Working Caregivers: The Invisible Employees

How Harry & David Champions Their Working Caregivers

• Selma Archer & Zack Demopoulos • Season 1 • Episode 17

Share episode

In this powerful episode, we sit down with Rhonda Klug from Harry & David to talk about the often invisible and deeply personal journey of working caregivers. From supporting her parents through dialysis and COPD to leading real cultural change within her organization, Rhonda shares her firsthand experience that sparked a company-wide movement of support and empathy. She takes us behind the scenes of how Harry & David and the broader 1-800-Flowers family are creating a more compassionate workplace for employees who are balancing caregiving responsibilities with their careers.

We explore how Rhonda transformed her lived experience into a catalyst for creating CARE (Caregivers and Allies Responding with Empathy), an Employee Resource Group (ERG) that is reshaping how caregiving is understood and supported in the workplace. If you're an employer wondering how to retain and uplift your caregiving employees—or you're a caregiver looking for inspiration on how to advocate for yourself—this is the episode for you.

 

Episode Highlights:

[2:12] – Meet Rhonda Klug of Harry & David: Her background and caregiving connection.
[3:23] – Rhonda shares her emotional journey as a caregiver for both her parents.
[7:12] – How personal caregiving shaped her awareness of employee needs.
[9:24] – The pivotal moment at the Care Colloquium that sparked a corporate movement.
[12:50] – Why storytelling from leadership is essential in changing culture.
[15:48] – Turning insight into action: Creating a caregiver-focused ERG.
[18:50] – Innovative benefits like Talkspace and Torchlight to support employees.
[20:23] – Practical tips for managers and employees to foster communication.
[24:29] – Encouraging employees to self-identify and seek support.
[26:30] – Real-life impact: Preventing turnover and boosting retention through flexibility.
[28:50] – The ripple effect: How leadership empathy transforms company culture.

 

Links & Resources:

 

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. Remember to check out our website at invisibleemployeeadvocates.com for more resources, and subscribe to our newsletter for updates! We’ll catch you in the next episode.

Rhonda Klug:

One was on the verge of of having to quit, but because we have these resources, and because she has the flexibility of being able to make up time, I think that's where people really were. Really comes in, is people are afraid to leave, or they're afraid they're going to lose their jobs, and for us to come back and say, we're going to work with you. We want you to stay. We want to help you in any way we can. I think that right there and I can, I could probably name off, you know, probably 12 people right now that has gone through that process that's still here today, and so thankful that, you know, it started with leadership that they were able to work with them to get through that process.

Unknown:

Did you know that in 2020 there were 53 million caregivers in the United States? And by 2025 this number is expected to grow to 62 point 5,000,073% of these caregivers also have a job. They are called Working caregivers, and they are invisible because they don't talk about their caregiving challenges. Working caregivers, the invisible employees, is a podcast that will show you how to support working caregivers. Join Selma Archer and Zach demopoulos on the working caregivers the invisible employees podcast as they show you how to support working caregivers.

Zack Demopoulos:

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. From wherever you are listening from, we thank you and appreciate you for checking out our latest episode of the working caregivers, the invisible employees. I'm Zach demopoulos And

Selma:

I'm Selma Archer. Hello, Selma.

Unknown:

How are you?

Selma:

I'm great. How about you? Zach good. Just came

Zack Demopoulos:

off a really great holiday weekend, and we had beautiful weather in New Jersey. How about yourself?

Selma:

Really nice weather. Had a nice, long bike ride. So I'm energized today.

Zack Demopoulos:

Excellent. That's my athletic partner there, right? It was always either running or riding bikes. Well, we're going to jump right in and introduce our guest. I'm really excited about this.

Selma:

Yes, we have with us. Rhonda Klug from Harry and David. Rhonda, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. We have been waiting for the opportunity to sit you down and have a conversation about your work and what you do in terms of the caregiving space. So welcome. Welcome.

Rhonda Klug:

Thank you. Thank you Selma. Thank you Zach. And it's obviously a pleasure to be here.

Zack Demopoulos:

The podcast. Are big fans of Harry David. We constantly are using their your services to love to hear that flowers and goodies to our, to our to our friends and family. Yes.

Selma:

So we, we like to get started by asking our guests to share something interesting about where they live. Do you have something you could share with us?

Rhonda Klug:

Well, Southern Oregon is in close proximity to Crater Lake or the Crater Lake National Park,

Selma:

Crater Lake, okay, I'll have to put that on my bucket list. We'll get started. My first question for you, maybe, Rhonda, you could share your caregiver journey with us?

Rhonda Klug:

Well, sure, it started years ago when my when my dad, who lives about 21 miles out from where I live, he came down with renal kidney failure, which affected him in many different ways. He was on dialysis. He had to come in three times a week to get dialysis. I spent a lot of my time going out and picking him up and bringing him in while working full time. So Saturdays, we pick a Saturday for him to come in for one of those days, so it wasn't an interruption to work time, but the other two days, I would try to get one of my relatives to help, but I would go out, pick him up in the morning, drop him off, come into work, do what I could do, then after work, or even in between work time, I would go get him and take him home. And then also, you know, a lot of that is not just traveling the roads. It's talking with the doctors. It's, you know, doing his bill pay. It's helping him to get groceries, maybe on the way home. And all of that just is very stressful for an employee working full time and trying to figure out, you know, you want to make sure you're there at work, doing the right thing and being accountable, but yet, you have a loved one that you need to take care of, you know, in hopes that you know everything's going to work out on both ends. It's very stressful that way. And then my. Mom to put my mom in the mix of it. My mom had been a smoker for years, always tried to quit, and that's a hard thing to do. And wound up with COPD and and the care I did for her started out with, you know, taking her to doctor's appointments, and we think, okay, that's just a quick, you know, half an hour of my work time, I'd call her. I'd say, Mom, be ready, because she just lived, you know, 20 minutes away, be ready. I'm on my way. I call her on my way. I'm on my way. I'll be there shortly. Just thinking of work time I would get there. She wasn't ready. She needed to go get her sweater. She wanted to she needed to go get her purse, and then picked her up. And she's all, what's the hurry? And I'm all, well, I do need to get back to work. So we get to the appointment. Then there's waiting time. It's all these things you don't think about. And then finally she gets out, then I need to take her home. Well, maybe she wants to get something to eat. Maybe it's lunch time. So the gist of it is, is you think it's going to be a quick 20, 3040, minutes and two hours goes by, and you're trying to be accountable for work, you know? So then some of us that have the opportunity to make up that time, but not every employee has that opportunity. So it's a it's a very, it's a big struggle for employees to work full time and try to manage their, you know, taking care of their loved ones. And they're going to do it, obviously, because you love them and you want to be there for them,

Selma:

absolutely. And I can totally relate to what you're saying in terms of supporting the parents with their dialysis and the doctor's appointments, because you during those times you have no control. You have no control over your time. Your time then becomes the time that's needed for them to get the care they need. And very, very familiar with that struggle. So I was wondering, can you share how your caregiving experience with your parents has influenced or impacted the work that you do now with Harry and David, my

Rhonda Klug:

experience was, was actually great if, if there is a great experience out of caregiving, but I loved my parents. You know you do. You don't think about caring for someone or being a caregiver per se, especially an employee caregiver. You're there for your loved ones, and you do it because you want to take care of them. And then come evening, if you're a sandwich caregiver, where you have you're also taking care of children, then you go home and you have your children to take care of. You know you have a household to take care of. You have your animals, or whatever it is. You still have all of that. You have your work, your home life, and then everything on top of that, you really have to step back and just take care of yourself. And that's not even a learnings after the fact, you just hopefully most people know, like I'm getting really tired, you know, I wake up at five and I go to work early, and then I have to run the roads to you. Have to run the roads because you want to take care of your loved ones, and by the time you get home, you're exhausted, but you know you still have dinner to fix, and you still have all these things. You still have your animals to take out walking, and you know all of these things can be very stressful, but you just in something inside you you just, you know has to click to say you still need to take care of yourself, and I feel I did that. You know, it's just you have to stay healthy to take care of people that you love. But I know a lot of people don't think that way. They're they're not thinking, you know, they're just thinking about taking care of their loved ones, and then their own health starts to diminish. So

Selma:

just a follow up to that, did your personal experience with your parents as as a caregiver has that shaped the way you interact with your working caregiver employees at Harry and David like are you more aware of those people that are experiencing those type of situations that you experienced, and how do you handle that? Yes,

Rhonda Klug:

so absolutely. My parents both passed away in 2022 my dad in January, my mother in April, so the same year, and I still wasn't thinking of an employee, caregiver, per se. But then in November, Jim McCann, our founder of one 800 flowers, and our CMO, sent me to a conference in Roanoke, Virginia, called the care colloquium and real and it was a three day conference. It was really to go there. And. And sit through everything, absorb everything I could possibly absorb. And it was really more on the E com side, on how Harry and David could do a better job of creating gifts for caregivers. And so that was my role, was to go and and listen and and consume everything I could on that. But what happened was, after that three days and meeting folks like Jack at the care colloquium, I came home, I wrote a nine page recap, and the first thing out of my mouth was, wow, you know, I'm an employee caregiver. I didn't even know that, and we need to practice what we're preaching first. And I wanted to create a caregivers ERG, an employee resource group. We had four to begin with, but this was so important, because if I didn't know that, how are the other employees, not just with Harry and David, but enterprise wide, how do they even know they're they went through the same things I did, you know, taking care of their loved ones, trying to work, and not even really realizing what they were, you know, doing, or even what kind of support they could get. So what happened was, of course, Jim McCann said, Absolutely, let's do that. And so I worked closely with our human resources department. Created a caregivers and allies responding with empathy. We call it care employee resource group. And the other question was, then, how do we get our employees to listen to us, to realize this is actually for them, right? Because if I didn't realize that, how would they Yes. So we kicked it off on some town halls. You know, Jim and I did some sell. He's got a podcast called celebrations chatter. We did quite a few, few of those, even bringing in Zach and quite a few others. But internally, we kicked it off through a town hall, which all of our employees enterprise wide. So there's multiple brands under one 800 flowers throughout the US. That was very, very successful. We actually kicked it off that November of 2022, we started the work on it rather and then that next year, we kicked it off, but we put the correct messaging out there to let people know this is for you. We got a big, big response, and we've just, we just keep going from there. It's been, you know, it's like we say, you can walk down the halls of any company and start talking about your story, and everyone has a story. Yes, yes.

Zack Demopoulos:

Kudos to you, Rhonda, for attending the colloquium, which you and I got to meet, like you said. And I was so thrilled. I actually watched your transformation. I don't know if you know what I'm referring to, but I sat behind you during a Q and A and and it's like I saw your light bulb just go over your head. And with all all that, all that was going on, and you asked an amazing, great question that I will never forget you said, you know, how are we to find our employees who, who are working caregivers? And I don't know if the stage answered, because it's a difficult thing to answer, but I gotta ask you that, if you don't mind, you know, what do you think today? How can you help employees self identify?

Rhonda Klug:

It takes leadership. It's, you know, it starts from the top down, and we had some of our leadership members telling their stories enterprise wide. Wow. And you know that that's what it takes. If they can do it, we can do it.

Zack Demopoulos:

Selma and I have told this story a few times. We'll tell it again to our listeners. Bear with us, but it's such an important story. We did a webinar for an organization last year, and we did two of them in December and November, and the first one was great. It was good, you know, it went really well, but the second one was amazingly effective, because we had a senior leader with us who actually would ask us questions and then shared his story, and the chat room blew up. I we've never seen we couldn't keep up with the comments and questions that were going on. There were hundreds of people on this webinar, and it was just amazing. So you Ronnie, you know, for just going to that meeting with the objective of trying to help one 800 flowers or Harry and David with E commerce and to come back with what you came back with again. Kudos to you. Kudos to Jim McCann for realizing that creating care, which is caregivers and alleys allies, responding with empathy. You know, creating that er. G will actually get you more marketing input than you can go out and pay for Absolutely. You know, when I when someone I worked at Pfizer and I wasn't we were in HR, I used to actually jokingly tell leaders, why are you paying for marketing data? Just ask your own employees. You know how women think, or how maybe people of color think so. Kudos to you. Can you share from your experience, now that you're getting quite a bit of experience with this as a caregiver and and sorry for the losses of your parents and, I believe also your husband you lost recently too, so we're really sorry for that. But from those experiences, which we call lived experiences, and from the experiences that you're having at Harry David, what more do you think employers could be doing right now for supporting working caregivers?

Rhonda Klug:

So with that said, last year, I attended the health benefits nation conference in Nashville, and that was a group of corporations, HR members, that were there before benefits, before the benefit season, season, to talk about what's out there. What you know? What more can we learn that we might be able to apply to our employees benefits for that coming year. So my role wasn't from an HR expert, because I'm not that I work closely with our HR teams, but my role was to talk about why this erg, and not even just the ERG, but why do we need? Why do corporations need to support employee caregivers, and what can you do in terms of benefits to redefine those so we had someone come in, Debbie Howard, as you know, before we kicked off our care ERG, she worked closely with our HR teams to Define look through, not recreate the will, but to look through what benefits we already provide to our employees, and what can we do to redefine those benefits specifically for employee caregivers. So some of the things, some of the things that we've done is we've incorporated a platform called Talk space, and we kicked that off after that first year. But talk spaces is really for anyone and everyone, but it it, it can definitely be for employee caregivers, and it's about talking to people that care. It could be a psychiatrist, it could be a doctor. It could be, you know, someone where you have a personal conversation, to be able to talk with the other one that we purchased, and we offer to our all employees, but it was specifically for our employee caregivers. Is called torchlight. And torch light is a great platform. I was able to test it with both my I put in my mom, I put in my dad, and some of the things that you don't think about because you're so into the moment of taking care of your parents, you're not thinking of long term, you're just thinking of short term. And so it'll populate things that you're not thinking about. So my dad, it talked about, you know, have you thought about this? Have you thought about that? But it also talks about, you know, have you had that conversation about, does your dad have a will? Does he have a trust? And you know, when you're in the moment, you're not thinking about that. You're not a selfish person, but at the end of the day, it's a it's better to be on top of that. It all works into the whole caregiving, planning. It's all part of it. It's either going to happen during or it's going to have to, you know, it happens after the fact. So those types of tools are so beneficial. Yeah.

Zack Demopoulos:

Thank you so much. And for those listeners who are like my partner, athletic and on the run or riding a bike, don't worry about all these links. We will put those in our show notes about the conference that you mentioned. Shout out to Debbie Howard, who's also a friend, and a link to what she's doing, and then also to torchlight. Thank you for sharing those.

Rhonda Klug:

Yeah, but I just want to also mention again and just reiterate that it really does start with leadership in the corporation. You know, Jim McCann has been a huge advocate, but it that trickles down, you know, and that's the most important thing. All it takes is your leadership, getting, you know, behind it, behind what you're doing, and and people listen. It's been huge. And bring in speakers too, because it was monthly for a while, but all sorts of speakers, you know, and we do surveys too, that says, What? What is it that you would like from us? It could be someone with that has a child with autism. It could be someone that has a parent with dementia. It's a it's a multitude of things, right? So if you bring in the right people, then you might not get a. Everyone listening, but you're going to get the important ones that need that. And then survey says, you know, what is it that you need? And that's, that's where we continue to go. We kicked off in January of this year with an attorney, local and attorney that said, just kick the year off right with a simple will, because that's all part of the journey. Yes,

Selma:

and that's critical. That's a critical point you're making, because if you're implementing you can implement programs all day long, but if it's not what the employees need, you're just wasting time and money. So it's great that you're reaching out and asking them what it is that they need. So on the on the other side of that, what kind of tips or words of encouragement do you have for employees, you know, from their perspective of, how can they reach out for support from the employer or their manager in terms of the struggles they're having as as a Working caregiver? Yes,

Rhonda Klug:

so internally, it's a little bit different, because we've kind of got the process going, but not everybody knows. You know, you say enterprise wide, but there's still people, there's still employees here that that doesn't know, even though we do the town halls. You know, we're talking a lot of people, so not everybody might not be in the know. So you still have that conversation and and it really is, you know, you you know, there's, there's a process you really do need to talk with your manager first, and then, you know, talk with HR, because that's kind of what buttons it all up. Then we, too, as part of the ERG, we can go back to those employees and work with them specifically, and work with their managers, because we're behind, you know, making sure that, you know, at the end of the day, what companies need to understand is we're working to help the employees stay in the workforce. Because look at how many employees quit their full time jobs and go home and and right before I went to the care colloquium, we had an employee that had to quit to stay home to take care of their father, and that's what we're trying to prevent. How do we do a better job of keeping our employees in the workforce? And this is part of the success rate. So talking with the the actual employee, encouraging them to talk with the manager, and then HR always comes into play in that conversation.

Selma:

And it sounds like from the town halls that you guys do it. It really helps create a safe work culture so that people are more comfortable coming forward, because that's one of the things that Zach and I run into, is people are afraid to come forward. They think they're, you know, going to lose their job or lose an opportunity to be promoted, you know, identifying themselves as as a caregiver, but you guys are creating that safe space for them to do that. Absolutely amazing.

Rhonda Klug:

And again, this is our fifth ERG, and they're truly, yes, you know, companies will say they're great for recruiting purposes, which they are, but the five that we have, they're just that. They're always useful employee. We have quite a few members in each of them, and I'm an ally on all of them. And they're, they really are that safe place. And people need that. Employees need that, and they you know, again, everyone has a story. You

Zack Demopoulos:

seem to work with HR quite a bit, and you keep talking about that. And just a bonus question here, do you have any advice for an HR leader who's listening to this? How can they become more involved. Let's say they have no experience, zero experience with caregiving. You have any suggestions for them as to, how could they get more awareness or supportive?

Rhonda Klug:

I would say, call me. I've learned so much over the last you learn a lot, that's for sure. But really what it is is, is, you know, they can do a town hall within their own organization, a teams Microsoft, teams meeting, a zoom, whatever platform they use, and ask the question, you know that that how many, how many employees do we actually have that are actually caregiving for a loved one? We just want to know. We want to know so that we can start providing the tools and resources that you might need. That's going to open up a lot of dialog. Did

Selma:

you find that people were comfortable raising their hand to that question at the town hall? Yes?

Rhonda Klug:

Were you Yes? Because it takes someone to put themselves out there, like, that's the first thing that I like to do, is introduce myself and then talk a little bit about my own story, and my story is sad. You know, they're all sad, right? They just, like, very sad. And you you don't get over stuff like that. You learn. To deal with it and then exert yourself to your employees, like, how can I help anyone in our company, enterprise wide, to help prevent them, or at least help with their journey along the way? But there's a lot of things that I feel and other employees as well. And I have two co leads, by the way, Kim Huckabee and Kelly Taylor. One's in security, ones in marketing, and they, you know, between the three of us, we do a great job of of being able to tell our own stories. We all have our own stories, and that's why we're all here. People listen to that and you can, you can then see, okay, I have a question, and that's all it takes.

Unknown:

Wow, that's amazing. Then we provided a,

Rhonda Klug:

we actually built out a resource page. So anything we do podcasts, you know, we have speakers come in, we save all of those and put the resources out there so that people can go and re review if they miss it, or just re review if they you know need to re listen. It

Selma:

may it may be too soon for you to tell but I was just wondering if, if you have any evidence so far from what you're doing as to the the ability to now retain those quality employees that have been leaving because they have to take care of, you know, a loved one. Have you seen any shift in that? Yes,

Rhonda Klug:

and I, and I don't have like statistics per se, but what the true stats are is that the employees that I know too, that are still currently they could be one. One was on the verge of of having to quit, but because we have these resources, and because she has the flexibility of being able to make up time, I think that's where people really were. Really comes in is people are afraid to leave, or they're afraid they're going to lose their jobs, and for us to come back and say, we're going to work with you. We want you to stay. We want you, we want to help you in any way we can. And that, I think that right there, and I can, I could probably name off, you know, probably 12 people right now that has gone through that process that's still here today, and so thankful that, you know, it started with leadership, that they were able to work with them to get through that process.

Zack Demopoulos:

That's amazing. I sound like a broken record. Hats off to your leadership. To you. I mean, it does take your senior leadership, but Jim McGann is also a friend of our podcast. Is is and also wrote an incredible forward for our book. He's a great example of of walking the talk. He's a great example of it. And I am going to encourage listeners to check out his podcast celebrations, his newsletter. It's fantastic. Yes, and

Selma:

you guys are doing exactly what Zach and I are encouraging employers to do. You're doing it all, and you're seeing that you're reaping the benefits of it. You're seeing the difference in your culture and the ability to retain your key talent. So yes, absolutely.

Rhonda Klug:

Hats off. And I just want to throw in, you know, we have leadership like Jim, for instance, but but others throughout the companies that the leadership teams are facing this, they're going through the same things, you know, so for that person to go talk to their manager, chances are their managers going through it, or maybe has gone through it,

Unknown:

or will be going through it, exactly told us,

Rhonda Klug:

yes, yeah, yes. That's so it pays to do this to take care of our employees, and you know, it can be a beautiful thing in that regard. Yes,

Selma:

I think you're the first Zach. Correct me if I'm wrong, you're the first employer we've had. Wow. Talk about this. So it's, this is a memorable day for us in our podcast, because you're the first employer. Lot

Rhonda Klug:

of learnings, for sure, and a lot of that can be applied to other people. You know, I My motto is, if I can help someone have an easier time and give them the tools and the resources to maybe prevent a lot of things that I had to go through, then that's a win. Absolutely,

Selma:

it's a win for you. It's a win for the employee, and it's a win for that care recipient as well, and

Unknown:

it's a win for the company the attention that

Selma:

they need. Yes,

Zack Demopoulos:

thank you so much, Ronda. Thank you for your time and for your story and and for all that you guys are doing over at Harry and David, thank you.

Rhonda Klug:

Well, thank you. It's pleasure. You were worth the wait. Well, you guys are great. I appreciate both of you. You guys are the ones. You're the heroes out there. So. So thank you for doing what you do. Listen.

Zack Demopoulos:

I appreciate that, but I'm begged to differ again. In that room when I met you that day, it was full of caregiver champions and advocates and coaches and consultants, but there was only one employee that was in there representing an employer, that was you. And look at all the work that you're doing. So we need to follow your lead. We need to follow your lead. Thank you again,

Unknown:

absolutely thank you. Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to catch new episodes of working caregivers the invisible employees podcast every other Tuesday. Please also visit our website, invisible employee advocates.com to subscribe to our newsletter, purchase our book and learn more about how we can help you strengthen your workplace to become more supportive of working caregivers you.