Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Answering the Call
Lori Serber's journey into foster care is a testament to the power of calling and the evolution of family dynamics. Lori had always felt drawn to fostering, though her husband Larry needed time to embrace the idea. Eventually, their family of five welcomed the transformative experience, navigating the multifaceted challenges and joys that fostering brings. Together, we explore how this decision impacted their children, particularly their son Wade, and the importance of fostering normalcy and familiarity for children. This episode provides a heartfelt look at how a community's influence can help foster children thrive as valued members of their new families.
Fostering is not merely about providing a temporary home but about building bridges toward family reunification. Our conversation with Lori uncovers the realities, struggles, and understanding needed for this profound responsibility. We discuss the importance of setting clear expectations for prospective foster parents, emphasizing the goal of reunification whenever safely possible. Through personal anecdotes, we highlight the critical role foster parents play in supporting biological families. This section urges listeners to consider the emotional challenges and the necessity of entering fostering with a heart willing to grow and support the journey toward reunification.
Amidst the challenges of fostering, we explore how faith, community, and life's simple pleasures bring joy and support. Lori and I share stories of divine provision, where unexpected generosity, like a timely gift of a couch, has reminded us that we are never alone in our mission to nurture children. We also reflect on the beauty of simple joys, such as family gatherings, which can be easily overlooked amidst the demands of fostering. This episode is a tapestry of inspiration, offering listeners a glimpse into the profound love, resilience, and community that define the foster care experience.
Hey guys, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. I'm your host, rebecca Harvin, and my guest today is Lori Serber. Lori is a fellow foster mom and a former neighbor of mine, and I think you are going to absolutely love her. She is an excellent guide in how to love others selflessly in a beautiful, beautiful way. I hope you enjoy our conversation as much as we did recording it. Hi, lori, I'm so, so, so glad that you sent me a text and you were like, oh my God, you have a podcast. And then I said please come on it because, well, you're one of my favorite people in foster care. Same, you were a huge component of our foster care journey, so we met each other living two doors down.
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Moving in onto a campus with tons of chaos and tons of um moving pieces, we'll say. And then one day here comes Lori and Larry and your wagon stuff, the trailer that was like loaded up with this stuff. You guys moved in and brought so much life to the campus.
Speaker 2:It was a good good season of life. It was a good season of the hardest and also the most blessed, but yeah.
Speaker 1:So, um, back up for us a little bit. How did you and Larry, um how did you guys become, how did you decide that you wanted to become foster parents?
Speaker 2:Oh, um, well, for me, for sure. I I always knew, even like elementary school, high school, like I'm gonna definitely gonna foster and adopt one day. I just always felt that for my husband not so much, ever, ever. It was very, very long into our marriage. It was not on his radar at all.
Speaker 1:As is often the case, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean marriage before kids, when we had our kids, especially when we had our own kids. Nope, nope, so you know obviously how did you live with that?
Speaker 2:How did you balance that? I don't know. I just I always had like a peace about it, like I knew. I just felt like this was definitely something that God called was going to like put into my life. So I just kind of knew that it was going to happen. I didn't know when and even though Larry was like no at the time no, no, no I still just I didn't know when and even though Larry was like no at the time, no, no, no I still just I didn't push it. I just knew, you know God's timing, one day it's going to happen. I just because I felt it my whole life. So I don't know, it was just like so it didn't.
Speaker 1:it wasn't like there wasn't any stress in Larry, not in Larry saying no because you were like, okay, well, I don't need to manipulate this, I don't need to, like, try to force this to happen, I don't need anything, I don't need to do any of that. I know that this will happen one day, and so, when it does in the right timing, you'll be ready for it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I know, and it was funny how we kind of all like. And it was funny how we kind of all, because then, at the time when my husband, when God finally did change his heart and where he was open to it we had three kids at the time and our oldest two, our girls they were not so much open to it right away, wade, he was too little at the time to really even understand the idea of it. But, you know, years went by and we revisited it and still, you know, my husband was open to it. And then, plus two, like our life, you know, we've got three kids and we're doing life, doing life and, um, so the girls, I remember, you know, us having conversations, not like wasn't like an like epic moment in life I can, you know, like reflect on, but just having little conversations, um, through the years, cause it took a long time, um of them being open to it, like, yeah, let's do this, let's do this.
Speaker 2:But I remember, like Wade specifically was, he is no part of it. I mean it was no, absolutely not. I don't want more kids living with us, and so it was really probably, I don't know, I guess. Well, right before we, maybe 2016,.
Speaker 2:My brain doesn't retain yeah sure I'm I'm bad with details and facts, but um that he finally was like, yeah, I could do this, and so that was kind of the timing for us plus two. I think maybe it helped because, like the Bonsos, they were fostering. We have a lot of families at church that were fostering and so it wasn't like I guess he had some familiarity with it.
Speaker 1:He could see it in the world around him and it wasn't this like scary, big, scary monster anymore. It was like oh okay, my best friend has foster kids coming in and out of their house and so maybe this is fine yeah, so once god kind of put all of our hearts on the same
Speaker 2:page. We're're like, okay, what are we doing? Well, we're just just going to be obedient and see, so we'll just, let's take the classes, let's get licensed. And, um, I know, we, we did kind of like respite for friends. Um, uh, normalcy wasn't a thing in fostering, like cause we had friends who were licensed foster parents but we could never like babysit because we weren't licensed, you know. And so when normalcy happened which was amazing Game changer, oh, yeah.
Speaker 2:And for foster kids, like I just recently learned how impactful that was. Never even considered how that would affect their life.
Speaker 1:That they get to go to the, yeah, that they get to go to the same place, that that the bio kids in the house get to go to.
Speaker 2:Like just that that simple change, so significant and improving foster care which you you know those, those moments aren't often but definitely need to be celebrated just for that that that's a huge positive change in foster and our child welfare system. But, um, so we, they, they normalcy was a thing, so we were able to help, kind of you know, you know babysit, and you know so. Then, um, carlin Denae had, um, a placement that there were several challenges just with her, you know her kids and you know not every placement is a right fit. So, um, we offered to, you know, open our home and so we helped through that placement of theirs and it was definitely, it was, you know, challenging, but it was, yeah, confirmation.
Speaker 2:Like we've got to like and the more you dig into foster care and the need and all of that, it was like a no-brainer we need to sign up for classes right now. So we did, and then we missed two classes so we had to sign up again so that we could get licensed.
Speaker 1:You had to do Pride twice.
Speaker 2:Yes, oh my God, we had to do Pride twice, but it was, you know, it was okay.
Speaker 1:We did it, now we're done.
Speaker 2:Yay, but yeah, so at that time I don't even know what year it was, but at that time, like, the life expectancy of someone keeping their foster license was like two years, and if or or, yeah, 50% closed their license in the first year. Yeah, I was seeing like like I had read recently that it was like one year and I'm like how does that even happen?
Speaker 1:Cause placements, you know oh it happens because the placement is really hard, yeah, and the foster parent is like well, I didn't sign up for. I signed up for like difficult Right. I knew that this wasn't going to be easy street, but I didn't know that this was going to be excruciating. And then, for a variety of reasons and hear me when I say like I have no judgment here- Absolutely Me either.
Speaker 2:None. I have sense, and hear me when I say, like I have no judgment here. Absolutely me either. None. I have not, so much the kids, as it is the system and all of the, at least for our experiences, yes yeah, I think it can be a like.
Speaker 1:I think that there's a lot of factors that go into it where um, you know, sometimes it's like this is too hard on my biological children in the home, especially if you're especially for people whose biological children end up being the same age, or around the same age, as the foster kids that come in to the home. Um, that's one instant closure. Parents will say, like I can't I can't do this. I think it's like oh, this is causing a strain in my marriage. They'll choose their marriage over their foster license naturally like this, like every single part.
Speaker 1:I'm like, yeah, I get that, I get it, and 50% in the first year.
Speaker 2:Closing license that was. That was hard to read. That I'm like, I like yeah we can do better it's hard but I completely, I can see, I understand fully why, understand fully why, but just to have that, that statistic, and to know what it takes for these kids to reach permanency like that, just it's yeah.
Speaker 1:They're on different ends of the spectrum. Oh yeah, big time in order to reach permanency, and the pool of foster parents that are still available by the time that they need to reach permanency is, um, it can be so. I feel like it can just be so disheartening. I was on the phone with somebody the other day who was looking at a sibling set of four to adopt from the foster care system. These are kids like in the heart gallery that have and it's I. In my opinion, it's a great setup, like what that, what this person was talking about, and how they have their, their family dynamics, would make it a really um, a really good setup.
Speaker 1:And I, just the whole time I was on this phone call, I was thinking I don't think that she understands at all how hard and there's nothing that I can do to convey what's going, what is about to happen, and you, your first placement is one little girl and then your second placement is a sibling set of three right For us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, so we yes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, siblings set of four. Siblings set of four, so you can. What does it tell me, lori?
Speaker 2:What is it like? I think what you said is spot on, like truly, and and to say we went through pride twice, like pride I, we gotta have we gotta have the details. Okay, let's do it, check it off the list. But there is. There is nothing that I wouldn't. I shouldn't say nothing, but I think there's nothing.
Speaker 1:I think it's pretty fair to say I do.
Speaker 2:I feel like more transparency. Yeah, Like I don't necessarily I understand why they aren't upfront with all of the things, because it would be terrifying. It's an important topic because I feel like if you're trying to equip parents to foster, you have to set them up for success and that means telling them the scary stuff. You need to tell them the scary stuff If they can't handle it in pride then they can't handle it when it comes to their house.
Speaker 1:I can promise you, I can promise. It feels, different in person than it does in a living.
Speaker 1:It feels very different. Yes, and you have to be able to sit and not even like I mean. I remember this one time I was in a pride class. I was talking to the pride class and I had finished, kind of my part, and I said, okay, let's like role play, like let's come up with some scenarios. That happened and I just started talking through different things that had happened in my house and was like brainstorm you need to have a plan. When this happens, what are you going to do, not if this happens in your house?
Speaker 2:when, for sure, when because way it will, it will the, the, the details may vary a little bit, the characters sure, and setting, but it will happen.
Speaker 1:The time of day, the place, every. You can change all this. You will. I guarantee you have to go pick a child up from school. Yeah, promise I could. I could survey a hundred foster parents and and adoptive parents and been like have you ever had to go pick up your child from school for disruptive behavior, when a hundred percent of them will say yes, unless their child is in VP and like in daycare. But even then I think you still got a whole smattering of people that have to go pick up a two-year-old for disruptive behavior in daycare.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, then I think you still got a whole smattering of people that have to go pick up a two year old for disruptive behavior in daycare. Oh yeah, and I can't tell you how many times we were told that this is expected. Like you kids, parents will be working their case plan and you know, court ordered visitation will happen weekly. But we have we have drivers that will come and pick the kids up and take them to visitation and take them to therapy appointments and doctor's appointments. Never, one time, not once, did I have a transporter not that I.
Speaker 2:I don't know that I would utilize a transporter, but the thing I'm saying like. I're not that kind of like I I'm that kind of mom, to be clear the things that um it's, yeah, I, I feel like what is promised versus what.
Speaker 1:What really happens?
Speaker 2:like what you need to know, like just at least broaden the, the scope of like I don't know, just the transparency For me, I feel like also to addressing, like talk more about biological family.
Speaker 1:Listen, if we want to talk about something that you did really well, it is be a bridge, something that you did really well, it is be a bridge. That's the goal. That's the goal and that is the thing that we want people to understand, like when I'm talking to potential foster parents, when I'm talking to current foster parents. The goal is to reunify these children with their parents, if at all possible, if it is safe that is the goal.
Speaker 2:Yes, 100% of the time, absolutely.
Speaker 1:And the whole time they are in your house. That should be your goal as their mom. Yes, like that should be the place that they have in your heart. That should, every single bit of it. Yeah, you love them with your whole heart, but you know that you are actively working to get them back home to their parents, which means in a lot of different, a lot of different times. That means we have to help the parents.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:Our job is to also help the parents. It's to encourage them in their mothering, encourage them in their fathering, if at all possible Right now, this is going to be not possible.
Speaker 2:encourage them in their mothering, encourage them in their father if at all possible. Right now this is going to be not possible. We had a sibling set of two where if I saw the parents in a parking lot I probably would run them down with my vehicle. Like I wouldn't do that, but obviously I would feel the desire to do that based on their circumstances. But the desire to do that based on their circumstances, but you know, as a foster parent and we were our boundaries, like for family, like what is this Okay? Like, and we talked about fostering for reunification, like we were not fostering to adopt, we were fostering for reunification, unless in the process God changed our hearts, hearts or that. That was the plan, that was God's plan. But in our mind and what we all agreed as a family, we're fostering for reunification. Yeah, and I think that all fostering with the exception of the few that are egregious and rights are terminated immediately for whatever reason like it should be fostering for reunification.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I think that I.
Speaker 1:Until. Sorry, I'm going to interrupt for just a second Until the parents prove that they cannot do it, and in that case we move to permanency as quickly as possible, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, Absolutely, Absolutely. And this may be like a character thing because I also, like I say God kind of prepared our whole family. You know the time we were on his timeline. But also for me, I don't necessarily know that 10 years before we were licensed that I would have the same heart for fostering, for reunification.
Speaker 2:You know, I think, I don't know, that I would have the grace, or I don't, I don't know that I would have been equipped to, um, to let them go. Well, that for sure, like that, that is one thing that I will say, that I that was my stance when I was very young Like let me save all the kids you know from awful environment.
Speaker 1:Every single one of us. We have to work through our Jesus complex. Oh yeah, every single one of us.
Speaker 2:We are not the world's saviors?
Speaker 1:No, and we come in here with this like I'm going to go save the world one child at a time and very quickly. We find out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and what is so? I know not be judgmental and to like, like they say, and when you're getting licensed in pride class, that like for reunification, like for you to get licensed, we need your home and all of your background and all your requirements to be at an A plus for kids to be reunified, we need them home and all of your background and all your requirements to be at an A plus. For kids to be reunified, we need their parents to be at a D minus.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, and so when you're trying to rate different families, like we all have our mess, you know we all have our mess.
Speaker 2:But like where you would look into a family's home and think that is absolute, like that is absolute chaos. That's not safe, that's not, you know, and it's not that you're lowering your standards, it's that, um, it's. I don't, and I don't even want to use the culture as a word, but I just feel like like I was raised. I was a little country bumpkin. You know we I played in the woods and you know we had I. We didn't grow up in a, in a country club or we, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:I don't know the right word.
Speaker 1:I know what you're saying that there are social norms in different circles of life that do not necessarily match what I would consider a social norm, but it's not illegal and it's not necessarily unsafe. And it's not unsafe and it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not, it's not. And and it's like. It's this mental game, mental exercise that we have to play with ourselves as foster parents of, just because this is not the way that I would choose to raise my children, my child does not make it an unsafe or illegal way to raise a child 100%, and so if we can reunify, even though I wouldn't make some of these choices, that is still in the best interest of these children.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes, a million percent.
Speaker 1:A million percent.
Speaker 2:Because that's their family that biological tie Right.
Speaker 1:We had a placement that the number of times I had to tell myself it's not illegal to be poor, right Poverty and I will go to my grave on this one Poverty is not a reason that any person should lose the rights to have their children 100% agree.
Speaker 1:Poverty is not, that cannot be the issue. And so when we're talking about a situation where it's like, because poverty is such a limiting factor in their lives, they don't have the resources, they don't have the capability to take, they don't have transportation, or like whatever, and we've seen it all We've seen.
Speaker 1:we've seen all of this, both of us. Then it's like you and I would say, then it's my job as the parent, as the foster parent, to stand in the gap and to say how can I help you, how can I not pay your bills? Not make that leap, but how can I help get you the resources?
Speaker 2:that you need. Right, how can I point out to you that your caseworker is actually your caseworker? Like they aren't there to take your child. They are there to help you get them home and to get you the resources that you need.
Speaker 1:Yes, you need a bus pass, they can help with that. Let's use the resources at our disposal and we don't live in a perfect system. This is not saying that, like I am not saying like there's not a Pollyanna view. Neither one of us have a Pollyanna view of the system, the world that we live in. However we can look at them and say, poverty should never be a reason that you don't have your children, never.
Speaker 1:Now are there other aspects at play here. Sometimes Not always, sometimes not always, and you did such a beautiful job in the times when it was safe for the children to bridge a gap with the bio family and to bring them I mean over to your house that you would have bio mom come on a Friday night, or come like well, they're coming for dinner. There's no, they're coming for this holiday, they're coming for whatever it was holiday. They're coming for um, whatever it was I, you, just you did such a beautiful job in that in those moments, of You're sweet.
Speaker 2:You're sweet to say that. I get that. That was definitely not something that I had planned for and prior to, you know, we always said that we would kind of go case by case, family by family, and you did, yeah, and you know we definitely had our moments of like. You know our name, our address, our identity. You know what if things don't go well.
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 2:You know, you've run through the whole list of possibilities that. You know that you see on the big screen and in the movies and all of that, but there, for a reason for sure, Listen, I know.
Speaker 1:There's one family that my sister messaged, my sister texted me and she was like hey, I know the aunt of this kid, of these kids that you have I want to introduce, I want her to. Can she come over, can like whatever? She asked, I said a big fat, no, absolutely not, because I had been working in that particular family for with that particular family for like six months and the crazy was off the chart and I was like she is absolutely not allowed to know where.
Speaker 1:I live. She's not allowed to know all of these. This lady is now one of my like, close, dear friends, but the first time we definitely met in a Chick-fil-A Right.
Speaker 2:We definitely, and you do, you do need to like temper that situation for sure. First visits are definitely not in the home, you know. But yeah, you just yeah for sure. I will say, though, for us it made it easy to we look at like fostering the family, like it made it easy because we love these kids. We've loved every single child as if they are our own.
Speaker 1:And.
Speaker 2:I want to love them for the rest of their life. I want to be in there, I want to know what they're doing. I want to stay connected, we want to stay connected.
Speaker 1:And you do stay connected. Yeah, when you are saying I want to foster the whole family, you are like we don't need a system here to help us. Love you guys. We want to get these kiddos back into your home and we're not dropping our support. We're not dropping our if you'll have us, oh yeah, right, you always leave it in the it's.
Speaker 1:It is hard, it is when, when you have somebody's children in your home and then they're reunified, you become a symbol of one of the worst seasons of their life. And it's neither here nor there, it's not personal, and it's neither here nor there. It's not personal, right, like I completely understand it, but it's to get over that shame and you've managed to navigate that with bio families.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's a huge. It speaks huge for bio mom and dad. Truthfully, because that is I I've kind of try and like see life through their eyes. Um, as as often as I can in every situation and to think like I'm showing up at a birthday party that I was invited to and I would assume all of these people know that we are the people that had our children removed, like to step into that environment. Be willing to step into that environment takes a lot of courage. Um, at least in my mind.
Speaker 1:I.
Speaker 2:I think it takes a lot of courage um for, for you or for them. I just want to clarify for them.
Speaker 1:That's what I thought, that you or for them. I just want to clarify.
Speaker 2:For them. Yeah, that's what I thought that you were saying, but I just wanted to clarify that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for them, or even to come to church with us, like you know, to accept that invitation. And so I think that that's, I mean, it says a lot about your love for your, like you know, we've had several placements where, when I tell you, this mom loved her absolutely. We had two in particular that loved their children fierce. I mean, they absolutely loved their kids but they could not, could not break their addiction for nothing. But every time they saw their kids, they were engaged, they were present.
Speaker 2:They were loving and they were a good mom and um that is.
Speaker 1:It is that is so much harder than one of our, one of our like a clear cut case of here's this very clear abuse, abandonment, neglect, whatever reason they came into foster care. And it's so clear-cut and it's so ongoing and there's not law and and there's not an obvious love.
Speaker 1:Now. You and I would both say that parents love their kids. Their capacity to show the love is questionable sometimes, but we know that parents love their kids, even if they're not, even if they're not there. But then you see parents who have made decisions and have, like whatever, but the love, the connection.
Speaker 1:And there's this assumption, that I think that there's. An assumption Let me, let me soften that statement that if a child is in foster care, clearly their parent was horrible and it, and we have seen the opposite, the exact opposite of no, their parent has problems. Opposite, right of no, their parent has problems, but loving their kid is not one of them right and in fact, sometimes, sometimes, I want a lesson right and how.
Speaker 2:That's what I was talking about. I think how we kind of got. Is that in pride class. I think needs to be addressed. Like, as you get to know the parents, you learn a lot of like.
Speaker 2:Okay, so if we are comparing like she is she's mother of the year compared to how her mother parented her, or father or you know, whatever the situation is, it's like you know it's improvement. And then you hear even a little bit more about the grandmother's upbringing. You know, and, and the stories are hard, Like when you say kids from hard places. There's a million, trillion scenarios. You can fill that space with like for sure, and every, each and every one of us have our very own, our very own story, our very own normal or reality. And I think you have to in some way, as a, to become a foster parent. I think you have to in some way to become a foster parent. You have to be exposed to the different scenarios of family dynamic and while just use cussing for an example, because for some people that's a huge trigger, I'm not easily offended, so it's not. So if your three-year-old is you know, if that's your, is that the way you communicate that?
Speaker 1:to me that's not a deal breaker, and for some people it is, and so I think that we had a three-year-old who couldn't say anything else but F you Exactly, and I'm going to tell you, did I get to say what I think that she said? And she did? She repeated it for me and I was like, all right, not easily offended so like we're just gonna move. This is like day one or two of the placement like.
Speaker 2:I'm not trying to correct this right now right, but anyway, I mean I say I say all of that to say that to getting trained or prepared to be a foster parent, there is no planning or preparing Like you, just go ahead and consider yourself. It's on the job, training the end. It's on the job training, Like when you are licensed and you receive your first placement, like that is where your real training begins, and without Jesus I don't know how people can do it. I really don't. Yeah, the hard drops me to my knees.
Speaker 1:I like, truly, I um I know, I know that there are I think about. I think about this often actually, because, um, one of our things at haven is that it's open to everybody, and one of the reasons for that is because, while I have a community in my church, there are people who foster and adopt that do not go to church and don't want to go to church. That's not something that they're looking to add to in their lives, and communities can be really hard to build. It's not something that they're looking to add to in their lives and, um, communities really hard can be really hard to build.
Speaker 1:Um, you know, it's easier in a place where you can look at somebody and you can say well, james one 27 says that true religion is to the orphan and the widow. So buck up, like what are you? You don't have to foster, but you should be doing something, right? And I never speak that bluntly to anybody at my church, but but it's outside of a religious obligation, right? You're looking at like. I find it fascinating.
Speaker 2:Same, and I think that's why I say that Like I don't, yeah, I find it fascinating.
Speaker 1:Every ounce of why I do this is is tied into a religious reason for me.
Speaker 2:It is obedience. I mean, I feel like that. It's well, it's a feeling in my heart, it's a conviction like that. It's just something that I feel like God and we're all called in different ways, like we're not all called to welcome kids into our home.
Speaker 1:No, absolutely not.
Speaker 2:We may be called to be a support, drop off a meal, to be a financial support, like we're all called, in different ways, bringing children into the home. If with the heart there is this undescribable goodness Like I don't, there's no word for it because it's just. It is like worship, it's like a picture of heaven, it is seeing God and it lives in the middle of the heart it lives in.
Speaker 1:you do not get one without the other.
Speaker 2:I know.
Speaker 1:And it is wild to me. You know how I really feel Is. There are moments when it feels like this is what it feels like to live in on the front lines of the kingdom of heaven yeah I am watching the kingdom of heaven advance yeah it's a front row seat.
Speaker 1:It's a front row seat to what healing looks like. It's a front row seat to what sacrificial love looks like. It is a front row seat to peace that passes all understanding. It is a front row seat to peace that passes all understanding. It is a front row seat to the goodness of God and what he has for the kids that are in our home and this reminder that he loves them so well, just unbelievably more than I do all the time, and that he covers the gaps when I am reaching for love that I can't find.
Speaker 2:Yeah, oh yeah, I use front row too, like that, that's that's what I say also Actually, I say a lot now, working at Isaiah 117 house, like, if you, if it's it's hard to describe, like you just have to do it, like there's no, there's no way I could like describe a situation to convince you to open your home to a child, who who needs some love, who whose biological family needs some grace and need some help.
Speaker 2:You know, like I, like there's, there's no way that I could convince you, which is another reason why I feel like transparency during foster training is essential. Um, because it really is no way to convince anyone to do this of, uh, isaiah one 17 house, and one that I grossly underestimated as a foster parent is like that middle time, that middle time from removal from day, trauma, whatever, whatever was going on, and that moment before this child is brought to our home for placement, a stranger's home. If there was the slightest nudge in your spirit to like, I would love to foster, even if you say I would love to foster, but, and whatever the reason is that you cannot, or I would love to adopt, but if you cannot like or I would love to adopt, but if, if you had that I would love to like. That's all you. Then you just stop there like if the lord places a thought on your heart and it's genuine and it is.
Speaker 2:There's nothing to question like, because as soon as that, I mean we're told there is an enemy just waiting to stomp it out. Um, just your willingness. Your willingness, god will show up and provide all the things, um but oh, that's another aspect of I had.
Speaker 1:Let me tell you about this. I had Zoe and I were sitting on our couch that the Lord used a couple years ago to. It's a longer story than I really want to go into here, but Brad and I were looking at buying a house and we didn't know yet if we were adopting the children in our home or not and we walked into this house.
Speaker 1:It was perfect. It was exactly like we could have four people there or we could have eight people there, like it wasn't. It was perfect. And we went into this living room and I said, well, if we buy this house, then we'll need a big sectional here for this living room. But if we buy this house, we won't have any money for a sectional. So if we buy this house, we won't have any money for a sectional. So, um, so what we have we'll have to do. Um, and later that afternoon Brad's uncle texted him a picture of a sectional and he said um, hey, I'm getting rid of this. Do you need a couch? And I looked at Brad and I said I think we're buying a house.
Speaker 2:This is right. Okay, that's exactly what I would have thought too, yeah, so fast forward.
Speaker 1:We've had. We've lived in this house now for um three years. Three years, no, I know Same, it doesn't matter. Anyhow, we've lived in this house for a handful of years and um, this couch has seen its day. It, my kids have lived hard on this couch and um, and our kids are growing and all like for what?
Speaker 1:For a variety of different reasons, it, this couch was no longer like a functional couch for us. And Monday night a month ago, I, zoe and I, are sitting on this couch and I'm like God, I just we need a new couch and we have all of these other expenses and I was like I that come with having a family of eight, that come with like needs as they progress, that come with whatever. It doesn't matter. I just have this list, this huge, long list, and a couch is nowhere near on the top 20. And I say out loud, like, in order for us to get a couch that is going to fit our entire family, that is comfortable and will fit in this space, it's going to be thousands of dollars and I that's just not it and I was like she's like, so he goes, I know, but I really hope when we get a couch.
Speaker 1:We can get one of those couches that have like the bed part to it where it's like you have a gigantic piece that can turn into a bed and I was like that's a weird thing in my head. I'm thinking that's a weird thing. I'm thinking I just want a couch, like with like a chase section of it. You know, like I love to sit in that corner the very next. Okay, hold on one more piece. Zoe finishes talking. We finished dreaming about this couch and I look at this couch that we're sitting on and I'm like God, I am truly grateful for this couch. I have always been this, this.
Speaker 1:I walk into my living room and I see the Lord's provision and a and a reminder of the like, confirmation of the next step. And I'm going to stop complaining about this couch that has served its purpose. So you know, like when it's time. I know that when it's time for us to have a new couch, like what, it's not like a, it's not some big holy prayer.
Speaker 2:It's not something, anything.
Speaker 1:It's just a hey, I am a whiny brat and I am sorry that I've been a whiny brat. I am looking at this thing that you have given us and it is good and it is enough.
Speaker 1:And one day we'll have a different couch, but in the meantime, I'm going to stop complaining about the one that we have the very next day a text. Do you know anybody who needs a couch? It is a gigantic couch. You're going to see it tomorrow when you come over. It's a gigantic couch that has a chase. Lori. Guess what else it has? It has a pull-out bed.
Speaker 2:It's not the pull-out bed.
Speaker 1:It's the like. She didn't want a pull-out bed, like the bottom. She didn't want that, she wanted the ottoman that was as big as a bed. It's very specific what this child wanted.
Speaker 2:it's gigantic and god delivered the next day a million stories like that. I know, I mean a million.
Speaker 1:Set me, like literally me too, where it's like when you do the thing that you're supposed to be, doing the Lord. I'm going to say it whether you believe in him or not, like it's not a requirement for him. I don't think that could be bad theology, but vulnerable children are the heart of God.
Speaker 2:Vulnerable children.
Speaker 1:This is no small thing in the Bible. This is very clear. This is very clear From the beginning to the end. Vulnerable children carry the heartbeat of God with them and when you go and you move and you walk towards vulnerable children, there is never a time when you are left alone.
Speaker 2:Right right.
Speaker 1:Even if family leaves, even if friendships fall apart, you can feel very alone and still there will be provision. There will be. I think every one of our friends could tell stories like this.
Speaker 2:We could, oh, oh for a day, oh, yes, for days. Here's this thing that we needed in order to care for our children.
Speaker 1:Here's this like mama, can we have a bike rack, or can we have like whatever? And then here's a text from hey, do you guys need a bike rack, right? Yep, here you go like thank you so much. It's hey, we are gonna take in a four-year-old kid, and but we or let's back that up. We're gonna take in a four-year-old kid, and but we or let's back that up we're gonna take in a two-year-old. And you're like oh, I don't have a toddler bed.
Speaker 1:Here's a text yeah, I don't know. I just I'm getting rid of stuff. I've got a toddler bed, right?
Speaker 2:if you don't need more confirmation like it is and it I do think like I, like I am less in need of those moments, like that confirmation, because God has I am just. There is never a doubt, I never feel alone.
Speaker 1:It's not even that you need the confirmation, it's just more like you get to see for me, it's like you get to see that God is in it too. Oh yeah, like it's you and me together like doing this thing.
Speaker 1:It's not like I knew I was saying yes to a two-year-old, yeah, and like I could go to the. I mean, that actually did happen. I was like I don't even know if this actually happened. It did happen, but I could say yes to whatever and I can. I can go to target and Walmart and get what we need. Yeah, like that's fine, it's the, it's that it's that I'm here, I'm going to help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you can do that on your own, but guess what I'm? This is my, this is my reminder that you are not alone.
Speaker 1:You're not alone. Right, you're not alone. Somebody's going to call Absolutely. It's fantastic and that is there.
Speaker 2:I mean, that's there. You know, like you say, not everyone's called to open their home. But look at you, here you are, you're providing a toddler bed or you know whatever, like you're being prompted to give and you're following through, you're being prompted to give and you're following through.
Speaker 2:You're being obedient in that moment and it's a blessing and god uses it all together to just create the most beautiful things. Let me tell you. But you were saying you never feel alone. Yeah, before this, I mean I, I I have not, but I will. But I will say I guess, because I have been shown in so many ways For me, I look for God, those small moments, that's me looking for the good God things. And in the ugliest of scenarios I am looking for the good God things. And in the ugliest of scenarios, like I am looking for the good God things, I that wasn't me like 10 years ago like I'm like what if this happens? Like how am I going to fix this? How am I going to do?
Speaker 2:Like now, this came with foster care, this came with foster care and it is like when I tell you it, that is just a blessing. Like it is like when I tell you it, that is just a blessing, like my faith has grown in. I mean, there's no way to really describe it, but that is just because of God's provision through the most, the, the toughest times of my life. And I can say that, like when we, when we had to move off of campus, that that was the toughest part season of our life for for my whole family, and the ways that god provided. I mean, you say like with the couch, like that was our home, like at the time we were.
Speaker 2:We were moving, we had to buy a house in the height of the market. We had six foster children at the time and our two bio kids. Emma was at college. Um well, she was living on her own, but in college and, like the, the only search filter for homes was I need Lord, I just need a three bedroom. Like I just need a three bedroom or three bathroom, sorry, I just need a three bathroom.
Speaker 2:And we made offers on several homes and were out bid, I mean essentially you were finding a home, they would put it for sale on Friday and they would take all offers and then they would choose their offer by Sunday evening, Monday morning.
Speaker 1:That's literally how we sold Brad's mom's house. Yeah, that's literally how we sold it.
Speaker 2:So the home that we are in now was absolute God's gift to us? Like it was an absolute gift to us, and at the time there were 21 offers on it and um much higher offers than ours.
Speaker 1:You were on a limited budget.
Speaker 2:You were like, still, we paid 36,000 over asking and we still wasn't. We, we still weren't not the highest offer, but we, I think our, we want a 10 day right to inspect, but we are asking for no repairs because we knew we had to do so much anyway. And so when they accepted that offer, I was like, thank you, lord. And then, even in in the hard, um, we have had a sibling set of four at the time and a sibling set of two, and none of them were projected to be reunified. They were very close, but Without a date, Not for months, yeah, not for months, and the week that we closed. So we closed on Friday in May 29, may 29th I think, but that tuesday we had court and it was not. There was.
Speaker 1:no, it was not for reunification, it was I I don't even I can't remember what it was for, but yeah, but every court has a purpose, every court date has a purpose, and so you kind of know, going in, okay, this is going to be something, nothing or big.
Speaker 2:Right, and this was a nothing. Yeah, this was a nothing at all. And so I remember we were in the home, I was in the home and I was on Zoom, because you know all of the things, and while mom and dad of our four were, I mean just I'm doing amazing like there really was no reason for the kids not to be reunified. But that was just. That, wasn't we?
Speaker 1:we are not on that timeline yeah so.
Speaker 2:But the judge and I'm telling you this was a hand of god miracle and no one in that courtroom saw it coming but but that day the judge said you know what? I'm going to do something, and most of y'all are not going to agree with this, but we're reunifying these kids and we're reunifying them today. You may go and get your kids as soon as we're done with this. I fell on the floor sobbing because I was just in prayer that whole morning like, like Lord, you know, we we had, we were converting this one room to a bedroom and we were adding closets, like we were planning on bringing all the kids with us and they she out of. I mean, it was an absolute miracle and the kids wanted to go home and they should have gone home. You know, wasn't something out of it, but it was not expected.
Speaker 1:That day, and it should not also never, it never happens it never happened.
Speaker 2:So they were reunified and it was absolute amazing.
Speaker 1:I I mean, I just can't really even describe that story enough probably, but um yeah I think what you see in the story, though, is is everything that we just talked about, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that story sums up like this this thing that we're talking about, of like we're not alone, god's heart is for vulnerable children. All of the time that we get to be middle people, we get to say yes, and our yes comes at a cost, and you were willing to pay that cost. You were willing to renovate a house that you were buying in order to make it legal to be foster parents and I remember this where you're like okay we have 30 days in this house before we have to have the house re-inspected.
Speaker 1:And you were doing a gut, basically.
Speaker 1:Like one room at a time. You're gutting and you're like, okay, in order for that to happen, how do we need to do this for fostering? And it's just like when the pieces all fall into place and life is swirling around you, it just goes back into this. It's all of the things. My yeses matters, god's yes matters. These kids, these parents, when we stand here and we stand in this gap, we get to see, we get a front row seat to what this looks like, and it's worth everything.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:It's worth every ounce of it. Note at the end of every podcast we do a lightning round where I ask a couple questions and you answer whatever comes to the top of your head. Right then, okay, got it. Okay, what is on your nightstand?
Speaker 2:Oh, um a cup of ice at all times. Yes, um, a little lamp, and I have like two Bibles that I don't read anymore because the text is too small and my eyes are failing and I love dare Devotional. It's a corny thing I've had for forever, but I love it.
Speaker 1:But you love it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it.
Speaker 1:What song do you want played at your funeral At my?
Speaker 2:funeral? Yeah, what song do you want played at your funeral? At my funeral? Yeah, oh, we just talked about this on our trip. It's silly, but At Last, etta James oh. I just feel that I'm like I can hear that playing. When I see Jesus, I'm like my love.
Speaker 1:I like that.
Speaker 2:I love that Secular. Like love songs make me think of Jesus A lot of them do.
Speaker 1:Okay, last question what is bringing you joy right now?
Speaker 2:I'm trying to simplify life and I just want to sit around a campfire with my mom and dad. I just want to, you know, watch a baseball game with my mom, my mother-in-law Like I. There are things, simple things in life that I feel used to be normal before foster care. I mean, if I'm being honest, before foster care, that's that seemed normal, even though we did all these normal things when we were fostering. But, um, they weren't simple.
Speaker 1:No, they weren't simple. To do the normal things is not. It's not simple.
Speaker 2:I think Sabbath is probably. I think the Lord might be needing it for the world as a whole.
Speaker 1:Yeah, thanks for being here.
Speaker 2:Thank you for having me.
Speaker 1:Loved it, I've been very blessed.