Manning Up Means Getting Help with Suicidal Thoughts: Chris Russell | RDID; 207

Today, Chris Russell is a grounded, hopeful human being who helps others navigate suicidal ideation as a volunteer for the Suicide/Crisis Lifeline. He definitely still has his struggles with symptoms related to his bipolar ii diagnosis, but he is managing his mental health in a way that was inconceivable to him not too long ago, where he was struggling with intense, unmanaged anger, impulsiveness, incessant thoughts of taking his own life.

In this moving and heartfelt interview, Chris opens up to host Gabe Nathan, who struggles with many of the same issues Chris does, about his mental illness, how it has impacted his work as an actor, writer, and teacher, and where he was in his mind the night that he finally reached out for help, to what was then the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. It wasn't perfect or without frustrations (after all, Chris was 44th in the queue) but it was enough to keep Chris from killing himself, it was enough for him to slowly move towards recovery, to share what he was experiencing with others, to give them the opportunity to give him understanding and support, to feel seen and heard. A chance to start encouraging other men like him to shed their archaic armor and be vulnerable.

Chris is an extraordinary human being, volunteering to take calls from people in the throes of suicidality and other psychiatric emergencies, as part of his own recovery, as a way to honor himself and his mother, as a way to give something back. We are so grateful for his strength, his creativity, his openness, and his courage; and we're excited to share this conversation with you. Please share it with someone you love; you'll be glad you did.

Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they’re always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.

https://recoverydiaries.org/

Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

Gabe Nathan 0:00

Hello. This is Recovery Diaries in Depth. I'm your host, Gabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. We're very happy to have you here. We are so, so grateful to have as our guest on the show, Chris Russell. He's a two-time Recovery Diaries author. He's an actor, filmmaker, and acting coach. Some of his recent TV credits include American Sports Story, Aaron Hernandez, FBI, Blue Bloods, Wu Tang and American Saga, and Law and Order SVU. He's an advocate for men's mental health awareness. He's had several essays published across multiple platforms. And he does volunteer work for the Crisis Textline. Each week, we'll bring you a recovery diaries contributor, folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through essay or video format. We want to see where they are in their mental health journey since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what has shifted, what has changed, and what new things have emerged. We're so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at recoverydiaries.org. There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment, and change. You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast episode, essay, or film. And you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes, and grow. And of course, make sure to like, share, and subscribe. Chris Russell, thank you so, so much for being here on Recovery Diaries in Depth. It is an absolute joy to see you.

Chris Russell 1:53

Yeah, it's great to see you, Gabe. Thank you for having me.

Why Men Stay Silent

Gabe Nathan 1:56

Um Wow. So I have to just say that anytime we get an essay from a man, I want to like shower my living room with confetti. Um and it sucks and it shouldn't be that way, but it is. Uh it is that way. Um, the vast majority of the folks who submit essays to us um are female. The vast majority of the people who come to our site to read um are female. And you know, I have my own thoughts about that. I I want to hear your thoughts just about that.

Chris Russell 2:38

Oh man, I think that's probably what the the first essay I sent you was about. It's just about men not speaking openly about these things. And that's been a mission statement for me as a as a writer, as an artist, as a filmmaker, as a teacher, as everything. It's just um, you know, I I didn't grow up in an environment where it was okay to speak openly about these things and to be vulnerable in that way. So it's really great to hear that. Thank you for thank you for validating that. Um that's important. But um, but yeah, it doesn't surprise me whatsoever you saying that and and it's not just like it's not just an essay.

Gabe Nathan 3:23

I want to also clarify and and emphasize that like you're not your piece piece is there's two pieces of yours on our on our site. They're not just essays written by a man, you're really damn good. You're a really good writer, and you really have an ability to to draw the reader in and lead with empathy um and compassion and really not pull punches. Um it's it's really honest and vulnerable storytelling. And um, so it's not enough to just I don't know, be a man and and write a piece, right? That's it's not enough. Um, and so I just want to thank you for like for sharing your your vulnerability with us, but also your your talent with us. Um, it means a lot.

Chris Russell 4:16

That means a lot for you to say that, Jeez. Thank you. Um Wow. Um it's really kind of you to say. I'm I'm a little taken aback by that. Thank you.

Gabe Nathan 4:25

Was this your first foray into being public and open about having struggles with mental health, about considering suicide?

Diagnosis, Denial, And Stigma

Chris Russell 4:36

Definitely. Uh excuse me. Everything I had written about previously were were in screenplay format for the most part. I had a blog when I was a doorman way back in the day that was just this angry, awful place that I just got out all of this anger and aggression um as as a hotel doorman in in New York City. And uh I I read some of that back and I'm like, oh man, I I don't love that guy. Um, and it was mostly comedic, and it was mostly just me kind of just making fun of people and not, you know, it it wasn't really I wasn't reflecting on my bullshit. I was just can I swear?

Gabe Nathan 5:19

Please.

Chris Russell 5:20

Oh fuck yeah. Please do. So um, so yeah, it there was nothing, uh it was just very bitey, but it wasn't truly vulnerable. I I got there a few times and it was scary. But uh the article that I wrote for you guys, um, that was the first time where I got really personal about my own struggles with mental health. And um, you know, while I was doormanning, I wrote about this, I think, in the second essay. Uh, I was having these like meltdowns, like these like big explosive emotional meltdowns. I was getting into fights every day with taxi drivers and guests, and it was just really, really bad. I'm lucky, I'm lucky I didn't get into a physical altercation. I'm lucky I didn't get fired. I I was a union delegate or shot or anything, anything along those lines. Like, you know, I'm I'm fortunate. I was a union delegate, and at that time I think you could, you know, you you probably would have to like murder somebody on on the street and that to get yourself fired. And that did not happen. But um while all that was happening, I got uh I went to a doctor and a psychiatrist, and they diagnosed me with bipolar disorder, bipolar two. Um, and I didn't buy it. I was like, yeah, fuck that. Like that doesn't mean anything. Like, well, does your does it run in your family? I'm like, maybe. They're like, who? Like my mom? Like, yeah, that's a pretty telltale sign. You're in your early 30s, yeah. That's usually when it rears its head, you know. Um, so I ignored that. Because why why would I take that seriously?

Gabe Nathan 6:59

Um why would you want that? Why would you want that that label, that diagnosis, that heaviness?

Chris Russell 7:08

Yeah. And this was 2013, 2014. So I I still don't think we're where we should be, but we were a ways away, way away back then. Um, and I didn't want that stigma. And I thought I would it would be, it would show up on some fake permanent record, you know, like like, oh I'm I'm bipolar, I'll never get a job ever again, or I'll never, you know, I have to disclose this to people, or I have to like tell this to people I date right away, you know, and everyone's gonna be scared of me because of the stigmas that surround that, you know. Um, so I was like, I just ignored it. I thought if I ignored it and I put it away, it would just go away. And it it never did. Um, and it showed up in different ways, you know. Like if I wasn't getting angry, I was getting depressed. If I wasn't getting depressed, I was getting manic. And when I would get manic, I would get creative. So I was like, good, I need that. I need that to write, I need that to create, I need that for my acting. Um, so you know, there was a myriad of reasons why I didn't take it seriously and why I didn't address it until I, you know, I nearly killed myself. And that was, you know, that was the that was the last straw, so to speak. That's when I when I wrote the article or or the catalyst for the article that I did write, that's when I um, you know, I saw Doctor surrendered and started taking it seriously. And thankfully I'm still here.

The Myth Of Suffering For Art

Gabe Nathan 8:44

And and I'm so glad that you're still here. I'm glad that you're here on this program. I'm glad that you're here on our site as part of our community, and I'm glad that you're here here um in the world. Um and I so I want to talk about that that kind of pivotal moment for you where you were you were considering taking your life and you reached out to what was then the National Suicide Convention Lifeline. Um But before we do that, I I want to kind of like bust a myth that you alluded to when you were talking earlier. Um so like I'm I'm a recovering theater major, and um, you know, uh I I'm very interested and intrigued in the entertainment world and and theater and film and television and and writing. I've always written and and been creative and um I really want to talk about that myth that you need to be fucked up to be a really talented fill-in-the-blank actor, writer, especially a writer, um, but like musician, anything like that. And that this that people, I think creative people have this fear that like they know they're fucked up, and it's like, well, that's that's the golden ticket. And I have that. I have mental illness, I came from a fucked up family. Maybe I'm an alcoholic also, uh, or I'm addicted to drugs, and like that's the sparkly thing that's keeping me creative. And if I get into treatment, if I go to rehab, if I go, you know, get on psych meds and get a proper diagnosis, that's all gonna go away. Can you please talk about that? And like, was that a fear of yours? Um because I kind of think it was um in some way. So I would just love to hear from you uh about that.

Stability, Medication, And Craft

Chris Russell 10:52

Yeah. Um I think what you're asking me is is uh if I treated myself for my mental illnesses and my all the things that I had going on, that I would lose that creative spark and lose that edge. And uh yeah, it was a hundred percent a fear of mine. Um and the I think the best medicine for me always has been to be creative, you know, to to to remedy that and to heal and to do all of those things is to dive into something and whether it's writing or it's filmmaking or acting and and teaching for me is also another really, really big thing, uh, a great way for me to get that outlet, you know. Um, but I think that you know, you can't create when you are incapacitated, you can't create when you're dead, and I was going to kill myself. So yeah, it's sort of it's you gotta roll the dice there, man. You know, uh I needed help. I I needed help and I got help, and you know, I was medicated, I'm still medicated. That's something I could probably elaborate a little bit more on, my journey with that. But yeah, um getting medicated didn't fuck me over in terms of creativity and art. I actually like when when I leveled out a little bit and I saw a psychiatrist and I started getting medicated, the first thing I did was the artist's way. And and I think I was still kind of clinging on. If you don't know what the artist's way is, for you, whoever's listening, it's like a 16-week program um by Julia Cameron uh that kind of it's just weekly exercises and weekly sort of um little micro habits that you start to incorporate, little exercises that uh recapture your artist, quote unquote. And I did that and I finished it. And I'm in like it like there's like 1% of people who actually finish the damn thing. Usually people drop off on week three, four, five, and I finished it. I got medicated, I leveled out, and I finished the fucking artist's way. It's like climbing the creed of Mount Ephres. It's it's an achievement. Um, if you know what I'm talking about, you're listening to this, you know exactly what I'm talking about. I finished the damn thing. Um, so I didn't think that that was possible. Like I didn't think anything like that was possible. And I was journaling every day, I was writing almost every day. It has done absolutely nothing to stifle my creativity. Getting medicated, getting help, getting uh therapy. Therapy, I've been in therapy for 15 years, but you know uh same. Yeah, yeah, same. Yeah, it's like at the chip, you know. Um but it has never done anything to stifle my creativity. If anything, it's helped. I'm not even if anything, it has helped. It has helped me because I understand the difference between artistic outlet and self-healing, you know, like I can I could balance those two. I'm not perfect, I'm still pretty fucked up, to be honest with you. But at least like, you know, speaking to professionals and getting professional help uh has helped me navigate it. I I would not be here without that. Truly, I would not be here without that.

Gabe Nathan 14:14

And I mean, I don't want to put words in your mouth. I'm curious if if being medicated for bipolar two has made you more reliable. Um, I don't know if I'm I mean, I know that people with bipolar disorder that are untreated can be erratic. There can be issues at work, there can be confrontational behavior or missed appointments or missed auditions or whatever. I'm just wondering, has that helped with like the kind of business end of creativity?

Reliability And Life On Set

Chris Russell 14:47

Um well, the business end for me, and this is probably a different conversation. I I I'm an actor, so as you y'all know, the we've sag after and we've just been having a hell of a time the last few years with the strikes and the pandemic and AI and all that stuff. So that's kind of a uh unknown, if you will, uh a TBD. But in terms of just day-to-day life and survival job work and and everything, like, yeah, I think it it's helped me be a little more level-headed. I absolutely 100% have my moments. I think if any co-worker I had would would listen to this, they would, yeah, no, I I I cop to it. I still I still occasionally lose my temper, I still get frustrated, I still get flustered, I still get anxious. Holy shit, do I get anxious? Um but I think that there's there's a level of recognizing it when it was happening. And I I think 10 years ago, when I was undiagnosed and unmedicated and not willing to confront that, I just had no control and I had no means of self-reflection. You know, I just thought I was right, and I thought you were wrong, I thought you're an asshole, and I'm I can do no wrong and fuck off if you think otherwise. Whereas I think now it there's more accountability within myself and hopefully within others. Um, but again, I'm not I'm not perfect. I I I don't claim to be, you know. Um, but but yeah, I think what I have done has definitely helped, you know.

Narrow Vision Of Suicidality

Gabe Nathan 16:29

Yeah, and and of course, medication and treatment doesn't make you a perfect person, right? Just the way that medication and treatment doesn't take away creativity or talent, it also doesn't take away things like angry outbursts sometimes or frustration or you know, those things that just make us human beings. Um what that work can do is make us more reflective. It can make us take accountability and responsibility where it's needed, it can help mature us. Um, and it can also, I think uh we can sometimes get that like tunnel vision where we just see things one way, our way, this is it, this is the truth. And it can just expand that lens um to see other possibilities. And I I think that the same is true for suicidality. I'm speaking as someone who has also been there at the edge um of contemplating taking his own life. And you know, uh for me, when I have been in that uh space, um and uh you know it's been more times than I care to admit, but the world looks as big as the head of a pin. And the focus is so so narrow, and that outcome seems like it. That's it. That's all there is, and it's the only bright spot, and it's as it's as big as the head of a pin, and everything else around it is dark, right? And it's only if you're able to get out of that space does the world slowly open up and you start to see other possibilities other than taking your own life, right? Um and I again that's that's my experience, and I want to hear yours. Um if you if you're okay talking about that and kind of telling me what that experience is like for you or what that was like for you, um I'm I'm very curious.

Passive vs Active Risk

Chris Russell 18:51

Yeah, uh the the worldview is as small as a pen. That's something I'm gonna take take with me. I think that that's a really beautiful analogy, and I think that that's uh for lack of a better hits the nail on the head. Um but uh you know I one thing I do tell people is I'm I'm definitely never without a suicidal thought or two a day. And I can only speak for myself, but you know, very often I'll just have even sometimes the slightest inconvenience, or I'll feel slighted about something, or you know, somebody won't thank me after I open a door for a dumb little thing. And the the the thought of maybe it would just be easier to kill myself crosses my brain so often it's it's it's almost uh it's almost an afterthought, right? Like it because the because the possibility is always is there, right? And I've gone to that dark side, I almost took my own life. So the option now is. Always on the table, right? I've kind of crossed that threshold. And I don't ignore it. I I acknowledge that it's there, but I but you know when and I think I'm sure we'll get into this, but in my training as a counselor, it's like it's like, do you have thoughts? Yes. Do you have, you know, the means? Yes. Do you have a plan? Yes. Do you have a timeline? Yes. That's when it's like, oh shit, okay. Like I want to do this right now. I want to get in the car and go somewhere to get something to do this thing. Or I want to walk to the kitchen and get blank. That's when it's real. Like that's when it starts to be real. But I'll I'll be playing a fucking video game. I'll be playing Madden. I'll throw my third interception of the game and I'll go fuck a fucking kill myself. You know, like that's and it's not just like hyperbole. It's like shit. And and that's you know, that's how delicate it is. Like that's how real it can be. And that's that's why we need to take it seriously. I know it sounds like I'm not taking it seriously. Trust me, I am. I just I'm I have the wisdom to know the difference between uh this day, fucking bullshit, better off dead, or I think I need to go get this and cut myself. Like those are two very different avenues. Um, and I think that you know, in therapy and and in the work that I've done, like that's that's the that's the the difference that uh that that I've learned to make. Um and it wasn't easy, but I got there.

Gabe Nathan 21:33

And you're you're also you're talking about the the criteria for involuntary inpatient hospitalization, right? The line between, okay, I'm having kind of passive thoughts, and they're just thoughts and they're ephemeral. They come and they go, and they don't latch on, they don't form a plan. There's, you know, not lethal means, there's not a date, there's not a location. I'm not renting a suicide, like a hotel room to go do this, right?

Chris Russell 22:06

Yeah.

Debunking 988 Fears

Gabe Nathan 22:07

To I have all of those things in place. And like you said, okay, now it's go time. You know, now it's time to like it take action here. Um and I think a lot of people, and we're I want to really get into this too, because I know you say this in your essay. A lot of people have a thought that, oh, if I call 988 or if I, you know, text, they're gonna come, you know, send the cavalry and bust my door down at 4 a.m. and drag me out, no matter what I say. And that is just not the truth. Um, or they're gonna geolocate me instantly, they're gonna know where I am, and then they can triangulate myself. People have so many different ideas. I think so many people don't understand how the system works. They don't understand that there are these call centers all over the country and the calls are routed to, they don't understand that they're staffed with like a mix of volunteers and paid. There's so much to that system that people don't get. And I think so much of that that fear and that like, I don't even know what this is, inhibits so many people from reaching out to get help.

Inside The Protocols

Chris Russell 23:21

Absolutely right. And um that was absolutely a fear of mine when I reached out, and that's why I hadn't reached out, you know, um, up until that point. Uh yeah, I it could not be further from the truth. Like you you and I don't want to frame it as you really have to do something for us to do, but you it is. It's like you you have to you have to get to a place in the um protocol where I'm I'm sitting here going, okay, this person has said I have I I have thoughts, I have um a gun at home, and I'm walking home right now to get my gun and do it. Like you would that that really it's for for emergency services to intervene, and that that that's that's where it has to be. And I say this to so many people who have thought about reaching out and who were afraid to because of that. I'm I'm in my three years as a three plus years as a counselor now. Um, the biggest thing that I learned is that when somebody reaches out, that means they wanted to be helped. You know, they wanna, they want to be saved, whether they know it or not, whether however helpless they feel, you know, even for me, I didn't know that when I first reached out, that like I needed help and I wanted help and I was seeking it, but I still wanted to kill myself. Like I still wanted to die. But something was stopping me, and this person on the receiving end of that was there to nurture whatever it is that needed nurturing in me, um, to to not even steer me in a different direction. I guess you can't say that, steering it, but but just to kind of land me softly in a safe place. You know what I mean? Um so no, they won't when you dial 988 and you talk to a counselor and you say, I'm having thoughts of doing this, and because of this, and my life sucks and nothing's gonna get better, there's not an EMS truck outside your apartment uh with a fucking strait jacket to take you to prison for 25 years or whatever the hell it is, public shaming. No, it's not that. You know, the people are the people, A, the people who are talking to you are volunteers and they're there for a reason. I have a reason. I think everybody there has a why. And they want they want you to they want you to feel safe. And calling the cops on somebody for having a suicidal thought is not what's gonna make somebody feel safe. So the that notion needs to be debunked right away. It is only if we feel like we have exhausted all of our capabilities as counselors, and everything that we have tried has not worked, and you are adamantly saying, I'm still going to kill myself with this, by this, in this place at this time. That's when we ping you and send emergency services. And then unfortunately for us, and it's only happened to me a handful, I can count on two hands the amount of times that it's gotten to that point for me in the three plus years that I've been doing this, is uh where I'm just like, oh fuck, okay. Like, because once it's pinged, like once like the authorities are there, we step out and we're we're done. We have we don't know what what happens to you. We don't know, you know. So that's a really scary thing. And that's happened to me before, where you know, I did everything that I could in my power with the help of the supervisor that's with us at all times. Um we're in such good hands with the the the supervisors and the the um the licensed counselors as well. I'm also licensed, but uh I think things are scary until you have information.

Reading “44th In The Q”

Gabe Nathan 27:11

And so I think the more information people have, the better. Um, you know, I think I used to work in a locked-inpatient psychiatric hospital. People would drive past the gates, the iron gates, all the time. We have no idea what happens in there. Um, I didn't have any idea what happened in there until I went to work there. And what you don't know is scary. Um and the more you learn, the more you know. I think the the less scary things are. Um, and I think we we have to make asking for help less scary um for men, for women, for anybody. Um and so I I think that's a huge thing that you do in your piece. Um, and I'm I'm really grateful to you also for that. Um because yeah, we need to be pulling back the curtain and just saying, look, this is what it is. This was my experience, this is what happened, this is what didn't happen. Um and so I don't know, I think that's as good a segue as any into getting into your essay. Um I believe that you sent this to us around five years ago. And I can't I can't believe that you're a licensed counselor now and you're you're you're fielding crisis calls, and we're gonna talk about that after your piece. Um so I without more ado, um, we are gonna get into your essay. It is called 44th in the Q what texting the suicide lifeline taught me about life, mental health, and toxic masculinity by Chris Russell.

unknown 28:46

Oh man.

Aftermath And Opening Up

Stigma, Work, And Bipolar II

Chris Russell 28:47

I haven't read this in a very long time. So uh here we go. Oh boy, okay. My name is Chris Russell. I am a 35-year-old straight white male. I am the eldest of my siblings. I am an actor, filmmaker, and acting coach. I've appeared on major network television shows and feature films. Over the years, I've been a teacher, union delegate, film director, and catering captain. Professionally, I'm a leader. Socially, I'm a guy's guy. I was also physically, verbally, and emotionally abused for most of my childhood. That abuse carried over into my adulthood, where I maintained an array of toxic relationships and endured years of gaslighting out of loyalty. When I was 29, and then again at 30, I was sexually assaulted by two different men in social settings. On September 30th, 2019, I can't I contacted the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline. I had been having thoughts about ending my own life for weeks leading up to that day. But when I woke up that afternoon, things became real. I imagined a clerk asking me if I needed help and not being able to look him in the eye as I asked where to find it. I felt the shock he would endure if he ever found out that he was the last person to see me alive. I contemplated what I would have to install in my ceiling to fully support all two hundred pounds of me. I played out my funeral, who would deliver my eulogy, what my Facebook wall would look like. Then, most vividly, I felt the rope being burned around my neck. The heat, the strain, the coarse strings scratching my skin, the air escaping my lungs. These thoughts began to course through my veins. I was slowly moving out of fantasy and into impulse. I have a wonderful family, an amazing partner, lots of friends, and a solid career. I own my own coaching business. I've made movies and created more art than I could ever have imagined at this point in my life. In that moment, though, none of those things mattered. On that day, I was entrenched in an overwhelming emotional quicksand that was swallowing me whole. I felt worthless, disgusted, and above all hopeless. To top it off, the guilt and shame I felt for even feeling this way was just another dagger. Do I really have it that bad? This person overcame this and that. What makes your life so tragic? Those things probably didn't even happen to you. You're making it up, fucking liar. I drove around a little bit, getting within a block of that hardware store. I made an impulsive U-turn back towards my house. I considered flooring it and crashing it into the side of a Dunkin' Donuts. I don't remember the exact moment of clarity or if there was even one, but at some point I made a choice that saved my life, but not without obstacle. I didn't know what actually happens when one calls the National Suicide Prevention Hotline. I thought they would call 911 and send an ambulance or the cops to your house, then lock you up in a psych ward. I was truly ignorant. That uncertainty, in and of itself, was more daunting than the actual act of taking my own life. I saw a spot and pulled the car over. It took several attempts to parallel park. I punched the steering wheel as hard as I could, and I screamed till I ran out of air. Quivering and torn between moving into the house or putting the car back in gear, I took out my phone. When I called, I had to give my zip code. I was given the option to speak to someone, or I could use the website and speak to a counselor via chat. I chose to speak to someone because texting in this situation sounded ridiculous to me. Then I was put on hold. A very long hold. A recklessly long hold. I felt like I was waiting to dispute a credit card charge. I jumped out of the car and walked in my door. Still on hold. I took my shoes off and hid in my room. I didn't want my roommates to hear anything. Still on hold. Fuck it. I hung up and opened my laptop. Might as well give this chat thing a shot. I wondered how many fucking people have died waiting on hold to talk to someone. I was angry. And as I realized much later on in therapy, that moment of anger was a very good thing. So, sitting on my bed with my laptop, I was put into the chat queue where I was 44th in line. I had 44 people ahead of me. I came this far. I might as well stick this out. I sat and waited and waited and waited. 45 minutes later, I was 10th in the queue. My anger slowly turned to amusement. How could it possibly take this long to talk to someone when you're in crisis? And what the fuck am I supposed to do now? I've just been staring at the screen. And then it occurred to me I hadn't thought about killing myself since I got angry at being on hold. It was the first outward emotion I'd experienced all day. So I clicked a new tab on the browser. I opened ESPN.com. I clicked on New York Mets News. I read an article. Then the guilt and shame mocks monster kicked down the door. Are you really suicidal or are you just being dramatic? Look at you. You're reading about baseball. You're fine. Then a chirp from the other tab. Still there? Christine is waiting to talk to you. And there was Christine on the other end. She asked me to explain the situation. Asked if I had already done harm, physical harm to myself. I answered. I told her all the things. All the pain, all the wallowing and hopelessness, the feeling alone in all of this. Christine sat on the other end, wherever she was, waiting for me to finish. Then she asked a simple question. And what would suicide do to solve these problems? I'll admit, when I read that question, it made me angry. It felt irresponsible and judgmental, almost like a game of chicken. Okay, guy, let's see what you're really made of. You're gonna do this or not? And so I sat with it for a few moments. I read the question over and over. My anger slowly turned to sadness. I answered, I'm not sure. For the next forty-five minutes, Christine stayed with me. I talked about my history of abuse, unhealthy eating and drinking habits, my relationships, the never-ending battle I've endured with shame. And she listened. Or read. It was like writing a long, cathartic journal entry, with my journal sporadically interjecting the right things to say. In those forty-five minutes, the anger, sadness, shame, all the rest of the heap came something I hadn't felt in months. Heard. Seen. Understood. That led way to relief. In that moment I understood why I was 44th in the queue. I had multiple friends and family members reach out in those weeks leading up to my suicidal day. Everyone knew something was off. And I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I'm sure if you're relating to any of this, you understand the burden aspect. My pain didn't feel significant enough to make it a central point for anyone else. The shame I was experiencing for feeling this way was wrapped in a cloak of guilt for not being able to be myself around people. So in turn, I completely shut down from my partner, friends, and family. And there was, on many levels, comfort in the suffering. After I signed out, I was able to get myself up and make breakfast. Then I napped for three hours. When I woke up, I got out of my bedroom and watched some TV. I didn't spring into action, alive and ready to conquer. I was simply still alive. My recovery has taken time. Months. It took a couple of weeks to confide in somebody about what happened that day. And it was not the person I thought it would be. But this person just sat and listened, kind of like Christine had done. They didn't make me feel judged or alone. They didn't say things like, I would have been so angry with you. They simply heard my story, expressed relief that I'm still here, and shared some struggles of their own. I told another person and another. Same result. The more people to whom I opened up, the better I felt. And the more people with whom I shared, the more safe people felt sharing their experiences with me. I was blessed shortly after with health insurance. The first time in years. I set up an appointment with a psychiatrist. I should note, it took six weeks, multiple phone calls and emails to get an appointment for a non-emergency. These things take far too much time. I was prescribed a medication that treats bipolar disorder. I have a family history. For years, I suspected something was off in me, yet I was sure I suffered from only depression. Getting clarity from a doctor changed how I approach my moods and how I acknowledge them in the moment. The ups and downs, big or small, were a large part of how I can sink so low at any given time. I initially resisted this diagnosis because I was I was afraid it could be a thing that makes people not want to hire me, that I would have to disclose my newfound diagnosis with anyone who would want to work with me professionally, would fear me going off my meds, thus not being able to build a trust. I worried that people would judge or shame me because of my bipolar disorder. And that fear came from my own narrative of so-and-so is bipolar. They're fine one minute and a total so-and-so the next. It was a narrative I got from the stigma regarding bipolar disorder. That we are in some way untrustworthy because we have a chemical imbalance that triggers inconsistent moods. As a writer, I rely heavily on feeling inspired. I chase the dragon of feeling up when I'm in the throes of a great story. As an actor, I rely on being able to tap into my emotions. The thought of compromising those tools that have helped me get to where I am as an artist was scarier than any of those social stigmas. I'm new to this medication game, but I will tell you, I have never felt safer from my own moods than in the day I made the choice to acknowledge and treat them. When I'm acting or writing, I'm so much more present because it's so much easier to be cognizant of my artistic boundaries because I didn't have any in the first place. The more people I talk to, the more I hear of their own battles with depression and bipolar disorder. People I wouldn't have thought in a million years. Somewhere in my long road back, I floated a post on social media regarding a project that deals with the stigmas of mental illness, particularly in men. Now, up until this point, I had only confided in women about that day. I felt safer talking about this with women. Since I was a little boy, I only felt safe around women. All of my past abusers were men. Even now at 35, I still have a guard up in a masculine environment. I've never taken a ball busting and just fucking with you, bro. That, coupled with the incessant pressure to be good at sports while knowing how to fight and emulating what it is to be manly, I grew up lost. There's always been a blur between the good-natured ribbing and the harmful verbal hazing I've endured since as long as I could remember. What I'm getting at is when I posted that floater idea on social media, I had several men come to me in private stating that if I needed help with anything regarding this project, to please keep them in the loop, that they also had something they'd like to contribute, but weren't ready to tell me about it. Why are we remaining anonymous? Do we believe that in an era of oversharing and constantly chasing the fix of validation, opening up about your vulnerabilities, insecurities, traumas, and mental illnesses will somehow discredit or disavow you? Can we let go of the idea that your ability to remain strong for people and to keep your business to yourself and act like a fucking man is something that's going to keep us evolving? You can get drunk at a tailgate with a dude and also cry to them about a breakup. It's called building trust. I'm not saying I'm innocent in all this. I'm fresh off a big aha moment in a series of little recurring aha moments. I have been toxic with people. I have been disrespectful towards women. I myself have been a bully. I have made terrible mistakes. I was let loose in a world where I had shit in my soul that I didn't address. An unresolved boy in a grown man's body. I acted out for the majority of my twenties. My evolution only came with professional help and a lot of listening. If I had the tools to address some of the stuff at a younger age, I may have been able to avoid some of these mistakes. Who knows? I might be more successful, more evolved. But at no point did I feel like I lived in a society where expressing that vulnerability felt safe. Especially for a straight man. Toxic masculinity is a thing. And we could fix it. So what now? This was my story. If you'd like to share yours, use the hashtag 44th in the Q. Or if you're not ready to put a face on your story, email 44th in the Q at gmail.com and I'll share it for you anonymously. The more men who share their story, the more we can help in the fight to destigmatize these myths that keep us from being the best manly men we can be.

Gabe Nathan 46:25

Fuck yeah. Wow. So wow. Say more. What was it? What was it like to go back to that? To go back to that essay, to go back to that time, to go back to that Chris Russell. What was that like for you?

Men, Vulnerability, And Trust

Chris Russell 46:46

Oh boy. The one thing that struck me was um the notion of Christine. Um you know, the I think a lot of counselors do it under a pseudonym. Not a lot, but for the most part, not for the most I don't know. Who am I? Who am I to speak to then? Um do, some don't. Some do, some don't. Uh man. It just I I just wonder how many other people she had that day, how many people she's had before since. Like, I still think about that person, you know, like I still think about uh what that person's walk of life was. I don't even know where to start. I mean, 35, that'd be nice. Um green. Yeah, yeah. Uh I mean, I think a lot of the things still still stand, you know. Um one thing that has hit me on a personal level, and it's something that I've been dealing with, and I'll be open with it. Um, I'm losing my health insurance in July. Uh, you know, because of this big, beautiful bill. Um like so many people in my life, I'm I'm having my health insurance taken from me and I am having my medication. Who do who I don't know. I don't know what the fuck's gonna happen. I I don't know what's gonna happen. So I've been working really closely with my psychiatrist to come up with a game plan in case come July, I don't have access to health insurance and I can't afford the mood stabilizers that I've been taking for the last six years. Um, and the uh the anxiety medication that I take. Um, so we we've actually come up with a plan to wean me off of it to see what happens, to see if I could, you know, after six years, maybe maybe it is time to try and see what it what life is like without it, using the habits and the tools that I've built over the years. And that's fucking sad. That's not that's beyond sad. That's that's a disgrace.

Gabe Nathan 49:07

It's it's it's a disgrace, it's a national disgrace.

Chris Russell 49:10

Disgraceful. It is disgraceful. It is, it is, he's the fucking devil. So um sorry, he just is, he's the fucking devil. Um so I now you know I'm gonna spend the next six months uh carefully trial and erroring what it's gonna be like tonight. And I'm I'm I'm in the I'm in a space where I'm thinking, I have I might have to hoard medication now. I might have to hoard it so I can maybe get six more months out of it, and then maybe something will change next year, or maybe the you know what I mean? So living in this space just sucks. So reading that and and reading the line, uh I was finally got health insurance. Blessed with health insurance. I finally got blessed with it. And now you're cursed. And now I'm fucking now I'm fucked again, you know. Um because I was a part of it too. That was a part of why I didn't seek help, because I didn't have fucking health insurance. Of course, you know, yep. I I think I was at this time, I think I was seeing a therapist like once a month out of pocket. I I don't remember, but anyway, um yeah, like the those are just kind of the surface things that that struck me. Um I think that uh the question that I got from from Christine, I that's not a question I think we ask anymore. Um I I you know we usually when when it's it's it's like uh when you tell them all the things that's going on, then it's like, okay, have you have you had thoughts of suicide? You know, it's never like what would suicide do to I I would never say that to a uh a person. So I mean it worked for me, but I think that the protocols and the line of speaking that's definitely changed. And it's changed in the three plus years that I've been doing it. Like it's changed always evolving, sure. It's always evolving. Like the the questions now are different, much different than what they were a couple of years ago. Um, but I think they're more efficient and more effective. And I, you know, not that we want to get rid of them, but it keeps them on the line a little for a little bit less time because the queue can get really, really full, as I said in that article. So it's not a matter of getting rid of them, it's a matter of efficiency. Um and you know, man. So yeah, those those I I definitely felt some feels.

Gabe Nathan 51:34

I I know, I know, and that's and and particularly when it's I mean, the mere mention of the name Christine, whether it's a pseudonym or not, it it got you. And I mean, and now you are Christine. Um and I can you just talk about that? Like about how did you how did you decide that you wanted to volunteer? Um, how did you decide that you wanted this to be part of your life? And how did you feel like stable and safe enough to say, okay, I can go to the to the other side of this?

Insurance Loss And Medication

Chris Russell 52:17

Um it's a little hard to talk about, but I will I will do my best. Um, so my mother had um multiple episodes of that nature. Um and it there was one in particular that was really, really bad that had us she went missing. We we looked for her for over a day and a half. Uh she sent us a goodbye, you know, it was it was very real. And um my my cousin found her uh and she was alive and she it took a long time for her to get back to a good a better place. And I, you know, for admittedly, and this is the last like 10 years of her life, um I I had a wall up with her. I had a little bit of a wall up. I I didn't I never really let her in again after that. Um, and it is the great regret that I have to this point in my life. Um but I I had always been interested in just that counseling, being a suicide lifeline person. Um, but I didn't know where to start. I didn't know if you needed school. Like I just I kind of casually wanted to do it. And then when I reached out and I got saved, I then it the fire started raging for a little while. And you know, when when that uh uh episode happened, I was it was like five months before COVID. So COVID hits um, you know, right smack in the middle of my recovery. Um and uh put it put a damper and a dent in a lot of things um for everybody. Um and I but I also had a lot more time on my hands and I started to research it and I realized that it's something that anybody can do from home. And now, you know, people are mostly texting. Uh so I in honor of her, in honor of me, I decided to give it a shot. Um and I did the it's like three or four months of of training, it's a lot of hours, it's a lot of work. Um, and I think if it weren't for COVID, I wouldn't have had the time to do it. Like I just wouldn't have had the the the space to do it. So um I got certified, I did my first few shifts, um and uh and then she died. Um you know, and I never I never I never got to tell her that I did it, that that it was something that I was doing, and I never got to tell her that like it was inspired by you know whatever force kept her alive on that day and whatever other day that she she attempted. Um so it's part of the reason why I still do it. Um there's you know, because you know, she died of a heart attack, you know, she died suddenly. So I I there's a lot of um unresolved stuff that we had on my end. She loved me con unconditionally, you know. Um, but I I definitely I definitely had a wall up with her. And I um it's it's it's my deepest regret. Uh, but I I hope, you know, and I I I definitely still communicate with my mom in ways that I probably talk to her more now than I did when she was alive. Um but um but that that was the big part of the why. And and after, you know, when she died, I I took I took a little bit of time away from the platform because I was like, I don't know if I could do this now um while I'm grieving. Um but when I got back on it, that became really healing for me to be able to be there for people and to be able to hear other people's stories. And there was something so cathartic about it, and it felt like it was you know, there was a greater good there, um, not only for me, but uh just in keeping keeping my mom's spirit. So um, yeah, like that that's uh yeah.

Speaker 1 57:04

And I think you're talking to her right now.

Chris Russell 57:09

Um talk to her a lot.

Gabe Nathan 57:13

And it's just it's an extraordinary way to honor her and to honor your saving. And I I think it's very moving that you use that word. Um and yeah, I just I just can't tell you how grateful I am that you exist. Um I think I just think the um that the world's really lucky to to have you on the other end of that screen, um and to have you as a voice for men in particular um who are are not where you are right now, but can get there.

Speaker 1 57:57

Um I I really believe that.

Chris Russell 58:02

Thanks, Gabe.

Gabe Nathan 58:06

Um I'm just so grateful to you um for spending some time with me today. And um if you ever want to submit another essay, the door's always open, Chris.

Chris Russell 58:17

I I'd love to. Um I do have a sub stack where I talk about all this stuff too, as well. Um, you know, if you're ever interested in checking that out. It's called Manic Impressive.

Evolving Crisis Training

Gabe Nathan 58:28

Absolutely will, but don't put it all there. Save something for us, okay?

Chris Russell 58:33

I will.

Gabe Nathan 58:34

Well thank you, thank you, thank you again um for spending some time with me. And I'm just wishing you all the best.

Chris Russell 58:42

Uh Gabe, thank you. And I can't uh I I I need to say this that um you you are the first publication to accept and publish one of my essays, so I am forever grateful and indebted to you. Um so anything for you guys. I think what you do is wonderful. I think you're an extraordinary human being, and I think that um OC87 is just an incredible platform that needs to be bigger. So thank you, sir.

Gabe Nathan 59:09

We're gonna keep doing it until the wheels come off. So thank you, Chris.

Chris Russell 59:14

Yeah, thank you.

Gabe Nathan 59:20

Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors. We are so, so grateful to Chris Russell, a two-time recovery diaries author. He's also an actor, filmmaker, and acting coach. Some of his recent credits have been FBI, Blue Bloods, Wu Tang in American Saka, and Law and Order SVU. He is an advocate for men's mental health awareness. He's had essays published across multiple platforms, and he does volunteer work for the crisis text line. And we are so grateful he does. Before we leave here, we want to remind You to check out our website, recoverydiaries.org. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos, and content about mental health, empowerment, and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast episode, essay, or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. Until next time, take good care.