Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Trials and Triumphs of Fostering the Whole Family
What does it mean to truly support a birth family while fostering? In this episode, we uncover the complexities with the insightful Jordan Whitmarsh, whose journey from teen mom to foster parent offers a fresh perspective on empathy and community support. Her candid stories about navigating these challenges without a safety net highlight the incredible strength needed to face such emotional landscapes. Witness how the bonds formed outside the traditional foster care circles become just as crucial in providing the understanding and compassion needed to thrive.
The pandemic brought unprecedented trials, but also unexpected roles for many. Jordan shares her experiences of becoming a foster parent without prior training, thrust into the whirlwind of caring for a newborn and toddler during a global lockdown. It's a story of resilience, balancing the demands of sudden parenthood with work-from-home life, and finding solace in community support. As the narrative unfolds, we explore how fostering not only impacts family dynamics but also fosters personal growth, culminating in the bittersweet joy of adoption.
Adopting a child is a journey filled with challenges and triumphs, especially when navigating the foster care system. We discuss the emotional rollercoaster of being chosen over biological family members, dealing with guardians ad litem, and the ultimate relief and freedom of finalizing an adoption. Through personal anecdotes and emotional reflections, this episode highlights the importance of stability and love in a child's life, punctuated by lighter moments of worship music and community strength. Join us as we celebrate the nuances of family life, the power of faith, and the joy found in everyday moments of connection.
Hey guys, thanks so much for joining us today. On the podcast, I'm your host, rebecca Harvin, and my guest today is Jordan Whitmarsh. Jordan is a friend of mine that I met through this process and as we talk, I want you guys to pay attention to that it is people who are not involved in the foster and adoptive world that helped Jordan on her journey, that connected her to the right people, that supported her family. You'll hear her say this time and time again through the podcast. I also want you to hear Jordan's heart for her daughter's biological mom. Jordan has such a tender heart there and I think it's so important as we walk this journey to remember that there is more than one family involved in foster care and adoption always. I loved recording this conversation with Jordan. She's one of my dear friends in this world and I hope that you enjoy it as much as I did. Thank you, jordan, for being with me today, and I just know, wherever this conversation goes, it's going to be a good one. Yeah, because that is how our conversations tend to be.
Speaker 1:I feel like we go deep Quickly, quickly, yeah, quickly, quickly. And I know I always walk away like, oh man, I feel so seen Like. From the first time that we were sitting in Starbucks it was like, oh, there's this kindred spirit.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree, I was thinking about the first time that we met at Starbucks and just thinking it was probably the first time in our foster care journey that like I'm like, oh, she gets it, like you got it, and it wasn't like I had to like over explain, or like you were like yeah, that's really hard, and it was like yeah, because you know, like you've been there and so it was like helpful for me. So I feel like we had a ton of friends who like came around us but never had fostered, and so they didn't understand the way that I felt like when I met with you, like understood the reality of like what we were walking through at the time.
Speaker 1:You have a ton of. I think half of your friends came to me at different parts before we met each other and they were like do you know Jordan? You need to know Jordan. Jordan needs to talk to you. Can you talk to Jordan? And I was like, who is Jordan?
Speaker 3:Same. I kept Taylor Taylor Day and I think Whitney Riley were both like every time I saw them, have you met Rebecca? And I was like I don't know who Rebecca is, like I have no idea. And then Taylor, one time I was with her and she was like told me, and then I think she connected via email and that's how did she?
Speaker 1:was it Whitney, it was one of them, and then also Antley yes, another one of these people that like constantly.
Speaker 3:Because they knew that I was drowning.
Speaker 1:Yes, that we were drowning.
Speaker 3:Yes, and they're like you need more support than what you have. Yes, I mean like we. I would say we are pretty connected in like the faith community in Jacksonville, just because the line of work that I do, but Jacksonville, just because the line of work that I do, but like it's different, Like there's people understand but they don't get it, I think, is what, like they don't understand the depth of what it means to like actually have kids in your house, Like like the difference between compassion and empathy, or sympathy and empathy.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and just like we're doing these hard things because we really love her and her mom and like we want her mom to get better. Like and we want her to thrive as her mom. And I don't think they understood like us helping, like because we did help birth mom for a while like get to things and our caseworker finally had to sit me down and be like you can't drive her to things, because you're enabling her to like she's got to be able to do all these things without you Like to be able to get her kid to appointments and all the things.
Speaker 3:Like I was picking her up to take her to like her birth mom, to like her counseling appointments and things like that, and they finally were like you can't do that because she's got to figure it out like birth moms, has got to figure out how to do this on her own. And it was. I think people didn't understand why we were willing to help like birth mom be successful.
Speaker 1:It makes sense, though, when, when I think about the rest of your life, like your work with Young Lives and your work, your whole life experience of knowing that it takes like some people don't have a village.
Speaker 3:I always say I think the way I always explain it is like the old saying. I feel like, oh, just pull up your bootstraps. They don't have boots to start with, so they don't have any straps to pull up.
Speaker 3:And so like I want to help be the boots so then they can help pull those up. And I think you know connection with my story and just you know I was a teen mom and my mom died right after my son was born and like our village stopped because the church disowned us. After I got pregnant as a teenager and then after my mom died, I say all the time like I needed a group like Young Lives for adults to come around me and love and care for me as I was a new mom.
Speaker 3:I had like no idea what I was doing and like my mom had just died and I had younger siblings, and so I always probably lean more towards compassion for single moms, specifically even single dads, because I've walked that road and I know how hard it is. That I mean one time when I was in my early twenties, like my roommate called DCF on me because I told her that she had to move, and like DCF came, logan was like three, like nothing happened. But like I like, no like what Are you kidding?
Speaker 3:No, I'm not. She told them all these lies and they came out, thankfully. It was like, but I'll never forget it, like I'm there in my mind, like I can see the caseworker in my kitchen Like and yeah, they checked all my cabinets. She was saying I wasn't like feeding him all these things and so. And yeah, they checked all my cabinets. She was saying I wasn't like feeding him all these things and so. And he was like two or three, I think that when this happened and I just remember how scared I was that they were going to take my kid, oh, and I just remember being like I don't have any adults around me that are going to champion for me and just knowing that, I like needed that.
Speaker 3:And I didn't have that until way when I got older and got back involved in church. But there was like no, there was no caring adults around us. After my mom died and after I had Logan, that like I know what it means to like step in, like I knew what I needed and so I'm like I need to step in and help mom.
Speaker 3:Like obviously kids are important too, but I'm like also like moms and dads, are important and like they don't usually have people in their corner that are going to like advocate and fight for them, and so I think I fall like somewhere in the middle because I was over probably helping our birth mom and enabling her and all the things, and so finally, caseworkers telling you to back off.
Speaker 1:You're probably a little bit excessive.
Speaker 3:Yes and so, and after like it really after we I stopped helping get her to things like, she just kind of like fell off the map yeah which makes sense, did you feel responsible?
Speaker 3:I don't know if I felt responsible. I think I was just really sad for her because I knew so. I know birth mom. So how my foster care journey started as I was thinking about being on this podcast, I told you earlier like my parents really installed and still like helping people and just having an open home, like we were always the home that had like people in and out and I didn't realize what it was called back then, but we took care of my cousin. My mom's sister just went through a bad time in her life and we had my cousin for like three or four years and so, like my parents were non-relative caregivers and I had no idea Like, and then we've had some refugees live with us before when I was younger and so my parents modeled out what it looked like to have open doors and so when I was a single mom, I lived with my nan because my grandfather had passed away and I was the only single one.
Speaker 3:So Logan and I moved in with her across the street from the ocean. I was like, yes, I'll move in with you. And then we had a 16 year old girl who was a part of our Young Lives program and she just needed a place to stay and there was no one to take her, and so my grandmother and I were like we'll take her. And so my foster care journey started before I got married and we had a 16-year-old girl live with us for about six months. I also had a 16-year-old boy in the house, oh yes, and it was crazy. So we had a plan. She wasn't allowed in his bathroom or in his room like it was in, and she had experienced way more life than my 16 year old had. And, um, and her situation was really just horrible and just really terrible.
Speaker 3:Um, and then about after six months we she had to go somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 3:And then when my husband and I got married, we knew that we wanted to foster but we were just kind of like we don't know when the right time is. And then so in 2020, we talked about it and starting the pride classes in 2020, and then we had just some family stuff happen in January, so we didn't do the pride classes in the spring of 2020. And in July we got a call and were asked if we could be on a case plan for a baby, like be a respite, like could we just be a backup? Like could like another foster family had had her non-relative caregiver, had her, and they were like could you just be on the plan for respite? Because I knew mom and she trusted me and just needed space, nothing at her doing, just her upbringing.
Speaker 3:And she, like, when I think about our daughter's birth mom, I get really sad a lot because I'm just like she did not have the tools and still doesn't have a lot of the tools because the way that she was raised and just different life circumstances, and I'm just like it's not her fault, Like she just didn't have the right tools in her to-ball. And so I contend to get really into my feelings about birth mom, because I just feel so deeply for her, because I just feel so deeply for her and just like I can't imagine the pain of, you know, losing a child, you know losing a child period, but then with DCF and you know it's just a lot, that's a lot of extra trauma for her.
Speaker 1:Yeah, lot, that's a lot of extra trauma for her. Like, yeah, I will never forget the day that our kids, um, we were at court for for tpr and, um, kind of spur of the moment, they asked us at court if we would be willing to do a last visit with the parents that day because they were in town and it was. It was, um, oh it. We'd already gone through just a really hard morning, but the parents at that time lived out of town and it would have like it was easier to do it that day and so so Brad and I said yes, and we, as long as we had, there was supervision and we went to the beach. We went out to the beach and it was fine, it was great. But then I had to watch them say goodbye and it broke me. Yeah, and I'm not their biological mom. And.
Speaker 1:I watched their mom hug them and I walked them to my car and I thought she does not know if she's ever going to see them again. Yeah, to my car, and I thought she does not know if she's ever going to see them again.
Speaker 3:And at the time, I couldn't tell her that she ever would see them again. Yeah, safety, I mean, there's so many factors.
Speaker 1:There's so many factors and there's still children in care Like they were not adopted. Now we get to choose, but at the time we didn't get to choose and I just remember thinking oh my God, I cannot fathom this happening to Zoe or Slade. I cannot fathom putting them in a car and watching them drive away and never knowing.
Speaker 3:If you'll see them again. I mean, it's essentially you're grieving someone who is alive. Yeah, which is I mean?
Speaker 1:It's a living death.
Speaker 3:Yeah, which is that's hard for our minds to comprehend. I feel like, yeah, so I love birth mom dearly and she did end up losing her rights and we have adopted. But getting to an adoption was, oh, quite the story. I mean, like I feel like Ella got placed in our care August of 2020. So we were just coming out of the pandemic. She was NICU, lived in the NICU for all of lockdown Ella did and so birth mom and her didn't have an attachment because of the NICU and lockdown and just transportation to get to the hospital to see your baby. You couldn't have people like all the things and so Ella came to us August of 2020. And how many months old was she? She was just about to be five months, but she was born almost three months early, so she was really only like two months old and I had a 15 month old and we this is just comical so we were just supposed to have her for the weekend and so we were like respite. So we're just supposed to have her through the weekend.
Speaker 3:My husband was like traveling for work at the time too, and so this is, you're going to love this. So I was supposed to pick her up on this Friday. Jason was coming home from a work trip. I was picking him up from the airport later in the afternoon. I was going to pick her up from the foster family and we're just going to have her till Sunday. Sure, like just to and so.
Speaker 3:But I got a call from the DCF caseworker at like 7am on that Friday morning, as I'm like getting our other daughter ready for school, and she was like hey, I got a call in the middle of the night from the other foster family. I got a call in the middle of the night from the other foster family. They cannot keep her anymore because all she does is cry and we don't have anywhere to put her. Could you guys keep her long term, indefinitely? Yes, like, can you guys keep her till question mark? We don't know Like how long, and so, like we didn't have to take any of the pride classes. So we didn't have any of that training, because you were essentially non-relative caregivers.
Speaker 1:Yes, that's what we were.
Speaker 3:I mean, what do you even say? Like, what do you even say? I said yes, without even talking to my husband, like he knew, like we were down to, like we were going to do the classes anyways, like, and I just like, okay, like.
Speaker 1:Remember how this anyways like, and I just like, okay, like, remember how we wanted to do foster care.
Speaker 3:Well, now we're gonna just jump right in. We just got fast-tracked, yeah, and so I was like, okay, sure, and I had two friends, um, who were like in this with me, um, margaret and Whitney, and so we had a group chat that was three moms and a baby, and so they were like they helped with her, because we like, when she first came, that's what you named the group chat.
Speaker 3:We still have the three moms three moms and a baby that's our group chat name still to this day because they helped so much like because she was a really hard baby and just cried a lot and so like we were able to get both of their houses cleared with DCF so she could go.
Speaker 3:But they can help with respite and that was like super helpful for us. But yes, so we picked up her on a Friday morning and then I went to the airport and picked up Jason and I have a picture. She came to us with a diaper bag with only a couple of diapers in it, I think, two white onesies. And so after the airport I have a picture of jason in the walmart parking lot and he is holding the baby and looking at me like what did what? Did we just say yes to like his facial expression. He's holding her and she's like so tiny and he's's like looking at me like what did? We just say yes to. What did we do?
Speaker 3:Yeah, like what did we say yes to? I mean, and I was still breastfeeding, like, I still had like, and we were still somewhat locked down oh, our preschool was shut down that year. Preschool was shut down that year. So, like, literally both kids at home, why I kind of worked from home because our work, like my job, still wasn't fully back Like it was.
Speaker 3:I have multiple pictures where I have like a baby seat and then a crazy toddler like on the table while I'm like doing a zoom call or something, because that's how chaotic it was. Like that we said yes and Jason at the time traveled for work a ton and it was crazy so that that was like our journey into foster care. So we which I'm like now I wish we would have had the pride classes, because I'm like there's probably some trauma have had the pride classes, cause I'm like there are probably some trauma informed care that we could have gotten out of that Um and I have some good trainings on trauma, but I'm like I really wish that like both Jason and I could have sat through those pride classes, cause I think they would have helped us.
Speaker 3:Maybe I don't know how good or great they are.
Speaker 1:That is wishful thinking, jordan. Well, so maybe I'm glad I didn't take it. I'm like you escaped?
Speaker 3:No, and they never made us do it, like I thought they were going to end up making us do it. Never once were we asked to take pride classes Like, or even said like hey, if you want to, you can, because they were on zoom at the time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And so like never we were never even offered like do you want to take pride?
Speaker 3:So you were essentially a non relative caregiver the entire time? Yes, no, the entire time, and so like which was unfortunate in some turns of events because, like yeah, I would call that very unfortunate. Yes, Because there were a lot of times, like you know, with foster care there is like some stipends, but that was all lower because we were non-relative caregivers, and just yeah, it was but it's.
Speaker 1:It's not even. It's not the stipend, even so much as it is the ability to advocate Well, it's not the stipend, even so much as it is the ability to advocate. Well, the ability to advocate for the child that's in your home. And hear me when I say that, even as a foster mom licensed, you can still be completely overlooked, as if this child is not living in your home 100% of the time and you are the most well informed about what is needed.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:You can still be passed over.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:But non relative caregivers are completely passed over.
Speaker 3:I mean, and we, like I, am for justice and avocation and so that's just who I am as a person. And so like I, that mama bear, like that, like bear of, like no, this is not going like, or we need these things, like one time we were at a court call and my caseworker wasn't getting the thing that I needed, and the judge asked me what do you need? And so I was like yes, I've been asking the caseworker for these things and I haven't gotten them. Yeah, and he was like okay, great, we'll get those for you.
Speaker 1:And like then it was like done in like the next two weeks, like it was pretty like I found through foster care that, if I could, it's a balance, it's a dance of not pissing off your caseworker. Yes, oh, yes, um and um, you know, making sure that everybody's tended to and nobody looks like the bad guy in court because the judge is going to see this case for 15 minutes. Yes, maybe, yeah, and it yeah.
Speaker 1:And it's going to determine the next 60 days or whatever. Yeah, so it took me a second to understand the dance, but there was one time I needed something for the kids and the judge didn't ask me. And they're supposed to ask, yeah, and I I raised my hand and I said excuse me, your honor.
Speaker 3:Excuse me, sir, this is your courtroom, excuse me your honor.
Speaker 1:You forgot to ask me a question and I have things that I need to say. I have a list for you, sir. I need X, y, z. And he was like, oh, yeah, I'll get that right. And I was like I just, and yeah, I'll get that right. And I was like I just there was another time that needed so many services, based off of something she had written down on her notebook. This was in April and she had written it down in November. And she was standing right beside me and I, like I'm watching this happen and you can imagine the fire that is burning inside of me.
Speaker 3:You're like about to pick up this notebook and throw it at you.
Speaker 1:She finished, I let her finish and I looked at her and I said, well, I'm the caregiver and they're living in my house and what you have on your notebook is from last November, so if you would like an updated information, things have changed you can ask me. Yeah, and she looked at me. Nobody this everybody hated this lawyer and was afraid of her in the court.
Speaker 3:She was just. I bet you, I know who you're talking about. We won't say her name, but I think I know who you're talking about and I was like I don't give a shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like you're talking about kids that are in my house.
Speaker 3:Well, in November, to April is a long time for kids, especially with like trauma and behavioral issues. Things change on the daily in my house.
Speaker 1:I feel like On the daily and in this particular case, they came to me in October. You're talking about the first court case after they came to me and your client didn't even show up, so I'm going to need you to sit down and shut your mouth. That's what I'm going to need, which is like, let's be clear, not legal advice that I'm putting out there into the world, but like yeah, and I feel like so many times my licensing supervisor would be like Rebecca, calm down, rebecca cut like she was great. But then I would be like I don't, I remember another time going like I don't, I don't have to play by those same rules that everybody else here does. I'm not.
Speaker 3:We're the ones opening our homes and allowing kids in them. You should be listening to everything that we have to say.
Speaker 1:Going back into your story, as a non-relative caregiver who has no voice whatsoever, you get into, yeah, the world's worst custody battle oh, yes, so.
Speaker 3:So we, ella, was placed with us august of 2020. Mom really tried to do her stuff and it just she kept failing and failing and then we didn't know who birth dad was, and so in july of we found out who birth dad was. Oh, I probably should say, for the first six months, we were in a safety plan. We were not even officially like a DCF removal until March of 2021. So we were in a safety plan for from August to March of 21. Hold on, okay. So, ma I, yes, we were in a safety plan because that's what DCF thought was best.
Speaker 1:The baby was removed 100% of the time from the home. Yes, and there is a loophole where they can say, oh, this isn't foster care, yes, this. There is a loophole where they can say, oh, this isn't foster care, yes, this isn't child removal. Because why? And oh, I can feel my blood boiling right now. Because it doesn't work for their numbers. No. Because they need their numbers to not look like their children out. I was just having this conversation with somebody the other day.
Speaker 3:I mean, we had to fight so hard because I'm like the safety plan is not working. Like and like with the safety plan like. We don't have access to like the resources that we have access to, no resources when we were like actually a foster care case. So, like the first six months, like my three moms and a baby group chat, like they probably both personally supported a lot of the baby items that we needed, because in a safety plan there wasn't a lot of like you can't go to foster closet.
Speaker 1:No, there wasn't a lot of resources you can't get.
Speaker 3:They're not on wick you can't go to get formula they're not, they have nothing yeah, we did, we'd. No, I don't think we ended up getting on wick until it's not automatic, until they're in foster care, and so I mean, that's so much formula yes, I fought so hard with the our like safety monitor and that was just a crazy time like, and then we finally got.
Speaker 3:She finally got like legit removed. I say because mom then never had her again like august 2020. Mom had not had her since july and so it made mom like she never left our home. So, August of 2020,. She never left our home for more than like a respite with my friends.
Speaker 1:When did she stop crying, oh gosh.
Speaker 3:She hasn't. She's almost, she'll be five in the spring and she has big emotions, but she like, so your ears are tired. Yeah, she cried a ton when she was a baby. Yeah, um, a ton, um. Was she born on drugs? No, we don't really know. Like it's not.
Speaker 1:I don't know if I should have even asked that question, Cause that's part of her story.
Speaker 3:But um, there was a lot of attachment because of being in the NICU and just mom not having a way to be there every day.
Speaker 1:Have you ever read the Out of Sync Child?
Speaker 3:No.
Speaker 1:Or the Connected Child.
Speaker 3:I've heard about the Connected Child, but haven't read it yet.
Speaker 1:Okay, so two books. The first one, the Out of Sync Child, I read with our very first foster placement, who ended up being diagnosed as autistic. But when she came, they came to me because of the younger sibling and who had a clear medical path. There was, there was. He came to me with pages of appointments, medical appointments, but then we had this 17 month old who was nonverbal which is not a big thing at 17 months but like it's a thing Didn't acknowledge sound, stemmed, all of the like, all of all there was.
Speaker 1:there was just things that were like something's not right and I didn't know enough about anything but very sensory oriented and I knew nothing. Um, and I was sitting in my licensing supervisor's office, I think, and they she was like, have you ever read this book, the Out of Sync Child? And I picked it up and it's one of the best books that I've ever read. The Connected Child also goes into this.
Speaker 1:it's about trust-based relational interventions and it talks about children from hard places is kind of how they word it in that book, and it is. It's a great book, honestly, and NICU babies end up in that book too, of what, how life-saving and life-giving the NICU is and the long-term effects of having to be in the NICU for a long time.
Speaker 3:And I mean, and then you add I mean it was she was born in April of 2020, so right in the midst of lockdown. Like. So hospitals were running differently, like they didn't have their volunteers that would come in and hold babies in the NICU. Parents couldn't come, and so she didn't get any.
Speaker 1:You're talking about a lot of attachment stuff right there.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a ton. And so her and I probably have an unhealthy attachment because she is super attached to me and I think you know, looking back, when I think about our journey and where we are today, that I think that I sometimes I'm like did I do this to her? Because I'm like she just is so attached to me and it is so hard sometimes. But when she was a baby, like I felt so guilty that she didn't have those, like she didn't have what my nephews got in the NICU, like their mom showing up every day and holding them and skin to skin and all those things.
Speaker 3:And then I started doing some research on in utero trauma and had no idea that was a thing until she was placed in our home. Because my caseworker brought it up and she was like I'm like, why is she acting like this? She's in this probably like a year in, Like why is she crying all the time and flailing and she just has really big emotions and flailing and she just has really big emotions and there was a lot of other things going on. But the caseworker was like I've started reading a book about in utero trauma and it's a thing, it's a thing, and it's a big thing.
Speaker 3:and so then I was able to kind of like switch my mindset of like I have no idea what she. I have a, I have a tiny glimpse of probably what she witnessed hearing in her mom's belly and I just can't think about that too much because it makes me like terrified of like what she actually like experienced, like experience.
Speaker 1:But it's also experiencing the mother's emotions. Yes, from what I like, the little bit that I have read about this is that and this is not like we're going to talk about this, but this is not to like scare any pregnant- person listening to this, Like never get stressed out because your baby will experience stress.
Speaker 3:I'm like my kids are a messed up thing, if that's the case, because both of my pregnancies were stressful, so they're already messed up before they even come out.
Speaker 1:So here we are. Why even try? No, it's about the level of cortisol that's released inside the mother's body in utero, and so they develop with this massive amount of cortisol in their system Makes so much sense though. And we know right now of what cortisol does to adults that experience too much of it yes. They are developing with cortisol.
Speaker 3:That's crazy.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's like a whole deep dive. When she said it to me I was like, oh, and I like to research stuff, and so I was like this is nuts. And so then we find out, going back to July 2021, well, finally, in March she was officially removed from DCF. Then we were officially on a case plan with mom, and so then they were like, oh, we need to find dad. So we weren't sure how easy it was going to be to find out who dad was, and so when we did find out who dad was, he didn't want anything to do with her, so her birth mom stopped doing visits and then we didn't do visits for a while. Then we found out who dad was, and so they wanted to give him a visit and we did a visit with his mom, first because he was still a minor, and then we did Birth dad was a minor. Birth dad was a minor. Birth mom was not a minor.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And so we ended up doing a couple visits with them and those were horrific. And so now I know our daughter like a lot of the trauma I think stems from all the foster care craft that we went through.
Speaker 3:So mom, dad ended up signing rights over. He didn't want anything to do with her. Mom ended up losing her rights and we ended up signing rights over. He didn't want anything to do with her, mom ended up losing her rights and we ended up. I'll never forget, in December of 2021, I was waiting on a phone call from my adoption specialist to let us know like hey, everything takes forever.
Speaker 3:I feel like in the foster care world like, hey, everything takes forever. I feel like in the foster care world, like court, all of that. And so we were waiting on a phone call for like hey, this is the adopted application appointment. This is like all these things. We hadn't signed the adoption applicant application yet, cause court was like the end of October. But to get everything finalized it was like taking forever. I was at a silent retreat for work and I had my phone on because I was expecting a call from the adoption specialist. And she called me and I was like, oh, like, you got a date for us. And she was like, actually, we've had a family member come forward, member come forward. And I just like, thankfully, my oldest son worked at the where I was, at the camp that I was at, and I remember it was a silent retreat, we weren't allowed to talk.
Speaker 3:I was so gut wrenched because we were like, oh, we're going to be adopting in the new year, like we're going to have our adoption day, all this is going to be over, and so we had a family member come forward. I remember going to my adult son and he I just I looked at him and I was sobbing and I said I just need a hug. He thought somebody died. And.
Speaker 3:I'm like nobody died and like, but I was so grateful, Like the Lord's kindness. Being there when I got the call was probably the most kindest thing that the Lord could have done for me. Like. I was there with my oldest son, who, him and I, are just kindred souls because we grew up together and I was in the presence of the Lord because I was at a silent retreat, and so, like I could fall apart, yep Could fall apart.
Speaker 1:And you could fall apart safely because you had the space to.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I had nothing pulling me cause I didn't have kids or family there with me.
Speaker 1:Like it was just you didn't have to keep it together for everybody.
Speaker 3:No Cause I didn't have to leave my room if I didn't want to. So, like I could. When I cry, when I ugly cry, it's like you can tell.
Speaker 1:And then people ask you like what's wrong, but like, but nobody could talk to you because they were on a silent retreat. Well, in the silent retreat, people.
Speaker 3:There are people who are always looking like that sometimes and no one can ask you what's going on and so it's like almost the gift that God was able to give me to not have, not talk to anyone like when I first found out Like because I think if I would have like had all these like influences, that might have like got me down in a deeper hole.
Speaker 3:And so we started doing that. So we had this family member. We were all, we were okay, foster. So we had this family member, we were all in, we were okay, foster folks, caseworker, adoption oh yeah, it's fine to let that family member come to your house and meet her, and so we did. And then it just then it wasn't safe anymore for us to let her come to her. The other, this family member. And so then we, for the next almost two years, we felt like the Lord was very clear that, um, we were not to pull our adoption application out of the picture, and the state, um, wasn't wanting us to pull our application out either. And so we stuck it out because we felt like the Lord was calling us to that, to fight for her, to advocate for her, and it was just not a great situation.
Speaker 1:The other family member? Had they had any previous contact with this? No?
Speaker 3:And so this family member didn't even know that she existed, that our girl existed, until there was some drama with her half-brother who was dad, and she found out that way that she, that he had a kid that he gave up, that was in care, and so then she started making all these phone calls to find out where her half niece was in care.
Speaker 1:So this is a tricky line, like let's be really generous with the line that exists.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:That there is evidence and there is research that says that it is better for children to be raised with biological family if at all possible.
Speaker 3:Yes, and I know that because my grandmother is adopted, and so my grandmother was adopted in 1936. We have no idea who her birth parents are or any of her birth relatives, and I've seen her struggle, like when she was in her 40s hired a private investigator, like all the records are sealed and I've seen that she's struggled with that. Who do I look?
Speaker 1:like yes, who does my laugh sound like what I'm artistic. Am I artistic because I take after my dad, my aunt, all of these questions, idea that there is a right time for us to foster and release to biological family members?
Speaker 3:And we were all in for like hey, we did not want to adopt, that was not on our radar at all.
Speaker 1:There is an other side of this line where it is not in the child's best interest to be raised in that biological family and it is deeply oppositional to what is good and right.
Speaker 3:Yes, yeah, and this was the case.
Speaker 1:That's where you found yourself, and then also you're going. That's where you found yourself and then also you're going. This child has been in my home since she was five months old, from the NICU. We are, in essence, the only family that she has ever known. Yeah, we have raised her as our own. We have tried we tried reunification with mom, but for her we are her family and what you are asking me to do is to sever attachment that I have fought tooth and nail for yeah and then not just sever attachment.
Speaker 1:So in your two years of waiting, fighting, hoping there's a push-pull, if we're really honest with the mom that says, how attached can I get, yeah, how much am I willing to let myself hurt here if this doesn't go, because courts go in favor of biological family members and it's terrifying.
Speaker 3:Yeah, Once we realized it wasn't great for us to do visits unsupervised, I went back to them. Oh well, this family member called DCF on us quite a few times. And that's so fun, and so that was it was crazy. When I think back to that time, I'm often like how did I make it through, how did we really make it through? And I'm like only with Jesus only with people who surrounded us, because we didn't really get involved with Haven until we were, like, way closer to adoption.
Speaker 1:Yeah Well, for the first, you and I, when you get started coming to retreats, you and I met somewhere in the middle of this custody battle.
Speaker 3:Like I think a year into the custody battle, it was a shit show. Like.
Speaker 1:I mean, we the paranoia, I just remember the paranoia of like because of all of the DCF reports, if she got a scratch on her.
Speaker 3:Oh, if she had fell at preschool, if she anything I had to like, even a little like a hangnail or something Like I took a picture of everything on her body and always sent it to the caseworker and been like she fell at school because and she like has some medical stuff and she trips all the time great, yeah, great, exactly great, great, awesome, yeah and so, but in it. So then we ended up having to only do visits once a month with this family member, and I'll never forget those visits because they were so traumatic, not for just our girl but for me too, I remember.
Speaker 1:I mean, they would have to rip her out of my arms and we did visits for two years and that was consistent over two years, the panic that your daughter would feel yes, going to the visit, yes, and you knowing you being completely powerless to stop that yeah, like it said, we didn't have a choice, we had to do that and like it.
Speaker 3:Yes, it was. I remember multiple times getting in my car after I would have to leave her. I mean, a couple of times they had to call me to say can you come in the visit and sit in here because she won't settle down? And so I would. I feel like I'm like okay, like, okay, god, here we are at another awkward intersect. Okay, yes, I can go in there, and then she would just sit on my lap the whole time but be calm.
Speaker 1:But then I like and I and I'm sure that the that, oh gosh, this doesn't even seem fair to say, but I have heard this story play out so many different times. I am going to go out on a limb and say that BioFam made it seem like you were the villain. Yeah, that she would only listen to you because you had to be telling her horrible things. Yes. About them.
Speaker 3:Yeah yeah, it was crazy. And so then we went in front of a review board and they, like, picked between us and the Bia family. They ended up, which is crazy because everyone says they will pick B a family.
Speaker 3:They will pick by a family. They will pick by a family. They picked us, yeah, which was like and I was set to speak at a weekend camp and we did our arc review in like february and it was like my first time speaking like at a weekend camp and I told my boss, I said we're going to get an answer, probably a week or two before weekend camp. I'm not going to be able to speak. If the answer was no, and like I had all prepared and the Lord was just very kind and I got to speak, then bio family has a right to appeal, just like we would have had the right to appeal. And so she appealed, and then it was we didn't ended up adopting until September of 2023. So we journeyed three years of a safety plan as a non-relative caregiver raising her, the entire raising.
Speaker 1:She never left her house one time, and so like our, of a safety plan as a non-relative caregiver.
Speaker 3:Raising her the entire time Raising. She never left our house one time. And so, like our caseworker and I can get on a whole tangent about guardian-at-light items, I really love them, but we didn't because we're non-relative caregivers. We just kind of thought we didn't get a good guardian-at-light item and so there was just like all these things can make all of the difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah when you have a person that's sole responsibility is to advocate for best interest of the child. Yeah, that's every kid needs that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so we have like a staff, a manager who was employed by guardian item because they kept trying to give us people, and then, like I think, we switched Guardian Militums I don't even know how many times it was which was disappointing, cause I know how important Guardian Militums are and just how well they can advocate for the child.
Speaker 3:We did have a decent caseworker and adoption specialist and they were great, but it just was really hard like and we did our. I was thinking when you talked about the beginning, about when you did your last visit with oh my gosh, their mom and dad, we had to do a last visit um with by this, by a family member, and I just remember like after that visit it almost felt like like this huge, like it was like freedom like that I hadn't had.
Speaker 3:It was a lot and she was not very nice to us and we. We were heavily under attack for the two years that we were in this process.
Speaker 1:Post adoption yeah, how do you? How do you feel now? You're a year and a half post adoption.
Speaker 3:We just celebrated a year of adoption.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so just a year, not even a year and a half.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so just a year, not even a year and a half. Yeah, um, bio mom still really important to me. Yeah, um, I, I, we don't know what relationships will look like with other bio families right now, um, mainly for safety reasons. Um, bio mom, her and I still have communication, but she um the ball's in her court. When she's ready, um, and she knows I will send her Texas sometimes and just hey, I want you to know that I'm thinking about you, I love you. Like um, I care deeply for her.
Speaker 3:Um, she didn't have boots, like we talked about earlier. She didn't have those boots and like, I know that she needs them and so I don't know what I I, I love her and I'm grateful for her every day. That she because, essentially, like, because we were non-relative caregivers, like she picked us, so like, what an honor. Like, there were several court documents in the ultimate reason why we I think the state said she should stay with us was because there was multiple records from bio mom saying I want my child to stay with the Whitmarshes, I want my baby with Miss Jordan, like, I want my baby to stay there there, and she, because I allowed her in my home and she saw like how I was caring for her child and saw the connection that her and our other daughter, or bio daughter, have. Like she said to me one time there they are sisters and they are like they they don't know, I like they're 14 months apart.
Speaker 3:Like they are two peas in a pod. Who are crazy? Most days. But they're sisters and like they were before the adoption happened. So I think post adoption we feel there's a lot of freedom. That like so, because we had a crazy. She fell in October after we adopted at school and had to get stitches and it was the biggest relief. Jason and I went to the ER together and we both looked at each other and said we don't have to call anyone. Yeah.
Speaker 3:We don't have to call and say we're at the ER, because she broke her leg one time and it was like this whole deal.
Speaker 1:Yeah, oh, I imagine.
Speaker 3:Yeah, this whole deal, and so yeah.
Speaker 1:The freedom of just being able to be mom and dad?
Speaker 3:Yes, and not have to be and not have people in and out of our house every three weeks or 21 days, whatever it is, whenever they want, Like just oh it's day 20 of the 21, whatever it is like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 20, I need to see you by tomorrow, so yeah, are you gonna be home at five and you're, like, I'm gonna be in the middle of making dinner for my family, yeah it's a great time I for the first, probably three years of foster care, maybe two years, probably two. For the first two years I was like my house was clean when the caseworker came, like everybody was in line, like everybody, like hey, caseworker's coming, like let's get it together.
Speaker 1:Let's get it together, children. And then after two years I was like I can't do it. So I am, if you just can show up whenever you're going to show up and you get to see the chaos as it is, as it happens in this house, but like, and then maybe you'll see some of the things that I've been telling you. Maybe I'll get some of those services I've been asking for you know that counseling, that play therapy I've been asking for.
Speaker 3:We need that. Yeah, now you see it. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Oh man, that's awesome. Okay, at the end um of every episode I have, I asked some lightning questions. So are you ready for lightning round? I think so. Yeah. First question what is on your nightstand?
Speaker 3:oh my gosh, right now, life is crazy for us. We're in a really hard season right now. Um so all my nightstone is a tony's box with the little characters, because someone got in my bed last night in the middle of the night and they bring that with them my Kindle and probably five water cups.
Speaker 1:I love that.
Speaker 3:Yeah, so, and I don't even know what is on my Kindle right now, because I haven't picked it up in a couple of days, so I don't even know what I'm reading. Okay, I don't. I'm not Because we're in a hard season. I, I don't. I'm not because we're in a hard season. I'm currently not reading any books that will educate or make me have to think more.
Speaker 1:Hopefully you're reading mindless fiction I am. Hopefully you're on a beach somewhere.
Speaker 3:Yes, and just like escaping into, like the mountains or the beach and the romance story or something.
Speaker 1:Yes, Something 100%, or the love story, or you're like reading it and you're like listen, listen, we're on page like. We're on page 120, like some action should have happened.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes, I'm like is there gonna be drama or no, it's gonna be happy and sweet and so yeah, I don't even know in a reading.
Speaker 1:But are you listening to any podcasts right now?
Speaker 3:so um, I do love to listen, um I love like murders or like, so I do listen to um like true crime true crime by kendall ray I love that one, but because of the really hard season we are in now, um, I am not allowing myself to really listen to anything but worship music okay because um I've got you need it I have to flood my brain with god's promises, because, if not, I I am spiraling, spiraling. But I have listened to yours too.
Speaker 3:And then there is another local one that's called Neighbors, and I do listen to that one too.
Speaker 1:But right now, it's all I do that. I do that same thing with worship music in hard seasons. In fact, it's like one of my tells. And if Zoe gets in the car and there's worship music playing, she's like what happened today? And I'm like nothing happened. She's like that's a lie. What happened today? And I'm like, okay, well, yeah, it was a rough day, like this is. Or if we're heading into something that needs me to be fully spiritually present, I will. I will just for a week, listen to worship music softly. Same.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Otherwise it's pretty much. Taylor Swift is what's in our house.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's either a true crime podcast or when the kids aren't in the car or it's worship music.
Speaker 1:Right now we're listening to Mr Popper's Penguins on audio book because I've realized that I can outsource having to read to my children for their reading lists and I was like, amazing, I can outsource this. Yes, that's amazing. I was listening, we were listening to Harry Potter, and then the teacher said that's not grade level, so it will only count for half of their reading although I do appreciate that you are reading with your kids and I was like well, audiobook is reading you're like we are reading.
Speaker 1:We're all listening we're listening, yeah, and he can't read anyway. So, um, I was looking for something else and mr popper's penguins, that's perfect, they love it, captain cook the penguin makes penguin sounds.
Speaker 3:That's why we love the Tony's box. If you don't have a Tony's box, it's like one of those square boxes.
Speaker 1:I've heard about them but I've heard that they're really expensive.
Speaker 3:They're getting cheaper, but our girls love them, like every night. It's a thing and it reads and sings and you can have all these things.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Maybe for Christmas Christmas. Maybe for Christmas that. Maybe for Christmas Christmas. It was maybe for Christmas. That was a really great idea.
Speaker 3:Well, and then, people can buy you the characters as Christmas presents, so like then your family members can get you the little characters that go on top.
Speaker 1:And then I just feel like my kids will ruin this.
Speaker 3:My kids have ruined some of them and they they're. We have one of the characters that has no head and but it still works. So there you go.
Speaker 1:Um, the characters. That has no head, and but it still works. So there you go. Um, okay, and then, um, my last question, and it's maybe hard, or maybe you know exactly what it is in this season is what is bringing you life right now.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I, um, what is bringing you life the Lord? We're just walking through some medical stuff with my grandmother and the lord has been speaking to me very loudly, which is not typical for me, and so I I have two prayer warriors that pray for me. You probably probably know them Cheryl Williams and Margaret Murray. Yeah, Um and so.
Speaker 3:I everybody needs to share Williams in their life, yes, and so I said I felt like the Lord said to me, if people ask you for help during the season, you say yes, and so we've been obedient and that, and so that's been giving me life, like I would never say yes to a lot of help, but we've had people in our house helping us, um, and so I was obedient to the Lord, saying yes, so that's been giving me life. And then the Lord said or I felt, told me that I was having a fresh fire through this and Cheryl just spoke a word over me and it's given me so much life. So I think the Lord is just doing something new in me and I don't know what that is and it's an incredibly hard season right now, but I'm clinging to, like the Lord said, fresh fire, fresh wind, and so I'm clinging to those that the Lord is meeting me every day with fresh fire and fresh wind.
Speaker 1:It's shocking to me. It's shocking to me how closely life and death live together. Yeah, Like life in all capital letters and death in whatever form right. Like in the hardest seasons of my life. Yeah, when I look back, there was so much life in the season. Yeah, and you want it to be one or the other? Yeah, you want it.
Speaker 3:I want it to be.
Speaker 1:I want it to be only good things and I can easily define a season yeah, like that. My last four years hardest four years of my adult life. So much life, yep, so much freedom, so much healing yeah, hardest that we've ever walked through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and that I mean that's. I feel like what we're walking through now is probably even harder than our foster care journey.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, For sure.
Speaker 3:And I've experienced a lot of death, but the Lord, like if we. He gave me a word the other day that said don't forget to look up, because if I don't look up and I'm too busy or too focused, hyper-focused on whatever, the issue or problem is that I'm missing the Lord in the small details. And if I don't glimpse the Lord in the small details, I'm going to miss it, because there is so many hard things going on and I need to be reminded that the Lord is present and working every day, all around us. I just need to look up to see it Like the beauty of the sky, the beauty of the tree, like the beauty of my kids getting along.
Speaker 3:Like and if I'm staring at my phone or if I'm doing whatever, like I'm going to miss it and in this season I can't like. I felt like the Lord said you can't miss those glimpses.
Speaker 1:Because they're so life giving yes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean they will bring life to me, like when I see them, and so it's bringing me life.
Speaker 1:I hope you get to laugh today. Thanks, yeah, thanks for being on the podcast.
Speaker 3:Jordan. This was fun.