Host

Hey everybody, welcome back to another episode of the Vanguard Wall. I feel like I say this every episode, but I've been looking forward to this for a while. You and I met. Man, it's been a while ago. I don't really know when we first started talking because I think I've been following you for a while on the internet. I found you, man, I think it was over a year ago, is when I first kind of started figuring out who you were and saw you, but you got you did a soul, I think it was SoulCon 365. It was a devotional.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

Host

And I I noticed it was you really unique. You were really speaking to men about masculinity and and being, you know, being a Christian. You know, I have a friend named Terry Wilson. He he wears a shirt sometimes that says save not soft. And I love that. And I you really, yeah, when you were talking about that devotional, it really embodied that. And then kind of fast forward, you know, I became friends with Will Kaufman, who's a director. He added me to like a Christian group, yeah, an Instagram. And then all of a sudden I saw you post, you know, something there one day. I didn't realize you were part of the group. I didn't hadn't really paid attention. I was like, holy cow!

unknown

That's cool.

Host

And then I think that's when I reached out, hey dude, you should come on the podcast. And then we we ended up linking up. We got to know each other while we were doing your your prep, man. And you've just got a just a super fun story, thank you, an interesting story. So I know time is really important. You're an actor, you're a writer, speaker, you've got a lot of things going on. And so I just really want to thank you for taking the time and making the time to come on here and telling your story.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'm honored. Thank you, brother. Yeah, exciting.

Host

Before we uh we jump off, I want to introduce Cody, give you a solid intro so people know a little bit about you and about what we're about to talk about. Thank you, brother. A kid chasing parties and if he promises opens a Bible and a Navy barracks, and his entire world changes in one second. From nuclear deterrence missions spanning the globe to riding his way back from the darkness of depression, not for a book deal, but just to survive. Today you're about to meet Cody Bobe, Navy veteran and formal naval air crewman on a nuclear warfare platform that also did electronic warfare. You've been a husband for 19 years, you're a father, an author, and the kind of man who embodies what it means to be a warrior in every sense of that word. But this isn't a story about success and glory. This is about a man who encountered Jesus at 18 in a moment of desperation, who learned discipline in the back of planes preparing for nuclear war at war, who got out of the military with nothing but hopes and dreams, and then had to fight his way through brutal rejection while battling waves of depression that threatened to take him under. When the depression screamed so loud he couldn't think straight, Cody started writing, not for publication, not for an audience. He wrote letters to himself. He wrote what he believed God was whispering to his soul when the pain was so screaming. Those raw, desperate writings became SoulCon Warrior 365, a devotional that hit number one in two categories and number nine on Amazon's bestseller lists because it speaks to something men rarely talk about. The dark moments when you want to quit everything, and how you find the strength to keep going. This isn't your grandfather's devotional. This is a naval veteran who understands discipline, a man who meditates for 30 minutes daily, a husband who stayed faithful through deployments and chaos, and a soul who knows what it's like to feel like a pathetic loser while still choosing to get up and be a warrior. Whether you're a believer or a skeptic, a veteran or a civilian, someone winning or someone barely hanging on, Cody Bobe's story will challenge you because real biblical masculinity isn't about perfection. It's about stewarding your mind, your fitness, your emotion, and your life with massive intensity, even when, especially when you're struggling. So buckle up. This conversation goes deep. We're talking about military, marriage, missions, all the stuff having to do with deployments, the brutal reality of pursuing impossible dreams, mental health, meditation on what it really means to be a warrior in a world that desperately needs men who refuse to quit. This is the story of Cody Bobe, and it starts right now.

unknown

Wow.

Host

I love that, man. You've got a such a unique background.

SPEAKER_01

That's cool.

Host

You know, thank you for sharing. I know your wife is a huge part of your life. You've been married for 19 years. Before we really dive into your story, what do you think is one of your secrets to success in your marriage?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, vulnerability. If and this is this is the secret to what I have found to men living in power and consistency if you're vulnerable. And and vulnerable is strength, even though it feels like weakness. But when when I can communicate to my wife and be vulnerable with her, i it changes everything to say, hey, you know what? I'm actually feeling a little scared by this. And I've faced so many impossibilities. I'm facing impossibilities again. We'll talk about that. But when when you communicate that sexually, your needs, your, your, your expectations, when you when you communicate vulnerably and authentic authentically with your your sexual hunger, because part of my story, I mean, I've never met a time in my life that I can remember where I wasn't horny. So I love my marriage. I love that God created sex. I've abused that. And in thank God in my marriage, I've honored that. But a great sex life starts with vulnerability and that creates intimacy. And and I think for every man listening, it's it's it's a fire that we have to continue to keep lit and contain in the fireplace and not let it consume our entire house. So I would say vulnerability is the top one.

Host

I love that, man. Thanks for sharing that. Yep. So you were born in the the 1980s, man. As it's funny, as my daughter's been saying lately, is like, yeah, you're from the 19s. It's just an odd, odd, odd thing that she said that makes me laugh. But take me to your kind of your earliest memories of your childhood. Where did you grow up? What was life like?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so broken home in the 19s, right? In the 19s. And I was raised with my dad in the 19s, and that's very abnormal. So I realized, you know, I think I was either six months or 18 months old based on what I can find when my parents were separated, and I lived with my dad my whole life and had visitation with my mom. But when you're a kid growing up and trying to find your way, because puberty sucks. You hit puberty, you you know, you're everything starts to change, growth, hair, you know, like all of a sudden now you're you're you're thinking about what men think about, and you are trying to socially get along with people and find love and acceptance with people. You you find out really fast when you come from a broken home, especially in the 1980s, that you're different. And and just like I do, and I'm sure you do, I vet my kids' friends. I do research on them and I on their parents. And like we we don't do slumber parties, like we we don't do that type of stuff. And we're we're very I I I know too much now to be able to not be very disciplined. Well, I was the kid that I wouldn't let my kids hang out with, and I was the home that I didn't want my kids going to. And when you see really good put together when I was growing up and I saw good put together families, I'm like, I want that. Like I like I want my dad and my mom to be able to go to a sporting event and not scream and fight at each other and embarrass the absolute hell out of me. I wanted that, but I didn't know how. And then I'd I'd want a friendship, and I'd see those friends get like kind of put put off. And I I I and I understand it, but when you come from a rough background and you're trying to make friendships, the rough guys accept you. And I got accepted by the party and culture and grew into that.

Host

If we can go back a little bit, I mean it is extremely uncommon for you know an 18-month-old to get placed with their dad. What was going on with your mom?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, a lot. A lot that I've heard, a lot that I've read, um, just in that of you know, instability at the time. And the judge made that decision, and the judge gave custody to my dad in full custody, and you know that that is super rare in the 1980s. And my brother, I have a brother 19 months older than me, and my dad, we grew up together. And in all sense of the word, I think we all grew up together. That's my dad really tried, and he's a really good dude. I I can't imagine, like I have an amazing wife and I have two kids. I can't imagine trying to do it on your own in a culture like that, and he had his you know own business, but it was it it came with a lot of things that develop you emotionally skewed, and you have to be it's like the fight or flight, you have to be fight, and you have to protect yourself and you have to protect those emotions.

Host

Did you have a relationship with your mom at all growing up?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, I did, and it was really interesting. So uh eventually uh now we have a really good relationship, and I'm super thankful for it. But it was really always dicey, and it was kind of that feeling of when you had that relationship, kind of like what crowd were you pleasing? Like if it was if it went good, because my parents still don't get along to this day, and it would it would make home life really bad if you talked high about one person or the other. So I felt like a peacekeeper in it, but it was constant warfare, and you're living in warfare of like you you don't understand what's happening, like you don't have the maturity to understand, but you're like, dang, I enjoy spending time with this person. Why are we meeting for visitation at a police office? I don't understand. And then you you see the other side and you see your dad, and you get to know them both, and you you just don't have like I didn't realize at the time. Now, now as a man, I get it. It's like, man, you don't have the ability to comprehend what's what's going on, and you don't have the ability to emotionally process it. So what I did was what every young man would do is just bottle it up and let it pretend like it didn't exist, and then it explodes at the wrong times.

Host

You know, being a kid from a broken home, you know, especially when divorce wasn't common, was there a sense of isolation you felt, like being kind of in a different family? I mean, you you you just kind of said that you would see like you know, good families, and you're like, hey, I want that. What did you have those conversations with your parents? Never, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I was super isolated. And I remember being at parties. I didn't like parties. I actually didn't like I st I still am learning to really like people. There's some people, you know. That's nothing. Yes, I mean I you know the um I love Jesus, but I'm learning to like people. And at that point, I didn't like any of it, and I just I I was really learning to hate life. So yeah, it was it was tough, man. It was but it wasn't, you know, tough is always relative, and and I tell people because people will be like, yeah, well, but it wasn't this and it wasn't this, but it was the tough that I knew, and and dude, like we sit down and do a hundred push-ups right now, that's a certain tough that sucks in the moment. But kids that don't have the ability to compare what tough is and they're going through that, where it's emotionally complex tough, they they don't know how to process it. And I had no idea how to process it.

Host

Age 13. I know we one of the things we had talked about, you started falling into alcoholism. I mean, how does a 13-year-old fall into something like that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Apple Puckers was my first time. So I was at a party, and a guy's like, hey man, try this, and we're hanging out, and you know, I wanted to be like, I like these guys, and I was like, Oh, yeah, cool. I'll I'll try it. And I had a I had some and I was like, oh, that tastes really good. And then I had a couple shots of it, and all of a sudden that that pain in my brain started to go down, and I found that release, and I was like, man, this is nice. And then I saw a side of me come out that I'm like, man, this is a different side. I've never had this side come out, a side that would be wild and party and dance, and where typically the the old salty me is this like, you know, at 13, without alcohol, I'm a disgruntled old man with a cigar talking about old war stories, and I no 13-year-old wants to be that person. So at 13 I realized alcohol was an escape for me, and I loved it.

Host

Age 14, man, you're knee deep in it in in that life. Can you tell us a little bit about kind of what was going on? Is whatever you feel comfortable with?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So, you know, 13, it really starts at 14, 15, that age, right? I I start to realize, man, this is there's there's a side of me that I really enjoy when this happens because I actually didn't like the idea of going to parties. But then once I had Jaegermeister and Red Bull, all of a sudden it was fun. And I started to realize that like this side that's pent up inside of me of the frustration, the difficulty, the hurt, the pain. At this point, I wouldn't like cry myself to sleep. Cause you know, like men don't cry. And that's what my mentality was of like, I want to be a man. Well, dude, I'm uh 14. Like you you're you're not even close to a man. I'm 40 and still barely a man. So at that point, I started to realize, oh, there's there's a whole lifestyle here, and there's acceptance, and there's the girl culture that I got into of like, oh man, you're partying, you're with your boys, and then there's a girl, and then you can have an orgasm with them, and then you build that social status with like, oh man, that girl we did stuff together, and then that girl we did stuff together, and the boys, which uh was really interesting for me. Like, I cared more about camaraderie with my brothers than I did about like relationships with girls, and I just wanted love and acceptance, and I wanted a brotherhood, and I thought I could find it in partying. So I pushed harder and I had no idea what it would lead to.

Host

Did you feel at some point like you were rotting or that you knew you were kind of on a destructive path, but you knew it fell well? I mean, what was going you know, what was if you can remember, because it's a while ago.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I can remember very vividly. I I would have friends that would pass out drunk and I I was like immune to it, to passing out. And I could drink so much, and I remember thinking, like, why isn't my brain making me pass out? Because it'd be sure great to pass out right now. We do drinking games and hang out, and I I could just out drink anybody. And I mean most people. But I'd see people pass out at parties and I'd still be awake and I wasn't the best sleeper. And I'd look at myself in the mirror at 2, 3, 4 a.m. thinking, I hate what you've become. And I remember wanting something that I couldn't figure out what I wanted. Because the partying lifestyle, I was getting most for a heterosexual male, I was getting most things that you could want. And it was just destroying me inside. And you know, hey, go do this fight and experience this and have you know, go go get, you know, go get a bar from this girl and go go do all these things. It's like I was doing that and sexual activity here and all these things, and I I I was miserable inside. And when when I started to think through those things, I remember thinking, like, I'd see churches and I'd have no comprehension of what it was, but it was like there was a part of my heart that wanted to be there. So one of the first times in high school, I go to a youth group, and this is really important. I tell my kids this all the time like, hey, look for the guy that is me. I walked into youth groups and people would joke of like, what are you doing here? That that is not a joke you want to do to a guy that is wanting something he doesn't know what he's looking for, and is is in that youth group, and his name is Jesus. And I saw people in there treat me like an outcast. It's the last thing I wanted. Like, that's the the my cryptonite. If you treat me like I don't belong, F you, I I will beat, you know, like we'll go outside and fight, and I'm never coming back here. And I remember having that feeling so many times. So then there was an FCA in my high school, Fellowship of Christian Athletes, and I love FCA now. But I remember walking in and thinking, maybe this is something I could do. Like, and then I see the people doing the keg stands at the party the weekend before, and they're talking about Jesus, and I'm like, this is BBS. Like that's like that's this isn't what I'm looking for. Like, I don't want to pretend. I feel like I'm pretending when I get drunk, and you know, like I feel like I'm I want to be authentically vulnerably me. This isn't it so I was looking, man. I was I wanted to be a good person so bad, and I couldn't be faithful to a girl that I was dating. I cheated on them all the time. Um I wanted to be faithful and committed, and I couldn't do it.

Host

You have a son that's about that age now. Yeah, but what do you try to give him that's different than what you got growing up?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's a great question. I try to give him vulnerability to him of and I try to because he's such a good kid. Like I have got to know your kids and they're amazing. And and seeing them, but but seeing my kid, he's the exact opposite of everything that I was, and he's so much better. And like I he still is a better person than I am today, like at 14. He loves people deeper, he likes people a lot. But I just try to invite him into a story of hey, I'm a 40-year-old that is walking with the Lord. I deal with these things, I fight depression. He sees how his friends, you know, like he'll he'll be with his girlfriends and like dad, they they looked you up on social media and they'll you they they think you're hot. And I, you know, I talk with him about that of like, hey, here's the deal. I love your wife, I love your mom, she's my wife. What people say and what they do, it can't infiltrate my heart. And this is why dad wars for purity. And I I invite him into a process, and we do a thing right now called steak and sex, and it's what I recommend to every guy if your kid likes steak. Say, hey, we're gonna go out and have a steak, and you can ask me anything about sex that you want, and I'll answer any of your questions within reason. Like if he's like, Hey, what time of day do you and mom have sex or where do you guys have sex? I will answer, like how some of those you don't need to know. But I'll answer any question that you have, and I try to always just invite him into the journey of masculinity where he is and never make him feel broken with anything.

Host

You know, I love that man, especially. I mean, I'm a little bit older than you, our generation. That was such like a faux pas thing, right? Like, I don't even think I don't remember my parents holding hands or I don't even remember public displays of affection at all. And it was like this thing, you know what I mean? And like the the thought of your parents. But I, you know, we live in a day and age now where it's everywhere, right? And if you think that your kids in sixth grade don't know what sex is, you're a fool. And so, you know, I don't know how it became so uncomfortable for men to talk about it, but it's such a huge part of our life, and it's you're unashamed of speaking on that. And I I really like that because, you know, I I think it is our role as a parent to teach our kids about that. We've left that to society, and society's a lot different than it was in the 80s, man. I mean, you can turn on damn near any regular TV show and see some extremely graphic scenes that are you know almost embarrassing for your kids to see, right? Yep. And so if they don't learn it from you, especially a healthy way, yeah, they're gonna learn it somewhere. Yeah. So I think that's awesome that you as a father are taking your son, like, you know, I remember you were telling me that, and that's that's something I definitely took away from you because I again, man, let's teach our kids. You know, we have a ton of dads that listen to this, you know, and I think it's it's great, you know. Take your son out and teach it. And they can learn from your mistakes. You don't have to be, you know, a Christian author or whatever, man. Like they can, you know, I I I tell people all the time I don't give marriage advice or parenting advice because I've never been good at either, but I'll tell you everything I failed at. Yeah, but because you can still learn from your failures.

SPEAKER_01

Because that is is where growth happens. And I tell guys all the time, it's okay to say, I don't know. Hey, Dad, what do you think of I don't know, man? I don't know. And it's okay to meet your son at that place to say, I don't know the answer to that, but let me tell you what I've done wrong. And my son's always like, Dad, I can't believe like, thank you for telling me that. Like, it's awesome. I never thought that you went through something like that. It's like, oh buddy, I have a laundry list that you're not mature enough to know yet. Like, because I always say, like, talk to them where they're at, and very important for dads, don't go with a list to tell them about sex. Go with ears to hear about sex and talk to them where they're at. Because if they have questions about certain things, you want to listen, but you don't want to give them your instructions. Nobody, and still, I've yet to meet a man that wants to sit down with somebody and be told everything what to do. That's why boot camp sucks. Nobody wants to just sit and get lectured by somebody. We want to sit and have a relationship with somebody. We want to be heard, we want to be understood, and and that's what we have to do with our kids. And I've done that with my son. I've tried to uh his whole life.

Host

Yeah, that's a great point. I mean, and we'll we'll kind of go back, but uh, you know, I we were raised in different generations, and you know, I remember, you know, I have an older child, and you know, I tried to raise them initially like I was raised, right? But the reality is I had to change at some point because I finally realized I was raising my kids for a world that no longer exists. Yeah. You know, when I grew up, it's very my dad was, you know, you do what as I say, you know, it was just kind of the separation, right? Where I've tried to really try to connect with my kids because, you know, that the world that you and I were grew up in, it's gone. So if you don't morph and change and you're still trying to prepare your kids for the world that you grew up, you're already behind the power curve.

SPEAKER_01

You're behind. Yep.

Host

Uh before we dive into your kind of, you know, what led you to joining the military, you you said something I thought was extremely interesting when we did the podcast prep. And it was one of the things you said was I wanted to be a good person, but you hated who you'd had become. Can you kind of explain that internal conflict that was going on?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I found, man, it it was the nuclear bomb on my soul that it was just like the warning indicators kept going off, like the nuke is inbound and it's gonna kill you, and you know the catastrophe is gonna happen and you have no idea how to stop it. And you're trying to like, you know, throw up a missile at a nuke and stop it. And you're like, this is gonna destroy everything that I am, but I don't know how to stop this. Like, oh, I'm gonna be a good person. I'll never forget in high school. I was like, I'm gonna I'm gonna be a good person. I'm not gonna use God's name in vain. Like, who has that thought? And it was within about three or four weeks, I was using God's name in vain more than I ever had in my life. And I'm like, I can't even do that. Like, I just want to be a good person. And I I remember thinking, like, because people talk to me because I played golf in high school, and people talked to me about like, well, where do you want to go play? I was really good, what college? And I just remember thinking, like, I want to be like a police officer, I want to do something that is like heroic because I feel like such a coward in my life right now. And I I I couldn't answer that question of like, I want to be good, but I'd go party on the weekends, and like I'll never forget there was one party, and it broke breaks my heart to think about that. I had a girlfriend that was really, really kind and awesome, and she was head over heels in love with me. And I'm like, this is such a good girl. And she wanted to lose her virginity to me, and I was an asshole. And I remember thinking, I want to be a good boyfriend to her. I go to a party and I start drinking and we start partying. I'm with my boys, and there's another beautiful girl there, and I end up in a room making out with this other girl, with my incredible girlfriend down there, and all of a sudden, and I'm it, you know, like when you're drunk, you have the moments where you like come back to, but it's like a a movie that you see only every three minutes of when you're when you're drunk. It kind of feels like in your head, and when you're that drunk. And I hear a knock on the door, and I stand up and I'm ready to fight whoever it is. And it's my buddy, and he's like, hey man, there's somebody at the door for you. And I thought I was getting ready to go fight somebody, and I'm like, No, I'm busy. Like, no, I'm good. And it was my I walked down and it was the girl that I came there with my girlfriend, and she looked at me with tears in her eyes, and she reached back to slap me, and I was like, I just took it. And she walked away crying, and I remember thinking, you're a piece of shit. And I walked back in, continued to do what I was doing, and she walked away thinking, and and I remember I was like, it's impossible. I can't do this. And it was, it was one of the hardest moments of my life. I don't even remember the slap, you know. I mean, like it's a young, I mean, a girl hitting a guy typically is is is not intimidating in the first place. I I love some action movies, but I've never been in a dark alley and seen a woman walking at me and be like, Oh, I hope she doesn't beat me up. So, but I just remember the tears in her eyes, right? Of like, and the pain I caused, and her hand coming back and just thinking, like, you deserve to do this as hard as you can. And that awareness to me killed my soul even more. And I went back into what I was doing. You know, obviously that relationship didn't work, but the awareness of being good just kept going further and further away from me. And the the shit bag I was becoming continued to consume my life, and I didn't want it to, and those tendrils were coming up, and the good I wanted to be was so far away.

Host

What uh how did the military come on your radar?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So I was uh I was with my mom, and I really didn't know a lot about the military for any guy that can relate. The first online video game was SOCOM. Did you ever play SOCOM? Oh yeah, dude. So like you have a headset. This was like you like tell the dudes to do stuff, yeah. And then it's like, oh, it was like the original online gaming, but SOCOM US Navy SEAL video game was so fun. That's about all I knew of the military. You know, 9-11, 2001, I was a sophomore in high school, and I remember thinking somebody needs to pay for what this is. Like Innocent Lives Died. And I remember watching it in the morning before school started, and it was one of our teachers' rooms, and thinking this can't be real. I hope we absolutely put a boot in their ass and do that. And but I wish I could say me going into the military was heroic because it wasn't. It was it was a coward trying to escape to find something worth living for. And I was with my mom and we were having breakfast, and I saw this this placard at iHop and it said, be someone special. And it was like U.S. Navy SEALs, and I saw and it was like time stop for me of like, oh, I've been fit my whole life. I love fighting, and I could do that. Like my my dad almost went to the Olympics for swimming. We've all I grew up on the water, so I'm a great swimmer. I could do that. So my only desire seeing that was like maybe that would help make me be a good person. Maybe joining the military, getting out of this situation, and that would be the the sip of water I'm longing for when I go to all everything else, and it's like go to take a sip of water, and I'm getting gasoline poured on a fire of destruction in my soul. Maybe that's the water that will put this out and satiate my my thirst. And as anybody knows that goes in the military.

Host

Sounds great.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, not always how it works out. Yeah, yeah.

Host

You you have uh you told me like a funny story of this female recruiter when she finally told you, like, hey, you had to you have to come in early in the morning.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah, super cool. Yeah, she's she I walk into a recruiter's office and I was uh Navy SEAL. I was like, cool. I was like, hey, I want to be a Navy SEAL. And she's like, Oh yeah, sure you do. And I was like, No, I do. I was like, what do I have to do to do it? And I didn't know there was any, like I didn't research like at this point to use the internet in my house. We had one computer that we got my senior year of high school, and if you get a phone call in, you're off the internet for 45 minutes. So there's not like a deep research dive you can do on a live. I forgot about that.

Host

Oh yeah, you had AOL, it came in through the phone line. Yeah, I totally forgot about that. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So that was unless you want to go to like a library, which I never did, and look at an Encyclopedia Britannica, right? I mean, that was like your research. So I go in and she's like, okay, well, we have a test tomorrow morning at 6 a.m. if you meet us there. And I look at her like just stone face of in the morning. She's like, yeah. And she was just like not nice to me at all. And uh she was a short little yeah, kind of grouchy lady. I was like, okay, it's just gonna be a late night then. I'll see you there. And she's like, Yeah, whatever. And I was in the water that next morning and smoked a test, and she told me about this ASVAB test, and it was intelligence-based, and I was like, Oh crap, I'm a moron, so I'm not gonna do well on that. I said, What's the score that I have to get to be able to do this? And she told me, and I took the test, and I guess according to the military standards, I was super smart, but I always thought I was dumb in high school because I just like cheated to get by and had a good GPA, but didn't ever apply myself. And I realized with the ASVAB, I was pretty smart, and all I wanted to know was, hey, did I pass that test enough to be one of these guys? And she said yes. I was like, Cool, I don't need another number, nothing. Like, when can I go? She said, a year and a half is your first. It's and she explained what a contract billet was, and this was 2003, so it was August 2003, and I'm looking at different universities to go to, or sorry, it was July, so I'm looking at different universities to go to, and I go through the process, and I was like, hey, a year and a half for me is dangerous because I was in a really rough place, and at that point, partying lifestyle had taken over. I love the thrill of stealing a guy's girlfriend, and that doesn't make for good dude relationships in your life. Like there's those guys that want to just absolutely rightfully so beat you up. But I love the thrill of fighting. I love the thrill of I love that thrill so much, but I also hated it. But it was just that, like you and I were talking last night. There's there's few things better in life as a as a like a raging, angry dude that satiates your soul, but in the bad way of just a good bar fight with your buddies, which is I don't condone, but there's the side of like man, that's that's a that's a thrill ride in itself, and and it's a camaraderie builder. So I was like, hey, I can't do that a year and a half. So what are your other options? She's like, well, there's multiple options. Then she gets a recruiter brain on. She's like, actually, I could get you out of here on this day, and it was actually uh September 11th, if I passed all these like MEPS program and going through that, and I'll contract you in. There's five branches of special forces in the Navy. You could do this, and then you could go to boot camp and then pass the tests to be a SEAL there. And she said, then maybe you could get classed up in basic underwater demolition seal school and go forward. And it was rescue swimmer. I was like, I'm in. Let's do it. Two weeks later, I was gone. And September 11th, 2003, I left for boot camp and left that entire life behind me, thinking the military was going to satisfy my soul. And boy, I found out how opposite that was.

Host

Yeah, what was boot camp like for you? I mean, because kind of listening to your story, man. I mean, you kind of had free run of the mill to do, you know, whatever you wanted to do.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

And now you're in basic training when it's the opposite of do whatever you want to do. How did that yeah, yeah, man? Great question.

SPEAKER_01

So I go into a boot camp and it was a rude awakening for me. So I go in, you go through all the paperwork, and you have in the Navy, they call it P days, it's your administrative days, and you you go through the five-day process. But that first night, they come onto the bus and they're screaming at you. And I've never really been screamed at by a guy that I couldn't fight, and it's 2 a.m. and you finally get your like barrack room, and you there's 80 dudes you're sleeping with, and then they're like, Cool, go to bed. And at 4 a.m., a trash can gets kicked across the room and hits my bed. Everybody stands at attention, and nobody knows how to stand at attention at this point, they're just scared. Well, our RDC at that point, our drill sergeant comes up to me staring at me, and I'm just looking at him, and he's looking at me, and he's like, What the hell are you looking at? And he's yelling at me, and I'm like, You like what are you doing? And I like and he's like, Look, look off into the distance. I'm like, I will beat your ass in front of all of these people. And he looked at me and he's like, Huh. And I was like, You told that to your journal instructor? Oh, I was just like, Yeah, I had no idea the rules, but um, he's in my face and he's like five foot two, and I'm like, I'm six one. I'm like, what? I'm playing it. Do you think you're coming from? Thank God I didn't fight him. He would have killed me. I had no idea who he was. But he's like, Okay, I got you. And he started laughing. He walked away, and I was like, Oh, good. Yeah, that's what I thought. And then he made me one of the leaders of the boot camp. So in in in the military, there's uh in the Navy, there's four leaders of your boot camp. And he made me the mastered arms of these guys, so I was one of the leaders, and it was really it was really cool because me and him built a really good relationship, and most of the guys they cycle through, but I was that person the whole time.

Host

You didn't get smoked, dude, for threatening your drill sergeant.

SPEAKER_01

No, he actually told me about it at my graduation. He's like, You're one of the few guys that I like deeply respect that I've I've worked with. And he said, You I s I brought fear to you and I didn't see it in your eyes. He said, You never flinched. And I was like, Man, I'm so glad you didn't after I got to know him, like just like let loose on me. But no, it was it was really cool. So yeah, I I went into boot camp and experienced that, and and I just saw in men things that I didn't have. I saw men being homesick, and I was like, I don't have that. And I saw men longing for comfort and I was longing for life, and I didn't care what it took. I wanted to to live. And I saw these guys complaining about certain things, and I just started to exceed past them because I didn't care about the little things. I wanted to, I wanted to find, can I be a good person? And I delegated certain things I didn't like, you know. I was a terrible leader at that time, but like they're like, iron your underwear. I'm like, hey man, so if you don't want to like do watch tonight, stay and watch, you iron my underwear for me, and I'll make sure you're not on that list. You want some more sleep tonight? So, like these guys took care of me, and we we we had a really good time. But I just didn't, I wasn't longing for the life some of those guys were longing for, and then the comfort.

Host

You passed the SEAL screening, but you got rolled to A school first. Explain kind of what happened.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's really tricky. So, just so everybody knows, I I was a naval air crewman during my time, but what contracted me in was rescue swimmer and that lifestyle. So I go in, I was really fit. So, like my first screening there with the the SEAL group, I you know, you get in the water and you do your 500-meter swim and then you do your pull-ups and your push-ups. And I I trained in Colorado, so I'm now at Great Lakes, Illinois, so I'm at I train at 5,280 feet on average to where now I'm at sea level. And my whole life, I've never been, I didn't travel a ton. So I'm like, oh man, I am way faster here than where I trained. So in Great Lakes, Illinois, I became really good friends with a guy. He was going to BUDS and he ended up being in 251. And we just ran together and we smoked everybody. And so then in the Navy, how they do it is if you're contracted or you want to do special forces, you pass the test to your special forces, you have to be in the water across the base at like 5 30 in the morning, where everybody else has to wake up at 6. So you go, you do that training, you go through all that stuff, and then you come back and meet up with your boot camp division, and you go through the normal boot camp stuff. But yeah, past those screenings, so was ready to go and rock and finished and graduated boot camp. And in the process after boot camp, I had to get hernia surgery right after my boot camp, and it's kind of funny. I thought it was an STD, so I was really afraid of what it was. Because we we come from a time with lifting weights where there wasn't pre-workout. Like we'd do vodka and creatine, like Cell Tech, and we'd mix it and take a shot. I don't drink anymore because of my past, but I still would argue with anybody that's the best pre-workout on the planet. Really? Yeah. And Arnold talks about it because they'd do it, but we'd go lift crazy amounts of weight, you know, popping Androsteen and just like rocking in. And you know, I was in the Mark McGuire days, Sammy Sosa, watching them smash home runs and big, huge, like it was fun baseball.

Host

So you see that kind of yeah, Muscle Tech had all those like supplements that were like borderline steroids, like one polymer off. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

I remember all these things. You've just taken it thinking, like, man. So I didn't know I had hernia, but I thought it was an STD, so I just tried to hide it. And my epididymis started to swell the back of your testicle, and my like I we'd shower all together, and my nuts just like getting big through all boot camp, and and then I had to get it checked, and like, hey, you have a hernia, and so I got it fixed afterwards, and then after it got fixed, then I started to like go through the process of scruffing and getting ready, and they they let me know because in the military you'd have no say. Hey, because of your contract, we're gonna send you to Pensacola. This is what they do in the Navy, unless you're you're contracted, guaranteed a spot, and even a lot of times if you are at that time the pipeline to be a SEAL was or special forces was so saturated. Sometimes they'd send you to an A school first. So my buddy that was contracted and that went on 251, but it's 251, he still had to go to AOD school first, his A school, and we both ended up in Pensacola together. So they sent me to Pensacola. So then you still have to like wait for your shot to go.

Host

So is that where you were going to be a rescue swimmer?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So you go to Pensacola and then they actually have rescue swimmer school in Pensacola, and so I was going there and going through the A school, and we actually did our A school first. So my A school was a little bit longer than his. My buddy ended up taking off for 251 and graduated with 251. And I was going through the pipeline and fell into the partying lifestyle really, really hard, thinking like, oh no, it was that feeling of like I want to really be a good person, and I keep falling into this, and I just fell in deeper and deep, and that quicksand was just like those hands underneath pulling me down into the pain and drudgery of what I didn't want to become. And I hit rock bottom. And for me, I was with my buddies and guys that were gonna be special forces to air crewmen, and we go down to Panama City, spring break in Florida, and we party like young wild guys for four and a half days, and we're taking little naps and drunk and partying and doing everything that you can think of in the partying heterosexual lifestyle. And I just realized that this is this is it. Like this, I'm done. Like this is it was the darkest moment of my life because I realized nothing I can find will satiate this this thirst I have. And then I'm in my hotel room and one of my best friends at the time comes in just like bloody, and he's a pretty boy, and he's the best fighter I've ever seen. So he was a bouncer at a club, one of the biggest clubs in Indiana before he came in. Still to this day, Street Fighter, I would negotiate with him, I would never fight this guy, just violent. I've never seen a fist fighter so good and blood everywhere, and his seven diamond shirt just covered in blood, you know, just you see your buddy and you weren't there for him. And even if I wanted to be there with him, he got jumped by six dudes. He picked a f not jumped, like he picked a fight with them and lost, so not jumped, but I remember thinking the thing that I love the most, it's the brotherhood, the friendship. And I wasn't there for my buddy. And he could have died by those guys. He had to go to the ER, and I wasn't even if he called me, I wasn't coherent enough to help him. So we're driving back, and that drive back from Panama City to Pensacola, Florida. I was just done, man. I'm thinking, we're gonna get in trouble. We're gonna like my buddy, his face is wrecked. So we had a lie and we sucked to it, and the lie passed, and everybody believed it. And I was like, I was there was a side of me that was hoping that the lie would get found out so I could actually get some relief to what was going on inside of me. And I remember thinking, dang, what was the lie? So I forget exactly. I'd have to really go back. Guys got hit by a station wagon. What was the lie? It was something on the beach, and it we all, those those four of us, so we all stuck to it, and it passed. And it was, it was a I forget what the lie was exactly.

Host

At what point did you transition from the rescue swimmer to being an air crewman?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So we go back and i it's a part of that. Can I answer one thing first and get into it? So we we get back and I'm wondering at that point what else can I do? And I had no idea, man. I we go through program on Monday, Tuesday, there was this Bible in my room, and I walk in it's 5 30 on Tuesday, I grab my Bible, I set it on my bed. I didn't know there were two parts of the Bible, I knew nothing about the Bible. I open the Bible on my bed, I'm the only one in my barracks' room, but I get on my knees and I said, God, if you're real, I meant I said, the the only thing that I'm good at is picking fights. And I I said this out loud, I'm like, I'm not really good at finishing them, but I'm really good at picking them. And if you're real, I'll tell everybody about you the rest of my life. And in one moment, in one moment, I tell you guys this all the time, my entire life changed in one moment. And I remember thinking I I met God, I felt his presence, his presence filled my barracks room. It was every fiber of my being was more orgasmic than anything that I've ever had. And I remember thinking that's better than any orgasm or any high I've ever experienced, and God is real. And I stood up and I walked over in the military, they're called your headmates. And I walked over to my headmate who is on track to be a rescue swimmer and going through that training. I said, Hey dude, I just Met God. He said, Hey man, you're probably still drunk. Like, let's let's let's go. Like, let's and he was joking. Like, what are you talking about? I was like, No, man. I think I met God. Sorry, I know I met God. He's like, Okay, whatever. And from that point forward, my life changed. And also, it was about three weeks later, I I got invited into the Jags room for contract law. And he's like, Hey, here's an option for you. I said, What is that? And he's like, I'm reading it, and it says Oklahoma City. And he's like, There's a dry air crewman billet, and you got selected for this, and based on your ASVAB and your physical fitness, like so you're already in a school to be a rescue swimmer.

Host

Yeah. And they pitch you to go to another job. Is that normal?

SPEAKER_01

Uh yeah. Especially in the Navy, of like if you hit certain qualifications and that that time too. So they're looking to fill all these billets before you actually get solidified and go forward. So dry air crewmen, Oklahoma City. I was like, no, I'm good. Like that sounds terrible. Like I want to see the world and I like beaches.

SPEAKER_03

Okay.

SPEAKER_01

I go back home and my barracks. I know I'm supposed to do it. So I go back and meet with him and say, Yeah, I'm in. And I sign the document. Never go to rescues from a school. Never get a shot to go to SEAL school, the buds. I knew that I was supposed to do that at that point because he told me he said, Hey, once you go through the pipeline and get you get your gold wings as an air crewman, you can put in a package to go to SEAL school from that point, and you you'll be good. I was like, okay, I'm in. Let's do it. So at that point, my entire life and career changed.

Host

What was that like? Was it do you feel like it's something that you surrendered to? Or what was it in that moment and that barracks room? I mean, that's I remember when we we've talked, and this is I think the third time you've brought it. Whatever it was, it was so definitive for you. Yeah. Do you think I mean what was it? What what was it? What was it in that moment? Was it something like God met you there or you needed it so bad? Or do you feel like you were really, you know, if you you hadn't turned when you did, like it was pure destruction? Or I'm just really curious.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. It was that it was rock bottom. And for me at that point, of like you hit rock bottom, and I always say there's like way more levels than you think of rock bottom. Oh, yeah. But for me at that point in my life, that was the lowest I've been. And asking God to meet me there, and I've never done this. Like, hey, if you're real, I'm in and I surrender to you. And now I know as a 40-year-old man that follows the Lord, how real he is, how good he is, and how his presence can change your entire life and change the course of your life. So I'm aware now, as a 40-year-old man, how real God is, how life-changing a relationship with him is. I experienced that in that moment in my barracks room that God's presence is life-changing, it's real, and it's more unique than anything you'll ever experience. So if guys are ever like, yeah, man, that whole Jesus thing isn't for me, I'm like, you haven't met him. Once you meet him, he is for everybody. Because you'll never forget an encounter with Jesus. Your entire life will change. So if if if any guy's like, oh yeah, my tried church and like religion, it's not for me, you haven't met Jesus yet. Once you meet him, everything will change, and you'll you'll never want anything else.

Host

Having a relationship with the savior is a lot different than having religion. It's so different.

SPEAKER_01

And like I didn't go in when I was on my knees, I wasn't like a resume exchange of like, oh, I've been a good person here, and I was actually pretty good here. It was like I I got nothing. I'm a loser. And if you're God, you see that of like some people can see the bravado, and some people can see this, and like, oh, he's physically fit, and he I'm a loser. I got nothing. So I didn't offer a resume, I didn't offer a contract to him. I was just like, if you're real, I'm in. And like I'm good at starting fights, but the Bible's pretty clear, man.

Host

The Bible says we have not because we asked not.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. And that that to where any guy listening, it's oh my gosh, it's the best thing in the world because Jesus meets you where you're at, changes your life, and then he doesn't beat you up for your past. It's not an abusive relationship with a drunk partner. Like it is the best relationship on the planet because then he takes you in loving understanding as your empathetic high priest into your destiny, and he gives you the power to be good and to do it. And it changed everything for me.

Host

That's amazing. And we're gonna talk a lot more about that. So you go to Oklahoma to Naval Air Crew School in uh you worked on E6Bs, or is that what you flew on?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

Can you please explain to the audience? Like we're not in the military. I get accused of using too much military jargon because we all get together, we talk in codes. But can you really kind of explain what you did? I I I know there's some things you can't talk about, but you had a really interesting uh career.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, thanks, man. So from A school, I graduate A school, go to air crew candidate school, then that's also in Pensacola. So air crew candidate school, I shouldn't know this off the top of my head for everybody that's an air crew. Forgive me. I think it's six weeks, eight weeks.

Host

Well, probably the reality is it's probably changed in the last 20 years.

SPEAKER_01

It's kind of a blur, but you gotta like go there and like you you kind of like wait to class up there and then you wait for your class. So like it's you know, the eight hours a day of preparation workout getting beat up, and it's Marines and Navy that go through it together. So great experience. And graduate from that, go to Oklahoma City, and I learn about Tacomo. It means take charge and move out. Tacomo is the the squadron, and then you have different units under it, so like VQ3, VQ four, vq7, but it's all one location at the central command of Oklahoma City, and then you learn about a nuclear ready readiness mission. You have 18 months of training and on-the-job learning. So I've talked to a lot of SEALs because I yeah, never went to BUDS, I never went through that process, but it's like, you know, a lot of people think when you when you finish BUDS, you're locked in and you're a SEAL. But like you finish that part of it, but you then you got to go to on-the-job training, and then you gotta earn it, and you gotta then get the trident as you as you like solidify it in what you're doing, to where when you graduate Eric Candidate school, man, you like are working for those wings of gold, but you don't get pinned for 18 months later, and then you know, you get it slammed into your chest, and you know, like you got your bleeding and all those fun things of like, but you don't you don't get those wings of gold for a long time after. So I went to there, and it's Takamos, some of the most elite minds in our military today. It was super intimidating for me because I'm a big dumb jock from high school, like that's right, and so you go there and it's nuclear readiness. So everything that you're doing is now you're getting all your clearances and your top secrets, and you're going through this stuff that you can't take home with you and study a lot of it, and you're there and you're memorizing just pages and pages. Then you get your NATOPs manual. So not only do you have to know the mission, the importance of that, you have to know how to because I tell everybody like you know, people are like, hey, what branch should I go into, bro? Go into the Air Force, go into the Air Force, because in the Navy, you have your job, and you also have to do everything else. So, like, we were a deployed crew at that point. So the the process of Tachemo is amazing. We could deploy with like, say, 13 guys in a plane. So it's a four-engine aircraft, uh, Boeing 707. You deploy for, you know, maybe 20, 27 days at a time. Sometimes the deployments were longer if you're going to theater, but uh your air time is really governed by you have to have certain time off and you have to have rest time because it's so they don't you don't deploy for typically long periods of time when you're flying as much as we did. But you you have to learn how to operate in the air, you have to learn how to troubleshoot in the air, fix your equipment, and when you're on the ground, fix all of your equipment on the airplane. So you have to learn the electronics of the entire airplane. And when you're deployed, you have to be able to fix that airplane, you have to be able to troubleshoot that airplane. And then because it's not like, oh, like the Air Force is great. Like, let's call this guy when we get to the space, he's gonna come out and fix our no. You are that guy. So you in the in the Navy, when you're going through that pipeline at Tacomo, you have to know all of the operational readiness, you have to know the equipment, you have to know like how to change the oil on the engine to operate nuclear readiness information while you're orbiting for four hours while you have wires coming out of your plane communicating with anything inside of this atmosphere. So you have to know how to operate with some of the highest voltage like there's one piece of equipment with hundreds of thousands of watts out to where if you touch it, it'd just fry your entire body. And you're you're operating that equipment while you're spinning pulling G's for four hours. And you, you know, I just I got to that squad and realized wow, these are some of the smartest men and women I've ever seen. But just to encourage everybody, it's life's more intimidating when you're not living it.

Host

So you were doing nuclear, it was a nuclear communication platform, kind of like C2 command and control, because I know you deployed. Yep. So like nuclear wasn't the only mission you guys had.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so we we picked up when Operation Iraqi Freedom kicked off, our squadron picked up. We we picked up FEMA operations. We we also picked up like command control, we had really incredible equipment on our airplane to be able to listen to and communicate with pretty much anybody in the world. So when the government realized when when we looked at uh uh Iraqi freedom and there was the op area where it's like, oh, okay, cool. So you put somebody up, and most of the activity is over Baghdad, and as you're circling around in an airplane, you could cover it in in an op area. We picked it up communication, command control. So we do, we'd deploy there, and it was you know, you you'd take off we take off out of a base that was a ways away. Alud airbase is what we'd fly out of, and then you hit a tanker, drop on site, and you pick it up, and you're 12 hours of playing risk from you know, tens of thousands of feet in the air. And you're carrying out operations and you're executing on things, and you have guys it's risk with human life below you, and the bad guys, the good guys, your your friends and family below you, which was a different part of warfare that a lot of my buddies that we we served with, it causes a different mental side of fatigue in your soul when when you're in it, but you're above it, and you're not inside of it, but you're experiencing it, right? So you're you're deployed in that area, and then you go back and you're helping with the charge, but you're not hands-on with the charge, but you're experiencing the pain and loss of the charge from a certain amount. So it was strange. It was a strange deployment when you'd go on those.

Host

Yeah, and just so the listeners can kind of understand, Cody was on our communications platform so they would hear everything going on on the battlefield. So troops in contact, yeah, you know, Medivax, just you know, the regular things of war. We also could listen to our adversaries and things like that. So, you know, that's uh you know, 12 hours of eating, you know, all the communication that goes on with war.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like people need backup and air support, and you're calling that ended. You're listening the whole time.

Host

What was like mentally preparing for worst-case scenario, like a nuclear war? Like, that's one of the things that you're training to do. How do you mentally prepare for that? Or or is it real at a young age? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

So yeah, you we it's all theory, right? So it's we don't know. And at that point, you're so young, you don't you don't uh I mean anybody, even my friends that are still in it that are 36 are still so young to understand what what does losing millions of lives with one strike look like. Your family, you just hope for best case scenario that if it were to happen, your family gets viscerated quickly, and you hope for a quick death. Because in that plane, you're EMP hardened theoretically, all of this is theoretical. Like you know, nuclear war is all theoretical to a certain point. So when you're talking about air command and control and you're talking about this warfare operation, worst case scenario that we've known in war, you're preparing for all the time. And there have been a lot of times where we think, oh, it's happening. You take off. Will there be an America when you come back home? Like what could this mission look like when you come back? I mean, those those couple missions that we took off where you get sir, you get claxened, the siren goes off. You just put your flight suit on. Sometimes I didn't even have boots on, and you're just sprinting out your plane, and you take off, and you're in the air for eight hours, twelve hours with underwear, flight suit, no flight boots, and you're ready to go. And you might not come back to a base or a part of that country, and you're not sure.

Host

So did that ever happen in any real-world scenarios? It was all training.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, yeah, yeah. There's there's there's yeah, there's the nuclear activity is way stronger than people think. So it was weird for me when I got out because it was like the Twilight Zone. You see things on the news, and you see things, and you're like, Oh, now you know too much. Like, yeah, you I don't watch the news either. I I can't watch it. And you know, I we served under George W. Bush and Barack Obama, and I heard things under them, and then I'd see things on the television when I was going through it. You know, you're tier one for intelligence and operation for nuclear warfare. So you're privy to a lot of information that's going on, and you get back home and you see things at the barbecue for the church small group, and they're talking about current events, and you're like, that's not even close to accurate. But you can't talk about that, but you see it, and you're like, Oh, I can't trust any of this. So, guys that get so hung up on certain news stories and certain things, it's like even the highest ranking guys that I served with don't know the full truth. So you and I've talked about you like put puzzle pieces together of like, oh, I've heard this and then I've heard this, and I did this mission, but I have to stay ignorant to nuclear war now.

Host

Yeah, you became a NATO ops instructor in a T O P S NATO. NATOPS, yeah. Sorry about that. That was pretty significant. What did what did that take?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it was really cool. So I want to one of my favorite guys on the planet named Chris Strange, who I love him. So he was the NATOPs instructor. He's the guy that actually gave me my like frocked me, gave me my gold wings. Had such a great relationship with him, and he was the NATO's instructor, and I went through all the tests, and uh in the military they have this award called the Blue Jacket of the Year. So it's the best in your rate on your base. And cool story with that. I want to share that. Remind me that I'll share it after. But Natops Instructor goes to the not the best, because there were so many better than me. And I served with literally some of the most brilliant men I've ever been around. But they go to the person that thinks can lead the charge the most effectively. And I was young and he made me the NATO's instructor. So I was of all the AWVs that were doing the job at VQ3, I was AW, that's an advanced warfare. Yeah, so it was it was AT for anybody familiar with the Navy. Previously it was ATO, so it was operational technician operator, and then they switched to the rating system to AWV. And at that point, I took over, and I was the the boss of the air crewmen at that base in that point in my life, and it was it was a really big honor. So you you get that, and it was it was really cool to start to see. But I was the guy they had to fly with to get their wings, and I had to fail one of my my roommate, and you know, I I say you know, a lot of times a true test of the a man's character is how and it's really tough for me, but how you'll treat everyone based on the standard that you live by. So if you have a standard that you live by of excellence, and somebody, like if you favor somebody and kind of coddle them with that same standard, and then you are harsh to this person with it, it shows and reveals your character. So one of the leadership principles that I established then is my standard is excellence, and no matter what, if you don't fall in that standard of excellence in the professional category, I will treat you the same. And that got tested with my roommate, and I had to I went on a deployment with him and I was over him. So the NATOPs instructor is your final check ride, and your check ride is a full deployment. So I'm watching you and everything you're doing, how you eat, sleep, how you interact with the crew, how you interact with operations. We're gonna go into a mission, we're gonna pre-flight the plane. And it was because of me, a good friend of mine didn't get his wings, and it was his final failure, and I had to. So the weight of responsibility for that for me was understanding nuclear readiness and operation of like, are you ready to do this if we have to do it? And he wasn't. So that was a really cool honor for me in my career, and thank God I had a really great, I served with some of the best people, but God gave me a lot of favor in my military career. So I'd love to talk about the blue jacket of the year. No, because it's one of my favorite stories because it's just a really flex of of the reality of who God is. So in the in the Navy, they have you get selected, you get nominated for basewide awards for your pay grade, and then you go up against everybody else. So, like I was an air crewman, I was going up against mechanics and that, all the same aircraft, but you're going up against the best of the best that got nominated, and then you compete on boards. So you're standing in front of boards, and there's multiple boards you go through, six people, eight people asking you all the questions to the history of the Navy, to your job and what you do, and you're standing at attention, answering these questions. And I made it to the final board, and it was between me and literally like a photographic guy with a photographic memory. I'm like, so I was praying. I said, God, I need your help. And I was getting ready to leave to go, and I part of my prayer life is I pray in tongues, and I was praying in tongues, and I felt like the Lord told me to memorize the first six ships commissioned in the Navy. And I was like, that is so random. Like, well, that's not a part of my curriculum, that's not a part of my studies. And it just dropped into my mind. Okay, so I look it up, I memorize it really fast, the first six ships. So you have like, hey, they're gonna probably ask you all of the here's these manuals, they're gonna ask you questions out of, and you study and study and study. I walk in there, recite the Sailor's Creed, you're ready to rock. The first dude, and he's just he's he's a friend now. He's just an asshole. That guy, salty, been in for 30 years. All right, Petty Officer Bobe, tell me the first six ships commissioned in the United States Navy. I just rattled him off. And his eyes is like he's seen a ghost. And we went on with the thing, but I was like, man, that was weird. Like it was a weird moment. He's like, so we go on, and I find out I win the award, and they have a base wide celebration for that person. He comes up afterwards, so you go up and you get the honor and you come back down. He comes up to me and says, Hey, I've got to know who told you. I said, Told me what? He said, Who told you? The question that I asked. I said, No. So I said, Senior chief, you know I'm a weird guy, right? And he's like, Yeah, Bobe, I know you're a weird guy. And I was like, Well, I was praying in tongues before, and I felt like the Lord told me to memorize these. And he's like, Well, I've asked that question my entire time on this board, nobody's ever got it right. And he's like, Well, whatever God you're serving, man, it's working out. For you. And he walked away, and I was like, that was so cool. But guys, it was like it was it was so cool because I knew it was, I thought it was the Lord, right? Like, okay, that's I'm praying. I hear it. The first question I get asked, and it was probably the thing that won the whole board for me.

Host

That's wild. Yeah, it's cool. That is a cool story. Yeah. Did you go to you went to Seer school, didn't you? Yeah. How how was that? That's a very challenging place. It's awful. Have you been to Sear?

SPEAKER_01

No. It was awful. Like, there's no, there's nobody that's like, man, that's a fun program. Like, I don't care what you've I have friends that are Delta, that were Delta, that were SEALs, odd SEAL team six, what not, not one person's like, man, that was like a that was a good program. Let's go back to that. Like, that was enjoyable. No, it was awful. It, you know, I have a I have a picture, I need to find it, of me and my underwear before, and me and my fatigu right after. I lost 28 pounds in six days. And we're going through the program. So you go out to uh I did mine outside in San Diego, then it's three hours outside of San Diego where you do the actual survival training and then the POW process. But uh in the school, the this instructor stands up and he starts to teach and he's like, hey, you guys, you know, like all these things and survival, you have to spoon. And you you look at your partner like you're gonna be comfortable with it. This is why it's so important for you. And I'm like, I'm not spooning, I've never been cold enough to spoon with another man. I'm never doing that. And night three, me and my partner, helicopter pilot. I got the skinniest guy. Gosh, that's the time to just have like he was so skinny, but I'm like, you better get behind me and hug me as tight as you. Oh, it was freezing. It was raining. It was people think San Diego in December's nice. It is awful. And it was raining, and you have a parachute to keep you like like for your blanket. And you have a little a limited amount of time to sleep every night. And I was the coldest I've ever been, and I realized like, oh, survival is the most important thing when you're in those situations. I didn't, I wasn't thinking, oh man, like nothing. Uh there was not like, oh, another dude's next to me. I'm like, man, get as close as you can. Like, let's then let's turn face to face and breathe into like in, and you're breathing to where you're staying warm because it was your body can't stop shaking. And then you're like, okay, cool, we're finally gonna get captured, and they take you through the prisoner of war training, and you're thinking, oh, at least I'm gonna be warm. That was not the case.

Host

Get sprayed with some cold water.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like so, Sear School. I I don't really know, but I'm I'll share this part. But uh, how much you could talk about because I always probably share a little bit more, but it's really fun anyway. So I was a fighter, and any fight you get in, it's fun. Like there fighting is fun when you get to where it's not like a one-punch knockout, but when you get into like a reel, you're throwing punches and like you're going, it's a fun deal. But your adrenaline is up, so you can't really feel the punches, they don't register as much, right? I mean, that you can feel them, but it's not like but my first thing of like you get to see your school, they snatch the hood off your head, and I saw this dude, and uh they called him juggernaut, a humongous man, and he thought you have to close your jaw because they hit you open-handed. And I was like, shoot, I've been slapped by girls. This isn't gonna hurt. Should I close my jaw? And it was like an action movie. He hits me, boom, and I spin and hit the ground and think, oh my gosh, that hurts so bad. And I mean, like, he hit me so hard. I was laying there thinking, this is awful. Like, that was brutal. He's like, stand back up, and I'm like, oh my gosh, I just got slapped, and I don't know if I can do this. Like, I stand back up, closed jaw, and he hits me again, and I don't fall over that time, throws me into a pit, pulls a gun at my face. And at that point, you're sleep deprived. You're they want your brain to be uh in the the the the state where you could hallucinate a little bit and you're you're having a hard time telling reality, and so they're speaking different languages and dialect and you know, all these things of like it's 28 hours of pain, and that sucks, man. So and it's like it's not like all excruciating, they're you know, but like the pain too of just the irritating pain of I want to go, I want to go eat something. So SEER school sucks.

Host

Yeah, I always hear at the end of it, I've obviously had a lot of friends that have gone through that course that when they raise the American flag, everybody normally gets pretty emotional. Yeah. And you know, you realize kind of what you know we've had soldiers go through POWs.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, it's life-changing. When you when you see that flag go up and you see the American flag gets raised, and then our missing in action POW flag goes up, and you see, like, wow this was training, and I got my ass kicked. I can't imagine that there's guys still over there right now. Like the reality sinks in. And I've had so many friends, and I've I've talked to uh there's one dude I talked to, he was a prisoner of war in Vietnam, and he was a prisoner of war in Afghanistan. That's the like that's how far out it's separated. And we went through this training where it was this human trafficking training, so we did this together, and he was my sleepmate. So this is after the military. You go in and they throw a so this is after the military was.

Host

Was it a POW in Afghanistan?

SPEAKER_01

Yes. So it it was so we're going through this training. He's 64 years old at the time, and he's my partner in it. And he was like, I see him like freaking out. I'm like, hey man, you all right? He's like, I don't know if I can do this. I'm like, hey, it's totally like these are these are really good dudes. Like, you know, it's just like simulated, like they're doing this and zip tying you, and they're just showing you what happens to it. It's a human trafficking, anti-human trafficking course. So you get like submerged into it, and he opens up to me and we're sleeping together because he can't sleep. And I mean, of course, I get that guy sleeping next to me, right? Like, he can't sleep, he's pissing every 30 minutes, he's standing up and like right there, he's peeing. So you're like, I hope spray's not coming on me. But he just talks to me of like, this is what has happened to me in my life. I don't know if I can do this, like it's too real for me. And he told me the story of Vietnam when he was 19 and then prisoner war in Afghanistan. He'd be a fun guy to have on your podcast. Yeah. But it was, yeah, it was wild. So his his story of how Christ saved him was really, really powerful. But he had this he had a story of he had a slash on his back from Afghanistan. I won't tell too much of a story, but he showed me the scar. He was getting rescued, that's how they got out. And they threw him a belt, had a gun, and and you always wonder stories like this of like what's fabricated, what's not fabricated. So you kind of listen through a little bit skeptical. He's like, Yeah, I'm gonna show you the scar. Because one of the dudes was chasing him and hit him with a machete in the back, and he had this violent scar down his back, like just awful. And I I think once you go through a search school, once you go through that, you just never take for granted your peace ever again. Like going to war and realizing, oh, if our plane crashes, this is what's going on. We have guys down there right now that are captured and they're going through torture. So it teaches you like you've got to help those brothers that are down and sisters that are down.

Host

Kind of, you know, swapping to to the other part of your story. I mean, yeah. I remember you were telling me too when you were kind of 19 years old, you had you know, you were going to a church and you were really wanting to help with the youth group.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

Why youth?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so yeah, uh man, I love that. I was the kid that walked into youth group wanting something that I didn't know what his name was, and his name was Jesus. And I was I wanted to be a part of the solution for the kids like me, those kids that come in with bravado with all these things, and like and nobody's sitting there. And I I tell guys all the time how important it is to say, do you know Jesus? Not do what church do you go to? Not not oh man, like what religion are you? No, like do you know Jesus? Because once you meet him, your entire life will change. And so I just want to be a part of that solution for young kids coming in. And I go to a church in Oklahoma, and they have a vault, you know, like they see my size and they're like, Oh, cool. Can you be a, you know, and I'm in the military, that can you be a security guard for us for our youth group? And I was like, Yeah, sure. So I put a security shirt on, and I'm watching them the back, I'm kind of analyzing, praying through all of them. And that in that church, then is where I meet my wife, and I she was serving to help with the girls and disciple the young high school girls, and we we develop a friendship. And man, when I got saved, I I told the Lord, I will not date until you bring me a wife, which is an absurd request. But I I was terrible at dating, I was terrible with women. I just asked him, please, the first girl that I date, can you make it my wife? I did everything I knew how to do right and God honoring. And we didn't have sex until our wedding night. That's awesome, dude. I didn't even know it was possible, like two weeks, right? And I'm like, God, I want to honor you and structure this. I the most nervous I've ever been in my life was when I called her dad and asked her dad if I could propose to her. I tried to do everything opposite of what I had done in my life and honor her and establish a foundation for a marriage that would succeed and with withstand all the storms of life.

Host

That's awesome. And I kind of I feel like I skipped just from your Navy career, but I think it's important for the listeners to understand. I mean, you found, you know, your relationship with Christ when you were going, you know, through A school and in Pensacola, and then you moved to Oklahoma and you got kind of plugged into a church as you were doing your doing your Navy job. So, you know, we're kind of in the same place. So I just don't want to make that, you know, that that was kind of a choppy, cool, a choppy transition. But how long did you guys date before you got married?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I I think it was nine months total of like sorry, five months of dating, six months of engagement, somewhere in that time frame, and then we got married.

Host

And you married during your kind of last three years, you're on active duty on uh on a pretty specific platform. It's the height of the GWAT, so you're you know, you're deploying. I think you told me it was someone like you were averaged almost 200 days gone. Yeah, well. How did how did you manage marriage, especially a new marriage, your young?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, vulnerability. So that's it's one of the things. So when when I got saved in my barracks room to the time I met my wife, kind of fill that gap in a little bit. I went to a church, and that church, I'm still friends with the pastor, and now his son, who's the pastor of it, I didn't know denominations, I didn't know anything. I just had a crotch rocket and I'd race with my buddy who had a Ducati 998 from Matrix Reloaded. They only made a thousand of them. So we would like race up and down. It was so fun. And then there was a church out the back of it, and I just went to that church and they explained baptism. So that next weekend I got baptized. My first church service, he's explaining what baptism is to new believers. And I'm like, that's me. I want it. So I invite a whole bunch of my friends from the base that were partying with me, and they come out for my baptism, and there's 30, 40, 35, 40 people there, and it was a really cool moment for me. And I start going to church and I ask guys questions that I I didn't know wasn't culturally acceptable for Christian men to talk about. So I I'm I show up to a men's group and I'm like, hey man, so like masturbation. What do you do about masturbation? Like, how many times do you masturbate? What do you think about when you're masturbating?

unknown

Right?

SPEAKER_01

Like, hey, like, uh, but that that's how direct, and I was so curious. I wanted to honor God that I just met, but I've never read the Bible. I don't know. I've been horny since I came out of the womb, right? I mean, like, so this is with my buddies at party, it wasn't an awkward thing to talk about orgasms and sex and masturbation and all these things because we it was a heterosexual friendship between guys. You joke about it, it was part of your your culture. But I I started to ask Christian men that and I'd see their eyes like go down, or they didn't have an answer for me, and it was uncomfortable for them. And you, you know, you're just watching people, you're like, Oh, you're really uncomfortable right now. Like, and I just asked them, like, you don't masturbate, like, come on, man, get out of here. Like, what are you like? So I'd have those conversations, then I'd also start to see other things of like, hey man, when you're really pissed off and you want to fight somebody, like, what do you do? Is it just lifting weights? Do you actually can you get in fights? And like, how does this work? And I called the gray area of the Bible of discipleship. I saw this gap, and I feel like it was the Lord allowing me to see it. But I took the Bible and I read it cover to cover in about four months, and people are like, that's impressive. No, it's not impressive. I literally in the military, when you're young, I didn't have kids or a wife. You're like, you go to training and you work out, you eat, you have nothing else to do. I didn't have a phone with social media. Facebook wasn't even invented yet. So, like, you don't have anything, like you're in your barracks room. I just would read and read and read, and I was so hungry to learn. And I'll never forget there's a moment where I read the book of Joshua and I see these Old Testament warriors, and I told God, You created masculinity. And I remember sitting back in my barracks room of like, you created masculinity, you created testosterone, you created. And I remember sitting there exactly where I was at in my barracks room to say, you created people to be born from an orgasm. That is really cool. Like human creation starts with a male orgasm. That's a good God. Like, that is awesome. So I started to really understand God's heart, and I also started to see like the culture of masculinity in the church I was going to, and I've seen it ever since. Uncomfortable talking about things that God's very comfortable talking about. And I started to realize that when you're not vulnerable with people, genuinely vulnerable, you don't experience the freedom that Christ really has for you. And for me, I just took a deep dive to say, okay, let's press into this. Let's like I want to win the war for purity. What are the weapons of warfare that I have? Like I just came from a partying lifestyle. I don't want to go to church and be that hypocrite and then go out and get high and have sex with girls. I don't want to do that. So I started to dig, and then in that process, I moved to Oklahoma. I see in Oklahoma the culture of masculinity where I'd talk to guys be like, hey man, what because I started to memorize Bible. I'm in the military and we have to memorize stuff all the time. So I start memorizing. I I read King David wrote in Psalm 118, How does a man keep his way, keep his heart pure by memorizing and putting your word in his heart? So I took it really literal. I was like, cool, I'm just gonna memorize parts of scripture. So I started memorizing verses, then I started memorizing chapters, and I talked to you guys like, hey, what are you memorizing right now?

Host

Yes, and their response, they're like, I'll tell you all the football scores and and who won this game and who was who who won this football game in 1989.

SPEAKER_01

That's it, especially in in Oklahoma, Texas, because I'm from Colorado where it's Bronk, Denver Broncos football, because like CU kind of sucked, and CSU kind of sucked. Our c our college atmosphere, it's all pro in atmosphere in Colorado. Most of the time, it was way before Deion Sanders took over as as head coach, but uh most of the time that's how it was. Well, you go to Oklahoma, and these guys are just telling you all stats about every coach that's ever been for you is a religion in Oklahoma, it's a religion, and it's crazy. So you see that, and it's like, wait, you know all those stats, but you're telling me you can't memorize scripture? Well, God's word says that if you memorize his word and you put it in his heart, then you can actually win the war with purity. So do you just win the war with purity by watching sports center? And yeah, I just ask him, like, I'm calling you on this BS. Like, you're you're telling me you don't think about masturbating to other women, or like you're not tempted by pornography. I got first addicted to pornography with dial up internet. So if you called my damn house when I was looking at it, and it would disconnect the thing, and I'm downloading an image, right? That's when I got introduced to pornography. Now you can stream stuff on your phone and you're gonna tell me these guys that have been married for 10 years and having sex with the same woman, you're not interested or tempted by sex with another woman that's not your like get out of here. I'm not dealing with that. Why why do you think the church and I think it's still a problem. Why do you think they lack that conversation? Vulnerability. I think people are just afraid to be vulnerable and and expose themselves. And I feel like the first sin, right? In the Garden of Adam and the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve, they sinned and hid themselves. And it's it's they felt shame and hid themselves. And I think guys, and well, sorry, I know at this point in my life, I've prayed over a man that was 92 years old with a porn addiction. I've I've prayed through with hundreds of men in my life, guys that have been hiding hurt and sexual trauma that happened when they were kids and they've had porn addictions for 30 years, they've never talked to anybody about for 10 years, for 15 years. I think it's the the awareness of vulnerability equaling freedom. And I love Jocko says discipline equals freedom. But Jocko, I'm so sorry. It doesn't equal freedom. Discipline can equal you live a life like, man, go get them, David Goggins. But that could be what discipline could equal in your life if you don't have vulnerability and you know who you are. So I tell guys all the time, I love discipline, but that doesn't equal freedom. Vulnerability is the only thing in your life when you're really vulnerable that can equal freedom. Because vulnerability, and you if you're just discipline without vulnerability, it's you become a masochist. Like, cool. I just did a marathon. Cool, what's the next one, man? We talked about this last night. When you see those guys start to do like the ultras, and I'm training for a 240. A lot of the times from uh in the veteran community and just the masculine culture, you're you're you're masking something. You're taking you running from demons, dude. You're running from demons because this pain is you're replacing, you're thinking this pain can get healed by this pain. It doesn't happen. You need to just like relinquish the pain, and it needs to be over to God. And when you when you sit there in vulnerability and say, God, and you cry with him.

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Host

You know, that's a really unique thing you bring up because you know, I'm still kind of I'm not new in my faith. I I grew up in the church, but

(Cont.) Navy Veteran Opens Up About Depression, Faith & Hollywood | Cody Bobay

Host

I ran from it from a long time. And, you know, one of the things I've I've tried to really do in this last, especially this past year, was just be vulnerable and be bold.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

And I find that the more I talk about, you know, God, Christ, my relationship with people, it it really, and it to your point, to be vulnerable, right? To tell people my faults and what I failed at, what I'm going through. Man, it really does open that conversation where people reciprocate. Yeah. Then you can have a really meaningful. I I I'm really guilty in the fact that I hate having BS conversations about the weather or I'd rather talk about something that matters or that's important or something that's really going on in your life or my life or whatever. And I and you know, just to to to back up what you said, you know, I find that the more I'm vulnerable with with with other men, especially, it just creates such a deeper connection and a deeper conversation. But it is uncomfortable sometimes. It was uncomfortable when I first doing it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And that's good. Like we have a whole culture that preaches discipline equals uncomfort and like then equals freedom, right? So get out of your comfort zone. And and I'm a fan, like Muhammad Ali said that you know, he doesn't start counting his reps until he hits failure. And like, you know, all those things of like, that's so cool when you're talking about working out or cold plunging or sauna therapy. And I love that. But it also applies to the vulnerability in relationships. Like, practice being uncomfortable with that. Practice telling another guy how you're doing. If you're struggling, when sorry, when you start to struggle with anxiety, with fear, with worry, with depression, with finances, practice being uncomfortable with that because that's where real transformation comes from, is that vulnerability.

Host

This is gonna be an interesting point of the conversation, but it's a it's it's one that I'm I'm seriously curious to talk about. Yeah, you're you're an extremely healthy fit dude, not at your level, but I I try to work out and eat healthy and live a healthy life. You know, there was a study, Ken Ferraro did a study in 2006. I think he I think it was out of Yale. America's becoming a feeding ground for gluttony and obesity, and the Christian church is part of that problem. You know, when you discovered that, how did that hit you and and and you know, what was your thought process on that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So I I served in Oklahoma City after the military, after a lot, under uh the guy that was the district attorney during the Timothy McVeigh hearing and that whole process, and he said something that I'll never forget. He said, Whoever brings the solution, his God gets praised. And I love that so much. And it's it's because you know, anybody that's done law enforcement, military, or it any high level corporate operation or just life, like nobody wants to hear problems. Like, awesome, you brought me a problem. Did you bring me a solution or options for a solution? Then quit whining about the problem and go. Like, I don't need somebody that I work with or works for me to bring me another problem. I've got a laundry list of my own problems that I'm solving. But if you can say, hey, here's a problem and here's a solution, fantastic. Well when I read that from Ken Ferraro the first time and I saw that, I said, I said, no, the Christian church should be the solution. Like we should be the solution to the entire world problems that are happening. Why are we the problem with unhealthy living? And I started to deep dive to say there's the problem. How can I bring the solution?

Host

Why why do you think that that was such a problem in the Christian church?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so we like to justify sin. I mean the root of it is we like to justify sin. And uh Isaiah 68 is one of my favorites. Isaiah has a vision in the time of King Uzziah which I love Isaiah chapter 6 and you he sees the holiness of God and these massive angels flying around God and worshiping him as his holiness. He falls on his face and he's like I am such a sinful man. That should be the response of all of us throughout our lives of we see God's holiness, we feel that and the only reason we can talk to him is because the righteousness of what Jesus did for us on the cross and our faith in that but too many men justify their sins. So it's it's a high eating fast food is a high to your brain eating sugar and it's a high that I love. I love it. I tell men like if you're eating healthy like I hear these guys like Jordan Peterson like yeah I only eat beef once a day I'm like bro there's a different way to live life like you've never had like like you don't have a donut ever they're good. Like they're pizza like Jerry Seinfeld talks about there's there's pizza happy come on man if you don't have pizza with your kids and see that and I think so many men are afraid to be just genuinely honest and authentic they mask it with things and oh man I'm stressed and so what happens I've studied the human body so much in my life what happens is your cortisol and you're you're stressed and you're you have an overoptimistic thought process of who you can become and the day goes on it's like oh I'm gonna have a yogurt for breakfast or I'm gonna fast for breakfast because everybody loves to intermittent fast. I tell everybody all the time don't intermittent fast during the easiest meal of the day just eat breakfast and lunch then fast during the hardest part of the day. But people don't like that answer because it's a 24 hour system with your body it doesn't really matter as long as you're under a caloric or at a caloric goal with your macronutrients. Oh but I intermittent fast and it's the best no it's not no your 24 hour system. Like you can't cheat that system so I'm not a fan of all the BS stuff that happens with online of like oh I'm tougher because I only eat once a day. It's like no you're not but here here's the problem that I see is that men go in and it's in university they call it the what the hell effect. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of it but it's a fascinating thing. When you go throughout your day and you're overly optimistic when you wake up in the morning thinking oh that's great you're you know you you you've served the police force I'm not sure how much you talk about on here but nobody wants to work the morning shift. That's boring. Like why? Because the crime doesn't happen in the morning because people wake up and they feel like they have an overly optimistic self of like I can be a good person today. Well then they have caffeine coffee I'm gonna have a salad for lunch then they go into two o'clock and two o'clock is the what the hell effect. Psychologically it's broken down to I'm gonna lower my defenses just a little bit what the hell it's just a piece of chocolate. Ah what the hell it's just a what the hell it's just like looking at hot girls on Instagram for a little bit while I'm taking a poop on my break at work like I'm not I'm not beating off the bathroom I'm just looking at oh man she's nice. What the hell like it was just a little bit well your brain responds to that trigger as ooh you just fed the beast so the two wolf philosophy you just fed the wrong wolf inside of you. Well the thing with that wolf and the Bible talks about this you feed that monster that monster once more and it's not satiated. So psychologically it's called what the hell effect so you go into the day and that wolf gets hungrier and then you start to drive home and you see a fast food place that you love. Ah what the hell it's good oh I'll start on Monday ah what the hell I'll get the I'll supersize that thing. You get home and your kids are messing around and you're you're oh I'm so irritated. I just want time to myself well now you're high and you can't think rationally your brain's out of control and you need another hit because that hit of fast food only lasted you an hour and a half hour you need another hit to be emotionally stable or so you think and then you get some ice cream and then you get a bowl of MMs and then you're you're like man I hope I get to have sex with my wife tonight and she has a headache and she goes to bed and you're like oh my gosh I need another high and then you're sitting there and your wife's in bed and your kids are in bed and you're like oh man I was looking at those girls today in the bathroom and they looked really good. Well what if I opened up only or what if I opened up hub and just like got whatever I wanted your brain's so out of place at that point. And I started to see it from a tactical approach of studying the work of the enemy on the masculine soul. If I was the enemy I'd attack you with a fork instead of a nuclear bomb. And that's what he does. And I started to realize it with obesity with a lazy lifestyle with addictions. I've never met with one dude that was like oh yeah I woke up this morning and out of nowhere just decided to have sex with another girl at lunch and had an affair on my wife and ruined 20 years of marriage. I've never met with that guy. It's that slow fork size bites of letting your guard down letting your guard down justifying the sin and that's what I found obesity is and sugar is the most acceptable high on this planet especially in the Christian church. Dude what a what a great synopsis that was that was very eye-opening before we kind of go into your calling I do kind of want to close out your time in the military yeah what was the decision point where you're like hey man I'm I'm gonna go on to the next thing yeah great question a lot of testosterone thank god a lot of just courage and being young but ever since I started to see the problem I knew I was a part of the solution and and when you're talking about the problem you're talking about like some of the things that you saw wrong in the Christian church. Yep yeah with the problem with masculinity and then I started to see the problem with obesity and a whole bunch of fat lazy dudes that I love that I'm like you should be a warrior I'm on this planet to help wake you up into who you are actually created to be not some fat lazy dude that's beating his meat every night looking or multiple times a day looking at pornography. Like you are created for more than that. So my calling wasn't out of frustration with any man it was to say I'm gonna wake you up into the warrior that God created you to be so that was tested when I was getting out of the military because I had a really successful military career had incredible opportunity to be to continue with that signing bonus and I knew that God was calling me out of it. And I told people like I'm gonna they're like hey Bobe what are you gonna do when you get out like I'm gonna write books and speak to the church around the world I'm gonna inspire them to be who they're created to be and they're like okay cool so what's your plan to make money yeah that's my plan hey Bobe what what book have you written? Never written a book cool what what degree do you have? Oh I'm just about to finish my associate's degree in electronics because that's what I got during the like you get all those credits in the military like electronics huh and you're gonna write a book and these dudes loved me they were my friends saying what the hell are you thinking you have a wife and you're gonna go fall on your face this world is not for just the haphazardly hopeful type person. You stay in well and you got a a very high level security clearance I'm sure you were gonna get offered a bonus to reenlist yeah a bonus and I could have worked with a lot of companies with that security clearance and got paid incredible money deployed like we you know I mean the contract work you get picked up contract you could go but I knew what I wanted to do and I just I I find myself on flights and I was drawing on coffee cups of like how I wanted to write books and like I was visualizing it and seeing myself doing that speaking to people and thank god I had the courage to do it and and stepped out of the military got got out of the military went through the process and I was like cool I'm really fit and I I was a command fitness leader at our in the Navy they have collateral duties that you have so you're deployed and then also as an air crewman you're working in the shop when you're back but then you have to have a collateral duty to help with your career so I I was over fitness so I realized that was part of the solution I wanted to help with and I got out ended up getting a really great job in that transition point had a lot of faith and went up against people with degrees and I was on one interview my my medical insurance literally kicked over kicked off in the military and the the Friday before kicked on with my corporate job that was impossible. I was going up against guys with master's degrees and I remember this guy he was like all right so why are you the candidate we should select for this and just with balls of steel I was like a lot of these guys know how to study it in theory. I know how to execute it and I know how to actually get results from everything that you're going for. And he's like okay and I just remember thinking like yeah I don't have a master's degree but I I've done this I've done this in the United States Navy here are my numbers here getting people in shape from overweight single moms to guys that want to go be special forces command fitness works with all of it. So you're looking for results to get people healthy across all of your corporate locations I can get you results. So he hired me on as a in that wellness job which was a new job and they're like well you're probably gonna fail so we're gonna give you 90 days to hire you on so I'm like oh crap I just went from the golden handcuffs of the military to 90 days and I might make it to that turned into seven years and I transformed their entire program and ended up being the global wellness manager for one of the biggest companies in the country and was over and helped run 14 business units around the world and some of the humongous companies like Fiji Water, Palm Wonderful, owned by the wonderful company and I was on track to if they were going to pave the way to be their a chief wellness officer for them and and just became an expert by working with people and motivating people where they're at to make a change for them and not for me and our programs.

Host

What do you think made you so successful at that fitness and wellness is it's a big thing and it's it's a thing that a lot of people struggle with.

SPEAKER_01

I mean Yeah so the owner of the company asked me this one time and I pray for people. So I'd actually pray for I'd go speak and I'd pray for people before I genuinely loved the people that I wanted to help and I would walk through relationships. I'd build program management systems but I'd pray for them and I love them and I said man if you if you genuinely love people you're gonna figure out how to help those people where they're at because we had companies that were in California and there were people counting almonds and like literally looking at conveyor belts pulling out bad almonds and they did that for 18 years. So you're talking about ergonomics helping that person standing all day and that's what they've done eight hours a day for 18 years of just like staring at the conveyor belt how do you motivate that person to increase their biometrics on the health screening so you can have an ROI on your wellness program for your insurance plan. What are they working for? You find out like what motivates them and some people it's health like you you talk to some of the high performing like I worked with the C level executives and they want to be the best of the best the best I'd talk with them and like what motivates you I'd be like hey man you ready some of our CEOs I'm like you ready to lose some of that belly fat? Stop running so much like what I was like hey man you you like love handles they'd be like who are you talking to and I'm like come on man like you you like having love handles like you work out you you they these a lot of the C level guys run marathons all the time and I'm like you're actually hurting your body more than you're helping your body like you're you're inducing so much stress you can eat that chicken breast and your body's in such a state of stress you're gonna store more as energy reserve because you're constantly in a heightened state of cortisol and you're depleting everything else. So your body's really smart. So I'm like, hey man so give up your like going to the gym and running for two hours a day and lift weights for 30 minutes and do 20 minutes of steady state cardio. And these guys like no way like this is this is way before all the fads now out and you transform somebody's life based on finding what motivates them and what motivates the lady that's counting the almonds and seeing that for her it was money for her family. So create a program that incentivizes based on money. And the island of Fiji they had a chief that you had to get is fascinating. So if you you can mandate it out in Fiji. But it was really an interesting problem. But if you find like oh if you're going to work for money for your family and you need this and it's hand to mouth if I provide you and you do a good job on your your health and you get a $250 Amazon gift card every time you do a good job and that's what motivates you that's awesome. But I but I found it's it's about finding what motivates that person and the the frustrating thing to me was the church should have the same motivation. And they weren't because Jesus quoted something from Deuteronomy chapter six when these guys are like tell us the best commandment of all the 613 in the Old Testament tell us the top one like if you are the son of God educate us son of God and he gives them an answer that's fascinating. He's like well from Deuteronomy chapter six and four five six love the Lord your God with all your heart heart soul mind and strength and the second one is like it love your neighbors yourself. These guys were perplexed and I think the church still is perplexed today. You walk into churches and they have curriculums and they have all these things what is it to be a Christian and all it's really simple. Everything you have your brain your physical heart your muscular skeletal system your central nervous system your spiritual life your deep meditational thought life your emotional system love God with all of that and when you're doing that love people like you want to be treated you talk about changing the world and I started to see like that's the solution that's the motivation that changes the entire world if the church takes what Jesus said seriously but too many people get caught on oh I'm obeying commandment 298 and 362 and man I'm the best at 411. That commandment is my favorite like nobody can compare to me. That's my nine iron shot like shut up and like you have to love God with everything you have. So then I started to see it of like what man in here would take their brain and plug in the hippocampus of their brain the hippocampus of their brain and put it on a projector so every man in the room can watch what you've thought about for the last 48 hours. I've never seen a man say oh me I'm not no why because it's so hard to love God with all of your mind it's almost impossible I think it is impossible without God but sometimes I'll I'll be driving down the road and worshiping God and thinking about things, praying for somebody somebody cuts me off and I'm like beep beep you know like all these things like I'd love to just take you out and oh God I'm so sorry. That way you know like immediately I'm pulled out of the person I want to be because my brain is lusting for something else. And that's the if if the Christian church took seriously everything that you eat might not go to your hips, but it always goes to your brain. If you stewarded your brain your physical heart your muscular skeletal system your endocrine system your central nervous system your emotional state your mental state and your spiritual straight if you steward if you stop focusing on everything else in the world who's president all these things that's great focus like stop focus like you can't let me tell you from my background in the military you can't control any of that other than voting but I don't even know if that controls anything um but if you can that's a whole nother podcast that's a whole but it's a whole other but if you can control that and then you can do your best from that state of humility to love your neighbor as yourself and look for their needs will change the world.

Host

I love that man something that you and I had talked about that I I thought was interesting it's a an interesting part of the conversation when you got out and decided you were you know going to start speaking I know you were working but you were you were still trying to get into the church to motivate men. Yeah you had a pastor who basically said that you would never be able to speak to anybody without going to seminary yeah talk to me about that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah oh I'd love to say his name but I won't I I feel like there's a lot of people that just have had too much time pass since they've got punched in the face by another man. And they talk like they're the boss of the internet champions and they forget what it is to sit with a real man and talk to a man. And this guy so there's a story in the Bible that I love when King David wants to go fight Goliath he was ready for it. I could I wrote a whole book on this called Rock Kazakh. It's the ancient Hebrew war cry of the mighty men and David had no doubt where he was even going to put Goliath's head he knew where he was going to put Goliath's head David knew the outcome of that battle and he goes to King Saul he what he's bringing food to his brothers he walks over the hill and the Bible says and he hears Goliath that's badass. Like oh I heard you talking shit to my boys wrong move buddy come on like this is this dude comes over that hill hears Goliath and he goes and he's like hey what's the man get that gets that kills him that was David's first question which I love what's the man get that kills him God is a God that loves to reward courageous men. So never forget for every man listening that that's the first question David asked. And what was the answer is great. You get a really hot girl that's also the king's daughter she's gonna be royalty and never pay taxes again. Bro men I am in come on that's better than the sheep I'm hanging out with right like the shepherd that's overlooked by his family. So he walks up to King Saul and what does King Saul do? And this is what this is why I'm telling a story because this is what this guy tried to do to me. King Saul's like take my armor and put it on you and we have a lot of men today that have listened to that and they're living in the armor that a good intentioned I think a well-intentioned person is trying to equip them with for a battle that God has destined them to fight. And the battle God destined you to fight doesn't take somebody else's armor. And no matter how much it's been battle tested it takes the armor that you have been given in your life that you're comfortable with that you know is battle tested for you. And David put that armor on and it wasn't like David was like oh this is too big for me I'm just a wee little kid. No he's like this hasn't been tested. I haven't killed in this I haven't fought hey in my with my weapons I've killed a lion and I've killed a bear what you've been around some pretty badass dudes. What guy could say that I've killed a lion with my bare hands and a bear with a slingshot. What like that dude is legendary so he's like no hasn't been tested and what does David do he goes and changes history with that fight like that that's a fight that was heard around the world and never forgotten in his time I go out to lunch with a pastor and tell him my hopes and dreams and I do not have a degree yet and I haven't even started college at this point. And I say this is what I want to do and he takes King Saul's armor and he's like well you'll never do that if you don't go to seminary. You can't speak on stages unless you go to Bible school.

Host

You got to do this this and this and I left that meeting with King Saul's armor hanging on me feeling so deflated and fatigued and thinking this is impossible and then I took that armor off and said no it's not you know and I don't understand that and maybe this is a an issue that I have with you know the the church you look at the 12 disciples yeah who preached all over the world all over the world none of them went to seminary dude when did when did that become the you have to go to college and you know what when did this thing become such a rite of passage? I I don't yeah I don't understand it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah it's it's the sinful nature. So I read one of my favorite biographers is Eric Metaxis and I love any book that he writes like he's so magnificent with writing somebody's story. He's very similar to you in a podcast and I want people to know when when you have this podcast and just like a pause in this conversation because I want to come back to Eric Metaxis there's a Patreon that's launching that is this podcast and I want every man to sign up for it because for you guys watching this the work that Asher puts in is I've spoken professionally for 10 years but on podcasts some of the biggest one in ones in Christianity I've never seen anybody do work like what you do. Your research your development the time you put into this and I think every man listening should support at whatever level this podcast to make sure you continue telling stories and I think this should be the biggest podcast in the world because the level you put into it. So I want you to know that of just as you as a guy that's becoming your friend but a fan of your work and admirer. Thanks bro So you're welcome. And I I mean it from the bottom of my heart. I I want to see you win in every sense of the word because you put in you do what Eric Metaxis does when he writes a biography. He lives it. He uh is fully immersed in it. And I feel like every time I watch one of your podcasts, it's you're fully immersed in that person. When when I got here yesterday, like I'm dealing with allergies, and you're like, so anybody hearing this is not my my my typical voice is a little bit higher, a little bit more annoying, but I sound a little more masculine with the the stuffed up nose. But uh you got to know me. You accepted me into your home, you studied me, uh 18 pages of research that you did on my life, and I was blown away and honored. And Eric Metaxis did that for Mart for everybody he writes from. And I'm a big history buff, and I love history and I love reading and learning. And he wrote that for Martin Luther with the Protestant Reformation. So to answer that question, long form what I just the route I just took us on, it was a problem with the Catholic Church, with cat which Catholic just was the only Christian church on the planet at the time. There wasn't over 2,000 denominations at that time. There was the Catholic Church, and and why did Martin Luther, I know the answer is rhetorical, why did Martin Luther write his 95-page thesis, put it on the door on October 31st when he went through that process because he was sick and tired of that same thing. Elitists thinking they had the right answer, and the common men couldn't have what they knew. Martin Luther's like, that is not the same Bible we're reading. These people need to be able to read and experience God like we do as the priests though in the monasteries as everybody else, and he gave his life for that reformation. And and I still love, like we'll tell a story later about a Catholic priest that like saved my life that I believe was an angel. I love, I love any any church institution that is based on a relationship with Jesus and becoming more like Jesus. I love it. I don't care what denomination you are. If you don't pray in tongues, if you do pray in tongues, if you dance in the aisle, if you don't dance in the aisle, man, if you love Jesus, you want to be more like him. I love it. But what what happens so many times is good intention. I think this pastor started with good intentions. He eventually became a thorn in my side that I couldn't stand, but eventually God was successful and showed his victory through my life and shut this dude up. But he was taking his armor, putting it on me, and saying, I had to do his way to be successful. And that'd be like telling Peter, hey, I'm gonna call you and when Jesus called Peter and Andrew together. But first you got to go back through the training. And it's gonna take you three years. Well, then you just miss the opportunity to walk with Jesus because the next three years were his final three years on this planet. And I think so many guys say, I'm going to delay my obedience to go do something that I believe will equip me for this. And God's saying, No, no, no, I want you to follow me right where you're at. All the skill sets you have. And that's what I found is my favorite thing about working with men and seeing men. And that's what you do with this podcast is every man's story matters. No matter if you were whatever branch you served in in the military, if you did, if you didn't serve in the military, like people will me and I love I have so many friends that were uh elite special forces operators to air crewmen, to working as a mechanic on a ship. Your story matters and your life matters. And when you start to really realize that and unlock that, there's a whole bunch of warriors that are just waiting to be invited into the arena as a gladiator. And those dudes, when they come into that arena as a gladiator, will kick ass. And all they have to know is you're invited in. And you don't have to have all those degrees and acumen. Like, dude, you have what it takes. Let's go. Like, let's go. Join the tribe, brother. Join the tribe. Like, let's let's live life and die with honor, and let's do what Tecumseh said. Like, let's have a cool song when the hero goes home. Let's have that. But I feel like a lot of men think my story doesn't matter, my story's too dark, or my no, no, your story matters. And and that's where real change across the world happens when men start to realize, oh, my story does matter. And I don't have to lie and inflate it. I don't have to. My story, just as it is, matters, and I can help people where I'm at.

Host

It's that human aspect, man. You know, it's where this, you know, we've separated ourselves and all these different classes, and I mean, even in the military culture, right? If you didn't do this, you're not enough. And you know, oh, you only did that. But it's like, dude, when you look at the military, I mean, only one percent of us answered the call, right? One percent of the population of the US joins the military. So it's like, who cares what you did? You still did the call. I mean, did some guys do more? Yeah, but did you do what you could? Yeah, man. I mean, yeah, I love that. I love that response you gave. That I mean, that speaks to everybody. We're gonna we're gonna dive into Solcon. I'm super excited uh to talk about this before we do it. Let's take a break real quick.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, yep.

Host

So this is kind of I'm I'm really excited to talk about this point, is it because this is actually how I found you. Cool. Talk to me about writing your SoulCon challenge. I mean, it took you over five and a half years. I really want to dive into this. Yeah, so okay, cool.

SPEAKER_01

So I yeah, the the the biggest thing for me was I I started speaking. I wanted to speak to the Christian church about optimal health and then help the solution like with the masculine soul. So I started to go through my undergraduate program from a Christian university and in business and went all the way through and got a graduate degree eventually in from that same university in business leadership. And I started to speak to churches and mixed audiences with men and women, and I was I was young in this, and I started to see, oh, there's a big response here happening with my message. And I I started to get on like my first big stage was 2,400 people, and I was speaking with a keynote, and I started to look out, and I felt like I didn't have the resource I needed to be able to provide the solution for what I was looking at. I was like, the problems started to amplify. And I say this all the time, and I I want guys to really hear it. I believe in a God and I've seen miracles in front of me. I believe God does miracles all the time, and I think he'd do more if we had faith in him to move. I don't think, from what I've seen, God does miracles in lazy hearts. Like, I think if the miracle you're wanting is because you're too lazy to apply the discipline that he's given you. I've never seen God do that. And I remember I'd I'd I'd I'd speak and have people come forward for prayer, and I'd see these like dudes saying, Can you pray for me to be more disciplined? And I and I'd ask them eye to eye, like, you've been given discipline. Second Timothy 1.7 says, For you haven't been given given a spirit of fear, but a power, love, and a self-disciplined mind. Why aren't you using it? So I'm gonna pray for you to use the discipline you have, but I'm not gonna pray that God magically gives you something you already have. And I saw that guys wanted the microwave system for a long-term relationship God wants to have with you through the joy of suffering. And I started to see men that were going to church that maybe were in the military, are in the military, or just never been in the military, didn't know that Christianity and suffering produces good fruit. I was like, man, some of the best relationships I have, I still have. So when I was going through SEER school, and like there's a final night where you all get together before you go into the the POW training part of it, you get asleep together, and I found the fattest dude in there. And I didn't know him at the time. But I was like, I literally was like, you are spooning with me tonight. We laughed, and oh my god, I literally was like, Come here, and I man, I was so warm. And he ended up being an aircraft commander at my squadron, and we just became like such good friends from that. But times of suffering produce camaraderie, and camaraderie and experienced suffering and shared suffering produces meaningful relationships. And I started to realize that that was a thing that was missing inside of the Christian church. Men, like a great victory for a man is showing up to overeat with biscuits and bacon and gravy and thinking that another man teaching them the Bible was them stepping on the battlefield as a gladiator. Right? And it's like, hey man, like I I actually like I I want to do stuff with you. Like, hey man, you want to go shoot? You want to go to a gun range? Yes, I want to go to a gun range with you. Like, hey man, do you do you want to go watch John Wick with me? Yes, I want to be there. Like, let's go, we'll get some popcorn. I like milk duds, uh, I like a diet soda, and let's go watch John Wick and watch him kill every bad guy in the way. Hey man, you want to come to this men's Bible study with me where a guy tells you what you're doing wrong in your life, but they feed you and give you good coffee, and then they pray and they give you no real system on how to walk through any of the struggles that you have. No, I don't want to go to that. I don't want somebody telling me what I'm doing wrong in my life with without giving like, oh, there's a problem. No shit, I have a problem. What are you gonna do about it? Like, don't look at pornography. Like, I remember sitting in so many men's conferences hearing these guys be like talking about pornography, like if you do that, like it and I it's bad, it's terrible. But if you just talk about the problem and escalate to where you're just like, no, it's so bad, but you don't talk about the realistic side of like, whoa, so you're you're telling me you don't masturbate ever? Come on, man. Like, like, let's actually get to the brass tacks of this and be vulnerable to say, if you're a heterosexual male, and that's fine. I have a lot of amazing guy friends that struggle with homosexuality tendencies and things they've been through as child, children. If Jesus was tempted by sin, you will be tempted with sin. And I've known men long enough to where I've never met a man that hasn't sinned in their life. So I I just saw I had to be a part of that solution to say, okay, well, talking to dudes about masturbation and what they're thinking about is a little aggressive for me. Like, you know, like, hey man, let's have coffee and go talk about your masturbation habits. I gotta wash my hands, I gotta relace my shoes and I can't make it, bro. But if you go and build a relationship, like let's go see a movie together, you know, a lot of Christian dudes are like, oh, you wanna like hang out? Like actually like build a relationship with me? Hey man, where do you work out? Like, let's let's work out together. You wanna go for a run? Like, let's meet up and go for a run together. And I started realized that once men see that a relationship with God isn't a structured thing where what Martin Luther stood against of one guy telling you about the Bible and then you hoping you can attain to that. I love I love being taught the Bible. I love it. I but I love the military in training. I loved it. I had a question one time, and one of my favorite guys, he he he now reads my books. Master Chief Waxenfelter. He's one of my favorite dudes on the planet. Well, I was studying and studying and studying, and I was getting ready to go to war. And he's like, hey man, you can study all you want and you're really smart, but until you go, you'll never understand it. I was like, oh, that was the wisest thing. And we have so many guys that go into church that are living on the sidelines listening to the gladiators, thinking, I've done this right, so listen to me, because it feels good when you're that dude. I've been that dude and like in a prideful, sinful place, me talking, and guys praise you, and it feels good, but it's meaningless. We need guys that can go into church and say, I need you to come into the arena with me and fight with me. The fishermen, the you know, the mechanics, the the guys that are dealing with whatever addiction they're dealing with. Come into this, you're gonna experience the freedom Christ has for you, and then we're gonna fight together. And that's what I saw with SoulCon. So it took me five and a half years to perfect a program, and I perfect is the word that I want to use, but I want to clarify that word. The process of perfection takes a lifetime. So I'm constantly going through that. And it's what Lombardi said that perfection is unattainable, but it's in the pursuit of perfection that we obtain excellence. And the process of perfection, I've perfected that and I still do, is how can I create a curriculum that guys go through that induces suffering and produces long-term lasting camaraderie that will endure through the pain of really difficult things that life, the real fights life throws our way. That's why it took me so long to write it. And it's 240 pages. The first part of it is nonfiction, where I teach you about, I talk to guys. I'm not educating you as a man. I'm laying the understanding of war, and then I'm sending you to war. Hey, this is the war you're going to fight. These are the weapons of mass destruction. Satan uses a fork. Jesus, a cross. Jesus says, pick up your cross daily and follow me. Now, I want guys to understand the context of that. He's talking, that's Luke chapter 9, 23. He's talking to guys that have no idea what he's talking about. Literally, later in the synoptic gospels, these guys come to him and they're like, hey man, oh, the Sons of Thunder. They have their mom go ask Jesus if they can sit on his right hand when he establishes his rule on this earth. They think he's gonna be King David and they're gonna be wealthy and powerful and have royalty. They don't understand that he's gonna die on that cross, get brutally murdered on that cross, and that cross is gonna be a sign of victory to all of us who believe. They have no idea. So he's like, hey, pick up your cross daily and follow me. Now, these are people that are going on vacations, walking on vacations with their family, seeing people asphyxiate from the Roman government on crosses because they'd put them on passageways of traffic to show obey the Roman law, or you're gonna end up like these guys. So you have your kids and you're seeing people asphyxiate, bleed out, and die on crosses to remind you to obey the law. That's what these people knew of the crosses. So when he says that, pick up your cross, daily, and follow me. So I lay out the foundation work, I lay out these four fundamentals of healthy living. I don't think healthy living is that difficult. Like, you don't have to eat one thing of beef a day. You don't have to be a carnivore. You like you have to be in control of your appetite. That's what it is. Like, if you need to lose weight, eat less and move more. It's really simple. The execution of it is where you run into human nature and all of your baggage and all of your history, and it takes that motivation for you in your life. So I wrote that, and then I wrote this fictional experience. Once you go to war in the book, it's a six-week special forces training camp. Because I wrote the book once once you go into that process of the six weeks, it's a fictional experience, like you're walking into kind of like a video game experience where you're watching a movie, but you're the first person in that, like when you play Call of Duty, like that's your guy, but you don't ever see your face unless it's through somebody else. So you're reading this as that guy going through this fictional training center. If God's kingdom had a special forces training or selection school, could you make it? So it's six weeks of you go to this training camp, you meet these other guys, and there's practical challenges in your life. So you start the program, there's six weeks of every week has a theme. The first week you have to do a test in. And it's not reciting a prayer in front of your small group, it's a test in of running a 5K, doing push-ups and sit-ups. And if you guys can't run, they do the elliptical. If they can't run, they swim. It's not about a certain physical metric, it's about pushing yourself outside of your comfort zone and being the best you can be. And in that, every day you wake up, there's you get on your knees and you pray out loud. You pray the Lord's prayer. Really simple prayer. You do push-ups before you leave the leave the house, your mind, your body. You are a servant to what I'm accomplishing. I'm not a servant to what you lust for. So, really simple, practical way. So I wrote this whole thing, like there's a hell week in it. It's so cool. Of like, and I've had some of the most elite two guys that led Delta Delta have been through my book, and one of them was like, I've been through some of the toughest training the military could give me. I didn't think this was going to be anything difficult. And he said, until I got to your hell week. And he said, like, doing everything that honors God, not having sugar, pushing yourself to the max in your body, soul, and spirit. He said it's the hardest thing, being vulnerable with men. It's the hardest thing I've ever done. But he experienced freedom from alcoholism with that and PTSD, and then he started to go get help. It was really a cool process. But the whole book is practical ways to induce suffering in your life where you're at, to produce from that camaraderie, because I found out it's a lot easier for guys to talk about their struggles with their finances, the debt, the gambling, the addictions, the pornography, the lust. If they can first laugh about how hard that 5k was. Like, oh man, those push-ups suck, huh? Yeah, it's uh you know what else sucks, man? I'm going through something. Can you pray for me? So I I wrote that and it took me five and a half years to perfect it. There's there's a lot of there, I beta test a lot of it, take groups through to say like what worked, what didn't work. I wanted by the time it released to say that's my best foot forward, and if a guide reads it, it will change their life. And I got to that point.

Host

What do you think it was, and why do you think it took so long? Or you know, that was it the refinement?

SPEAKER_01

What yeah, it was it was it was all it was all of it. The refinement was the process, it was it was learning um what I wanted guys to celebrate in. It's not about physical achievements. Because I don't care. Like, honestly, like you and I know this. If somebody comes to me like, dude, I I just ran a marathon and whatever and said cool, that's awesome. But I don't like how how do you love your wife? How do you honor your kids? What do your kids say about you? Cool about your physical feats. I used to think that was awesome. Like, yeah, I can crush pull-ups, I can beat most guys at a pull-up contest. Means nothing to me. And like awesome, man. You run a 240-mile race. Cool. I don't like if you're just a shit bag as a human being, awesome. You need to get help mentally. Like you're running from demons, you need to fight. And I know that's not a popular way to view it, but I think it's the most freeing way to to process through life is just addressing some of these things head on. So yeah, it took me a long time to to write to get it to where it was formatted properly, digestible, and challenging to men that were 400 pounds, to some of the most elite guys in the world.

Host

Rick Thompson wrote wrote the forward.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

He said, Your flesh is an out-of-control desire for what's good. Unpack that philosophy.

SPEAKER_01

It's one of my favorite understandings of I love Rick. He's a pastor at Council Road Baptist Church in Oklahoma City. Brilliant mind. He's kind of a modern-day C.S. Lewis. So the fact that he wrote the forward and like really helped propel me into this and kind of backed me was really meaningful and still is. But he talked about the flesh because Paul talks about a war going on inside of you, and every man knows whether you're walking with God or you're not walking with God, you know there's a war raging inside of you. And it just waging constantly, but it's constantly just raging. And when you understand what that is and what your flesh is, you start to understand, oh, this is winnable. But he he talks all the time of like sex is good, but an out-of-control desire for sex is your flesh, and that will destroy your life. Alcohol, like that was Jesus' first miracle. He's at a party, and at the time when you bring out the worst wine, because everybody's probably intoxicated and they can't tell the difference between the quality of wine, his first miracle is compassion at people that didn't have enough money, and they were it's embarrassing at that point culturally to run out of wine at a party that you're hosting. So his first miracle is out of compassion, giving them the best wine. So alcohol is not bad, an out-of-control desire for alcohol is bad. And that's what Rick really taught donuts aren't bad. They're great. But if you can't say no to a donut, how are you gonna say no to the temptation with pornography, the temptation with depression and suicidal thoughts? We've got to get men that can actually sweat a little bit more in training so they don't bleed as bad in combat. That's I love his line for that.

Host

Yeah, that's a that's a great, that's a great philosophy. Yeah. The publishing offer, this this was very unique when you told me this and kind of when I looked into this, I thought this was was wild. The second largest Christian publisher wanted your your series, man, your book.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

But you you had to make it, you know, you had to make it for men and women. Yeah. Explain why you said no.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, a lot of courage and ignorance, but I um yeah, I had no idea the battlefield I was stepping onto, but it's I knew the answer was wrong to do what he wanted. And I'll I'll say it the rest of my life. My favorite thing of the Bible is probably what a lot of people think, and I do. I think the book of James is written from J Jesus' brother James, which just put yourself in that household for a second. I have a brother. Can you imagine a brother that never made a mistake? You go to fight him, and he's like, Don't touch me, I'm the son of God. Like, how hard would that be if you're growing up in the house or you're watching that and you're seeing that? So I think the book of James is it depends theologically and historically, but James 4.17 says, if you know the good that you're supposed to do and you don't do it, that's sin. That's a fascinating line to me. That's tricky. And I think if you know the good that you're supposed to do and you don't do it, that's sin. Crazy, right? So that's not psychological weakness. He doesn't say that that's leading to a lesser life. He says, and that's sin, which is a very powerful language to say, what is sin? It's no longer these 613 laws of the Old Testament. If you know that good that you're supposed to do inside your heart and you don't do it, it's sin. And what does sin do? It destroys your life. Bite by bite, it will destroy your life. So I I think it's really important for us to just navigate through when we when we look at the the Christian church and we look at our lives. If we can have a revolution of guys saying, Oh, I need to get my diet in check, cool. If you don't, that's sin. Why are you justifying sin? And I used to travel and speak all the time to churches.

Host

And and and I want to make it clear, sorry to interrupt you. You're not just telling people to become bodybuilders or fitness athletes. It's just to be healthy, man. Which is there's a bit there's a big difference.

SPEAKER_01

To be healthy, yeah. Because I, dude, I literally have had a six-pack my entire marriage. That's not what gets me sex.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

My my wife is like hardly impressed with my physique ever. More dudes are impressed with my physique than my wife. My wife is really impressed with the way I parent and my kids, and I love her, and I am vulnerable with her and talk with her emotionally, spiritually, mentally.

Host

And just an understanding like the diet thing and being healthy, it's definitely a form of discipline. And if you can discipline the way you eat, you can apply that discipline to other areas of your life. Yep. Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt you. I just I wanted to really make that distinction.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, it's really important to say, man, if if you really want to do something, if you want to be used, Paul breaks this down to Timothy in 2 Timothy chapter 2. So Paul's last letter that he wrote was to his friend Timothy, who's leading a massive church. It says second letter to him that we have, and he's writing this to him about being a good soldier for Jesus Christ. And this is where my book, If God's Kingdom had a special forces group, would you would you make it? Would God pick you to serve in this? It comes from 2 Timothy chapter 2, where God says, if you want to be used as a special utensil in God's house, which I read that from the military, be like, if you want a special purpose, that's what drew me into the military. Be someone special. I want to be that someone. What's it take? And Paul's like, if you want to be used as an everyday ordinary tool in God's family, do this. He said it's keeping a pure heart. So if you want to be used as a special utensil in God's family, if you want to be a special forces operator in God's kingdom, keep a pure heart. How do you keep pure heart? You don't sin. Is it possible to live a life that doesn't sin? No, Jesus did it. But as you walk through life, there's a difference as a man longing to know who Christ is and be that person that Christ made you and having habits of sin. I screw up and fail constantly. I never, I never go through my life planning to hide sin. And I think that's the big difference guys need to realize.

Host

Yeah, and I just kind of want to go back to that question. I mean, you know, when you were writing this, you you're, you know, you you weren't super well off. You had young kids. Yeah. And, you know, that this publishing company would have given you, you know, some money, but they wanted you to make your thing for men and women. What why? I mean, I know you, man. I know how much you love your wife and you have a daughter, like you're not anti-women, but you specifically wanted to do this for men. Why was that so important to you that you said no to what would have been a large sum of money at the time?

SPEAKER_01

A large sum of money, yeah. Again, so if you know the good you're supposed to do and you don't do it, it's it's sin. And navigating through that with everything business opportunities, it will lead you into destinations that you're not equipped to fight and battlefields that you're not going to win on. So I had that mentality of like, if you make this for men and women, we'll do it and it will sell. And this guy was great. He was telling me these are what the numbers say, and men don't buy books. When's the last time you went to a Christian bookstore and were like, I'm just gonna shop around and get some trinkets? Like, guys don't do typically they don't do that. Like, I don't buy trinkets. If I'm gonna do something, I'm gonna actually, especially now online, I'm not shopping. I'm I'm sighting in the target and I'm pulling the trigger and I'm buying that item on Amazon and I'm not thinking about it again. You know, like so guys don't go shop, or typically they don't like to shop. I'm in, grab it, and I'm out. And I'm out. I don't want to see every other option. I want to just get what I and I want to move on with my day. Well, he told me the numbers, and he's like, just yeah, you're never gonna make it. Like it will never reach the masses. And he he wrote in his magazine, Charisma Media, he wrote in his magazine that the Solcon challenge and what he learned going through the beta test with Solcon changed his life and helped him fight through a cancer battle. So he wasn't saying it from a place of like, I don't believe in this, but we need to make it for men and women to be able to sell and make this a business opportunity for us. And I said, No. I said, This is a language men need to speak. I love women, but I'm not gonna write a book for them. I'm married and I don't understand my wife still. I I try to figure out that's a whole nother podcast. That's a whole nother podcast. Like, okay, so I want to be that person, but I'm not gonna write a book to them on like what motivates. I can have a discussion with a woman and find out what motivates them, but it's like one-on-one, and we have a conversation. But what motivates men, I'm a man. I get it. So I had to stick to my guns, and I had to, at that time, which was very unpopular to self-publish and honestly pretty stupid. I decided to self-publish it. And that ended up being a battle I wasn't ready to fight.

Host

Yeah, I mean, and and and you were you self-published before. It was like cool to do. Now a lot of people are doing it. I mean, you were yeah, you know, you had to find printers, distribution, you're you know, shipping it from your house.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

Host

What what was what was the struggle of that season in your life?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, there's so many. But just in conversation, if you're like, okay, I wrote a book, it's like being an actor. Oh, what do I know you from? I wrote a book. Back then it was who's your publisher? People that don't even know book writing were like, cool, who's publishing it? I'm self-publishing it. And immediately it's like, you're that guy. Nobody believes in you. And you want to be like, no, people believe in me.

Host

You know, but you're self-publishing, so you're it's not gonna make it. And I, you know, I versus nowadays you use a publisher, they're taking 80% of the proceeds.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and like you have to be mega famous, and like that book still has to be one of the best and reach the like impossible category for it to sell. So the hardest, one of the hardest days of my life professionally, I set the release date and I was getting everything ready, and I was asking people to help me market it, and they did, and the day came. I was praying. I was like, Lord, I have five and a half years into this. Can you please show yourself mighty for me? And that day went and passed, and I sold 17 copies. Probably like 15 of family members. Like I don't know that, but at least I at least 15. And you know what the question you get asked on your launch day? How many did you sell? I didn't lie. And it was the darkest night professionally I've ever had of maybe everybody else was right. And it was the the first time in my life I fell into the pit of despair, which I've been very familiar with now, but I fell into that pit deep, dark, and alone. And I asked God, what do you want me to do? And I heard clear as me and you talking in my soul. I've never heard God audibly, his voice audibly. I've heard him audibly through other people tell me things, and I'm like, there's no way you'd know that about me. So just keep going. Okay. You got you don't have anything else? Like, hey, how about you go down to this lake and catch a fish and there's gonna be gold in its mouth, and then it's gonna take up for all the time I've wasted writing this book. Humiliated, broken, and I've just found that God does his greatest work from places like that. And I decided to keep going. And I stripped off as much pride as I knew how at that point. And man, I'd show up with I'd drive four hours to speak at events, and I'd have 40 books, and everybody thinks their event's gonna be bigger than it actually is. So I'd work with the person that booked me to speak, and I should I drive four hours, spend that money in gas and time, and I have 80 books in the back or 40 books in the back to sell, and I show up and I walk in with my books and I see eight guys there. And the pastor's like, Yeah, we just didn't have the turnout that we were planning on. And I sell two books and I go back and I go to the next one and I speak, and I go to the next one and I speak, and I just didn't give up. And for about six months, my life looked like that of speaking, developing, and showing up and saying, I'm gonna give a hundred percent effort, no matter who's in the room or how many people. And that's where I learned how to connect with an audience. And I'd never trade that for anything because I learned I'd go in at that time and I'd speak to men in small town Oklahoma or Kansas or Texas or wherever I was going to speak, Wisconsin, wherever in the country I was at at the time, and I'd look at them and be like, I can't relate with these guys at all. They're in overalls, and like they've been farmers their whole life. God, how do I connect with them? And I'd realize how to connect with them. And I learned I could speak on any stage in the country or around the world if you actually care about the people you're talking to. You can speak to any, I've spoken in Armenia, I spoke, where you're having an active translator going. I've spoken in Canada. I've spoken like you can reach people if you care about the people. But I learned then if you don't care about the size of the audience, or if you don't have a predetermined outcome that you're expecting and basing your emotions on, you will be effective when you speak. But God had to rip all of that out of me.

Host

I love that, man. I've had, I mean, that resonates with me in my own personal life. I've learned more from my failures than I have from my successes. It sucks. Yeah. But that's it's so true. That's when you die to your ego, you become humble, you, you know, even as this podcast has grown, I still try to stay super grounded, man. I'm always gonna be grounded. Yeah. Because, you know, the the thing that we've built. I told you this last night, man. Like, this isn't me. I'd love to tell you I'm super smart and I did all these crazy things. It's it this podcast is literally just me and my editor. That's great. And but it's all God, man. And it's all, you know, having that blind faith, which is tough. I I think I told you last night, you know, some sometimes I struggle with that whole blind faith thing, man. Uh, because I'm a I'm a tangible person, but you know, I'm learning to just step on the water and you know, hope I don't sink. Um, and so it's really cool to hear your story of, you know, it wasn't what you thought it was gonna be, but you didn't give up, dude. And I think there's a lot of people out here, there's a hidden message in that alone, right? Like sometimes, man, what you want in life or what you thought you wanted, you know, there may be another plan.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

And just because you thought it was gonna go this way and you prayed for it to go this way, or you hoped and wished, or whatever, and it didn't, doesn't necessarily mean you just quit. Like sometimes, you know, you have to persevere. I mean, that's what you know, military is all about is basic training and and you know, even advanced training and special operations, seer school, right? Like, you don't give up, man. You gotta keep going. Yeah, you know, the at the end of the day, and I think I said this recently too the sun's gonna set and the sun's gonna rise in the morning, and it's a new day. So, you know, it's good. I love that about your story, man. Tell me about the conference, and it was a Texas, Oklahoma conference. There's 3,500 men, yeah. And you ended up finding out there was like a coalition of people that are trying to remove you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the the one pastor that I met with and told me that he got of four other guys, and those those five of them that wanted to get me off that stage because honestly, it was the most sought-after conference to be a keynote in Oklahoma, Texas area. And the guy that was over it had balls of steel and put me as that guy because he was former military and he read my book, and he's like, This is unbelievable. I want you to do that. And they had this whole system of what you need to do to speak at it and what people did. And I just remember that feeling of like, give me a sling and the staff, and I'm going to win. Like, get like I've done this, I've conquered the lion, I've conquered the bear, I've showed up and drove four hours to speak to eight guys in a barn. You give me that microphone, I'll get the job done. And these guys wanted me off, and they hated me. And I almost I was in the parking lot. I was gonna go in, flip his table, and just beat the shit out of him for a little bit. Not anything crazy or threatening, but just like just remind him, like, hey, oh, cool, that's what being a man is. Like, cool, carry on with your day. But this is what you deserve for that. And I just prayed, Lord, I forgive him. I forgive him. Like, don't let anything that I do about myself, about being about myself or me proving people wrong, just let me do the job that you've appointed me to do. So it was interesting going into that conference because a lot of anybody's a professional speaker knows they want to see like what notes you have, they want to put it on the screen, and 3,500 people in our in an auditorium. It was over 3,500, but visually entertain them, right? Like, what clips from movies are you gonna use? What and they asked me, and I said, No, I'm just I'm gonna talk to them. Like, I got it. And it made them so nervous. Like, this dude is young, and this dude it has a shirt on. I had a t-shirt with a skull. These guys had like button-up shirts and all these things, I had jeans, and uh, and they said, Hey, so what are you gonna talk about? What I talked with the guy that's over it about, and I'm gonna connect with the guys and I'm gonna share the gospel with them. Okay, so you don't have any notes or anything for the screen, like scripture references. No, I want them to focus on me. I want them to hear what I have to say, and I'm gonna talk to them for 33 minutes. And my buddy, who's a studies pastor in Oklahoma City, former NFL football player, played for the Dolphins, Abraham Wright, one of my dear friends, he was with me, and it scared him because he's like, bro, this is the biggest opportunity in your career. You should have this outlined a little bit more. I'm like, I know what I'm gonna talk about. And I was I was in that talk, I was going to do an illustration that is different than most public speaking. It's almost like I I wanted to get the men into a story and let them feel like they were a part of this illustration. So 3,500 dudes, I'm gonna do this thing. And and these guys are like, okay. And I was scared to death by the time it was because I'm like, man, I hope this works. And I just got on my knees. I ended up getting strep before, so I was sick the two nights leading up to it. I got on my knees and I just asked the Lord, Will you will you show yourself mighty through me? And will you impact these guys? And I went and typically they set up your table. You're gonna talk, and I picked up the table on my way out, and I was all my I felt totally healthy, all my strength was back, and I was like, Oh, this is gonna be awesome. Pick it up, walk out, set it down, and gave the talk that started the movement behind my book. And I've never seen anything like it since, where you have ther over 3,500 men in the room that are hanging on every word that you speak because that word is authentic, and I believe it was covered in prayer for a long time and it had power and it met guys where they were, and it gave them a solution on how to get out of where they were at. I finished that talk and prayed, and I I spent my last 12,000 to me was like spending $200,000. My last $12,000 on product merchandise, my book. I had 564 books in the back. I literally driving down there was like, that's the last bit of my money. If this doesn't work, I'm out. I finished. There was literally, there's pictures of it. There was guys throwing money at the guys that were c that were selling my book because I just wanted to get it before it sold out. We sold out of every single book, all of the t-shirts, all the merchandise. And that was my first videos that went viral from that. And it was genuine life change that started to happen of guys saying, Oh, you invited me into the battlefield, and I want to die next to that guy.

Host

What did that mean to you after? I mean, five and a half years write the book. You've had these ups and downs. We just talked about, you know, uh the life altering, you know, you felt like a failure because it didn't achieve what you want it to finally get some type of validation. Like, I mean, you were you've been on a journey. It wasn't like you, you know, gutted it out for a year. I mean, five and a half years is a long time to refine your process. You turned down a major publishing company, you know, that wanted you to do this, that. You you you had a lot of conviction uh about you know what this thing that God had called you to do. What did it finally feel like to finally be like I I I mean, you must have had to fill some sort of vindications. I don't even know if that's the right word, but like, oh yeah, oh, oh, it's cool.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Guys that I knew were talking about me came up to me afterwards were like, that was the best talk I've ever heard. And guys that were doubters and haters became fans, and it felt it felt like everything I visualized and meditated, and I believed in myself becoming a reality. And I knew that battle was I could win it. I just needed the opportunity, and it felt so good, and also it's kind of like when David killed Goliath, it started another war for me that I wasn't ready for. It started then the war of really warring for the masculine soul and dealing with I want to say douchebags, but I probably yeah, the guys that were really insecure pastors that started to come at you criticizing your work, criticizing you as a man, criticizing your ability, your and those pastors like that.

Host

Not all pastors are like that, but those pastors have really contributed to probably one of the biggest declines in church attendance, I think, in at least in our history here in the US.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, and it's man, and I and I saw some of the most heroic pastors that are still friends of mine say, Cool, I want you to come speak at our church, and like we're gonna do that curriculum and our and you started to see the masculinity make a comeback inside of like what suffering looks like going through a six-week tran challenge together, not just showing up to get fed and taught the Bible, which I love getting taught the Bible, but you're living out the Bible seven days a week together. You're texting. I created a digital platform with the SoulCon app, which is still exists today. It's I saw it last night, it was super cool. I hadn't seen that. That's a very unique man. So it's super unique, and it's taken so many shapes and forms, and now it's just like a whole community globally for men that they can get and be a part of, but you create connectivity 24-7 for guys, and you start to let them know hey, I'm calling you into a fight, but you're not gonna be alone. If you're in South Africa, you're not gonna be alone. There's guys in South Africa, like if if you're in Australia, we have a ton of guys in Australia. If you're in Hungary, we have tons of guys in Hungary going through my book right now. You're not gonna be alone. So I wanted to provide a solution for the problem I was seeing, and from that point forward, I started to realize oh, Solcon challenge wasn't a mistake. And I went from killing Goliath on that battlefield to running from Saul and the David story.

Host

If you could well, and I you know, the next three and a half years were kind of I mean, you you travel the country, uh speaking to men. What was that season like in your life? Terrifying. Did you really feel the pressure?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love if if somebody I still speak like this next month, I'm gonna I'm up for a film. I hope I land it, where I'd be filming February, March, but early February, I'm gonna be speaking at a men's conference in Colorado in Pueblo West in Colorado, which is oh so if I could speak and like transport into through a portal, the stage, speak and leave, transport out, I would love speaking so much. But green rooms. Are the most terrifying place on the planet. And I started to see the thing that people don't want to see with speaking. Can you explain what a green room is? Yeah. So a green room is where you're about to go speak at a conference or an event, and that's where the walls you they used to be green in these painted, but it's the time where speakers and the main people rest from the crowd. They have snacks and food, and they're fueling you up to go be in front of the crowd and teach and do that. So it's a place of solitude for the leaders of the place. And I started to realize how broken and hurting those speakers were when you sat in the green room and listened to people. They were comparing and they were talking about performance and they were talking about their numbers and oh, this last and their measuring contests and all these things. And I started to see it and I hated it. So I didn't start to go into them. I'd start to go sit out in the back because I wasn't there to talk to somebody about how awesome I was that was a speaker. I wanted to minister to the guys, be with them, and then I wanted to go back home to my wife. And I had articles written about me. I got slammed. Like this guy's shirts are too tight, his biceps are too big, and I had a long hair at the time, and I had a man bun, and like they would be like every reason why they could find for me not to speak. He says sex when he talks, we're not gonna have him speak at our and I just remember thinking, like, what? What what like he doesn't have a degree in theology? I gotta at this point I have a master's degree from a Christian university. What are you talking about? Like, I'm speaking to men, and who cares? Like, I've never been in a conversation be like, hey man, before we have a relationship, what degree do you have? Men don't care about that. Yes, and that's where I wasn't ready for that season of life. And I love the men. I started to see a movement of men, transformation with men, lives changed. I love that, but I wasn't ready for the red tape that I saw that was that was demonic inside of the speaking circuit.

Host

You uh, you know, you you've seen and talked to, and and you know, with all these speak engagements in your book and the impact. I mean, you've talked to men about almost any struggles that they could have. Yeah. You talked about all of it. What patterns, if any, did you see with some of these people that you were talking to?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the top pattern is I say this for illustration always, when men talk to me about pornography, they like whisper, hey man, yes, I'm dealing with pornography. Every welcome to the club. You know, like I'm just like, bro, you I hate pornography. I believe it's demonic. And I wrote a book about the demonic inner exchange that happens with pornography. It is evil, and it's the purpose is to destroy your identity and to cover you with shame and hide you from God and the man that you're created to be. Pornography is demonic, it's evil. I hate it. The struggle and being tempted by it and falling to it is human. So I'm not ever saying in this that, like, oh, you can just fall and it's okay. But if you feel like ashamed and you can't talk to anybody about it, name one guy you've ever thought of that has not looked at pornography. I can't think of one. I've never met one. I've met one dude before he got married that was like, I've never looked at it. I'm like, I don't believe it, but okay. Then he got married, had sex. Five years later, he reached out to me and be like, dude, I'm so struggling with pornography. I thought sex would be this like esoteric thing that changed my life, and it wasn't. So I started looking somewhere else. So the one common denominator I see is guide guys hiding, thinking you're gonna judge me for the sin that I'm committing. And most every guy I've ever been around is like, bro, I'll pull you out of that. Like I'm not surprised by sin, but but I know who can heal you from it. So if you have the courage to tell me that, I'm gonna take you to the place of healing. I'm gonna pray with you, and I'm gonna challenge you to to it's called repent. I say it's the the lost word in the church today. I think every church service, every Sunday, should say this word, and I I analyze to see how many times it's said or when it's said in church services in this country. And I feel like pastors are afraid to a lot of them are afraid to say it. People need to repent. That means turn 180 degrees from what you're doing and go forward. But people are afraid to offend the people giving money to their church when people need to be offended. The cross is offensive. It says, hey, on your best day, you sent an innocent great man to die on a cross because you suck so bad, you couldn't attain what he did for you. Obtain it. But it's also the greatest symbol of hope. It's what Billy Graham said. Without that cross, you couldn't have a shot to be a good person. But with that bloodshed on that cross, you can actually be a good person. So the cross is the worst message on the planet for you, and it's also the best message on the planet.

Host

Do you think that's become because churches have become more like businesses? Yes. And because they're reliant on, you know, money that they don't want to say anything that's gonna make people feel offended or uncomfortable, even though the Bible is pretty it is pretty specific. You know, it's it's funny, I don't remember who told me this recently, but it's like, you know, you go to these funerals and you know, every everybody goes to heaven, right? When's the last time you went to a funeral when they're like, oh man, they went to hell, good luck.

SPEAKER_01

Never.

Host

But the reality is the Bible's pretty specific, dude. You're you're not everybody's gonna make it in, right? Like if you were a bad person and you didn't repent and you didn't, you know, try, yeah. You know, the the Bible has something to say about that. Whether it makes you feel uncomfortable or not, irregardless.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, the Bible, yeah, that that is where I I just constantly teach my kids when we leave church, and I I go to a great church, but I want to be reminded of the cross more frequently in this country than I am of hey, the cross means blood shed on the blood shed on this cross for all of us because we suck without Jesus. And because of the cross, it's the only way into a relationship with Jesus. And without a relationship with Jesus, you can't get into heaven. So you start to see these business institutions being afraid to talk about the cross because it's offensive. And I hear pastors talk all the time about giving to church and they're afraid to offend people. That'd be like me in the military telling you, you're like, hey, what's the standard for me to get an excellent score for my physical fit and readiness test? Because I want to get a promotion, but I'm afraid to tell you what it is because I feel like it's gonna hurt your feelings. No, you got to do 60 push-ups in two minutes. Oh, I'm offended by that. Sorry. Then, then, then don't get that excellent test. Like, what's the minimum? I hear pastors all the time, they're like, oh, giving, and you know, we'll talk about tithe. No, tithing is the minimum. 10% to your local church is the minimum. This is what the Bible, like, oh, that's Old Testament. Well, Jesus died to fulfill the law. So when you read the Bible as all about Jesus and it's one book and it's the understanding of two different covenants, 10% is the minimum. You have guys all the time, I want to be financially blessed. Cool. What are you doing with that 10%? Oh, I give, I throw a hundred bucks every once in a while to God. Okay, cool. Well, the standard of excellence is 60 push-ups in two minutes. So that's the standard. I'm not gonna change it because of your sweet little excuses. The Bible talks about the standard, it's following Jesus with everything you have. If 10% giving 10% of your money ruffles your feathers that much, I don't want to talk to you about your sexual purity. I don't want to talk to you about your purity and your thought life to your wife or parenting your kids from pure heart. If I'm gonna offend you with that standard, we got work to do. And we have a whole bunch of churches that are afraid to offend the church-going people. And bro, let's talk about Jesus for a second. The dude was amazing. He is amazing, but like I would have been the worst follower of him ever. So just imagine you're sitting with him, and all of this crowd comes up, and you're sitting with him, and you're and you're thinking they're gonna like he's gonna reign and rule as King David. He's gonna be the new King David here. So cool, we're gonna get these people and we're gonna, so oh, that's what these disciples are thinking. Or you're like Judas Iscariot, and thinking they're gonna give a big offering and fund us, and we're gonna live a comfortable life here for a little bit, and we're gonna establish. And Jesus is like, hey man, unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you're not worthy to follow me. And they all leave. I'd be like, Come on, bro. That was the worst motivational message I've ever heard. Like, and he's like, What were you guys gonna follow me too? Are you gonna are you gonna leave? Peter's like, where else are we gonna go? So what do they do next? They get in a boat, they cross over a sea. So, like massive hordes of people, Jesus offends every one of them. Get in a boat, follow, go to the other side of the sea, and they get off, like they just cross over the sea of Galilee, they get to the other side, and a a demon-possessed naked man runs up to them that the whole town can't hold down with chains. And I'm if I'm Peter here, I'm like, we we're following the wrong dude. Like, this is we went from like the land of the promised land and plentiful to a demon-possessed man that can't be held down with chains in a cemetery. And he, I put myself there so many times. He comes up to Jesus and starts to talk to him. He has a legion of demons inside of him and asks Jesus for mercy. That's a badass dude, man. You're you're a fisherman and you're like, oh, that's incredible. Cast the demons out of this dude. They go into a pigs and they run off the cliff. Sends that dude back to be give a testimony about his family. And what does it show that Jesus cares about? He cares about the man giving a testimony rather than the hordes of people that will praise him. We need to get back to that place as the church because then we'll mobilize and see it. And there's a lot of churches that do it, but a lot of churches have fallen into they're afraid to offend people in business because they've set a budget of operation. If they offend people, they're gonna fall short of and church. But they'll but the but they have no problems talking about tithing. Yeah, which is which is a trip. And you like so so you see that side of the brokenness, and but that's where if that's I've been my whole life. If you are who you say that you are, then live it. Man, if you're gonna tell me I'm a dog, live as a dog. Then why aren't you living as a dog? Like, why are you walking around all like if you're a dog, live as a dog. If you believe you're a dog, then do it. And if you're not doing what you say that you believe, then I'm gonna challenge you on that. Why aren't you doing it fully? I identify as a furry. Cool, like be that furry. I'll tell you the Bible, there's a story of a king that had to live as a furry for seven years, seven seasons of life that went by. You want to live it? Do it, do it all the way. Because at the end of that road, you're gonna find just like that king did, there's one true God, and you're gonna realize your only purpose is found when you have a relationship with him.

Host

The soul con philosophy. Yeah. Soul con equals soul control. What is your soul under the control of that you're trying to Yeah?

SPEAKER_01

So uh so really, really practically from what the hell effect that we talked about earlier with psychology. I could have you let's do it. Well, let's not let's take too long, but I could have everybody do it, do it later. You can shut your eyes and visualize Thanksgiving, and you can sit in the room that you're in where you're not smelling Thanksgiving food, and you can visualize that, and you can actually have a physiological reaction from a psychological meditation. And we all know it, because you can shut your eyes and get horny and get an erection from a thought without smelling a female around you without seeing a female, you can think about it. You can have a physiological reaction from a psychological meditation. You can think about a lemon and you can pucker up and get saliva built up in your mouth. That is your soul. So the thing that you're thinking about, Charles Darwin in all of his study was trying to prove that the brain was the human and realized it is not the human. And now we have something called epigenetics that actually is proven that your brain is controlled by something else. And if you don't like the way that you are, you can think different and rewire your brain through neuroplasticity, the process and epigenetics to change it. So if your brain isn't what Darwin thought and tried to prove, and your brain is not who you are, and your brain is not controlling your life, then what is? And that's where SoulCon comes from to say, is it are you meditating on things that honor God that propel you forward with the destiny that He has for you? Or are you meditating on things that are going to destroy your legacy in your life? And that war is fought and won in the soul of what you allow to control you. And the Bible's really clear. Galatians 5, 16, 17, that war raging that we talked about earlier. Paul's like, your flesh is waging war against your spirit, and your spirit's waging war against your soul. What are they fighting for? Or your flesh, those two things are fighting. They're fighting for the who's gonna have dominance over your mind, will, and emotions. That's your soul. Your mind, will, and emotions is who you are inside. When I need to, I need you guys to understand this with without any biblical context, it's really important. God said to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, if you eat of this this tree, the tree of knowledge of good and evil, you will die. They still lived. Adam lived for 930 years. He didn't die. Did God lie? No, he died spiritually. God said, Let us make man in our image. So we're a body, soul, and a spirit. When they ate of that fruit, they died in their spirit. So before you know Christ, you are fully alive in your mind, will and emotions and your body. You are spiritually dead. Jesus said, I the thief comes to steal John 10, 10, to steal, kill, and destroy, but I've come to give life and life more abundantly. When you hear words and language, then you need to know what they mean. So that word life means Zoe. It's a God-breathed life. What's the last time we've heard that? In the Garden of Eden. What did God do when he made man? He breathed into them. He breathed his spiritual life into them, and they they became He formed them from the dust, from the ground, from the dirt, and then he breathed. The next time you hear that is Jesus saying, I've come to give them life and life more abundantly. That's a God-breathed life that will awaken you spiritually. Paul says it in 2 Corinthians 5, 17. The old is passed away. Behold, the new has come. If you're a man that knows God and you've met Jesus, you're spiritually alive. You also have a flesh that's alive, and it drives me crazy that we still do have a flesh that's alive because I love Jesus and I don't want to have a brain that's tempted to go fight or have sex or look at pornography or eat unhealthy. But there's that war raging constantly inside of me. And the soul con is about practicing winning that with the little battles. That's what Richard Marcinko said. The more you sweat in training, the less you bleed in battle. And I need men to get that philosophy in their life as men of God.

Host

You've kind of made the statement your body is either a tool to worship God or the kingdom of darkness to destroy your soul. There's really no gray area. Can you kind of explain that idea?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. So it's really cool. I've done this a lot with men of like, I want you to worship God without using your body. You can't. You can't worship God without using your body. And that guy, I'm like, okay, cool. Like if we're debating, then show me one way you can worship God without using your body. It's impossible. You can't do it. So your brain, your endocrine system, your hands, your body, you can't worship God without using your body. So your body is what Paul says in Romans 12:1. Paul was literally writing to the most sophisticated people on the planet and revered. Paul was revealed, revered in the same category as Socrates and Plato. He was a mind of his time. If we had the equivalence of that, he spoke three languages. He's sorry, he had the equivalence of like three PhDs and spoke around 15 languages. The guy was brilliant. He was trained up, he was a part of the Sanhedrin. He was one of the most elite mentally guys on the planet. And he's saying, I'm going to plead with you. Please offer your bodies to God as a living sacrifice because this is your spiritual act of worship. Romans 12, 1. So he's writing the most intellectual people on the planet, saying, Your body is your spiritual act of worship. So if the Bible says that, and we know that as believers, I can't worship God without using my your my body, Satan can't attack you without using your body. So when you really get that, to say, how are you going to destroy your marriage? With your hands, with your eyes, with your mouth, you can't destroy your marriage without using your body, without using your words, which come from your vocal cords, which come from off of your tongue. Like you so when guys really start to realize I'm going to weaponize my body as a tool of worshiping God, it changes not only their life, it changes their family, it changes the atmosphere inside of their home, it changes spiritual authority inside of their house with their wife and their kids. It changes everything.

Host

Blood pressure, biomarker, strength training. Why are all these spiritual issues?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So Jewish, the Jewish culture didn't have a differentiate, they still don't, they don't differentiate between body, soul, and spirit. Everything's spiritual. Christians have segregated that with a lot of our understanding today. And what happens is we like to justify sin to say that doesn't matter. Where Jesus says, if you love me, obey my commands. And what's the greatest command that Jesus said? He said, Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength. That actually means with all of the physical ability pumping through your body for your heart, that is actually the epicenter of life in your body, you can't take your physical heart and your blood out of that. Your mind is your brain, your intellectual processing system, everything you have intellectually. Your soul is every part of your deep meditation, emotional, your will, and then your body. So if you try to tell me and I've I've done it so many times, I walk into churches and they're singing and God, I worship you with all my heart. And so cool. I hope you do what's your blood pressure? What's your cholesterol? Oh man, I haven't been to the doctor in years. I haven't, I don't, I don't check that. How are your teeth? How's your dental health? Oh man, don't do that. Like, don't talk to me about that. It's like, well, if we want to be the best version of ourself, I'm not saying that's the focus. I'm saying if I love my wife, I want to, I want to honor her. So is stewardship important for me as a man? Yes. If Jesus is Lord of my life, my answer can only be yes. So you and I know this. If we go into a stressful situation and you can't control your heart rate, you're not as effective as you should be. If we're training and clearing rooms together and me and you are doing that, and you're really out of shape and you can't catch your breath, love you. I'm gonna replace you. Hey man, shut up. Like, why are you so loud? Like, can you please train and get ready for this so you're not sucking wind while we're trying to clear through these rooms? Do the training so you're ready. And men want that. They wanted to be invited invited into that. But I but I know if I'm if I take some pre-workout and I can't make it to the gym, and then my wife starts to like kind of fight with me and my kids are going, all of a sudden I'm like ready for war. And it's not a good place for me to emotionally respond and be reactive to a situation that demands me to be at a more controlled state. Pre-workout helps me attack the weights, but that's that's so I can be conditioned to handle everything in the stressful environment of work and life and family. So uh it's one of the most important things in our life. You've written eight books in total.

Host

What what are what are your other books?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So Rock Kazakh's one of my favorites. It is a short read. It's actually my only one that's in a performance category on Audible. It's really a great listen. It's two hours and 50 minutes of a listen. It's performed with another actor, and it's about the ancient Hebrew war cry of the Old Testament warriors and how that translates into your life today. So I read it, and one of my friends that's an actor read reads it. It goes through the life of David before he fights Goliath in a way that you've never thought about it before. And then it's from me with all of my education, with all of my experience, and I'm literally talking to you as like a performance coach through it to say, what do you need to do today to make the best life for yourself today? What do you need to change? And I give you the 60-second shot clock. So it's all about living courageously for these dreams and purpose that you have been given, and it challenges you to say, if you really believe that you're supposed to do it, what are you doing by not doing it? So it's my favorite. The Soul Con series, The Numbing Effect is a really good one. The probably my favorite is my one of my favorites is my most recent one, The Dragon Hunt. And it talks about it's a book for married men with pornography, 21 Days to Walk into Freedom with Pornography. This is actually the second podcast only I've ever talked about it publicly. I wrote it's an allegory of demonic warfare for and it's a rated R book. So you go through it 21 days, it will change your life.

Host

And we'll uh we'll make sure we put links to all those down there so people can find them. The Soul Con Warrior Elite, the sequel you wrote in Israel. Can yeah can you tell our listeners about that?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so I finished it in Israel. And one of my favorite points was I was well, anytime you're trying to tap into the heart of inviting men into being a warrior for Christ, atmosphere is important. We're gonna get into this, but I'm an actor full time, and it's like this podcast studio. You you guys can't see it online, but the atmosphere is incredible. Everything screams purpose and authenticity and magic. It's so beautiful. It's magnificent. Thanks, dude. So when you're in a scene and we're acting, that's important. What's around you? What's like it's it helps draw out those genuine emotions. So when I write, I really love to be inspired by what's around me. And I actually hate writing. But I have to think of the in-purpose. So Warrior Elite is the sequel to Solcon. So all Solcon Challenge. So you go through that and then I'm writing a sequel. These guys all meet back up and do cold weather training. This is before cold plunges were popular. But in the military, if you've been to the military, you know cold plunges didn't start with a fad and a, you know, like it's cool, and then fad, they're great for you. I like cold plunges a lot, but it wasn't fad-driven. It was like, hey, we're gonna go out in Lake Michigan and we're gonna freeze. We're gonna work on your mental toughness. So that's what was in this book. These guys meet back for cold weather training, this fictional six-week experience. My fate, it's my favorite book I've ever written. I think it's the most powerful book I've ever written is Sulkan Warrior Elite. But I I wrote one part of it staring up at a hill in Israel where Joshua and his men conquered 31 kingdoms. I was looking at one of the kingdoms they conquered, and it was up on a hill, and you can see it, and it's historically there. And I'm writing and I'm looking at this hill thinking, like you've done sprint work up a hill. Awful. Who wants to fight when you sprint up a hill? Like I saw Kung Fu Panda with my kids when it came out, and he like has to sprint up and then fight. It's hilarious. Like, hang on, you know, like who wants to start a fight at that pinnacle of exhaustion? That's what they did. And they build these big walls on top of the hills, and so they could have the height, the the advantage of being above them. So I'm writing there thinking, men could think it's impossible to win this victory, but I gotta show them that with Christ all things are possible, whether it's a porn addiction, whatever it is. So I wrote there and I wrote one of my favorite places I wrote at this coffee shop, and this guy came up to me, and it was in Jerusalem, but he's like, Hey, you probably shouldn't be sitting here. I was like, why? He's like, it's probably not safe. That's okay. So I keep writing. This guy comes up to me and he's like, Hey man, what are you writing? I said, Ah, I'm writing a book. And he's like, Oh, I said it's about fitness. I said, Do you mind if I talk to you about it? And um, it's Palestinian. And I knew the area that I was in. And he's like, sure. I said it's about faith. You mind if I talk to you about faith? Sure, I own this place, you can talk to me about it. And I'm writing the part of evangelizing the gospel, looking a guy in my eyes that in his area could have the right to kill me for what I'm telling him. And I tell him all about Jesus, and he never heard about Jesus. So I'm writing in his place, in his coffee. I bought coffee from him, and I'm sitting in his place, and I get a share about Jesus. I didn't see him come to Jesus, but it was the first time, and he finished. He said, Okay, you better get out of here now. Hey, what's your name? Can I pray for you? I grab my laptop, I pray for him, and I walk out, and I don't look behind me. I'm like, oh, if he's gonna kill me, it's a good time to go. And I just walk down the street, and that book was written from a place of how I really want to be as a man. And I'm come to find out, going through a lot of those pits of despair, I'm not as strong as I thought I was. That's how I want to live. So that book came from that place of fearless courage that I hope to be. The Solcon series is written that way. So when you read it, don't be like, oh, Cody's awesome. No, let me tell you, some of those dark pits of life have broken Cody. Sear School broke me. I thought I was tough, man. You have like in when you go through Seer School, you have certain words that you have to say that will stop their torture. And I'm like, I'm not. Shoot, I'm getting waterboarded, they're gonna have to kill me. Bro, I was in a room, and I broke, and I told them exactly where my mom lived. And I was I was like, I yeah, and and their purpose, and I was laughing, I was watching it with the guys afterwards, and they're like, every everybody breaks. And I think that's a secret Christian men need to realize that everybody breaks. We all have breaking points.

Host

Solcon Warrior 365 devotional. I'm actually going through that, it's been an awesome you know, so far. You wrote 700 plus devotionals during a really big time of depression in your life. Can you tell me or tell us, I guess, if you will, about kind of where that was born at and you wrote it. I don't want to give it away because I want people to buy and read it, but you wrote it in a very unique perspective.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, we'll we'll talk about my acting journey a little bit, like more. We'll dive into that. But I but I wrote it from a place of of really dealing with depression. And I hadn't I I've never been a person that has dealt with depression. And I fell into a dark pit of depression and realized it's a it's a pit you fall into that's 30 feet deep with muddy walls, and you don't know how to get out of. And you feel like prayer should get you out of it. And then everybody else thinks that prayer should get you out of it. But there are times and moments in your life where God will allow you to fall into that pit to reveal who He is to you and who you are when you see Him as He truly is, and that pain is okay and it Oh man, it broke me. I went into that pit after a really hard failure in my life, and I I 5 14 a.m. one morning, I broke and told God if he had any fucking power to just fucking kill me. And I, you know, like I screamed so loud with every ounce of energy that I had when I was done, I couldn't like I had nothing left. And it was in the parking lot, I was about to go to the gym and I walked out with anybody and I screamed at him and I was like, I'm done. Like I'm literally and I got it all out and I went inside my car exhausted, and I heard God say, I love you.

SPEAKER_02

And I was like, What?

SPEAKER_01

And that moment changed my life when I just cussed him out and made fun of him, and he sat with me and said, I love you. I realized at that point who he is is not phased by who I say he is, and he is not an insecure god looking for my approval, and I could be as honest as possible with him, and from that point forward, I started to write from being his son. So Solcon Warrior 365 is probably the most heartfelt, intimate writing I've ever done because I never wrote it to go to people. I started writing it to myself to remind me of who God is to me and who I wanted to be. I want to be a warrior, but sometimes I feel like a scared kid that needs dad to hold his hand and walk through the valley that I'm afraid of. So, everyone, I would write to myself. I like quotes from people, I like reading and I like people's lives. You go through it because I've had so many people ask me, why don't you put quotes from yourself in your book of like from different books and Commander Bugsley from like fictional parts? I I didn't write it that way. Like I didn't write it thinking it was gonna be a book. I wrote it to myself, and I'd look at these historical figures and these quotes up here of Cory Ton Boom of the Hiding Place, one of my favorite books. And I'd get a quote from her thinking how in the hiding place she learned to praise God for the fleas that protected her from getting tortured in the concentration camps. And I'd put a quote, and then I'd write, son, and I'd write what I needed to hear from God that day. And then I added in a scripture because sometimes, as a man, I wouldn't be like, I'm reading my Bible for an hour every day. Sometimes all I have is the ability to look at one verse because I'm so tired. And I wrote one verse and one challenge to myself to be a warrior, and then one prayer for me to be a warrior, and what I learned changed my life to say, I need to be able to sit with God as dad, and I need to be able to go out from that place as a warrior. And then I I probably have I don't know how many I have, over 700. And then I felt like the Lord told me to put it into a book. And I was like, oh, that's terrifying. And I did. It was a month of really hard work to orchestrate it, put it in, format it, and then I released it. It's probably the I've had more men, no matter where they're at in the world, reach out to me and say, Man, thank you. But it's it wasn't written for them, it was written for to save my soul. And it's so it's so cool. They're like, gosh, this book is changing my life. It's like, well, first it changed mine.

Host

It's kind of why I started a podcast, bro. I think I needed this more than anybody. Yes. That's wild. Yeah, before we dive in kind of to the next phase in your life, which is a really important current phase of life. Let's uh let's take a quick break. You made a very unique pivot in your career, one that I didn't totally see coming, but it fits. And the more I've gotten to know you and gotten to understand your visions, this is gonna be super powerful. And I think you know, you're gonna submit your yourself in an industry that's kind of like where you just, you know, you you fought the church, not literally, but you know, to to find your place. I think this is gonna be another one of those, and I'm super excited to watch this. But you have, you know, switched from what you were previously doing, and you still have these books and you still have kind of all these other things going. We didn't even talk about all your businesses, but you made a shift into acting. I I'd really love for you to explain to to the viewers and the listeners like what that was, you know, how that was born, and and yeah, and and and then we'll dive into what you're what you got going on.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I want every guy to hear from my story. If you remember one thing, God is real and he speaks to us today. Like, just remember that always, because he is real, he is not religion, he is a relationship, his name's Jesus, and he speaks to us today. Most men are so distracted they don't listen to him and they don't make space for it. So I was with my family. We were on an 18-day vacation in Mexico, and my phone was off the entire time. And I digitally set that up that way. And if you think, oh, Cody's rich and he's able to do that, no, I was actually working as like a fitness trainer for the resorts, so it was really cool. It was actually cheaper for me to be on that vacation than to let do like pay and pay for life back home, which was really a cool thing. So I was just I'd do one hour class a day as a fitness trainer, and it paid for my whole family's stay for the whole time and all the food and all the everything. And we got the whole five-star experience with me working one hour a day, and I'd work out with like one or two hungover people, and it was the easiest job of my life. It's awesome, dude. So I had my phone off for the whole time, and I made space to listen to God. And my whole focus was to experience God's presence and to be with my family, experiencing God's presence and to have no distractions of life. So, with that, I love, I tell everybody, I love waking up early, but it's because I go to bed early. I love, we talked about this this morning. I try to get eight hours of sleep a night, no matter what time zone I'm in or what process I have, because I feel like a rested man is an easier to defeat man, and I don't want to be a man easier to defeat. So I like to be rested, and but I like to wake up early. And this morning in Cancun, it was early, and I spent, I got out of the room at 5.15. I spent time reading the Bible, praying, and I was going to work out before the whole day started. And I was going to the gym, and there was no wind, and I was walking to the gym, and a gust of wind hit me in my chest. I said, that was weird. And I looked around to see if there was air conditioning or a door that just opened. I was like, man, it was really an odd thing. Like, there's no wind coming through here. I was looking at the trees. Says, hey, Lord, is that are you are you wanting to talk to me? And I paused. So I started walking and praying, and I can start to feel his presence. So I walk and I continue to walk and I walk out to the where the beach is because I love the water, and I'm looking out there, and it's early, like the sun is starting to rise. And I'm looking out at the sea, and the low I hear the Lord say, Would you? I'm looking at the Gulf of America. At the time it was a Gulf of Mexico. Hadn't been conquered yet. But I'm looking out the Gulf of Mexico, so I know what I'm looking at, and the Lord says, Would you follow me into the depth of the ocean? And I said, Ah, that's terrifying. And I started to think about what it would be to follow him in the depth of the ocean. You'd be terrified as a human. And I said, Hey, I've already done, I'm doing men's ministry full time. Like that's the scariest work of any writer or speaker. And I'm you've provided a way for me to do it full time, and I'm establishing this global men's ministry. So isn't this the depth of the ocean? And he doesn't say anything, and eventually I say, Yes, I will. And he said, I want you to act. So I told my wife, God just called us to acting. She's like, Cool, let's do it. I'm like, well, the problem is I have no skill set. Like, I've never done this. I've always thought actors were sissies, which I learned now they're not at all. It's really, really hard performance, it's hard work and it's incredible art. But when God calls you, he doesn't call you based on your current resume. He calls you based on what he has given you when you got saved. And part of my DNA was ignited for the calling he was going to equip me for. And all he needed was my obedience. And I said, Yes, sir. So from that point to where we went, I read every book on acting that I could. I know how dumb I am, really. Like when people are ever impressed, it's like, no, I, oh man, I you read all the time. Oh, yeah, it's I'm really it you pull the curtain back. I'm a really dumb dude. So I have a brain that works really hard and is constantly being educated because I want to be ready for whatever opportunity is ahead of me. So I listened to and read everything on acting that I could, everything on directing, like how directors work with actors. I wanted to learn the film world. And eventually I had the opportunity to do my first film and be a lead in a film called Hold the Pass, where I was Shamgar from the Bible, and we ripped heads off and we killed bad guys, and I fell in love with fighting on film, with showing masculine, authentic emotion on film and telling stories of heroic masculinity. And from that point, I never wanted to do anything else with my life.

Host

One of the things I thought that was pretty interesting that you told me is, you know, we need believers committed to excellence in the arts to change popular culture. Yeah. What does that mean to you?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I step into acting and I start to realize there's a whole bunch of like secret believers in the acting world because I anything I do, I do all the way. So if God's gonna call me into acting, I want to lead Hollywood level films and productions. And if this what's the standard of excellence? I want to find it, achieve it, and crush it. I like Vinavetovici. I came, I saw, I conquered. I want to do that for God's kingdom. So if he calls me into an arena as a gladiator, I want to win. So what does it take to win? It takes a commitment to excellence. And and I saw it in the speaking circuit, there's a lot of people that are Christians that use God and being a Christian as an excuse to be lazy with preparation. Laziness never honors anybody, and it doesn't honor the king of kings. Think about our time in the military, law enforcement. If you have a lazy dude working for you and he has all these excuses, that doesn't honor anybody. It doesn't protect anybody. It just actually leads to a really complacent life, and those are the most dangerous people. One of the most common things you see in the Christian speaking circuit is guys becoming complacent and lazy with their own personal devotion time with God because they're doing it now professionally and they're losing the intimacy with God that they had of just relationship. And it's the most common thing. I've talked with some of the biggest speakers in the world that are traveling Christian speakers. It's a common thing. And I found in the arts, as actors, it's also a common thing to be like, oh, I make Christian film. And those Christian filmmakers are not committed to excellence in filmmaking, and they make crappy projects. And they expect everybody to do things for free for them. And they expect, like, hey, let's just hope to get into the arena. And I'm like, no, let's be gladiators that dominate in this arena. Like, let's we have the creative source of Almighty God inside of us. Let's be the best we can be. And how do you do that? By pouring out all of your blood, sweat, and tears before that battle begins. I think Christian actors and filmmakers should be the best of the best of the best. And they've allowed themselves to be in. If you ever played football, there's like a toilet bowl. Do you remember toilet bowls? It's like you play for the Super Bowl, or you could play for the toilet bowl, the toilet bowl is the bowl for losers. And I feel like a lot of Christian filmmakers are like, oh, we'll just play for the toilet bowl. And that's gonna be cool. Well, I have friends that are filmmakers. Andy Irwin, one of them, one of my dear friends, that made I can only imagine now, I can only imagine two comes out February 20th. I want everybody to see it. Bro, you're it's gonna be one of the most incredible movies you've seen.

Host

Yeah, the first movie was really well.

SPEAKER_01

My best friend is the director of that, and also one of my best friends is the lead actor of that. And I gotta see it at a screening. It's one of the top five movies I've ever seen. It should win an Oscar. Michael, John Michael Finley's performance in that should win an Oscar. It's committed to excellence. It is the standard of excellence, and I think every single person in film should be committed, especially Christian, should be committed to that standard. And Andy Irwin leads the way with that with Kingdom Story Company and my buddy John Michael Finley.

Host

So, I mean, what I'm hearing you say is that, you know, uh there is this almost like a responsibility, yeah, to be able to go out there and again, man, we've talked about it. I don't, if I say what I really think, I probably won't even air on YouTube, but you know, we live in this culture now where you know we have to infuse all these things that really have nothing to do with the story, really detract from the story, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_01

Yes.

Host

I can't tell you how many times I've been watching a good war movie or something, and there's some scene in there, you're just like, why? Yep, you're watching it. Why you gotta watch Two Dudes Kiss? Like, why why why was that needed for this story? And it's to appease people, which I would guarantee that probably 90% of the audience didn't even need that, like it did the story, didn't need that. But then they write that in to appease something, and so the thought of you know there being cool action films, again, that I can still take my kids and watch. Yes, is appealing, man.

SPEAKER_01

So that's where my buddy Andy and he his company makes really incredible films that are true stories, and Jeremy Camp's story and Bart Millard's story from I Can Only Imagine and these amazing stories. But I've just come to find one of the solutions I want to be a part of in the filmmaking side is the John Wick, Jason Bourne, Gladiator 300 movies that are the rated R, if needed, action films that we all will never forget the experience. I'll never forget when I watched 300 the first time, when I watched Gladiator the first time. I'll never forget those moments.

Host

Like emotionally, what I was funny you say that because as you're talking about that, I can remember 16 years old when Brave Heart came out. I remember watching it in the movie theater. And you remember, like, like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, like you remember those moments because they they say in public speaking, if I want to get you to remember something, I have to get you to emotionally unlock a memory you have about what I'm saying, and then you'll never forget it. In movies, the best movies, you see yourself as that person. William Wallace, like, every dude is like, I see myself as him. I want to be that person. And I see a problem that I want to be a part of the solution with. I want to create, and we're going to, Hollywood level action and thrillers with a heavenly purpose behind each one of them that will be on the standard of excellence globally, that will be created. All of our content will be created. The company is called i68 Studios from Isaiah 6.8, but it's just i68 Studios. All of it will be created for the masculine soul. So you're gonna go and know. Yeah, you're gonna, you're gonna see some violence because I love story driven violence. I don't like seeing violence that doesn't need to happen. I've seen too much of that in my life. I want to see violence that drives the story. And I want to see proper storytelling to where it puts me in a place of impact in my soul. And then I want to to know is there a heavenly purpose behind that? Because I believe if you can understand. And unleash proper storytelling for the masculine soul. You can give guys the motivation they need to experience something of themselves that goes back to their house community and changes their life.

Host

Yeah, if people, you know, with morals and values, you made a statement. If they sit on the sidelines and they shut their mouths, we're gonna lose. What is it you think that we're losing? The war.

SPEAKER_01

So it I think the worst thing a man can do is what social media has enabled us to do is grab a phone and type, but not have the balls. Like you know, the the worst comments you'll get were people with no profile picture, the private thing, and you can't really find out anything about them. If you have a problem with somebody, be a man and talk to them face to face. Use your voice, use your presence, get out there and be a part of the solution. And don't just bring a problem, bring a solution because jerks do that and they just talk about problems or weak, cowardly men. We need strong men to rise up to say, I'm going to be a part of the solution. And what does this world need? This world needs a wave of men saying biblical masculinity is masculinity. Everything else is toxic. And I want to see men celebrate when evil gets punished and take that same motivation into their house to say, I'm going to punish the evil spiritually happening inside of my house, starting with my ability to tolerate sin.

Host

Yeah, you know, you you've talked about it before. I mean, Germany in the late 1930s. Yes. The church kept quiet. As a matter of fact, they put schwatskas on some of their buildings. Yes. You reference this at times. Yeah. It's cool. I mean, why?

SPEAKER_01

Good research. That's crazy. I love that. We're at a similar place. And I agree. One of my favorite guys, Dietrich Bonhoeffer, Eric Metaxis, wrote a book about him, and it's a great story. The Costa Discipleship is one of my favorite books I've ever read. It's by a salty 28-year-old that went to America to be safe from the German church, the German persecution that was happening. Realized when he got to America, that's what he needs to go. That's a problem he needs to solve because people were appeasing the government and putting swastikas on their churches because they were afraid of the consequences. And he's like, hey, we need a Fido and go back over there and drive on. And he went back to Germany to say, this is not how it is. We need to have courage and stand, and I'm going to show you how to do it. And he tried to kill Hitler himself. He missed by one room, almost blew him up and almost killed him. That pastor almost killed Adolf Hitler. He wanted to take a stand against evil. And one of the greatest evils that he talked about and what he said was when the church sees a problem, they stay quiet with their words. And I think we have today a whole bunch of men that don't know what to say or how to say it, so they stay quiet and they're afraid. And we need men to speak up. We need men to say, yes. If you're a grown man, having sex with a little girl is wrong. And you should die for it. You should be punished. There should be justice. It's wrong. Human trafficking, we need to win this war with human trafficking. If that offends you, I don't give a shit. I'm sorry. For you, it needs to be stopped. Then you take that same passion and put it into what's feeding human trafficking is an insatiable lust for pornography. I didn't even know there was such a thing as gore porn. Have you ever heard of gore porn? Me neither. There's a whole bunch of porn. I've never even heard of BDSM when that came out. I had no idea what it was. Guys like to get their jollies off watching people get tortured, real life tortured. And that gives them the high because they're not getting satiated by what they've seen and they want more and they want more of a high. We need strong men to stand up and say, enough's enough. And we know popular culture is influenced by one place a majority of the time, two places, one place in particular. Hollywood impacts popular culture. Popular culture impacts what people feel like they can say and what they can't say. You have the entertainment world with sports and movies. So I feel like what I'm supposed to do and what I'm going to do and what I'm doing is to solve that problem and say I can't solve the whole world's problem, but I'm going to, I'm going to create movies in a studio that doesn't have to ask Hollywood permission because Hollywood's not my fight. I love so many people. People are like, oh man, is it crazy being a Christian on a film set? No, it's crazy being a Christian in a green room. Like, you want to talk about terrifying? Put me in a green room. I love film sets. Like, they're great. I had a hair and makeup lady that was satanic. Like, I don't fear darkness because I know light overpowers it. I fear people that handed Jesus over to be crucified, these religious, great-looking people that think they're doing justice and right, and they send the innocent man to get killed. Those are the people that are terrifying. So we need a solution on a Hollywood level storytelling with excellence in the action and thriller genre that pushes out and helps shape popular culture with stories like our first film, What We're Gonna Do. Could you imagine if John Wick had like a heavenly purpose behind it? We've talked about it. Originally, The Matrix, like Terminator, there's so many things of so originally, Terminator and um it was producer I was talking to. Terminator and The Matrix had a different writer, and the story is amazing. It was actually one story and it was supposed to be a Christian story. That's why we see so many narratives about it. You take storytelling like Jesus did, and you take parables, and you can inspire men on a totally different level. If 300 didn't have a few crap scenes it had in it, which was unnecessary for the story, you could have a conversation with guys, like what they believed. But you know, 300 didn't show that those soldiers were also having sex with each other. I wouldn't want to see that. And they knew with making that movie to tell the true story of those Spartans in war, how they trained. They didn't want to show that. I'm grateful that they didn't. The third one was gonna show that they never made it.

Host

Yeah, it's like that movie Alexander.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, Alexander. Same thing. Same thing. Like we get Alexander the Great. I want to see that story, and I'm okay with understanding that he struggled with that deeply. I'm okay with storytelling that goes forward with the story.

Host

I man. Well, Hollywood did a good good job on that trailer to make you think it was gonna be some historical war movie. Then you watch it, and I was I've never walked out of the theater so disappointed in a movie.

SPEAKER_01

I'm like, so disappointed the same thing. Oh, me and my buddies, we all left the same way of like, oh, that was a bait and switch. Yeah.

Host

You had a chance to train with Captain America's stunt double, the Deadpool actor. Yeah, he's a believer. Tell us about that year of training.

SPEAKER_01

He's one of the coolest dudes alive. He was Captain America's stunt double in Winter Soldier or Civil War. My son has his card. He gave my son his card and he signed it. So one of those. And then he was in the suit in Deadpool 1, and he's won, I think, like three times best stunt double in Canada. He's probably one of the I think he's he should. They just sort of bringing stunt men into the category of Oscars. He should he deserves to win it. He's one of the best performers I've ever seen and taught me the art of fighting on film. And I worked with him for a year. I worked with him where he lives in Montana. I worked with him in Texas multiple times. We would work in Utah, and he trained me. And you and I know fighting on a level of combat with purpose. It's not combat for showmanship. And it's totally different. It's like you speak English and I teach you to speak Chinese. That's how different it is as a fighting language. So if we're talking about fighting in real life as opposed to fighting on film, and the scariest guys that I'll fight with on film are the real life fighters. Because you know, as an actor, crap, I'm gonna get hit. Because you get into the adrenaline and your body has all this response, and you think of like, I'm gonna go back to the art form I know, which is hurting and combat with purpose. So he taught me combat for entertainment, and I fell in love with it. Like, how do you show, like, what are the planes of movement for action with a sword, with a knife, with a gun, with a punch, with a uppercut? How do you throw your body? How do you do the twist? How do you place the camera? And it's my favorite art form of anything on the planet.

Host

You broke his neck in the Ogden River during filming.

SPEAKER_01

No, it's what happened. So I'll give you the clip of it for this. It's one of my favorite moments of filming. So he's there. He's the final guy I fight in the movie Hold the Pass, which is like for me playing basketball with Michael Jordan, like the dude that's trained you. Then you get to do an action scene with him, and I have the ox goat, and we're fighting, and there's there's 71 extras behind us as we're fighting. There's all the video village, there's all the production team, there's all these people that came to watch this fight on a snowy pass in Ogden Valley, and it's slippery and it's snowy, and we're doing the choreography. Then there's a cliff, and I get hit off the cliff, and that's my stunt double, Cyrus Lycey, who's one of my favorite people on the planet. He flew off that cliff. First send, full send off. Well, then I pick it up at the bottom, and then we go into this fight. And the the the goal is it's so it's 15 degrees outside, and the sun's going down, and we're we're losing lighting to get this shot. The water should be frozen, but it's moving. So there's frozen pieces on it. It's beautiful in the cinematography. He's in there, so we've choreographed how to do this, and he's so cold. As soon as we're done filming, we're stripping his clothes off down to his underwear, putting warmer blankets, and we're gonna spoon him because we have like a mile to hike out. And he is, dude, he can hold his breath. He's like forever, he's a monster. So I get him boom, and the part of the thing is I break his neck, punch him, kill him, and get out. Well, I'm I'm fighting him and holding him. He's fighting me. He's been underwater now for like 45 seconds and it's freezing. And worse, I have not heard the director say cut, and he's there and I pull him out of the water because you're not supposed to stop until the director says cut. But I'm like, Are you dead? And he's like, hey, hey, all right, so we're still in it. So I'm like, oh, good, dude. I'm are you okay? Yeah, I'm still okay. Come on, man, stay in it. And I'm like, Oh my gosh, I thought you were dead. And he's like, All right, all right, so do this punch me right here, bring me down, break my neck. Okay, go. And he's that level of intense. And I'm like, okay, all right, ready? And I pull him up, boom, and I hit him on the side of the face, he snaps his head back and goes in the water, and you hear it, and my character gets over him and the eyes turn, snap, and I killed the main guy. And then I walk back up. It's my favorite, oh my gosh, it's my favorite moment. So we finish it. Directors cut, strip him down, get him, and he's like, I had a turnout, man. He's not complaining about how cold he is. He's shivering. We get all the way, it's cold. I had my heater on my car the whole drive home. It was a 30-minute drive back to our stank. Heater, butt heater, everything. I couldn't warm up. It was the best moment of filming of probably in my career to this point. That's awesome.

Host

Yeah. Yeah, that uh just watching you talk about that fight scene and and how passionate you are. Like, I'm really excited to see. I haven't seen that film, so I'm actually gonna go watch it. And then I'm I'm just excited for the work because I I've gotten to know you over the past couple months, and you know, just listening to your story, you don't do anything that's that's half-cocked. And so I'm I'm excited to see you be a disruptor in in the film industry. I mean, I I think that's that's gonna be cool. What specifically do you think that you fell in love with about acting?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I think any guy can relate if you played like G.I. Joe's as a kid, or if you ever saw a broomstick and thought it could be a machine gun or a sword. And it it's a thing C.S. Lewis talked about where most men surrender the easiest to the enemy, and it's their imagination. And I think the imagination is one of the greatest gifts that we've been given. And I get to use that as an actor. And I get to go to places like I have a movie coming out soon called Savage, and I was the lead of Savage. It's this former special forces guy that gets caught in a wrong way and needs to make money for as well. It's such a fun movie. It's if you like 90s action, that's what it's like we pay homage to it. But it's it feels like you're watching these Stallone Arnold 90s style movies of like not special effects, we're gonna snap your arm, we're gonna take the bad guy, shoot him in the head, and we're gonna fight huge epic, like fight club style fights, and that's what the film is. And it's and I gotta be that guy for that entire time of filming, and it was fun, and we there was one scene I was with with it was about three and a half minutes total of a fight scene, which is kind of long in a movie, and he's a pro wrestler, and we just beat the tar out of each other, and you're laughing at the end of it, and you're having so much fun. And in Savage, there's this one dude where I take him and we're wrestling on concrete, and I get him in a ground and pound and just pound his skull in. Blood's everywhere, and he's you want this guy to die. Well, it's so fun. He's like a dear friend of mine, and we're just like, I'm literally like up, it's like one or two a.m. I'm so exhausted afterward. I'm laying on him, just we're laughing together. The director's like, all right, let's get ready to go again. You pull up and you're wrestling, going through the fight, choreography, you're having the time of your life bringing a story to film and to people that are gonna be watching it that you're gonna be really proud of. Of like, I love action movies, and I want to be a part of that. But I love bringing a story to life. I love storytelling, and that's what acting is.

Host

That's awesome, dude. You've had one of the, you know, you alluded to it when we were talking about the you know, the 365 devotional, but yeah, you've I mean you've had a low point in your acting career, yeah, and you know, you're building back up from that. What did you learn about that failure?

SPEAKER_01

Uh that's a good question. So many times as a man, I've identified with my performance. And what I've learned that changed my life is if I identify with my performance, I'm constantly gonna be searching for the next battle to win so I can feel better about who I am. And acting will teach you really fast. You lose so much in the acting arena. You get a phone call from your agent and you're excited, and you got an audition based on your representation. I mean, I have an amazing agent, I have an amazing manager in Hollywood, and to get an audition is so freaking hard. Then once you get that audition, you get to hopefully impress that casting director. But sometimes that casting director is just doing auditions because they have to hit a quota for the union and they already have the actor in mind. So you're literally memorizing eight pages, 11 pages for nothing, unless your mind is focused on preparation. But sometimes you get those auditions and it's like, oh my gosh, this is a skydance movie. This is a co-lead in a sky dance movie that could change my entire career, pay my house off. Okay, cool, let's go for it. You pour your heart and soul into it, you bring those big moments, bring those small moments, and then you get an email that's like, hey, they loved you. We're gonna go to the next level. Then you go to that next level and you're like, oh my gosh, this is becoming more of a reality. Go to that next level. You do the callback and they send an email back, hey, you're in the top five, you're actually pinned, you're one of our top selects for this. You're like, oh my gosh, one phone call could change my life. This could be it, and you never hear anything again. And the acting business is brutal because they don't let you know. They don't call you and tell you, oh, I'm so sorry. It's different than everything of like any business I've ever seen or any profession. Because when you get that close, the only way you hear is if you get it. And this last year, 2025, for me, I had 10 films, series that would have changed my entire life and career financially, career-wise. And I tend that I made it to the final running in and never heard back on. And when I went into the pit was 2024 when I started to realize how truly impossible a lot of this was. Like Savage that I got, it's just because the director saw me, he had all these submissions, had to shut it down, and he's like, That's Frank Savage. That's the only reason I got. I mean, you talk about God opening a door, and me and that director become like great friends. Any action role for a lead, you're going up against the tens of thousands of people, the best of the best of training. They all want it, and then more than likely, there's about 20 famous people that could just step in and take it from you if they want it. So it pushed me into a place to where my identity couldn't be based on my performance, but it needed to be found in Christ. But I was following Christ fully, and then I have a family, a wife, and kids, and I'm following Christ fully, and now I'm starting to see financial tightness start to happen. We're not landing those jobs. Book sales are amazing, but you're investing into a company and you're making money, and you're you're now like, oh, I don't know if I'm gonna make it. And vulnerability. You want to have a hard conversation in your family, sit down with your wife and kids and say, I don't know if we're gonna be able to stay in this house. And you go in and you crush an audition, you crush that call back, and your kids are like, How'd it go, Dad? You're like, Oh my gosh, it went so good. Hopefully that changes my life. I mean, you don't say that to them, but and you never hear back. And the opportunity to make all that money to help steward and provide a good life for your family goes away, and they have no mercy on your soul. And I'd come to God saying, You're the king of everything. Why aren't you opening these doors for me? Because I'm a good steward with money. Can you please you've called me to acting, I'll quit in one second if you want me to, but why aren't these doors opening if you've called me into this arena? And it was in that point I wrote my first movie, and it's the best writing of my career. And in that, all of that disappointment, while I was writing Soul Code Warning 365, I was writing my first screenplay, and I was writing the screenplay, and I was going through the process, and I was like, oh man, and I didn't want to do it, but I fell in love with the writing of movies. Because in a movie, if you start to think about your life like a movie, in a movie, everything has a purpose, everything is set there intentionally by the person, the whether it's the set deck with the the wardrobe, what you have on, it's all intentional for the story of the movie. And I started to see my life like that with God. Of every great movie, if it was just easy, it would be a boring Hallmark movie. But even Hallmark Christmas movies, which I do like to watch sometimes with my wife and kids. I have a good friend, Jesse Hutch. He's the lead actor of them, and he's a damn good actor, and I love him.

Host

But I'll watch those, but my wife really loves them.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. But they have small conflict, right? Small conflict. But a really big movie has big conflict, and it's just, and you to connect to a really good story, you need conflict in that story. You need the feeling of desperation. You need that moment, and that's how God gets glory when he writes our stories. So I started to understand as I wrote my first screenplay, and I started to really see a calling, I believe, God placed on my life about two years ago, and I started to answer that calling and developing a studio that could be like how Sly did it with Rambo and Rocky, but create an entire movement for the masculine soul where we create Hollywood level films, but don't have to bow down to the idols that have been established inside of Hollywood.

Host

Yeah, and I know you're you're getting your studio up and running, and that's going to be a process, and you're still auditioning and you know, you still have some things going on. Your agent and your manager know that you don't take certain projects. What are your rules?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So I on film I cuss, kill, and kiss, and I'm totally great with that. I love all of those things to be able to tell a great story, but I will not take a role that will dishonor my grandkids and dishonor my family. So I want my kids to watch and enjoy and understand all the films I do. They've seen in Savage, I rescue the girl and kiss her. They've seen it, they understand the part of acting, and that girl knows my wife and kids, and she's an amazing human being, and there was nothing there. And it's it's part of that for me. So my agent manager. So the thing about me, I'm a 40-year-old man that's built and is ruggedly handsome in the category of an actor. Well, Hollywood once, if you're gonna make it, either either you're gonna be gay for a while, yeah, right? And you're gonna be gay for a while, um, or you're gonna show some explicit sex side, or you're gonna pay your dues uh to make it. And I'll pay my dues through hard work, and that's awesome. Like I want to work in Hollywood and do that. My the film studio I'm launching, I want to exist in that space and let God be glorified through it. Unapologetically, making films that have ferocity of a lion and that is a gladiator in the content arena that is creating content for the masculine soul. I love what they did with John Wick. You're gonna kill a dude's puppy, and then the whole thing is about justice from that point forward. That is the coolest concept ever. Like, every guy's like, Oh, you killed his dog that he got from his dead wife. So if you can. Create something with a heavenly purpose behind it, and then you can create a movement of people that are passionate about what you're doing. That's what I68 Studios is.

Host

I mean, I remember you told me you got pretty close to getting the lead. It was a special forces role. Obviously, we can't talk about the movie or whatever, but you know, it was you got offered something, it was good money. You read the script and it was X-rated. You said no after all, all that work. How hard was that for you?

SPEAKER_01

Sucked. It sucked so bad. So it was uh when I auditioned for it and went for it, it was a different storyline. And when I came back to it and the producer reached out to me and made the offer, he's like, Oh, and there's some changes that were made. So it was like this former special forces guy, cool story, great story. But now when I saw the script, it was his dark past that he's fighting through has become manifested in dark sexual hunger. And like I could barely read it and I declined it. But something I I learned in the process that the no's we say to good opportunities define our destinies more than the yeses that we say to good opportunities. Because when we say when we have the balls to say no to a good opportun opportunity, it leaves space for the yes for the God opportunities in our lives. And it's not easy to say no to something that could be really good.

Host

Yeah, you told me something, and I I remember when I was going back to prepare for this podcast, you said and actually wrote it down here, you said I'd rather fail where God has me than succeed where my talent could take me.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

And I thought that was very unique, man. I think it's really cool to see somebody, at least in Hollywood, man, have a set of morals. There's been a couple out there, um, and they've paid a price. Jim Cavizel and I can't think of the guy that was in Saving uh Band of Brothers, an older guy, lead role, but he's done a couple Christian movies, but he's got a similar thing. I think he's Catholic and similar to you, doesn't you know want to do anything that would dishonor his wife? And I I think that's honorable, man. Yeah. Um and I think it's cool, man. I I think it's I mean, you can live in both worlds, right? Like you can still have your morals, convictions, values, your faith. You don't have to sacrifice that because you want to do, you know, to be an actor. And yeah, I think that's that's honorable. Uh, you told me an actor's job is to fail 99% of the time. Explain that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So as an actor, you know, failure is actually it's probably 100%. Because even if you get the job as an actor, you're gonna go to that set and you're going to perform it, but you're not the leader of the story. You have to submit to authority. And there's been times where I performed the lights out of something and I was really proud out of it. And the director came up and said, Hey, can you try it actually like this? Like, did you not see the Oscar winning performance I just gave? Like, why are you asking for something I was getting at? Yeah. But it is the ability to be prideless with your performance and be a hundred percent committed to excellence in that process. And you're going to bring a concept idea, but there's great moments of film where you're that's where they have a role called a scripty on a film set. It's somebody that's watching all the lines of the script. So if we're in a great heated moment and I forget my line, it's not about me knowing that line exactly, but it's staying in the moment. And I can say line, and they'll read that line to me. We pause, and then I say that line, and they can just cut it together to where it's it's there, but I have to keep the emotion. So you will miss choreography, you will make a hundred percent you're guaranteed to make mistakes. You'll you'll audition for things you think you're perfect for. I had a recurring role on with Stallone, I thought I was perfect for, crushed everything, didn't get it with Tulsa King. And I was really sad. But I just have to remind myself that winners hate losing, and you can't be a winner until you learn to hate losing. And I I think the hunger to win comes from the hatred to lose.

Host

Yeah, you and I talked about this last night, man. I mean, a lot of people they see your success sometimes in life at whatever, but they don't realize what you sacrificed to get there. Yep. And I think that's it's really cool to hear this part of the story of, you know, look, man, like, you know, you're your your book's still being written, you're you're in your life. You know what I mean? And it's cool, you know, every day you get this opportunity to write a new page and you get to decide, you know. And again, man, I mean, I think there's a lot of highs and lows in the entertainment industry, which oh bad, you know, podcasting's no different. And there's been a lot of highs and lows since I started this, but it's cool to hear a perseverance story uh that you're not getting up and that you know, hey, look, man, if I can't get these things, then I'm gonna build the thing and I'll build it on my I'll build it by my damn self, bro. And I and I love that. I I love that about your personality. You and I have had a lot of talks uh off the camera just about, you know, uh you've encouraged me personally uh about some things, and it's it's cool, and I can tell because I think I I told you last night, like even in the podcast industry and in the veteran community, I mean, there's not tons of people that are knocking themselves out to help other people out. And you know, I can tell that you've been through a lot and you're still like a giving, caring person, and I try to be the same, right? Like, yeah, and I'm excited to see you, you know, get these wins. Thank you. You had a movie that William Kaufman offered you a lead role in. It was called The Mission. Yeah, come on, Will, let's do it. It was a super great. The screen, the screenplay writer died. You think there's there's still a chance?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, Will, let's do it.

Host

Let's go, Will. Let's go, Will. Let's make that movie. Will yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Will's one of my favorite dudes, brilliant director. He can tell like uh military stories better than most people alive, and he's good, man. So yeah, I I would 100% take that without question. There's there's a lot of things I'm read the script, talk about, but he's a guy. He's like, hey man, it's up and running. I'm in.

Host

Yeah, Will Will Will made the channel, which was just a great movie. So good. And Osiris was pretty good as well. Um, great, great, great, talented director, man. Yeah, super talented. So you've been working on a movie for a while in your own script that you're working to bring to life. Can you tell the people a little bit about what's going on?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So through that time, you know, just the acting process and really navigating what type of story would I want to come from my heart and to experience in theaters? Like, is there a gladiator, all of my favorite films combined, but could I do it with a heavenly purpose behind it? And it's where I have my screenplay, which if you anybody's ever written a screenplay or thought about it, it's way harder than writing a book. You have to write scene by scene, and every character has to have a purpose in the story. Every single plot needs a theme. Everything everything needs to work together to fit inside of less than a hundred pages. It's 113 right now. I need to shrink it down to less than a hundred pages of impactful story.

Host

That's why less than why is 100 the magic number?

SPEAKER_01

So, especially great question, especially for an action film. It's usually a page a minute on screen. But when you add action, a lot of those pages are two or three minutes. Because like there's one part of Savage that we shot, which is like a third of the page, but it's three and a half minute fight scene. So you have to really allot for so you don't end up with Avatar works really well. I was literally just gonna bring that up. You just saw that.

Host

I'm like, man, that's the longest movie ever.

SPEAKER_01

It's a long movie and it it can work, but most people like 90 to 120 minutes, and Savage ended up being, you know, 87 minutes total in runtime, and it's great. You finish, you're like, that was really enjoyable. But right in the two hours is your sweet spot, 90 minutes. So that's what I did, and as I wrote through it, I would just prayed over every part of it, and I just had the thought of what would it look like if there was a a studio, a company, a for me, a podcast, movement of people. What if here's here's the deal with movies. Anybody doesn't know, before I answer that what if question you write a script, you need to sell it to a move movie studio. That studio is gonna take your script and come back to you and say either yes and then change these things, or they're not even gonna listen to you. So if you write a script, you have to bow down to that studio and hope they approve it with their money. That's how it works. Reminds me a lot of like Shadrach, Meshach, and Abendigo. And not all Hollywood is like this. There's some amazing people that work with big studios, but most studio company, if you are a Christian and you bring anything with Christian language to it, they're gonna say, Oh, we need to treat you as a write-off, and you're going to go compete in the toilet bowl, and we just want to see if we can make our money back from it. So that's how that works in the studio world. If I go to Netflix, HBO, and pitch them a script, if there's anything in Christian language, that it's gonna be a different ball game and conversation, and you need their money and you need their platform. So I wrote a film and designed a concept and an infrastructure and a Patreon and a podcast to say, what if that was different? What if a whole bunch of men like me and you stood up and paid six dollars and eighty cents a month, sixteen dollars and eighty cents a month on the I-68 system and theme, and we had a hundred thousand of us. What would Hollywood do with people that didn't have to ask for for permission? You can create movies, take them to theaters, you can buy theaters out. Mel Gibson showed us with Passion of Christ. You can change popular culture without changing the story and adding unnecessary things in if you have a movement of people behind you. So, one of the things the Lord put on my heart was to start a studio that is a movement of people, where you release a film and it's an event. So when I release this film and I'll talk a little bit about it, to theaters, look, we're gonna release a podcast, and the Patreon's actually open today when this airs. And guys can sign up and support it. And I'd be honored if you guys would to say what would it look like if we got a hundred thousand people? So imagine with me, a movie goes to theaters and there's a movement behind it. The media is covering it, and a whole bunch of people show up for this independent film across the country. And i68 is going to give 16.8% of net profit from every film that we do back to three categories. We're not have, I don't want to ask anybody for permission to give to the fight against human trafficking, to give to the veterans and first responders with their mental health and that process of recovery and restoration, and to give to global work of missions around the world. So you go to a movie and your ticket is saying, I not only support what this stands for, I'm a part of this movement, and we're giving back to help fight these areas and support these areas. You give that the first time and it's inspirational. You give that 10 years of work and it's unstoppable. And you and I know great movements that become unstoppable become very unpopular. And I think if you can do it, you can actually get people to say, How is this happening? And every man saying, I'm sick of the crap they're putting in these movies. I want to see really good movies with my family. I want grandkids to experience the cinema and be proud of what they're seeing. That's what I68 is. If you love good action movies, we're going to produce that for you on the Hollywood scale, not the toilet bowl, epic action movies. And that's what the script is. So the script is really cool. Break it down for you really fast. The story is about the bad guy trying to de-extinct the Nephilim's part of the Bible I'm really fascinated with. So if you can, if you've seen John Wick, it's kind of like John Wick or Jason Bourne meets Resident Evil or the Exorcist. So this process of violent, violent evil trying to de-extinct a bloodline and the demonic interception with human blood and bring that back. So there could be a reign and rule of true power and authority. So he's the bad guy. Then this dude struggling with PTSD and lost his family, struggling with alcohol, and he's the only thing he's ever been good at is being a weapon. Him and his team go try, they get sent on a mission and they they go to stop this doctor, and the doctor's always two steps ahead of them, and he kills most of the people on their team and they capture the main guy. And you get to see what happens as this transfusion happens, and you see the story of this guy trying to fight for the good that he wants, but he doesn't have the power to do it, and he's not really sure how to do it. So if you are a Christian and you watch it, you're gonna see these Easter eggs of crazy stories. But if you're a man that watches it, you're gonna be, oh, that's me. I I've struggled with depression, I've struggled with not feeling like I'm enough, I'm struggled with anger, intensity, unnecessary violence, losing parts of my family and restoration. And at the end of the day, my goal with every podcast, every film that we do is to inspire heroism in the hearts of everybody that watches it. And I think we're gonna see a movement that changes a part of popular culture, and I want every guy to join me with it. It's inspiring, dude. Thanks, bro. Why i68? Yeah. Oh, so cool. So there's a company called A24. There's a lot of cool studio companies out there. I have no idea what A24 stands for. I've almost been in a couple of their movies. But I68 will be a studio company, and then anybody that knows, it's one of my, especially in the military, it's one of my you know, probably our favorite verse for anybody that was in the military of here I am, send me. And it's my favorite, my favorite story in the Bible. Isaiah, in the time of King Uzziah, he sees God and he sees how holy he is, and he falls on his face and he's like, I'm such a wretched man. And God's like, All right, so I got a mission. And Isaiah's like, hey, here I am, send me. And I want guys to stand up with that level of intensity to say, here I am, send me into the dark of this world, starting with the dark that I tolerate in my own personal life, and let's go out and inspire change globally and and hopefully live the heroic life that we're destined to live. How do how do how do folks find the Patreon account? What's yeah, it's just I look up i68 on Patreon, look up on social media. It just launched today. So they can find it anywhere there and they can join. And man, I'd be honored. There's four tiers in it, and we're going to, you know, our aim is in fall later this year, so fall 2026. We're gonna go into production of the first film, and it's you know, the weapon, and you guys are gonna see all the behind the scenes of that. The develop we're in development right now on it. And we're gonna tell a story with a movement, but the podcast starts too, where we're gonna it's you know, interview, talk about action movies, inspirational stories like your life and why our world needs to be inspired to heroism.

Host

So I love that. We'll we'll uh if you're listening to this on Spotify or iTunes, we'll have it in the description, and then if you're watching this on YouTube, it'll be in the description as well. So we're we're super excited that to to I'm watching just excited to watch this thing take take take life and take flight. Anything else we missed on on that? No. No, I think that's it. I wanted to dive in to the last part. You you have a pretty solid marriage, dude. I'm I'm sure like everybody, you guys have been through your highs and your lows. Guys that have you know been married, especially and have kids always like to talk about that success. It's also something, you know, and we live in a society now where everybody's getting divorced and marriages don't last, and you know, you can have a problem with your wife, get divorced, go run to tender. So I'd love to talk. You talk a lot about your wife. Um and I'd love to just explore that. You're coming up on 19 years of marriage. I think I asked you when the podcast first started, you know, what's the secret to that? One of the things that you told me, you know, when we were podcast prepping and other podcasters you've been on is, you know, prior to your wife, you couldn't be faithful to a girl to save your life. Yeah, you found Christ. And how did that change?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, great question. It's that longing to be good. And I found the source of good, and I no longer was asking to be a good person because I found the one that was. And from that point forward, I knew it was no longer about me being good, but it was about me knowing the one that is and being loved and accepted by him. And from there, a man can do anything. And when you know as a man from the Lord who you are and that he'll never leave you or forsake you, it's the what Rach Kazakh is, the ancient Hebrew war cry. Be strong, it's from Joshua 1.9. It's actually the third time in Joshua he said it. It's Kazakh e Amats from the original translation, it'll be strong and courageous, but they turned it into a war cry, Rach Kazakh, be strong and courageous, because the Lord God, He's with you. He's never gonna leave you or forsake you. So stop being a sissy and go forward. But when you realize that God's not gonna leave you or forsake you, and he loves you just as you are, and he sees every part of you, it gives you the enthusiasm to take on anything. But when you have a marriage built on that same level of unconditional love, there's nothing you won't fight through for that. And I love action movies where they fight to be the hero. What what what's it typically for? To stand against evil and save the woman. We need heroes to rise up again. There's no greater fight on this planet than a man fighting for the woman that he loves. Start there. We need to bring back the heroic battle for that. I asked a missionary that was in the Middle East, I said, Hey, crazy area, wild stories he had. That's the hardest population on the planet to share Jesus with. I said, How'd you do it? What's your secret? I was expecting a really profound answer. And he said, A healthy family. And he said, if you have a healthy family anywhere in the world, people will ask, How do you do it? I want to inspire everybody around the world. And let me tell you, so we're coming up on 20 years. July will be 20 years. It's the single hardest thing I've ever done is to have a healthy marriage. It's the single hardest thing because it takes me having the courage to be vulnerable, not just once, not just in the time that we do marriage counseling, every single day, not have bravado. I think the pornography world would be demolished if men really understood how great sex is inside of a marriage that is worshiping God. It's fun, it's exciting, it's satisfying, it's what your soul was created for, but it takes vulnerability from a man to learn his wife, to communicate what he needs, and to fight through what he's done wrong because we've all screwed up. So it's to fight through that. And we have an amazing marriage today, just like somebody you see that's like our age with a really fit body. All of us know you could do that at 18 and still eat like crap. But when you're in your 40s and you're totally fit, you work for it. You're there's no longer just like good genetics, get you work your butt off for that. And because you're fighting a lot of things as you age. But when you see a marriage that's strong, they've put in the work. And we put in the work, but it starts with vulnerability. And I say always, my best parenting advice that I could ever give is constantly ask forgiveness with your kids. Kid that sees a dad asking them for forgiveness is a kid that will not hide in shame when they sin. And a marriage, a strong marriage, is uh is done, and and most of the time, most of the time, now that this is parenting is easier with forgiveness, most of the time, is when a man has the courage to be constantly vulnerable with his wife. Because true strength is vulnerability. True strength is not bravado and picking yourself up by your bootstraps and going out.

Host

It's vulnerability. Seven years in, you guys had a crisis. You were pretty much told by a marriage counselor you had an emotional affair with your work.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

Host

What happened? That sucked.

SPEAKER_01

I came home and it was the first time we have a we're we have a rule, we don't talk about divorce, we never threaten it. We came home and what wasn't a threat. My wife looked at me and said, I'm ready for a divorce. I am too. And uh we prayed.

SPEAKER_02

And uh we went to marriage counseling.

SPEAKER_01

And I said, I'm not gonna just bow down to this. This is what happened in my family. Yeah, seven or eight, my parents got divorced, and that's what I grew up in. My marriage is worth fighting for, therefore, I'm going to fight. How do I need to fight? First, I need to pray. I need to pray with my wife. And I wanted to throw her out the window. We prayed. And my wife has never had anything to fear with me. But we prayed. I joke about throwing out the window, but that's what I wanted. Like, you know, just get through it. But I know people on social media can take that video and do it. But but but I but I need them to continue listening to the story. We prayed. Nothing I I didn't feel God's presence. I didn't feel anything magnificent happen in that moment. Then we found a marriage counselor and we committed to work through it. And that marriage counselor said, Cody, you're having an emotional affair with work. And it was the first time in my life I realized that I was worshiping the work that I was doing. And I was becoming a slave to my career and being successful. And this was after the military of like fighting to get ahead, and I'm literally I'm Going to college at night school and I'm working and I'm writing and I'm creating and I'm working my guts out in attempts to be a good person, right? Like, so it's this constant thing of like, I want to, I want to be a good husband, I want to be present, I want to provide. And I realized that I had an emotional affair with work. And I feel like when men hear that, a lot of them are saying, Oh, I'm I'm there. Where you what happens with an emotional affair with work is you get more excited about the challenges that you're facing at work than the conversations that you have at home with your spouse, and that never ends well because you should be, as a man, excited about the relationship you have inside of your house more than you are about what's happening and the adventures outside of your house. And I there's a really sad trend that I see on social media of like, why does my husband smile like this when he's with me and then like this when he's fishing? And you actually see I'm an actor, you have 8,000 different expressions you can do with your face. You see genuine excitement of a man with a fish and not with his wife. I decided to change that. And I was more excited to be with my wife and kids than I was develop a successful career. So the reason why we fought through that and made it is the strength of God and the commitment to persevere through that and realize that I think when every man comes to her wife and says I'm gonna be vulnerable, you don't have to say it's all my fault, but you're willing to say, I'm gonna take ownership for the things that I've screwed up with. Let's work on it.

Host

To that dude that's struggling in his marriage right now for whatever reason. Yeah. Will you speak to him? I'm sorry. I hate it.

SPEAKER_01

It breaks my heart. But uh here's the deal don't give up. I've learned that God can move any mountain, and that mountain moves in his time. Pray for your wife first. Pray and know that God will never leave you in that journey. And there's always hope for him to redeem, and the hope is a name, and it's Jesus. So it's one of the fights I see, and I tell guys all the time, this is a winnable war. Guys talk to me about pornography, and like, I'm gonna always be addicted to it. I said, No, it's winnable. My marriage is in shambles, bro. We haven't had sex in years. Like, I don't even like her anymore. It's a winnable war. Like, do you want to fight for what matters, or do you want to fight for things that will fade and never satiate your soul? I want my kids to look at dad and say, that was a man that fought for what mattered. I don't, I don't give a shit what the whole world says about me. If my kids hate me, like I want people, I want my kids to be around my deathbed and be like, yes, he's going home. Like he did what he wanted to do. He's finished, and I see it in his eyes. He's ready to go. My dad finished his race and he's going home. I love that, dude. Thanks, bro.

Host

When God called you to acting, Haley Bobet, your wife, who is an amazing actress in her own right. So go follow her if you guys can. Yeah. Amazing. When when you when you told her, Hey, we're gonna act, she didn't hesitate and said, Let's do it. Yeah. Why why was she so so confident?

SPEAKER_01

Well, she's a brilliant performer, she's a brilliant actor. She actually went to school for Oklahoma City University, one of the best schools in the country. That's where Christian Chennewith went. I mean, my wife can sing and perform better. I was with her when she sang to us the national anthem to a sold-out arena in Oklahoma City Thunder Game. They're playing the Bulls. That woman is more talented than most humans I've ever been around. So she has the performance side. It was so vulnerable for me to tell her what I felt like God just told me because she knows acting and is brilliant at it, has done musical theater. And man, she gets on set and she's right at home. And a director can ask her to do 15 different takes and all these. She, she, her and my son have like photographic memories. I have a really strong long-term memory, but it takes me a while to get there where they can memorize it fast and perform. And it's where my family, I see them, the passion ignites. My son's actually in Austin today doing a fitting for a commercial. He landed, and I watch him land commercials, and he's up for a big film as the lead, a Hollywood film right now. He's just submitted his audition over the break, and Christmas, New Year's break. He's such a performer, but he watches me and I share with him and why I won't take certain things, why my relationship with the Lord is the most important thing. Because he might remember what I say, but he'll never forget what I do. Amen. And my wife and I ex and try to exemplify that with acting and decisions, and he'll see the disappointment. And the Lord has been really clear for me to share disappointments with our kids. We talked about that last night of just sharing it with your family of disappointments and setbacks and failures. Because if you if you never learn how bad losing sucks, this is why people joke about it, but participation trophies are such a cancer inside the adult and the young soul. Because you have to learn how bad losing sucks before you can appreciate how to steward winning.

Host

It also takes away from those that worked really hard to win.

SPEAKER_01

Yes. Like really hard. Winning is so hard. So when you get those chances, you want to celebrate it. And then you have to prepare for the next.

Host

Yeah, one of the things that's interesting about this part of the conversation, too. I mean, you're both auditioning, you're both facing rejection, you're both dreaming. Yeah. Is that harder on your marriage or does that bond you guys?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, both. Yeah, great question. It's it's so hard sometimes when you're both actors. And like I got a call from a producer about a show that I'm in the final running for in April May. And I got off the phone, I was talking to my wife, and all of a sudden, my wife, I saw sadness in her eyes. So when you're sometimes you're you're she's my biggest fan, I'm her biggest fan. But when you're trying to win and somebody else wins, your immediate action is can be sadness and the feeling of like, dang, I wish that was me right now. And you have those moments, but it's hard, man. It's it's hard when you're both in that same arena and you're going for it. She has a huge audition right now for a big show out in Atlanta. She might get it, and I want her to get it. But when you're both in that arena together, it gets really, really hard.

Host

Yeah, throw some kids in there. That's perfect recipe. Oh man, yeah. Yeah, it's it's really hard. You've brought your kids up with a certain tenacity and this fervor for life. You're very honest and vulnerable with your kids. You've talked about that a lot. What is what is parenting in today's world, especially with you know you and your wife both being involved in acting and and your kids are acting? Uh, we haven't really talked about that. Yeah, what's that like?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, so it's it's something that we all know. Every man knows that they will possibly remember what we talked about earlier, what you say. They're going to remember what you do. And there's an African proverb that says, if you want to go fall, if sorry, there's an African proverb that says if you want to go fast, go alone. If you want to go far, go together. And that is so powerful with a family. If you want a family that's going to go far, you've got to go together. And what does going together look like? Let's break it down really practically. If I want to go on a trip to Florida by myself, I put on AirPods, I get on a plane, I tune everything out, I watch an action movie, I land, get a rental car, and I go experience the beach. What does it look like with kids and your wife? You got you you you got to think about their snacks and their wants and their programs and their shows and their sleep and their comfort and their enjoyment. And you you have to think about so much more than yourself, it slows everything down. But in that process, I've learned you live an example for them, you teach them, you show them, you go through it with them. Where one of my buddies, he's a former SEO, Ray Kerr says that every we we we need to make a mission for our minutes. And every minute with your kids needs that mission behind it. So if you look at your minutes with your kids like bullets, you you make sure that everyone is aimed at the target that you want to be hitting and accomplishing. We have too many guys that are like, oh, I'll do it later. I'll just go home and I'll scroll on my phone and I'll do this and I'm gonna go out.

Host

I'm guilty, man. I can't tell you how many times I've gone to bed. Like, man, I could have done better today. I could have spent more time, I could have spent more meaningful, more impactful time with my son, with my daughter. Yeah. Because what do people want?

SPEAKER_01

So I'm I'm just as guilty. I don't want anybody to think, oh, Cody hasn't figured out. I'm gonna tell you, I don't. But the thing that I have is the ability to get back up again and keep trying. So when I have those days when I screw up, I the fundamental side of a human being is they want to be heard. That's what this podcast does. It allows people to be heard. Your kids want to be heard, they don't want to be taught all the time. So any dad listening, listen to your kids. Don't be like, oh man, come on. When I was a kid, it was you don't have no idea how hard it was. You guys have any no, listen, empathetically listen. Because if you do that to me and we're grown men, I'm like, go take a hike. Your kids want to be understood and they want to be understood where they're at, and then they want to be encouraged, and then they want questions answered. And I found the best way to teach a kid a Bible and a biblical worldview for me is by answering the questions they have along the way, not sitting in my room, my living room, teaching a sermon to them. They don't remember those sermons, but they do remember, hey dad, I have a question about this. What does the Bible say about it? You're going forward and you're at you're seeing things, you're seeing historical things, you're seeing just life, you're you're seeing questionable things on TV and they ask you that question, but what what do they know with dad? Every day they wake up, they're gonna walk in the living room when I'm home and they're gonna see dad awake before them, having coffee, reading my Bible, journaling. They're gonna know the rest of their life, they see this man pursuing an invisible God that sees the tangible, you see it in my life, God's tangible hand of blessing around me. Even though it's not financial sometimes, it you see that family say it's a blessed family. You want your kids to see consistency in you. And when you speak, they want to know what you have to say and they respect it. So that's tricky because we got to live it.

Host

Yeah, you told me a story. I mean, uh, hopefully you don't mind I share it, but you know, your your your son, who you're very close to, ADHD, dyslexia, super smart, overactive brain. Yeah, you had a really bad thunder and lightning storm, and it scared him, and he came in your your room at you know two o'clock in the morning. How did you handle that? I think this is really important.

SPEAKER_01

I I know the answer, but I'm not sure which story I told you at that, but there's times where I just have got pissed. And I I want him to be something that he's not, and that sometimes I've handled it really well. Sometimes I handled it really poorly. Let me talk about the time I handled it poorly. I got really pissed and made him feel ashamed for being scared. And I set up a thing on my floor because I don't let my kids sleep in my bed. I feel like that's one fundamental for married couples. They they they sh they need to keep their marriage bed for them. The moment you allow kids to constantly sleep inside your bed is the moment sex becomes maybe a later thing, and the fastest way to destroy a man and a marriage is sex and money. So protect those things very carefully. But I made him feel really bad, and he's the sweetest kid in the world. He was scared. And the Lord gave me a picture of how kind he is with me when I'm scared. And I sat with my son the next morning and I apologized to him. I said, Hey bud, will you forgive me? I'm sorry. Dad gets scared a lot. I'm gonna tell you about a time recently I was scared. He's like, You get scared? Like, yeah, bud, I get scared. It's not a lightning, but life has a whole bunch of monsters that come out. And he's like, Oh, okay, cool. You're strong and you get scared, so I'm strong, right? Yeah, you're strong. So I think it's the constant asking for forgiveness when you see a little dude that's you're irritated because he's interrupting your precious sleep time, whatever. But I didn't handle that time wrong, so I'm not sure what time we talked about. But there's other times where I handled it really well and it was super kind. But I feel like parenting is a constant story of needing forgiveness and guiding with your life, the purpose and direction you want that kid to go, because eventually we're gonna die. And this life is so freaking hard. Hopefully, they can remember a few things we did right.

Host

Hopefully.

SPEAKER_01

Hopefully.

Host

Your son needs to learn how to become a man by you. I mean, that's I I think that's super important, especially with fathers with sons, especially. I mean, daughters is a whole separate conversation. Yeah, but why is that so important? And that's not a task you can delegate to other people.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. So I I see that a lot inside the American Christian Church where dads think they can delegate the discipleship of their kids to the youth pastors and the church curriculum and the the student programs, but your son will have one biological dad. And the moment that biological dad makes a decision to be an impactful father, you see that son as you can help him become better, stronger, and more effective than you've ever been in your life. And it's not gonna be through sharing your successes with him, it's gonna be through sharing your failures and weaknesses, and you're gonna share with that kid of buddy, there's nothing you can tell me that I probably haven't done or thought about doing. So we have a thing with my son called steak and sex, and I recommend any guy with kids going to puberty with a boy to have these moments. We take them out for a steak dinner, and it's a guy date, and we'll go see a movie after whatever. But when we have that steak, mom and sister aren't around, and you can ask me any question you have about sex in that. And it allows and it cultivates for him an atmosphere to be able to come ask me and say, Hey, my dad is on my side. Because I say this ever since I've written books to the masculine soul inside churches, I can tell how you interact with the Heavenly Father and how strong your relationship is by how you handle failure. If you run and hide, you don't know God's heart. If you run and confide in God's presence, you get God's heart. When you run and say, Dad crap, can you help me? You get his heart. But maybe you had a terrible upbringing, and maybe you you don't have a picture of the Heavenly Father, who he really is. Or maybe you didn't have a father. Maybe you didn't have a father. But when you realize he's a perfect, good father, and you can run to him and sit with him, and he's not gonna abuse you, and he's not going to shame you. He's gonna sit with you, love you, empower you, and say, Hey, that's why I sent my son to die on a cross, so you can live and be forgiven. So stand up, warrior. You got this.

Host

Empowering youth pastors versus you know, you doing it. Yeah. What's your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01

Both have to exist. It takes a village to raise a family, and I can't do it alone. So I have to be aware. I'm friends with my son's youth pastor. I have to be aware of what he's teaching my son. That's okay if he's not teaching things that I biblically align with, as long as my son is being discipled by me. If I die on my way home today, God's gonna hold me accountable for the discipleship of my son. How am I doing with that? What's his biblical literacy? I'm shocked. I give my kids' friends a ride to certain places and I'll just ask them Bible questions. Like I'm I'm a nerd with history and information. I'm gonna ask some questions. Some of them know the answers, and some of them have no idea. And I've spoken to a couple youth conferences and youth groups. I don't like doing it. I barely like people. It's really hard to like other people's kids. Like, that's a hard demographic. But I really love uh making sure the man is aware. He's not the Al Bundy that is being forced to go to church. The man is he's stewarding everything in his life because I think a vigilant man is learning to be a successful husband and dad to say, yeah, whether you believe it or not, demons are real. Angels are real, God is real, hell is real, and those demons will hunt you. And I've never, bro, I've talked with guys all over the world like you have. I've never met one person that doesn't believe in demons. Never. We'll all agree on demons. We all agree on angels, but the moment you start talking about Jesus and there's one way to heaven, then you can have some disagreements on it. But everybody believes in demons, and and those demons will hunt your ass. And if you're not careful, they're gonna hunt you and your family. And there's with a broken heart, I can tell you, I've been on the speaking circuit with dudes that I thought were the best dudes on the planet that are in jail the rest of their lives for things I never thought that they would commit sexually. I had no idea it was happening, and I'm a really good judge of character, but I can't see through the lies and the facade that you're putting on and you have in front of you. I I do not blindly trust anybody with my kids. So I want to know what they're learning. I want to know what they're I have to be intentional. And I think intentional parenting from a dad changes the culture, and instigating conversations is a very important thing. Your kids care way more about what they're going through than what you have to teach them.

Host

Such a yeah, that's a great point. How do you we you know, obviously, we've talked a lot about your son and we've talked about you know masculinity through this whole podcast, but yeah, what's it like raising a daughter? And how does that fit into your life? Because I know she's a big part of your life. We've talked about her about it.

SPEAKER_01

Oh my gosh, she is, I don't want to say it's easy, but I I was not raised with a female in my house. So I love my son like crazy. My daughter's like, if I'm not feeling like today before this podcast, she texted me and said, Hey dad, I'm praying for you. I hope it goes great. I'm sorry you have allergies. And like she's so attuned to what's going on in my life. It's not easy, it's way different. But you're you're raising somebody as a daughter where you have that intimate relationship where she I'm her best friend. That's what she thinks of me. And I remind her constantly, I'm not your best friend, I'm your dad. So when I take away things from you, when I discipline you, and when you talk to me, I'm not a 13-year-old best friend. But she's like, I don't care, you're my best friend. I'm like, good, I'm glad. But she had this boy that she was liking, and we have a conversation about it. And I always say, like, you want my blessing and mom's blessing on any relationship, and I want you guys to learn relationships, but you're not just gonna flippantly walk into you have a girlfriend or boyfriend now. That boy will have to get to know me, and I will have to say yes to that character. And I was a and I tell my kids, I was a 13-year-old that was an alcoholic that was starting to get blowjobs from girls at that age. I need you guys to understand what's out there. I'm not afraid for you. I'm gonna train and develop you, and I'm gonna help protect you. And that's what dads do. Dads are the shepherd of their family, they help shepherd to say, I'm gonna have a rod and a staff, I'm gonna discipline you, and I'm gonna break the neck of anything that comes close to you.

Host

How do you find the balance between helicoptering and you know, trying to keep them safe without being so overprotective that you push them towards the thing that you're trying to keep them from?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Oh, it's tough. It's never, it's it's always knowing you'll never find that perfect balance. Um, but it's instigating conversations. Your kids have to be comfortable with you to ask you really hard questions. So our kids will get done with youth group or get done with a social function and say, Oh my gosh, I want to tell you about that. I want to tell you about this boy I really like. My son will be like, Dad, I saw this girl and she's beautiful. I want to talk to you about her. So you have to have lines of communication open first, and then you have to have the authority as a dad that they respect. Because if they want to talk with you as a friend, I had friends like that in high school. Their parents would buy us beer and alcohol, and it's like I didn't respect them. Their par their kids didn't respect their parents. They were cool, but nobody respected them. You want your kids to have a level of respect for who you are, and then you know, I I just view it like I'm a shepherd. So my kids are cheap. They 13 and 14 years old have no idea the evil out in this world. You and I unfortunately do. Yeah. So I shepherd them to say, huh? Is it safe for me to just give them, hey, get on TikTok and do your own thing and do no? No, it's not safe for me and you to just scroll TikTok.

Host

No. I have screen time on my own phone because there's times I can't control social media. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01

It has to be targeted, it has to have purpose behind those minutes. And like, you know, like Ray said, the weaponized to make every minute a mission and have it be on purpose for your destiny. We have to teach that with our kids of like, you know, I have to do the work, and dads have to do the work. I have to learn Fortnite so I know, hey, is there a turd out there talking to my kids? I want my kids to be able to play Fortnite. Like, I think it's awesome. It's really fun. If guys, if you haven't play it and experience it, it's fun. But guys can talk to your kids if you don't change the settings. So I don't want a 55-year-old guy starting to groom my son because I would murder him. And I'd be in jail. So I think I think that's a really big understanding of like if you want to steward, it's going to take intentional focus, it's going to take intelligence, and you can't be lazy with it.

Host

Yeah, parenting is hard work, man. I mean, and it's it's rewarding if it's done right. And look, I've had some failures. That's probably the reason why my story's not totally available in the realm, uh, because of some of my parenting failures that are, you know, I'm still dealing with. And you know, I I think it's you know, but you're never too old to learn. And you know, to the to the dads out there that are that are struggling with with parenting, or you've made some mistakes, it's never too late to start over. The kids, kids need their dads, man. They need their dads, they need their moms and their dads, but you know, 96% of our audience is male. And you know, they need their dads, dude. They look up to you. You are your son. I don't care who you are, man. You're your son's superhero. Yep. You know, put the phone down, make time. We make time with for the things that are important to us. We do. Make time for your kids, man. It's important.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And ask them for forgiveness.

unknown

Yeah.

Host

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's shocking. They'll forgive.

Host

Well, kind of as we close out this this episode, you know, with some final thoughts. Yeah. One of the things you you also said was God's more concerned with the story than your feelings in the moment. How do you think you try to live that?

SPEAKER_01

Oh, that's really rough. Yeah. So one of my favorite poems is I love poetry, and it's Ecclesiastes. It's the final poem that King Solomon wrote before he died. It's in the Bible, it's 13 chapters, but it's written to be listened to. The Old Testament is written to be listened to. Because it wasn't a massive published book back then. A lot of times when you gather, you see it in the book of Nehemiah. People gather together to hear the priests read it. So it's it's listening to the Bible is a really cool experience because you hear and learn different with auditory learning than you do with the visual learning. But in that, my favorite poem, Ecclesiastes, for any guy to I want you to listen to it. It's brilliant writing from the richest guy to ever walk on the face of the earth. Had anything that he wanted. And he wrote in there that it's better to think about your day of death than it is house of celebration. It's better to think about the time that you're going to die than really trying to live and the house of laughter. So I think in our whole journey with life, if we can really understand for I think every guy, if you really think, how do I want people to talk about me once I'm gone? Because I can tell you about myself, but I learned fast in speaking to men. I don't care what you tell me. That's great. I want to see how you treat your wife. When you asked me to stay with you, I was like, Yeah, cool. I just want to see how you treat your wife. I want to see how you treat your kids. That tells a lot more than anything you could ever tell me about what you've accomplished by the way you treat your family. And you treat your family very honorably, you love them, you kiss your kids, and I saw that. Show me that and I'll give you grace for every mistake that you can make. But if you give me a whole bunch of bravado, then I see you're a dirt bag with your family. Those are gonna be the people I don't want a whole bunch of people at when I'm my deathbed when I'm dying. I want them to say, Man, that guy lived it. So I I think by thinking that your time is finite on this earth, you will die, and how you spend it is extremely important. Powerful, bro.

Host

Every meeting, every bit of time could be your last day, and you want to maximize every moment. That's something I've heard you say on more than one occasion. How do you actually live that? I mean, part of that seems exhausting, but part of that seems inspirational.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, thanks, man. Yeah, it's the it's the story, right? It's uh it's understanding that story that God is writing a story with your life, and it it's okay in Rocky that he had those hard times and had to sell his dog because we know the end of the story. It's okay to see Rocky Balboa lose a fight, but you know Rocky Four is coming. It's okay to see him go through the hell crucible of getting ready to fight Ivan Drago because we know the end of the story. And worse, God knows the end of the story. And sometimes we have to trust his hand as he writes the hard chapters just as much as when he writes the good chapters. And and I think understanding that part of life is one of the most important for men that just because you're having a bad chapter doesn't define who you are as a man, what you're capable of, or what your destiny will look like.

Host

Last advice to young Christian men growing up in this world, dude.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, a plea with them, like Paul did in Romans 2 chapter 12. I plead with you. Paul was pleading. One of the most intellectual minds of his time. A guy that died for his faith, got whipped with a catanine tails that's 39 times. He got whipped multiple times, he got stoned. They thought it was to death. He got shipwrecked, he got beat constantly for his faith, then eventually got his head cut off. And he said, I plead with you to offer your bodies to God as a living sacrifice because this is your spiritual act of worship. To every young man listening, and to every older man, I plead with you to offer your bodies a living sacrifice to God because that's your spiritual act of worship. And we do not need more men that are existing inside of a body taking up space and criticizing those of us that are in the arena, doing and trying and failing, and getting the blood-stained foreheads and sweat all over us and the tears in our eyes. We need men that will offer their bodies a living sacrifice and step into the arena and be gladiators alongside of us because I believe this is a winnable war. We need an army to fight it.

Host

I don't know that it could be said better, brother. Thanks, bro. Where can people find you? You've got all kinds of stuff going on. We're gonna have all the links, but I want people I want people to hear from you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I'd say the best way to kind of follow the story first, the i68 Patreon. That's gonna be so cool. I'd be honored for guys to join that. And even if it's six dollars and eighty cents a month, or the sixteen dollars and eighty cents, you get a sweet shirt with that. But that that would be number one. And number two is on social media. If they look me up on Instagram, I share a lot of my life on that, and you'll see and you'll follow along with a journey there to be able to see the books, the writing, the movies. And hopefully, my goal on 40. I want the next 45 years of my life to be intense battle to take back territory that I believe the storytelling world is the promised land. I want to take back a part of that. One of my favorite tattoos is what I have here. It says, we can certainly conquer it. Caleb said that in Numbers 1330. He was 40 years old. When he was 85, he got commissioned to go get that land called Hebron. It was in the promised land, and it was it's one of my favorite stories. He's 85. He talks to Joshua. They're the only two old men still alive. 85. He's like, Joshua, I'm stronger today than I've ever been in my life. Joshua's like, cool, man, you're ready for your retirement? I'm gonna give it to you. He's like, Yes, I am. What land do you want? I want Hebron. And it's what I want to do the rest of my life. And I believe there's a Hebron inside of Hollywood. The reason that's so powerful is because he's 85, and there's one feared giant left in all of the land, and he lives in Hebron. And that feared giant that has been conquering and dominate dominating people, Caleb's still thirsty for one more fight. He could have picked any land and Joshua would have given it to him. He picked the o the Bible says the only land still inhabited with giants. And that dude went and conquered those giants and set up his legacy from that point forward. I think there's a Hebron in Hollywood, and I won it.

Host

We're gonna help you in any way we can, brother. Thank you, bro. And I hope that the folks that are taking the time to listen to this podcast and follow us and follow what we're doing will definitely go support Cody as well and his endeavors because it's not just it's for all of us. What he's building is is for all of us out there. Well, as we close, man, I just want to personally say thank you. Thank you. From our very first communication up until this podcast, I mean, all my interactions with you has just been awesome. I mean, you're a super helpful person. You've opened up a lot of different things, idea uh and ideas and and given me a lot of you know, some some pretty good counsel, if you will. And and I'm I'm super appreciative for that. Thanks for part of it. And, you know, it's just been awesome to get to know you. It's, you know, I have a lot of respect for people. I've had some great people sit in that chair where you're sitting, and you know, for for people to come and be vulnerable and be able to tell their fears and the things and their failures and be, you know, just just just super honest so that people can get better and do better. And I know that's your heart. I know that's uh that's that's been a lot of your story. I've been reading your, you know, the devotional book. I read it every day. It's been super powerful. I've actually I have a men's fellowship group and I've actually shared some of those those you know, those those things with them as well. And so you know, I hope if you're looking for a devotional and you're a man, it it's it's an awesome, and obviously we'll we'll put a link down there. So thanks for giving us a little bit of your time, man. It's hard fought. You've got a million things going on, a bunch of businesses, you're standing up stuff, uh, and you still carved out a solid amount of time for us to to to hang out so that we could really do a solid podcast, man. And I I hope everybody's listening really enjoys that. Thank you, brother. I to those of you that are listening and watching, I I just want to say thank you, man. It's we just closed out 2025. Cody's our anchor for 2026, and we had an unbelievable year. It's still amazing. It's not even really real to me, to be honest with you, but we have that because of of the support out there. So, from the bottom of my heart, thanks for tuning in. If you're listening to this on Spotify or iTunes, I really appreciate it. If you could, you know, follow us, you know, click the subscribe, leave a comment, we read them all. It would really help our algorithm push this farther. If you're on YouTube and you're not subscribed, you know, please subscribe. If you've stayed through this whole thing at this point, obviously you found value in it. It's free and you know it it helps us to be able to grow. Uh, we do have a merchandise store, www.thevanguardwall.com. We sell shirts, hats, sweatshirts, sun shirts. We use that money to pretty much fund this project. And we are starting a Patreon. Cody has definitely, definitely inspired me. We're gonna start a Patreon. We're uh still kind of carving out what that's gonna look like. It should be up and running, hopefully, by the time this airs. I mean, hopefully you guys will find value in. And it's just another way that you can support this movement. This is a lot more than a podcast, and I hope you are learning that this is a movement. You're a part of that movement. If you're listening to this, you're part of the tribe. Whatever reason brought you here, whatever tuned you into the story, you know, you're a part of this. Without you guys, I wouldn't have a podcast. So, from the bottom of my heart, say, you know, I just want to say thank you to all you guys and everybody out there, man. Stay safe. And if you can't be safe, be violent out here.