Recovery Diaries In Depth

A Christian Mental Health Advocate's Compassion & Empathy | Katie Dale Ep. 105

• Recovery Diaries • Season 1 • Episode 5

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Katie Dale, advocate and author, joins us on Recovery Diaries In Depth to share her powerful journey through mental health challenges and advocacy. Known for her poignant essay "Finding My Faith Despite Losing My Mind," Katie opens up about her experiences since 2017, including her role as a case manager at a nonprofit in Missouri. She discusses the profound connections she has built with individuals facing hallucinations, underscoring the importance of trust and empathy in her work. Now residing in Germany, Katie continues to explore new life chapters, emphasizing recovery's ongoing nature and the transformative power of embracing change.

Our conversation with Katie delves into the profound intersection of faith and mental health, particularly through her experience of losing a child at the onset of COVID-19. This life-altering event prompted deep reflections on spirituality and personal development, highlighting the necessity of evolving one's narrative. We discuss the challenges of balancing personal stories with future possibilities, and the indispensable role of medication and therapy in managing conditions like bipolar disorder. Katie's insights provide a compelling reminder of life's unpredictability and the vital importance of gratitude in the face of uncertainty.

Reflecting on her journey, Katie shares the lessons she wishes she could impart to her younger self, especially the importance of perseverance and extending compassion. We explore the journey toward being less judgmental, understanding others’ beliefs, and fostering empathy in our communities. As we envision a hopeful future, there’s a call for truth and empathy to spread like wildfire, contrasting with the prevailing societal divisions. Through the metaphor of an iceberg, Katie encourages us to see beyond the surface of people's struggles, fostering greater compassion in our daily interactions.

https://katierdale.com/

Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.

https://oc87recoverydiaries.org/

Gabe Nathan:

Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In-Depth. I'm your host, Ggabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. Very happy to have you here. I'm so excited to have our guest, katie R Dale, who wrote an essay for us in around 2017 called Finding my Faith Despite Losing my Mind, katie is an amazing advocate and a writer. She maintains a blog about her disorder on faith at katierdalecom. She's a former behavioral patient and case manager with unique firsthand experience with the mental health care system and the symptoms of mental illness from a faith-based perspective.

Gabe Nathan:

Each week, we'll bring you a Recovery Diaries contributor folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through essay or video format. We want to see where they are on their mental health journey since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what has shifted, what has changed and what new things have emerged. We're so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at recoverydiariesorg. There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment and change.

Gabe Nathan:

You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast episode, essay or film, and you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere. You get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes and grow and, of course, make sure to like, share and subscribe.

Gabe Nathan:

Katie Dale, thank you so much for being here on Recovery Diaries In Depth. It is a delight to see you and have you here as a guest.

Katie Dale:

I'm so just excited to be here. It's amazing to be with you guys. I didn't have any idea that you guys would reach out. This is exciting for me.

Gabe Nathan:

Well, you know, the loveliest thing about this podcast is it gives me an opportunity to reflect. So I've been involved with Recovery Diaries since 2014. And the whole idea behind this show is looking back and looking back into our past essay contributors or people we've made films about, and being curious about learning more about these human beings. Right, because we get this thing, we get this essay from you and it's a snapshot of you at a particular time in your life and that's it, right. It's kind of like watching a movie. You can pop the movie and it might have been made 30 years ago and it never changes. Um, but the actors who were in it change and they grow older or they pass away or whatever. Um, but you're always like, wow, wow, what's different about them now? And that's the whole idea here is bringing people back and checking in with them and seeing what's stayed the same, what's different? Who are you now? Where are you now? So, like hi, who are you now and where are you now? I mean, you're in Germany right? That's where you are physically.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, we are. He's stationed at Ramstein, my husband, so we are at just a beautiful location in the mountains, like a little farm village. It's really small and quiet, but it's surreal. Like every day at 6 pm the chimes from the church just over the hill are chiming and it's like wow, and every morning too they wake me up. So it's like living in a kind of a fantasy of like this is real, but yeah, it doesn't get old at this point it hasn't so far, so it's been really really cool.

Gabe Nathan:

Wow, a little bit different from Florida huh?

Katie Dale:

Yeah, a lot, oh g ood ness, yes.

Gabe Nathan:

So can you take us back to Florida, take us back to 2017, to where you were. What was going on in your life at around the time that we connected to work on your essay?

Katie Dale:

Actually I think I was in Missouri at that time

Gabe Nathan:

Okay.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, we had just been to um, he got stationed over at Whiteman. Then I think we just got there and I had gotten picked up as a kind of a social work position at a nonprofit and I was starting to work there when yep, when you guys reached out to me about confirming the story was going and everything. So it was really another like chapter was opening and I started that job and really loved it, fell in love with that work because I had been an activities director in prior positions in a residential like nursing home type setup before that and that was well, that was a good job for me.

Katie Dale:

I loved the social work. I really. It really fit me for my personality, my background, my experience clinically and it was a very good eye-opening. It really fit me for my personality, my background, my experience clinically and it was a very good eye-opening. I could tell when somebody was struggling with a hallucination and my heart went out to them when I was talking with them and it's just there's nothing like it when you and somebody else, when you're working with somebody and you're like you know that empathy comes out and you're able to connect with that person. It really gives you that rapport to work with them and for them to trust you as their caseworker.

Gabe Nathan:

It was a very influential kind of work that on this website and with your full name attached and you know, going into some descriptions of being very symptomatic in terms of bipolar disorder. Did that give you pause at all? What was that experience like for you thinking about? You know, do I want to do this, do I not want to do this? What are some of the potential consequences?

Katie Dale:

Yeah, you know, actually didn't cross my mind. I didn't flinch because that's who I am, is like you see what you get. And I was writing the book, the memoir that I mentioned in the bio, and I was already working on that. I'm like, yeah, this is my testimony and this is who I am. I did, you know, since then, have grown in certain you know, nuances of like. Well, I don't identify with bipolar to the degree that you know I'm going to go around Like I changed my since changed my blog name, I received Bipolar Brave, and now I'm like, eh, I kind of I made reservations since putting my story out there.

Katie Dale:

I know even now that I want to publish more books and write more and it's like, oh, I need to be strategic because having my memoir published but deliver me from crazy, you know that being the title it's like I was just at a craft fair, like sales show, last weekend and people were looking at my book and I'm like that's really polarizing. I'm thinking to myself like crazy, and I could just see them looking at the word crazy. So, yeah, I've definitely like grown since then and realized, wow, you know, I was all out about it, but there is wisdom to approaching people who aren't as familiar which many people aren't and the general public about these types of things, because it's not just delicate, it's very nuanced, there's so much to it. So I think I've grown since we had my story published on your site and since my book was published.

Gabe Nathan:

So, yeah, so I want to talk about that a little bit more, because I'm so interested in the ways in which people change and the ways in which thoughts and feelings and perspectives and the way in which we present ourselves to the world changes as we get older, and also in the sense that there's room at the table for lots of different ways to talk about things like mental health, like mental illness. I think there's room at the table for people who want to be all out there and big and bold and in your face, and I think there's also room at the table for people who want to be more nuanced, to use your word, about how they approach difficult topics or how they talk about themselves. And can you just talk to me a little bit about your evolution, I guess in the last I don't know six, seven years, about how you think about yourself and how you put yourself out there?

Katie Dale:

Yeah, that's a good question, because I haven't really thought that through.

Gabe Nathan:

That's okay, I'm an external processor, exactly yeah. Let's do it.

Katie Dale:

Yeah. So I guess you know, having been through a lot of therapy and going back to therapy, so we lost our son, my firstborn, in 2020, right at the onset of COVID. That was like.

Gabe Nathan:

Katie, I'm so sorry, I had no idea.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, that's okay. Yeah, thanks. I think that was a different kind of difficult and it grew me as a I felt more like an observer than I was actually going through something, cause, yeah, it was just um a big unexpected thing and I kind of took a lot of lessons from that, of lessons from that. So, um, I guess one of the lessons that I learned was that stuff like that, like I don't know now I'm still thinking about it because I'm sharing it and I'm thinking like that hits like a ton of bricks sometimes when you just drop a bomb. That hits like a ton of bricks sometimes when you just drop a bomb right, and it's like, oh man, you must have felt this, this and this, or oh, so sorry for you. And oh, I can't imagine this. And it's like gosh, I wish I had written my book and I was just thinking about this the other day because I just published my book right before he was born and passed, and I was like, I think in the other day, if I just come out and like told people what was going on more like in the book and just explained it and like broke it down for them instead of going into the immersive experience of what I went through, of experience of what I went through and if I'd process it more for the reader and like it's just so hard to know some still for me what to say and what not to say.

Katie Dale:

I'm still learning. I just I feel like it is. It can get to be a little bit much when I'm learning and growing in other areas and I'm not as focused on the experience side of things. So I've been through, you know, the casework position and saw, you know how I could help people in these, in similar situations, and then I went through, lost my son and went through some other things and just turmoil. But you know growth and maturity and years. And now I'm, I'm onto different things. I'm pivoting in the sense of, like I don't want it to be all about the experience, the experience, the experience. I'd rather be.

Katie Dale:

I'm not very much about experiences as a person, but I'm I'm leaning into what's next, like what's the future have, and for me I sense a deep calling to speak to that, a different, a totally different avenue or arena of God and how he speaks to our hearts through his spirit, which is a totally different segment, a totally different population. But like I just I know there's a lot of overlap there too. I've grown as a person in my walk with Christ and that has just like given me that future forward vision and so I'm also helping other organizations and nonprofits with that kind of tying in the faith and the mental health pieces. But yeah, I just there's little little things that I would change about the book or about like how I used to be so out and about about it. But now I'm growing as a person.

Katie Dale:

I'm looking forward to the next book I'm writing and the potential to reach people about. Well, if you're, you know somebody who's had psychosis and you thought you heard from God, then what's the difference between hearing from God from your heart than hearing him in your head? So I really want to get into that. That's my kind of him in your head. So I really want to get into that. That's my kind of um sweet spot. Where I'm at right now is like that's what I'm working on, that's where I'm living, that's the space I'm in well, it's, it's and I guess this is as I was talking to you before.

Gabe Nathan:

You know, we started recording like this is why we're doing this show, because of the evolution of human beings and because of how many things change and because of what life throws at us. You know, we have no idea what's around the corner and we think we have all of this control and we think we have all of this, all of these plans, and it's all bullshit. You know, we just it really is. And you know, I was even. I was sitting with my wife and we were planning out meals, like for the week, because we're going food shopping later today. We have no idea what's happening this week, but even something as simple as like making that food list, you think you're like controlling and mapping out this week, but even something as simple as like making that food list, you think you're like controlling and mapping out the week, but it can all go out the window at any moment.

Katie Dale:

Go ahead, yeah, so as you were talking about that. It's like I have been on the same dosage of the medicines I'm taking since 2012. For what was that 12 years, and I haven't changed the dosage in that time. Really, I think maybe came off one of the meds and I've been on two meds since then, Once a day, every day, taking my meds. Right, it keeps the symptoms away. I'm thriving. And then I'm like how long is this going to last? Because I know meditations don't always indefinitely work and so, as much as they're still working and as much as I feel stable, I have been noticing like some twitching on my face and I'm like, oh, I hope that's not td tardive dyskinesia yeah yeah, and that would be like not fun.

Gabe Nathan:

But no, td is not fun.

Katie Dale:

No I'll just worry about that when I, if I, if I get to that point. So I'm just, but yeah, like stuff like that and I could be back in the hospital for all we know, like in another few years. Who knows, Heaven forbid. But you know, it's just it's. You don't know what's going to be around the bend.

Katie Dale:

And I'm just so grateful that my faith has been like that underpinning of my life, because ever since I was a little girl, growing up in church and going to youth camps and learning about Jesus, and how much that has impacted me and that seed of faith has grown through me. Um, and then going through life, it's like, whenever it hits the road, you, you, you got to turn to somebody, like, and if God's the only one who's in your head, who knows what's going on in your head, is like you know, like you better have God. Um, it's, it's hard to be alone on that kind of road, especially with bipolar. I don't know how, um, I, I, I don't like saying I don't know how people do it without God, but I, like you know, I acknowledge that like, people do get through without him.

Gabe Nathan:

But for me I don't know if the label is, but I have zero religious interest or beliefs or whatever, and I love talking to all different kinds of people and I love hearing from you and I think it's fascinating how you approach your relationship with your mental health and your relationship with yourself and your relationship with God and your relationship with medical treatment, and you talk about this in your essay a bit. But can you talk a little bit now about? Okay? We got a comment and I'm kind of all over the place.

Gabe Nathan:

We got a comment on a YouTube on a film that we made a couple years ago about a pianist who struggles with anxiety disorder, performance-related anxiety, and he's a concert pianist, like at a very, very high level and someone wrote a comment like you know something to the effect of as soon as this individual realizes that Jesus is the only way, you know they're not going to get better. It was something like that and that that's the only answer is giving yourself over to Jesus, and like that, this guy is always going to be struggling until that happens. And I was thinking actually about you because I knew that this interview was coming up and I was like, well, here's someone who has very strong faith and a very loving and tested loving and tested relationship with faith, but is also on medication, and I just want to hear from you about that. I don't know if it's duality, but about that ability to kind of do both or have both do both or have both.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, yeah, that's, that's, um, definitely um, something I'm passionate about, you know, because, um, there's just different things that you know, different points in my life where, like before I got sick, you know, I was really wanting to know is God real? And I had not known for sure. Like I accepted the Lord Jesus into my heart at five years old. But you know what? Like, what does that mean? Like I felt like he was with me, I felt forgiven of my sins, I felt the weight lifted, but that was a five-year-old perspective.

Katie Dale:

I felt forgiven of my sins. I felt weight lifted, but that was a five-year-old perspective, and when I was 15, I was still. You know, prove to me that you're real. You know, I was at that place where I'm like you know, how do I know? This is all what they say it is. So I went to the Gospel of John and read the Bible, which is god's inspired word. Like um john 14, 6, where he says you know the, the way to god, the father. Um, there is no other way except through me. I'm the way, the truth and life. So that truth piece, though, really really seemed to ground me, because when Jesus claims he's the truth, that's a big statement.

Katie Dale:

So, with that seed planted, going through the following year, not realizing I was going to get sick, with the onset of the bipolar symptoms, I walked into that new environment that year with the big change and the triggering, triggering the symptoms, and I'm like, well, this sucks, like this is a Christian school and going to, you know change from public to private. They call themselves christians, but like where's god? Like this doesn't make sense, they're not being very christian to me, or like you know they, they didn't seem to be showing jesus to me. So, um, the depression set in and I was just like this is a doubt filled my mind. I'm like how can, how can I be a Christian and have Jesus in my heart and I'm feeling like nothing, like the apathy and all the chemical imbalance like of like that zero flat line with the emotions, and yet God lives in my heart, like that doesn't add up, like there's something off. So I went through, you know, that dramatic and traumatic experience with the psychosis and all that in the hospital, and so all that to say it's those hard, hard times was when I actually did feel like once I was my attitude adjusted to be like no, like God's still here. I just have to be still and like recognize him and spiritually, to turn my eyes spiritually to Jesus and like believe him, what he's telling me, that he's with me and he's faithful, what he's telling me that he's with me, that he's faithful, that he's the Lord, that he's my good shepherd, that he's my great physician. All this and it's not a work I do, like it's not in my strength, that I'm pulling myself up by my bootstraps, like it's definitely like just acknowledging him and believing and calling on him on his name. He did the rest, like he showed up, I felt his presence in the hospital. He got me on the right meds.

Katie Dale:

After that, the doctors helped. He worked through the doctors and the science and the pharmaceuticals. I got back on the meds that I needed. I went to good therapists and did the work, put in some effort with therapy, psychotherapy, talk therapy but he provided all those avenues. He put those people in my path.

Katie Dale:

He answered my prayers for that healing that I wanted so desperately and so to me, having that experience gave me that backbone of who I am as a person. Gave me that backbone of who I am as a person that you could never tell me or convince me otherwise that God isn't real, that Jesus isn't alive, because I've already seen his answer to my prayers, specifically for the healing through the medicine and the grace of that. Now, when people say, like you were saying, that the guy was suffering with anxiety, if he had Jesus he wouldn't suffer, I am compelled to and I just wrote a blog post about it on my blog there at katierdalecom like there's so too much accusation and too many assumptions in the church that start from leadership about sin and anxiety being a sin and equating anxiety as a sin is is where I I have to kind of deviate, because that's um, definitely there's a difference between worrying and having like an uncontrollable, like condition.

Gabe Nathan:

A disorder, yeah.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, so where that comes in, it's like I understand, you know it's preached from the pulpit and it's very oh, mental illness is a myth in a lot of circles. Mental illness is a myth in a lot of circles. But you know, that's why I'm still advocating and speaking to churches and the Christian community that there's just, you know, no excuse for condemning people who are suffering from a no-fault condition. So I feel for those people who are being condemned and blamed for their illnesses. It's just something I'm aware of every day when I work with organizations like National Shattering Silence Coalition and Delight and Disorder Ministries. And we're all in those circles aware that, like anosognosia and the lack of insight is a huge piece, and yet I struggle with speaking to and communicating this. But I got to do this some more because I don't think a lot of the church gets it. But that piece of anastomosis is still a barrier for the church, not aware. It's like they aren't aware that people aren't aware or have the insight. So yeah, it gets pretty frustrating for sure.

Gabe Nathan:

And I'm so glad that you wanted to talk about this because I feel like there are so many. There's this statistic from NAMI that says the average length of time between onset of symptoms and a person seeking help treatment is 11 years. That's just the average right. And when I think about that and I think about all the myriad reasons why someone might not want to seek help among those, I think about people who are religious, who may go. You know, if I talk to my faith leader or if I reveal that I'm struggling with, I will be shunned.

Gabe Nathan:

I will not be embraced in this atmosphere of all are welcome or, you know, everyone is welcome here and all of that stuff. It is conditional love. It's not for many. It's not the unconditional love that is preached. It's well if you fall into line with A how we think about marriage, or how we think about sexuality, or if you don't have, you know, x, y and z disorder, yes, we will embrace you and such and such.

Gabe Nathan:

But if you fall out of step, then there's going to be a problem, or at least that can be certain people's perception, and I feel like that can be a barrier to seeking help and I feel like lives can be lost that way.

Gabe Nathan:

And that gets us into the whole other thing about. Well, suicide is a sin and the perception that way. I remember I was doing a suicide awareness event at a Catholic college and a very, very old nun was in tears after the event and I came up to her to talk to her and she said you know, I lost my brother to suicide 52 years ago and we just have to stop this. We have to stop telling people that they're going to hell or that this is a sin. And I look at people like you as you know, you're kind of how change happens. People like you who are walking the walk and talking the talk and living with mental health challenges and also living a life of faith and being open about that and trying to change how that's viewed within the context of faith. That's how change happens, I think. So I just want to recognize that.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, thanks, yeah, I think there is good efforts going on. Yeah, thanks, yeah, I think there is good efforts going on. Fresh Hope for Mental Health is an organization that is very instrumental. They have their Hope Made Strong out of Canada with Laura Howe, and there is Thrive and Cultivate. That's another church leadership mental health summit online and there are people that get it and they're doing the work to you know, send that message.

Katie Dale:

But even while that's happening, like yeah, there's the least of these two that are suffering and not getting the help they need and like what do we do then? So I think I always remember anosognosia, because that is usually why we resist the treatment if we have a mood disorder. So I always want people to be aware of that because it's not well-known, it's not common knowledge, and bringing that up also for the church's sake, like for the church's sake, like that's your, like mission, is your mission field should be like the least of these, like jesus cared for and giving them a cup of water, giving them, visiting them in prison, like going to the hospital for somebody who doesn't realize they're sick is your least of these and that's how you, I feel like we need to really not forget, and I hope that's my hope is that the work and the effort and advocacy I feel called to go in and I really truly believe Jesus is leading the way in and hope that the church follows.

Gabe Nathan:

Well, you've been doing the work for a long time, and I can't think of a nicer way to lead into the essay that you wrote for us a number of years ago now. It is called Finding my Faith Despite Losing my Mind, and I would love it if you would read this aloud for us.

Katie Dale:

That would be great. I can do that, okay. At 24, I was hitting the peak of my young adult life. I was a college grad, enjoying marriage and working my dream job as a graphic designer for a small business in sunny central Florida. Yes, I was living with bipolar 1, diagnosed at the tender age of 16, but I had come a long ways from my three-week stay in the juvenile psych ward. The unpredictability of that memorable stay blindsided me. No one explained to me how traumatic and scarring this experience would be for me and how it would shape my future. I was confused, paranoid, and my arms seemed to always reach forward in a stiff, zombie-like posture. But I came around and believed, through a daily ritual of taking my prescribed medication, that I was healed. I also believed, as a committed Christian, that my stable mental health was a result of answered prayers and claimed Bible verses.

Katie Dale:

In the spring of 2012, my husband and I purchased our first house and moved in, praising God that we were young, first-time homeowners with a beautiful property all of our own. The move put me in a great mood. So great, in fact, that I decided it was time to come off my medications. So great, in fact, that I decided it was time to come off my medications. The sermons from a Southern faithward televangelist to whom I listened at the time confirmed my aspirations for a whole, healthy mind. He prided his ministry on the premise that healing was only dependent on the faith inside oneself. He never communicated explicitly that I go off my medication or address those with mental illness, but to me that didn't seem to matter. All that was required to be healed Enough faith. As my husband and I discussed my plans to taper off my medication, he encouraged me to wait until his month-long trip to Mongolia.

Katie Dale:

That July was over. The call to healing through faith was too loud to ignore. Instead, against my psychiatrist's warning, I tapered off the medicine In my husband's absence. I morphed into a full-blown manic case. My symptoms from eight years before returned, although moments and days of supreme ecstasy. The world of bipolar was alluring and magical Boundless energy, creative ideas, heightened mood, exaggerated optimism and self-confidence. Who wouldn't want to be bipolar? Life was like a movie, and every song I sang or heard was part of the soundtrack.

Katie Dale:

But then the paranoia ensued, stopping me in my tracks of euphoric ecstasy, inferring in my conscience that the FBI was bugging the house, overshadowing my rational mind. After a handful of exasperating online chats with my husband, he returned home to find a manic and maniacal wife. We had argument after argument, so I sought help from our pastor, but the problems and the symptoms stayed. We went to my argument, so I sought help from our pastor, but the problems and the symptoms stayed. We went to my therapist together, but she disregarded my hysterics. Finally, after some sleepless nights and continued dramatic behaviors, I was admitted to the hospital. Funny enough, as a creative type, I had already been working on the first draft of my book, a memoir of my first hospitalization. Little did I know that, eight years later, my story was to earn a part two.

Katie Dale:

Endless nights and days and nights lost in paranoia and manic psychosis. Once admitted to the adult world, the screams down the road from SeaWorld Orlando didn't help at all. I couldn't tell whether they were screams from accelerated amusement park guests or the internal cries of at least half of the psych patients. The first night there slipped seamlessly into days of insomnia. I was experiencing paranoia that kept me from getting sleep, believing my dreams would be extracted and used to manipulate me. I fought to stay awake, and sundown proved most difficult. At first, refusing to take any medication, I now entertained hallucinations and believed I was in the midst of angels and demons and spiritual warfare. My overt manic expressions of improvised songs, rapping and flirtatious witty banter made me feel like the star of the show. Then a messiah complex followed. Banter made me feel like the star of the show and a Messiah complex followed when I prayed for me. I got one.

Katie Dale:

I requested to leave within the first three days, so the hospital conducted a court case and the system permitted my discharge against my psychiatrist's wishes. On the subsequent trip to my cousin's wedding in New York a week later, my husband and I made it through the ceremony, but the drug cocktail hastily prescribed before my discharge quickly lost effect and we were forced to take an impromptu flight back to Florida, where I was readmitted into the hospital again. Despite desperate to win this battle of my sanity versus my misguided judgment, I finally embraced. The staff's medication recommendations. Rounds of group therapy and supervised activities, plus the testing of multiple psychotropic medications, kept my paranoia alive. I was the butt of a cosmic joke and being persecuted for my faith. It didn't seem fair that they could keep me behind locked doors and call me a danger to myself and others, when all I wanted was to get out of this pit. I was being mocked, lined up for the slaughter.

Katie Dale:

Ideas of reference came and enhanced this journey of distorted reality. When a patient named Edward tried to kiss me, I was suddenly Bella Swan from the vampire series Twilight, with the presence of a ropes course in the courtyard and the assimilation of people in a confined unit. I was Katniss Everdeen from the Hunger Games. A bossy blonde girl manipulated and teased me and I morphed into Laura Ingalls, fighting spoiled Nellie Olsen from Little House on the Prairie.

Katie Dale:

The psychosis packed a punch and I was on cloud nine for a good portion of the time. But no matter how it languished my beliefs, I couldn't stabilize and come back to reality. This illness was too much for me to handle on my own. When they discharged me the second time after another 10 days, I was still tipsy. At the beginning of October, after a few anxiety attacks at home and a strong intuition that I needed a different combination of medications, I readmitted myself to a different psych board for a few more weeks. It was a tormenting experience, as I believed the apocalypse was near. It was 2012, after all. I even met another patient, a caricature of Jesus, who tried to convince me he was too busy for my struggles since December 21st. The Mayan calendar date for the end of time came soon. He had me Hook, line and sinker.

Katie Dale:

While confusion reigned supreme, my symptoms worsened, hypersexuality came into the foreground of my bipolar flare-up and I found the temptation to seduce men and plan a divorce stronger than my own will. When I met a few other charming bipolar flirts, I found the desire to fantasize about being with them unbearable. I fell for one guy and agreed that if after the next year I was divorced, we would find each other and marry. I took that love interest to the level of a kiss, though he didn't return the affectionate jester Soon. I was talking openly of divorcing my dear husband, though he, thankfully, would have none of it. I was sincere, but my passions died off as the time passed and I was discharged for the last time. I held my breath as December 21st of that year came and went and when the world didn't end, I gradually came back around.

Katie Dale:

It took a while to figure out that all my psychotic hallucinations and seeming substantiations weren't real. After I felt like I betrayed my husband in lusting after another, I doubted I was even born again, a true follower of Christ, a consequence of the illness was my irresponsible behavior, combined with the voices in my head which told me that I was a child of Satan, not of God. How could I enter the kingdom of heaven if I thought like an adulteress? But my husband never gave up, even when I did. Eventually I repented and he forgave me.

Katie Dale:

The force of the bipolar disorder was strong, but God proved stronger and faithful. I always had a strong faith in God. I felt closest to him in my hospital stays than ever before, but I wanted healing from my bipolar. Didn't he promise healing through faith? Sure, but I am wary now of anyone professing signs and wonders, as Jesus himself tells his disciples in Matthew 7, 21-23, not everyone who says to me, lord, lord, shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father in heaven. God is good, as he restored my mind, my faith and my life. It almost cost me my faith, but slowly and surely I came out of the fog. The bottom line is this I needed to take my medication, no matter how much faith I possessed. My journey since that last hospitalization incorporated intensive cognitive behavioral therapy, a daily routine of taking my medication, finding a career.

Katie Dale:

I'm passionate about, advocating for mental wellness and sharing my story in memoir and blog form. I am a firm believer, not only in healing through prayer, but in the merits of medication and science. If I had the opportunity to sit down with my younger self, maybe in the activities room or the hallways of that psych hospital in Orlando, I would tell her that, yes, god can and does heal. But just because some preacher encouraged you that you could be healed simply by having enough faith, you need to be wise and take care, take counsel of others. Medication is God's gift to you to keep you stable and mentally intact. That's what I would tell that confused young woman. I know this is true because without my medicine, I lost my mind, even though my faith was intact. Without God, there's no medicine and in regards to my mental well-being, that is the miracle of miracles Redemption through modern science and medication. He is, after all, known as the Great Physician. Thankfully, I'm taking his prescription for a full, healthy life, medication and a daily dose of his truth, his word. Today I'm more stable and sound of mind than ever.

Katie Dale:

I found that this life with serious mental illness is a battle, but if I can take my medication and hash out my issues in life with a Christian therapist, close friend or family members. I am already on the road to victory. Half the battle was accepting the diagnosis and understanding that there is a treatment that can keep me balanced and functional. I'm going places now. Sharing my testimony and trials proves to me and others that this illness is not something to ignore, but that the Lord, my shepherd, is working out everything to the good and to his glory for all who love him and are called according to his purposes Romans 8, 28. Everyone has a cross in life to bear, and mine happens to be bipolar disorder.

Katie Dale:

I'm so blessed to have the depth of experience I did. I felt the closest to God in the hospital and no one can deny me that he saw what I saw, heard what I heard, and that comforts me. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that even in my mania he was in control then and is in control now. It's his creation. He is king of it. So for those struggling with faith in God in the midst of mental illness, take courage. He is for us, for God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of power, love and a sound mind. 2 Timothy 1.7.

Katie Dale:

When the day comes and psychiatry wants to study the connection between spiritual and scientific, my case will provide the material to do so. I am convinced that spiritual, social, intellectual, emotional and physical are intricately intertwined and more correlative than is generally accepted. If the mind is science's final frontier, it is because it is the most mysterious, complex and elusive object ever studied. It's the most mysterious, complex and elusive object ever studied. Having my brain chemistry altered through bipolar disorder and the medications I trialed was a psychological meat grinder kind of experience that oppressed and twisted my sanity. I wouldn't be where I am today, healthy and stable, if it wasn't for the superb conduction of medication I take daily. Surely, medication for my mind is nothing short of a miracle. No matter how much faith I have is nothing short of a miracle, no matter how much faith I have.

Gabe Nathan:

Thank you so much for not only reading that but for writing that and I want to tell you, as your editor working on that piece I just remember what a pleasure it was working on that with you.

Katie Dale:

Oh, thanks, Gabe. Yeah, same here. You're a great editor.

Gabe Nathan:

Thank you. A couple of paragraphs up from the end you write if I had the opportunity to sit down with my younger self, maybe in the activities room or the hallway of that psych hospital, Orlando, I would tell her. And then you go on to say what you would tell your younger self. This essay was now written by your younger self, with years having gone by. What would you tell the Katie R Dale who wrote this piece? Knowing what you know now, experiencing, having what you've experienced now, what would you sit down and talk to her about now?

Katie Dale:

That's a hard question. I'm not sure.

Gabe Nathan:

That's what I'm here for.

Katie Dale:

I'm here for the softballs and the hardballs yes, yes, it's good because, yeah, I feel like gosh, there's so much that went on between you know the time I wrote that piece and now that it's like I don't have time for that, like to stop and think I've got a three-year-old and I'm doing X Y, z already. So it's really something I would encourage myself then is just stay the course and keep showing mercy to other people. Like don't be tempted to judge people for wherever they're at.

Gabe Nathan:

Do you feel like you judged yourself?

Katie Dale:

Which self.

Gabe Nathan:

At that time? At that time, or is that something that you struggle with now, for choices that you make, or even for having mental health challenges, or for anything?

Katie Dale:

You know what? I don't think I'm that judgmental as I used to be, because I do remember that was a big lesson I learned in the hospital.

Katie Dale:

But I need to be reminded of it every now and then, because I don't judge others or myself for, like being mentally ill, but I may judge somebody for I don't know, like something else, like not believing exactly the same way I do and not being there to like listen to them, to understand, to like listen to them to understand. And I do that, probably more than I realize, because I've you know, like I don't know. I just feel like that could be something I could work on. Um, now, even so, um, yeah, it's hard. I'm a very introspective person, but, you know, it's in those moments during the day that I and moments during the day that I'm not always self-aware about it.

Gabe Nathan:

I'm thinking about it during the day as I go through my day, but I'm not always catching myself like, oh, I was judging that person, or whatever, it's a very human thing and it's also a very human and very cool thing to be contemplative about it and to notice when it's happening, or maybe notice after it's happened. Maybe you'll leave this interview and think about it. Maybe when Gabe said, oh, I'm atheist or I don't believe in anything, maybe I had that flicker of feeling, and that's okay.

Katie Dale:

Which I don't, by the way.

Gabe Nathan:

But if you did, that's okay, and I think it's okay to feel it or not feel it, or think about it or be curious about it or even subconsciously, because I might give that vibe, because I'm not aware of it.

Gabe Nathan:

Right, right, right, right, but that's all part of being alive, aware of it, yeah, right, right, right right, but that's all part of I mean, that's all part of being alive, I think, when you look towards so in this interview we did a lot of looking at the past and, you know, looking at where Katie was when she was writing this essay, and in the essay she's looking at the past and thinking about where she was in her first hospitalization and second. When you look now towards the essay, she's looking at the past and thinking about where she was in her first hospitalization and second. When you look now towards the future, what do you see?

Katie Dale:

I see light coming into different um communities and, um, it's kind of like a candlelight and it's eliminated and it's like there's mirrors that are like like I don't know how you know, this is just me um off the top of my head here. I haven't thought of this before, but it's um what's coming to me. So there's like mirrors projecting that light and like the world getting brighter in those communities that are. The light represents um. Light primarily represents the law of God, but that light is shining on the truth of what people are going through and there's no filters of what the reality of what they're going through is. So people are able to see clearer what a person struggling with whatever it is, is going through. So that's where I hope the future is and that you know it would spread like a fire, like a wildfire.

Gabe Nathan:

That sounds pretty extraordinary and I can't help but think two things.

Gabe Nathan:

One, how lovely and hopeful that is juxtaposed against, I think, feelings that a lot of people are feeling about how divided everyone is and how polarized everything is and how negative everything feels, and how I mean not to be too blunt with the juxtaposition, but how dark everything feels and that there's not a lot of hope.

Gabe Nathan:

And it's a very hopeful sentiment. And the other thing that I'm thinking about is the metaphor that I've seen at so many mental health presentations and PowerPoints of the iceberg and it's the little piece at the top of the water, is what you know about someone and what you see about them, and everything beneath the water as it spreads that you can't see is everything else that they're going through. And wouldn't it be nice if we could see the entire iceberg for everyone with whom we interact in a day the postal clerk, the woman scanning our stuff at Aldi, our neighbor, our loved ones, and so we could have a little bit more compassion. All of the veneers would be dropped, all of the fake social bullshit, and we could just be kind of naked with who we are and just be like this is me, this is everything on my plate. Have a little empathy, you know.

Katie Dale:

Yeah, that's a powerful image right there too. People are people and we're all struggling with something, whether Jesus or not, we're all struggling.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, for sure. I'm so grateful to you and you're just such a cool person and I feel like people listening to this will want to find your work and want to find you. Where can they do that?

Katie Dale:

I'm on social media, at Katie R Dale, on the hashtags, or hashtags the handles, excuse me. At KDR Dale.

Gabe Nathan:

Come on, get with it, Boomer.

Katie Dale:

I know right, the website is KDRDalecom and I just started a sub stack today. Wow, yeah, I'm going to check that out and give that a shot too, yeah.

Gabe Nathan:

Wonderful. Well, I'm wishing you all the very best and thank you so much for being here and for looking back with us and for looking ahead with us. Thank you for being on Recovery Diaries in Depth.

Katie Dale:

Wow, Gabe, this was fun and what a delight. Thank you for having me.

Gabe Nathan:

My pleasure, thank you. Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors. Thank you so, so much to our guest for today, katie R Dale, for taking us back to her essay called Finding my Faith Despite Losing my Mind. Thank you. Before we leave you, we want to remind you to check out our website, recoverydiariesorg. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos and content about mental health, empowerment and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast, episode, essay or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. Until next time, take good care.

People on this episode

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Gabriel Nathan

Host
Contributor

Gabriel Nathan

Host
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Katie Dale

Guest