Until There’s a Cure for Mental Illness, There’s NAMI-Man: Nick Emeigh | RDID; 214

Recovery Diaries in Depth guest Nick Emeigh and our show's host Gabe Nathan are old friends, both of whom live with mental health challenges. They're both passionate, compassionate, vulnerable, and unafraid (while simultaneously being afraid of pretty much everything). That's a lot of what makes them good friends, and so much of what makes this interview a must-hear. 

Right out of the gate, their conversation goes right towards suicide. And it's no accident that it happens that way: Nick just came to this interview from a Bucks County school that recently lost a young man to suicide. Nick helps people in Bucks County every single day who are contemplating suicide, have attempted, family and community members who have suffered a suicide loss. He lives and breathes mental illness and suicide every single day as Executive Director of NAMI-Bucks County, PA. Nick has survived multiple suicide attempts, he is in addiction recovery, he is a peer, an advocate, a mental health superhero (watch this film to be acquainted with the coolest guy in tights since Peter Pan) and he never stops urging politicians, changemakers, and community members to pay attention, to listen.

To listen to stories. To his story. 

Nick shares that story with refreshing honesty: a tale of intense bullying and early suicidal thoughts, an eating disorder shaped by control and approval, addiction, psychosis, trauma and grief. But what makes recovery sustainable or even possible? Therapy, medication, self-care, peer support, and the work of building NAMI Bucks County into a network that reaches tens of thousands through school education, support groups, and a warm line; and it's so, so much more. It's Nick's irrepressible personality that is heartwarming, sincere, and worthy of attention. So pull up a chair alongside these two old friends and listen. And share. And feel.

Conversations like the ones on this podcast can sometimes be hard, but they’re always necessary. If you or someone you know is struggling, please consider visiting wannatalkaboutit.com. If you or someone you know is considering suicide, please call, text, or chat 988.

https://recoverydiaries.org/

Transcript

Welcome And Why Nick Matters

Gabe Nathan 0:00

Hello, this is Recovery Diaries in Depth. I'm your host, Gabe Nathan. Thanks so much for joining us. Very happy to have you here. We are so happy and lucky to have as our guest for today Nick Emeigh. He is the executive director of NAMI Bucks County. That's the National Alliance on Mental Illness. He has survived several suicide attempts and struggles with mental health challenges and addiction. He is NAMI Man, a mental health superhero who flies all around Bucks County and beyond, including in a documentary film that we made about Nick several years ago. And we are just so proud of the work that he does and of my personal friendship with him. So glad he's here today. Each week, we'll bring you a recovery diaries contributor, folks who have shared their mental health journey with us through essay or video format. We want to see where they are on their mental health journey since initially being published on our website. Our goal is to continue supporting our diverse community by having conversations here on our podcast to follow up and see what has shifted, what has changed, and what new things have emerged. We're so happy to have you along for this journey. We want to remind you to follow our show for new and back episodes at recoverydiaries.org. There, like the podcast, you'll find stories of mental health, empowerment, and change. You can also sign up for our mailing list there so you never miss a new podcast episode, essay, or film. And you can find this podcast pretty much anywhere you get your podcasts. We appreciate your comments and feedback about our show. It helps us improve, make changes, and grow. And of course, make sure to like, share, and subscribe. Nick Emeigh thank you so much for joining me today on Recovery Diaries in Depth. I love you and I love to see your face, even though our listeners can't see your face. It sucks. Um, but uh I'm so glad that you're here. Thanks for joining me.

Nick Emeigh 2:06

Oh, Gabe, thanks for having me. I love you too. And uh this is uh the culmination of many years of advocacy and friendship. And it's just this is wonderful. Thank you.

Gabe Nathan 2:19

As you know, I don't prepare for this podcast or anything else, but we had a very brief interaction this morning because I had to delay the recording of this for an hour. Um, and you were very lovely about it, and and Pete, our audio engineer, was very lovely about it too. Um, and you mentioned where you were this morning. And I think that's where I want to start um our conversation. Where were you this morning? What were you doing, and why were you there?

Supporting A School After Suicide

Gabe Nathan 2:46

And I think you letting us in on this is gonna give our listeners a really lovely window into who Nick Emeigh is and the kind of things that he's involved in that maybe people might not think about.

Nick Emeigh 3:00

Yeah. Well, I'll I'll be a little more general about it because it's you know, it's it touches on on something sensitive, and I'll let everybody listening know. Um, you know, we'll be talking about mental health and suicide. I mean, uh it shouldn't be a surprise if you're listening. Right. Um, but uh we did have a unfortunately a young person um die by suicide at a at a local school. And um, you know, uh oftentimes we have school districts and admins who want to just brush that under the rug. They think that if they talk about it or celebrate a life that we've lost or, you know, just just keep someone's memory alive and honor the memory, that that will cause other people to think about and plan for their own suicides. And, you know, we know from research that that isn't what happens. And so, you know, if you don't talk about it and you don't, you know, make it known that, you know, suicide is way more common than everybody thinks, um, you know, then then we do a disservice to the whole school. So what we've been doing over the past couple of weeks is supporting not just the the students in the loss of their friend and you know, their their peer. Um we're supporting the staff and we're supporting the families as well. And so this morning we just did a little special something to to remember this young man. And uh, you know, it it's it's it's something that the students wanted to engage NAMI in as well. So several things that we'll be doing, a breakfast. Um, you know, uh we'll be be joining them next week for the in a an awareness day for Mental Health Awareness Month and you know, having the kids make friendship bracelets and you know, NAMI Bucks is known for the positive post-its, so we're taking those into the school, and uh, we're gonna have kids do a take one leave one of the positive post-its. But this morning's breakfast was particularly special um to remember this young man and uh to honor what his favorite things were. And uh, you know, we we had some tears and we had some joyful moments. Um, but what's really important that comes out of, and we'll talk more about NAMI and the programs and everything like that, but what what's really special that comes from any interaction that we have with schools and and with the students is that they open up to us because we're so real and accessible. And, you know, we have kids coming up to us and asking, what can I do to help a friend? You know, I have a friend who's struggling. Um, I don't know exactly what to do or say. And, you know, we get to help facilitate those conversations and that support that people need and are lacking, um, that schools are often afraid to provide, to be honest with you. Um and so it's it's really been an honor to be able to go into this school and to educate the kids, to help them to honor and remember their friend who died by suicide, and actually be able to say the word and to talk

Why We Must Say Suicide

Nick Emeigh 6:33

about it. Suicide is not a bad word. Like on a lot of social media platforms and on YouTube, you know, you can't say that. You you have to say unalive or you know, whatever. I know. And it's it's it's obnoxious. And I shouldn't say that. Um, well, I mean, if I'm not you you just did, and we're not gonna edit it out.

Gabe Nathan 6:54

So you said it. It's not, I'll say I'll go further. It's obnoxious and it's bullshit. And it is further, it is further stigmatizing and further shoving this thing under the rug, and it's making advocacy incredibly hard. Um as you know, I I've been doing suicide advocacy for a long time, and I refuse to write unalived. I refuse to write F U exclamation point. I know fuck that because I can't, I cannot participate in that. I cannot participate in the in the obscenification of a simple factual word, a cause of death, a means of death that we are trying to prevent. And you can't prevent something that you can't talk about.

Nick Emeigh 7:42

Exactly. A hundred percent. And, you know, if we go in to schools and to, you know, other community programs and things, and one of the biggest education pieces around suicide is that you have to talk about it and you have to say the word. And, you know, it if if we can't do that, and if we're telling people that, you know, we don't say commit suicide, we say die by suicide. Suicide is not a a crime or a sin. But if we're talking about it on social media as though it is, who's right and who's wrong? You know, right. We're we're reinforcing that. Yeah. We go by research and you know, data is important, and you know, research and data shows us that you know, we it w language matters and the way that we talk about it matters. So, you know, if if we're saying one thing on social media and then we're saying another in our education programs, then you know, that's confusing. And kids and young adults and adults are gonna go with, you know, what the status quo is. And it appears as though the status quo is su asterisk pound

Social Media Censorship Versus Prevention

Nick Emeigh 9:00

sign.

Gabe Nathan 9:00

Well, people are just people are bowing down to it because they're like, well, so and this is I I want to talk to you about this. How do you how do you square the the hypocrisy behind doing that? Behind, okay, well, this is what social media is telling me I have to do, um with I with the need to get the message out um to say, okay, if I don't do that, then I'm gonna get shadow banned and nobody's gonna see very important uh prevention and education materials um if I use the full word. Uh or if I if I don't do it, then I'm participating in that stigma. So what what's an advocate to do? As my great-grandmother used to say, what's gonna be? So what what do you do? What what how do you, you know, you Nick Emeigh and you organizationally NAMI Bucks deal with that?

Nick Emeigh 9:57

I mean, talking about it, we have to let people know that this is what's going on. And I do it anyway. I just I do it anyway. I there there are no, you know me, you know, I I'm an open book. There are no holds barred on my story, on my lived experience, on, you know, talking about mental health and suicide. And I just keep going and I steamroll right through it. Um, you know, we have we have a big following on on social media, and fortunately I haven't experienced the the shadow ban and everything. But what I'm doing is participating in advocacy with these social media companies, with Google who controls YouTube. And, you know, it it may not be me directly, but I contribute to the advocacy that goes into stopping that from happening. So, you know, I'm fortunate to be part of a national organization that advocates against those things. And so what I would invite everybody to do is, you know, we work with um Mental Health America, with American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, the JED Foundation, which they just kind of merged. Um we work with them to let companies like and the CEOs and and the powers that be at Google and you know, Meta and everything know that that is harmful and it does a disservice. Now, whether or not they listen and do anything about it is a different story, but with any form of advocacy that we've ever done, it's about pounding it into their heads until they get it. And oftentimes, you know, like even with you can compare this to the school setting. You know, people aren't willing to It's very comparable.

Gabe Nathan 11:51

It's exactly what I was thinking. Yeah.

Nick Emeigh 11:53

You you people you people don't like to take action on difficult or challenging, and I I you can't see my air quotes, but you know, situations. I can hear them until something happens to them. Yeah. And so, you know, what we're good at is making a personal connection to, you know, who whomever we're speaking with and, you know, whatever company we need, you know, change in within. And, you know, connecting on that personal level, saying, you know, everybody knows someone. I mean, there's no family that is free of mental health conditions and, you know, a a touch of suicide. And so, you know, if you would not want this for your own kids, you know, if you would not want this for your own family, then why are we promoting it across a massive platform? It's it's doing a real disservice. And, you know, they're always afraid of liability and getting sued.

Gabe Nathan 12:54

And they're listening to the lawyers and the risk managers and shitting their pants while they're doing it, right? So it's it's an uphill battle. You're you're really going head to head against fear.

Nick Emeigh 13:05

Yes, absolutely. And so, you know, what what we try to promote is, you know, it it it you can be afraid and do things anyway. And, you know, you can and you just you you can't if you're chasing the dollar and and you know, appeasing shareholders and you know, appeasing the risk management team in your organization, and you're literally, you know, doing a disservice to the people that we are trying to help. And within your family, you've experienced mental illness and mental health conditions and suicide. You know, you're part of the problem. And, you know, i I what I would love to do, and what, you know, CEOs and legislators and everything, what they love is a picture and a handshake that they're doing something good that they can post on social media or put in the newspaper or whatever. So, you know, we kind of do that sort of a thing. But, you know, what we encourage is we don't want you in the newspaper for the wrong reasons. I mean, and by newspaper I mean email now. Right. Because, you know. Or social media, yeah. Or social media. Um, but rather we'd love to have you and and promote that you are doing the right thing. And so do the right thing, and then we will uplift you and you know, celebrate that. But, you know, to date, um, it's been really challenging to move the needle with that language and having to censor and and things like that. So in the meantime, I am doing it anyway. And uh, you know, it's it's it's been pretty successful. And I think one thing about me and you know, this affiliate of of the National Alliance on Mental Illness that I run in Bucks County is that everyone knows I'm real. I'm the same way all the time, no matter what. If I'm up on a panel, if I'm, you know, like whatever I'm doing, I'm I am the same. And that just being consistent like that kind of does move the needle, maybe a little slower than it it would in any other way. But, you know, I'm just the same all the time. And, you know, I think people know what to expect from me. We don't get our account doesn't get reported and you know, on Instagram and everything like that. But uh, you know, I think that being an example like you, Gabe, with with your social media accounts and not censoring the word, not censoring yourself, actually speaking candidly about, you know, suicide and mental health, I think will set this a standard. And we have to show them that, hey, you know, nothing's happening to us. We we're not getting sued for talking about suicide and and things like that. And so being an example is is another great thing that you're already doing, I'm already doing, and NAMI's already doing. But uh yeah. But it's still hard.

The Cost Of Telling Your Story

Gabe Nathan 16:16

It is you you mentioned hard and it's annoying. Yeah. You mentioned a little bit ago, you use the phrase my life is an open book. Um and I I I want to get into that book a little bit, uh, if you don't mind. And I I want to do this with with respect and deference to this to a very real fact about you that I've known for a very long time, which is that you tell your story a lot as a function of necessity, because of the work that you do, because of the organization that you represent, because you understand that that's like we do at Recovery Diaries. I mean, all we do is is tell stories, tell our stories, tell other people's stories. You understand how important and impactful and moving that is. And talking about moving the needle, that's a huge part of the way that we do it. So but I do want to uh ask you to share a little bit of your story with our listeners, but I do want to do it in a way that acknowledges how hard that is to do and that I don't feel good about asking you to do it because you do it so much. And there's just something about what I'm feeling in asking you to do that that's I I feel like I like I don't I don't like that I'm asking you to do that. And I wonder is there a toll on you from doing this so much? And that like doing it in a way that it has like a there's a rhythm to how you do it, I'm sure. And I know this because I I tell my story, um, air quotes. Um, and there is I fall into a way of doing it that is sometimes it maybe doesn't feel authentic or organic, or I'm editing parts out to protect myself or others, or telling it uh uh changing certain things based on where I am or who I'm talking to. This is a very long-winded uh introduction to this question. But I don't know. I I don't even know where that that leaves me. But I I do just want to acknowledge that it's it's a hard thing to do and a hard thing to ask of you. And I'll just plop that pile of shit in your lap and see how you respond to it.

Nick Emeigh 18:53

I'll tell you this. It takes a toll on me to tell my story in situations and settings where I know that I am not held in such esteem as I am here and with you. Or if I am in a room of people who I know don't respect the lived experience portion of the mental health journey, like sharing that lived experience. Um, and you know, I have to do it anyway. It's, you know, it's it's speaking to um some corporations and everything like that can be challenging because you go into a room and you don't know who all is in there, and you you know that there are some some attitudes in there that, you know, oh, that not in my family, not in my backyard. I don't, you know, I've never heard of mental illness and I I you know all this stuff. We we hear everything. So that's that's challenging. Um helping other people with as much empathy as I have can be a bit draining. But I will tell you that telling my story in a space like this, where I know that you and you know, your listeners are uh value what I have to say and my lived experience and the journey. Um, it's it actually isn't draining at all. It's the opposite. It fills my cup and it's an honor to do it. And um, I think that it saves lives. And so I'm always happy to tell my story. And in safe settings like this, it actually allows me to uh at first I was ashamed of everything I'll I'll I'll tell you today. I was totally ashamed of it. Um and so at first when I first got started, yeah, it was a little draining, but uh it allows me to take my story back and to own it and to be less ashamed of it. So, you know, thank you for your your regard for my feelings and and my capacity and everything like that. But, you know, Gabe, it's mental health awareness month. I am so busy right now and I'm honest with you because this fills my cup. So yes, it can be difficult. Um, it can also, and I'll I'll I should share this as well. Um, I take I I live with schizoaffective disorder and some other diagnoses. I take mental health medication at three o'clock today. I have therapy, and that helps my sharing my story be less draining and less intense. And, you know, because I process it every Friday in therapy. So, you know, you can't I shouldn't say you can't, because you can. You should you if you're a mental health advocate and you're not in therapy and you're not taking care of yourself and you're going out. And you're sharing your story, you know, multiple times a week and, you know, helping other people and just emptying your cup. I hate I hate to use trait, you know, expressions or whatever, like, you know, but filling your cup is kind of a good way to illustrate that. Um and you're just pouring and pouring and pouring from your cup and you're not doing anything to help yourself. I mean, I learned the hard way that that will burn you out and drain you.

Gabe Nathan 22:28

But, you know, if you're taking it And potentially be very be damaging, very damaging.

Nick Emeigh 22:33

Yes. I mean, you know, like I've had stretches where we are so busy and I'm just go, go, go, go, go. And I say, oh, I can skip therapy. I'll just do it next week, and then it becomes next week and next week. Uh, I learned the hard way that that will burn you out. So, you know, take care of yourselves. You deserve it. And, you know, I have a complex a bit. You know, I've been through lots of things in my life, and I feel that I'm alive today and kind of on I don't want to say borrowed time, but you know, reclaimed time that I didn't expect to have. And so this time is not really mine, and I should be giving it to other people constantly. And, you know, that's not really, that's not healthy, you know, and I didn't feel like I deserved self-care and help and therapy and all that stuff. But I do. And if you're listening and you're wondering if if you, you know, should just be a full servant to everyone with mental health conditions and survivors of suicide. Um, no, that's not all there is to you. And that's not all there is to me. So please, like fill your cups. Go to therapy if you're able to. It's not accessible for everyone. And I, you know, we should maybe talk about that a little bit, but uh, you know, we're we're trying to change that. Um, but if it's accessible to you, please, you know, engage in therapy. If it's not accessible to you, call NAMI. We'll we'll connect you to some services that are are reduced cost or free. Uh, we provide free support and everything. It's not a replacement for therapy, but it is better than nothing. And uh, you know, so just take care of yourself in whatever way you're able to, whatever is manageable, and just know that you deserve it. It you may need you may need that reminder. You deserve it. You deserve the the care and support that you give to other people. So um, you want me to talk about my experience a little bit?

Gabe Nathan 24:40

I very much so, yeah, I do. Because I and and really the reason why is because well, for multiple reasons, but A, because it is so important and it is so it is so impactful, but also because I think that everybody who gets into the mental health field, whether it's on the clinical side or on the advocacy side, um, there is something in their lives that propels them to that. You know, you don't become the executive director of a local NAMI chapter because you have no personal experience with mental health challenges, right? So it's it's there that drive go ahead. What's what's that? You don't do it to become wealthy. God damn right. So, you know, so yeah, why? What what what led you to this point? Um I want to kind of trace that route and and know a little bit more.

Nick Emeigh 25:38

Yeah, absolutely.

Bullying And An Eating Disorder Spiral

Nick Emeigh 25:40

Um, so I uh had several crisis points. I'm one of those people that everyone wondered if I if I had a rock bottom, um, because I just kept going and going and going. Um, but you know, to to know me now, uh, I am such a different person than I was, you know, 12 years ago when my dad died and I found recovery, um, not really by choice, but by necessity. Um, and so, you know, if you if you look at me, uh you probably and a lot of people ask, like, Nick, are you sure that you have mental illness? And are you sure that you have schizoaffective disorder? There's no look to it. There's no look to it. And there was no look to it when I was young either. So I grew up in a household that, you know, I I my mom was amazing. My grandparents were amazing. Um, you know, I had a great upbringing, typical, as typical as as I guess it could get. We all everyone has problems. Um, but you know, we just didn't talk about them. Uh we didn't talk about mental health. We didn't talk about the fact that my uncle had schizophrenia and lived with the disease of addiction all of his life. And that, you know, at holiday time when, you know, we would all be sitting around the dining room table and, you know, making merry and everything like that, and my uncle would come in, blast it out of his mind, and my grandfather would have to put him in the shower with all of his clothes on. We used to make fun of him and call him a junkie. And, you know, it wasn't until I was, I guess, college age that I I, you know, he he lived with schizophrenia and he medicated it. And um it it it just I I wish I could, if there's anything I could go back and and change with the knowledge that I have now, uh, I do think that we could have helped him if had we had the education. Uh, but I would also go back and give my parents some education too, because you know, dealing with me was not easy. I started to experience uh challenges. The first time I thought about suicide was in second grade. Um, I say that in my speeches, and everybody gasps. And um, you know, hey, listen, school is difficult. Uh dealing with other young people is difficult. Um, I was a smart kid, but I was not a socially savvy kid. And so I got bullied mercilessly uh from kindergarten all the way through. And uh I, you know, like uh dealing with that as a kid, my thoughts weren't I want to kill myself. I want to, I want to die by suicide. It was I don't belong here, I don't fit in. And there's I you know, with a little five, six, seven year, eight-year-old brain, you you don't have the capacity to navigate that. And so, you know, that becomes a fact. I don't belong here. I my life is a mistake, and you know, this must be some kind of joke. Like it's a cosmic joke. So I dealt with that in interesting ways. I was placed in the gifted program after an evaluation. No one said anything about, you know, Nick, you might have you there might be a diagnosis here. I was put in the gifted program. Everyone was happy with that. No one talked about mental health. And so, you know, I navigated that by my little kid brain, you know, I would come home from school after getting bullied and my mom would feed me. Like, it's it'll be all right, Nikki, you know, here, like, you know, and I I I learned that and it didn't, it didn't occur to me at the time, but food is a can be used as a drug. And um, so I used food to cope. And, you know, we didn't talk about any kind of mental health or mental illness or mental health conditions, so eating disorders were not talked about either. So, you know, we watched um when I was younger with my mom a documentary and a movie about Karen Carpenter, who is um uh uh an individual who was in a band called the Carpenters um in the 70s and stuff. And my mom loved the Carpenters, loved Karen Carpenter. Um, beautiful voice, talented, you know, family. Uh but, you know, we watched this movie about Karen Carpenter having eating an eating disorder. And all I remember the discussion being was, oh my God, how do you get like that? Oh my God, how come nobody ever did anything or stopped it? Or, you know, it's it that was the discussion, and it ended there. And I do remember there being a little talk about how, oh, men don't have eating disorders. It's just women. And so all of these, you know, really damaging things, but like that's just it, it's it's what's handed down from generation to generation, and you know, that's how people would talk about these things. And so when it when I got to middle school and I was sick of the bullying and everything, and I decided, you know, uh going into high school, I have to control this narrative. So eating disorders are a lot about control and you know, or in trying to control a situation when you don't have any control, and that's the one thing that you do have control over. Um, so I tried to take, you know, further control by not eating at all. And, you know, I would not eat until I was about to pass out and I lost a bunch of weight. I the the goal of this was to have people like me. And I thought, you know, I was a heavy set kid. And so I thought if I could just change the way that I look, uh, people will like me. And you know, the the sad part is, is, is that's what happened. People were, you know, positive reinforcement. Nick, you look great. Oh my gosh. You know, no one cares that I woke up at four o'clock in the morning and exercised before school and only ate like fat-free foods and you know, cereal and um, you know, and only when I was about to pass out. Everyone just was concerned about wow, Nick, you look great. And so I thought, excellent. This is I'm gonna keep going.

Gabe Nathan 32:29

Can I ask can I ask you a question about this? So you said the goal or the primary goal was to get people to like you. Was uh a secondary gain or part of this also trying to get you to like you?

Nick Emeigh 32:46

You know, I'm still trying to do that, Gabe. I'm still trying to Well, I ditto.

Gabe Nathan 32:52

You know, but yeah, I mean because I I I feel like yeah, so much of that is external. And of course, when you're bullied, you feel like shit and you feel like nobody likes you and you're you're you're a walking target. And I mean, I literally from like kindergarten through college through professional life, um, I've experienced that. And it's external and it is also internal. The bullying is incessant up here. And so I'm wondering if if somewhere you convince yourself if I can get to X pounds or or you get is some kind of external validation that will also help me. Absolutely. But I've you myself.

Nick Emeigh 33:39

I still struggle with that today. Yeah. Um, I was not going to like me until other people liked me. And that was my my measure of, you know, whether I was worth it or not. Was if other people don't like me, I can't like me and I'm not happy or satisfied. And so, you know, I mean, that unfortunately, you know, it's it's it's kind of the society that we live in and that I grew up in, that appearances matter, and that that is kind of the be-all end all. And it's, you know, like how do you how do you reconcile that when you're a little kid? You know, it's and and especially without, you know, parents who who knew how to help a kid with mental health, they had no clue. So how do you navigate that? You you just don't. And you do the best you can with your little kid brain. And so there we were. And um, you know, the the the being liked by other people and being accepted by other people was literally, I mean, it that was more important than grades in college. That was more important than, you know, my relationships with my family. That was more important than anything. And it was just something that I didn't have and wanted and needed desperately. So yeah, the eating disorder was kind of, you know, it was about getting other people to like me. But like at the end of the day, I wouldn't like myself if other people didn't anyway. So you're right. Yeah. And uh it's, you know, just like mental health recovery is lifelong, the journey to self-love and self-like is gonna be lifelong for me. I I I still have, I don't know. You if you're listening and and you're like, ma'am, maybe he has a a touch of borderline personality disorder. Well, maybe I do. But uh it's it's Why are you so well why what made you say that?

Gabe Nathan 35:46

I'm so curious about that.

Nick Emeigh 35:48

Sometimes I wonder about that. I I I uh you know, my attachments and everything like that, no matter how successful I am, or you know, all the good things that I do, I still walk into a room and think, uh, you know what, everyone here is gonna hate me, so I'm going to need to like, you know, bump it up a notch and be great, happy Nick, and you know, say yes to everything and to everyone. And um, you know, I I I think then when I leave the room, I go home and I think, well, you know, they were nice to me, but when I now that I'm gone, everyone's like, oh my God, that guy was so weird. And, you know, like it's and I I analyze everything that I say and do. And, you know, I I I I always feel like I'm too much, and you know, I'm I'm afraid of failure and abandonment. And, you know, I mean, you can't diagnose everything, and you you probably shouldn't try to diagnose everything. I mean, because uh what's left of being a person if everything is a diagnosis?

Gabe Nathan 36:59

So that this is this is crazy because A, it feels like you're giving voice to my internal monologue every moment of my life. Right. I knew like I knew we have a lot in common, but I don't think I knew that we had that we had this much in common. It's a lot. And I have gone to my therapist and I have tried to convince him that I'm bipolar. I have tried to convince him that I'm a sociopath, I've tried to convince him that I have borderline personality disorder. Me too. All I do 24 hours a day is manipulate people and that I'm manipulating him and on and on and on. So, but the before you say something, I as you know, and as as a lot of the listeners know, I used to work in a uh locked inpatient psychiatric hospital. And you what something that you said made it made me immediately return back to work, even though I haven't been there and uh I can't do math. It's 11 years. Um you said you can't uh you can't diagnose everything. And I found that so funny because when I was working at the hospital, that's all we did is we pathologized everything everything a patient did. If they were chatting in group, patient is say, you know, uh hyperverbal and trying to say all the right things to get discharged. If they're not going to group, patient isolating, they're going to all their groups manipulating. Um, it was on you couldn't do you could not get it right as a patient in that environment because we were looking at everything through this fucked up lens um where where we were scrutinizing everything someone said and ascribing either malintent to it or pathologizing it. Um and what I realized when I left, I was like, wow, holy shit. I do that to myself. I do too all the time. Everything I say or do, I pathologize it. And it's exhausting and crazy and and really sad. Because like you said, what's what is left of just being a second person?

Nick Emeigh 39:07

Yeah, like what is left? And you know, I struggle with that. It's and you know, I I think on my way up to to becoming executive director, I think I I I I put that, I assign those internal that internal monologue that I have, I assign that to other people before I even talk to them. I think they're gonna they're gonna think I'm paranoid, they're going to think up he has schizoaffective disorder, we better watch him, you know. Should he should he be doing this? Should he be doing that? And that is, you know, it's it's that's draining. You you asked me about telling my story if if that's draining. I live, I live a full life in my head that may not really be based in reality. And before I start my day, I start at a different place. And maybe you feel this way too. I start at a different place than than other people, you know, who maybe don't struggle with this stuff. And it takes more energy to get just get my day started than it would for someone who does not live with this. And I think that's kind of what a lot of people don't understand is that I am painfully aware. You know, there are a lot of people who are not aware of, you know, their their mental health status and everything like that. And that's a struggle. Uh, but I'm on the other end. I'm painfully aware of what's going on with me. I'm painfully self-aware. And uh so, you know, I I think it's more, it's almost more of a struggle to deal with that internal monologue and and self-diagnoses than diagnosis than it is to deal with the actual diagnosis that I have. You know, it's it's it's it's interesting. We could go on a rabbit or on a hamster wheel with that. Yeah, yeah, I know.

The Inner Critic And Self-Pathologizing

Gabe Nathan 41:12

But it's it is it's abuse. I mean, I I think when you when you really boil it down and distill it to its simplest element, yeah, it is self-abuse. Yep. And you and I have had childhoods where we've been abused by others, yes, and it it continues inside. And I guess that's really the ongoing work, yeah, and the eternal work probably of like un unraveling all of that and discovering either tolerance or acceptance or liking or loving. If I mean that's like the apex of of who we are, and that's a lot.

Nick Emeigh 41:55

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's it is going to be just I mean, life is a lifelong journey. So, like, and this is all life. And so, you know, I mean, I'm on the ride. It I have it's it's a roller coaster. So if if you're listening to this and you're you you're someone who constantly like wonders if they're I don't I don't love to use it crazy. If you am I crazy, or a piece of shit or yeah, yeah. I mean, it it I have days where I'm like, oh my god, I'm a terrible person. Like, you know, everyone's gonna see it, like everyone's gonna find me out.

Gabe Nathan 42:37

And if only they knew if only they knew it was.

Nick Emeigh 42:41

And then and then I have days like, you know, the the other day when we were at the school and you know, this morning, where people are saying, Oh my gosh, thank goodness for you and what you do. Thanks for being so honest and forthcoming. You know, thank you for for really caring genuinely, and we can see that. And I get emotional all the time when I'm doing this work, and I don't think that there's anything wrong with that at all. Um, but like, you know, then I have days like that, and I'm like, oh my gosh, Nick, how could you possibly ever feel that, you know, you're a terrible person or you're bad at your job or you're less of a human than other people? I do feel that way though, sometimes. And it's a roller coaster. So if you're on that roller coaster too, you are really not alone. And, you know, I wish sometimes, you know, being being an intelligent person, which we all are, uh people living with mental health conditions are some of the smartest people I've ever met. But like, I wish I could turn that down a little bit. I wish I could turn my self awareness down a little bit. Just, you know, to so that I can have some peace and not think so much about everything. But you know, that's where mental illness and mental health conditions live is in your brain. And so here we are. But listen, you're not crazy. And you're not a a uh I'm I I typically don't curse, but you're not a piece of shit if you you know, I do curse outside of work, but you know, I know. But that's okay.

Gabe Nathan 44:11

This is a safe space for swear words um and suicide, which is not a swear word. Umests to to follow my lead as far as uh language goes. I did get my pee pee slapped during a talk back once, um, a mental health talk back by an organization which I won't name uh afterwards. And they were like, you know, there there are children here, and you were saying, you know, shit and and fuck on the panel. And I said, Yeah, I I was. And we were talking about mental illness and suicide, and if they can't handle that, um, then you know, and you're talking to me about handling saying fung and shit. Like, I don't know what what you think is going on here, you know what I mean? So anyway, yeah, that's all that to say is it's important to be real too. It is, and I and uh that's something that I love about you so much. It's it's your candor, it's your integrity, it's it's being who you are and and laying it all out there. And you know, you're not good.

Nick Emeigh 45:18

It kills me. It it would kill me if if I had to to hold all of this in, I'm a whole lot of person, and so are you, and I love that about you, but when you hold it in like that, it it you know it it it can be deadly.

Gabe Nathan 45:35

Yeah, it can. And it's it's it is, I think, when for me, I know when I am able to talk and I'm able to share, and I whether it's with Kay or whether it's with you or at an event or doing any writing, it releases a pressure valve and the pressure builds up even after that, right? So you're you constantly need that that kind of release. And I think that's part of the reason people use. Um I think it's part so there's there's uh maladaptive coping methods that people use. Yeah, um, there are healthier coping methods that people use, there are methods that are kind of maybe in between. Um but you you do need some way to deal with what accumulates in in your mind and in your body. It's very, very hard.

Nick Emeigh 46:32

Have to, yeah. And the therapy that I'm I'm doing later today is somatic therapy. And you know, it's it's I I hey listen, I'll try anything. It's I it it it builds up, it builds up in your shoulders, it you know, your face gets red, and you know, like I I take blood pressure medication now because and I'm 43, it's that time. Uh, but you know, it it literally builds up. Literally, and you can feel it. And it comes out as, you know, your your capacity is diminished, you have less patience for people and things, and you blow up on people. And you know, I mean, I I it's it comes it it it's it fuels my anxiety, it you know, so yeah, let it out. Release that that valve. And and swearing is a healthy way to do that, by the way. Listen, um the F-word, I I I'm I'm a I I I'm everyone's heard me say it. I don't know why I'm shy right now, but the I kind of love it. It I I think it's really cute. Uh the F-word, it it's it's just it it uh and you're pr everyone who's listening is probably laughing at me. It's it's uh the F-word is just a a great if you really if you really enunciate and let it all out, it's it's such a good uh release, Valve. It is. The F word is a good egg.

What Mental Health Advocacy Means

Gabe Nathan 48:06

Um I I I want to ask you, uh so do you identify with the term mental health advocate? Did you say I'm Nick Emeigh, I'm a mental health advocate? Yeah, yeah. What does that mean? Just for people who like I think it means different things to different people, and different mental health advocates might have a different definition of it, but what what does it mean to you?

Nick Emeigh 48:30

Well, I think it means giving voice to people who actually live with mental health conditions, so you know what you're doing. Uh it means uh talking to legislators and fighting for, you know, accessible and afford affordable care and things like that, because legislators, you might think that because they're elected officials that they know about all this stuff, and because they're on a mental health caucus or whatever, that they must know because they're there, and why would they be there if they don't know? I can tell you with certainty from doing this for years, they do not know, and we need to tell them. And it to me, being a mental health advocate means that you know, nothing is done for us and you know, with us without us. And, you know, you cannot have a mental health system that is just guided by people who have gone to school for, you know, psychiatry, uh, psychology, counseling. And most of them don't know shit, by the way. I mean, it's it's I mean, uh we we have some really good ones, but a lot of them, it's it's I think that they they they start out with the best intentions and then this rift forms where we know better, you uh poor Nick with the mental illness will pat me on the head, and you know, like we don't need to to listen to that because they're ill. Listen, listen to us. We we are literally telling you if this were a for-profit business or a grocery store, say, and you had customers that were screaming that, you know, this is ineffective, your customer service is terrible, you know, it's unaffordable, we can't afford this stuff anymore. The the powers that be at that for-profit corporation would work real quickly to change things.

Speaker 1 50:39

Yeah.

Nick Emeigh 50:40

It's just not that same way in a uh, you know, government system or a nonprofit system or, you know, the mental health system as a whole. It's it's kind of, you know, it's for for a long time, it's been, you know, you sit there and listen to me because I have the degree and I will give you pills, and then you will be okay. And then once you're stable, then maybe we can talk. But, you know, what I've seen in it we're we're kind of going, I I I'll tell you the rest of my story in a bit, but you know, it it if if if you are a a power that be, power one of the powers that be in the mental health system, and you don't give any thought to what an individual like you and I, Gabe, have had to go through in our recovery journeys, then you probably shouldn't be doing this work. I hate to say it, but actually I don't hate to say it. You shouldn't be doing this work. And um, you know, I think everybody knows who who knows me and NAMI that that's how I feel. You everybody, every every boardroom, every government session, whatever you call them, a caucus, whatever, um, you know, anytime that you are passing legislation, anytime that you are providing funding for programs and services, you should have someone living with a mental health condition and a family member who has had to go through this as well at the table providing feedback. And I mean at least one. And also, you know, with that said, don't tokenize us and expect that we'll do that.

Gabe Nathan 52:23

It was just coming out of my mouth, so thank you for addressing that.

Nick Emeigh 52:26

You know, it and you if if someone is is, you know, in in any kind of leadership and listening to this, you you know, they may say, Nick, well, then what are we supposed to do? Pay us for our time, you know. That's right. Like, you know, actually respect us. Don't pat us on the head and talk to us in a voice like this and expect us to, you know, like give you what you need. You know, our our lived experience is valuable. It it is, you know, if if you want us to put it into action and service, it's worth something. So treat it that way, you know? Yeah. So and and everything I just said is advocacy as well. So speaking about things like that, and you know, there there are, you know, mental illness and mental health and you know, neurodivergence and everything like that is on a spectrum. So, you know, there are lots of people who may be nonverbal or maybe, you know, so sick with schizophrenia or bipolar disorder or depression that they can't go and have a seat at the table for a caucus or for a legislative session or, you know, for whatever. And what an honor it is for me to be able to be a voice for those people as well. They're my peers. And, you know, they they are also really smart, capable individuals. It's just that, you know, maybe I'll get sick again and won't be able to do it, you know, you never know. But what an honor it is to be able to be a voice for them as well, you know. I hate to say like us, them, but you know, for the for the content of this, I think you know what I mean. I'm not trying to say like, you know.

Gabe Nathan 54:16

Um no, of course. But you know while while you're while you're here and while you're stable and while you're healthy, that is such an important role, right? Yeah. Because it's it's it's the same as physical disability. Like I I once was at a conference for accessible housing, and the person speaking used this term tabs. Um you guys are tabs, and we're asking what that meant. The temporarily able bodied that at some point in your life, like you're walking around now, you're doing everything, you have two legs that work and two arms that work. At some point, you're going to need some modification to your living space um because of some kind of physical deterioration, right? So we're we're you're temporarily able-bodied right now. And it's the same thing with our minds, especially if we have a mental health challenge. That's gonna wax and wane, that's gonna go up and down, right? And recovery is not linear. There are um there are times when we are uh in remission, and there are times when we have setbacks and and all of that. And that's absolutely that's part of the journey. Um but you know, you were talking about what different parts of advocacy is, and and part of it is is telling your story. Oh, yeah. So let's let's return to that for a

Addiction And Losing His Mother

Gabe Nathan 55:36

bit. Um did you like that segue?

Nick Emeigh 55:38

I you're great. Was that good? Yeah, you're gorgeous. Um so I think I left off with um, you know, the eating disorder thing, and that's how I started to control my the narrative. Um the problem with everything that happened is that, you know, it became a fact in my brain that, you know, you can get what you want by sacrificing yourself and you know, not being healthy and things like that. And so um I also I wanted to be a famous author and everything, so I went away to school in Boston and you know, I thought, oh, I'm the best. I'm gonna get everybody to read again and love to read and everything. And so I got a degree in literature, and um, yeah, and I'm I'm I don't do anything with that now, but uh I should maybe I have a master of education degree, so don't worry about it.

Gabe Nathan 56:37

I don't do shit with that either.

Nick Emeigh 56:38

So whatever. Um so you know, I I it was at school though in Boston that I really started to get sick. And um I uh I I expressed to my family at that time, uh, that was the first time I said out loud that I I was thinking about uh killing myself and that I thought that I should do that. Um and so my family was terrified, and they took me to the family doctor, and the family doctor put me on Paxel and Xanax. Uh and um no one though I mean, I'm sure you can tell I'm not stupid. I'm not the smartest guy ever, but I'm not dumb. And I got these two prescription bottles, and I did not know how to take this medication. So I thought when you finish the bottle, you're done. And so it is what it is. But the Xanax felt nice. And so uh I uh wanted to continue with that. And I I went back to Boston and everything, and so I didn't have access to to you know that particular thing. And every party that I went to, every time I hung out with somebody, everybody could, you could just tell, like I am awkward, I'm weird, like, you know, like I'm socially awkward, like I I it's hard for me to be present in social situations because I'm just thinking, like, oh my God, oh my god, oh my god, you know, amongst other things. Um so, you know, it was recommended to me that I drink and, you know, take other pills and experiment with other substances. And I did. And uh I I developed a an addiction that lasted uh up un 12 years ago now. So um it lasted until about 12 years ago. And uh I tried to be functional. Um, and it really is difficult when you've you've got mental illness and addiction. I wasn't fully diagnosed yet uh on the mental health side, so I didn't know what I was working with. But uh all I knew is that drugs and alcohol really were helpful in you know reducing symptoms. But the problem was was that I needed it constantly, and it was expensive, and it started to ruin my life, and I faced consequences for for you know those those choices that I was making. And at one point it it wasn't a choice at all. I had to do it, or else I was sick. So um when I I I I got a really good job and I was I was you know running a business and everything, and um the business happened to be in pharmaceuticals, and uh I um I was just not happy. Uh I made a lot of money, but I was not happy. And so, you know, I was going through the motions, doing pills and opiates and everything. And then uh one day I did not feel good. Um, and I felt like my brain was separating from reality and it would come back and it would separate and it would come back, um, hearing voices, um, which, you know, void hearing voices, it's not always, you know, this outside voice that's totally unknown. Um mine sounded a whole lot like me. Uh and um, you know, it it was it was really scary. And I went home to I grew up in Levittown, Pennsylvania. Um, I went home and you know, my mom made me food and put me to bed. And um I I woke up in the morning and my mom made a terrible noise, and I went out and she was unconscious. Um, and we learned that she had a brain aneurysm. And um, so I was nowhere near sober. So, you know, it yes, terrible. I just I was not sober though. So um they did surgeries on her and everything, and then uh they didn't work, and so my mom ended up passing away. She she died um in in January. Uh it was 2008 or nine. Um, and I can't believe it's been that long, by the way. That's wild. I I did not think that I would be able to live without my mom. And oh man. So um everybody thinks that that's like the end of my story, though. Okay, Nick's mom died. He he cleaned it up, he got better. It got worse instead because I didn't want to live well to make my mom proud. I wanted to die and be with my mom and be out of this, you know, thing we call life. So um I made it to her birthday that year, which would have been September 30th, and I decided that that was all I could handle. So, you know, working for a pharmacy chain, um, I went into the pharmacy and I took what I thought I needed to end my life, and uh I said goodbye to everybody. I went home and I, you know, I don't want to get into it all necessarily, but um, I did what I thought I needed to do and it didn't work. And, you know, uh you hear a lot of people say, like, as soon as I started the process, I regretted it. Um I I can't say that that's necessarily true for me. Uh I woke up and I and I think it's important that you get all perspectives around. Absolutely. You know, I think a lot of people feed narratives because they sound good, um, but I'm not gonna do that today. Um I I I was not really regretful. I was angry when I woke up that I did not I was not successful. And, you know, today I feel differently, obviously, but back then I was I was upset. And uh so I I got called into work because there was an emergency. It turns out I was the emergency, and I uh ended up asking for help, and they said, Nick, we know what you did. If you tell us what happened, you know, we won't have you arrested. And I begged for help. I cried, I said my mom died. I don't know what I I I tried to kill myself, and that really didn't matter. Everyone came in and told me how disappointed in me they were, and then two police officers came in and handcuffed me and took me out and on the way told everybody that, you know, in the store that this is not how you want your life to end up. And uh when I was sitting in the back of the police car, the the the officer turned around and he said, Nick, didn't your mom just die? And I said, Yes, she did. And I thought maybe I was gonna get some kind of compassion or something. And he said, Oh, do you think she'd be proud of you? Wow. And that was that was really rough. And that that fuels a lot of the advocacy that I do today around incarceration of people with mental illness. Um, you know, one of the sayings at NAMI, and I really do like it, um, you might think it's it's trait or whatever now, because we say it a lot, but people with mental health conditions deserve help, not handcuffs. It's the truth, though, you know? And I got handcuffs and I went to jail.

Handcuffs Instead Of Help

Nick Emeigh 1:04:34

And um uh, you know, if you know me now, it's a jail is not for me. I'm I am I was not made for jail. Uh, but you know, when I was in there, if if I could have found anything to kill myself with, I, I, I would have. Um, I didn't, though. And I I went to treatment for I went to drug and alcohol treatment. So um things may be a little better today, but you know, 11, 12 years ago, you know, if substances are involved, you go to rehab. So I went to this rehab for professionals, and I was in these groups of people who were, you know, doctors and nurses who talked about taking needles out of their patients and putting them in their own arms to get high. And I thought, you know what? It was never about getting high for me. I wanted to literally die. So, like, and I wanted my my brain to calm down. Like my brain is on fire all the time. Like I needed something to, you know, extinguish that. And, you know, no one was talking about that. And everyone was talking about how do you how do I get my license back? How do I go back to work? So that was just another place that I didn't fit in. So when I got out of rehab, I went home and my my family was still so disappointed in me, I thought I ruined my life. And so I tried to end my life again. And that time I overdosed and I went to the hospital and I was put in for For quite a while. It was through Hurricane Sandy, the second hospitalization. So if you put it, I don't know, I forget what year, 2012, maybe? I think so. Yeah. So uh this this it went on for a long time. Uh but uh I I got out of the hospital. I was I was prescribed like 14 different medications. My family didn't want me at home, so I went to a recovery house. And so and and I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder at first, and which is common, you know, lots of people get misdiagnosed. And, you know, fortunately, a lot of the those medications are interchangeable. And so there were no medications that did me, you know, any grave harm or anything like that. So uh it was just it's it's annoying to have to take 14 medications. It's, you know, and uh, you know, I think sometimes it's overdone. Um, sometimes there's a reason for it, but sometimes it can be overdone. Uh and that was, I think, one of those times. And so for someone who couldn't manage to literally like want to stay alive and breathe, 14 meds a day is a lot. So um the first thing I did was on my own, cut down my meds. I stopped going to therapy, and I got another job because I was like, listen, this mental illness stuff is for the birds. I don't want it, and I'm not gonna participate in it. I'm just gonna go back to being a normal person and I want to walk down the street and everyone think, oh, that looks like a nice young guy. Like, you know, everything's hunky-dory. And uh, if you've ever seen The Real Housewives, by the way, uh, uh Kathy Hilton. Uh someone was someone was relating a story and they said, Oh, it's all hunky dory. And Kathy Hilton goes, Who's hunky dory? Like it's a person. Go watch it. It's fun. If you need a laugh today, go watch it. Um, but I just wanted to be normal. And there's no such thing as being normal. And I was chasing this thing and it wasn't working. And I'm like, what is wrong with me that I can't be normal? Well, no one is. So, but as you can imagine, that was a cycle that I went through for a while. Stop your meds, stop therapy, be normal, get sick again. Because mental illness just doesn't go away because you want it to. Mental health conditions, and I prefer mental health conditions, that term, but mental health conditions don't go away of your own volition or your willpower, or, you know, because you can just control it. If we could all control it and had enough willpower and just wanted it badly enough and it went away, then we I wouldn't have a job, you wouldn't be here, like none of us would be talking about this. So um, that's kind of what kept on happening until my dad passed away.

Recovery That Finally Sticks

Nick Emeigh 1:09:06

And when my dad died, he had a heart attack in his sleep. Uh, I just thought, wow, life is really unfair. Like, I got, I'm gonna curse again. I got the shit end of the shittiest stick in Shitville. Like it, it just, and so, and if you don't, if you don't put humor in things, like this stuff can be too heavy. So you know it. If you hear me chuckle and everything like that, I'm the one who lived through this this particular story, and you know, I don't want you to be sad for me or anything. Um, and I do think that humor is very healthy and it helps me to cope. And I have dark, a lot of dark uh humor. So um, so my dad died, and the first thing I did was try to kill myself again. And my sister got in my face and she said exactly what you should. Not are you, you're not gonna do anything stupid, are you? Not you're not good thinking of hurting yourself, are you? Because, you know, maybe that would have been what happened, but I didn't consider it hurting myself. I consider it lifting a burden from my family. I consider it eliminating the pain I lived with. So uh she did that. She got in my face and she said, Are you are you trying to kill yourself? And I said, Yeah. Uh I don't know how to live life. I don't know how to be an adult. I don't know how to be like a productive member of society. I don't know how to be a person. So no, like I'm gonna ruin this family if I don't do this. So um, you know, she made me sleep on the couch. And then the next day I went to the hospital for the last time. And that's when I got sober. Um, and uh I've been sober ever since. And I started volunteering at NAMI. Um, at first I said no, because what they wanted me to do as a volunteer at NAMI was to go into the schools and tell my story uh of recovery so that kids didn't have to go through what I went through. And while that sounds really nice, you got to remember I'm a I'm I'm uh I'm an adult, but I just feel like a big kid who got bullied all my life, you know? And so I didn't want to get up on a stage in front of people and tell them my most painful moments and the shame things I was most ashamed of, and then get bullied again. But then I was living in a recovery house at the time. I lived in that recovery house for about two years, and you when I started working here at NAMI, and um we had two suicides in the house. One guy uh had schizophrenia and he couldn't get his mental health medication, but you know what's easier to get? Heroin. So he overdosed in the bathroom. Um, and then we had another young man who died by suicide as well. And uh, you know, he after that I said, you know what, Nick, you gotta get over whatever is, you know, you gotta get over, and you have to go and tell your story. And so that's what I did. I was terrified. Uh, you know, but NAMI provided the training that I needed to, you know, put my story together in a way that would be helpful for kids. And I did that for years, and then I got promoted and um I started doing other things at NAMI, and you know, it it really like no one at NAMI ever said, like, you know, Nick, you've got schizoaffective disorder. You can't have the passwords for these things. So I started doing the social media and the website and the newsletter. Um, and you know, I started slow, and I was on disability at the time. So I did the ticket to work program, and the county, Bucks County, uh saw that I was valuable in this space and they provided the funding to pay me. And uh so I I got off of disability and I sl I eased myself into work, and now you can't stop me. So it's um when I first started, we helped, you know, a couple thousand people a year. Last year we helped just uh just under 62,000 uh people in in bucks in the surrounding areas, and uh it's through all of our programs. Like I got sober in AA, thank goodness. I love it. It's supposed to be anonymous, but um, you know, I I'm not anonymous and it helped me. So if it helps you too, cool. It it's not for everybody, just like NAMI's not for everybody. Um, but uh, you know, it it really helped me. And I thought, why don't we have mental health stuff that's like AA? And uh, you know, NAMI had support groups, and I thought, well, we could do the same thing with those groups. And so I built up a network of support groups and everything, and you know, we're we teach mental health education in every school in Bucks County. Um my youth programs director, Mia, does that, and then uh my my support programs director now Taryn, they they work for me. Um she does the all of the support groups and the warm line and everything. So, you know, like that stuff, it's it's I I'm not saying it to to be braggy or anything like that, but um damn, if I died, would this stuff be happening? I don't know. Maybe it would, yeah. NAMI's cool, people like it. Um, but NAMI is what people make it in the community.

Building NAMI Bucks County At Scale

Gabe Nathan 1:14:47

And so things would be things would be happening, but they wouldn't be happening like this, and they wouldn't be happening to this extent. And and an organization is about the people who are involved and what they bring to it. And I, you know, I want to say that I think that you and NAMI are very lucky to have each other. Um that it isn't it is not just one-sided. No. Um because I think that they bring something so they do, and and but you you bring something so unique to them, whether it's you or whether it's NAMI Man, who you can find all about um via the film that we made about NAMI Man, a mental health superhero. Um you it's it is a kind of sparkly something that other people would not be able to do. Um and I just I don't know. I think you and you and Nami Bucks go very, very well together. And I hope that it's a very long um and and mutually healthy relationship. And I I I love that you're executive director. Um I I am gonna be hounding you to get that changed uh in your bio on the website. Oh, yeah. I have to do that. Because people should know about it. Um and I in listening to you hear your story, and and we do need to wrap up, unfortunately. Um most of our interviews are a lot shorter than this, but I could sit and talk to you for hours and hours and and not have the slightest compunction about it. But I I just want to say to you, like as we wrap up, um mental illness, is and I said this at the screening in in Doylestown, um, it tells you a lot of lies. And one of the things that mental illness tells me is that um I don't deserve friends, and I don't deserve to be held in high regard. And um, I know a lot of the same stuff that you and a lot of the same lies that your brain tells you. And I'm just very grateful for your friendship and I'm grateful for um how we look at each other, and um it's very moving to me, and and we've we've uh done a lot of things together, done a lot of events together, and and shared a lot um together, and it's just it's very, very meaningful to me that you exist in the world and in the world of advocacy and in my life. So thank you.

Nick Emeigh 1:17:42

But same, Gabe. It you know, like meeting you when I first started at NAMI was one of the best things that could have happened, you know, because it was you first. You looked at me as though I was a complete human. You you never talked down to me, you never spoke at me, you you you invited me into your world. And I at the time I was fresh, new in recovery. And so that meant the world to me. So, you know, there there are a few people who, you know, you could call the reasons that I am who I am today and where I am, and you are one of them, Gabe. Really. I I don't know that I would be an executive director of NAMI today without you and the way that you treated me. And it's it, you know, too, it's just as important as the way that you didn't treat me, you know. You did not like you, you I'm always afraid that people are going to treat me as I expect them to, and as that narrative in my head dictates, and you didn't, and you were one of the first people to make me feel like I was, you know, I can have mental illness and be a suicide attempt survivor and be a complete human worthy of the respect that you showed me. So I think we both said the same things kind of, but I wanted you to know that too. And I gotta tell you, you doing a documentary about me being NAMI man and NAMI was I'm so honored. And then I put it in my presentations also. I just saw the other day it has over 18,000 views on YouTube. Like, I was shocked. I was so shocked. Like, how cool you guys are so good at what you do. You're such an amazing executive director editor. I should I shouldn't be surprised just because of that, but because I'm in it, I'm like, oh my God, 18,000 people saw that. Oh my god. And then we did a film.

Gabe Nathan 1:19:53

I I look at that and go, motherfucker, it should have uh 118 million views. I'm uh you know what I mean? It's it's so funny the way we look at that. I I'm glad that you're happy. I am relentlessly unhappy. No matter how many times a film that we made is seen, I consider it an immense failing because I really feel like the films and yours in particular are so good. And people need to see and understand and be moved by you and your commitment and dedication and your warmth. So, like if you haven't seen it, please, it's on our YouTube channel. Um, just look up NAMI Man Bucks County and you will find it. Um and I just keep flying, Nick. Keep keep flying that green cape. And uh I'm very proud of you and I love you.

Nick Emeigh 1:20:45

I love you more. I do. You are amazing, Gabe. And thanks for having me today. And to everybody listening, you know, just remember what I said. It's you're not alone when you feel like you're crazy and on a roller coaster and going through this heck of a ride. You are you're not alone in that. And there are real people out there who can reinforce the fact that you deserve all that you give to other people. You're not less of a person because you live with mental health conditions or you're a survivor of suicide. And so anything that Gabe and I can do, you can do too.

Gabe Nathan 1:21:23

So that's right. And anything that that Nick and I deserve, you deserve too. Um thank you until we meet again.

Nick Emeigh 1:21:32

Thank you.

Closing Thoughts And Staying Connected

Gabe Nathan 1:21:36

Thank you again for joining us in conversation today. It's beautiful to see the progression of our contributors. Thank you so, so much to mental health advocate and mental health superhero, Nick Emeigh. He is the executive director of NAMI Bucks County. He is a survivor of several suicide attempts, and he is a mental health advocate who is spreading hope and healing through Bucks County and very, very far beyond. And we are so proud of him and of our friendship with him. What an amazing guest! Thank you, Nick, for joining us on the show today. Before we leave you, we want to remind you to check out our website, recoverydiaries.org. There, like this podcast, you'll find additional stories, videos, and content about mental health, empowerment, and change. We look forward to continuing to grow our community. Thank you so much for being a part of it. We wouldn't be here without you. Be sure to join our mailing list so you never miss a podcast episode, essay, or film. I'm Gabe Nathan. Until next time, take good care.