Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
120 Kids Later: What Loryn Smith Learned About Faith
Loryn Smith brings 30+ years of child welfare experience as owner of Finally Home Christian Adoption Services, sharing her journey of fostering 120 children and adopting many into her family.
• Service without sacrifice is a counterfeit
• Being faithful is our responsibility; outcomes belong to God
• Finding freedom in being "just a character" in God's bigger story
• Relationships with children matter more than their achievements
• Living in today rather than worrying about tomorrow
• Creating community with people who understand your challenges
• Evicting unhelpful thoughts that rent space in your mind
• Redefining success beyond cultural expectations
• Hard circumstances reveal where grace meets self-sufficiency
• The goal is to hear "well done, good and faithful servant"
Connect with us at behindthecurtainpodcast.com to continue the conversation about foster care and adoption. Follow us on social media for more resources and encouragement.
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Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. On Behind the Curtain I'm your host, rebecca Harvin, and this is where we have honest conversations about foster care and adoption. Today on the show, my guest is Lauren Smith. She's the owner and CEO of Finally Home Christian Adoption Services, which is a private adoption agency here in Florida. This role complements the 30-plus years experience that Lauren has in the child welfare system, working both professionally and personally to impact the lives of children in the area. Lauren has worked as a marriage and family counselor, been director for both public and private foster care and adoption agencies and directed training programs for an adoption support center. In addition to her professional work, lauren and her husband have fostered for 30 years, adopting multitudes of children over the years. She's going to talk about that and I want you to be able to hear the numbers in the conversation.
Speaker 1:You'll notice that this podcast kind of just takes a running start, lauren and I. When we start talking, we just jump right in, and that's exactly what this podcast does. Lauren and I have done this from the very first time that we met, and so you get to experience it as a listener today. We'd exchanged a couple emails prior to recording this conversation and when we jumped on the mics we picked up right where we left off in the emails. So you're going to join us right there in the middle of one of those topics. Enjoy the conversation. I loved what you said last night about service without sacrifice is a counterfeit. I was like that is going to be challenging to people, but I'm here for it. What was the third thing that you said?
Speaker 2:My job is to be faithful people, but I'm here for it. What was the third thing that you said? My job is to be faithful God's job are the outcomes?
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I love that. I was sitting next to my daughter, who didn't know any part of your story, and so, as you were like going through all of your kids' names, she just kept looking at me like what is happening. And then when you said, like we fostered, for we fostered over 120, what's the? What's the official number? 120. 120. Um, she, her jaw dropped. She was like how is this even possible? Um, I think you've learned, probably more than anybody, that just showing up is is our job and God's like. Our job is to be faithful and God's job is to do the rest. I think that's, um, do you want to talk about that for a second?
Speaker 2:sure so I mean, you know, it's very easy in this world, when you're getting kiddos from different gene pools, different trauma histories and all of that, to want to take ownership of their success or lack thereof. And I had to learn when we got kiddos who didn't respond to any of the connecting parenting strategies or relationship building, and they just didn't respond rather than internalizing it and thinking, oh, what are we doing wrong? It must be on us. You know, I've learned just by having so many children to understand that God's just called me to show up and be faithful. And so when I get up in the morning and say, what do I have to do today to be faithful, I can do that because that's one thing at a time and one day at a time.
Speaker 2:And certainly in this world, the scripture that don't worry about tomorrow, tomorrow's got enough problems of its own. There is not a world that that's more applicable than this one. There is not a world that that's more applicable than this one. And I, you know I really have been able to internalize that I just have to show up and be faithful, that the outcomes are a hundred percent with the author of the story of these kids, and that's God. And when I quit trying to intervene with his story and just walk in the role of my character, I can be peaceful.
Speaker 1:When you are like I am just the character. It's not my job to do plot. It's not my job to do plot, it's not my job to do narrative, it's not my job to get all of the characters in the book from chapter one to the last final page. It's just my job to be this character and you and you narrow that like field of vision to that you find peace there.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of peace in that, because I'm not having to worry about anything except what I actually have some power to do. What was that?
Speaker 1:process like for you to learn that lesson. I went like an equation. I want like, okay, 10 months of fighting and wrestling, five years of learning to loosen my grip, two years of really embodying this and the next 20. I've been to like I know that that's what my brain wants, but I think that there is like some humanity in the answer of what the process was like for you of learning to be just your character and not responsible for the I think a lot of that came through.
Speaker 2:I am a perfectionist and a type A. Well, let me. I'm a reformed perfectionist and type A personality, and so I wanted a formula for everything, and if I did A plus B plus C, on the right timetable, we would get the right outcome. And unfortunately, that just doesn't work in this world, and typically when we were asked to take children, it was the more difficult children that they couldn't find placements for, particularly in adoption, and so we began having all of these challenges that I'd never dealt with before, and I would prostrate myself in my room saying, god, I need a fresh idea. And so I think it was part of that process when I just realized I didn't have to take on the full burden, I just had to take on my piece, and it was pretty easy to internalize once I understood that in my soul.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just I can feel so much freedom in that sentence. I can feel so much that sentence. I can feel so much that if I'm going to be really honest in my story of adoption, that has felt more like giving up than for peace. But when I hear you talk about it, I hear peace and what I was looking for in my story. Like as I've, I will say to people like you got to find your basement and then you have to get a shovel and you have to start digging, like whatever, whatever, your like bare minimum that you think is your bare minimum of standards for your own self in this right you got to find, or your goals for outcomes. Like you've got to find the basement and then you need to get a shovel and start digging and I found peace there. But I ascribed that peace to myself as like the letting go is giving up.
Speaker 2:Does that make sense? It makes sense, but I think a lot of that is a cultural component where we think we have to be successful. But successful in our culture is defined as you know good grades in school, a good career path, able to interface with people easily. And so in the journey I've also had to redefine success, and success means I have relationships with my kiddos, yeah, and so I have adult children that continue to make some really poor decisions. I have some that have been amazingly successful in the eyes of that cultural definition I gave, but I have others who haven't been and they've struggled more. But when people say, do you feel like you failed? I'm, I'm like no, because I have relationships with them yeah and they.
Speaker 2:they come home and reach out when it becomes overwhelming. And I know that there's a process through that and that's God has to work in his time, not my time, because I want it now on my schedule how it's supposed to look. And we know that in the world of trauma our kids are delayed anyway. So why do we impose that pressure on them to perform, to perform, and I think in so doing unwittingly tie love and approval to performance, and I don't want my kids ever to have to struggle with that. I want them to know that my love for them is unconditional, not tied to how well they perform.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think that that's correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that that's one of the ways that we keep connection with our kids is like you and I. We're going to eruption repair several times, but what matters to me is that you know that I'm here and that, um, that this thing matters and it might be fixable or not fixable, but you and I were always here, like I'm always Right.
Speaker 2:I mean, I often think of that and, you know, in parallel to our relationship with God. He doesn't say, oh, you screwed up, see you later. You know there are times he says I'm going to sit over here quietly till you figure this out. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But he's always there and when we take the initiative to find him, he's easily found, and that's who I want to be for my kiddos. I'm not saying that I always feel like I want to easily be found, easily be found. I'm not saying that I always want to um connect, but I do because I'm always reminded that without that same model, I would be in trouble in my relationship with God.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So how do you um, how do you do it Like, how do you do life um in the middle of the heart? How do you do, how do you walk this out with, with your kids and I know it looks so different with every kid Um, but what does that mean? What does that mean to you to do life in the middle of the hard?
Speaker 2:I think that one. I accept that struggle is part of the package, and so it's forgiving myself for struggling with a particular child or a particular behavior. That is just overwhelming, and so I just don't get trapped up, which leads into I don't do, coulda, shoulda, wouldas.
Speaker 1:Oh, with yourself or the kids, right Great.
Speaker 2:Okay. So because why we can't change what happens. So let me take my energy and pour it into what's real and when we could have, should have, would have and I talked to parents a lot about this is, you know, should we have adopted? Could we have done something different? None of that matters. Could we have done something different? None of that matters. We have today and we need to move forward. So let's look at today. So I really strive to live in today, not ignore yesterday. Yeah, but put my energy into today. Okay, I think I also. It's creating a community around you who really gets it Okay, who did not want either our presence or our lack thereof due to the behaviors of the children we had. But I've created a village of people who live my life, and so we can sit around and talk about the absurd things that sometimes our children do and we can laugh and not be accused of being absolutely crazy, because everyone gets it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, everybody has these stories, or if not, they're like whoa, I totally I don't envy you your story. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Or they don't say your child did what you know. They all say, oh, mine too. Yeah, I think that it's really helpful to have those people and I have found that I don't need a huge commit community. I just need a community who gets that the struggle's real and what that can look like.
Speaker 1:Yeah, can we go back to the coulda, woulda, shouldas, sure, and the living in today, not ignoring the past and not projecting to the future? I can get so trapped in projecting the future, so trapped in that, but my question is, how do you, do you have a process that you go through of, like rightly categorizing the past so that it doesn't affect today?
Speaker 2:You know it depends on the kid and depends what it is. But let me let me back up to a story that was years ago and let me preface by saying I'm old, I've done this a long time, so a lot of it now is just there. I don't know that I always remember the moment it became just there, but I think it was always practicing the same principles and they worked. But years ago we were asked to take a baby that was not expected to survive and he screamed for three years, day and night, had pretty poor outcomes and the biological father had contested. Mom had actually signed consents at birth, but his biological father contested it.
Speaker 2:But he refused to talk to DCF. He would talk to the lady who was taking care of his child, and so we began a phone conversation and I was kind but brutal, if that makes sense. You know, like I would say dude, where have you been for the first 18 months of his life? Well, he has screamed nonstop and I hope you have good insurance, because it's $100,000 a year right now with his bills, and you know I'd be, but he'd call me again and he'd call me again and finally one day he called and he said okay, I'll sign consent, but based on one thing. And I said well, I don't really think you have much room to put conditions on anything, but I'll hear you out. And he said that you and your husband will keep them because I know you love them and we'll take care of them.
Speaker 2:Well, that actually instilled panic, because at that time in history, which is about 30 years ago, there was not a lot of research around cocaine and the current thought was these were going to be our future psychopaths. And he was born profoundly addicted to cocaine and to the point where it, you know, really impacted his health. And so I had to call my husband and say hi, honey, want to have lunch, by the way. And as we talked about it, we both determined that we needed to pray, because our gut was yeah, I don't think so. Our gut was yeah, I don't think so.
Speaker 2:And, as I prayed, the thing that I heard over and over and over again was I want you to be his mom. For as long as I ask you to be his mom, and I thought that's doable Because I can be his mom today.
Speaker 2:And if you ask me tomorrow, I can be his mom tomorrow and that was so much more manageable than projecting what he was going to be like as a teen or as an adult. And it just resonated and, interestingly enough, because this is how God is my husband pretty much got the same message. And so we move forward and let me tell you that boy is a joy. We're so proud of him. We have great relationships. He is very successful and just a great kid and I'm very grateful we made that decision, yeah yeah, but the decision was one day at a time.
Speaker 1:Did it ever change for you to more than like um? Did that ever change, or did you stay at a time for a long time?
Speaker 2:No, I think that once I got the concept God was trying to get across from me, I shifted my focus to okay, I can do this, and as long as he's here, I'll give it my all. And and he was. He was tough, and there were periods of time he was tough but um yeah, but no, it became easy because, even though he was tough, we had established attachment with him, and so it was not very long before he was my child and I would have slayed the dragon to protect him.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have this like moment with God. My kids had to do a school drive, like a can drive, and every class needed four cans and there's six of them. And I was like this wasn't. You're not just asking me for four cans, you're asking me for 24 cans. Okay, like this is.
Speaker 1:And we had forgotten to go to the store and I was like who has 24 cans of vegetables like in their, in their cabinet at any given time? You do, for sure, in different seasons of your life. But but I like I could feel the panic start to rise, like I was like it's not just four cans, it's not just 24 cans, it's four kids that are all going to be driving at the same time. And you're like this is um, I know that you've experienced all of those things at different times, right, but my, I don't have any kid driving right now. So my brain projecting into the future is just, it's just pure panic over it and very much felt the Lord say like be here with me right now. And we had exactly 24 cans in our um, in our pantry, and he was like I have what you need for today. Like, just be here with me right now. And I go back to it. I'm learning that dance of I'm not.
Speaker 1:I have not sunk into living there in that, in that space yet I'm doing the dance still of like coming back to that truth and then getting overwhelmed with the day, or the kid, or the future overwhelmed.
Speaker 2:I think it's when we let it rent space in our brain where we run into trouble, and so I think it's practicing shoving things out of my brain that I don't have time or is not going to result in positive things. So I would say, for years I have practiced just exiting those things from the space that tries to rent in my brain and just say, no, you can't be here, I have way too many other things that need to be here.
Speaker 1:Oh, like a like. It's like a mental practice that you do of like bringing awareness to the thought, like, as soon as you're aware that you're having this thought that's overwhelming, that's not going to lead towards anything positive or just doesn't need to be there, you like consciously remove it remove it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, because, think about it, Most of us and I have done this in the past is we recycle the same thing over and over again. That tape plays in our head and it gets a little bit scarier every time it plays, or a little bit larger, a little bit more insurmountable, and the bottom line is I don't have control over most of those things anyway. So it's really a waste of my emotional, spiritual, intellectual resources to let it stay there. Lauren, that is brilliant. Like I said, I'm old, I've had lots of practice brilliant.
Speaker 2:Like I said, I'm old, I've had lots of practice. That's brilliant. Well, and I think part of it is the level of children that God seemed to think we were fit to parent. He and I have had some debates, but you know the level has been extreme and so it was. You know collapse and an emotional meltdown all the time. Or say you've called me to be here, so you have equipped me to be here, so give me some tools to make it through every day. And it started with littles, with medical issues, and you know that can be overwhelming and the constant crying. But I watch as God graduated us and then ended us with the most intense, bizarre behaviors we'd ever seen. But he knew that by that point we'd be, I'd say we'd be ready, we'd be willing to walk out his story, regardless of the hard, regardless of the hard.
Speaker 1:I think it says so much that, when you like every time I've heard you talk about your story because, it's true, like the hardest came at the end and you're still- walking out the hardest parts of your story correct, kind of Okay.
Speaker 2:So three have turned 18 and are out of our home. One is on the run, so he's not currently in our home, and so the ones we have at home are not challenging I mean above and beyond, you know, typical kid challenges but and typical trauma challenges, but not overwhelming, unsafe and those types of challenges. So I would say we're freshly out of it and it's tenable, because at any moment they could find our teen. He's doing a very good job of staying hidden though, and the police aren't looking too hard for him because they're so tired of dealing with them.
Speaker 1:Oh, how do you hold that as a mom?
Speaker 2:Um, I, I could only say this to a group of people who get it yeah, but I hold it as a mom. It is so relieving to have him out of the home because he was so violent and dangerous. But again I'm going to go back to where we started. God's writing a story. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And he's got them. And my prayer is when that brain develops and matures, we may see a switch. Here's what I know. For the first time I can say I didn't see any tangible change in four of the last five that we adopted. There really wasn't any marker of change that could be overwhelming. But I don't see it that way because what I do see is back to the faithfulness. They lived with us longer than they had ever lived anywhere in their life. They got to see modeled, what healthy relationships are. They got to hear the gospel on a regular basis. They got to see what a parent's true job is meeting needs and what a parent's true job is meeting needs and keeping everyone safe, setting appropriate boundaries in place, and those are all things that, if and when their brains make that shift, then they'll be ready to perhaps build a relationship. Yeah, and I've watched that happen. I mean I have a. You know the brain is fully developed between 25 and 30.
Speaker 2:And I have a kiddo who made horrible life decisions in the last few years, ended up losing her four children. That ended up with one of our sons and his wife had them for the three and a half years. They were in foster care status and we really didn't think that she'd get them back or that she needed to have them back. Just poor decision after poor decision. She turned 25 last year and it was literally like someone flipped a switch. She's got the kids back, she's doing great, she has a steady job, steady housing, not in a toxic relationship. I mean it was just like, ah, there's that brain I've wanted to see for 25 years, you know, because we've done this and we've seen kids and we have kids that are adults. You know, I think we understand what's possible, but here's what I know they had an opportunity that was my part in God's story to provide the opportunity. What they do with it is they're part of the story and their partnership with God.
Speaker 1:I love that so much. I've been in this season of trying to figure out the story element Not figure it out, that's not the right word, but recognizing stories that I've told myself at like I had a friend that called them like magical, magical thinking right Like this will, if I do X, y or Z, then this will like, if I do X, then Y will happen, and or just all kinds of stories from childhood of like this should be the way that this plays out. And I've been sitting in therapy so much with this idea of like this, the not just the fairy tales, not real but that we get to be a part of writing the story as it plays out and that ultimately it's God's job to write the story. Right, like that it's very much like.
Speaker 1:I am so fascinated that this is where the conversation went today, because it's literally where my brain has been of there's a different, better story. There's a different, better story than the one that I've been telling myself that I'm mad at that didn't come through, for whatever you know what I mean like that's right, letting go of the shoulds and going what's this, what is the story and who's writing it and who's responsible for writing it has been where my brain has been. I cannot tell you what a blessing this conversation is to me. It's just very kind of God for us to be having this conversation today.
Speaker 2:You know, I often see my job as a perspective shifter, you know, and I watch, you know. To go back to a comment you made, like with therapy Therapy, healing doesn't happen in therapeutic interventions or techniques. Healing happens in relationships, and so I'm not saying that therapy is useless, but I am saying it's not the source of healing. And. I think we mistakenly give the power to that process. Um, and our desperation of feeling like I'm not enough for my child.
Speaker 2:But our philosophy and working with families is families are the best therapists, they're the ones with the kids all the time, and so we want to give them therapeutic techniques to use in helping their children heal. But you know, and we see ourselves as tools, not as the healers, and I think that's important. But back to perspective shifting is that also helps, is that you know? Let me start with new families coming into the process and they are going to rescue a child.
Speaker 2:And there is nothing that probably triggers me more than that language. However, I don't see anywhere where I'm supposed to rescue, I am supposed to stand up for, use my voice for, meet needs of those are all the. But it's God's job to rescue, that's not my job. And but those same families, when they get a challenge, fall apart because they go back to the original sin in the garden where you know, eve said to Adam did God really say?
Speaker 2:And you know, eve said to Adam did God really say so? We question did God really say I was supposed to do this? But again, it's perspective shifting. Not what is my child doing to me, but how can I grow in this process? What is God trying to show me? Or it might be, you know, there's just so many different perspective with not why did this happen to me? But how can I grow through this? Because it's my reality. So can I not make it miserable? And one of the things I found is that if I fail my test, I get the chance to try them again, which probably is, you know, indicative of my stubborn nature, that I had to get to 20 kids to figure some of this stuff out, instead of learning after two, instead of learning after two. But God kindly has allowed me to keep trying till I'll never get it right, but I have gotten it much better and you know, rather than why is my child so hard?
Speaker 2:but how can I respond to my child in a loving, supportive way, even when I'm frustrated? You know not, I can't do this anymore, but what do I need to do for everyone to thrive? You know not, I'm alone, but where are my people? Have I found my people? And, yeah, and not I'm the only family experiencing this, but we're not alone. Yeah, I've done the work to do that and I just find I know there was a book written several years ago called Lies Women Believe, and I haven't read it, but the title was catchy and I often think we ought to come up with one.
Speaker 1:Lies Fostering Adoptive Parents Believe oh, my gosh Absolutely, that we should also have just some kind of common poster of things not to say.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that would be a good one. You asked for this. No, no, I did not ask for this. So you all, you signed up for it. No, I really didn't.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there was a person, um, when we were fostering that, every single time he saw me he said you asked for this, and I was like I can't think of a worse thing. To tell me honest to God, I can't think of a worse thing because I absolutely did not ask. I wouldn't have been involved in this if I knew that it would take me to the end of myself, which is just really a beautiful testament to the faithfulness of the Lord. Right, like he will let you go to the end of yourself so that he can come and meet you there in that place of. I think yesterday you were talking about grace as well, and was that the first one that grace is sufficient?
Speaker 2:Hard is not bad it's where grace meets self-sufficiency. Hard is not bad it's where grace meets self-sufficiency.
Speaker 1:Hard is not bad. It's where grace meets self-sufficiency. One of my dear friends when you said that, one of my dear dear friends, in the middle of a panic attack at church, said to me Rebecca, easier doesn't mean better.
Speaker 1:And I thing, like like the Israelites built altars right, like easier doesn't mean better when it's just all hitting the fan at the same time, um and so when you said hard is not bad, I was like we as a, not just as like people right, not just like wholesale people, but really in the foster and adoptive community, hard means bad to a lot of like we're, we are, we're our nature says hard is bad. Like get away from hard, get back to comfort. And we continuously get ourselves into situations where comfort is not the option unless you're comfortable swimming in deep, not the option unless you're comfortable swimming in deep waters or unless you're comfortable with the struggle like your body's fighting you to get back to to homeostasis and to like settled I think american christianity, though, perpetuates that.
Speaker 2:Even though we might say our theology isn't this, I think I watch many people living by it that if something's going wrong, you must be doing something wrong. Yes, and if you had enough faith, this would all go away. And that just says to me someone has not walked a hard road, because I had a lot of answers too, before I went through many different forms of hard. I mean, let's take it to its simplest nature I was an amazing parent before I had kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, 100%. When you talked about grace, when you're like grace meets self-sufficiency. My faith propels this walk, and I've walked with Jesus for 42 years. I've never known life without him and still I can forget to ask for his grace. Still I can forget to ask for His grace. I can forget to say like I can cling to self-sufficiency for so long and so hard. And when you're like this is where it meets, it's like, oh, this is the thing, this is one of the things that we claw at as moms, and maybe dads too, and we forget to ask for grace, or sometimes we just forget to accept grace because it's already there and we reject it because we've internalized some shame.
Speaker 2:Yeah, with what we've done. And yeah, I often say if I went to an AA meeting I would say my sin of choice is self-sufficiency.
Speaker 1:So yeah, what I'm hearing from you, I think and I might just be reading and I might be applying this to my own self is like that it's okay to let go, it's okay to not, to not manhandle a problem or manhandle like self-sufficiency into like the answer, and that there's. But there's other times where it's like and you haven't said this, I'm just just talking out loud, I'm processing out loud Like there's other times where your character in the story needs to sit with a problem for a little bit of time, like needs to be, like okay, this actually does need to take up real estate in my brain. This is not something that needs to get forcefully evicted, right. Is not something that needs to get forcefully evicted, right. And so how do you determine which is which?
Speaker 2:I think, when it's truly things that I need to change and work on where hard has revealed a character deficit in me or a lack of reliance on you know in the right places, then that may need to take up space. I think it's when we give ourselves sometimes so much power, so I think it's when I want that one you know that thing that's going to change my child.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I have accepted that I may never. I may never know why we walked certain journeys with kids on this side of eternity. I might never know, I might never understand, I might never find purpose in outside of the fact that I was able to be faithful for the time that God called me to be faithful and think about it when we look at that in terms of Scripture. The words that scripture uses when we see him face to face is well done, good and faithful servant, and that's really what I have adjusted, or attempted to adjust, my life to live for. Those are the words I want to hear Well done, you were faithful. Not well done, you figured it out. Not well done, you had all these successful kids. Not well done, because that's all me. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's in our weakness that he is made strong and it's like no, I had situations that were way above my pay grade, but they're not above God's yeah. So I took a step at a time and walked faithfully, and I'm not going to say there were times when I wanted to just be done. It's too hard, it's too overwhelming, it's taking its toll on everyone around us. That thought process I would let take up enough space in my brain till I could get back to. No, that's not true. That's not true. It is uncomfortable. But I am guessing, when the apostles were in prison being beaten, tortured and beheaded, and Jesus hung on the cross, he was not thinking this is great, what a great day. I'm so glad I can do this. I can do this.
Speaker 1:No, it was an act of submission that he knew the father had called him to it and he was willing to go through with it, to be faithful to his job as the son, and I want to be faithful to my job as a daughter of the king. I, I do, too. I do, too, I'm. I needed this so much today, lauren, like I'm, I'm so thankful. What were you going to?
Speaker 2:say, I was just going to say, me too, I speak to myself anytime I speak.
Speaker 1:That's just awesome. I can't actually think of a better way to end than to say at the end at the end I want it to be said of me you were faithful, like you just kept showing up. I can't think of a better thing like that God could say to me than just kept showing up On that note, okay. At the end of every podcast we do some lightning questions. Okay, three of them. Answer as quick as you can. Bedside table, messy or neat? No bedside table. Oh, we just did away with it. We just said we can't even have the clutter. No bedside table. Where do you? How do you read? You don't read in bed. I do, oh, okay. Where do you put your book On my bed? Oh, okay. There we go.
Speaker 2:Maybe you should have asked bed made or unmade? Okay, bed made or unmade? Oh, unmade, because my husband's philosophy is you're just going to sleep again in it tonight. So what's the point? What's the point, man? So I make it if someone's going to be here, yeah. But, sometimes I don't even do that, because I don't really care what now? Hmm. Um, probably I'm. I am rereading some of Francine Rivers books and right now I am reading a new. I don't even remember the name of the series. Let me look over here. Bridge to Haven.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:She just has, um, clearly has personal experience with grace and I love how she weaves her personal experience with grace into characters and her story.
Speaker 1:Um and I've learned is it the voice in the wind trilogy? Is that the name of the trilogy that she? Or is that one name of a book? I?
Speaker 2:think. Voice in the wind is the name of one of the, but I know what what you mean? Echo in the darkness.
Speaker 1:Echo in the darkness is another book in the series. Yes, oh my gosh, talk about a trilogy that shaped part of my faith. Is that that trilogy like so good, okay, last thing what is bringing you life right now?
Speaker 2:oh, what is bringing me life right now? I'm looking forward to two and a half weeks in Scotland with my husband alone. Yes, and I think I'm what brings what's bringing me life right now. Yes, our numbers are down and we're going to sell our big house and we're going to move, hopefully to land so we can go back to being horse people like we once were.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's lovely. Yeah, that's awesome. I grew up with horses. One of my fun stories is I came home and there was a horse in my living room One of my. I said that in like a random conversation, like just like a normal. It was with normal people. Other people there were normal, I am not normal and I was like, oh yeah, one day I came home and there was a horse in my living room and they all just kind of turned around and looked at me and I was like I don't know, one of my siblings, just the horse, just followed him in and they went with it and there was a horse in the living room.
Speaker 2:They're like oh yeah, when we had those five hurricanes in Florida that one years ago. I came home from work one day and I walked in the house and the horse was in the house and I said to my daughter oh, why is the horse in the house? And she said because there's hurricanes coming. She said that would be why we have a barn. She was like no, she needs to be safe, she needs to sleep with me. I said then you can go sleep in the barn, so I get the horse in the living room.
Speaker 2:Okay, on that note, thank you so much for being here my pleasure and I'm glad we got to do this. So next time you're in town, let me know.