Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Each episode will feature a conversation between host Rebecca Harvin and foster/adoptive caregivers or members of the community who support foster care and adoption.
Behind the Curtain: Honest Conversations about Foster Care and Adoption
Foster Care Stories: The Role of the Guardian Ad Litem and How it Impacts Children in Foster Care
Two friends pull back the curtain on what a Guardian ad Litem does, why the role matters, and how one steady volunteer can change a child’s case. Andrea shares training, time commitment, school advocacy wins, and the power of speaking for the child alone.
• what a guardian ad litem or CASA is and does
• training, background checks, and virtual court workflow
• time commitment of 12 to 15 hours per month
• how to investigate when stories conflict
• advocating for reunification visits with safety in view
• teaming with attorneys and case advocate managers
• securing IEPs and school services through trust and persistence
• being the most consistent adult through placements and turnover
• better outcomes with a GAL: stability, graduation, fewer referrals
• how to volunteer and where to get started
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Hey guys, thanks so much for joining us today on Behind the Curtain. I'm your host, Rebecca Harvin, and this is where we have honest conversations about foster care and adoption. I am very, very excited about today's conversation, not only because I get to talk to another dear friend, but because this is our first conversation with a guardian at Lydum. My friend Andrea McCullough is on the podcast today. She became one of our Haven moms several years ago. And prior to that, I had only heard about her through mutual friends. We have several circles that overlap, and everybody would say, Do you know Andrea? You should know Andrea. Do you know Andrea? I think you would really like Andrea. And then she came to the first retreat that I was not at. So then I still didn't meet Andrea. And um after that we met at one of our Haven functions, and I was like, Oh my god, I love Andrea. Since then, um Andrea has become a guardian atlightum, which is an advocate for children in in the court system. And so today she's on the podcast to talk about that specific part of her life and how being a guardian atlightum is one way that we can advocate for kids in foster care. So without any further ado, here's my friend Andrea. Welcome.
SPEAKER_03:Thank you. It's good to be here.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, I'm um I'm really, really glad that you're here and that um when I narrowed down the topic for you, you were like, yes, that's an easy yes.
SPEAKER_03:I'll do that one.
SPEAKER_01:Sometimes I feel like it can be so broad coming on to a podcast when our life and our work intermingle so much, and it's like, whoa, how do I even narrow this down? But we have not yet had a guardian at Light Um on this show. And so I'm so thankful that you're here to talk about it. Um let's go back a little bit to 2021. Um, you come to your first Haven retreat, and um what happens there? Start start us on your journey.
SPEAKER_03:Okay, okay. So, yes, I'm an adoptive mom. And through that experience, I got to know other foster and adoptive moms, and I was just really, just really fell in love with the people and the children they were serving and wanted to find a place to be more involved. And the only way that I knew to do that, the only way I saw people doing that was as foster parents. And I didn't feel that that was a right fit for our family. So I was on the hunt for something, some other way that I could volunteer in the welfare system. So at my first Haven retreat, I met another Guardian Adlinum. Uh, you know, we just went around the circle and shared about our lives and what, you know, our families looked like. And her kids were grown, um, but she started talking about being a gal. And I'd never heard that term before. I was like, well, I think I'm a gal too, like guys and gals. That's the only thing that I knew. And throughout the weekend, I just peppered her with more and more questions, and immediately I knew this is something that I can do. And it was about a year and a half uh before I was able to actually pursue it. I've I found myself on a board of an institution where I was able to advocate and use my voice for foster adoptive families, but it wasn't the right fit. And so as I got out of that situation, I dove right into uh being a guardian ad lightum and the training. And uh I've just never looked back. I love it. Now, three years later, I've been doing it.
SPEAKER_01:Sue definitely has a way of bringing people along into the things that she's passionate about. Yes. Um, Sue is the guardian at lightum that she is talking about that was at that retreat and a dear friend and kind of fellow colleague of mine now. So um, and was our guardian at lightem. Yes, yes. Um let's do two things really quick. The first thing is um quickly, what is a guardian at lightum? And then what did Sue say that made you think I could do this? Like how did she describe being a guardian at lightem that made you go, oh, I have the time and the space and capacity?
SPEAKER_03:Yes. So what it is, uh, when a child enters foster care uh through abuse, abandonment, or neglect, the um their protection kind of changes. It changes hands from their parent or the caregiver, whoever was in charge of them prior to being removed, now to a judge. And he appoints agencies to carry out their care from day to day. And um, one of those agencies is the Guardian and Lightham office. Um, it's now a national program, sometimes in other states, depending on legislation. It's also called a CASA, a court-appointed special advocate. So depending on your state, it looks a little bit different, but it's always an advocate specifically for the child. Different parties in the case will have their own advocates or lawyers who are acting on their behalf. And so the Guardian Ed Lightum is specifically for the child and no one else. We are advocates for them.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. And then what did she say that made you think, oh, I could advocate for kids?
SPEAKER_03:Um, the way she described um the building a relationship with a specific child and getting to know them so that she could speak on their behalf in reports and in court was initially what grabbed me. I I felt that I had a passion for this area. I felt like I was pretty good at advocating and speaking for on someone's behalf. Um, but also the time commitment, the way she described what it involves from her day to day life, it seemed very reasonable for what I could offer.
SPEAKER_01:Um, can we go a smidge in? Because I know that people are gonna listen to this podcast and they're gonna go, oh, I could be a guardian at line. I don't want to foster, I don't want to adopt, I don't want this in my home, but I do want to do something for kids. And so um, what's the time commitment? How much time if you have one case?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, typically one case will take about 12 to 15 hours per month of your time. Um and it kind of ebbs and flows a little bit, but it rarely goes over 15 hours per month.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. So that's really doable.
SPEAKER_03:It's really doable. It's really doable. Initially on the front end, there is 30 hours of training.
SPEAKER_02:Okay.
SPEAKER_03:You have to be a 21, pass a level two background check, and go through 30 hours of online training. I'm told it's very similar to the training for foster parenting. Um, it's online classes, so you can go at your own pace. Um, and then you'll be assigned uh a case advocate manager or a CAM who will essentially become your supervisor and you'll attend court for one day to observe what dependency court looks like in some of the hearings that you will sit through. Um and then you'll be given your first case. And if you only want one case, that's fine. For your first year, you are only allowed to have one case to learn the ropes and get used to it. And if you never want to have more than one case at one time, you don't have to.
SPEAKER_01:I am like sitting here and I'm like, I could be a guardian at light of. But true story, when we closed our foster license, I was struggling so hard with like what's my new role in the system? How do I shut off this piece of me that is so much an identity at that point, but also like really filling a thing that I I do very naturally, which is to advocate for kids. And now I now I have the ones in my house, and um I've spent a lot of time in therapy with what that difference feels like, right? Um but it becoming a guardian at lightum was one of the things was like, how could I do this? And I mean, I spent when I say like I spent probably like a month actively thinking through this the commitment, time commitment. Now that you're saying it, my life is in like such a different place than it was in 2023. I'm like, oh, I could do 12 hours a month, that would be amazing. Um what was well in adoption? Had you been in dependency court?
SPEAKER_03:Never. So we privately adopted. So I had never been through dependency court. I had never experienced the foster care system and all the people coming in and out of your home. I'd never had a relationship with the Guardian Lightum before. So this was all brand new to me.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, Andrea, what was your first day in court like?
SPEAKER_03:So now court is all virtual. I feel like that's a big question people have. I have not attended court in person in these three years. At some point, I may have to, but so far it's all virtualized. Sign on my computer from home or wherever I am for my court hearing and then sign off. So it's very doable. Um, and our reports that we write are are submitted in written form ahead of time. And so there's very little speaking that I have to do in court.
SPEAKER_01:I guess that changes the entire experience from when you were like, we had to sit in court all day long. What you're saying is I had to sit on Zoom. Um my first foster placement case, they were like, you have a court date on whatever day. Um in Jacksonville, they have a new courthouse, right? And so A, I had never been inside the old courthouse, and B, I had never been inside the new courthouse. And I'm not entirely sure at that point in my life if I had ever been inside a courthouse. Certainly not a courtroom. I can hear when I'm saying this, like the privilege that in this sentence that I had never been inside a courtroom. Um and so, you know, I go through security and I go upstairs and I'm just a foster parent. I don't know if I'm in the right place. I don't know. I there's like a bailiff outside. I, and he's like, no chewing gum, no talking, and like like there's all these rules, and I'm like, oh my god, like I like the anxiety coursing through my body, and I'm not on trial. Like I'm not anything. I just am like, I feel like I could get in a lot of trouble here. Like I feel like this is the ultimate principal's office.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Then you have to, you know, on a court day, you sit and you wait for your case to be called, right? And so then you hear all of these things that are wild that don't fit into any box that I've ever had. And I'm sitting there in their room, and again, it's like this complete mixture of like, this is so far outside of my comfort zone. I feel like I'm being called to the principal's office, but I I'm not. And but people that I love are being called, like, and people that I don't even know, like all these strangers, and you're just watching all of these parents stand in front of a judge, and the emotional experience of being in court that first day. I'll never forget it. Yeah, I will never forget what that was like. Um so I guess one of my questions would be like, has that gotten easier for you over time? And how many years have you been doing? You started in 2022, 2023.
SPEAKER_03:Uh, I've now been doing it for three years. Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um have has court gotten easier?
SPEAKER_03:It has gotten easier. I now know what to expect almost every month. There's at least one hearing that I'm attending. Um, so I've been to I've been to quite enough quite a few hearings by now. Um you are there is a portion of waiting. You kind of are given like a 30-minute window. So I am hearing, like you said, other cases and other seeing other parents take the stand. Um, and there is an emotional weight that you feel, you know, for these people. Um I am more used to it. I'm able to compartmentalize and, you know, just really um stay on track with what my role is, and that is to advocate for the child uh in their best interest, you know, um, even if it's in um, you know, conflict with, you know, a lot of times what the foster parent wants or someone else, um, you know, just let it letting go of those emotions and just staying with, you know, I'm here for the child to represent them.
SPEAKER_01:That's such a good point that you're making right now of like knowing exactly what your lane is in that courtroom and staying true to it. So can we can we dig in a little bit there? Because I know this from the foster care side, and I know this from having good relationships with my guardian at Lightems, but having never been one, uh and mercifully I've never had a bad experience with a guardian at LiDem. Um I kind of like pull them along as my best friend, and that like you are the person in court that can get the most done for what I need.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, because there is um a distinct weight on the garden at lightem. When you stand in that courtroom, you are the advocate for the child, regardless of anything else happening in that case, and the judge knows that.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And so the judge is looking at you and your voice holds a lot of currency in that room. How do you shoulder that burden, knowing that your voice holds so much weight in the case as it unfolds in court?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, that that is quite overwhelming. And what I have found is that I am a part of a team. And so the Guardian Adlightum office in Florida consists of an attorney, a trained attorney, and a case advocate manager. Every child in Florida that enters care is assigned those two people. Um, and they are paid positions from the Guardian Adlightham office. Hopefully, when there's enough volunteers, they will also have a volunteer, and that's my role. So I have the case advocate manager really acts as my supervisor, and I'm in constant conversation with this team, um, just bouncing everything off of them. Any information that comes in goes to them. And so we're a team as we talk about what we feel is in the best interest of the child, and we come to a decision as a team that is then presented to the court. So I have found that that burden is shouldered with me by two other people.
SPEAKER_01:I love that. I really love that because it doesn't leave you feeling exposed or alone in the in the process. Now you're going into these homes, you're developing relationships primarily with the child, but also with the foster parents, with the case manager to an extent, you at least have some awareness of the case manager, right? Um what does that look like from your A, from your perspective, but B, I guess I let's answer that question first, and then my next question is gonna be what happens when something when your gut tells you something's off? And I want to kind of I want to explore that a little bit.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. So recently I've heard of this job described as a private investigator, and I think that's a really good description of what I'm doing. Um and a story that I heard again recently of how the Guardian Elium office became a thing is in the 70s, this judge was overwhelmed with the children he was making decisions for and just being kept up at night, not feeling like he had enough information. And so he just put a query out for some volunteers to show up and help him investigate the children's cases before him so that he could gather more information to better inform his decisions. And he had 60 people show up and he was just blown away by the willingness of volunteers to support children and welfare. And the that's where the Garden of Light office started. It's expanded since then to be a nationally recognized program that advocates for children and care. So thinking about my job as a private investigator, I am reaching out to every single person involved in this child's life and gathering information about what their support looks like, what they're finding, what they think this child needs. And I'm distilling all of that information into what our recommendations are. So primarily that is meeting with the child and knowing them personally. Um that's the primary lens that I filter things through. But I'm also, because these children are young, reaching out to schools and visiting them in schools. I'm often included in IEP meetings and guidance counselor meetings. Um, I'm reaching out to the caseworker almost once a month, um, and of course the foster parents, um, and just even the biological parents or the caregivers that are trying to are working a case to get their children back. I'm reaching out to them and any therapeutic services that they are receiving, I'm getting those that information so that I can see how they are doing with their case plan. Um, so it's a lot, it's a lot of information that I'm reaching out for and pulling in and using to inform our decision.
SPEAKER_01:It's easy when all of that information matches. When you're going into the foster home, because um I have so many conversations with guardian at lightums, right? As a foster parent, you've got the caseworker coming in, you've got the guardian at lightum, you've got like if there's therapists that come to your house, or you know, like all of these things. Your house is a revolving door that operates on about a 21-day cycle when reports are due. Yeah, exactly. Give or take a couple days. Um, but but you're talking to the foster parent and hopefully developing a relationship with them and hearing things, and then it's so it's easy when all of that information coincides. Yes. What the foster parent is saying is the same thing that you're seeing, like presenting in the child, is the same thing the case manager is saying, is the same thing their therapists are saying, is the same thing their teachers are saying. Now, obviously, humans all have different perspectives and different ways of interacting with kids, but generally speaking, they're painting a full picture that like all of the colors match.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly, exactly.
SPEAKER_01:They're all in the same section of the color wheel. What happens when it's like dissonant? When there's the foster parent is saying something and you're not seeing that matched anywhere else, or the case manager is saying something and you're not seeing that matched anywhere. And particularly in those two places, because that's this is the core team that is around this this child.
SPEAKER_03:Yes. So what happens in those situations, if there's something that comes up where it's like, ooh, that could be a red flag, what do we do about that? Um, depending on what side, if it comes up on my side, I will reach out to my team. I'll also reach out to the case manager and just say, This is what I'm hearing. Have you heard anything like this or seen anything like this? Um, if the case manager, for instance, says, Oh, I'm hearing from the kids that there's this person living in the house that I've never heard about. Have you heard anything? She'll reach out to me. And I'll be like, nope. And then usually what we'll say is, well, let's do a couple pop-up visits, let's go investigate. We'll make a plan to investigate further and see if this really is a thing. Um, another hypothetical is, you know, specifically with the foster parent, a lot of times there can be um disagreement on like visitation. Visitation with bioparents or family members can be a little bit tricky for foster parents because often they're the ones taking the children home after the visits and behaviors happen. And it's easy to believe that if behaviors happen after these visitations, this is bad for the child and we need to not do this anymore. But if the goal of the case is reunification, as it often begins, visitation has to happen. That's essentially court-ordered. Um, and so it's my job to advocate for um visitation if I believe it's in the best interest, but also some safety measures, like this is going to be supervised, this is gonna be, you know, in this location where there's other people around, um, like at an agency office. Um, and so when there's a disagreement like that, we have, you know, that's usually when the Guardian Lightham attorney will get involved if they're, you know, the foster parent is just refusing to comply or just dragging their feet with scheduling. Um then we have some ways to kind of like remind gently that this is, you know, you are caring for the child from day to day, but ultimately they are in care, you know, from the judge. And these are the things he's asking us to do, and these are the things that we need to comply with. Um so that that's where it tends to get a little bit tricky. And it, it um, you know, it's important there to remember again what my lane is, what my priority is, and hopefully, and often I have really good relationships with foster parents and a good rapport with them. But when things, when we have a difference of opinion, um they can turn on me real fast. I bet. And, you know, it's it can be easy to get my feelings hurt or be like, oh, I need to make them happy again. But that's not my job. My job is to advocate for this child and just stay in my lane. And my job is not to be friends with them. You know, it's easier when we are, but my goal is not to remain friends with them. It's to advocate for this child and to work with them to make sure this child is getting the best care that they can and, you know, remaining in contact with any family that they've had before, if that's possible. Um so that's been my experience so far.
SPEAKER_01:Um, I want to add into one of the things that you were saying when it comes to visitation, that one of the points that you made is like this is court ordered. Um and I would imagine that part of your job though is also to disagree with the court if it's not in the best interest of the child, right? Absolutely. So because I've seen this in in action, I I um wanted to like really make a point that um your job at the highest level is to advocate for the needs of this child. Yes, if the case is going, if the judge is ordering something that's not in the best interest of the kid, of the child, um, guardian at lightums stand up. Yes, yes, guardian at lightums are like, excuse me, sir, uh-huh or ma'am.
SPEAKER_02:Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_01:Uh this is not in the best interest. And you can do this, you have the right to do this, but this is not in the best interest of the child. And and that's what I'm like, get it.
SPEAKER_03:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:Get it.
SPEAKER_03:And we will usually have information that we are presenting for them. We can make a case for why we believe this is in the best interest of the child, and our attorney is really good at doing that.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, the the best attorneys that I met in this system were the Guardian at Lightham attorneys that just they are passionate about their job. They have to be passionate about their job because they do not make what other attorneys can make. Nope. And so I was talking to somebody one time and I was like, I always assume best interest, especially in child welfare system, because nobody makes enough money to do this for inherently the wrong reasons. Yes. Yeah. Is my belief. Whether it's right or not, I have no idea, but I do know that attorneys don't make what they could privately. Yeah. This is they're working for a nonprofit, right? Um The other thing that I wanted to point out, specifically around visits, is that the reason I think that you would say if this case is going towards reunification, which they start out 99% of them start out towards reunification, then it is in the best interest of the child to maintain this relationship. Exactly. In a safe environment. And that best interest does not always mean best behavior.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Right? Like it's hard to do healing stuff, and there's repercussions of we know this as adults, right? Like when I have a really hard day in therapy, I am shit for brains the rest of the day. Like I am not, I'm out. Like, right? And that is um and my kids like in the in the crux of my healing um journey a couple years ago. There would be very physical signs that I had had a hard day in healing, and and my behavior, air quotes, uh would reflect that. Yeah. And so it takes a lot of courage though to counteract, I guess is what I'm trying to say. A foster parent who is pouring their heart and soul into this child and is taking the brunt of that behavior afterwards. And they're desperate for somebody to see the brunt that they are taking. And so I bet they do turn really quick when you're like in the best interest of the child. This is gonna continue. And they're like, how can you say this is the best interest of the child? They're doing X, Y, or Z, and you and I can both fill in those blanks. Um, but I just wanted to like I wanted to highlight those two things that that guardian at Lightem's go-to bat in the courtroom against any and all parties, including the judge, politely with respect in a very in a very legal way. But I have seen it, man, and I am like, that is one of the reasons why I am like the guardian at lightem is always right by my side in a case because if if I'm coming at this from the foster care perspective of my job is to be the middle mom and to advocate as a mother for the best interest of this child, then my next best person is the person whose job it is to advocate for the best interest. You know what I mean? Like where it's just like hey, you and I, we can work together and we can actually make a whole lot of things happen for the good of this kid.
SPEAKER_03:Exactly.
SPEAKER_01:Um and that feels like we get to do exactly the thing that we are meant to do. And it is lovely when it works out like that. Yes. And it's not so lovely when it doesn't work out. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but um, so coming, that was one of my questions when I was thinking about this beforehand is like, what how do you sit, how do you sit around the dining room table when the story is not making sense? And and I'm sure that there's an element of like trusting your gut instinct. Yeah. Right. Um I'm really glad we talked about that. My next question though is over the last three years, I'm sure that there have been things that have stood out to you, that there have been moments where you're like, this is exactly why I do this work. Can you, is there a is there a moment like that that you can share?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes. Um so I think something I'm most proud of on my first case, and I still have this case, it's an exceptionally long case. Hopefully, it's coming to a close soon, is working with the caregiver that will hopefully take on care long term for these children, in um walking alongside her, getting services for the child at school. This child um needed exceptional services at school, needed to get an IEP, an individual education plan. And the caregiver, as I started talking to her about it, was completely against services at school. And she just did not trust the school system. She had had a previous experience with them that just really went sour a few decades ago. And I spent a lot of time talking through that, hearing her story.
SPEAKER_01:From decades ago?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes. This is a this is a family, an older family member taking taking care of yes.
SPEAKER_01:You just you literally saw all of my judgmental side.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_01:Straight up.
SPEAKER_03:So one of the previous children in her care that has now grown, she had a really bad experience in the school system with them. And she just was of the mind that they don't know what they're doing, they don't handle kids with behaviors very well, they just want to put them in a corner and just. Forget about them. And I just listened to her story and helped, you know, gently talk through some things and spent a lot of time building her trust that it's not the same. We've the school system has changed and evolved over these last couple decades since your experience. And they're doing a pretty good job of serving children. And I know how to help you get the services that this child needs. And, you know, over the course of a year, I just attended all the IUP meetings with her, acted as kind of like a translator for all the acronyms and just the language around advocating for a child in the school system. And I we have we have come full circle, and she is now just taking the reins on advocating and pushing back for her child and saying, nope, we're gonna have this testing 30 days earlier. You can do it in 30 days, you're gonna have it 30 days earlier. And it's just been so um, it's been really good to see her just take the reins and from where she was up, just not trusting them at all to now working with them to get to care for her child.
SPEAKER_01:You guys can't see Andrea right now, but I can and this this is the meat. This is this is it. Like this is why Andrea does what she does, this is why I do what I do, is because when it works, when you get to see, both of us are in tears right now behind the microphone because when you get to see that you came in the middle of this messy broken portion of the story of these kids' lives, right? And we all have these our stories are chapters, and every good every good book has uh uh problems for the main character. And when you get to come into somebody else's main character story and you get to be a supporting character and a guide, and you get to use your own life experiences. Your own life experiences, like Andrea didn't just inherently know the school system. Andrea was banking on things that she had had to learn in her own life, and she was using her like patience and her calmness and her like the presence that she walks into a room with. There's a reason that everybody in my life that knew Andrea said, Rebecca, you should know Andrea. It's because she walks into a room with this peaceful presence and this patience that says, like, let's have a conversation and to be able to bring that in and know that you are now that this child's life is better off because you're part of it. It is the absolute meat of what we do and why we do it, and like it's the it's incredible. Like it, I I wish that every single person listening to me could experience this one time. Yeah, you would be hooked. Yeah, absolutely. You'd be hooked because is there anything better in this entire world than than intersecting a kid's story in the darkest parts and turning it towards good? I don't know if there is. It's a G-rated podcast, but I don't know if there is humor to deflect because I'm all up in my feels right now, but um man, I love that so much. Yeah, I love that so much. I love I don't like that the case is so long, no, but I like everything else that you have said. There was a moment when my kids came to me, they're extremely delayed, and we've talked about this on the show before. And um also I just want to pause real quick and say, like, if you're listening to this and you have experienced something similar to what Andrea was just talking about, or you don't know how to advocate for your kids in the school system, if you go back a couple episodes and we might link it here, um, there's an amazing episode with Trina where she talks about the like we we touch on the language of advocating in schools and stuff like that. So we have resources for you here. Um but there's this moment that the kids had been in our home for I don't know, seven months, eight months. And when one of our kids came, they weren't talking, they were talking in two-word sentences. They were, I mean, just just this is why they came to us, right? This is my like niche, developmental delays in foster care. And um they come home from school and they come running upstairs to where I am, and they have a test score, and they have scored a 100 on this test, and it's like I don't know, it's like VPK or it's kindergarten or something like that. Like I I think it's I don't know what year it is. I like I wept. I called my guardian at Lightham immediately. I called Sue, I called the caseworker, and I was like, guys, look at this. Like, I you know, I'm sending pictures, I sent pictures to their bio parents, like I sent, I, I, I sent that picture to everybody I could.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Because it was that like, look at this moment. This wasn't possible. Like what you were talking about is experiencing something that wasn't even possible a year before. Yeah. And and now it is because you intersected the life of a kid. Oh, I love that so much. God, I love that so much. Okay, do you want to tell one more story?
SPEAKER_03:Um, it's not really a story, but I I remember hearing in training that often we get to be the most consistent per adult in a child's life and care. And I was like, I don't know about that. Like, how does that happen? And that's exactly been my experience because we are assigned to the child no matter what changes in the case, no matter what caseworker turnover, whatever placement change happens, which it always does, I am there. I I follow the child. And so that has been my experience. I've been the most consistent adult in the children's life, and they can count on seeing me every month, sometimes more than every month, no matter where they move, where they're going. Um, and that has just that stood out to me because these children need something constant in their life. Um another thing is that children are, when they have a guardianed lightum, they are 50% less likely to return to care when they have someone advocating for them. If they're reunified, a guardianed lightum is there to make sure that this is actually a good thing and they don't let it happen if it's not, so that they are less likely to return to care for another episode of abuse, abandonment, or neglect. Um, they're also more likely to graduate high school, less likely to have conduct uh referrals. Um, and it it really the return on investment, what you're putting out is just returned like exponentially.
SPEAKER_01:Um I'm like literally like itching in my seat to go sign up to be a guardian at Lightham right now. No idea. Um so question then. What um do you follow the case for six months after? If they're reunified, like I know the caseworker follows for six months. Does also the guardian at Lightham follow for six months?
SPEAKER_03:I believe so. I have not had a case close yet, so I have not experienced it, but I believe so.
SPEAKER_01:Um and then I just also want to like reiterate that or say from personal experience it never mattered before we didn't we had never adopted kids before, right? So not that it never mattered, but because I held that middle mom position, what happened before and what happened after I want to make sure that I say this right, because certainly I care, but um those things hold less weight for me than than the portion of my job with these kids, right? Um and because children had come in and been reunified or come in and gone to relatives or come in and gone like because their story keeps unfolding without me, um the beginning of their story I I never had access to, but I didn't like matter in a not what do you know what I'm trying to say? It didn't matter, but not in a not good way, like it in a healthy way.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um when these when my kids came for a lot of the case, we did not know that we were adopted. We had said yes, but we did not know that officially we would be needed to adopt. Um and what ended up happening is that Sue, their guardian at Lydum, who had become a dear friend, held their story. I wasn't around on day one in foster care, day two in foster care. I I didn't know Tate. I didn't know my youngest at two weeks old, three weeks old when he came into care. Sue does.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Sue saw all of the homes that they were in. Sue has all of this, she knows in a way that I never will because I didn't get to experience it, but she has held those stories for me and she brings them up sometimes, and it's a way of me getting to know my kids' stories better. Yeah. Because now it matters significantly. We don't have a single picture from our kids from the months that they were in foster care before they came to us, which is crazy, right? We we have a fraction of pictures from their life before that. So for somebody to say, for these five and a half months, I tracked everything. Yeah, I know how they came in, I know how they um experienced the beginnings of foster care, I know what it was like for them to be removed from their parents, is an invaluable gift to me. Um in a way that I didn't even know to expect. Yeah. I didn't, I didn't know because we had not adopted.
SPEAKER_02:Right.
SPEAKER_01:So guardian at lightems, we never had one change. We had case workers change, we had all kinds of things change. We never had a guardian at lightem change. Always. And we never had a child that came directly to us. They had always been somewhere else first.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah. Um, yeah, and you assume that everyone, you know, the case does follow the child and information, the reports follow the child, but there's so much in each of their reports that the new person is, I'm sure, trying to be fully read up on it, but it's so much information. So I've had several experiences where I come to the table and I'm like, we need to remember this. Like this has happened before, and this is how we handled it. This is what worked. Um, or this is new. We have not experienced this in these previous placements. And often I have been surprised that I'm the one that remembers those things when there's turnover. Um, because often it it does get forgotten.
SPEAKER_01:You become the keeper of the story.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:And um, Sue did that too. Sue would be like, no, we've seen this pattern before when I would not have been aware of it. Because I didn't, I wasn't around when that pattern emerged, right? Or um yeah. Yeah, it was it was always such a great experience working alongside. I I will tell this one story about Guardian at Lightham's, and then I want to hear your favorite part of being a garden at lightem, and then we'll kind of wrap up. So um in our second case, so my first case was like every perfect thing that you can imagine. Like my first case, we had this rock star caseworker. We had um, we had a rock, we had a great guardian at Lightham, we had a great magistrate in the thing, like everything. The children came to my home with pages from Wolfson because they'd already been in the hospital. So they came to my home with pages of follow-up appointments so I didn't have to advocate for any of that stuff. There was stuff I did end up having to advocate for, but the team was in place that advocating was easy, um, which was great, and a gift because my second placement was the opposite end of the spectrum in as many ways as you could possibly imagine. It was the opposite end of the spectrum. We were out of county, so we had a like an a volunte not a volunteer, but uh out of county case manager here in Duval. And then I still worked with the one that was in the county that they came from, and um we had a guardian at Light M. Um and it was their first case, and these kids were were dropped off at my house. Our world upends. Okay, I mean, I just I could go back to this day a thousand times in my memory. And our that case worker to my dying breath, I will never back down on this statement was the absolute worst. To the point where I was like, why are you in this field? Why are you so like I have no tolerance for somebody whose job it is is to to do right by kids, and they just don't. And yeah, um, I have to be very careful what I say here. And I I If you're listening to this, just know that I'm being very careful. I'm trying to be very careful in what I say here. Weeks in to this case, I could not get any action. Like, and this wasn't this wasn't a thing where like action could be delayed. I needed the caseworker to pay for a service that they just weren't pushing anywhere. And I was calling, I was doing all these things. I I'm I am like whatever, I'm telling too many details. What ends up happening? And I still have not heard from the Guardian at Lightem because she was brand new, she was a little baby guardian at Lightem. She had never done this before, I had never done this before, we had never done this before. Yeah, um, I call. I and you know, like always you wait, like the caseworker is gonna call you. Yeah, guardian at Lightham, the guardian of Lyme's gonna call you. That like all these people are gonna introduce themselves to you after you get this case, right? Ideally, ideally, yeah. No, ma'am. Yeah, Rebecca Harvin calls. Rebecca Harvin calls and leaves a message and says, My name is Rebecca Harvin. I have these children in my home. I have been told that you are our guardian at Lightem, and I need you to return my call immediately. She does.
unknown:Good.
SPEAKER_01:And I say this information again. And I was like, I do not know what you need to do. But this is like, and I'm very sorry that this is the first version of me that you are going to see, that you are getting to see. But it doesn't matter to me anymore because this movement is not happening. And so when I get into that space, God help us all. God help the other person. And she matches my energy in this phone call in a way that is a literal gift. She matches, she goes, What is happening? Excuse me? And it's her first, Andrew. She's she's a baby, she's never done anything. She just finished training. You know what I mean? Like she's just like, what even can a guardian that lightem do? And I was like, I don't know what a guardian that lightem does because I didn't need one last time. But you're about to go figure it out, is what you're gonna do. You're about to go figure it out. And she was like, I'm about to go figure it out. I'm like, yeah, you are.
SPEAKER_03:That's amazing.
SPEAKER_01:And court is like in a couple days. Um that court is the it's an experience uh again of like my whole like this this is how this whole case goes. For the first time ever, a judge never doesn't look at me and says, like, hey, what do you need? What do the kids do?
SPEAKER_03:Oh my oh my gosh, I've never seen that.
SPEAKER_01:Thank you. I've we've never seen this. Never again has this ever happened. Wow. But in that particular one, when we're banging on every door, our guardian line is banging on every door, and we can't get this thing paid. The judge doesn't ask me what I need or what the kids need. And he's about to close the case. And Andrea, I raised my hand in court and I said, excuse me, your honor.
SPEAKER_00:Oh my goodness. Oh, good for you.
SPEAKER_01:I need you guys to understand that this does not happen in court. No, this does not hurt. And he looks at me and he goes, Yes. And I said, I'm the caregiver, and I think you forgot to ask me if I had something to say. And he was like, And our guardian at line of his across, and she's looking at me and she's like, get it, uh-huh, go. Like, um he goes, Do you need to say something? And I said, Yeah, I do need to say something. I need this bill paid, and it's not being paid, and I can't schedule this appointment, like whatever. And the judge whips around to, and I say it, you know, business profession, but with that tone, yeah, like with this, like, uh-huh, I've done it. I've done everything that I can. I have asked every question that I can. The guardian at Lightham has been working on this, and we still cannot get this paid. And he whips around to the caseworker and he's like, Is that true? And the caseworker is like, uh, and he goes, get it paid now, within 24 hours.
SPEAKER_00:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
SPEAKER_01:That starts this case, like that that starts this, like where I learn that a guardian at LiDum is my best friend in court. Yeah. Like that I where I learned that when nobody else is advocating for kids, that a guardian at Lightham has a voice, and they stand in front of that judge with that voice, and their reports matter. Yeah. And and where that case goes matters for the best interest of the kid, and nobody else there, not a single person, not even the foster parent, if I'm being really honest, because we have so many emotions tied into the work that we're doing, right? Our heart is good, our intention is good, our all of that stuff. I think the ones that I've met, um what am I trying to say?
SPEAKER_03:A vested You're more emotionally involved than anyone else.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, we're more emotionally involved than anybody else. Vested interest is the word that I'm looking for in the outcome, right? And so to have a garden at light in there, that's like I am seeing this clearly. And I am, I'm not involved in any other way other than other than this, is just it's just an incredibly beautiful thing. I love it so much. I love a good garden at lightum. Yeah. And I love that you are one. I love that, I love that kids have you advocating for them. What's your favorite part of being a garden at lightum?
SPEAKER_03:My favorite part is visitation, the time that I actually spend with the children. Um so once a month, we're every 30 days, we're required to see the child in person, face to face. And we usually spend about an hour, sometimes a little bit more. And then often we're invited to birthday parties and other things. So we'll see them more than that, but at least once a month, every 30 days, we're face to face with this child, and we just spend time with them and play with them. I have this like bag of games and fidgets and things that I bring with me, and we just pull things out of the bag and spend time together. Um, and at this point, I've experienced, you know, visitation with infants all the way up to teenagers. And it's just really um that's just the best part sitting face to face with a child. One visitation that stands out is um a visitation that I was on this case just briefly filling in for someone. I wasn't able to follow it. I really wanted to, but it didn't work out. Um, this teenager, they were like, they probably won't talk to you. They probably won't talk to you, they don't talk to anybody. But they sat down with me and they had questions. We were, it was right before summer. And um, we were talking about what are your plans, what are you gonna do? He was this person who was old enough to have a job, and so we're like, let's look for a job. And we just spent the time we were sitting there looking for the places around there within walking distance that he was old enough to apply for. Um, and so it's that that's my favorite part. You never know exactly what's gonna happen at visitation, but it's always, always fun.
SPEAKER_01:Um, do you have a favorite age?
SPEAKER_03:Um, you allowed to say, you know, I I always thought that teens would terrify me. Um, and I have to say, before I had to do visitation with teens, I went back to the um training center where we do video, watch our training videos, and every year we renew our training. And I found some videos on interacting with teens because it just does not come naturally to me. Um, so they're probably my least favorite just because they're the hardest for me to connect with. I prefer, you know, like elementary school. That's probably the easiest.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah, like third grade fourth grade. Yeah, yeah. Where they have their own mind and their own personality and they don't have a filter yet. Yes. They're really funny, but they still want to please you and like all of that stuff. Third, fourth grade is the best. Yeah, that'd be my okay. But like, shout out to teens though. Teens are teens are awesome.
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I'm learning that. I'm learning that, yeah.
SPEAKER_01:I didn't know, like, I mean, I knew from like my young adult work that I did. I worked with I worked with a lot of teenagers in my young adult, so I was basically still a teenager myself.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Um, and then I went through a season where like whatever. Um, I didn't like anybody else's kids except for mine because I had too much happening inside of my own home. Um and we're entering teenage years, like middle school teenage and with my kids. And so I'm getting to be around all of their teenage friends, and um, they're so cool. Yeah. Teenagers are funny, yeah. And teenagers in foster care, they don't hold punches. Like they tell you, I'm sure. Like they are like, well, this is what I think about this. Yeah. And that can be alarming. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03:That could be like, you gotta have thick skin.
SPEAKER_01:I don't know what to do about this. But like really, it's it is. Um, yeah. Anyhow, um, is there any question that I haven't asked that you wish that I would have asked about being a guardian ad lightum? Or is there anything you want to talk about that we didn't cover?
SPEAKER_03:Yeah, I just wanted to close with um, if you're interested, there's a lot of information online. And so if you just type in G A L for Guardian Adlium or C-A-S-A for court appointed special advocate, you'll the first hit that comes up is going to be the nationalcasa slash gal dot org website. And you can learn more there. You can click through to the state that you're in to get the specifics on where to go to find ways to donate or volunteer.
SPEAKER_01:That's great. Um, and then I'm sure they always need volunteers. Always, always. And kids are always gonna be in foster care, so there's always gonna be a need for this. Um, it's 12 to 15 hours per caseload. Yep. Per month. Per month, very doable, and it will change your life.
SPEAKER_02:Yes.
SPEAKER_01:And this is our billboard for go go do something. Yes, and this is an easy entry point that um will break your heart, yeah, but will change your life and will open your eyes to um a different part of the world than we have ever experienced. Most of us, yeah, right. Um I just think it's like I just think it's a really special thing to be with kids on the worst days of their life. Yeah. And in the worst parts of their story. Um and to be able to guide them through that is just really amazing. So at the end of every episode, we do a lightning round. Um, I'm gonna ask three questions, answer as fast as you can. Lightning speed. Okay. Okay. What's on your nightstand right now?
SPEAKER_03:Oh, um so it's very clean because this summer I put a bookshelf right next to my bed. Oh, I got rid of my dresser, put a bookshelf, and now all the books that were always on my book and on my nightstand are now on a bookshelf. So my nightstand only has a salt lamp and this cute little frog in a yoga pose.
SPEAKER_01:That's brilliant. Yeah, that's brilliant. And do you feel so comforted having a books like a bookshelf right by your bed?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, it's the last thing I see every night, and I love it.
SPEAKER_01:It's I cannot over-emphasize the comfort level of books.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_01:Same. Okay. Um, I'm always intrigued by who has a clean nightstand and who has a dirty nightstand or who has whatever's piled. Okay, second thing. What books or podcasts are you really loving right now?
SPEAKER_03:Okay. So my I'm always reading everything, but my escape is murder mysteries, and I am waiting anxiously for the next Louise Penny murder mystery. I think it's called the White Wolf. It's like 18 or 19 in this series that I've just been hooked on for the last three years. It comes out in a few weeks, and I can't wait.
SPEAKER_01:Is it like an adult Nancy Drew? Like, is this like so much better?
SPEAKER_03:But a yes, adult, adult, but it is so good. The characters are amazing.
SPEAKER_01:Well, I just mean like it's the same author, and you're like 18 or 19 in the series. So this feels like a Nancy Drew, like our equivalent of elementary Nancy Drew. Did you read Nancy Drew as a kid?
SPEAKER_03:Yes, I did.
SPEAKER_01:Okay. Um, it's always the really good people that love a murder mystery. Yeah. It's the people that like need a need a villain or like uh the need some darkness because they don't inherently have darkness.
SPEAKER_00:Okay.
SPEAKER_01:It's just an observation, but it doesn't surprise me that you love a murder mystery because you don't have a ton of darkness to your personality. It brings all my darkness up. It does. It actually does. Um okay, murder mysteries, and then what else? Any podcasts that you're loving?
SPEAKER_03:Um I let's see. I I like the podcast that Nurtured First is putting out. It's called Robot Unicorn. Um, it's excellent. It's all about parenting with a focus on attachment and research-based parenting practices. It's really good.
SPEAKER_01:Last question: What is bringing you joy right now?
SPEAKER_03:Um, I would say new friends, like conversations with new friends. Lately, I've had some new people come into my life. I've been pursuing new friendships, and that's bringing me joy.
SPEAKER_01:Oh, I have a thousand more questions, but I always do. So on that note, thanks so much for being on the podcast, Andrea. It was an absolute pleasure. I hope that if you're listening to this, that you hear that it's possible to advocate for kids. And um, I think that I think Andrea did such a great job of showing us that. So love it. Love you. Thanks for being around.
SPEAKER_03:Love you too. Thanks.