Recovery Diaries In Depth

A Punk Rocker with Bipolar Finds Hope and Healing | RDID; Ep 116

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Jason Schreurs calls himself a “punk rock weirdo”, but he’s also a mental health group facilitator, writer, creator, advocate, podcast host and someone who lives with bipolar disorder. You could say that bipolar and punk come together in a unique and exciting way in Jason’s life and that “scream therapy” (the name of his podcast) is just one of the ways that Jason keeps and stays healthy, stable, and in recovery. 

Jason has written two creative and unique personal essays for Recovery Diaries, one about his relationship with social media, “Social Media – Recovering from the Drug Addiction of the Nation” and his eloquent, artistic reflection on getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder, “A Fractured Journey: Feeling the Throes of Bipolar Disorder Before Diagnosis”, which Jason reads aloud on our podcast. For Jason, writing has always been a lifeline, something that he has used to help express himself for himself as well as communicate with and connect to others. 

While Jason is an engaging podcast host on his own show, he’s just as good a guest on ours! In our conversation with Jason, he talks about what life was like before his diagnosis and how he is doing now; and Jason is thriving. His creativity has not diminished at all (even though some folks fear taking medication will take away their “juice”), he is helping others through his work as a bipolar support groups facilitator, and he continues to write and speak openly about his mental health, while still enjoying and making music. 

You can find everything Jason (including his fabulous book, "Scream Therapy: A Punk Journey Through Mental Health" at screamtherapyhq.com!  

This “punk rock weirdo” is the real deal, and we know you’ll enjoy his openness, his humor, and his heart. Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe!

Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they're always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting www.wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.

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Gabe Nathan:

Hello, this is Recovery Diaries In Depth. I'm your host, Gabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. We're very happy to have you here. I'm so happy to be welcoming to the show. He's a punk rock musician. He's a two-time Recovery Diaries essayist. He's written essays for us about recovering from social media addiction and the essay he's going to be reading today talks about his diagnosis of bipolar disorder and we're very happy to have him here today.

Gabe Nathan:

Each week we'll bring you a Recovery Diaries contributor folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through essay or video format. We want to see where they are in their mental health journey since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what has shifted, what has changed and what new things have emerged. We're so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at recoverydiariesorg. There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment and change. You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast episode, essay or film, and you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes and grow. And, of course, make sure to like, share and subscribe. Jason Schurz, thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Recovery Diaries In-Depth.

Jason Schruers:

You're most welcome, Gabe. Thanks for having me.

Gabe Nathan:

It is a pleasure and I'm excited to say that this is our first go at video, so it's wonderful to see you and to have you be seen by our listeners and followers of this podcast. So, like, yay for us for trying something new and scary

Jason Schruers:

yeah, it's great.

Gabe Nathan:

And speaking of new and scary, I guess that's a good way to start. Um, writing about your mental health, that can be scary. Um, opening up about something so vulnerable. Um, and you know that's what we ask people to do all the time. Uh, on recovery diaries, we're asking you to sit down and share a very vulnerable piece of you, and I know what it's like from the other side. I work with people on their essays. I, of course, read all the essays here and experiencing them from that perspective it's very hard, but you're the one actually doing it, so can you talk a little bit about what that experience was like?

Jason Schruers:

Well, I've got a slightly different feeling about it and because I was a writer, am a writer and have been for so long that I felt like it was. Writing has always been for me a method of survival in the sense that, you know, I felt like I had to do it, I had to get the ideas out of my head and I had to express myself. I was doing that through mostly music writing, which is actually quite constricting. So I always felt like I was on the precipice of, like getting into more creative writing.

Jason Schruers:

But writing essays like the one that I wrote for OC87 Recovery Diaries was it was almost like I needed to have something to spew out at that point, because it was just such a hard, rough place with depression and I feel like I had to have some sort of a creative outlet. And it was not to sound cool, but it was almost like it was material right, it was something that I actually could express myself about and it was the only thing I could really express about myself at the time. So, um, you know it wasn't hard really. I mean it was. I think the purge was more and more of a release and it was actually, uh, made it really quite smooth and, um, I just needed to get it out and I think that was the way that I had to do it.

Gabe Nathan:

Um, it was harder to sit and wallow in things and be like by myself and be depressed than it was to just to put it out there. Do you think, while you were in that place of sort of as you put it sitting and wallowing in those feelings, were you looking for outlets? Were you looking for ways to get it out? Were you looking for ways to get it out.

Jason Schruers:

At that point it was really all I could do. I mean, I still was doing some music stuff. It was really rough, Like coming out of a diagnosis like that. It was like really like on the couch, can't get up, you know, splitting headaches. You know I had a psychotic episode, so that's compared to a head injury.

Jason Schruers:

You know, it was like really getting bludgeoned by a, by a cinder block, you know, and and so I think, uh, the other outlets really fell to the side and I had a really hard time writing too. I just I basically gave up on it. I thought I'm not going to bother doing this anymore. It's just not fulfilling me. One of the things about depression is you start to not enjoy anything that you used to enjoy, and writing was a huge enjoyment for me. So, yeah, it was really just about, like I said, almost a survival technique. I knew how to write. I'd done it my whole life, so I'll get to the keyboard and whatever comes out, and at least I'm getting something out, and the rest of those activities that I was really into kind of just fell away.

Gabe Nathan:

Has things come back for you since then? Yes, huge, hugely. What was that process like? Finding those things again Slow difficult, painful.

Jason Schruers:

I slowly brought in things that I was interested in doing, but there was a new lens to it, because, of course, a lot of that was mental health, whereas I never really spoke about that before. There were, you know, there were kind of like flashes of things that I saw in my writing in retrospect, but I never really tackled mental health as being a thing in my life. And so, you know, all of a sudden, I was really taking that on, learning a lot about bipolar, which I was diagnosed with in 2018, learning a lot about things like support groups and different modalities of therapy and CBT and all those kinds of things, and really just immersing myself in it. So that's kind of how I got to like a sort of a stable place. And then after that I, you know, got back into the bands and I got back into the writing and I got back into the podcasting and all those things as well.

Jason Schruers:

As you know, things like playing tennis or like just sort of, you know, going for hikes, those all came back slowly and now I'm at a place where, you know, the mental health stuff is still there and I'm very involved with advocacy and things like that, but it's not like a constant, like I'm depressed. I'm depressed, I want to die, I want to. It was. You know it's like more. I know that it's an issue I'm dealing with, but I'm managing it rather than just like fighting it. You know there's a certain amount of like giving in and realizing. You know this has to be dealt with.

Gabe Nathan:

Well, it's right, it's, it's living with the thing. I feel like a lot of people think that recovery is, oh, I'm recovered and you know, now I don't have to deal with this anymore. But it really is a certain amount of acceptance of like, okay, this thing is here, um, I am living with this mental health challenge. It is a part of me, um, and I know that. So I live with anxiety and depression and so much of my life has been, I feel, wasted in a way, spent fighting those two issues and pushing up against them and railing against them and having them control me and me resisting that. But as I get older and have learned, okay, this shit isn't going away, no matter how hard I kick and scream, right, it's more about just accepting that they're here and learning to live the best life that you can with that. I don't know if that's been similar for you in some way.

Jason Schruers:

Oh, exactly, I mean, that's basically what I would have said. You know, one of the things that I really learned around language when it comes to mental health issues and I learned this through other people that I talked to on the podcast was that you know, like turning it around and saying like, okay, what am I recovering from? Like, where am I trying to get? Am I trying to get back to the way I was before being diagnosed, because that was horrible and that was also really scary and awful, and, you know, am I trying to find something new? And so you know more of a transformation language than a recovery language, because really this is the chance for you to change and to be potentially, well, obviously, a different person, but kind of pushing through instead of pushing against it, kind of pushing through it.

Jason Schruers:

And I think now you know I'm a totally different person than I was before. I mean, I'm still me, like I'm still got all those same, you know, like traits and stuff, but it's way more controlled, that's way more measured and I think the things that I'm doing now make a lot more sense. Yeah, I pulled off some like wild stuff when I was undiagnosed, like I mean I was doing cool things. But now I'm still doing cool things, uh, but I'm doing them in a way that makes a bit more sense or or is more realistic to to my life.

Gabe Nathan:

So that's something that I want to touch on that I think is really important to talk about. Um, you're a very creative person, you know. You're into music and writing and all these different creative endeavors, and I think there's this seductive thing about bipolar disorder with mania, where creative people are like, oh wow, well, when I'm hypomanic, shit's really good and I'm creating all the time and I'm staying up till 3am and I'm doing all this amazing stuff, um, and then, you know, hypomania slides very scarily into full blown mania. Um, but people do talk about how it feels good, and especially creative people have heard this. What is helping you? I'm assuming you're on medication, correct?

Jason Schruers:

Yeah.

Gabe Nathan:

Okay, so what is helping you maintain and being able to say, yes, I did pull off some wild stuff when I was unmedicated and untreated, but this is better and I'm not tempted to play with fire.

Jason Schruers:

Really, yeah Well, I mean, that also is something that I've thought a lot about and talked to about people in the podcast that come on but what I've realized is that, yes, when you're unmedicated, undiagnosed and don't know what's going on and you're suffering through huge bouts of depression, huge bouts of like mania Okay, so most people with bipolar have kind of a half and half-ish thing. I mean, some people have, you know, like months or even years of depression and then maybe like a week of mania. But a lot of the people that have bipolar that I know and I know for myself, we're dealing with a kind of a half and half. That's kind of the whole idea is, you know you're going like, you know, depression mania, and so when you're depressed you don't want to do anything, so you're not creating anything.

Jason Schruers:

When you're depressed you might be wallowing, you might be writing some thoughts down, you might be like struggling with stuff and you know a lot of good art comes out of struggle as well but you're really not creating or outputting anything. And when you're manic, you're doing all kinds of stuff. You're staying up all night and you're writing, you know, like an album worth of songs in three hours, or whatever you're doing. You know you're running all over the place at parties. Um, so you're, you're getting a lot accomplished when you're manic, but it may not always be stuff that you can hold on to or use in the end. Right, it might just be like pipe dream type stuff.

Jason Schruers:

One of the things like that made me like incoherent and delusional, right, like a lot of the stuff that I was doing was was just like blah, you know, it was like there wasn't a lot that I could hold on to in the end. Um, and so I think the you know there's misconception about okay, well, I'm going to be super creative if I'm off my medication. I'm going to be super creative and do all these things. And you're only working on a half time, first of all, and the stuff you are doing when you're manic can be quite unpredictable and not really cool, but maybe way too cool, you know.

Jason Schruers:

So, and a lot of people that I deal with, like I do a support group that I facilitate for bipolar folks, and a lot of these people talk about, yes, like I'm feeling quite flat. You know, I may not be depressed, I may not be manic, I may be like what we call stable, but I'm just like flatline in it, right. So you know, let's try, like, let's see what I can do if I, you know, maybe I'll go off my meds because it feels so great to be manic, or maybe I feel good on hypomania and start to feel kind of like really in the groove. Well, let's just see how far I can go with this before before things go sour and things do go sour for a lot of people, you know you end up in the hospital or sometimes worse or worse, so yeah, so I think yeah, it's all about. I wouldn't say boring, but I would say like more measured. One of the guys in my group always says, always says, hey, a boring day is a great day, you know, for a, for a person with bipolar.

Gabe Nathan:

But yeah, no handcuffs, no restraints, no forced medication.

Jason Schruers:

Boring give, give me boring, that's great yeah, but boring with, let's call it boring, I call it. You know, stable um. With that comes a lot of really great stuff, like I'm in a band now where I've written songs that I never would have written when I was. When I was manic, I was, everything was just all about like performance, art stuff, like smashing things and screaming and, you know, like improvisational weirdness, and now I write songs that I'm actually like hey, this is a good song. You know, it's.

Jason Schruers:

It's. It's really fun to be in where things feel realistic, I guess. How did you get into music? Oh well, when I was a kid I got into music through, mostly through actually through skateboarding. You know, getting to skateboarding and really enjoying the thrill of that and then kind of finding music. That was, you know, kind of in alignment with that, so a lot of punk, rock and metal. But I was quite young, I used to my parents had music and, you know, kind of in alignment with that. So a lot of punk, rock and metal.

Jason Schruers:

But I was quite young, I used to my parents had music and you know they played it around the house. And then I remember I had a birthday party where I only invited one person to the birthday party and my rule was like you have to buy me an album. And he bought me a Tina Turner album and I was like super stoked Wow, I've just always loved music. It quite quickly got into, you know, the I've just always loved music. It quite quickly got into the heavy and the fast and the screamy and that was kind of what I needed. I needed to have that outlet. I needed to hear back what I was hearing in my head, which was a lot of anguish when I was younger too. So, yeah, this is how I found it, and I never really looked back. I've been doing this music stuff for a long long time, decades and decades now, so it's meant to be.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, and I know that they're intertwined.

Jason Schruers:

But my next question is about writing. Yeah, yeah, same thing. I remember when I was reading magazines when I was a kid, I always thought at that point it's like I want to write about music, I don't want to be in bands, I want to describe about music, I don't want to be in bands. You know, I want to, I want to, I want to describe and be creative. And that quickly got into, you know, volunteering for a bunch of magazines that were writing about music and I just kind of went with it. And you know I was just doing a lot of that stuff and I think, you know, I always kind of wanted to be a writer when I was a kid. I remember writing things for English class and stuff and thinking that's what I want to do. But I think until I found the music angle, it didn't really make a lot of sense. Like I wasn't thinking I'm going to write a novel when I'm older. I was thinking like I want to write about stuff that I care about.

Gabe Nathan:

And the support group that you facilitate. I mean, I know I read in your bio that you did that and I was like, oh, I wonder if he's still doing that, because it's been, you know, quite a while. Yeah, um, can you talk a little bit about how you got into that? Um, you know is, did you use support groups in your recovery group therapy? Um, and you know what was it like to become a facilitator? What's it been like?

Jason Schruers:

Oh, it's been amazing. We actually just had our weekly meeting last night. It's just, it's so validating. I never feel like I'm being like the leader of anything, even though I call it directing traffic, you know, like okay, you're next, or whatever. But I always feel on total equal terms with these people. Some of them I just completely admire for what they've done in their journey of living with bipolar, sometimes for 30, 40 years, for 30, 40 years. Other folks I'm super inspired by because they've just been diagnosed, even last week, and they're right in the thick of it, and so it's an amazing experience.

Jason Schruers:

The reason I got into it is because when I was coming out of the hospital, one of the very first things I did was go to a support group at the hospital and I walked in and thought, okay, well, because when you get diagnosed with something, especially with me, I'd never really heard of bipolar before, which is wild because I got diagnosed in my mid-40s. And so to walk into a room and realize that you know, oh, wait a second, there's 12 people in this room and they're all dealing with things too. Because, you know, I think my image was I walk in and just be like me and one other person and we both just cry or something. It wasn't like this feeling of support. Like this feeling of support From there, I just went and got training so I could do my own groups, because I felt like I kind of knew how they worked after being at that one for a while and I thought, hey, this is a chance for me to volunteer.

Jason Schruers:

You know, volunteering is amazing for folks that are living with mental health issues because, of course, all of a sudden, that creates a purpose. I have things that I can do and I can. You know, I can kind of be understood at the same time.

Gabe Nathan:

Since you were published here. I mean, it's been a while. I know you have two essays on the site, but it's been some time. What has changed for you?

Jason Schruers:

Well, it's interesting because I mean looking at this article or essay that I wrote for you. Well, it's interesting because I mean looking at this, this, uh, this article or essay that I wrote for you guys, um, it's hard to read it because it's like things have changed so much. You know, I remember it and I know that it it rings true for me in that, in that space, but, yeah, it's like, okay, was it me that wrote that? Like you know, yes, I know that it was and it does.

Jason Schruers:

It is about me and there's some stuff in it about like my life and I know the things that I've done, but it's just like my, my outlook is so different. You know, like I don't feel like my depression's getting nearly as bad as they used to, and so I'm trying to identify with a person, whatever four years ago, whatever it was, that was just in so much pain and so much existential crisis, and now I feel like I belong in my life. I know what I've, you know, I know what I'm doing and I know why I'm here, and so, yeah, it was tough to to look back on that. Yeah, things have changed huge. You know.

Jason Schruers:

It's to use the bipolar sort of signal. It's like you know, if you go the ups and the downs of bipolar, it's like you know, like all of a sudden, now I'm totally, I've totally completely, like you know, um, uh, closed that gap that used to be there and, uh, that's been a very slow process. You know, I keep charts for my, for my moods, every day and if I look at all of them over the course of that four years, I can see how that slowly has come back to the middle of stability. And that's a very slow, long process, but it's really cool to see it on paper.

Gabe Nathan:

So you mentioned something that I wanted to talk about too, so we'll talk about it now. You're talking about the charts that you keep. Do you call them mood charts, or yeah?

Jason Schruers:

mood charts.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, so you know you're on medication, you're obviously seeing somebody to monitor medication and are you in like talk therapy too?

Jason Schruers:

Yeah, yeah, I do somatic therapy, which, but it's still Okay, talk about that. Yeah, yeah, I do somatic therapy, but it's still Okay, talk about that yeah, yeah, oh.

Jason Schruers:

Somatic therapy is just like body-based. So you close your eyes and kind of start to feel your body and look at places that are holding tension and then kind of look, except that you're not. You're not talking as much, but of course with me I'm a talker, so I go in there and I talk for the first 25 minutes of an hour session and then we get into it.

Gabe Nathan:

Okay, jason, close your eyes now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't know if you do, but-.

Jason Schruers:

It's hard to just be present in the body and not just be thinking the whole time about stuff and yeah, yeah, but it is. I've really I thought. I think it's been really valuable. But I think it's way more of an organic process that a lot of people would think. You know, you, you don't come out of there with like grand revelations, but I think because you're, you're in your body and you're kind of releasing different parts and different things slowly over the course of, because I used to think, hey, this isn't working, like, what a bunch of like. I come out of here and I feel like nothing happened. But after being in it for several years, I can see how my system is really settled and bipolar. Of course, you know you got a dysregulation in your system as well. You know things can get really hairy.

Gabe Nathan:

So what helped you stick with it? Because I'm very much like this, you know, like if I think something's bullshit or I just decide arbitrarily something's not working for me, I can give up very quickly.

Jason Schruers:

So I'm curious about how you kind of comforted that impulse in your mind to stay well, a huge thing is, and I'm sure you know in the states it's a huge thing. A huge thing is and I'm sure you know in the States it's a huge thing, more so than in Canada, because I'm living up here is that it was free. So I think if I had to pay for it, I probably wouldn't have gone back. I would have been like you know what the value isn't here. I'm paying $100 a session and I just can't justify it because I'm you know, I'm, I'm a low income, so but uh, I was given a lot of sessions through the victim assistance program, uh, you know, in relation to childhood abuse, so like I got all these free sessions and and then when I was done those, the therapist was like you know what? I'm just going to keep you on a pro bono.

Jason Schruers:

So, yeah, that was a huge thing, I think. I think it was just like, uh, being stubborn and just thinking you know what, like this doesn't feel like it's really doing anything, but like let's just keep doing it and see what happens. And you know, I was able to get out a lot of um, you know, like trauma stuff too, like near the beginning, and that was like, okay, you know this is, this can't be bad. Um, what ended up happening is it really went into more, like I said, the system-based body stuff, and I don't want to go half the time. I'm like this is whatever, but whenever I go, I feel like I did something for myself. You know, you come out of therapy I do with like a big headache and you're like well, why?

Gabe Nathan:

did. I do that Sometimes yeah.

Jason Schruers:

But I can see how it's beneficial and even if it's just talk therapy for an hour, I'm still getting placed to vent, even if it's just talk therapy for an hour, I'm still getting placed to vent.

Gabe Nathan:

When you were first diagnosed with bipolar, do you remember resisting it, resisting the diagnosis, or did everything kind of click, or was it something else for you?

Jason Schruers:

It was like no resistance at all. A lot of people deal with that, you know. A lot of people deal with like, hey, this isn't, this isn't a thing. Or for me it was just like oh, this is like, this is what it is, this is what's been going on, cause I always felt like I was super weird. I was doing a lot of things that were kind of against my you know my morals and ethics too. Like I was like this isn't me. Like you know, I'm a good person. Why am I doing this thing? And it was a total explanation for what was going on, because I was really obviously really scared, like I didn't know why I was having all these delusions and then was in a psychotic episode. I didn't know why I was. You know, before that I was depressed, sometimes for four months. You know, I didn't know, understand what was going on.

Gabe Nathan:

No-transcript that it clicked um and that you got what you needed. A little late in life maybe, but sometimes things happen when they need to. Um, yeah, and since we're talking about that diagnosis, what a nice way to segue into your essay, which I'm very excited to have you read. It is called A Fractured Journey Feeling the Throes of Bipolar Disorder. Before Diagnosis and whenever you're ready, I'll just have you take it away.

Jason Schruers:

Processing 1. Once upon a time there was a man who felt like he didn't deserve happiness, so he sabotaged everything and lived in misery until he died. Wonderful things happened to him. Wonderful people came into his life. He turned that wonder into misery and ended up alone and afraid. The happy ending does not exist. Processing 2. Once upon a time there was a man who lived a happy life, loved by many. This man was able to find peace in his life. He didn't ruminate on his decisions and instinctively knew what to say and do to find happiness. He was a born leader who was able to inspire people and himself. Everything he set out to do in his life he did with hard work and passion. The happy ending does exist.

Jason Schruers:

Depression 1. I'm wallowing in the misery of being alive, a selfish idiot who only cares about himself and isn't able to make even the simplest choices in order to feel better. I should be able to allow those around me to feel my positive energy instead of this sick, miserable, wallowing negativity. Why can't I just be happy? Depression 2. How many times can I fuck up before I give up? I want to crawl in a hole and die. I feel like the world's biggest failure and have no purpose on this earth other than to screw things up and make things worse. The only thing keeping me here is my family and friends, and I'm not even sure they miss me. At this point I am such a waste of space and I want to die. I feel like I'm crafting something dramatic here so someone else can read this and help me. I am fucked and I don't know how to fix myself. I can feel the weight of depression pinning me down and rubbing my face in the dirt. I don't know what to do.

Jason Schruers:

Existentialism I'm feeling a bit better. The medication dulls my emotions and I don't have the same urges to disappear. My head constantly aches from the stress, but feelings of worthlessness fade through the day. It's always the hardest when I first wake up. The morning walk helps to distract me, but when I come home it hits me hard. What am I doing with my life? Where am I going? What was I put here to do? What is my purpose? I can't do the simplest of things to keep myself occupied. Looking at job postings is torture, because I know I can't bring myself to do anything. It feels like I'm on a planet full of people who all have jobs and purposes, while I wander around with no reason for being here. Regular life distracts me, but I sit here aimless while everyone else is working. The answers aren't getting clearer. I'm not looking for them. Hope I know the answers, but I'm still not coming any closer to finding them. I have a bunch of options, but all of them involve doing something.

Jason Schruers:

I have had a problem with rumination for as long as I can remember. When I try to make a decision, I freeze. It could be whether to start a new career or what to make for dinner. Either way, I freeze in my tracks. That's a constant in my life. I'm acutely familiar with the concept of fly traps, but if a friend reaches out to me to go for a walk, I spring into action. I don't have to think about it, I just do it.

Jason Schruers:

I can often use a serious jolt. I've read about electroconvulsive therapy to reboot the brain, but isn't that a little bit extreme? My counselor says I have situational depression. Electricity coursing through my body doesn't sound like the proper treatment, but still a shock could shake me loose. Maybe I'm shutting down after so many years of moving so fast.

Jason Schruers:

I've been going hard since I was 14, and spent years writing and editing for music magazines, more than I can recall right now. I held down full-time jobs at newspapers that stretched way into overtime, helped raise four kids, booked punk shows and ran a punk rock mail order all happening at the same time. The amount of work I used to do on a daily basis amazes me now. How did I get it all done? So many projects, so many ideas, busy work, typing, data entry, writing and editing for 12 hours a day, packaging up all those music mail orders all of it every single day, morning to evening, then again at night. No peace of mind never for long at least. Now I'm here and it's just me myself and I sitting at a keyboard and failing to rid myself of this infection.

Jason Schruers:

This busy life that stuck with me for decades and feels impossible to shake Did years and years of overworking myself and letting stress consume me put me deep into this hole. If I slow down too much, will I be eaten alive or survive the mauling, questioning, trying to clear my mind? Most thoughts are past or future, where I trap myself. Either I regret the past or worry about the future. Present is real life. Things are happening right now that deserve my attention. Things will make me happy again, but I'm too blind to see them. Smiles feel nice, this is proven. Worry doesn't feel good, this is proven. How do I calibrate myself to maximum enjoyment? Running away on fancy vacations, following punk bands around on tour, burying myself in another job so I can justify doing these things on my vacations? Maybe I need to figure out that happiness bit first.

Jason Schruers:

Desperation Maybe I'm getting better. It feels like I could be, but honestly I have no idea at this point. I am completely exhausted from months of worry and stress. I wake up every day hit with overwhelming anxiety and depression. My first thoughts are usually about the dread of another day or how soon I can go back to bed. The anxiety makes my heart jump at everyday sounds and movements. The depression feels like a pile of chain mail thrown over me. I'm stumbling through a fog of emotional pain Loneliness, vulnerability, guilt, shame, remorse, sadness, boredom, a general sense of negativity, the forced smile on my face crushed by a blood-curdling scream of why won't anyone fucking help me? When you see me laugh, please cherish it, because I can't.

Jason Schruers:

Realization Maybe I'm meant to be a nobody, an unspoken hero. Even Someone who goes to work, doesn't stress, then goes home and lives a peaceful life. People remember the person, not the things they do. Is that true? If I can be who I've always wanted to be a stable husband, father, brother, son, friend maybe what I do isn't as important as the person I am. Maybe the things I do are just a bonus. Maybe anything extra is just the icing, and maybe that icing doesn't have to be sickly sweet. Maybe I'm meant to help people out when they need it, stick up for what is right and spend time with and put effort into people that deserve it. Maybe being a nobody is the goal.

Jason Schruers:

For so many years I've put value on what people think of me, what my status means to those around me. I've had a fear of abandonment and being harmed since childhood, sexual abuse, and I've spent my life trying to please others instead of taking care of myself. I'm finally ready to be that nobody who only wants to be known as a somebody to the ones I love. That starts with myself Diagnosis. Yesterday I found out that I have bipolar, formerly known as manic depression. Thinking back, this explains a lot.

Jason Schruers:

Reading back on my writing, it becomes clear A lot of what I wrote had depression and mania peeking through cries from help from between the lines. When I was depressed, my writing was dark, seen through a lens of despair. When I was manic, I ecstatically pounded on my keyboard. Everything was awesome. Knowing what I've been living with for all these years explains a lot of my struggles, but that comes with mixed feelings and uncertainty. With for all these years explains a lot of my struggles, but that comes with mixed feelings and uncertainty. But I'm used to that. I think back on my life and can't rub away all my bad decisions or shameful behavior, but I can find ways to explain them. Now my diagnosis has opened pathways in my brain. Clarity may just be what my decades of confusion need. I feel like writing something like wish me luck on this incredible journey, but that feels way too optimistic and super cheesy. Once upon a time there was a man who lived with bipolar. He'll be happy to take an ending with mixed results.

Gabe Nathan:

Jason, thank you so much for reading that and for writing that. No problem, jason, thank you so much for reading that and for writing that.

Gabe Nathan:

No problem. My favorite line is when you see me laugh, please cherish it, because I can't. It's a real a minute to collect myself after hearing that piece, which I think is a good thing, which I think is a good thing. The way the essay feels to me is it feels like a lifetime. You know the essay. It's a smallish snapshot of time, but it feels like you're writing your entire lifetime. Up until yesterday, I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder. Is that how it?

Jason Schruers:

feels to you. Hmm, I hadn't really thought about it like that. No, I don't think so. I'm glad that you know a person that hears it or reads it is thinking that because it makes a lot of sense.

Jason Schruers:

I think a lot of people's journeys is like there's so much before a diagnosis, that is is kind of almost uh, uh, it feels like it's everlasting, like it's going to be that way forever, and then, you know, the diagnosis is kind of that realization moment. Um, I think for me it was really like what's going to come out here, like what? What am I struggling with, you know? And I think one of the themes that comes up in the essay is like what is my purpose? What am I supposed to be doing right now? I know it's not laying on the couch with a brutal headache and feeling like I want to die. I know it's not like being on a walk and dragging myself around and thinking I want to run into the forest and never come back. That's not why I'm here. That's my mental health issues talking Right.

Jason Schruers:

So I think it was more about, you know, just kind of trying to find sense in what had happened before, but more in a way of like a lot of things came up when I was first diagnosed around. You know, like one of the big things is when I was working a really stressful job and lots and lots of hours and there's all these other things going on. So I was trying to sort of get a snapshot of what was it, what it was like in that part of my life. But I think by doing that it's natural to go back and sort of recapture what had happened before that. So I think it was like almost at the same time it was like one like snapshot, but also that broadened out to other things and I think I think a reader would be more inclined to see that than me, because I was just like, I was trying to be in the moment. I was in the moment and whatever comes out comes out.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, and I'm very grateful for what did come out. I'm very grateful for what did come out because I think it's such a beautiful piece and I think especially your descriptions of what those depressive pockets feel like. I'm reading a mental health essay, but the first draft at least. A lot of people are writing things like you know the dark cloud of depression, or you know, battling my demon in the dark, and you, just you have such a fresh and very earnest and very un-cliched way of bringing people to understand what that feels like, with a lot of art and a lot of heart also. So I just wanted to recognize that I think, I don't know, we asked people to write these essays, and just because you live with a mental health challenge doesn't necessarily mean that you're a great storyteller, um, but you have such a facility with words, um, so I just wanted to tip my hat to you. Um, there, it's just such a beautiful essay to listen to.

Jason Schruers:

Thanks, yeah, I think it. If you're a writer and you and you're artistic and you you write, as your writing is very creative and you're not falling into some of the same cliches no, everybody has cliches in their writing I'm just as guilty. But I think if and I think what I was thinking, as you're saying that is like I'm a punk rocker, right, like punks do things the way they want to do them and screw it all if you don't like it, and I think that really inspired my writing. And I wrote a book about punk rock and mental health as well, called Scream Therapy, and the whole thing is in that style.

Jason Schruers:

You know it's, it's very much like in your face and people read it and like whoa, um, but I can't do it any other way, and so, um, unconventional would be the word. You know, like, like my writing is is unconventional, and that's what. That's what draws a lot of people to it. It's like it's not the same, it's, it's just like it's, it's almost a, it's a challenge, I guess, to to. I don't know, I feel like I'm blowing my own horn now, but it's, it's a challenge to conventional, conventional writing in some ways.

Gabe Nathan:

I mean it's what drew me. I know we're all in the sparrows, but I feel like I have some.

Jason Schruers:

I've got some sort of spark.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, and it's what drew me to you. When I got your first submission, and you know, I knew there was something unique and exciting here. So I don't think it's tootin' your own head, and if it is tootin' your own fucking horn, who cares? That's okay. Nothing wrong with that Having wrong with that.

Jason Schruers:

Um, having said that, I really don't, having said that I really don't like the piece anymore, like I'm glad people like it, and I think it's natural for a writer not to look back on a something they wrote it four or five years ago and be like, oh, I hate everything I've ever written except the very last piece.

Gabe Nathan:

I've written whatever's newest I like and then in a couple weeks I won't like that anymore either. So I understand, yeah, um, my, I have two, two questions before we go. You know you were talking about, you know, being a punk musician and you know it's it's my way, or the highway. How did you parse that with working with an editor? Cause you worked with Evan for both of your essays. So in the one sense, it's like I want to be unconstrained and I want to say everything my way, but you're also working with an editor. Um, so what was that like for you, if you remember?

Jason Schruers:

I think I've always been pretty good with that. Um, I've had some, some bad editors over the years and I went to butt heads with them. But I think it for me it's more about like, I'm putting it out there and now it's not really mine anymore, right, like I've written it, it was mine, it was, and then now it's out, and so if an editor wants to work with that and find the strengths and the weaknesses and be constructive with their criticism and be really cool with their, you know, whatever changes they want me to make, then I feel like, okay, well, that's, it's great to have someone else's opinion on it. You know, um, when I was manic, everything I wrote was the best Genius. Of course, when I was depressed, the stuff I had to struggle to get out was awful. So to have a, to have an objective opinion, um, you know it's, it's great.

Jason Schruers:

So to me that was an opportunity and luckily I always worked with, you know, like more like, um, alternative publications and stuff too. It wasn't, you know, it wasn't writing for the New York times or something, and so that was. That was a blessing as well. Um, but ultimately it was it was more about okay, it's out in the world. It's not really mine anymore. You know I wrote it, but it's not my property In a sense of like intellectual or like emotional property.

Gabe Nathan:

Yeah, Last question what are you excited about, what are you looking forward to in your life In the short term, in the long term? Just in general.

Jason Schruers:

Just living it really. I mean, I've got projects that I'm working on that I'm excited about, but I'm excited about being stable and actually one of the most glorious things that I'm excited about is that sometimes I don't think about bipolar. I don't think that I'm living with it, I don't think this is a bipolar symptom, I don't think, and that was just such a consuming like that's all I thought about every single day, every single minute, and it was like trying to figure out ways to deal with it. You know, like, oh, I'm feeling a little bit excited. I'm like, oh, is this mania? Like questioning myself, not accepting it, like not accepting that, the fact that I'm not accepting not that I wasn't accepting the diagnosis more, like you know, I can't accept that this is happening to my life right now. Like you know, it's like really a lot of like just stuff that interfere with my day to day. So I'm really excited about just being stable, managing the diagnosis, knowing that if I have some symptoms that I can I know what they are now and I can I can work with them. And you know, it's really cool to be like feeling quite low and like, and then kind of just being able to pull out of that without really knowing it, whereas before it was like I'm feeling low. I'm feeling low, I'm feeling the worst, I'm feeling awful, I want to die like it was just the spiral.

Jason Schruers:

Um, so, yeah, I'm excited about living and I'm excited about, you know, the the projects I'm here and there. I've got a music festival coming up in August in town here that I'm putting on. I'm excited about being in the band we're jamming later today in the old jam space behind me here, you know, excited about my partner and our relationship. Excited about, yeah, everything that wasn't everything. That's real. You know, when you're manic, you draw up all kinds of plans. They don't make any sense usually, and so those were things that I was excited about. But then now I realize, hey, wait a second. Like, yeah, I'm excited, but I'm also doing it, like I'm also doing the work and I'm I'm being, I'm being, uh, realistic about things.

Jason Schruers:

So, yeah, it's more of an overall outlook that I'm excited about than specific things.

Gabe Nathan:

That's wonderful. I'm excited for you. I'm excited for everything that's real for you. Take us home by letting everyone know where they can find you, where can they find your music, where can they find your podcast, your book.

Jason Schruers:

I've got everything at screamtherapyHQcom. So ScreamTherapyHQ as in headquarters, dot com, the book is, you know, petering down with sales. But you know, I just got a review yesterday from someone over in UK and they were super stoked on it. So if people get it it's still there for them, kind of like with the essay. You know, like, yeah, it feels old to me but new to other people. And then the podcast is there as well. You know podcasts, you can find it in all the different platforms. But if you want to go to the actual, website.

Jason Schruers:

It's screamtherapyhq. com

Gabe Nathan:

Awesome, Thank you so so much for joining us us today. It was so wonderful to spend some time with you.

Jason Schruers:

You're most welcome. It was good to to talk to you again and I really enjoy working with you.

Jason Schruers:

Uh, for the two essays that I wrote

Gabe Nathan:

Maybe there's a third in the can somewhere down the line. We'll see. Thank you, Jason. Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors, and that was Jason Schreurs. Musician, health journalist, creative writer and self-proclaimed punk weirdo. He also lives with bipolar disorder and he hosts and produces the internationally renowned podcast Scream Therapy, which you can find anywhere you get podcasts and on ScreamTherapyHQ. com. Before we leave you, we want to remind you to check out our website, recoverydiaries. org. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos and content about mental health, empowerment and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast episode, essay or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. Until next time, take good care.

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