Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
When Friendship Meets Fostering: The Power of Having Someone Who Gets It
The Jantoyas, Elizabeth Janssen and Lisa Montoya, share their journey as best friends, foster and adoptive moms, and tireless advocates for children in the foster care system. They discuss how their friendship formed over fostering challenges and evolved into a community-building partnership that supports other foster families while creating meaningful change.
• Elizabeth has 14 children (5 biological, 9 from foster care with 8 adopted)
• Lisa has 5 children (2 biological, 3 adopted - 2 from foster care, 1 private adoption)
• They met through a "blind date" set up by someone in the foster care system
• Their friendship extends to their husbands, creating crucial support for the whole family
• They formalized as "the Jantoyas" to share resources and support other foster families
• They provide food and support to vulnerable communities beyond their own homes
• They share expert strategies for navigating school IEPs and accommodations
• They developed a system for kids to create self-advocacy pamphlets for teachers
• They discuss the difference between trauma-aware and trauma-informed approaches
• They emphasize the importance of community in sustaining foster care journeys
Hey guys, thanks for joining us today. On Behind the Curtain, I'm your host, rebecca Harvin, and this is where we have honest conversations about foster care and adoption. Today's guests are a dynamic duo that locals in the foster and adoption community here in Jacksonville may already know and love Elizabeth Jansen and Lisa Montoya, better known as the Jantoyas. They're best friends, foster and adoptive moms and tireless advocates. They'll tell you the truth, they'll make you laugh and they'll definitely finish each other's sentences. We're talking about friendship, family and the real-life, unfiltered side of saying yes to kids in need. Buckle up, because the Jantoyas are in the house and it's going to be a ride. Hi, hi.
Speaker 2:Hello.
Speaker 1:Lisa, Elizabeth, it's so great to have you here on Behind the Curtain. I am ready to dig in. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:All right, let's go.
Speaker 1:Can you tell our listeners a little bit kind of about each one of you and then how you two together became known as the Jantoyas around town?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I am Lisa. I'm married to my husband Matt. We have five kiddos, two biological and then three adopted. We had our foster license for six years, so our middle two are adopted from foster care, and then our youngest was a private domestic adoption.
Speaker 3:I'm Elizabeth. I live with my husband Luke. We have 11 kiddos still at home currently and four adult children currently and four adult children, five biological and the rest adopted or and one currently in foster care, and that's.
Speaker 1:Do the math for people who are trying to follow along there. Just because that's more than the average household.
Speaker 3:Yes, so we have nine kiddos that have came from foster care. Eight of those are adopted, one is we're awaiting a finalized TPR, and then five biological.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:So it's 14 altogether.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 2:You didn't do the math, but I got you, but I got you.
Speaker 1:I used to answer that question when someone was like how many kids do you have?
Speaker 3:And I'd be like today, because tomorrow you could see me and that number is wildly different than the number that I have today and I often am like do you want to know how many kids call me mom and dad?
Speaker 1:Yeah, how many kids I buy groceries for a lot, yeah, a lot.
Speaker 3:We um, there's an area in our city that we feel very called to serve, with a lot of kiddos who are struggling and parents who are struggling and so we take groceries into them often and yeah summertime is hard, then for them so hard, and I often think it's interesting. There's a great organization that brings in food by the truckload to these places. But the tricky part is, I think the food that's brought in is meant to be prepared by adults, and if there aren't adults able to prepare that food, then what happens next?
Speaker 1:Isn't it weird how, so many times, when we're in this, it's like the answer that's intended to help causes another problem?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:And it makes me want to scream. And then there's other people who want to take away the initial answer to help, because they're like well, it's not doing the thing. It's like well, at least something is being done, Even though it's another problem. And so you're like yeah, you have to bring food, you have to bring uncrustables.
Speaker 3:Yes, or granola bars. I had a kid call me one time. They're like hey, just dropped me off ahead of Napa cabbage. What happens next? Like well, do you have a pan to cook it in? No, I don't know, I don't know what to do with it.
Speaker 3:Like it was very nice, but it's not going to fill your belly if we can't cook it yeah yeah, yeah okay, so you guys also bring, you have everything happening in your home and then you also still feel called to other areas of the community and you're doing that yes, and I think that comes from kiddos in my home coming from that area and still relating to their friends that are still stuck in it and being in our home and being so grateful for being in our home but never forgetting all their friends that are still in the situation.
Speaker 1:Do you bring your kids when you go bring food? We do, yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and they play with that. We bring the kiddos back out to our house for weekends and things like that, also to church with us.
Speaker 1:yeah, that's awesome. Okay, so you guys are best friends both foster and adoptive moms and you, um, were best friends for a while, and then you're like wait a second, there's all of this work to be done. I think I've never even heard you mentioned that you're feeding people in different communities. So, in addition to like all of the other stuff that you guys are doing, you guys kind of become the Jan Toyas and you solidify your last names together and say like hey, how do we, how do we do this in a more formalized way? Tell me a little bit about that process.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think. So we met. We always joke that it was like a blind date, set up by someone working in the foster care world because I had just taken we had just taken our first teen placement placement and we're definitely drowning in that a little bit. And so this worker knew that Elizabeth had done this for a long time, had great experience in that world and really wanted us to get together and kept saying y'all need to meet up and talk and all these things, which was lovely and so helpful. But also, in the thick of right, what we were doing, what they were doing. It was two weeks before christmas, like it just was a very difficult time to do that and so, but by lots of various circumstances, it happened, we met and it was fairly quick that we realized like, okay, they just like jumped right into supporting us, like there was really no questions asked Like what do you need?
Speaker 2:How can we support? And so it was like a huge blessing for our family, for sure, the hard our families bonded over something traumatic, and not just us, but like also our kids. So, like my, for my bio kids, it was the first time I think they had really seen trauma that they could like understand, versus, like when we had littles come through foster care, just like, like they were like oh, they're just having a temper tantrum because they're two, not they're throwing things across the house because they're 16 and that's like that looks very different, and so being able to talk with elizabeth's kids and all of that it just created like a family bond that we were able to do a lot together and be together.
Speaker 2:Um, and I think people saw that like from the outside and, truthfully, I think people were reaching out to us because the foster care world is really lonely and they saw that we had community and so that just naturally created people just like reaching out and asking, just asking questions, or how do you guys do this, or how do you take them all to this place, or how does it look when you're olderers or with your littles, or, and they just just the more that we like organically shared people started asking Um, and then I think we got to a point of being like, hey, we're spending lots of afternoons like on the phone with all these people that you know, maybe one more child is sending our way, or someone from Fostering Hope is sending our way or whatever, and we're repeating the same conversations over and over again because everyone is really asking a lot of the same things.
Speaker 2:So how can we come together and just kind of share what our experience looked like and let it be?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I agree. I think also in that coming together, I think our husbands right Like I think it's so hard in this community to find someone who understands what you're walking through and to be able to be like. You know this isn't a traditional mom and dad situation and we do a little bit better about like attending support groups and reaching out, but it's especially hard for our husbands, and so their connection has been lovely as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah, matt and Luke are like really good friends.
Speaker 3:Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:That is something that our family has been so lucky to have in. Some of our best friends is that Brad is friends with the husband and he doesn't have it anywhere else, and it's so lonely. Every single time I talk about a dad's retreat here, I'm like guys, I don't know what your problem is and also I really don't know how to do this for you, but I know that I need to get you guys in a room so you can say oh, me too. Like that there is power in hearing that somebody else is experiencing or has experienced something that you are experiencing and guys just miss out on it because of isolation.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think a lot of times it goes so much more like, yes, you have kids who have experienced immense trauma in your home, but also you're the husband of the wives who are at the forefront. And so just I mean, I'm sure Matt and Luke have multiple conversations about Our secondary trauma. Yeah, yeah, yeah, our secondary trauma.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and the way that it comes out for me is crazy.
Speaker 2:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:Like it comes out for me is crazy. Yes, like it comes out, brad's. Like I don't know if you're the same person that I married and I'm like, well for sure I'm not. Like that is.
Speaker 3:And I'll never be again.
Speaker 1:And I'll never be again.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Which is a loss, and then that's a loss in your marriage and it's a lot like all of the things combined.
Speaker 3:And so heavy yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's kind of stupid heavy it can be, elizabeth, you have tons of teenagers, it's kind of your specialty.
Speaker 3:Almost an actual ton.
Speaker 1:You have a baseball team of teenagers living inside of your house, which is why you were the person that Lisa was told to call. By the way, some of my best friends have been blind date friendships, where a friend of a friend has been like, hey you guys, I think you guys would like each other.
Speaker 2:Yeah people. From the outside, I feel like saw it way before we did yeah people from the outside.
Speaker 3:I feel like saw it way before we did and I was so excited to have someone else who does teens, because I feel like it's not all that often that people jump in and love teens and it was great. It was great. But then fast forward when I'm like I'm jamming out to this teen thing, like I only want teens. I don't know how many times I said to people like teens are great, they don't throw a fit, they can tell you why they're throwing a fit. Maybe is more appropriate there we go.
Speaker 1:I'm like I've had teens. They do throw fits. Yes, they throw real big ones.
Speaker 3:And then Lisa was like hey, let's do this baby thing together. And I was like no no, no, no.
Speaker 1:We're sleeping through the night.
Speaker 3:Yeah, been there, done that, diapers are done, sleeping through the night and she's like, no, come on, it'll be fun. So here we are, both of us with babies.
Speaker 1:When we first got licensed I said to our licensing specialist call people who like babies with a baby, do not call me, which sounds so awful. I realize that when I say it like that, but there are people who only want a baby and I was not. I'm not. I am more of a baby person now than I ever have been in my life. Certainly at the beginning of foster care I was not, but wouldn't you know it? Then I called back and I was like, okay, listen, if there's a sibling set and there's a baby involved in the sibling set, you can call me with that, but do not call me with like a newborn from the hospital that doesn't have a sibling. Call a baby person with that one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, that actually similarly happened to us. We got a call for a sibling set and there was four girls who are now our Forever Girls and they were like, well, we're going to bring you three of them and the other one will place close. And I was like, wait, why are we breaking up siblings? And they were like well, you said you were done with babies. This is a baby still in a diaper. I'm like, okay, well, I don't have to be that selfish we'll go back to babies for
Speaker 1:a little bit yeah.
Speaker 3:But not forever. Not forever. And here we are.
Speaker 1:The reason we got our placement now is because of the four. There was a five and a half month old and Zoe was like I want a baby, and so it was an easy yes then to give her the opportunity to have a baby in the house and we're like we won't be in diapers forever.
Speaker 2:And I also love the way that she said, like, can we get a baby? Because I feel like my kids' perception of how children join our home is so skewed from foster care, and so we'll like drive past a hospital and we only have one girl out of our five and she'll say, hey, can you just pop in there and see if they have a sister for me? And I'm like, oh honey, that's not really how it works. And she's like, but that is how it's worked for us. I'm like, okay, well, you're not wrong.
Speaker 1:You're not wrong, and also it's not like a good thing. Okay, so you guys formalize the Jan Toyas like hey, let's stop repeating our conversations. And what have you seen come from that?
Speaker 3:I feel like we've seen a lot of community formed by that. I also feel like there is still this like desire in both of our hearts to really dig in and help people discover the relationship that we have right, like to have your person who understands foster care, who can walk alongside you, who will come at two o'clock in the morning when you need it, or whatever, because they understand the heart of foster care and not encourage you to give up, but encourage you to keep going, and I feel like that is the biggest thing that's come from it in my perspective.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think, even just outside of the people that we have maybe have reached out to or that have heard our stories, I think there's been healing for both of us in doing it, like we've walked through some really, really hard things and being able to like have a formalized way of sitting down and being like hey, let's like force ourselves to like digest what just happened and process through it together and be vulnerable to share, that, I think, has brought a lot of healing, because I think a lot of times, especially in the busy and the hard, it's easy to just push those things aside and just keep trucking, and this forced us to reflect back on some harder things that we have walked.
Speaker 3:And I will say that, like in our so we've been foster parents for 13 years, just about 13 years, and in the beginning I feel like there was not the resources there are today. Right, we didn't have the podcasts, we didn't have the support groups, we didn't have a lot of those things. And so finding the community now what? Five years ago? I feel like it has given us um a longevity that we didn't have before. Like I was ready to throw in the towel, I was ready to be done, and for sure, there are still days where I'm like I am ready, but having community in this form has allowed us to like, take a deep breath and be like all right, we can do this again yeah, how long have you been fostering, lisa?
Speaker 2:we got our license in 2018, whatever that makes it okay.
Speaker 1:Yeah, seven years, I think seven years yeah yeah, and we, we didn't close our license until um our youngest, came home from the hospital so in the building of the community, one of the things that you guys have done is you've started teaching people how to advocate. Now, Lisa, you were a teacher in public school system, so you come at it with a little bit of an advantage, Elizabeth, you also were a teacher, yes, Okay. So let's pretend like I am a mom that has never had any kind of hiccup at school with my kids that have been in my house, which prior to 2017, is accurate. Oh, what a joy. It was a joy and I've realized that it's not.
Speaker 1:That's not a common thing. Even if you don't foster or adopt, like, there's tons of children with IEPs and 504s and all kinds of things. Tons of children with IEPs and 504s and all kinds of things. But my first couple rodeos with this I was going in. I'm a very type B mom. I'm a very like oh, they'll tell me what I need to know kind of person. Until they don't. But you don't even know that they don't if you don't know, right, Like you just kind of assume that everybody here sitting at this table has the best interest of this child. Um, and and that is a viewpoint that I really do like to have and and try really hard to keep Like. I refresh that viewpoint every time I come into the room and feel somewhat naive.
Speaker 3:A lot of times. I am very impressed that through the system, you still have that viewpoint.
Speaker 1:People don't get paid enough. You know what I mean. Like when I look at them, I can see the heart of the person that came into the job. You, they didn't take this job for the money. Nobody, nobody involved in the system has taken this job for the money, and so I look for that person in them. Um, I love that.
Speaker 1:I'm not always that nice, but also, like teacher, teachers don't get paid enough to put up with the crap that they have to put up with at school these days, and so when I'm going into those rooms, that's what I that's the viewpoint that I like to hold. It doesn't always work in my favor. I have definitely sent emails to the top person at different licensing agencies before when I couldn't get stuff done. But how do you guys go? How do you know how to advocate? How do you go about it? If you were kind of coaching somebody that's never had to do it, where would you tell them to start? And we can take this one of two ways. We can take this towards the school system, or we could take this towards advocating for best interest of the kids in your home.
Speaker 1:Actually let's do that.
Speaker 3:And I feel like it's the same right. This best interest of your kid at school or all around, I feel like, is still the same.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I feel like you have to step back and look at each kid for who they are, because none of our kids need the same thing to be successful, and so for some of our kids, public school may be the answer, and we may be able to advocate best for them in that setting, them in that setting, and for other kids we may have to walk away from what's comfortable or familiar with the hard truth that maybe that isn't what's best for them in this season it doesn't have to be forever and then pull together your own resources, which can be harder and a lot more work to put together a plan that may work best for them.
Speaker 1:What does that look like for you, Lisa?
Speaker 2:So right now, that is homeschool, and, coming from a public school educator, I didn't ever think that that would be part of our story.
Speaker 2:I grew up in public school, I taught in public school, and so homeschool was never it was just never something that I thought would be a fit for our family.
Speaker 2:But we have had experience with the public school system that was not a fit for one of our adopted kiddos, and while I just said like every kid is individual and do like what's best for them, there was also this pull of this particular child has already been isolated in so many other areas of our life, whether that was a church nursery, not feeling like he was a great fit for them, or a summer camp, not feeling like he fit there, and so he was continually watching all of his siblings go in one direction while he was being told he didn't fit there.
Speaker 2:And so when we decided that a homeschool hybrid kind of option, a co-op option, was what would best suit him, we also decided that that was going to be what everyone did, because I didn't want another instance for him where he was the odd man out and it's been beautiful, like we've seen so many great things come from that for all of our kids, and I actually think, while he enjoys being with his siblings, I actually think that my oldest biological kiddos enjoy it more having their younger siblings with them in the same school setting. Our daughter is a natural leader and advocate, and so for her, I think she feels very empowered of him being in the same setting as her and being able to use her voice in a positive manner to make sure that his needs are being met. And while I realize that's not her job, I'm thankful for her, just like natural ability to do that in circumstances where I may not be there.
Speaker 3:And I think that no matter what you choose whether it's public school, private school, homeschool or a hybrid option the advocacy piece doesn't change right Like there's. What we've realized in our friendship is like there's not a perfect fit. I don't feel like for any of our kids, or at least we have not found a perfect fit for any of our kids currently, and so we're constantly together talking about like okay, well, this didn't work. What if we tried this along with this? Or what if we switched it all up and did something different. I think to answer your question about like how do you know? I think you have to be so tuned into your kiddos, just like we are as moms, like we know their individual needs. For me, it looks like when someone comes home and they've had a rough day that normally shouldn't be a rough day, why was this rough? Were you getting what you needed? Did you have everything in your toolbox to have a successful day, or do we need to look at other ways to advocate to make sure that you do?
Speaker 2:And I feel like we just got to experience together for one of your kiddos who was struggling in the public school system.
Speaker 2:We actually went to her IEP meeting together and the beauty in that was that for a moment Elizabeth could just be mom and just talk about her child as an individual, could touch upon the trauma component and not really have to think about all the educational jargon that was being thrown her way.
Speaker 2:And I took on the bulk of the educational conversation and it was just like a really good balance of being able to be like yes, we do need to look at education, we do need to look at test scores and setting and all of these things, but we also need to focus on just who this child is as a person and how do we meet them where they're at, regardless of what a score may look like on paper, together to kind of tackle that.
Speaker 2:And I feel like we talk to a lot of other families who are struggling in a school setting about that component. I feel like we hear so many families getting wrapped up in the educational piece. They're not meeting this standard or they're not able to do what their peers are doing or they're struggling with this and those families have been removed from being able to, just like, look at their kid as a child and remember where they came from and what they may be carrying with them because a particular school setting has put so much emphasis on a score or a grade instead of the whole person.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I think that's the part as foster moms and adoptive moms that I feel like is a struggle. It's like how much of their story do you share when you're advocating? How much do you hold tight Like I don't want to advocate and share a story that is then going to be held against my kiddo, right? I don't. I don't want you to see them as anything other than the way I see them and Lisa and I talk a lot about. It is really hard to send your kids somewhere where you don't feel like they are wanted or loved, because I want them and I love them, and so if that means they have to stay at my house all day and I have to figure it out, that's what I'm going to do. But at the end of the day, I want to advocate in a way that they are in a room where people understand them and love them and they can have the skills they need to continue through life.
Speaker 1:Yeah, those are some really solid points and my brain is swimming with follow-up questions right now. But to your point right there, I often feel like sending my kids to school gives them other people in their world and this is just me and just in my house, and this is just me and just in my house but it gives them people who can see them. I mean, we all know that my kids don't have a ton of days on end of success at school, but it's so. It has been so relieving to me to see there's this. One of my kids is in the front office a ton.
Speaker 1:And I was talking to the school secretary about it and, like the ESC teacher, we were all just kind of standing there, we were joking and I said, yeah, this kid is a delightful mess. And the school secretary busted out laughing and she goes that is the most perfect definition of this child. They are so delightful and they are such a mess. Yeah, it's accurate, Like they were like. And then the secretary was like I know that I'm not supposed to have favorites, but I'm telling you that your kid is one of my favorites here.
Speaker 1:And then my sister, kind of same day, sent me a text that she had run into one of my other kids' teachers and that teacher was sort of crying in the hallway talking about how proud she was of my kid and all of the advancements that they had done that year.
Speaker 1:And my sister was like I just want you to know your kids are really loved here. And the relief that that brought it's not perfect, right, but the relief that that brought to my heart of like, oh, they get to take a breath from me. And I think I'm saying this on a day because it's the end of june when we're recording this and I'm like, holy crap, these kids need to go back to school and we're not even through the like hump of the summer right now when I'm thinking this of like they have been underneath my feet now for well, the end of june is like, the honeymoon of summer is over, like, yes, the first two weeks are like, oh, this is so fun and we don't have to pack lunches and I'm really glad about that and everything.
Speaker 2:We're sleeping in an hour later.
Speaker 1:we're getting into the real rut of summer right now, as as we are recording this, and I am feeling it today. But I wanted to go back to something you said, lisa, when you were like I got to handle the education aspect. Elizabeth just got to talk about her child as a kit, as a delightful, fully realized human being that has strengths and weaknesses and just wonder at who they are and who they get to be, and you got to represent that. And then you get to do the education side. How do you know what to ask for?
Speaker 2:So in this situation, we were doing an IEP revision and we knew what to ask for, because the child was not successful with the IEP that the school had wrote. And so if our child has an IEP and it's being followed, and we're still not successful in these settings, our grades are slipping, our communication is struggling with our teachers then obviously we're missing the mark. And so for me, the first step going in was are we actually meeting what's on here? Are we doing what the IEP says we're doing? Because that's step one right.
Speaker 1:And how do you find out?
Speaker 2:So this IEP had an example of small group instruction and so I just asked a very open-ended question and said tell me what small group instruction looks like in this classroom for this child? And the definition we were given is actually not small group. And so we did some kind back and forth of what the definition of small group really is and what individualized instruction looks like. And so the school was adamant that 25 kids in a class, six going to the back table sitting together while the one gen ed teacher is teaching from the front of the room, is small group because they're sitting in a small group. So we kind of went back and forth with the fact that that you know that isn't small group and how can we make this actually be small group? And so that, I would say, is the first step on any IEP is be very open, know what the IEP says. If you're confused by what an accommodation is supposed to look like, ask somebody who knows. Ask another teacher outside of your kids' teachers, ask somebody outside of their circle hey, what would small group look like for you if you saw that on IEP? And then ask those open-ended questions to know exactly what your child's day is looking like right, because on paper her IEP looked beautiful, but what was actually happening in the classroom was not that.
Speaker 2:So another thing we saw on there was this child could go to a resource room anytime throughout the day to have test questions read, to help better understand an assignment, to catch up on homework. Great, that's very needed for this kiddo. Tell me how that works. Well, sometimes we go in the room and say, does anyone want to go to resource? And she doesn't normally stand up and go Okay, rewind. Why do we think this child doesn't stand up and go? Well, she doesn't need it. Okay. So now this is my point in the conversation, where I'm like hey, mom, this is a really good time for you to interject and talk about why this child may struggle to stand up in front of a class of her peers and walk out willingly to an ESE classroom in front of everyone. Why might that be a struggle for her? Why might that be embarrassing for her? Or let's talk about her lack of communication and why she's not going to walk up to a teacher and say I'm struggling, I need to go somewhere.
Speaker 2:And so how can we tweak this to where now, instead of the teacher walking in the door to pull kids, maybe she meets her in the hallway and says do you need to come to me today for your test? And in a one-on-one setting where she feels confident to be able to do that. And so, really, her IEP was written correct, but we had to tweak the way that those things were being presented to her to best fit what she needed.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and as a mom, I think it's hard to know when those accommodations aren't being met, because a lot of times, at least for my kiddos, the communication piece is the hardest piece.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right, like I don't know what's happening when you're at school, because the communication is always a struggle, and so, like I said, I feel like just really diving in and knowing the human helps a little bit. Like coming home agitated, I'm like why, when you have these things in place, we're hoping that it makes your day a little bit easier. But for this particular kid she's in a place at school where she's very well known for other things that she does, great things that she does, and being a leader in athletics.
Speaker 3:And so for her to step out and not be a leader necessarily in the classroom, that's hard, that's hard, and so I think that was part of the struggle that we were dealing with. We're still working on it.
Speaker 1:You're still in the middle of it.
Speaker 3:Yes, and that's just one kid out of all the kids that we you know. It's a lot.
Speaker 1:It's hard. I know that for one of my kids I really felt like I needed to ask for no homework. Like they're at an age where that really is not going to be a big problem, right, and there are a couple of grade levels in ability. So the homework that they're getting they can't actually do by themselves. And the way that our family operates, between picking up from aftercare to bedtime, is not conducive to me sitting down individually with one of the kids while we're working through all of this homework and the different teacher said, like hey, you can ask. Like this can be a thing.
Speaker 1:Parents, first of all, we have no idea that this can be a thing. Like this is your average Joe parent does not know everything that can be included into an IEP. And so I asked for it and there was, like this, all of this pushback of like well, I think that homework is beneficial for X, Y and Z, and I was like, okay, great, all of your points are very valid. Here's where the breakdown is is that everything you're trying to teach this kid can't be taught with the homework that they're getting. So we're, and they're going into another grade this is at the end of the school year Like we're trying to set this IEP up for next year's teacher.
Speaker 1:I'm going to have to go through this whole thing again with with them. And it's like how, how do we write in here Maybe homework for this child, because she was talking about executive function and organizational skills and all all of the things that are needed to accomplish all of these other things. And it's like maybe homework is like handing the folder to the teacher and that's what counts today. You know, like how do we? How do we scaffold and even know what is available to scaffold?
Speaker 3:So I just recently attended a conference session where I found it was so educational even for me. At this point I feel like I've had so many IEPs come in and out of my house, but you know every kid is so different. And the suggestion there was to Google Florida IEP accommodations and there's a whole list of options. Okay, and literally use them all. Use them all if you want to, but like practical options that will help.
Speaker 1:Hold the freaking phone.
Speaker 3:What Right? Yes, what.
Speaker 1:I feel like my head might explode. There's a website that is all of the available accommodations.
Speaker 3:Yes, and what has worked? I mean really any accommodation in Florida has a possibility, right, like you could come up and say I can only wear black shoes and like there's a chance that they'll say, okay, fine, but it's a list of accommodations that have worked in Florida schools previously that people have accepted that you can definitely use.
Speaker 1:Wow, okay, all right. Well, now we have a place to start. This particular kid's IEP is 40 pages long, so they're not shy on accommodations when it comes to this particular IEP. But I remember one time asking for like OT for I've asked for OT for lots of kids yeah, related to succeeding at school, so find motor skills for handwriting. And I'm like, what about the OT that is needed for, like sitting in a seat so that you can learn? How do we put in some OT like fidgets and different there's so many different things like they need a brain break, they need all of these things, and they're like, yeah, that's, we can't. We can't directly correlate that to them learning, and I want to scream every time that I hear that.
Speaker 2:That's when you said OT. That was the first instance that popped in my head when we, when our little one was in public school and I had requested OT, like right off the jump, like we enrolled him and I was like, and we need OT. Like I knew he is a highly sensory seeking kiddo and I knew that a strong OT accommodation, a list of OT accommodations, were going to be needed in his IEP. And I kept getting like, well, before we can add anything in the IEP, we have to do an OT eval, and right now we're on a very long wait list for that and so it may take some time throughout the school year before we can do that. So I just came very prepared to our IEP meeting and I said, hey, I know that you had mentioned there's a long wait list for OT. The good news is this child gets OT privately outside of the school system already, and so I've worked with a therapist that knows him well. We created a sensory diet and I'm eliminating a whole step for you, so save your time on your OT eval. Here's the sensory diet that I want added to his IEP and here's all the materials that go with it.
Speaker 2:And they definitely looked at me like I was absolutely insane and we're like, well, I mean, and everyone just kind of like him hauled around for a minute, but there was. I didn't leave any room for like hey, can we try this? I said if he is going to be in a classroom, this is going to be necessary for him to be successful. And I'm not asking you to do anything. I'm not asking for your resources, I'm not asking for you to provide the material, like here's the weighted lap blanket for when he's going to sit at circle time. I just brought it and I understand that that may not be feasible for everyone to bring the things that that your kiddo may need, but I always offer.
Speaker 1:I always offer. I'm because you're always constantly hearing about budget this and budget that. Right, I'm like I will send in the weighted vest. I will send in anything that you need. You need a little bumpy seat thing. If there's anything that we know about the foster, community.
Speaker 3:I'll send that in.
Speaker 1:That is correct. Yes, elizabeth, to your point about how much of their history do you disclose. That is such a tricky one for people in our shoes, right, like, if my daughter has a learning disability, there's nothing I can point to that says like, oh, she has this specific learning disorder which, for the record, when I got that about one of my kids and it said like she's been diagnosed with specific learning disorder, I was like what is that? And they're kids. And it said like she's been diagnosed with specific learning disorder. I was like what is that? And they're like it's specific learning disorder. And I was like what's specific about it? They're like well, you, then you have to specify what the specificness thing is. And I was like you guys understand that that's dumb, right, like, but you can't say that out loud. But just, I wouldn't go on record and be like that is a dumb diagnosis to call something specific learning disorder and not have any specificity attached to it very unspecific is dumb.
Speaker 1:okay, let's move on. Um, somebody listening to this is going to be like whatever kind of neuropsych person they'll be like. Dear miss harvin, it's actually not dumb. Here's the medical reason why. Okay, save your email, whatever, anyhow, but you can't point to it with some kids and with some of our kids, you can point directly to it Fetal alcohol syndrome.
Speaker 1:You can point directly to this kid has RAD, and so there's going to come with a whole host of things that are going to happen at school that don't fall under the category of easy to attend to, right, and so you want to say part of their story in the beginning. And I always know if somebody's read an IEP or not, because the first paragraph starts with their history, and one of my kids was clicking at four years old. It's a pretty significant thing that they weren't speaking words at four years old. When somebody says that they're concerned about their language skills and this particular kid has four different qualifiers that are all related to language, um, I'm like you haven't read the first part of their iep, which would tell you exactly why language is one of the problems. Um, what do you guys think about that?
Speaker 2:well, I was just going to say it doesn't even. It doesn't give you a lot of confidence moving forward 100.
Speaker 1:One hundred percent.
Speaker 2:You haven't read the first sentence. So how are we supposed to sit here and make all of the goals for the whole school year when we haven't taken the initiative to do our own homework as the educator or person in that role.
Speaker 3:We started because of our conversation with the school this year. We have started to now our kiddos, who are older obviously probably not in your situation create your own pamphlet that says what your IEP needs like, what your accommodations are, why you need them and how it helps you to be a better learner, and present that to all of your teachers. Can I get and present that to all of your teachers? Can I get? It has been so beautiful because it opens up the communication that my kiddo already struggles with right and it allows the teacher to see the student for the student and not the paper that's before them and have a conversation about what this looks like in their classroom, like what does this look like in sign language versus what does this look like in math. Using that to advocate for yourself and use your own words has been so good for her and so empowering.
Speaker 1:I feel like that's a complete game changer.
Speaker 2:It's huge, it's huge and it allowed this kiddo in particular, I think, a lot of confidence in doing so. But also right, like when we look at an IEP or a teacher looks at an IEP and it says small group setting, that doesn't really tell me much about the kid. So when a child presents it and says, hey, my IEP accommodation is small group setting. I need that because I'm embarrassed to ask questions in front of the whole class. This makes me a better learner because I feel more confident and safe with the resource teacher. That looks very different than sit at the back table with a few peers because that didn't meet the middle section of why the kiddo feels that this is why they need that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and then let's go back to when we were talking about just assuming that the people at the table want what's best for the child. When you come to a teacher like that, or you come to any educator like that, they want your kid to be able to learn they want I don't know if there's anything better for a teacher than watching the light bulb come on in a kid's eyes. Right, yeah, like that is the, that's the gold of. Ok, I know the moment that you caught that, the bossy E makes the other one say its name. Right, like, yeah, my gosh, one of my kids is on the couch doing this the other day, and they're the one that you kind of never know if they're picking up anything that is being taught and they're just singing the song that their teacher taught them and they're teaching the other children who are maybe older than them which does not go well for one of my other kids, if you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:And I'm like, great, this is wonderful, peer pressure is awesome. And you're like, oh yeah, the bossy does do this thing. That I didn't even know the English rule, and I'm, that's a side trail that is neither here nor nor there. But I know that for that teacher, that watching my child make those leaps and bounds is everything for them.
Speaker 3:So to have a pamphlet to say, hey, it's not just an iep accommodation, like there's a need, there's a real reason that this is here and I think for a kiddo who hasn't always been safe with adults, being able to have that conversation and feel like, okay, I've shared with you a piece of me and I feel safe. Doing that is huge to build a relationship moving forward for the year as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I feel like it helps bridge the gap between the conversation we recently had between being trauma-informed and trauma-aware. I think a lot of educators are probably trauma-aware. They know it exists, they know it's out there, they know it may look a certain way To actually be trauma informed and to know that what I saw is a reflection of something else going on in this child. And then it doesn't stop there. We don't just stop at the behavior. We go back further and figure out why that may be happening and figure out how to fix it the next time and figure out how to make that kid feel safe. Like that's trauma informed, that's someone who's willing to get in the mess and do that alongside of our kiddos and not just saying, oh yeah, I know they have trauma, but I still yeah, I know they have trauma and I also know that they cause a gigantic distraction every time that math is coming up.
Speaker 2:But those two can't possibly be linked Right and I know that you say that they've been hurt by trusted adults in the past, but when I see behavior in my room I'm going to send them out.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And we miss the connection there that now you are the same as those adults that have hurt them in the past.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we had one of the greatest gifts in a teacher this year when she trusted me the first week of school and I said that, no matter what happens, you cannot send this child out of your class. If you do, they will never. You will lose everything that you've worked towards and they will never respect you again. So if you have to for safety reasons which might happen you have to leave with this student. You have to be the one that solves this. You have to be the one that resolves this. And the teacher was like I got you and never one time, never one time I just want to offer her a job and a abc liquor gift card.
Speaker 1:I know, I know because my kid put that teacher through the ringer. So much, so fun story. And then we're going to hit the lightning round. I had been at the school earlier that day doing an IEP meeting for a different child in my home and then I went for drinks with a friend that came to do what you do, lisa, like I have a friend that comes in and does the advocacy piece and I get to be the mom, which is great because I have no idea what I'm asking for, and she worked in the school system for 20 years and she's a brilliant advocate.
Speaker 1:And then we left and went to go get a margarita and the school called while we were there and I was like I am not, I am not answering this phone. I am sorry, I will go to confession later, not really, I am sorry, I will go to confession later, not really, but I'm not answering this phone. I've already given enough of my time and it's the school psychologist checking on me and also would like to talk to me about one of my other kids, and I don't call back in time. I end up emailing on Monday, tuesday and I say hey, blah, blah, blah. On Monday, tuesday, and I said hey, blah, blah blah. They email back immediately and they say well, I was with this one teacher and then I had a conversation with her about your child and we believe that we need a 504 immediately. And I said whatever the teacher told you was accurate, like that is just go with whatever she has said, go with that. They respond back instantly and they're like great, here's a form. And also the meeting is on Friday.
Speaker 1:You know it's good you know, you know, and I was like oh crap, okay, so we get to the meeting and this psychologist. I will literally never forget this. The psychologist goes I was in the room for a different kid doing an observation, but then your child tell me more about my rock star and how much they stand out behaviors, because you know a new person was in the room, so they were gonna.
Speaker 1:They were gonna make themselves known, um, and the teacher goes huh, that was like an eight out of ten day for this student and I was like you're welcome, the harvins have arrived. Oh man, yeah, so I know you've done your homework at the end of every episode we will most episodes now.
Speaker 1:Sometimes we don't do it, but we do this lightning round thing, and so I'm going to ask three questions. You can both answer. One of you can answer it doesn't matter, we're going to go as quick as possible and then see how it goes. Okay, what is on your nightstand?
Speaker 2:Two books.
Speaker 1:Which are Okay.
Speaker 2:I typically am reading like a fiction.
Speaker 1:And a nonfiction. Yes, same Like at all times.
Speaker 2:Yes, because it just depends on how my day was and what my brain wants to handle. So currently, the explosive child, the front cover that says like chronically inflexible, is really what caught my eye, because that describes mine perfectly. So that which I'm doing, read aloud to my husband because I feel like it's not fair that I'm always the only one doing my research. So I'm reading aloud to him so that we're both in this together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's super romantic. That's very romantic.
Speaker 2:It's great, and on the days that I'm not ready for that, I drown myself in. I'm currently on a Frida McFadden little kick, okay, so I'm reading her book the Surrogate, okay.
Speaker 1:That's the only thing on your nightstand, oh no.
Speaker 2:Whoops, that's just my books.
Speaker 3:Okay, a half-drank cup of water because I take one to bed every night and then I don't actually ever drink it A clipboard because I am a.
Speaker 2:I'm currently a cheerleading coach for one of my daughter's teams and the only time that random things come to me for cheerleading I feel like is when I'm trying to go to bed and we practice kind of late at night and so I feel like by the time I get home and like decompress and practice, so I just keep the clipboard with all my notes and all of their cheer things, formations and stunts and everything next to my bed because I'll randomly get up and put something on it. That's it.
Speaker 3:Yes, for me. I also have two books, maybe less intriguing. I always have my Bible by my bed, not always in it, but I always have it there just in case I've had one of those days. I'm not always in it, but I always have it there just in case I've had one of those days. And currently I'm reading Stranger Care Love it, by the way. A glass of water really full, because it doesn't actually get drink at all, and for sure ponytail and a dish where I take my wedding rings off every night because I can't sleep with them on.
Speaker 1:I just added a dish to my nightstand. Okay, what books or we already did books, but what podcast or any other books that you're loving that you would recommend to the audience?
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh, you guys. This is like my frivolous, this is my no brain New Heights podcast with the Kelsey brothers. That's where I'm at. It's so good All the time.
Speaker 1:I'm always there, it's so good, I love it, and then I forget that it's explicit and I listened to it with my kid on the way home from Gainesville and then I'm, like you, kind of hear this stuff at home too. So it's fine.
Speaker 3:But it makes me laugh. I'm not going.
Speaker 1:Kylie's is also equally great. Hers is so good. I listen to them both, yeah, and then you know, throw in a little. Okay, are you a Swifty though? Is that how you got to New Heights? I?
Speaker 3:am a Swifty. Okay, there we go. I actually also love football and my husband played college football and so we love watching football together. But our oldest daughter, emerson, who is 19,. We took her when she was six to Taylor Swift concert and it was like before she was who she is yeah, before she was anything and I loved her then and I love her still yeah, yeah, lisa.
Speaker 2:I, to be honest, don't listen to podcasts super often. I think that is my ADHD. Like, like, even like when I'm reading a book, like I'm still like a paper book person, like I can't like on a Kindle or something like people can read, so I will start listening.
Speaker 2:and then I realize that I am doing something else and I'm not listening and then I'm trying to go back to find where I was and it just ends up eating more of my time. But since we're talking about podcasts, I'm gonna go a totally different direction on a kid's podcast that we have found that has honestly changed our car rides for the better. So, tiny Theologians, my kids are obsessed with it. It's like 15-ish, 14, 15 minutes, depending on how fast you play it. It is the perfect amount of time for our drives to school in the morning. It goes like two kids on an adventure. They figure something out from the Bible, but it's like really engaging.
Speaker 1:And decent theology. I'm hoping, yes, it is.
Speaker 2:And my kids do not fight on the car ride to school because they so want to hear what's happening. So everyone is quiet and it's like I can drive to school while drinking my coffee and allow my brain to like think in the morning, and it also just like sets a good tone for everyone.
Speaker 1:Yeah, last lightning round question what?
Speaker 3:is bringing you joy. I'll go first. I am in a stage where I'm now seeing my adult children make adult choices and become the humans that they are. You're an incredible human and you can articulate your story and navigate those relationships has been incredible for me.
Speaker 2:Wow, I was going to go something like I am still going to go something very just, like random and light. That was like very deep and are wholehearted. I love that, for you. My bio kits are turning nine this weekend, and so we're I'm in the midst of like planning a birthday party and I actually like, I like planning events, I like like a theme and good decor and all that.
Speaker 2:So that stuff brings me joy good decor and all that so that stuff brings me joy. But I think it brings me joy more because we always give our kids an option of birthday party or trip every year, and so the two of them have chosen trip for the last several years, so we haven't really had like a big birthday party, and part of me wants to believe that it's because they feel a little more settled and like there's less chaos happening in our house that they want to bring friends into it.
Speaker 1:Gotcha.
Speaker 2:So it's bringing me joy that they want to have people in our space and that they get a chance to just be like celebrated for them, cause I feel like you know a lot of times our other kiddos get a lot of attention and special things because, of their circumstances, and so just getting able to like, celebrate who they are is bringing me joy.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Okay Well, jan Toya's um thanks for being here. It was really super fun having you on.
Speaker 3:Thanks for having us. Yeah, thank you.