Bringing Both Feet in for Love with Kavita Sarmah | RDID Ep. 103

This conversation is a heartfelt and intimate discussion between two individuals, Kavita Sarmah and her partner, about their experiences with mental illness and their journey towards a healthy and fulfilling relationship. Kavita shares her childhood experiences of growing up in an abusive home and the impact it had on her mental health, particularly her anxiety. She emphasizes the importance of therapy in her healing process and learning to have empathy for her own needs. The conversation also touches on Kavita's aversion to video calls and the challenges they faced in their long-distance relationship. The essay, 'Bringing Both Feet in Love and Mental Health,' written by Kavita, explores her journey of self-discovery, therapy, and finding love with her partner. It highlights the significance of investing time in making a healthy and warm life for oneself.

https://www.instagram.com/kavitasarmah/

Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.

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Transcript

Gabe Nathan: GN 

Kavita Sarmah: KS 

00:00 

Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth. I'm your host, Gabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. We are happy to have you here. On today's show, we have a real treat. We are gonna be speaking to mental health advocate and my wife, Kavita Sarmah, about her struggle with PTSD, anxiety, and about how she has managed to bring both feet in and fall in love. Each week, we'll bring you a Recovery Diaries contributor. 

00:28 

folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through essay or video format. We want to see where they are on their mental health journey since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what has shifted, what has changed, and what new things have emerged. We are so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at recoverydiaries.org. 

00:58 

There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment, and change. You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast, episode, essay, or film. And you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes, and grow. And of course, make sure to like, share, and subscribe. 

01:29 

GN: Kavita Sarmah, thank you so, so much for being here on Recovery Diaries in Depth.  

KS: Thank you for having me.  

GN: It's delightful to have you on the podcast and even more delightful to be married to you. It's been seven days. Did you know that?  

KS: Oh, I did not know that.  

GN: Yeah, it's the 10th. We married on the third.  

KS: It's been the loveliest seven days.  

GN: Oh my God. 

01:57 

KS: There has been some stomach poisoning.  

GN: Yeah.  

KS: There has been a lot of whitefish salad.  

GN: Not enough whitefish salad. If we would ask you.  

KS: Yep. That's true.  

GN: Yeah. But yeah, a little bit of stomach drama, but we got through it.  

KS: Lots of cuddles.  

GN: Yeah. It's just the loveliest thing. And you know, for a few years, we really weren't able to cuddle.  

KS: Yeah. 

02:26 

GN: Because you were what 11,000 miles away in India?  

KS: A long distance relationship.  

GN: Yeah. And that was both hard and easy.  

KS: Yeah, I agree.  

GN: I mean, for me, oftentimes it felt like we were in the same room all the time. It was really just during all of the immigration stuff that it was difficult because there were things that, like papers that I needed to fill out and you were asleep or things that you were doing and I was asleep or doing something else and the time difference, that's when it became hard for me. Do you think so?  

KS: Yeah, I think so. I think, how long have we been in a long distance relationship like?  

GN: Gurl, since like 1471.  

KS: Yeah. But it's, you know. People say all the time that it's so difficult to be in a long distance relationship, but I just did not feel that way at all. It was so easy and lovely and I felt like you were present all the time in my life. And the immigration process was the first time that I was like, oh my God, I wish he was here and we could go through it together because it was so stressful. So, yeah. 

03:55 

GN: And now, and there's still some things to do, and now we can do it together in the same time zone, in the same house. And that's just the loveliest thing. And I love you.  

KS: I love you.  

GN: We both live with mental illness. We both cray bonnees. Yeah, that's true. Can you talk a little bit about your experience with mental illness and what - how that kind of manifested for you early on?  

KS: I grew up in an abusive home. So my father was very mentally abusive. And it was chaos all the time in my house. And I don't think I've ever had a moment in childhood where I felt safe and just relaxed. So my body has always been you know, known to be anxious. So I now have PTSD and I've been in therapy for it for a long time and anxiety is one of the biggest things that I deal with and it shows up everywhere in my life. Like even sitting here, I'm so anxious, you know. And yeah, it shows up everywhere 

05:24 

relationships with my sisters everywhere. So yeah, anxiety is one of the main things that I deal with, I think.  

GN: And I mean, I know some of the answers to this, but I want to hear you talk about it for our listeners. How do you live with it? How do you live with the symptoms with the memories with things that are triggering to you with things that these mental health challenges kick up. I hear people talk about all different kinds of strategies or I have a wellness toolkit that I open up and I kind of dive into and take out this and that that helps me. What helps you function from day to day?  

KS: I think therapy was one of the main turning points in my life with my mental health because before that I was really lost. I just felt all these feelings, really hard feelings all the time and I just did not know how to be functional. Once I got in therapy and met with a lovely therapist that immediately you know just fit with me. 

06:47 

I was able to have more empathy for the feelings that I felt all the time, and empathy for how difficult normal things were for me. Things have always been really difficult for me, like sitting in a classroom has been really difficult. I feel really anxious with people around. Going on a... 

07:16 

you know, getting on a train has been really stressful for me. And I've always felt very lost, like, why is it so hard for me and not for everybody else? But having empathy and learning more about where it comes from, it helps me. And I learned that in therapy. So I, you know, that's one of the main sort of 

07:45 

tools that I use day to day is to just have empathy for the feelings that I'm feeling and yeah, not be too hard on myself. Yeah.  

GN: Prior to therapy, was that a thing for you? A kind of internal self-criticism or berating yourself? Why the fuck can't I do these simple things and what the hell, what is wrong with me? Why can't I?  

KS: Yeah. I mean, you know. Of course it was like an inner dialogue that I had, you know, why can't I do these simple things and I'm so stupid and I'm anxious all the time and nobody else is. But it was also the voice of my father and it was the voice of the caretaker that I grew up with. You know, they would say those things to me and it was the voice of the teachers and my 

08:46 

would bully me about being too anxious, too nervous, too fidgety. So yeah, I carried all of that for a long time till I got in therapy and my therapist is lovely and it was just a really helpful thing to learn where it comes from and have empathy. 

09:15 

GN: I have a question about therapy for you, personally. Do you feel that there was a time where you knew you needed it, but didn't get it? Do you know what I mean? Was there like a span of time between you going, I really should be in therapy, but there was something holding you back from taking the step to reaching out or was it very quickly?  

KS:I don't think so because I think, you know, when I was living with my father and in that I didn't even think of therapy. I did not even know that was a resource for me. It was only when I got out of that house and I moved to the city, I moved to Bombay. That's when I started living with my sister and I was talking to a friend and they were talking about going to therapy. And that's when I kind of... 

10:14 

found out about therapy and as soon as I did I knew that I wanted to try it because I was just struggling so much. So I don't think I've ever had like a block. I had like an immediate oh I want this, you know.  

GN: And was it helpful right away?  

KS: I felt very heard and seen right away. It was helpful, like, gradually, but in the beginning it was a lot of talking, it was a lot of learning about what's happening in life, what's happening inside me, and it was the first time that I really got to talk about all of that. So, yeah. 

11:04 

GN: Can you talk to me a little bit about how your PTSD and your anxiety impacts your relationships with others? Either your sisters or romantic partners, friends? 

11:24 

KS: In the beginning, I felt like I was really needy. I felt like I had a lot of needs because, oh, I can't go here because it'll make me anxious. I can't do this because it will make me anxious. And, oh, this is too overstimulating. My sister would make plans and I'd... My sister loves giving, like planning surprises for me. And she would plan these surprises, but surprises made me so nervous. 

11:54 

made me want to cry. So she planned this surprise for me and I would just cry. I'd just be like, why did you do that? And she just wouldn't understand because I did not have the language to explain why it was so hard for me, such a joyful gesture. But once I learned why I was feeling the way that I did, I think I realized that 

12:23 

I think I reframed that sort of idea I had about myself. Oh, I'm really needy. I think that's not true. I think everybody has needs, but there are people who don't know how to express them or don't think that they should express their needs. And I think therapy taught me to express my needs. 

12:52 

in a safe place with my loved ones. And so I am very open with my loved ones about the needs that I have because I know them so well. These things are okay. These things will make me really anxious. These things are very overstimulating. So can we work around it? A surprise is lovely. And I understand that you want to make me... 

13:22 

happy and you want to give me a gift and you know give me joy but it's specifically won't give me joy because of the person that I am but here is how you can give me joy. Yes. You can do this. I love this you know and I'm also more I think open to other people's needs. I like to kind of sit with my loved ones be like you know you're not 

13:51 

talking about your needs, but what do you need here? Do you like this? Do you not like this? Because I don't want to know. So I think that's one main thing that comes up over in a virgin with my loved ones that has to do with my, you know, mental illness. So yeah, I don't know if that answers your question.  

GN: It did. And it made me think of something that I wanted to say to you. Okay. That you're helping me so much getting more comfortable expressing my needs because I'm very much, it's uncomfortable for me and it's not a familiar thing and it's not always felt like a safe thing for me to do and I just wanted to thank you for, you're such a beautiful person, but such a beautiful example for me to look up to. And no, it's true, Bonnee, to say I can take space here also. I have needs. And you know, that my partner, even though she is dealing with a lot of things that I don't, our needs are both valid. 

KS: Yeah and we talked about this recently how that comparison doesn't really make sense. Oh, you have had hashtag more trauma.  

GN: Right, right. And so... You get to sit in this seat, you're in the front row.  

KS: Yeah, your needs are all that we talk about. And then my needs or the things that I feel, we kind of, you know, put on the back burner.  

GN: Because they're less valid.  

KS: Yeah.  

GN: Yeah, that's not...  

KS: That's not... That's unfair.  

GN: And unhealthy.  

KS: Yeah.  

GN: And I just want to be healthy with you. 

15:50 

KS: I want to be be healthy with you.  

GN: Especially in the stomach realm. Yeah. So I'm glad we're there now. My God almighty. One of the things, you know, you were talking about feeling needy, you know, earlier on in your life and oh, you know, Kavita has so many needs and I can't do this and I can't do that. And one of the early things that I learned about you in our long distance relationship is that Kay doesn't do video calls.  

KS: Yeah. 

16:20 

GN: Can you talk a little bit about what that's about? Because I think for some people, particularly in a long distance relationship, we had not met in person. When we first started being romantically involved, first became friends and then became romantically involved. So we had not occupied the same physical space. I think some people might be like, oh, I'm...this person doesn't do video calls and I, you know, I don't know about this. But I never, for an instant, I just wanted to be with you. And that was just, you know, Kay doesn't do video calls. Okay, we found it.  

KS: It's kind of a red flag. I mean, if my friend was like, I'm dating this person who lives in another country, they don't do video calls. 

17:17 

Yeah, I'd be like, um, I think there's something going on there.  

GN: Yeah,  

KS: But I'm glad you were open to that because It is one of the you know, sort of irrational. I mean my therapist would say it's not a rational, you know It is rational, but it's it sounds pretty irrational, you know video calls; I don't know. It's it. It's one of those things that make me feel really out of control. 

17:47 

And I just cannot, I almost dissociate when I'm on a video call for some reason. Even getting into this building you had to like, you know, put in the security camera. And you were on video and you were like, oh, he'll get to see who I, you know, who's on, who's at the door. And I was just like, oh my God, there’s video?  

GN: Yeah, hide.  

KS: So something about seeing myself and knowing that the other person is seeing me through a camera and you know I have to make sure the audio is right, I have to make sure the video is right, oh the internet can go in and out and there's so much happening and for some reason it just sends me spiraling. And if I'm really like, I will do it when I'm in a good space, mental space, and I feel like trying new things, you know, video calls. But sometimes, most times, it just helps me get things done if we can do it another way, you know, like in-person meeting or email or text or something else. Yeah, it's one of those things, one of those anxiety things. 

19:12 

GN: And I guess the thing about it is that all of these things are navigable. There's no need to force someone, especially someone who's living with mental health challenges, to be like, you have to do this. Whether it's in a job situation, well, you can't work here if you don't do video calls or in a romantic situation.  

KS: Yeah, which I've experienced before, the job and the romantic. 

19:41 

GN: There's workarounds and that's about having empathy for yourself to be able to ask for that and say, this is what I need and the other person having empathy also. And if I didn't, I would have just missed out on the loveliest thing.  

KS: That's cute.  

GN: Anyway, why don't we talk about the loveliest thing, which you wrote about recoverydiaries.org some time ago. Your essay, your beautiful essay is called Bringing Both Feet in: Love and Mental Health and I would love it if you would read it for us. 

20:26 

KS: Your flight has been delayed another hour. Not the sweetest thing to hear when you're at the airport on time for a flight that has already been delayed a few times since you booked it. It's especially unsweet when your partner who you're about to meet in person for the first time has already arrived to an unfamiliar Indian city in the middle of the night. It's funny that I'm coming from Pennsylvania and getting there before you. He texts you. 

20:54 

Your friend arranges for a local cab to take him to the Airbnb. He meets your friends before you. He unpacks alone in a room you will soon share, takes a shower and opens a window. He sends you photos of many a passerby, a fruit seller, men talking on their cell phones, slow yellow ambassadors. You finally get on your flight from Bombay and land in Kolkata. 

21:21 

You and your sisters meet at the airport and take a taxi to the Airbnb. You have time to think. You have never not used time to think. 

21:32 

It's funny how, just as you somewhat start to identify as an avoidantly attached person, you fall in love with someone in a different country and bravely decide to spend your life with them. You are utterly joyful in your own company and not looking for a partner one moment, and suddenly in the sweetest, warmest little relationship the next. Your sisters chat away about the mundane. You sit in the corner half-listening. 

21:59 

Half covered in clouds of bright, bright excitement and multicoloured anxiety. Cars, people and bushy green trees become a blur outside the car windows 

22:12 

Gabe and I met on Instagram. He found something I made online and I found something he made online and we found each other. I remember making a post on Instagram about a suicide prevention documentary that he created and him messaging to thank me for my kind words about the film. I remember emails upon emails upon emails. I remember admiring him platonically. 

22:37 

I couldn't possibly fall in love and expect anything from this person who lived in a completely different country. We couldn't possibly fit in each other's worlds. He was in the middle of the big and smalls of his life. I was in the middle of post-traumatic stress disorder and the upheaval it brought. Well, not all of my life is PTSD, but it does have a significant impact on how I function. I have always dated. 

23:06 

seriously and casually. I have always talked to people and told them that I liked them. I have made them hand-drawn crosswords and oil paintings and bought leather jackets and gone to sleep with them and watched them make morning coffee and late night noodles and shared silly stories at coffee shops and gone on drives with the windows down and sat at a lake and on a flight and introduced them to my sister and walked into bookshops, grocery stores and seasides. 

23:35 

I have always loved connecting with the human-human parts of someone. And in one way or another, I have loved and been loved. And yet, for some reason, every time I have imagined the grand scheme of my life, I have found myself by myself. Whenever I have sat down, closed my eyes, and imagined an older Kavita, I have seen a small early morning apartment. 

24:04 

music playing from some room, a kettle on the stove, swirly steam fogging up a closed kitchen window. I have imagined an older Kavita; bringing out a single cup, one plate, one pastry. I have imagined reading Mary Oliver in the living room by myself, curtains swaying from side to side. Even in the middle of sweet and promising relationships, I have visualized myself peaceful, small, and alone. 

24:34 

I have never wanted to call it commitment phobia, because that is just so simplistic. But even in my moments of brave loving, I imagine there has been some fear. Fear that kept me at a manageable level of commitment or love or relationship-ness. A protective part of my brain that said, hey, you're feeling too much. This is not safe. Back away. This is not small. 

25:03 

This is big and dangerous. So I have backed away time and time again. 

25:10 

There was something extraordinary about how I felt around Gabe. In emails, photographs and voice messages. Maybe it was the years in therapy or endless self-work or just the sparkly mumbo jumbo of the universe. But when I fell in love with Gabe, I slowly brought both my feet into our little world and let go of my desperate grip at the hinges of the door. 

25:37 

As much as I would like to believe it was the crashing of the stars in some galaxy or that Mercury was upside down at the right time, I think I see why Gabe and I fit so wonderfully together. I started going to therapy about six years ago. I was 20 years old, extremely moody and numb at the same time, struggling to sleep, struggling to feel. 

26:06 

evaluations later, I was diagnosed with PTSD and a few other vague, less significant yet fun things. To be honest, therapy and childhood trauma were both equally life-changing for me. Only that therapy took the pieces that scattered from a childhood storm and slowly started putting them together. We worked on Kavita in my therapist's office. But 

26:34 

I believe more than the work in the office, therapy showed me a way to continually work on myself throughout life. You see, it is hard for children in dysfunctional homes to grow up without any scars. Childhood is a delicate and powerful time. My childhood did not make me a self-assured, optimistic and emotionally healthy person. I grew up utterly scared of everything and endlessly protecting myself. I carried that into my adulthood. 

27:05 

I'm terrified of everything still. So wandering into a young adult's world by myself, I felt colorblind. The red flags and green flags all looked the same. So naturally my brain went, let's stay away from everything just in case it's a red flag. I spent month after month, year after year, learning about Kavita. She wants a small life. 

27:31 

She does not want to own a car or a house or jewelry. She wants to write and draw and be close to nature. Kavita is afraid of animals, but would like to work on that fear and adopt a dog one day. She would like a fancy coffee machine in her home. She does not want to birth or adopt children. She is not very sure about marriage. She would like to emancipate herself from her mentally abusive father. 

28:01 

She needs the space to be afraid of what scares her. Authenticity matters to her. She would like to be in a long-term relationship with someone who makes her feel warm, peaceful, and safe. I started to notice what makes me run away, what helps me stay, what hurts and destroys my mental health and what feels like nourishment. Through therapy and self-work, I realized I was not mentally colorblind. 

28:30 

I was uneducated when it came to emotional intelligence. So, I sat with myself and continued to teach and learn and notice and understand. I met Gabe at a time when I was deeply invested in my well-being. Gabe met me while he was deeply invested in making a healthy and fulfilling life for himself, a decade into therapy. I believe this was the sparkly mumbo jumbo of the universe. 

28:59 

I brought my post-traumatic growth, debilitating anxieties and a melting pot of needs that stem from trauma. He brought his emotional resources, long-standing depression and more anxiety. We built a metaphorical table to put everything on, where it could be poured over and discussed. Not only was there warmth, love and understanding, but there was instantly a mutual need to make 

29:28 

nourishing an honest life together. Because we were both individually working on ourselves, when Gaben and Kavitha came across each other, they recognized the green flags with clarity. And if such a thing as the right time exists at all, this was it. Marriage, the epitome of a long-term relationship, has always been like Indian classical music to me. I appreciate it, but it does not move me. 

29:58 

The only difference is that I have never had reoccurring dreams about running away from Indian classical music. It is funny how scary something as simple as loving someone and spending your life with them can look to a traumatized brain. And subconsciously, I did carry that fear of making a home with someone, not checking the weather, leaving my raincoat at home, running out in the sun and in the rain. 

30:26 

But when Gabe and I talked about spending our lives together for the first time in my life, it moved me. Because there was space here to be human, an environment that encouraged me to be wholly Kavita, my fear brain could quiet down enough for me to experience what it feels like to truly love and be loved by someone. 

30:52 

Meeting someone who understood mental health and was committed to building a safe, fulfilling, and healthy life together was a significant piece in my progress as a person with trauma. I don't think in the push and pull of life things, we realize how little we know about ourselves. Why do we like the people that we like? Why do we stay in places and with people that are eating away at our joy and sense of self? 

31:22 

Why is it so hard to be honest with ourselves and our loved ones? After years of therapy and self-work, sometimes I still find myself to be somewhat of a mystery. But I have noticed how much closer I have gotten to understanding this familiar person in the mirror. I have noticed myself advocating for her, rooting for her, helping and loving her. 

31:49 

I have started to ask more questions, driven to meet her needs and make a sweet, small, warm life for her to live in. When Gabe, an emotionally intelligent and warm person, came along, I was in touch with myself enough to see in him a lovely partner. I knew I had to bring both my feet in and let go of my desperate grip at the hinges of the door. I felt held, seen, and entirely accepted. 

32:20 

Could it have happened without therapy and years of self-work? I don't believe so. It's a shame that I don't want a wedding because if I did, I'm pretty sure the only person getting a wedding speech would have been my therapist. If not for her, I'm not sure if I would have invested time into making a healthy life for myself. I'm not sure I would have known the difference between green and red. 

32:47 

If this essay is for anything, I think it's to encourage you, dear reader, to invest time in making a healthy and warm life for yourself. If you haven't been in therapy yet, I think it is an immensely helpful way to learn how to take care of yourself and meet your own needs. I realized that there are a myriad ways to work on oneself. This was an important resource for me. 

33:16 

It's a wonderful little thing to know your reds and greens. The taxi ride ends and you get to your destination. Your partner opens his arms and holds you in the sweetest embrace. Your sisters meet him. They fall in love with him immediately. You sit together on an Airbnb bed one midnight and you ask him, hey, do you want to propose to me now? He smiles, holds your hand and slips a ring onto your finger. 

33:46 

Kisses, words, sleep. You celebrate at a lovely restaurant with your sisters the next day. There is a pastry, there are forks and candles, there is a sparkly mumbo jumbo of the universe, and there is love. So much love. 

34:02 

Fin.  

GN: Fin and beginning. All at the same time, I love you.  

KS:I love you.  

GN: So, so much. And it's really difficult to know what to say after hearing that and remembering and thinking about things that I wasn't there for, everything that you experienced growing up and everything that brought you to this place. And I'm also thinking, Kay, about the things that we have done together in order to be together and all of the things that you have done since we landed on August 27th, which is just a further letting go of those door hinges. You know, that's how I see it. I was particularly thinking about the part where you're talking about, you know, Kay doesn't want to own a car, Kay doesn't want to own a house. She's afraid of animals. And you know, you come home and here's this long-haired German shepherd.  

KS: Yeah, I live with a German shepherd now.  

GN: Yeah, I mean, what the hell is that?  

KS: I think it's so hopeful for me to realize that, you know, I'm still scared. I'm still really, really anxious. But I'm able to do a lot of things while being scared and anxious. You know, like I wrote in the essay about wanting to have a dog but being so scared and wanting to have a relationship that's long term but being so scared. And you know, even the children, you know, you have children. I do. That I think are so lovely and I get to live with them and get to learn. 

36:15 

about them and get to love them and get to learn that. There's so many things that I have been able to do in spite of fear and anxiety. I woke up this morning and Sadie, the German shepherd, was on the bed. I woke up and she was right there and she was giving me kisses and I just couldn't believe it. 

36:45 

It's not that I am not anxious anymore or that I don't struggle anymore, but I do. But here are the things that I wanted. I have the loveliest partner that I get to live with, that I get to love every day, that I feel so safe and secure with, so happy with. It's right here. Everything. 

37:14 

you know, that I wished for. And anxiety is here, and fear is here, and it all can be done. You know, it's not that I need to be completely unafraid to do it. And that's really hopeful for me to realize in this moment after reading that essay that I wrote a few years ago. No? 

37:44 

GN: I think it’s the lovliest thing. And I, you know, not to bring cars into it, but you know that I can't not do that. But it's almost like the anxiety and the fear have just been kind of gently nudged out of the driver's seat. And there may be, maybe riding shotgun or maybe even sitting in the back of the car. There, they're there. But my bonnee is driving. 

38:14 

KS: Yeah.  

GN: I mean, you can't actually drive.  

KS: I will never be driving in real life because that's another anxiety of mine.  

GN: But in our sweet little metaphor, you're driving this car.  

KS: Yeah.  

GN: And it's the loveliest thing.  

KS: It's very hopeful.  

GN: And I hope that it's hopeful for other people too, who are living with challenges - that might be driving now - to say, maybe with some work and some insight and some support and empathy from self and others, maybe I can drive one day.  

KS: Yeah. Because one of the things that I kept hearing all the time was like, you know, what are you doing with your anxiety? When is it going to go away? You know, and I felt that about myself. I felt like, you know, when am I not going to be anxious? When are video calls going to be normal for me? When is going to a train station that's really crowded going to be like normal for me, like other people? And I think it's important to remember that I don't think the goal is to not be anxious. The goal is to get to a place where you can do brave things while being anxious and get to the kind of end of that and be like, oh, I did it. I mean, I was still anxious as hell and maybe I will have diarrhea later, but you know, I did it.  

GN: It always comes back to that.  

KS: Yeah. So yeah, that's, that's an important thing for me to remember. I think that I will always maybe have that, but I will still do things in spite of that.  

GN: You're one of the bravest people I know.  

KS: Bonnie.  

GN: I love you. 

40:11 

And I'm so grateful to you for being here on Recovery Diaries in Depth and for being here in my life. 

40:22 

KS: I never know what to say to sweet miu-mius. I'm just sitting here like, oh.  

GN: Well then that's it. And I can't wait to have lunch with you.  

KS: Yeah. I can't wait to have pork ribs.  

GN: Let's go do that. Thank you so much for joining and thank you so much for listening. 

40:49 

GN: Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors. Kavita Sarmah is a freelance writer, a mental health advocate, and queer person. You can find her essay about, well, our story, bringing both feet in love and mental health on our website, recoverydiaries.org. And you can find her at @kavitasarmah on Instagram. 

41:16 

Before we leave you, we want to remind you to check out our website, recoverydiaries.org. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos, and content about mental health, empowerment, and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast, episode, essay, or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. 

41:45 

Until next time, take good care.