rules have evolved. But the intent is for you to continue to invest in real estate and they expect you to continue to deploy the same amount of capital that you have in that project into the next one, right? That's the whole point. So if you're not doing that, you're doing what's called you're creating boot in that transaction. And simply what that means is exactly what you described, Corey, is like you're purchasing a piece of property that isn't the same or greater value of what you sold. So you have a couple different options. You can buy that land, as you described, and pay tax on what you didn't deploy. That's fine. You can do a partial, it's a partial exchange. You can do that, that's fine. You can pay some tax, or you have to find some other replacement property to do that. Again, this is where the DST plays in really well. So the DST investment minimums on our side are 100K. I can usually duck people under that. So it works really well as this tool to pick up sort of the remainder, the boot that's in a transaction. It's a great tool to do that. So then you don't have to worry about any sort of the deferral aspects of this. Like, oh, I gotta pay a little tax bill. No, you don't. Utilize the 10, utilize the DST tool, the 1031 exchange, and the other property you're buying out, right? Use them together. So they'll be very happy. There'll be no tax bill at the end of the year. Very simple stuff for you to kind of kind of utilize it. So utilize it for that is important. And then again, as you described, it is great, is like break glass when needed. Emergency is for 1031 exchange is DST, right? That that is what that has a great usage for it as well. Okay. Um, we can get you to places very quickly where we're not having to pay a tax bill when you're in a cool.

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Let's talk it, let's let's transition to that DST. So, how could I have used this DST? And then what happens with the funds in the DST? Is it deployed somewhere else? Is it kind of sitting there idle until you have something to deploy? Like what is the DST? And then how could that be how could that have been utilized in this scenario?

Depreciation Recapture And Boot Traps

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, so I think in this scenario, it's simply having a conversation with us about, you know, let's look at the closing statement from your proper use sold. Let's look at maybe a pre-closing statement to the land that you want to buy, and then let's figure out what's left. And then what's left, we can find a way to put that into a DST. So it does kind of beg the question what the heck is a DST? Uh doesn't exactly roll off the tongue. The DST or Dollar Statutory Trust is simply a structure around a larger piece of real estate that you become a fractional owner of. You do not manage, you do not have decision rights into that. It rests with an investment company or sponsor, as we call them. Okay. Um, but it is one piece of property. So I think a lot of people gravitate towards, oh, it's a REIT. No, no. A REIT can buy, sell assets inside of it. You're never quite sure what's what's being held there. Um that's not the case in DST. DST is very clean, it's one property or two properties. It can be multiple properties, but they don't change. Okay. So we can do the underwriting on those. We have appraisals, we have third-party reports. We know everything about that property that you could imagine. So that you can make a wise investment decision about it. But in essence, you become a fractional owner of that property. And then, as I said, the management of that rests with someone else. So it is truly in that essence. It is passive.

unknown 18:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 18:59

I said before, like we talk about real estate being passive, but it's not really passive. This really is passive. Like you do have nothing that you need to do with these properties. All right, they're designed to cash flow, they're designed for the kind of clients that I've been describing earlier in mind. Uh, my clients want cash flow, they want stabilized properties that that pay them consistently each month. So that's the intent and design of the product is to do that. Yeah. But in essence, all it is really is is real estate. And if you want some examples locally, the fleet farm in Appleton, that main headquarters, larger fleet farm in Appleton, people may be familiar with, okay, that rests in a DST. So our investors are in that product as a DST.

unknown 19:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 19:36

It's a good real life example in our backyard.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

So what's happening then typically is you're not selling, say, this property I have in Florida for a million dollars, and then you're taking that million dollars and you're investing in a portfolio of 10 different single-family houses. I mean, it's going into like probably more of a net, net, net type of a product where, like you said, you got that long-term lease in place, stabilized income, that kind of thing.

SPEAKER_00 19:57

Anything can any kind of real estate can go into a DST. There are particular rules around the DST that that mean it really needs to be a stabilized asset. Okay, but we see a mix, equal mix of industrial type long lease product versus multifamily. Okay. Um we see an equal amount of that in the marketplace. And then a scattering of any asset that you could possibly imagine, healthcare, self-storage, anything that that is potentially stable and provides stable cash flow can be put inside this.

SPEAKER_01 20:27

Okay, cool. So is it when you do a DST, are you still paid out based on the performance of that property, or is the person managing it going to give you a consistent, hey man, we're gonna give you this consistent percent of return every month? Or are those just like we're gonna shoot for this and hope hope for this kind of a thing? How does that return work? So, like how, like, because for me, as we were talking, I don't know if we were talking when we hit record or prior to, but what we see a lot of times with with my rental portfolio in particular is one month it's, hey, we netted, you know,$20,$30,000 this month on cash flow. This is awesome. And then the next month it's like, oh, we had a bunch of you know, rehab we had to do. And so now we're right, we have to put in$20,000,$30,000 this month, right? And then it's it's always that consistency, like where you're talking about, that's always a little difficult to plan for. And maybe that's the case still with the DST, but is that you know, what do you typically see for your clients when they uh when they have funds invested in a DST as far as that consistency over time of a return?

SPEAKER_00 21:21

There's usually a structure inside of the DST that provides, in essence, a rent, quote unquote, to the investors paid for from the trust. So property performance does matter. Returns can move and fluctuate around property performance. Um, but when you have a net lease, triple net lease product industrial base, like there's a rent schedule that's being paid, and there's very little, if any, expenses. So investors should expect a high degree of consistency with that. We have certainly seen in the multifamily side, we have seen subsequent with the performance of the multifamily marketplace, particularly in the best markets, struggling for rent, expenses increasing. So we have seen some reductions in distributions there for sure. Okay. So you can only pay the stated rent as it's paid from the property. Very typically, or it would be atypical for a sponsor or an investment company to utilize their own funds and continue to pay that rent. Um, in many cases, you can think of the DST as a very closed-ended structure. Once that thing is built and we've raised the money for it, it's shut and we operate the property that way, right? Okay. And so the performance of property really does matter. Okay. Um, so we have seen some cuts in distribution of that. But by and large, what we're look what we look for and see is since that property is so large, we're accounting for that in the PL, right? Like we're creating a profile. Form an expected outcome based on, yeah, we know we're going to have maintenance pop-up. Yeah, we know we're going to have a certain amount of vacancy. Yes, over time, we know that we can increase rents two percent roughly per year. We know that, right? Um, so we can make some of those assumptions beforehand, and by and large, we track the assumptions because the properties are so stabilized in nature. Um, they're pretty easy to predict the outcome of performance. But as you know, it's real estate, and so anything can anything can and will happen.

SPEAKER_01 23:07

Yeah, well, yeah, like you said, you're gonna pr I it sounds like yeah, property taxes are gonna go up, insurance is gonna go up, you're baking all that in on the front end. Anyway, it sounds like that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 23:16

Trying your trying your best too, but yeah, I mean, people have to be aware. I think I think there is a little bit of a misnomer there when people go go ultimately passive that they expect, you know, this thing is like magic, right? It just pumps off cash regardless of what's happening with the property. Well, that's what's not true. It's still real estate. Yeah. So we got to expect some of those things. They're gonna pop.

SPEAKER_01 23:37

So a couple things now on that, Brandon. Somebody wants to get their money out of the DST. Is that possible or is it locked in there then once you start? How does that typically work?

SPEAKER_00 23:46

Yeah, there's two things with the DST that people hate. One is is the illiquidity of the asset and the product. So yeah, it is illiquid. So if you want to get your money out, I got ways to do that. You're not gonna like the outcome of doing that, right? Okay. Up front, you really the way to mitigate that up front is to really think about all right, if I'm going to invest 500K into this DST, do I need any of that cash today? And if you do, what do you need it for? And so that's part of the conversation we want to have with potential clients is if you have liquidity needs, let's understand them. Okay, right? So let's kind of look at your full financial picture. Do you have the subsequent, do you have the need of liquidity to do this? If you don't, I'm gonna tell you not to do it. Or I'm gonna tell you to take some dollars off the table up front, pay some tax, give yourself liquidity now. Let's not worry about that three, four years from now. Let's worry about it today and kind of deal with the issue now. So that's one that people don't like. And two, even though we're going passive and we think that sounds great and fun and awesome, like I like it, like all my investments are passive. Some people's lack of the ability to not have control anymore, yeah, they're freaked out by it. They're like, I've had control for 30 years, I'm gonna give it to these strangers I've never met before. Really? Are we sure we're doing that? And they just can't get their head there. So if those are things that people you can't get to, then this probably isn't for you. Yeah, because there's no way for me to change that. Um, you are not gonna have decisions here. Um, am I gonna influence the decisions that are made at that investment company level? Absolutely, especially if something's going wrong. Um, I mean I'm gonna be active in that, but you as an investor have nothing that you can do. Okay, that's uh something that it's hard for people to get their head around. Once they do and they they they can feel it and they they they get some trust, yeah. Uh then it then it becomes okay. But sometimes you just can't get get past it.

SPEAKER_01 25:28

Yeah, yeah. I and and then so then is that in there until they die? Like what happens to it at that point? Um I mean, what is the ultimate exit if ever from the DST?

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Eventually, those DSTs, the sponsor of the investment company will look to sell that asset. So they're looking for opportune times to do that. So the only thing that can inform us of when that might happen is history. So we've gone back and looked at the history of DST since its start in 2020, 2004. Okay, it became part of uh an IRS private letter ruling, made it reality. Um, and we find the whole time is between about seven and eight years. So they're gonna wait seven to eight years. They want the property to appreciate, right? And you get the appreciation, they don't get it either.

What A Delaware Statutory Trust Is

SPEAKER_01 26:12

Okay, that's what I was gonna ask. That was another question I had. Is like, because as a real estate investor, one of the things I'm thinking, if I go passive, what I give up is appreciation, right? Or debt pay down, or you know, that equity that we've we talk about, equity is a big the wealth cone, as I call it in real estate, right? Uh but you get to participate in that in the DST as well. You get all of it.

SPEAKER_00 26:32

And so the the the DST structure is a fee laden structure, let's call it that way. Instead of like people think of syndication and sort of that profit sharing, that 80-20, 70-30 kind of hockey stick thing where investors are taking, say, 80% of the profit and the sponsor investment company gets 20%. That's not a structure that's even allowed in the DST DST product. Okay. Instead, there is a fee, there are fee structures around this, but if this thing goes up, appreciates 100% in value, that's yours. Wow. That's yours. So there's there's unlimited upside there. But let's be honest, how much are we expecting in a stagnant interest rate environment on stabilized properties with you know stabilized tenants? Right. Not that much. No, not tons. No. Right. So I mean, have I seen it? Sure. Is it rare? Yeah.

unknown 27:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:20

So I mean, mute your expectations there a little bit, but it is yours from an appreciation perspective. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 27:25

That's pretty cool. I didn't I didn't know that about DSTs either. I didn't know a lot of this about DSTs today, Brandon. So I'm learning a lot right along with our audience, I'm sure, because this is, like we said, pretty muddy waters for most of us out there when it comes to these ESTs. So is there is there like an underlying bank loan with this stuff, or is it all part DSTs participating together for the, you know, as you mentioned, a fractional ownership type of a setup?

SPEAKER_00 27:49

Uh, there can be a permanent loan attached to the investment property. There can be that can be there. And it's very important for that. In a, we talked, let's go back to your example on 1031 exchange. Yep. Where you weren't purchasing um property that was the same value or greater than what you had sold. That gets even more complicated if you're selling a property and you're paying off a mortgage as part of that part of that transaction, right? So the IRS doesn't care. If you sell a property, you have to purchase another property of equal or greater value with the debt, right? So many investors coming into a 1031 exchange that want to utilize DSTs, they need some level of leverage or debt attached to it. So fortunately, some companies will do that. They'll go out and lever a portion of that property and get a bank loan so that people can really complete their 1031 exchange transaction. Okay. The leverage that you see here is very minute. So think like 30 to 50% LTB at the most, is what you'll kind of see here. Um, and then what's nice about that loan is it's completely non-recourse to investors. Okay. So if the worst of worst things happen, you're not signing your name or your personal property or personally liable for the loan at all. Yeah. And you think about that from a risk of the entire structure. If somebody slips and falls at that property, that is not your personal responsibility. Like it is now if you own those properties. That's kind of on you.

SPEAKER_01 29:09

Like that might be. You better have a nice little umbrella policy there. Yeah, not your problem here.

SPEAKER_00 29:14

So personal liability really comes off the table. So that's an important aspect, I think, of passivity that I probably skipped is that you don't have that personal liability attached to these properties.

SPEAKER_01 29:24

Right on. So at the end of that seven, eight year period, let's say that sponsor sells the uh the asset at that point. What happens then?

SPEAKER_00 29:31

You're back to you're kind of back to square one. Hopefully, if there's more money than we started with. Oh, yeah. Appreciation, right? Like hopefully hopefully we've done really well. And we're like, oh, we have more money. We get to do the same thing again. So what you're what you're probably gonna want to do from a tax liability perspective is we launch our way into another 1031 exchange. Okay. Go and pick another DST asset if you wanted to. You can, if you're like, you know what, I found something locally I really like, great. Do a 1031 exchange and buy your local apartment building. Do whatever you want. It's your money at that point. I got it. Um if you want liquidity at that point, that's the point where you can start thinking about liquidity. So you could take some cash off the table there too. Um, but we're a repeat cycle, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:08

Right on. Okay, cool. So it's not, it's it's it is very sounds very similar to syndications. It's just you're doing it, you're just doing it in a different vehicle, tax-wise, you're getting different treatment, that kind of thing, than a syndication.

SPEAKER_00 30:19

A thousand percent. I mean, if if folks understand that word and terminology and what it feels like, yeah, it's syndication, more or less. Syndication under another name, exactly to describe a different structure, different fee structure, different cost structure, different assets for sure. Um, not a value add component. You'll never see that here from a DST perspective. Okay. Um, but yeah, it has all the tones and overtones of syndication. Right on.

SPEAKER_01 30:42

Yeah, I could see that being a well, you meant you nailed it, I think, Brandon, because one of the benefits to owning and operating your own portfolio is you are in control. Right. And at any point, you can be like, well, I'll refinance this one, I'll pull, you know, I'll pull a line of credit on that one, I'll sell this one, 1031 this one over here, right? You can kind of play chess with all your chess pieces a little bit, right? When you throw it in the DST, like you said, you got to be in that mental spot to just like put the hands up and Jesus, take the wheel, baby.

SPEAKER_00 31:11

Yeah. So from my seat, I have to spend as much time thinking about is this a good deal, yes or no. And way more of my time is spent on is this a good investment company and sponsor, yes or no. Okay. That that dominates a lot of what we do from a research perspective. Okay. All I want simply, and it sounds simple, but it gets harder than you can imagine. I just want really good people doing decent deals. Okay. We'll do really well if all if we get that.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

Okay. All I'm really asking for. What are you seeing, Brandon? Like, just uh throw out ranges here. I'm not going to hold you to these things, but in today's environment, what do you see in somebody takes puts money into a DST? What are the what what could they expect for? Is it a monthly distribution, quarterly distribution, annual? What kind of percentages are people seeing? Like, what does that typically look like?

SPEAKER_00 32:00

Yep, they can expect monthly distributions from the vast majority of the products. Okay. And the cash flow will range multifamily, we see in the roughly in the fours still. Um on industrial assets, we can industrial and hospitality assets that can get up to six percent on an annualized cash flow basis. Um, but that's the range. I think four to six. Um, and then think consistent monthly sort of return attached to that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:25

My first thought was like, oh, that kind of sucks, four to six. But then I'm like, wait, that's four to six with no tax.

SPEAKER_00 32:30

So right? Yeah, and no work to do either. So, folks, to harken back to one of your episodes before, talking about you know, how much trap capital do you have, how much is your property worth, how much you're actually making, divide the two numbers, what do you get? More often than not, I would say probably for the last two, maybe three years or so, that number for the majority of people coming to me when we've done the work has been sub four percent. So then we need to have a real conversation about what do you want to do? Is there do you want to get more active and and maybe refi and get that capital work in some other way? Do you want to stop working so hard and go passive and take the let's say we can get you to five percent? I'm gonna give you five percent without paying taxes, as you mentioned, Corey, but also without doing the work. Yeah, right? Because in my mind, if you're doing the work and you're an active real estate investor, I expect you to make more than if you're passive. For sure. I think you want to make more than you're passive, like that's your time and labor that you're putting into sweat and tears and blood. Yes. I want you to be making more money than the numbers that I mentioned. If you're not, then I think you really need to look at like, what are you gonna do? Right to to increase that cash flow that you receive.

Liquidity And Control Tradeoffs

SPEAKER_01 33:44

Yeah, exactly. What's interesting is that I was telling Brandon this prior to us hitting record, is I spent way more time than I'd like to admit on ChatGPT uploading my portfolio and my, you know, what I what what the properties, the pr, you know, the equity in them and what's what's it worth and all my bank loans and all this stuff. And chat still doesn't remember, you know. It's like still like, oh, I still need loan information for these seven properties. I'm like, I already put it in there like seven times. Oh my gosh. But what was interesting is some of the properties it did, I did calculate that and I uploaded all my tax returns and everything else in there. So it has all of this information in there. And when I ran some of the numbers on it, which I'm like, I think these numbers are pretty accurate, you're right. I mean, it was like 2%. Some of them are negative, obviously, because you you know, have that property had a bad year, you had a lot of repairs or whatever. It's like, you know, what's the old rule Warren Buffett says, right? Number one rule is don't lose money, right? And if you're making four to six, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 34:36

Yeah, number two. No, that's right. Number two is read number one.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

Yes, read number one. So you can consistently make that money. And the other part to remember too about this, Brandon, for me, is that money that you're investing is tax, not taxed, right? Now you're gonna probably pay some tax on the four to six percent, right? Whatever. Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_00 34:53

Yeah, it's income, it's income broadly, broadly construed.

SPEAKER_01 34:56

So yeah, you're gonna find that. But not on the principle about so if you took that money out and you had to pay that tax. We talked about you know that first example, you had 40% tax on your family, on your family buddy's portfolio. Take your chunk, chop 40% off of that, then go invest that somewhere else, even if you're getting 8%. Now you lost 40% of your principal, that take a long time to make that money back up, right? Just on that initial chunk that you lost.

SPEAKER_00 35:20

So yeah, we've we figure, and we have a calculator for this too, if people want to get into it of to exchange or not to exchange, right? And so we figure roughly back of the napkin over a decade period, you need to double your return pattern that you're seeing in DSTs to break even. Wow. So if you can do that and you feel like you're doing that in uh in a risk-free or similar risk sort of way, I mean, kudos. I mean, hats off. Like, and if liquidity means that much to you, go ahead. Like, yep. You have my you have my blessing to go and and do and do that, right? Yeah. Um, but we think that's pretty tough over a decade period to produce double that return pattern consistently is not easy. Yep.

SPEAKER_01 36:00

Yep. One thing for the audience, just this is a side note, Brandon. I heard some comments from some people who listen to the episode that are anti, I wouldn't say anti, but maybe just their preference is not to bonus depreciate anything and and they're worried about what happens when you sell and this kind of thing. So, hey, a couple things Brandon's talking about here. Here's some options for you guys out there listening to this. The other option, though, I want to just give to the folks out there, if you're still actively buying, but you're just selling off some of these properties, or maybe you're lower performers, you have a low equity return on equity performers, but you're still buying other assets and you are cost able to cost tag those, you can still write off that whole amount of like what I'm doing with the land is the same thing. I'm gonna pay the tax on it, but because I'm still actively buying enough real estate that I can cost sag and wipe all that out, I'm I'm not uh I get to keep all that equity from that property, and I'm just using the new properties that I'm buying to wipe that other gain and the depreciation out. So there's other tools too, besides that, for those of you guys out there, if you are actively still buying real estate or other assets that you can depreciate, you can still wipe it out in other ways as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

Besides, yeah, you can yeah, so I think the terminology sort of what you described is kind of a lazy man 1031 where you're sort of reducing those losses as you described from other properties against what you had sold. Very viable strategy. Yeah. But I think I think I understand the problem from folks that don't want a bonus depreciated is well, I'm gonna have to keep doing that in perpetuity. Correct. And the law has to not change, right? Correct. For me to continue to take advantage of that. So, yes, you're right. This is a solution. Whereas if the music does stop there and we still have 1031 exchange, well, we use 1031 exchange. You mentioned something interesting there about I'll give like two use cases for folks that are listening. You mentioned something interesting there about low performers. So we have a handful of clients that are very active real estate investors, frankly, in Wisconsin, and continue to be, but took a look at their portfolio and saw that you know, the rule 80% of your problems coming from 20% of your properties, they saw it very busy. They got there, they are right. I don't want those anymore. And so they did that, like they took that portion of their portfolio and and chopped it off and utilized the 10th they wrong exchange TST product to put something passive in their portfolio, but they continue to be very active, um, up early every day, like grinding at it, love it, but just eliminating their problems, right? Um, so that's a viable way to use utilize us, and then I'm thinking about the folks that are just getting started too. They're in acquisition mode, right? Guess who you're buying properties from? Yeah, people who probably need our services. If you can show up and describe a complete solution for a seller that they've never heard of before, think about what kind of position that puts you in as a buyer, right? You think you're gonna fight on price anymore? Probably not. We're gonna build a pretty strong relationship with that. We've had a few people use utilize us that way, and it's worked really, really well for them and obviously for us too.

SPEAKER_01 38:59

Brandon, what you bring up right there is such a gold nugget for those of you guys out there in acquisitions mode. When when Brandon and I connected, I started reading through what who's Brandon, what does he do? This stuff, and I'm like, oh my gosh, this is a guy I've been looking for because of this exact scenario you're talking about, Brandon. We're talking to people about buying their portfolios, right? Or buying their apartment buildings or whatever. What do we do in real estate as real estate investors when we are going direct to a seller? We're solving sellers' problems, right? What are most of those sellers' problems? Man, I've had this thing for 30 years, I got a crap ton of equity, I depreciated it all. I'm gonna have to pay a buttload in taxes, right? So we have seller financing as an option that doesn't solve their recapture problem, right? That only solves the capital gain issue partially, right? A little bit of that. Having this DST in your back pocket to be like, oh, hey, I got a guy for you. I can connect you to Brandon who can help you solve this problem and get this equity, you know, keep all your all your proceeds and and help you get a return on this money passively. What a what an awesome tool to be able to use to solve somebody's problem. So, Brandon, I appreciate you bringing that up. I would have missed that point in today's interview if you didn't bring that up. But that is such a key, key point for those of you guys out there who are having direct-to-seller conversations.

SPEAKER_00 40:12

And do not assume your seller knows about this because think about nobody does. Let's think about Corey, think about you, how tapped in you are to all the real estate strategies that you're utilizing. You weren't aware of this, you're not alone. No, every room I go into, no one has any idea what the heck I'm talking about.

Returns Expectations And Real Math

SPEAKER_01 40:27

No, nope, dude. I'm telling you, I've had, and and we've struggled with this. Me and my acquisitions guys, we've been like, we've had sellers who have utilized the the the DST, and we've like reached out to them. We're like, hey, could you tell this other guy a little bit about it? And they're like, dude, I'm passive now. I mean, I'm not doing anything, right? That's screw you. Go figure it out, right? We're like, oh man, if we only had this guy, Brandon, in our back pocket, we could use utilize it, right? So I mean, the this is such a key point to today's episode, man, that you bring it up. And I'm so grateful that you did because this for the audience out there having those conversations, this is such a great tool to solve that seller's problem. Because I guarantee you, if you have enough conversations, this will be one of their problems. This taxes, you'll hear it over and over again for sure.

SPEAKER_00 41:13

It's everyone's problem. And they have to do their issue. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

So yeah, exactly. Well, let's talk briefly, Brandon, as we get to wrap here. Just we don't want to get too deep into probably the weeds with opportunity zones, but talk a little bit about opportunity zones and how people can utilize some of these uh tools and and assets, uh selling the assets with the opportunity zone stuff that's out there right now.

SPEAKER_00 41:36

Yeah, we're we're sort of building the material, anticipating um 2027 coming our way to really utilize that. But in Aspen's wood, an opportunity zone, opportunity zone fund will allow you to do um is make that sale your property not perform a 1031 exchange. And what they're looking for, the IRS looking for is you reinvest the difference. So they want you to reinvest your gain. You get to keep your principal, so it gives you some liquidity in that in that equation. Okay. You're dropping into this fund, which in essence will be locked for uh the better part of a decade. Okay. Um, so there's two parts of that. One, eventually you will have to pay that tax bill down the line in that investment. Usually we're looking for those investment companies to perform some sort of refi activity at some point in that investment that would allow some liquidity for you to pay that tax. Okay. So there's a mechanism there to do that. But then once you've hold held that for 10 years, the gains that you make on that new investment become completely tax-free. Oh, okay. So it takes that completely off the table. So it's a tool. I think we still lean on 1031 to DST first for real estate investors. But for our non-real estate investors that have a tax problem, there is no other game in town for you to defer capital gains or eliminate capital gains in this way as with opportunity zones. So to us, it becomes very attractive to people who are selling businesses, people who I guess they don't have big crypto gains anymore. But at some point they had big crypto gains, right? Or stock, personal stocks that they have as well. Uh becomes a great tool to utilize in in that way. So, in combination, I'm thinking about our business owners who probably own that real estate as well. Great combination tools here, right? 1031 DST plus OZ on the sale of your of your business. Okay. And then of course, for folks that want are seeking liquidity and they're like, oh, wow, here's a good way for me to get my basis out and to go deploy that somewhere else. Like the math on that might work pretty interesting for folks. Um, the four to six percent returns they we saw before. You know, think about the math now, um, combining those two tools.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

So a couple questions on the opportunity zone for you, Brandon. One, where do people find opportunity zones, right? Like there's funds I believe that you guys invest in, but say somebody's just out there and they're like, hey, I want to invest in an opportunity zone. What is that? How do they find it? What's the process look like? Two, let's talk for our business owners looking to exit, right? Let's say they have no data on the property or on their business, right? They sell, they got a big, big chunk of cash to go put to work, right? What so you're saying they can get all of that principle out? Or can you explain that a little bit for somebody in that scenario?

SPEAKER_00 44:18

Yep. So let's do part one. So if somebody wants to do their own opportunity zone, is that sort of the question?

SPEAKER_01 44:23

Yeah, yeah. Let's say they're just an investor out there and they're like, eh, I want to go invest in this opportunity zone.

Opportunity Zones And The 2027 Reset

SPEAKER_00 44:27

No idea. I think they to be honest, I don't know. I have no clue. Uh wish the buttons No, I'm kidding. I mean, I think I think they should stay very attuned to how these these maps will get redrawn. I don't know if that has happened yet. Okay. For Opportunity Zone 2.0 is where we're headed to. Again at the start of 2027. I know there's been a lot of talk about redrawing the maps. Some of the maps from the law part one that was put in place in 2016. Some may say, I wouldn't say it. Some may say some of these areas are deemed opportunity zones really don't look like opportunity zones. If that makes sense. So a little bit of the um the letter of the law and the intent of the law were kind of misaligned. Personally, from our perspective, we love folks that can add value to a community that needs it and provide a return. Like I want that full you know triple win scenario for this. So we we lean towards providers that are investing in areas that have been underutilized. I think there are opportunities there. In particular, what we've done before is areas in Detroit and Cleveland in particular have proven to be great places to invest. I know that's so counterintuitive for people who haven't done in on those places, but they are Detroit in particular are booming.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Yeah, they really they really turned it around in the last what five or six years, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_00 45:45

Absolutely remarkable to see what has happened in those areas. And we've done boots on the ground there to see it and touch it and feel it in person. Um it's very, very real. So we we love those opportunities in in particular. But if folks want to do it themselves, I would really encourage them to kind of aim towards 2027 and just keep an eye on the news about where these zones are. Um, there will be a section of the of uh government website that'll provide full rules on exactly how to do this. Doesn't happen in zone one. Um, I would imagine with law 2.0 it'll be the same. Okay. Um the work that we'll do on the funds is last time I believe there were 8,400 different opportunity zone funds that were filed. All those have to be filed again with the government. Okay. We looked at all of them and sort of sized them down based on different criteria and really came up with about half a dozen folks that we really wanted to dig into and do business with. Um we'll do the same thing this time around. Um thesis have changed, so we'll do that same work and so we'll find the places that we think are best for folks to invest their company. Now one investor uh addressed your second question about business owners. Yep. Yeah. So really what what they could do is to think about what is their basis in that in that business. Okay. So that might be a hard thing to again. I default to our I'm I'm not a CPA either. So I default to them to help us figure that out. But in essence, if they wanted to invest every every dollar of gain into an opportunity zone, they could do that. And that would that would help them to defer that tax for as long as possible through that fee.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

And then that gain, so you said you're still gonna pay tax at the end of that decade on that gain from the sale, but not on the gain from that investment 10 10-year period of what that amount produced. Is that right?

SPEAKER_00 47:28

Yeah, that original capital gain is going to be paid, I believe, and we have to spend some more time with Opportunity Zone 2.0 laws, but I believe that'll happen at the five-year mark of that investment. Okay. And that's the end of the year. That's why you need that refi to be able to pay that tax. We would we would like that refi. We we started to think about for our folks that invest in Opportunity Zone 1.0, the tax bill is due this year, 2026. Okay. So we've started to think about like, all right, what are other ways and other methods we can use to defer that tax if a refi isn't coming our way? Okay, so there's a tax bill, we know it's coming. What other strategies can we use to sort of defer that or reduce it? Right? So we'll try to look at the different options for them. Um, but yeah, it at some point it doesn't eliminate your original tax bill, it does not do that. Okay. So we need to find some way to mitigate that. But the benefits here, again, if you if you're not selling real estate, here's your options. You can either invest in OZ and like kick the can down the road a little bit or pay it. What would you like to do?

unknown 48:28

Right.

SPEAKER_00 48:28

Maybe you want to maybe you want to pay it. I don't know. I I prefer to kick the can down the road and find an option that makes sense to me. And you can kind of mitigate that tax bill later. Yeah, I prefer to do that.

SPEAKER_01 48:40

Yep, yep, for sure. Well, Brandon, man, this is awesome, dude. I I learned a ton here. Maybe it's because I'm always thinking of this stuff right now, like as I have a portfolio, so it's very relevant for me as like as I'm looking at equity and I'm like, what how do I get better returns and consistent and all that stuff? So I appreciate this, man. And just going through that potential 1031 into this, this has been very timely from my perspective. So I hope you guys are listening and got a lot of value out of today's episode as well. And um, Brandon, we'll get your contact info out there here shortly. But before we do, we always wrap with our favorite question because we have people outside of Wisconsin who are thinking about investing in Wisconsin, but they don't know anything about the state, man. So we like to tell them a little bit about it. So do you have a favorite Wisconsin tradition or place that you like to visit here in the state? Maybe not Oneida after this last weekend, but never again. Yeah. Brandon, Brandon and his buddies uh gave gave a nice donation to Oneida Bingo and Casino in Green Bay this last weekend. Yeah, it wasn't the first time.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

It may not be the last time that we that we donate. No, I'm I spent a lot of time, um, I spend a lot of time out of state. Um, I'll be headed to Arizona for a conference this week, and um inevitably folks ask me about Wisconsin. And there's about a million things that I could tell them, but I constantly kind of go back to, especially in Arizona, people want to talk about golf. I'm like, if you want to golf, kind of get out of your 100-degree heat here in Arizona in the summer and come to Wisconsin. If people are watching this behind me, there's a beautiful drawing of Aaron Hills behind me. That's probably my favorite place to visit. Okay. But if you said whistling straits or if you said insert the other top 100 courses we have in the state, and then the I brought people here to play what I would say maybe the second or third tier courses underneath it, and they're like, These are incredible places too. Yeah, so I don't think we underappreciate the quality and the diversity and the accessibility of golf that we have here. For sure. Almost unparalleled to anywhere else in the country. Like we really take it, we really take it for granted how easy it is to go and play anywhere you want to, yeah. Um, and then how easy it is for you to find an amazing top tier in the world golf course. Yeah, maybe in your backyard. Right. That's that's the thing I would tell people about Wisconsin is is hey, we're we're up there with we'll take the Pepsi challenge with anybody on golf courses.

Wisconsin Golf Picks And Wrap-Up

SPEAKER_01 50:54

Agreed. I and you know, as I was saying, we have a place in Florida, and so we spent time down there in the winters. And the first year, I remember going down there. My dad came down to visit and he got into golf, you know, in his retirement, and so we're at we like to go golf a little bit. And we like went to looking, we went looking for courses, and a a bunch of them were like short, shorter courses. Like, I didn't even realize this was a thing because all of our courses are like standard courses for the most part, unless you're specifically going to a par three, but this was just like their normal nine-hole thing, and it was like the longest hole was like 300 yards, and I was like, What the heck? This is weird. You had no long par fives or anything like that, all right? And then like the course itself was just trash. Like, I mean, it was just not good. So we went to, I'm like, well, maybe it was just this course, right? So we went to another course that was more higher-end course. I was still like, these courses are trash. Orlando didn't matter, didn't matter what where we went golfing compared to Wisconsin. You nailed it, man. Our courses, even like our worst courses, are beautiful compared to some other places in the country, man.

SPEAKER_00 51:54

So yeah, it's yeah, I second that opinion. And then accessibility too. Like just drive south of the border if if you're if you're that daring to add to Illinois, go try to play golf on a nice day on a Wednesday. I challenge you to do that, to just try to walk on somewhere on a Wednesday. No chance. Not happening. Really? Full, full. They don't have the same accessibility though. Crazy, man.

SPEAKER_01 52:15

Yeah, I live up indoor county and we've got some beautiful courses up here. One of my favorites Peninsula Golf, Peninsula State Golf Course, one of my favorites up here. Beautiful views, beautiful course. So well, Brandon, how do people get in touch with you, man? You got so you probably got a lot of people's wheels turning today, brother. How do if somebody wants to dive into this more with you, talk about their their their portfolio or just any of the stuff that you described today? What is the best way for them to get in contact with you, man?

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Lots of different ways. Uh, shoot me an email. It's probably the easiest thing. Brandon at investwithinsight.com. Uh visit the website, investwithinsight.com. Uh, lots of resources out there. You'll find links to our podcasts, you'll find links to educational material on these topics, um, a plethora of things that you can find. But then schedule a call. Like shoot me an email and let's just get on the phone if you have a real example, just like the one that Corey went through. Um, everyone's example is a little bit different. We've heard them all, but you probably need advice that pertails to your exact situation. That's just talk about it. Yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_01 53:15

Is there any fee for that, Brandon? Or is that just something you guys do? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 53:18

No, I I love to talk to people about kind of what they're working on. So, yeah, there's no charge to do that.

SPEAKER_01 53:23

Cool, cool. So, again, Brandon's podcast, the retiring real estate investor podcast. So go look it up, guys. Tune into that one. You get these two podcasts going, Wisconsin Investor, that one, man. What else do you guys need? I mean, you're set. You're gonna be pro real estate investors in no time. Love it, love it. Awesome, Brandon. Well, thanks. Thanks again, man, for taking time to be on here. And uh, thank you guys for tuning in. Please like, share, subscribe, do all that fun stuff. But not only for helping us out if you got value out of this, but for yourself. Remember, anything you put out there, people are then going to know that you're investing in real estate. They're gonna bring you deals, they're gonna bring you money, they're gonna talk to you about different opportunities. So do it for yourself as well. But appreciate you again, Brandon. Thanks for tuning in, guys. We'll see you on the next episode.