Working Caregivers: The Invisible Employees

Self-Preservation and the Power of the Small Moment with Charlotte Bayala

• Selma Archer & Zack Demopoulos • Season 1 • Episode 20

Share episode

This week, we sit down with the incredible Charlotte Bayala, host of the Cancer Caregivers Podcast and a nominee for the International Women's Podcast Awards. Charlotte brings raw honesty, heartfelt wisdom, and a refreshing sense of humor to a conversation every caregiver needs to hear. If you’ve ever felt overwhelmed, unseen, or just in need of a reset, Charlotte offers a powerful reframing of what it really means to take care of yourself—and why she prefers the term "self-preservation" over "self-care."

From the invisible weight of caregiving to finding joy in unexpected moments, Charlotte shares her own journey, practical breathing exercises, and insight into how employers can actually support caregivers (hint: it’s more than just checking a box in November). This is one of those episodes that will make you pause, breathe, and feel deeply seen. Press play and feel a little lighter.

 

Episode Highlights:

[2:18] - Meet Charlotte Bayala, host of the Cancer Caregivers Podcast, dialing in from Walmart country: Northwest Arkansas.

[3:57] - Celebrating Charlotte's nomination for an international podcast award and what that recognition means to her.

[6:49] - Charlotte’s approach to content creation: from seasonal caregiver needs to blending lived experience with professional wellness training.

[9:09] - The backpack analogy that took our breath away (literally). How Charlotte illustrates the invisible load of caregiving.

[11:09] - Why "self-preservation" matters more than "self-care" and how tiny daily actions make a big difference.

[13:55] - A moment to pause: Charlotte guides us through a brief but impactful breathing exercise.

[16:36] - What drives Charlotte to speak up for caregivers, and why being seen matters.

[18:13] - Charlotte's personal caregiving journey and the revelation that changed everything.

[21:49] - Humor in the hard moments: a hilarious hospital memory that underscores the power of laughter.

[24:45] - Real support for caregivers at work: Charlotte's advice for employers and how she collaborates with organizations.

[27:59] - Where to find Charlotte online and more about the Cancer Caregivers Podcast.

 

Links & Resources:

If you enjoyed this episode, be sure to follow the podcast and leave a review. Remember to check out our website at invisibleemployeeadvocates.com for more resources, and subscribe to our newsletter for updates! We’ll catch you in the next episode.

Charlotte Bayala:

I consider it self preservation, we oftentimes feel like we don't have the time, that it's not available to us, that we don't deserve to do it, that it creates guilt. But the problem is, is that we're humans, and we need to find the time to course correct, especially when we're walking into or out of stressful moments, everyone feels like they need a half hour. They need an hour. They need to leave to go somewhere. Have a special place or a special setup. You just need five minutes. So if you're parking your car at work, Park far away and take that extra two, three minutes to not be on your phone, put everything in your bag, in your pocket, and simply just walk, just walk and breathe and take that moment, because it's small moments like that that we need throughout the day. These are things that you're already doing. You don't have to add something new to your day.

Unknown:

Did you know that in 2020 there were 53 million caregivers in the United States, and by 2025 this number is expected to grow to 62 point 5,000,073% of these caregivers also have a job. They are called Working caregivers, and they are invisible because they don't talk about their caregiving challenges. Working caregivers the invisible employees, is a podcast that will show you how to support working caregivers. Join Selma Archer and Zach demopoulos on the working caregivers, the invisible employees podcast, as they show you how to support working caregivers.

Zack Demopoulos:

Good morning, good afternoon, good evening. From wherever and whenever you're calling from, we thank you for checking in on the working caregiver the invisible employee Podcast. I'm Zach and

Selma:

I'm Selma. What's up? Selma, how you doing, partner?

Zack Demopoulos:

I'm doing great. I mean, I know you're sitting in 100 degree weather, but we finally saw spring here in New Jersey, and I'm actually wearing shorts. You just can't see

Selma:

me. Hey, keeping cool. It's all about keeping cool. Yeah, things going good with you. Going great. Excited, so excited to have our guest today. I heard her on a podcast, and I'm now. I'm just dying to hear more. She's just amazing.

Zack Demopoulos:

That's how we found our guest, and let's, let's get right to it. Charlotte by Allah, how are

Charlotte Bayala:

you? I'm good. I'm so happy to be here with the two of you. Oh,

Zack Demopoulos:

we are happy that you are here. Charlotte by yellow is the podcast and host of the cancer caregiver podcast. If you haven't had a chance to check this out, check her podcast out. Please do. And you don't need to take any notes, because we know you're driving or working out and doing all kinds of stuff. So we will have all the links in our conversation in the show notes. So be sure to check that out. Charlotte. Let's start off with where the heck are you dialing in from? And tell us something kind of unique and interesting about where you live.

Charlotte Bayala:

I'm in Northwest Arkansas, so Roger Bentonville, area of Arkansas, and I'm fairly new here, so I feel like the different part about this part of the world is just how much of a Walmart world I'm living in right now. Oh,

Zack Demopoulos:

God, got so many things to say to them, and I'm just gonna we may want them as a corporate sponsor one day. I better just stop right there. Is

Selma:

it warm there? Charlotte,

Charlotte Bayala:

it's in the 80s right now. So, okay, yeah, yeah, we're, we're in that's not even summer, so it'll get hotter. Yeah, I know.

Zack Demopoulos:

I do want to just like I say, we'll have your bio in the show notes, but I do want you to, let's talk about something really quick and recent. And congratulations, you've been shortlisted as a nominee to win in a major category for the International Women's podcasting. And congratulations. First of all, yes,

Charlotte Bayala:

congratulations. Thanks. That's exciting, yeah,

Zack Demopoulos:

so I want the humble Charlotte talking right now. So how, how do you why do you feel you were shortlisted and, and then you can go ahead and just share with us. Why did you start a podcast?

Charlotte Bayala:

Yeah, why was I shortlisted? I don't know, because it's a freaking amazing podcast.

Zack Demopoulos:

Was for humble, okay, I love it. I'm

Charlotte Bayala:

gonna give you the opposite. No, seriously, like, it's been a whole different type of mindset shift that I've had to have because, you know, as being a solo podcaster, just an indie, having an indie show, being the only person that touches all parts of the show, you know, to be, first of all, to have a friend that kind of nudged me to to to apply for the the award. And then, you know, we do some things sometimes where people like you have to do this, you have to do it. And I'm like, All right, fine, I'll do it. And then to see my name on the list of people who are. Of shows are shortlisted like completely didn't expect it, so I'm super excited. And you know, being in a caregiver world, being a caregiver, having a podcast about carry caregiving, and being the only person that runs this podcast can feel extremely just isolating and lonely. So for an international podcast organization to notice it and say, you know, yeah, it is good. Like we want the world to know about it. That's been awesome. Yeah, it's been perfect.

Unknown:

Does it valid? Do you feel like it kind of validates what you're doing, or does it, is it, is it a spark? I mean, what does it mean to you?

Charlotte Bayala:

Really? Yes, it is validating for some, for a group of people, to say we think that this is up there with 14 other shows that deserve to be in this category that really fit the bill for this year. Is extremely validating. At the same time, you know, we all have those caregiving tendencies where we're like, No, we're the people behind the scenes, right? We're the ones that are the cheerleaders for other people. And so to be in this place where people are cheering me on and seeing and noticing the show a little bit more is incredible, because I've been podcasting for five years. So to get to this point, you know it's like and it and it creates a lot of pressure, too, more than usual, just of I've always known that my words can make a difference in someone's life, but it's sitting a little heavier right now.

Zack Demopoulos:

Congratulations again. Congratulations,

Selma:

yes, five years, that's a long time. How do you how do you go about creating content consistently that's so interesting and exciting, and how do you prioritize what to talk about?

Charlotte Bayala:

It depends on the time of the year. I like to sit back and think about what if, if I were my caregiver self in the first year or two, what would be my my issues at the moment, right? And so there are a lot of things that come up that are more important to talk about, let's say around the holidays or in the summers or, you know, New Year's or Valentine's Day, like those are all times of year that everyone goes through and doesn't recognize how that can kind of feel a lot a lot lonelier for a caregiver. If you're a spousal caregiver, and everything's about Valentine's day like that hurts, even though you're sitting next to the person, yeah, that you're caring for. A lot of it is a lot of it comes from the things that I know to be true through the experiences that I've had, and then to support what I know works through the training that I have, through yoga and meditation and just the 1000s and 1000s of hours that I have experienced teaching and leading people in different modalities I only offer on the show what I know works for other people, and that has worked for myself in order to mitigate overwhelm and stress for caregivers in any moment. So it's a lot of me those episodes are. A lot of me

Selma:

that's wonderful. Thank you. That's

Zack Demopoulos:

what makes it so engaging, because you are, you are straight up. You're telling like it is, using curse words. I love it, yeah,

Charlotte Bayala:

I can't not. It's just hard for

Zack Demopoulos:

me. My favorite episode so far, and I'm gonna get this screwed up, because two of them actually my favorite, but one of them is the secrets of working caregiver, which is amazing. And then the other one is, a caregiver, nobody or nobody told you you're a caregiver. Yeah, yeah. I don't know which one of the episodes you did this with, but I love the analogy, and with your permission, I'm starting to use it, yeah, but I love the analogy of not telling somebody you're a working caregiver is like carrying an invisible, 50 pound backpack, and your arms are loose. Your hands are loose, and that's what people see. They don't see the backpack. How did the hell did you come up with that? Can you expand on that? How

Charlotte Bayala:

did I come up with it? I write at five and six o'clock in the morning.

Zack Demopoulos:

You drink coffee.

Charlotte Bayala:

Yeah? Coffee? No, I try to wait until after I've done at least an hour of being awake before having coffee. And maybe that's why those types of things come out of me. Because I'm not I wake up with episodes in my head, and oftentimes I don't want to wake up and get out of bed, but my brain has already started writing the episode, so in order to capture it and not lose it, once I hit eight, the words disappear. So it's it's this weird kind of like flow that I have in the morning, it just came to me. I had just traveled. I was wearing a backpack, like I did, kind of think back at this backpack. It's really heavy, like, I hate carrying it. But also then I was, you know, holding my water and my my my snacks to take on the plane. And then my husband handed me something else, and I was like, in my head, I was like, What the heck is happening? Like, can't you see? Like, I'm carrying so much, right? And so that came to me when I sat down to write a lot of times, things that have nothing to do with caregiving, that have happened in my life come into when I write in the podcast. So I just feel like, if we're intentional about being mindful of the moments that we have, we all have stories that we can tell.

Zack Demopoulos:

Please keep getting out of bed with those ideas, because you're your content is extremely helpful. On behalf of caregivers, thank you for it.

Selma:

So on average, working caregivers spend about 20 hours a week doing you know, caregiving duties in in addition to the time that they spend doing their work. You know duties. Yeah. So where do they have time to care for themselves? What is your view on self care? Yeah,

Charlotte Bayala:

first, I don't like calling it self care. I feel like self care has been overused. And you know, if you say self care right now, almost anybody that's listening is probably thinking about massages and vacations and spa appointments and yoga pants, and, you know, all the things that we don't need in order to care for ourselves. And I think that's the problem is we oftentimes feel like we don't have the time, that it's not available to us, that we don't deserve to do it, that it creates guilt and that, and that's not who we are. But the problem is, is that we're humans, and we need to find the time to course correct when we're especially when we're walking into or out of stressful moments. And so I consider it self preservation, because this is, these are things that we have to do to make sure that we're not in the future, the ones that also need caregiving, for people to care for us. That's the problem, right? Everyone feels like they need a half hour. They need an hour. They need to leave to go somewhere, have a special place or a special setup. And I just, when I work with people and talk to them, and even in the show, I'll, I'll say, you just need five minutes. So if you're, you know, parking your car at work, you know, take Park far away and take that extra two, three minutes to not be on your phone, to not be going through that list of things you have to do, put everything in your bag, in your pocket, and simply, just walk, just walk and breathe and take that moment, because it's small moments like that that we need throughout the day in order to reset our nervous systems. Because you are, you are doing more than just going into work. You're You're like the backpack analogy. You're carrying all that in with you, and then you're putting more in there to weigh yourself down so, you know, doing what you can to take you know, when you do the coffee break, or you're walking to lunch, like, Please don't eat your lunch at your desk while you're working, especially if you're a caregiver. Like, go someplace, even if it's just 15 minutes to sit without an electronic to just actually taste your food when you have coffee, just, you know, sitting with it for a minute and smelling the coffee and actually tasting it. When we have those moments in those days where you're like, I just need coffee. And we go from the process of going to get the coffee, grab the coffee, put it to our mouths and leave. I don't think that most of us even remember what the coffee tastes like. It's just, we just got to get it done. Just taste the coffee. I mean, these are things that you're already doing. You don't have to add something new to your day.

Zack Demopoulos:

Yeah, I loved how on one of your shows, you actually stopped and did a breathing exercise. Can we take a minute and do that? Could you have us go through

Charlotte Bayala:

that? Of course. I mean, do we want to do the whole 15 minutes? No, no, no.

Zack Demopoulos:

Just Just one minute. Give us, give us, give us a flavor.

Charlotte Bayala:

I'm always gonna ask for more. All right, so it doesn't matter where anybody is, whether they're driving or they're walking or they can be someplace where they can actually stop, no matter what you're doing, just make sure that you're safe. And I just want you to find your breath at the tip of your nose. And I just want you notice the breath coming in and out through the tip of your nose, just your normal breath. There's nothing special to do, no place for you to go. And as you continue breathing, I want you to slowly start to make that breath in a little bit deeper, which means you're going to have to release your belly. You're going to have to relax, let the shoulders stay low, just let the breath come as far down deep into your lungs as you can. And then as you let that breath out slowly, let it out through your nose, if you can. In or your mouth if your nose isn't available. But as you let it out, let all of the air out before you bring that next breath in, just following that breath at your the tip of your nose, deep breath in, slow breath out, two more deep breaths in slow breath out. One more deep breath in slow breath out, before you move on to the rest of your day, I want you to just check in to see how you feel in this moment, or your shoulders maybe a little bit lowers, maybe your face a little bit more relaxed,

Selma:

and then you can move on. Wow. I feel my heart better. I can feel my heart beating better through that.

Zack Demopoulos:

I feel my shoulders kind of relax, yeah, yeah, wow. Thank you, Charlotte, thank you. And I hope our listeners will not only participate, but also kind of play that back. I think that's great. And I like the word you use, self preservation. I like that. We all have different words for it, but self care is it's overused, and it does sometimes have the wrong connotations. I like to use rest and recovery, but I get it. I love it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you

Selma:

in the work that you do, Charlo, why do you have such a strong feeling that you have to speak up and have a voice for people in the caregiving role? Where is that coming from?

Charlotte Bayala:

That's coming from me being the person that I felt I needed to have for myself when I was a caregiver, when I first became a caregiver, I think that it's I continue first, because I didn't realize I had the option to stop. There's so much need, and there's so many people that are not enjoying their lives for so many different reasons. The one reason that I can help people with is because they're caregivers, and they have that burden of that role that they didn't necessarily accept to have in the beginning. And so if I can help a group of people, I mean, we have, what are we over 50 to 5.2 million caregivers. Like it's just going to keep increasing worldwide. You know, who knows what the number is? If there is one little thing in that huge world of people that need this, it's the least that I can do right, to just share so that people can see themselves, to know that they're not alone, that the things that they're thinking, that they're going through are not just them, and that they do deserve to be able to find joy in their lives so that they can enjoy the people that they're caring for. If I can do that, even if it's just 15 minutes a week, then that's what I'm going to

Zack Demopoulos:

do. That's awesome. Thank you so much. On behalf of all the caregivers out there on their journey. And we all know that journeys are pre, during and post. Can you just briefly tell us about your caregiver journey? And then what would you tell somebody starting theirs as far as advice?

Charlotte Bayala:

Yeah, I've been a caregiver for my husband going on 13 years now. He has an incurable thyroid cancer that he will most likely be able to live with for the rest of his life. However, I think that anyone who's a caregiver for someone who has a chronic illness or a disability, you know care, knowing that you're caregiving long term is a is a blessing, yes, but also, I feel people don't necessarily understand that, then that's long term, you caregiving. And so when I first became a caregiver, you know, I fell into the deep end of that spiral that we all maybe go through in the beginning where, like, everything fell away, except for what needed to be done for my husband and my daughter and to quote, unquote, keep it all together right, sacrificing everything that I did for myself, all the self care that I had, all of the prioritizing the things I needed to do. And there was one moment where worry became such a big problem that I felt like, you know, I was, I felt like I was walking around with a screen of like a dog shelter commercial in front of me at all times like I could cry for nothing, for like missing a step or and so I reached out to my doctor, and she said to me, Well, I think first before we start, you should try meditation. And that completely angered me, because I was a meditation teacher and a yoga teacher at the same time, and I had immediately. I immediately felt worried that people were going to find out that I'm teaching everyone how to do the things that I'm not doing for myself and and so I had the skills to help myself. I had the ability to find access to everything that I needed to do for my own self preservation, and I couldn't see it because of how clouded my eyes were because of caregiving. So I would tell someone who has just become a caregiver, don't judge yourself for feeling like you failed because you were doing things for yourself, and then you suddenly forgot how to do those things, because it happens to the best of us, but it's knowing that you deserve to take time for yourself as difficult it is going to be, it really needs to somehow become imperative for you to figure out how to fit it into the new life that you have and to actually understand that your your life has now changed, and that you have to make adjustments.

Selma:

We had a guest not too long ago who said it really well also, and she said, change the G word from guilt to grace and give yourself some grace. Yeah, as we're going through the journey? Yeah, so I hear you. I just wondered. I remember, in one of the podcasts that I that I heard you talking, you said, how important it is to keep your sense of humor during the journey. Can you share with us, maybe a little story or a brief incident where, you know, it's just memorable or something that was really funny or encouraging for you in your journey.

Charlotte Bayala:

Yeah, when it's caregiver related, a lot of the humor comes from just interactions that my husband and I have, because, thankfully, our sense of humor is is complimentary. We started out at a hospital system that in the cancer center, they decided that it would be best to fill the waiting room with old school photo albums of animals like chickens and dogs and cats and and you would so the first time we sat down, I was like, Oh, why are these all these huge binder like things just sitting around, and I'm looking through them, and I'm like, I don't, I don't get it. And I looked to my husband, I was like, What is this crap? And he was like, What do you mean? And I flipped through it, and, um, he was like, I What are we looking at? And I said, I don't know the menu, like, I don't get

Zack Demopoulos:

the hunter, the Doctor, what the heck and

Charlotte Bayala:

so. And then right after, like, we're looking through it, they call him up, and this is our first time, you know, stepping up to like the nurse the check in station, and everyone spoke slowly and carefully, and we walked away, and I looked at him, and he looked at me, and we just bust out laughing, because we're like, I mean, this is just being diagnosed with cancer. This is checking in for our first oncology visit. And we're like, What the heck is happening? Like, are we supposed to be? Are we breaking? Like, what is going on? And we sat down and just, we were just dying laughing because of it. So sometimes when we see binders in oncology waiting rooms, we're like, oh, there it is. And I feel like having those moments with the people that you care for, like it really helps create a bond you're you're sharing a moment in something like that was our first visit to an oncologist that should not have created laughter, but to be open to laughing at something and enjoying a moment, even with and not trying to escape from or pretend it's not happening, those those moments that you're in the middle of, is important. That's wonderful story.

Zack Demopoulos:

Great story. You just made me think of days when I was a pharmaceutical rep. We go into doctor's offices and you would see the most bizarre things. I love the one who's no offense to doctors out there who are skiers, but I love the one where there's all the pictures of him skiing everywhere, and it's an orthopedic

Charlotte Bayala:

where he gets all his money from. All right,

Zack Demopoulos:

we paid for that Aspen trip. We paid for that boulder trip. I can't tell you how much we just love you being here because of your podcast, and I wanted to make sure we shared it as a resource for employers. For employees, i. A great, valuable resource, because you've got a nice, quick, 15 minute narration that will be very helpful. But I also you do work with employers, and so can you just share a little bit about what work you do? And then also, if you don't mind, do you have a couple of suggestions for employers that might be listening in as to what they can do a better job of supporting caregivers.

Charlotte Bayala:

Yeah, well, first better job at supporting caregivers do something in a month other than November.

Zack Demopoulos:

I loved your show on Caregiver day. Oh, you folks, you got to listen to

Charlotte Bayala:

that one. I have an issue with only speaking to caregivers one month of the year, I get that it's good for an awareness and everyone's on top of it, but please do things for your caregivers other than November, just because it's it's caregiver month. What I do with employers is I literally just work with them, their ERP groups or their their groups that they have for specific people in their organization to help them figure out ways to create programming and support for their caregivers and so for every organization, it's different. Sometimes it's me coming in to do a talk or a listening session. Other times, it's creating wellness content that will, you know, some people have mindful Mondays, and they'll have me create just very short meditations, and they'll send it out through an email. And so it's things that people can sit down at the beginning of their day or after a meeting. You know, there's so many different ways that you can use breathing and meditation throughout a work day. Or we get creative. You know, a lot of people have started talking now about maybe collecting stories and having in house mini podcasts to get the stories from the caregivers and in their offices, so that other people can understand more about what it's like to be a caregiver and be an employee. So it's a great idea. I love it when companies are open to having more than the standard webinar, right? Because I feel like putting in the time and the effort to do something different that people will actually pay attention to, especially the caregivers. Caregivers don't like being talked to like they like being seen and heard, and their experience is validating. But there is a way where you can make it feel just kind of like, well, the company is doing this just because it checks a box, like, we don't want that feeling anymore. And so working with people like me and like the two of you so that they understand a little bit better what it's what is important for caregivers to hear, and how can they approach with empathy instead of just so that it's fitting the bill?

Zack Demopoulos:

Awesome, awesome. And how can people find out more about you? Yeah, they can

Charlotte Bayala:

find me at cancer caregiver podcast.com and I'm everywhere online as cancer caregiver podcast except from LinkedIn. I'm Charlotte Biola.

Zack Demopoulos:

Awesome. Congratulations on being recognized as a short on the short list. Thank you. You got my vote. I got a good feeling that those other 14 competitors better. And see what's coming,

Charlotte Bayala:

we'll find out. Wishing you well. Thank you. Thank you for having me here.

Zack Demopoulos:

Thank you for tuning in. Be sure to catch new episodes of working caregivers, the invisible employees podcast every other Tuesday. Please also visit our website. Invisible employee advocates.com to subscribe to our newsletter, purchase our book and learn more about how we can help you strengthen your workplace to become more supportive of working caregivers you.