Still Reading Smut

Pop the cork with us as we open season three and get real about how a half-joking idea turned into a ritual that changed our reading lives. We trace our path from sneaking dog-eared paperbacks to championing today’s expansive romance universe, and we talk about what happened when we let romance back in — more joy at home, a revived writing habit, and a community that feels like a warm, rowdy book club.

We swap origin stories and gateway reads, then dive into tastes that reveal who we are: forced proximity for pressure-cooker growth, friends to lovers for rock-solid foundations, enemies to lovers when the heat needs a sharp edge. Spice gets its own spotlight as we map jalapeño slow burns to habanero thrills and draw the line at Carolina Reaper chaos. Along the way, we shout out our insta-buy and comfort authors — Lisa Kleypas, Emma Hamm, Heatherly Bell, Ashley Herring Blake, B.K. Borison, Katie Robert, Fallon Ballard — and the singular books we’d be buried with, because some stories become part of your DNA.

You’ll also hear how this show actually gets made: racing two-week cycles, editing transcripts that mistake our voices, migrating a website without losing our minds, and keeping the marketing engine humming. Through it all, the laughs steady us. We’re building something welcoming and interactive, where your recs flood our DMs and your niche tropes find a home. On the desired horizon: playful staged reenactments with actor friends, reader retreats, maybe even a romance cruise if we can convince Meghan to board.

If you love smart, spirited talk about romance novels, from historical comfort reads to dark fantasy detours, you’re in the right place. Hit follow, share this with your bookish bestie, and tell us your ride-or-die trope and your latest auto-buy author. Your rec might be our next favorite read.

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Transcript

Nicole:

Hello, I'm Nicole Danielle. 

Meghan:

And I'm Meghan Leigh. And this is Romance on the Rocks, where two bookish biddies imbibe and talk about romance novels. And we've been doing that for over a year at this point.

Nicole:

Yeah. This will now be season three of the podcast.  And we thought this would be a great opportunity to start out the new year and for you to get to know us a little bit better. 

Meghan:

Or at least get reacquainted. 

Nicole:

Reacquainted. Yeah. Or if you're just joining us for the first time. 

Meghan:

Acquainted. 

Nicole:

Yes. So, we'll start off with our cocktails. We have opened a bottle of bubbly. We I shouldn't speak for you, but I love some Corbell bubbly. It's my favorite bubbly. 

Meghan:

It is far too sweet. However, I'm going to drink it because it is a celebration. And when you celebrate, you drink bubbly. So yeah. 

Nicole:

All right. 

Meghan:

Cheers. 

Nicole:

See, and it’s not supposed to be sweet. 

Meghan:

Okay. It's not sweet for uh…

Nicole:

It's not a Moscato for the love of God. 

Meghan:

Yeah. It's more because it's just not in the in the refined palate that I have to be to be drinking such things. 

Nicole:

Okay. 

Meghan:

Because you know it's usually just like a gin and tonic. I'm a boring gal. What can I say? 

Nicole:

Okay, for this first part, the segment is called “Who We Are Now versus When We Started”. And Meghan, how has the podcast changed you since the first episode? 

Meghan:

Oh boy. So, for those of you who had been with us for a while, you know that when we initially introduced ourselves, my introduction was I don't read romance novels and I haven't for a very long time. So, clearly this has changed me in the respect that I am now reading romance novels again. And it had been a long time. Like I…

Nicole:

Yeah, same. 

Meghan:

I probably had been in middle school or early high school. And forging ahead, we are old ladies now in our mid-40s. So, it had been a while. Anyway, I think that's the biggest thing, really. And I have found an appreciation for this type of book, this type of novel that I didn't have before because my memories were all of those classics that we used to read. You know, you mention all the time like Jude Devereux, Barbara Cartland, um, and those kinds of authors. There's so much more out there now. 

Nicole:

Yes. Oh my god. There's a whole world of romance and smut. 

Meghan:

Ladies, I mean, you are amazing. We have seen that we all grew up with those classics and decided we were going to forge ahead into a brand-new world. And that has been really fun and really engaging. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. How do you feel like you've changed since the beginning of the podcast? 

Nicole:

I feel like I'm incorporating romance more into my own personal life a lot more. I'm getting inspired. I'm feeling the love, and I'm sharing that love with my husband more.  So it is, it is fostering and spurring the romance on the home fires. Yes. 

Meghan:

Nice.

Nicole:

Yeah.

And also, like you mentioned, I hadn't read romance in years, a long, long time. And I I'm enjoying reading again. For a long time after college, I was so over it. The biggest things I read were cookbooks and plant books. So, I feel like I'm reading again and writing. It's inspired me to write as well. And I used to write a ton, and I just kind of blew it off and stopped. And now I'm feeling so inspired on that front too. 

Meghan:

I will second what you said about reading more because I definitely started reading more. And not just the books for the podcast. Read a significant number of books in this last year because, like you, probably took a hiatus for a while. 

We get to the point in our lives where we're like, I'm so busy, I don't have time. Yes, you do, you do. When I say you, I'm putting that out there as an admonishment for myself. 

Nicole:

Right. 

Meghan:

You know what I mean? But I do think that is something that as a society we've gotten away from. And it is so inspiring to see this community of mostly women, not all women, but this community of folks who are really getting behind the romance genre, and they're so supportive of each other, and they're supportive of each other as writers and as readers. And I just love that. The community itself is just a beautiful thing.

Nicole:

I agree. I love it. What part of your personality comes out the most on our podcast?

Meghan:

Snark. Snark and I hope some comedy. I get so worked up though when I get frustrated and I have my thoughts about something. And I do feel like sometimes I can be a little overzealous. After we get done recording, there are some nights where I say to Nicole, I'm like, oh no, I feel like I just sounded like a horrendous wench. So, I really hope that I don't come across as a bitter old lady. But I'm sure there are moments. So yeah, that's what I got. And you? 

Nicole:

I think I definitely get impassioned about topics, especially when I'm concerned about characters and their futures. Also, I feel like just hanging out with you and talking with you brings out the humor and the fun and the kitsch. And we do banter and play off of each other well. So, I would say that that part of my personality comes out as well. 

Nicole:

That's another thing that I don't know where your questions are going for the rest of this podcast. Guys, I'm just here. This woman is so good at organizing and coming up with creative ideas, and I just kind of like ride that wave. I just want to put out there, that's another thing that this entire adventure has been fantastic for, is it really has had us connecting on a weekly/bi-weekly, you know, like minimum basis because we are having all these conversations that are spurred from the things we're reading and trying to get together and figure out our cocktails and the tech and logistics and things like that. And so, we've been able to really foster our own relationship. So, the friendships, and again, that goes back to the community idea, but specifically between you and me. And that has been great. 

Nicole:

Yeah, I love it. What's something listeners would be surprised to learn about you? 

Meghan:

Surprised to learn about me? 

Nicole:

Yeah. For people who don't know you. 

Meghan:

I don't like to be touched, guys. Don't touch me. Just don't. There are some of these books that make me so uncomfortable because the amount of like caressing of body parts. 

Nicole:

Every time I read, he rubbed his thumb over and over in a circle on her wrist. I'm like, oh, stop it. 

Meghan:

Yeah. Yeah. My husband has likened me to a prickly cactus. And there are there are several phrases. I am so sorry, my love. I yeah, I don't know if it's a sensory issue with my nerves or what. 

Nicole:

I think it definitely is because I know my skin is super sensitive. And you and I have discussed before. I need firm touch, not a whisper, wispy, feathery. 

Meghan:
 My most recent book that I read for the podcast, which was called A Christmas Kind of Perfect. There was a point in the book where the male protagonist talks about tickling her toes until she begs for him to stop. And I just I almost lost it. So yeah, that's maybe what some people don't know about me. And Nicole, what don't I know about you? What don't they know about you?

Nicole:

You know everything about me. Um, but I think it might be interesting for our podcast listeners to know that I have lived all over the world. 

Meghan:

Um, there you go. 

Nicole:

Because my father served in the military. Thank you, Dad, for your service. And I was born in Connecticut, but I grew up primarily in Hawaii.

And then some time in Japan, in Italy, England, Virginia, Connecticut. 

Meghan:

Yeah. I like how you go for like the fun fact, and I just go for get away.

Nicole:

It's where my brain is at tonight.

Meghan:
 I'm that's so sweet, though. I think I'm just on the heels of that last book.

It's just…

Nicole:

All right, moving on to segment number two. You're reading origin stories. Boy.

First question. First romance book you ever read. 

Meghan:

I would not be able to tell you the title, but I do remember there was one that was pretty racy and definitely mentioned body parts I probably shouldn't have been seeing smacking together. And I know that I knew that I should not have that book. 

Very early on in our podcast, I talked about an early romance experience, which was I had a friend, Amy Campbell, and she and I in middle school would walk across the street to the public library and we would rent the smutty books. Yes. And we would take them back to school and read the smutty sections out loud to our…

Nicole:

And I know the story and I love it because it's hilarious. 

Meghan:

Yeah, we would read those passages out loud to like the ladies at our lunch table. And that was, yeah, and an early romance uh yeah, origin story. I know some of yours. So, let's see if uh there's one that I haven't heard before.

Nicole:

My first romance book that I ever read, honestly, Meghan, I could not tell you what the title was. I know it was a Judith McNaught. I know that for sure. And I know it was some kind of historical fiction, probably something medieval-esque. Um, that's all I remember. Sorry, can't tell you more, which is kind of sad now. I'm like, oh, for the purpose of this podcast, it'd be great if I could remember the exact book, but I can't.

Meghan:

Here's the thing, though, the fact that you know it's Judith McNaught, we might be able to narrow that down. Like once you start reading the backs of these books, I bet you'd be like…

Nicole:

I'm sure it would come back to me. Yeah. The book that made you fall in love with the romance genre. Oh. I'll tell you mine. Okay. B.K. Borison. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Because I've always liked romance novels, but then I didn't really give a shit about them on site. 

Meghan:

But that's the author. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

Meghan:

Okay, for our listeners, B.K. Borison's the author. You said the book. 

Nicole:

Mixed signals. 

Meghan:

There you go. 

Nicole:

Yeah. And then I was like, and I officially love romance novels. 

Meghan:

I know early on, the first book I read that made me made me think, okay, there are good books out there was my Heatherly Bell. Yeah, Heatherly Bell. Yeah, Charming Christmas. And then going further into the future, there is one I forgot to mention when you and I were doing our recap, and I was shocked I forgot to mention it, but it was Delilah Green Doesn't Care. Yeah. Ashley, Ashley Herring Blake. Completely forgot that I read that this past year. Fantastic. And again, I'm just repeating myself, but the Emma Hamm, the Katee Roberts, like any of those really made me pretty happy.

Nicole:

Gateway romance subgenre.

Meghan:

Gateway romance subgenre, probably historical. 

Meghan:

I was gonna say historical for me as well. I think though that that is really indicative of when we grew up. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Oh, absolutely. 

Meghan:

And that's why I said I love the fact that people who grew up when we did and like the decade after us, we all kind of grew up with that same type of romance. And we clearly knew that something else needed to come from that. Right. So, the authors that are writing today are just running away with it and doing such a fantastic job. 

Nicole:

Absolutely. 

Megahan:

So, I think probably if you ask the majority of people our age, it'd be it'd be historical romance. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Meghan, the romance book you'd hand someone who claims they don't like romance. 

Meghan:

That's a tough question because I would have to know a little bit more about what they typically read.

Nicole:

Well, right. Are they into like murder mystery? Are they into paranormal?

Are they into fantasy? 

Meghan:

Because I think that's where the misconceptions come from. It's exactly where I started when we started this podcast. In my mind, romance was one thing.  

Nicole:

It was romance novel.

It was bodice ripping good times. 

Meghan:

Correct.  Like, I truly had no idea that there were so many like sub-genres and little interesting niches. That's a really tough one to say. If I had to go for something that was just a very basic without getting into the fantasy worlds and things like that, it's that one that I can never think of the title by Fallon Ballard. 

Nicole:

All I want is you. 

Meghan:

All I want is you. It okay, that right there, that just kind of it's a very generic kind of title, right? 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

And it is conceptually just a second chance romance, forced proximity, very basic kind of premise. However, it's written in a way that feels very believable. The characters feel approachable. The premise when you're reading it feels like it could have happened. And there's a lot of humor behind it. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

So, if I was just starting with, I don't know what they typically read, I think that one might actually be a good place to start. But if I knew them better, I might have a different answer. What are you thinking? 

Nicole:

BK Boris and mixed signals. We're just, guys, I am so sorry that you just have to listen to us and be like, we're just gonna say the same shrine over and over again. 

Meghan:

Which is true.  Like you find something you love…

Nicole:

And I just I love it so much. If you're if you're talking, what genre are you? Are you into murder mystery? 

Meghan:

Right. 

Nicole:

Are you into paranormal? Are you into this? Then yeah, I have different recommendations. 

Meghan:

Exactly. 

Nicole:

That's what I'm saying. But I'm just giving you a general one-of-the-mill, here's your everyday romance. That's what it's gonna be.

All right, segment three. Your current romance tastes. What are your favorites and least favorite tropes? 

Meghan:

I guess I personally do like a good second chance romance. I like the forced proximity because I do think that that gives you a lot of insight into how people act under pressure. Yes. And I appreciate that. Yeah. Now, if I were gonna get even more broad, I have discovered that I really enjoy the fantasy realms that are darker. 

Nicole:

Sure. 

Meghan:

So, a lot of the demons and the monsters and things like that. I like the building of those, those dark fantasy worlds, and I've always been drawn to uh people who maybe are a tish outside of the standard operating like procedures. I don't know. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

Meghan:

Yeah. Like I've always been kind of drawn to those, like the people who just they think differently. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

And that draws me in. So, when I've got something like that to figure out, I love it. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Where are you falling?

Nicole:

I love forced proximity as well. I prefer friends to lovers.

Sometimes I'm okay with enemies to lovers, but sometimes I find it challenging because I think when I hate, I hate so deeply. 

Meghan:

I do love a good enemies to lovers too, though. 

Nicole:

But my preference is friends to lovers because I firmly believe when you have that foundation, it just builds a really solid relationship thereafter. Personal opinion, personal preference. Because with my current husband, we were definitely friends first. But it wasn't long before the passion and the attraction kicked in. But yeah.

But I think that's why the passion and attraction kicked in. Because it was like we see eye to eye on so much. We have such a shared background. All right. Insta by authors. You see this author, you are instantly buying the book or renting it from the library or what have you. Well, I'm gonna say Emma Ham because you picked up the latest Emma Ham and I didn't even know it was on your TBR.

Meghan:

Yeah. Well, I didn't either, to be perfectly fair. I just looked to see what books were available at my library, and that was the one I could get. And who else are your insta-buy authors? Katie Robert, Heatherly Bell, Ashley Herring Blake, Fallon Ballard, Paige Lavoie. Those are the ones that come to mind right now. And I am sure that I am missing people. 

Nicole:

I'm shocked that Batrice Small is not on your Instabuy list. 

Meghan:

F that. 

Okay. For those of you who might be new, Bertrice Small is one of those classic authors who really could be looked at as like what the godmother of smut. 

Nicole:

Yeah. She started writing in like the 1970s. She's got a prolific backlog.

Nicole:

Yeah.  I mean, she was groundbreaking in terms of the romance champs. 

Meghan:

I give her a lot of credit for what she accomplished. 

Nicole:

Pushing boundaries and envelopes. 

Meghan:

However, by today's standards, most of it is very problematic and it is difficult to read. And both Nicole and I took on a Bertrice Small book this past year. And different books. Yes, different books. I took mine on, mine was called Lara, and I read that during our Fae and Fairies. 

Nicole:

And mine was The Border Lord’s Bride, and I read that during our Scottish and Irish month. 

Meghan:

Yeah. And boy, oh boy, those are super problematic. If you guys want to hear me at my absolute ragey-est, you will want to listen to the…

Nicole:

What the fuck, Bertrice? 

Meghan:

Yeah. A number of times I said that. And I stick, I stick with it. 

Nicole:

Oh, for sure. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

For sure. 

Meghan: Yeah. However, she did give us our favorite male anatomy. 

Nicole:

Yes. Manroot. 

Meghan:

Manroot. So, thank you, Bertrice. I do appreciate it. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

For me, auto buy Lisa Claypus. Oh, yeah. You love it. I love me from Lisa Cleypas. Yeah. Uh, Heatherly Bell. For sure. Uh Emma Hamm. 

Meghan:

Definitely. 

Nicole:

And I'm right now, Meghan. I'm just scrolling through my TBR pile. Oh boy. And Lisa Cleypas, Lisa Cleypas, Lisa Cleypas. Judith McNaught, Jude Devereau. I'm still here for them. Totally still here for them. Charlotte Stein.

Um Emily B. Rose. Let's see. 

Meghan:

Nicole's got a cheat sheet here, you guys. I'm just doing my my memory, so I know I'm forgetting people. I apologize.

Nicole:

Elizabeth Cole, Gina Conkl. Uh, Laura Trentham. But not Shady Jady. 

Meghan:

No.

Nicole:

No, that was pretty good. Although you did just present me with her Wisconsin 50 States book, and I will read it. 

Meghan:

And again, for those of you who don't know, when we say Shady Jady, who are we talking about? 

Nicole:

Janet Daly. 

Meghan:

Janet Daly. Here's a thing that we learned. Nicole thought she was gonna get through all 50 states.

Nicole:

I was like, I'm gonna read 50 states of romance.

Meghan:

Yeah, all from Miss Daly. And that stopped after two books, three books. It was pretty brutal. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

I think the hardest one was the Michigan one. 

Meghan:

Oh, yeah, it was terrible. 

Nicole:

Where you literally have a sequel written in your mind. 

Meghan:

In my head, I have a sequel to that book. 

Nicole:

It's very sleeping with the enemy. There's murder. 

Meghan:

I'm still working on it. I am like ready to go. 

Nicole:

All right. Spice level preferences and how they've changed. If they have changed. 

Meghan:

I don't know that mine have changed. I think I've just honed in on what I prefer, which is I tend to be a jalapeno girl. I am absolutely okay with a slow burn because I like that build up. I like the anticipation. I like trying to figure out how we're going to get from here to there. I like the long game. And I'm probably a jalapeno girl. And habanero's fine. But I'm more of a jalapeno girl. When I did have my Carolina Reaper book, that was a lot for me. 

Nicole:

Yep. Yep. 

Meghan:

That was that was a lot for me. Yeah. And uh I don't need that again. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. I know you've discovered. 

Nicole:

I thought I was a jalapeno girl when we started.

I'm a habanero girl. I'm reaching into scotch bonnet and other ghost peppery regions. The further along we go, and we were just talking about this at lunch today. I was like, you know what? The spicier the better. And every time I think it could be spicier, I'm like, girl, your tastes are changing. I did read of my own free will randomly, just out of curiosity, a book that ended up being a Carolina Reaper, not for the podcast, but of my own choice. And Meghan, I have regrets. And I don't think I should have read that book.

Meghan:

Oh. And I can say that as much as I like a spicy book, I am not a Carolina Reaper girl. You know, there is such a thing as too spicy. Okay, the one book we each would want to be buried with us or cremated, however we want to go. 

Meghan:

Oh. It's still gonna be Dark of the Moon by Karen Robards. 

Nicole:

Really? 

Meghan:

Yes. Yes. Yes, because it's such a storied book. That is my that is my book. That's the one that, okay, even though we talked about like what are your origins, yeah. I didn't mention that book, but that is the book.

Nicole:

It's your pivotal. It is.

That is the book. So, it would still have to be that one, regardless of how much I like these newer books. She started it all. And you what would she get buried with? Okay, honestly, right now, out of everything I've read so far to this point in my life, Call of the Sea by Emily B. Rose, because I have a sacred inner mermaid. I grew up by the ocean. I've always been enraptured with mermaid stories, Daryl Hannah and Splash and all of that. And I loved Call of the Sea. And I once was given a book from my Aunt Vicky - Aunt Victoria - where it was about the ocean and by the sea.

And she put inside this lovely little note. And I'm so sorry, I can't remember exactly the wording, but it was essentially like the sea calls to thee.

And so, then Emily B. Rose's whole thing was like, the sea is calling you. And I was like, yeah, that really speaks to my heart.

And I love it. 

Meghan:

That’s so sweet. 

Nicole:

Yeah. So that would be what I would go with. 

Meghan:

I promise to bury you with that if you get knocked off. 

Nicole:

Appreciate you. Thanks. 

Meghan:

They can't bury me till they find the proper copy of Dark of the Moon.

Nicole:

That's fair. That's fair. That may take a while. You may not get buried for one.

Meghan:

It's okay. I need to be late to my own funeral anyway. 

Nicole:

All right. Segment four. Cocktail personality quiz. If you were a cocktail, what would you be? 

Meghan:

Something easy and quick.

Nicole:

Okay. 

Meghan:

Probably a little bitter. 

Nicole:

That's perfect. That's amazing. Okay. That's lovely. 

Meghan:

Just telling it like it is, Nicole.

Nicole:

I would be a glass of prosecco. 

Meghan:

Listen to this girl. She's shaking her head in defeat. 

Meghan:

You had such a witty response. I got nothing. 

Meghan:

I don't even know what questions are coming. You're just getting whatever's coming off the top.

Nicole:

No, I'm gonna be a glass of prosecco.

Uh effervescent, just a celebration mode type of thing. 

Meghan:

You know what? Prosecco is tried and true. It is dependable. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Yeah. That is you. 

Meghan:

It goes great with spicy food. 

Meghan:

There you go. 

Nicole:

Okay. What drink best represents your reading taste? 

Meghan:

Oh. 

Nicole:

I know this one's hard. 

Meghan:

I'm actually gonna go with uh a hot take. Coffee. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

I know I'm not going cocktail on this one.

No, no, it just says what drink. 

Meghan:

Yeah, what drink.  I'm going coffee because I do feel like reading energizes me, but it's also very comforting. And I do like to cuddle up and be warm when I'm reading. So usually, I'm on my easy chair and I'm underneath my comforter. It doesn't matter if it's 80 degrees out, but I do feel like it's a mug of coffee because when I'm sitting down to read, that is kind of the first thing I gravitate toward. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

And I am a mood reader.  We've had this discussion right here. 

Nicole:

You are a mood reader, yeah.

Meghan:

It's kind of like what I'm feeling at the moment. And coffee can be iced, coffee can be hot, you can add cream, you can add sugar, you can make it into a cocktail. I feel like that's it. It's versatile. And, your beverage? 

Nicole:

The drink that I feel best represents my reading taste would probably be a spicy margarita. 

Meghan:

Ooh, okay. 

Nicole:

Because I like my book spicy. 

Meghan:

She does. She does. See, for me, I would go for that because it's got the salt on the rim. 

Nicole:

Yeah, that too. I love it salty.  I like it spicy.

Meghan:

Like a salty, like a sea, this mermaid here. 

Nicole:

What cocktail do you make when you are stressed, Meghan? 

Meghan:

Anything quick and easy and bitter. Nickel almost spit out her…

Nicole:

Thanks. Thanks for that, Meghan. That was all I could do, not just her spit it back in my head. Oh god, girl.  Yeah, this is why we're best friends. 

Meghan:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that is the truth though. What do I make when I'm stressed? It is kind of what is within reach that I can pour into a glass with some ice. 

Nicole:

Uh-huh. 

Meghan:

I mean, if I had my druthers, it would be some form of gin and tonic because that is always top of my list. But I’m flexible. 

Nicole:

To be honest, typically when I'm stressed, I just drink a bottle of wine. The bottle is a serving. 

Meghan:

I was just about to say. 

Nicole:

Uh, but if we're talking strictly cocktails and not just alcohol in general, I will drink something either bourbon or whiskey with just ice and a little sploosh of water. And that's my stress or pain reliever moment. So yeah. What drink makes you instantly think of comfort? 

Meghan:

Aside from a coffee, we're going back to warm beverages though. I would say probably just a very basic like Lipton tea. 

Nicole:

Oh, yeah. 

Meghan:

That is so comforting. That with like a little piece of chocolate next to it.

Nicole:

I think a comforting drink for me.

Hot cocoa. 

Meghan:

Yeah. There's something about that warmth, right? 

NIcole:

It's gonna be a warm drink to be comforting, I feel like. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Your cocktail red flags. 

Meghan:

Cream based? 

Nicole:

I was gonna say the same thing. Dairy? 

Meghan:

Yeah. Cream based is problematic. 

Nicole:

You cannot make citrus and cream based. I learned that the hard way. 

Meghan:

Oh, that curdles so bad before it even hits your tongue. 

Nicole:

The night that I had lemon drop martinis and white Russians was the one of the worst mistakes of my life. 

Meghan:

I've had a bad martini night and uh a not so stellar white Russian night. So, cream-based.

Nicole:

Okay. Moving on to the next segment. The podcast journey.

Why did we start the podcast originally? 

Meghan:

Uh let's start with you. I s I have been answering these all first, but you are the origin of this podcast. So, you should start this.

Nicole:

Honestly, in a drunken moment, I was like, you know what would be fun if we read trashy romance novels and drank while we did it and then talked about it. And I was like, who's in it with me? Who wants to do it? But obviously, the only person I was really asking was you, so…

Meghan:

Which I appreciate. Yeah, you approached me with this idea, and I remember thinking, A. we would have a lot of fun. B. I don't read romance novels. So how is this gonna work?

Nicole:

And to be honest, I wasn't reading them either when I came up with this idea.

Meghan:

But I mean, clearly it worked. I just gave you the warning that I don't read these. So as long as you're okay with the fact that I am going to be garbage at this, we're good. 

Nicole:

I don't think you're garbage at all. 

Meghan:

I mean, we've shown up. Yeah. We've shown up every other week. 

Nicole:

We're thriving. 

Meghan:

One of the things you said very early on is what percentage of podcasts... 

Nicole:

Oh, God. 

Meghan:

…like it was an astounding statistic.

Nicole:

Astounding number of people who do not make it past four or six episodes.

Meghan:

You said you said most people don't even start. Like they get the idea. 

Nicole:

They like then if they do start, it's four to six episodes and then they're done. Mm-hmm. Yeah. 

Meghan:

So, I'm pretty proud of us because we recorded and then we kept recording. 

Nicole:

I mean, sometimes we also remember to press record. 

Meghan:

Most times. 

Nicole:

Most times. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Most times we do remember to press record. Yeah. And by the way, I'm gonna check right now. And we're still recording. 

Meghan:

Thank God. 

Nicole:

There's nothing worse. What's the biggest thing you've learned since launching the podcast? 

Meghan:

Oh boy. How quickly two weeks goes. 

Nicole:

Yes.  Oh God.

Meghan:

Really. Because within that two weeks, we have to get a book read, do our show notes, and have the previous episode edited. And when I say that, Nicole does most of the editing and I deal with the transcripts. That's fascinating. Also, how much AI has no idea which one is me, which one is you. 

Nicole:

Yeah, it can’t even get our names right after a year and a half. 

Meghan:

Yeah, no clue. The punctuation, sometimes just things that AI thinks that we're saying. But it that takes so long. Like sitting down and editing. 

Nicole:

Yeah. And I will tell you with the transcripts, when I initially started, I was… 

Nicole:

Yeah, you were listening to it. 

Meghan:

I was listening to it. It's actually harder for me to edit if I'm listening to it. So, I do my first pass just doing it by feel. And then if there's a spot that I can't figure out who said what, I just highlight it and then I listen to that session. So… 

Nicole:

Honestly, it's probably more efficient to do it that way. 

Meghan:

Yeah. Not that anybody needs to know any of that stuff, but that's truly it. Like how quickly two weeks goes, especially if you've got a book as long as freaking Laura by Bertrice Small, where you feel like you need three months to slog through it.

Nicole:

And there have been times we've had to postpone because we're both like, I'm just struggling to get through this book. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

Meghan:

Yeah.

Nicole:

Or life happens or whatever. The biggest thing, things I have to say, plural, that I learned since launching this podcast.

Meghan:

Dude, you have learned so much.  Like really.

Nicole:

The website, the web development. Uh, my brother-in-law, Steve, recently declared that I was a web developer. Extensive knowledge. 

Meghan:

It's true. The technical things that you have learned with dealing with all this equipment and dealing with um SEO and the software. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

You just recently had to move our web page from one host to the other. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

And that was just a flipping nightmare.

Nicole:

Yeah, but I learned a lot.

Meghan:

Yeah. So impressive.

Nicole:

So, the biggest thing I've learned is the tech and the behind-the-scenes stuff. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

And it they say that you're less likely to get Alzheimer's and old age issues and memory issues if you are constantly learning new things and engaging your brain.

And I have to say, I probably offset the Alzheimer's at least 10 years with this. 

Meghan:

I agree. I am so impressed with the stuff that you've been doing.

Nicole:

Oh God. And then I forget everyday things and the names of authors and characters.

Meghan:

Whatever. 

Nicole:

My brain can only hold so much. Favorite thing about working together. 

Meghan:

Oh boy. I mean, just the fact that we get to talk. Because we don't live in the same state anymore. 

Nicole:

Right. 

Meghan:

We haven't lived in the same city in decades. Right. It's been a long time. It's been a while. Because your child is now a teacher and getting married, and your child wasn't even born when you had moved.  So…

Nicole:

You knew me when I was pregnant.

Meghan:

Oh, yeah. And before. 

Nicole:

And before.  Yeah.

Meghan:

So, I think it's just the fact that we even get to work together. 

Nicole:

Yes. 

Meghan:

Nicole and I were put together on a project back in college when I thought she was frightening. A lot of that was just because she knew exactly what she was doing and she came across very confident. 

Nicole:

And I don’t like to fuck around.  I just wanna get shit done and move on with my life.

Meghan:

And I had no idea what I was doing. Many of you had already had like internships and were like in the program. And I was like brand new, no effing clue. 

Nicole:

Yeah, I had already been working at newspapers and TV stations. 

Meghan:

Yeah. So, I'm just a wide-eyed idiot, and I'm paired up with Nicole who knows what she's doing. And if she was just a frightening force of nature.  We got into this project. I remember her showing up with…

Nicole:

It was for mass media ethics. 

Meghan:

And she showed up with props. 

Nicole:

I have to have props. 

Meghan:

Yeah. For this, you know, presentation we had to do. I just remember thinking she shows up with her props and she's all like ready. I'm like, just the bitch. Who is this? 

Nicole:

You we got a good grade on that project though. 

Meghan:

I'm sure it was the props. We're also both very well spoken and knew what we were talking about. Um, but then after that, we were, you know, together in classes for a program, forced to work together in multiple ways. And eventually it was like, oh, she's not scary. She's confident. And uh not getting to be around that very frequently in the last couple decades.  It's nice to come back into like the presence of this confident woman who is forging ahead and knows what she's doing and brings all the props. 

Nicole:

All the props. I brought props for the Minotaur milking. 

Meghan:

I brought a prop today, you guys, and then we decided not to video.

Nicole:

Oh, you brought your Mothman. 

Meghan:

I did. I brought my Mothman.

I came prepared. I was gonna impress Nicole with my Mothman.

Nicole:

With your prop. 

Meghan:

I brought a prop. 

Nicole:

My favorite thing about working together, honestly, is the laughs because you always ground me and you always make me laugh. I don't think I need to say any more on that. 

Meghan:

Cheers.

Love you.

Nicole:

Love you too.

Meghan:

Guys, I think we succeeded in getting Nicole maybe the drunkest she's been on a podcast. 

Nicole:

No, not even close. Anyway, moving on. Hardest part of running a fucking book podcast. 

Meghan:

Did I already mention how quickly two weeks goes? 

Nicole:

Yes. 

Meghan:

That would be it, like how quickly two weeks goes. And you and I, our brains work differently, and you are very, very meticulous and very on top of things. And it is sometimes hard for me to keep up with that. And so, I feel like I'm always running triage on making sure I've done the biggest band-aids that need to be applied so that I don't bleed to death on my way to the uh the next one. 

Nicole:

Oh god. 

Meghan:

Yeah, well, in in not in a bad way, just more like I gotta get there because Nicole needs me. Like, you know, we're partners in Nom and I'm gonna carry you out.

Nicole:

Okay. That's an analogy. 

Meghan:

But I'm just saying, I might have lost a few body parts on the way, but I'm gonna carry you out. 

Nicole:

Uh, hardest part of running a book podcast, I think is twofold for me.

The reading of the books sometimes is a joint and tree, and sometimes I'm like, dear fucking God.

Meghan:

Yeah.

Nicole:
 And then the other hard part is all the behind-the-scenes stuff is not just reading and drinking, it's typing up show notes, it's marketing, it's putting all the things on the Pinterest and the Insta and the Tic Tacs and all the fucking things.

And it's a lot sometimes. 

Meghan:

It not sometimes. It is always a lot. It's just that you also juggle a lot of other things. Well, that's just like sometimes. 

Nicole:

Oh, of course. 

Meghan:

Yeah, I mean that is that is just who you are. 

Meghan:

But I'm saying sometimes other parts you're juggling take more attention, and so it's hard to focus on it. So yeah. 

Nicole:

For sure, for sure. One thing you want new listeners to know from the start. 

Meghan:

From the start. This is all in fun, and we hope that you will have a good time listening to us and know that we are happy you're here. We want this to be an inclusive place for everybody, and that is something that we are working on every single show. And if you have any suggestions, we like to think that we're approachable people, and we would love to hear from you. So that is what I would say is all are welcome. And please stick around because we love you. 

Nicole:

Yeah.

I will totally piggyback off of that. I definitely would want new listeners to know that we are approachable people and we want to hear from you. We want that interaction. We love the interaction with listeners. We want you to comment, I mean, within reason. Don't be a jerk.

Meghan:

I mean, but sometimes I'm a jerk and that's the problem. Yeah.

Nicole:

But we want to hear from you. Don't be afraid to comment. Don't be afraid to send us messages or books or ideas. 

Meghan:

Suggestions! 

Nicole:

Suggestions. We're here.

Meghan:

Because I'm sure that there are authors that I would absolutely love and I just haven't discovered yet. So, please let us know if there is somebody that you feel like we're missing, or that based on the things we've been raving about, you're like, oh, you would absolutely enjoy this this book, this author. No, yeah. Just talk to us.

Nicole: 

Okay.

Segment six. Oh god. It keeps going. We're on we're on the home stretch. Personal quick-fire round. So, these are gonna be like rapid fire. 

Meghan:

Oh, I'm not good with these. I don't think like that. Okay. 

Nicole:

Okay. So, I'm gonna ask you the list of questions. And it's just rapid-fire response. 

Meghan:

Guys, really, I don't do well with this. Okay.

Nicole:

Sunrise or sunset reader.

Meghan:

Sunset.

Nicole:

Annotates or refuses to write in books.

Meghan:

I destroy that. 

Nicole:

Kindle or physical copy. 

Meghan:

Physical. 

Nicol:

Slow burn or instalust. 

Meghan: Slow burn. Okay, these are I can do these.

Nicole:

Audio or ebook?

Meghan:

Ugh. Audio. 

Nicole:

All-time favorite book boyfriend slash girlfriend. 

Meghan:

Oh. Oh. I mean Mr. Darcy and Elizabeth Bennett.

Nicole:

Yeah.

Meghan:

Yeah.

Nicole:

A trope you will never say no to.

Meghan:

An undine with a double schlong. Is that a trope? 

Nicole:

That is not what I thought you were gonna say, but it's not. 

Meghan:

Is that a trope? Does that count as a trope? 

Nicole:

Okay, sunrise or sunset reader for me. Uh, sunset, 100%. I am not a morning person. Annotates or refuses to write in books. I refuse to write in the fucking book. 

Meghan:

Her books are so pristine, you guys.

Nicole:

I get angry if I like absolutely fold the cover or a page over or something dense or scraped. I'm like, this poor book. 

Uh Kindle or physical copies.

I'm still a physical copy, girl. 

Slow burn or installust. Uh, give me the installust. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Please, right away now. Don't make me wait.

Just put the penis in her. Throw it in. 

Meghan:

Throw it in. 

Nicole:

Throw it in. Audio or ebook. I'm gonna say that's a hard one for me.

Yeah.

Uh uh it's even. It's even for me. Because it depends on the narrator and a variety of other factors. 

Meghan:

Yeah, true. 

Nicole:

All-time favorite book, boyfriend slash girlfriend. Oof, that is so tough. 

Meghan:

That’s was hard. That was a hard one. 

Nicole:

Um, okay. Right now, it's Hawkin, the Viking that I made up on Love and Spice app. I'll be I'll be meeting with him later. 

A trope you will never say no to.  Forced proximity.

Meghan:

Mmmhmm.

Nicole:

Segment seven, the spicy section.

All right. Your most controversial romance opinion. Your hot take. 

Megha:

There you go. There you go. My hot take. Boy. My hot take there doesn't have to be sex in the book for it to feel very sexy. 

Nicole:

Ooh.

That is a hot take.

Nicole:

Yeah.

I got nothing. Um, most controversial romance opinion. That women don't have to give up their freaking careers or what they're passionate about in life to be with a guy. And maybe if the guy needs that, then the guy's not worth it.

Meghan:

But is it controversial?

Nicole:

But we see that a lot.

Meghan:

We do see it a lot. I feel like it shouldn't be controversial. 

Nicole:

Oh, but it is. 

Meghan:

Eh.

Nicole:

The spiciest book you've ever willingly recommended to someone. 

Meghan:

Willingly recommended. I don't know because my spice level is not very spicy. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

So, I don't know that there's been aside from me telling everybody here they should read some Katee Robert, and Emma Hamm, like, you know, that that's kind of uh probably where I leave off. So, what is your spicy that you're…

Nicole: Gosh. You know, I'm on a group on Facebook. I can't think of the name of it.

It's like something with smut, smut readers or people who love smut or something like that. I'm always on there recommending books that I've read when somebody's like very specific. They'll be like, I'm looking for this. I'm looking for like a reverse harem, blah, blah, blah, blah. Or I'm looking for hockey, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so, I will recommend whatever I currently know of is the spiciest if that's what they're looking for. 

Which trope is secretly the filthiest.

Meghan:

Secretly the filthiest? Yeah. I mean, I'm still going for some underwater love here, just because I do feel like…

Nicole:

All the krakens and the undines. 

Meghan:

As soon as you pull out a double shlong…

Nicole:

What did you call it?  Tentacles and trauma?  

Meghan:

Yeah, tentacles and trauma. I feel like the more limbs you have…

Nicole:

…the more the more weird it gets? 

Meghan:

Yeah. The more grabby things become. You know, the more prehensile. 

Nicole:

There's a word. 

Meghan:

Science. It's great. Yeah. Are you gonna answer that one?

Nicole:

Yeah. I think honestly, enemies to lovers can get pretty filthy.

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicolee:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. May maybe that's why I kind of like it, but it typically doesn't get super dirty. It’s a lot of mind games.

Nicole:

But it can.

Meghan:

But there's a lot of mind games. 

Nicole:

Yeah. Like, yeah. 

Nicole:

Spice scale honesty. What's your personal too far? I think for both of us, it's Carolina Reaper. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Yeah. No thanks. 

Meghan:

At least what we personally consider the Carolina Reaper. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

And finally, segment eight, closing thoughts. What you hope listeners feel when they tune in. 

Meghan:

Some joy and some camaraderie. I want people to feel happy and welcomed. And, you know, I do a lot of listening to podcasts and YouTube videos to have in the background when I'm working because it feels nice, like I've got companions there, I've got coworkers, I've got people hanging out with me. And I want folks to feel like we can be their coworkers, their buddies, people to hang out with so that we can keep them company. So yeah, some joy and camaraderie, some community.

Nicole:

I would also love for them to feel happy, joyful, and you know, feeling the humor and the comedic relief.

Meghan:

Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully we give some of that.

Nicole:

Yeah. I mean, laugh at us, please. It's fine. 

Meghan:

Laugh at. Maybe laugh with. I would like to think that maybe we can…

Nicole:

Yeah. It’s fine, it’s fine.

Uh how your community has surprised you.

Meghan:

In general, everybody is so supportive. And that is why I say all the time that sometimes I feel like I come across overly mean or overly, I don't know, criticizer-y. That's not a word, but you know what I'm saying. 

Nicole:

Criticizery? 

Meghan:

Yeah. 

Nicole:

Well, we'll make it a word. 

Meghan:

It's a word tonight because it is such a supportive community. So, when I do find myself feeling like I'm hating on a book too hard, it makes me feel just wrong. Because I know that people are pouring their hearts into these books and they are trying. And I have not written a frickin' book, you guys. So, who the hell am I to tell you what is or is not good literature, right? Just because it annoys me doesn't mean shit.

Nicole:

I think we struggle a lot because we firmly believe in being honest and giving our honest opinion and not just like sugarcoating things and giving it the greenwash or whatever.

And so, we value giving our honest feedback. But yeah, sometimes we're like, ugh. 

Meghan:

Sometimes I feel like I have taken a step too far, especially in a community like this. 

Nicole:

Yes. 

Meghan:

That is full of really lovely people who in general just show up for each other and support each other and are there to just, you know, clap and make sure that their friends are, you know, seeing positive. 

Nicole:

Yeah. And just because maybe a certain genre isn't my favorite or isn't your favorite, I still appreciate and respect that it's gonna be somebody else's favorite.  And I love that in the romance community, everybody's like, eh, that's not really my jam, but like I can recommend you some things or an author where they really loyally follow their authors and support them online and are constantly offering accolades and high fives and all the things. And that you go to these romance events, and we went to our first couple of events this September. It was amazing how many people turned out.

Meghan:

Yes.

Nicole:

Absolutely amazing. 

Meghan:

And again, all very positive and supportive of each other. And it's a very wide-ranging community. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

And I love that. And that is something I am really looking forward to this next year. Is I do think that I have put some books in my TBR for this upcoming year that are starting to get more diverse. Now that I'm finding new authors and finding new little niches in in the genre in general, I've been able to find a much bigger berth of topics and heroes and heroines. And so, I'm very excited about that to be a little bit more inclusive, even than we've been able to be before. 

Nicole:

What do you want this podcast to grow into? I would like again, going back to community, I really would like to see an interconnected community here. Something where when I say, guys, I'm looking for a recommendation that I'm almost inundated with too many things for me to get through. Because I just know that there's so much out there and we are able to offer that to each other. So, I would really like to see that community grow and that communication back and forth just, you know, really blossom. And for you. 

Nicole:

My dream still ultimately is to do a podcast and have people reenact the stories. Yes

Meghan:

Yeah. Okay. Kind of like drunk history. Kind of like a drunk history, Elena. My sister has said that she really would appreciate some more drunk history vibes. 

Nicole:

I do have some Wisconsin acting friends lined up for the day that we can make that happen. 

Meghan:

Just little snippets of what we're doing.

Nicole:

I think it'd be hilarious.

Meghan:

Yeah. I love that idea.

Nicole:

And also, I agree with you. I want to have more interconnection.

I want to see us traveling more, uh, potentially doing book retreats. 

Meghan:

I would love that idea. Guys, the sound of a cruise that sounds absolutely awful to me. Everything about it…

Nicole:

You don’t like cruises and I’m a huge cruise fan.

Meghan

It sounds disgusting and I hate the thought. Nicole is convinced that she can take me on a cruise that I will enjoy. And I think the only way that's gonna happen is that if it's some sort of like…

Nicole:

A romance book cruise?

Meghan:

…romance book retreat. So uh, you know, we'll see if I'm gonna be…

Nicole:

Yeah, but even like a little log cabin getaway with reading…

Meghan:

Oh, that I'm on board with. I'm just putting it out there that she is threatened to take me on a cruise. 

Nicole:

Threatened. 

Meghan:

And I'm only doing it if y'all come with. 

Nicole:

It's like, hey, let me treat you to a cruise. No that's real threatening, Meghan. 

Meghan:

It's a threat. So y'all better come with. That's all I'm saying.

Nicole:

Well, that wraps up the get to know us better. Uh, I think this was fun.

Like, these were questions that were very exploratory, Meghan. 

Meghan:

They were. I had no idea it was coming. I was shocked though. I thought for sure that you would have like great prepared answers. So, when you were just as like flabbergasted, …

Nicole:

I just spent all the time preparing the questions!

Meghan:

No, I know, but I thought for sure we'd go like when I was having a hard time, like, oh, Nicole's gonna have such a great answer for this one. And when you were just as stumped, I'm like, oh God, no, we're getting stumped on the same questions. That's pretty great, actually. 

Nicole:

I told you I was drunk when I made those questions last night. Remember questions. Bob helped me. I just typed. I don't remember what I put. 

Meghan:

Thank you, Bob. Husband, Bob. 

Nicole:

Thank you. My husband. Bob.

Meghan:

Bob. 

Nicole:

Bob. 

Meghan:

Bob, her husband. 

Nicole:

We have to make sure we say that because your sister, Caitlyn, was very sad that. 

Meghan:

She was. 

Nicole:

Yeah. 

Meghan:

She was confused. Who is your husband? 

Nicole:

Who's my husband? Bob.

All right, that is it for this episode of Romance on the Rocks podcast. Thank you so much for joining us. And now I will toss it over to Meghan, who pretty much has the end credits always memorized.

And I don't know how she does it. 

Meghan:

Thank you, guys, for tuning in today for Romance on the Rocks. Please like, subscribe, give us a follow. If you are a fellow romantic, bookish biddie like we are, please go ahead and find us on all the socials. Oh, all the socials. All the socials. Just know that your support means the world to us. And until next time, please stay safe and know that you are loved.