Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Navigating Parenthood and Partnership Together
Imagine embarking on a journey that fundamentally reshapes your notion of family. That's what my husband, Brad Harvin, and I, Rebecca Harvin, experienced when we decided to embrace foster care and adoption. Through raw and heartfelt exchanges, Brad opens up about the surprise and commitment he felt when I first shared my unwavering intention to foster and adopt. His spontaneous decision to join me on this path has deeply impacted our lives. Therapy has played a crucial role in navigating this transformation, as we unpack the challenges and growth it has brought to our relationship. Our story offers a candid peek into our partnership, touching on our mutual support and shared vision for creating a loving family and community.
Adopting and fostering are accompanied by emotional highs and lows, especially as we welcome new children into our lives. We unpack the excitement, uncertainty, and emotional burdens that come with managing trauma and maintaining a peaceful home environment. Brad and I bring to light how we handle these challenges differently yet strive to balance our roles as partners, supporting each other and our children. By sharing our personal experiences, we highlight the importance of emotional resilience, mutual understanding, and the complex dynamics that shape our family life.
Our journey would not be complete without the supportive community we've built around us, particularly for Brad as a dad and husband. Forming meaningful connections with other men in similar situations, like our friend Dave, has been vital. We discuss the comfort in sharing experiences and navigating the nuances of parenting within the foster and adoption context. Additionally, we explore the transition from foster care to adoption, reflecting on attachment, permanency, and the emotional intricacies of family dynamics. Through these honest conversations, we aim to foster a community where listeners feel connected, understood, and inspired to share their own experiences.
Thank you for joining us today. On Behind the Curtain, I'm your host, rebecca Harvin, and today's honest conversation is with none other than the love of my life, brad Harvin. Brad is, without a doubt, the stabilizing force in our family. He is a rock and as steady as they come. He has dedicated his life now to caring for children from hard places, and he does it with such care and such compassion. It's really quite a delight to be able to watch up close and personal. We have not talked about anything prior to this conversation, so everything that you get here is going to be as is. As it unfolds. We're going to ask each other questions that we've never actually asked before, and so I'm very thankful for this conversation because I got to know Brad in a new way. I hope you see what I see in this incredible guy. Here's my conversation.
Speaker 2:Hey, well, thank you for having me. Rebecca, number one, I'm so honored that you finally, invited me to the podcast.
Speaker 1:Please. It's season one.
Speaker 2:Oh no, but no, thank you, and I'm looking forward to chatting with you about foster care and adoption.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I hope you like it because I plan to have you on here quite a bit.
Speaker 2:Very good, that sounds like a good deal because.
Speaker 1:I plan to have you on here quite a bit. Very good, that sounds like a good deal. I think it's fair to say to our audience that an hour ago we were sitting in therapy Yep and that we didn't actually know if we were going to record this today or not, because we didn't know how therapy was going to go. And our last few sessions have been beneficial and Also rough, rough, rough to walk away from.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I mean, there's definitely was that concern about. You know how this one is going to end up, but we're going to play. I think we're. I think we're OK. I mean, who knows what's going to happen. There could be some tears that start flowing on the show.
Speaker 1:But yeah, we'll see how it goes so okay, I think that for our audience, like let's retrace a couple steps here, okay and everybody always says like to me. They always ask and have you ever been asked this question first of all? I've never asked. And have you ever been asked this question First of all? I've never asked you this. Have you ever been asked? Did you always know you wanted to be in foster care? Adoption? Has any like stranger or family member, anybody like that, ever asked that question to you?
Speaker 2:No, not necessarily. I have been asked what are you thinking? I have been asked what are you thinking? Sure, why, why? When a young lady at my, where my mom is living in assisted living, I remember telling her about it and she just kept saying why, over and over again. Now I mean she is dealing with a little bit of a dementia, but I mean it's not the first time I've had that question proposed to me. Why are you guys?
Speaker 1:why did you guys do this.
Speaker 2:So, uh, but not necessarily um, have I ever thought about it?
Speaker 1:Okay, so that question comes to me a lot.
Speaker 2:Sure.
Speaker 1:Um, and then the followup question is what did your husband think about this? Like, how did Brad get on board? And so I always say like, oh well, brad knew, like this was a thing. We'd been dating for two weeks and, um, we were driving over a bridge here in town.
Speaker 1:And I said hey, there's this thing that you need to know about me I am going to foster and adopt kids, and so, like, if you don't want to do that or don't think that you can do that, then like we shouldn't really date. How was that for you? Like, if you can go back 15 years.
Speaker 2:Honestly, that was the first time it ever even crossed my mind that I would be doing something like this. Uh, so, but, yeah, drive, driving on that bridge, I mean, um, you know, not knowing that it was my future wife, uh, next to me, I mean I knew I had feelings, even a couple, you know, weeks into dating, but, um, I mean, it definitely made me feel like, you know, rebecca has something that she wants to achieve. That's something that she wants to, you know, give back and fostering and adopting adoption, you know, being on the table. You know how do I feel about that. Yeah, I mean, at the time, like I said, never crossed my mind, so I didn't really have necessarily one way or the other, but I mean, I knew that I really enjoyed being with her and her company and if this were to move on, it could be something that we could try and work on together.
Speaker 1:I think I've thought about that a lot in the past couple weeks.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Given our therapy sessions. Um, I've thought like, oh man, I remember, like I mean, we say this story a lot, like this is definitely one of our defining like stories in our relationship. But I'm like I he answered so quickly yes, without ever thinking about it. Yeah, it's true. Ever having any like. I had been thinking about it for years at that point and you just were like I was at about 30 seconds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, 30 seconds A 30 second answer.
Speaker 1:And then you said I have a deal breaker too. You can't ever eat gator meat. And I was like what? You can't ever eat gator meat. And I was like and to this day in our marriage I have not ever eaten I appreciate that I've never eaten gator meat um, so we get married, you, we have a couple kids.
Speaker 1:There's a moment where you say to me I could really see us like I would be okay if we had a third, and I am like I freak out on you because I never planned to have two. I'm so thankful that we did but I never planned to have two. And is that when you realized? Like when did you know that I was serious about what I had said in the car that day?
Speaker 2:Oh, for me that's that, that's easy. It was, I want to say, like three months, three, four months after Zoe was born, we were sitting in a foster class. I don't know if it's called pride class back then or not, but we were in a in a foster class on a on a weekend, on a Saturday. I want to say it was an all day, uh, eight hour thing and uh, I mean just sitting in there and then hearing some of the stories about, uh, you know, I I guess uh hearing hearing stories about trauma. Uh, for the first time for me, for my ears, uh, my ears, hearing a little bit about the system. I mean, we went through the class. We didn't, I guess we didn't finish and get licensed. At that point we just thought it wasn't the right timing because with Zoe being so young and we wanted her to be able to talk if we were to bring other kids in. But I was like, okay, she's pretty serious now, because we were here four months after. I remember being around holidays or something like that.
Speaker 1:I remember being pregnant with Zoe and being at work and you coming up to my desk. Brad and I met at our um we worked together at a homeowner's insurance company and he came up to my desk and I was on the heart gallery here in Florida looking at kids that needed to be adopted and he was like Whoa, like you are pregnant with our firstborn and I was like yeah, but like the adoption takes a long time, so like we need to be in the thing and, uh, I think that that's like a great example of I am the gas and you are the brakes.
Speaker 1:We very much operate as gas and brakes together.
Speaker 2:I forget about that time, but yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1:I think I like, I think you were completely freaked out, like you were, like we don't even know how to be parents yet. What are you talking about? So? And I just was like man, I've checked off these lists, like I have wanted to do this since I was 16. And now, like I'm married and I'm going to have the like, we're going to have our kid.
Speaker 1:Cause you had said when we first got married, like I want to have one biological child. Like I knew I wanted one biological child. And you were, like we can do, let's do that first. Like let's Right. And we have friends who said, like let's adopt first, and then they knew, coming into marriage, that they wanted to adopt and they were like let's do that first and then we'll have kids later. If we have biological children and I certainly fall into that category of like I think I said to you like if you need your DNA replicated, I'm not the wife for you, I'm not the girl for you. Like which you know now, having two kids, like I still, I still am a very low like. I want to say this correctly Like it's not that I have a low maternal drive, it's that I don't feel the need for that to come from my body necessarily, and so I wanted to. I wanted to make sure that you didn't feel trapped.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:But then we get into it and it's like, oh, what did foster care feel like for you?
Speaker 2:Definitely a lot of work. There were times, some of the kids that came in, I retreated back to my freeze. I didn't know what to do. You know, when there's a kid, you know, rolling on the ground, um, you know screaming, possibly banging their head on the on a wall or something like that.
Speaker 1:Uh, when they run away from me, uh, when I'm big one for you, that's it's a huge one.
Speaker 2:Uh, just the the flight when I'm picking them up from daycare and they run into the woods or run behind the dumpster or something like that while I'm holding the other ones, uh, I feel I felt helpless. Um, not in just that moment with the. Uh, you know, the um eloping, I guess, or elopement learned that phrase today learned that phrase today Um.
Speaker 2:I was like, oh, that's what it's called, but uh, but yeah, just in general, I mean, yeah, I mean we, we had Zoe and Slade when we started doing this but just yeah, adding adding new, new faces that you know, we didn't know their past. We there, there was, you know, obviously no attachment, uh at the time. Uh, so, yeah, I felt pretty, pretty helpless. I mean, the pride classes or the foster classes were, were great and try to teach us everything, but uh, you know, when it came to uh, uh, the nitty gritty with it actually happening in the in the house, I felt pretty helpless and uh, certainly uh felt like I had to turn to you for, uh, you know some direction and uh, you know how, how to get through the day-to-day life.
Speaker 1:I would like to clarify that I don't think that the pride classes are very helpful, like the material, but we had great facilitators, we did yeah. And they would take the material and expand on it, and we had facilitators who had done foster care. They were really great and even then it's still not anything compared to life inside of your house, still not compared to someone opening the door.
Speaker 1:And here you go do you remember when our neighbor returned one of our kids? Yeah, I was in the back of the house. I was working like in this, like you know, really back area, and the kids were taking naps and so I was trying to get. So I was working like in this, like you know, really back area, and the kids were taking naps and so I was trying to get, I was trying to knock some work out and then the doorbell rang and it was our neighbor. That was like, uh, she was in my driveway.
Speaker 2:Like oh, my god I mean, it happened recently too in the new house. Um, one of them crawled under the fence and uh, yeah, he neighbor, uh came back and dropped him off and it was uh kind of comical cause I kind of knew the neighbor from years ago. You did, yeah, he was my brother's basketball coach at the school, at the school that he went to. Yeah, I was like are you a so-and-so?
Speaker 2:And yeah, told him my brother's name and everything and I was like all right, yeah, so I shared that one, that conversation with my brother as well. But, yeah, just that that experience. Yeah, that was. That was fairly, fairly recent.
Speaker 1:We have since fixed the fence.
Speaker 2:We have, we have. We're so handy, we're so handy, we're learning with all of the with all of the things.
Speaker 1:So I think I kind of want to like, I want to explore with you what it felt like, like you were saying, like you felt helpless. There's this dynamic between us where Faye, our first caseworker, brings kids to our home it's in the middle of May and it's this moment that I can feel as if it was yesterday and she, she brings these two kids and she kind of drops them off. It's chaos is all around there's. We have chocolate chip cookies, um, cooking like it's.
Speaker 1:Our house smells like chocolate chip cookies and Faye leaves and I'm standing in the dining room and I am looking around and I think to myself, no matter what happens, I'm a foster mom now. No matter what happens after this, like my, I could feel my identity change, I could feel myself step into this I mean truly the word like destiny, like this thing that I had always known about myself, that I was made to do and it was happening and it had and it was happening. So I there's a part of me that comes alive and doesn't feel helpless at all Like I, and I think I mean, I think it's fair to say that this causes some problems in our relationship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, let me. Let me try and go back. So the helpless part I guess kind of materializes like right after. But when, when we get a call and uh, hey, you know we've got a couple kids come in, know, we've got a couple kids coming, I mean you know whether they're, you know three, four, five and six to a 17 year old or a 13 year old, I mean I, I'm excited, I'm in the moment, I'm like okay, cool, you know a new, new. I mean like at the actual beginning I think I experienced what you experienced. As far as the, the excitement. I I guess what I was kind of talking about is, you know, minutes, hours later, when the trauma is happening, and I'm not used to seeing that or I've never you know, obviously never been around it. Maybe I didn't pay attention to class enough or whatever that's what you think yeah.
Speaker 2:I just get a little helpless then. But at the beginning, when I mean when our, when our sweet little kids are making beds and putting candy on pillows, I mean I'm, I'm excited about that as well. But yeah, it's just like kind of maybe the next step that uh when, when, when stuff you know starts happening. When stuff starts happening, I'm like, oh boy, I don't know what to do. Sometimes I'm getting better.
Speaker 1:You are for sure? Yeah, Seven years in.
Speaker 2:You've learned a lesson. It only takes seven years, guys, and I'm still not there, but yeah.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's fair to say that neither one of us are totally there. I think that that's fair to say that we both have things that we go to. We both have, like you know, I sometimes show up a little too much, sometimes I sometimes overpower a situation and whereas, like some you know, you are like, oh, I don't know what to do here and Rebecca will show up to this great extent and then welcome to our therapy sessions. But what I see in you so often, like as you're talking about, when you know Zoe and Slade are making beds and they're putting chocolate on beds, and we get a phone call and I say like, hey, we've got a five-year-old coming Um, what I see in you is this desire to be a good dad and and to stand in this gap and and to be defined as a good dad in that moment and for those kids and I can list so many examples where I've seen you do this you look like you're getting slightly emotional.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe, maybe.
Speaker 1:Where it's just like I see that come out for a stranger. Is this like you're in the backyard, you're playing catch with them and you know, really, we were just talking about one of our placements earlier today. Like you don't ever stop trying one of our placements earlier today, like you don't ever stop trying when I want to, like I feel like we ping pong in foster care, we've we ping ponged of when I would want to give up, you would be like, no, I could, we can do this another day or when you would want to give up.
Speaker 1:I would be like, okay, like, and one of us would be able to say let's keep putting the right, our right foot, in front of our left foot, and we did a really good job with that. We didn't do a good job in foster care and, to an extent, in adoption of like emotionally showing up for each other.
Speaker 2:That's true, absolutely.
Speaker 1:Yeah, true, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And I'm not saying this in a bad way here, I'm just saying this in like a I wonder if there's other marriages where the guy feels like, in order to be steady and solid for my wife, I can't have any emotions, this can't affect me the way that it is her, and so, as a way of protecting me, the kids, our marriage, tell me if I'm on the right track here or not. And just for the record, I want to say like to the audience listening. Brad and I have not talked about this ahead of time, like we came into this podcast blind and I've not asked him these questions that we that we're asking right now.
Speaker 1:So you're really getting this like kind of very curious conversation between the two of us. Like, tell me, tell me if that is, if that's accurate, like in order to be steady, because I can be wildly emotional. Tell me what you feel in those moments.
Speaker 2:It is to try and I guess for me it is to try and keep everything at peace, try to keep the house afloat. I try not to show too much. I tried not to show too much emotion at certain times For me personally I'm sure there's other guys out there or other women, you know, sometimes when you push those emotions down, they're going to come out and they burst a little little louder, a little more than before.
Speaker 2:So I definitely found myself doing that as well. But yeah, I guess, at the time I'm just trying to, my mentality is to kind of keep the peace and let's just kind of take it step by step. You know, let's have dinner, let's, you know, get our baths and get in our pajamas, and you know, tomorrow's going to be a new day, kind of thing, but yeah it's. I mean, I don't know if I want to call it a, you know, a mask or anything, but I was trying, you know, just trying to try, and trying to hold the family together in my hands. And it didn't always work out, I mean for sure. I mean there was, you know, certainly break points for everybody involved, but that that was certainly something I try to do and uh, what did you feel like the family was doing?
Speaker 1:like you just said, like I'm trying to hold the family together in my hands uh, I felt like the family was fracturing.
Speaker 2:I, I feel like, um and I'm not necessarily just Zoe and Slade, I mean, they've certainly voiced their opinion that they needed more time with us, but some of the kids that came in demanded more time, so it was really just trying to find that balance, but I felt like the family, our marriage, uh, at times, uh, what was being fractured, being being kind of chipped away. Um, sometimes more, sometimes the blows were heavier than others, but it always seemed like I was just trying to, uh, keep it all together the best I could other the best I could.
Speaker 1:That kind of makes me want to cry Just thinking about like the burden that that must feel like for you Of. It sounds like such a heavy burden to carry quietly.
Speaker 2:It was, but I should have asked for help too Now looking back welcome to therapy.
Speaker 2:I should have voiced more concerns. I think I was trying to I hate to use the word, but I was trying to protect you from some of the chaos of you know, there was enough going on in our house that you certainly were taken care of. As far as you know, with some of the kids emotional needs or whatever I would try and scoop up the other stuff and not have them go to you for for other things, and then one kid would turn into seven that.
Speaker 2:I'm like carrying please stay away from mom right now. She's dealing with so-and-so or she's got to fill out this, this form for this school, or kind of thing.
Speaker 1:I think it's fair to say, like I think, to describe the dynamic in our relationship.
Speaker 1:I take the harder kids and so sometimes our ratio is like I'm one to one with a kid and brad is five to one with the other kids, or like there have been and it's dinner time, and it's dinner time and homework folders need to be checked, and field trip slips need to be yeah, and like the one kid that I'm one to one with can take hours in the middle of like you know, and we all know this right Like in the middle of some kind of meltdown or emotional, just high need moment, I could be in a like in a secluded place at the house with that one kid, and sometimes sometimes it happens in like the living room, and then that makes your job even harder than I would imagine.
Speaker 1:Cause now you're trying to like make sure that the kids are not in the vicinity of whatever kind of like crazy is happening.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:And it's kind of like evolved into this Brad kind of does the survival tasks of the family and I do the emotional tasks of the family that's right um, and it's easy to do the survival tasks with one kid. Survival tasks meaning the feeding, the clothing, the laundry, the, the daily chores that keep a house moving and sorry, let me interrupt.
Speaker 2:And it's not that I don't want to get involved in the emotional part. There was a time I didn't. But like recently I mean as recent as last week I tried to get involved, tried to get in involved with a conversation going in and going on in her house. I tried twice, not once but twice and I was told to leave the room by the kid, by the eight-year-old.
Speaker 1:Yeah, not by me.
Speaker 2:You have to leave, you have to get out, okay.
Speaker 1:This is a private conversation. So, yeah, I'm like, all right then.
Speaker 2:So yeah, I mean I tried. You know, seven years ago I probably wouldn't have tried. But, I'm trying, so I interrupted Go ahead.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but you know good, yeah, but yeah, no. So, brad, so like, but it's different, like and this is one of the conversations that brad and I have a lot like doing the cooking and the cleaning and the laundry for a family of four is very different than doing the cooking and the cleaning and the laundry for a family of eight.
Speaker 2:Um, especially when and two dogs, one of them very needy she's like a kid. Yes.
Speaker 1:She is like one of our. She's one of the littles man, she's a dog. Hey guys, taking a quick break from our conversation to let you know that Behind the Curtain is sponsored by Haven Retreats. Haven is an organization that exists to create sustainability in foster care and adoption. Did you know that 50% of foster homes will close their license in the first year, but 90% will keep them open if they feel supported? At Haven, we support caregivers by offering therapeutic retreats and wraparound care. Right now, our retreats are held in Northeast Florida for moms, dads, couples and bio kids. If you're a foster or adoptive caregiver or you know somebody who is and would benefit from coming to one of these retreats, you can learn more about them by going to our website, wwwhavenretreatsincorg. That's Haven retreats with an S I-N-C dot O-R-G. We hope to hear from you soon.
Speaker 1:And now back to our conversation. Okay, so, as a dad, as a husband, your experience in all of this is so different from mine. I feel like, like it's no small secret that I have a best friend that we process all of this with. Like we became friends because of adoption. Our friendship is forged in the fires of this, and she's going to be a guest on the podcast. We're going to be talking about friendship, but you don't have that, I don't. We're getting that. You're getting that with our. We have a couple of friends you have. Okay, let me say this, let me say this the right way here it's taken you years to begin to build relationships where you have strong relationships with guys in the foster and adoptive community.
Speaker 2:Yeah, definitely. I mean there's certainly something I'm trying trying to work on, whether it's, you know, through some retreats or just through, you know, having some guys get together, uh, you know, to just hang out for a couple of hours at at a top golf event or something like that. Guys that that are in my uh circle, same, you know, same same life situation, um, and you know, just just hanging out with them. But but if something were to come up, uh, you know, letting, letting them know that I'm somebody they can turn to and hopefully, vice versa. I'm trying to build some of those relationships.
Speaker 2:I mean, recently just came back from a retreat and what we were talking about as far as the roles and uh, uh, it was kind of kind of hit and miss on on. You know, if, if they were in the same same situation as I was, but, uh, all those dads were, uh, very involved, had a lot to get off off their chest. I mean, I think that's very important for for men in in the foster and adoptive uh family to to have, you know, people to talk to, and it needs to be more than once a year, I mean, you know, just, you know, a quick cup of coffee in the morning or lunch, or you know even a, you know just a follow-up email, you know ask how somebody's doing. I think it certainly goes a long way. And yeah, I mean truthfully, I don't have, you know, that go-to person, but you know I'm working on it and it's also something I need to start sharing with you more as well, even though it's something.
Speaker 1:I feel like Dave is becoming that for you. I think yeah he has been.
Speaker 2:That took some time too. Yeah, it takes time, yeah you and Jen were the glue there for a while, but yeah, I definitely feel like Dave and I are progressing towards that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and what does that feel like for you? Like if you can think back to, you know, five years ago, when it's a relief.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's definitely, um, definitely a relief in the fact that some that I know somebody who's probably going through the same thing that I'm going through, probably changing the same amount of diapers that I am every single day and and hates it as much as as I do on some days. Uh, you know just a guy who, like me, sometimes dreads the weekend yeah because everybody's gonna be there.
Speaker 2:Everybody's like, oh yeah, weekend. I'm like, hey, especially if it's raining. I, I'm not looking forward to that kind of thing. Um, but I'm not the only. But knowing that date I mean I'm using Dave's exact words from from a retreat recently you know about, about the weekend so and I'd be like, yeah, I agree you know, cheers, uh, cheers to that.
Speaker 2:So, um, yeah, I mean it, it, it feels good to uh, you know, uh, build that relationship. I think it could be, you know, in this type of community, I think it's a relationship that can certainly be more fulfilling, more, more deep than you know, your. You know some high school relationships or or college guys, anything like that.
Speaker 1:Our group- texts can be off the chain sometimes but I know, like for me with Danielle and Jen, like I mean there's I'm naming two people, but there's more people than that in my life.
Speaker 1:But I just remember this one text I sent this year earlier this year in January, to Danielle and it was worded in such a way that she knew I was firing a shot across the bow of the ship, you know, and I was saying like this is my red flag alert, I'm not doing okay. And in a matter of seconds she had picked up the phone and called me and talked me through, like helped me process what was happening inside of our house, helped me process like my emotions and my feelings. Just kept asking questions and got me talking to where I could, I could really get to the bottom of how I was feeling and what I was feeling. And so and I have found that in in adoption and this might be different for you, I don't think it is, we've talked through some of these things but adoption is so different than foster care for me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So different.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, absolutely, yeah. There's, uh, yeah, because they're, they're coming home with you and they're still going to wake up each, each and every day. I mean they're um, are you? Are you talking about like just the place in your heart, or or just the act. Yeah, it's um.
Speaker 1:I didn't understand this in on the other side, like when we were in our adoption process with ethiopia and then foster.
Speaker 1:We were. We were doing this like support group at a local church here and there were people in the group that were like, oh, we're foster moms. And the people who were just adoption were like, oh, they think that they're so different because they're foster moms. It's like before you have kids and you know exactly how you're going to be a parent. And I was like it's not that different, it's not different at all. And then our adoption didn't happen and then foster care did and I was like, oh, foster care is tons of things, but like I don't know Things I felt better at. I feel better at foster care than adoption.
Speaker 2:Is it the attachment factor or the need for you know that attachment has to happen for adoption, or you need it to happen in order to, you know, have the family, or I mean there's that struggle.
Speaker 1:Like what it? What it ended up being and I worked on this in therapy with, like through EMDR and kind of just naming was like I was a Navy brat for the first chunk of my life and my family's like story in the Navy is a little bit different in that we moved so many times right Like fourth grade was my seventh elementary school, and so I know how to do like my attachment style in the words of foster care and adoption and attachment and all that stuff like, uh, my, my attachment style is geared towards foster care. I know how to have short-term relationships that you can wholly devote yourself to and then leave and lose, like I'm. I'm naturally inclined for that because of my experience as a Navy brat.
Speaker 1:Um, it is when my dad retired and we lived in green Cove, and again this is through like lots of therapy and and trying to get down to the bottom of naming it Um, permanency scares me, roots scare me. Lots of therapy and trying to get down to the bottom of naming it Permanency scares me, roots scare me, and so adoption scares me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I see that now. I mean I understand the correlation from the past.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so it's kind of like what do I do here? What if I mess this up? You know if, if it doesn't work out for you in second grade at the first school that you're at, well, no worries, you're going to be there for two months Like I'm going to get in second try. If I need new friends, I can go make new friends again, I understand.
Speaker 1:Right and so, and then you know, you like my, my dad retires, we stay in the same city. From fourth grade on I cycled through. I like made new friends every single year, Like I did not know how to do permanency because my entire life up to that point had been nomadic. And so nomadic stuff, I know how to do. Foster care is nomadic.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:So it didn't. It was like I, this is, this is second nature to me. Adoption permanency is not second nature to me. I mean, come on, like when you, when we met each other, I was sleeping on my friend's couch and and everything I owned fit into my car Like I turned.
Speaker 2:If you didn't have clothes the next day, you would run into Target or Walmart and pick out the outfit. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 1:I was like okay. I was like that's fine, I know how to solve this problem, right. But I just knew what to do with a nomadic life, yeah, right. And then I did the same thing. We get married, I, in one year, the span of one year, we I go from like being literally sleeping on my friend's couch to being married with a mortgage and two dogs and a baby on the way, and I, like postpartum depression hits like crazy.
Speaker 2:Right being stuck at home or Oof.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, thank you.
Speaker 2:Interesting yeah.
Speaker 1:Anyhow, all of that to say adoption is we've experienced adoption different. Yeah, Anyhow, all of that to say adoption is we've experienced adoption different. Yeah, and I'm just wondering if you wanted to like honestly, but you know carefully, because we're talking about our kids Say what that's been like for you as, specifically, a father and a husband.
Speaker 2:Well, um, there have certainly been highs and lows, Um, uh, as a, as a father, it's been rewarding seeing seeing them grow and develop, um, moving from moving. You know one of them we got to see, you know their first steps, which is great. The other three we haven't, um, but that's okay that. They've had other things that I've been able to, uh, uh, be a part of and and witness, and you know just those proud father moments, you know whether it's, you know a dance recital, or even just doing homework, building buildings, building something, something artistic, anything like that. But all in all, I mean it's had some hard times too. Just the attachment part, I think what you said, the permanency part, that's definitely in the back of my mind as well. I mean, one of the toughest decisions for me with the adoption is, you know, are they, are they going to get older or are they staying the same age? That was like it was like one of the biggest, biggest things for me. So, but they are getting older and, like I said, we're trying, trying to see them grow.
Speaker 2:But as far as the strain on the family and what and the strain on myself, I mean it's present, maybe not every day, some day. I mean some days are better than others, but it's certainly a pretty pretty close by and and close to that you know being being every day. I mean, you know, from the morning, from when everybody wakes up to the morning till till bedtime's, that sense that we're trying to cultivate a family but everything's not clicking. We just need to try and get to that point and I know that a lot of that's not on me, it's not on Rebecca. It's something that really the family has to that point and I know that a lot of that's not on me, it's not on Rebecca it's something that really the family has to work together and we need to uh continue to uh try and strive towards that goal.
Speaker 2:And all of us, you know, you know, just just listen to each other and, um, the the best we can find, you know, study the key or know the cues, uh, for for certain things, and I mean it's easy to say you just gotta, you know, try and put it into action. But no, the adoption transition is is more difficult. I mean, I think and it's weird, like I mean I love our church. Our church has been great and responsive and certainly helpful. The one thing that I have between foster and adoption, and I think this says a lot about my church and a lot of how I feel. So, for instance, um, our kids you know, our foster kids are there and I I fear that they're going to run up to the stage and start beating on the drum or something like that, if they're, if they're running around.
Speaker 2:If they're running around the place, I'm like, oh my gosh, they're going to knock over the symbols. Everybody's going to look at us and be like, oh, look at those foster kids. Um, that you know, brad and Rebecca have.
Speaker 1:Literally has never crossed my mind as something and I got to tell you guys.
Speaker 2:Like the Sunday after we adopted they were running around that stage and I was like I don't care if they do it because they're ours now and they're an extension of us.
Speaker 2:So I know that I feel like we can handle it. Everybody, everybody at the church I don't know if it's a perception thing, you know that, that you know dichotomy between those two, but I mean I I just like felt like, okay, you know, if they run up and knock over the not knock over the drum set, I'm okay with it because they're mine now. So really really really weird kind of different mindset, but it, but I do feel like it's just you know them, them being extension of the entire family and trying to get to that level that we can had that that family unit work together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's definitely still in process. Do you still feel like you're trying to hold a fractured family in your hands? It's called honest conversation.
Speaker 2:I know, yes, I do. At certain times I mean there's a lot there's. I mean a lot of it does go to Zoe and Slade. How so? Because I mean a lot of it does go to Zoe and Slade because I mean they're starting new adventures in their lives and I feel like I feel like I'm not there for for a lot of it. Um, I mean, whether it's, you know, starting high school, starting middle school, um, puberty, setting in boyfriend.
Speaker 2:He is not going to like that, Boyfriends girlfriends, which we're not there yet, but we're entering there.
Speaker 1:We're close.
Speaker 2:There's driving lessons to be had. I just feel like that's just going to extend the family even more and I think it's going to make it more difficult to keep it together To hold in one hand.
Speaker 1:To hold in one hand. Yeah, One of the unique dynamics of our family is that there's such a huge age gap between our older kids and our younger kids. You're kind of looking at it like are we struggling over here because they're younger or because they're adopted? We keep trying to figure it out. But some of our friends we have, I think, one of the beauties of our messy life and they kind of continuously remind us that easier doesn't mean better and that we're doing good hard work and it's like it feels so good, Like it feels for me at least, and and you can have it, say whatever but um, we kind of go to them. Often these friends like mentored us in our marriage for a season and now we just are um, deep, dear friends.
Speaker 1:Um, and she was saying like this is normal in families that have large age gaps and things that we don't know because we have, we didn't, we don't experience this outside of right foster care and adoption, and so we're like well, we don't know what's normal and what's not normal, we just know what's messy and what feels hard and what feels good, and, like you know when, when our oldest and our youngest are playing together, like it's just music to our ears.
Speaker 2:Like it's.
Speaker 1:It is the sweetest thing in the world to see Slade caring for the like, the younger kids. Um, and it's like okay, that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Like I, we'll. We'll catch each other's eye when something like that happens.
Speaker 1:And, oh my gosh, remember when we were at um yellowstone and slade was carrying tate back to the car, he like had him on his shoulders, he's giving a piggyback ride or something like that, and it was just like the sweetest, kindest gesture of an older brother and a younger brother, and like you sit in those moments and you're like, oh, that's it, this is, this is why we do this, this is why we do this, like this is this beautiful story that we get to live in. And then, you know, we get so um overwhelmed by the chaos of daily life, like by the number of times that I come out of the bathroom when I'm getting ready and I walk into the kitchen and I'm like, for the love of all, that is holy, it should not be this loud at seven o'clock in the morning, and it's like and I can just tune it out for like so long, but then I don't know I don't know that's a gift or a curse.
Speaker 1:So both probably yeah my, I cannot. I cannot tune it out unless I'm reading a book, and then I can tune it out, but anyhow, well, we have to go pick up kids from school, fair enough. So at the end of every episode we ask lightning questions. There's a lightning round of questions and I know one of the answers and I don't know the other two answers. I'm excited to ask you these questions.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:The first question is what is on your nightstand?
Speaker 2:A lamp and a CPAP machine and a picture of my mom and dad and aunt and uncle. I think, yeah, you do have some family pictures.
Speaker 1:Would you say that you have a clean nightstand as opposed to your significant other?
Speaker 2:I typically do, unless, uh slade has been in there for a long time and all his. Somehow all the trash ends up on my nightstand but, yes, to answer quickly because this is the lightning round. Yes, mine is cleaner.
Speaker 1:Does your wife's cleaning habits drive you crazy? That's just a bonus question and not Honest conversations yes. Is your wife messier than you are? Yes, one thousand percent, okay. Second question yes, one thousand percent, okay. Um second question what?
Speaker 2:podcast or books are you listening to or reading right now? Um, not a lot of books, uh, right now. Um, I did listen to a recent podcast on. I'm trying to remember. I want to say it was called Undateable, but it wasn't but it wasn't. It wasn't about that. It was more talking about the identity of a man and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:It wasn't the whole. I was able to sift through and find out what I wanted to learn. I think it was called Undateable, I don't know, but that was pretty interesting. That was last week. But I don't really listen to a lot of podcasts. I need to Lately in the car. I like silence, so silence has been my podcast for my well-being right now I like it.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then my final question, Brad Harvin, is what is bringing you life right now?
Speaker 2:At this moment, it's sharing this microphone with you. I'm overjoyed to be here with you and share this opportunity to talk with you, opportunity to talk with you, but I would say the joy is my wife, amina of 15 years. She's just absolutely amazing and my driving force, and that brings me joy.
Speaker 1:Well, now you're going to make me cry. Brett Harvin is definitely the sweeter of the two of us. That is 100% true. I really am crying, okay. Well, thanks, babe. Thanks for being on the show, thanks for bringing your honesty. I feel like I learned more about you today and, um, I'm glad to do this with you.
Speaker 2:I love it. Thank you for having me and look forward to next time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, come back.
Speaker 2:I will not go anywhere.
Speaker 1:Gosh, wasn't that such a great conversation. I hope that you enjoyed it as much as I did, and that's something that we talked about brought you hope. If you love this episode, share it with a friend. I want everybody to feel like they're not alone. I also want to remind you that it's okay if you disagree with something that we said today. If there were parts of this conversation that felt just a little too honest for you, that's fine. Our journeys aren't all the same. We're not going to respond to them the same. My hope for you is that today, in some way, whether large or small, that you feel seen and that you know that you're not walking this road alone. I love hearing from you, so leave us a comment and let's keep the conversation going. I'll talk to you soon.