Host

We made it, dude. You're uh you're bringing this movie um to the screen July 3rd, dude. What uh this is exciting. Man of war. Super exciting trailer just dropped yesterday afternoon. It was like late in the yesterday, and then I think we were looking last night. One of them already has like a half a million views or 600,000 views in like three hours. But Monica Garrett, this is gonna be a good one. So before we dive in uh you know to everything about the movie, I'll just give a just a quick intro. Uh for those of you that don't know, this is my friend William Kaufman. Um, he's a movie director, he's made some phenomenal movies. The channel, uh, Centers and Saints, um, Shrapnel, and then I mean, you've done how many movies? Uh, this is number 13. This is 13 that you've like uh directed. Directed, but you've been a part of all kinds of movies, right?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah.

Host

Yeah, I'm I'm excited for this one. In 2022, the world watched Russia invade Ukraine from a distance on screens through algorithms. William Kaufman watched it the way he watches every story. Not the flags, not the politicians, but the people caught in the middle. The man who gets the call, the kid in the orphanage. That instinct became the movie Man of War. Kaufman's 14th feature out on digital, July 3rd, 2026. Lamonica Garrett plays a burned-out ex-operator at the lowest point of his life when his phone rings on the morning of the invasion. A girl he spent years protecting is trapped in an orphanage in Kharkiv. The trailer is out now. He's the director behind Centers and Saints, the hit list, Daylights In, Trapnol, the Channel, and Osiris, and now Man of War. Twenty years of films, not one of them made the way Hollywood would make it. He shoots with the crew he calls family, thousands of miles away from Hollywood, and he casts real people because he doesn't know how to fake authenticity. Today, the movie, how he built it, why he made it, why he wants you to feel a certain way when those lights go down. This is the Man of War movie, and this is William Kaufman. Dude, thanks for being here, man. I'm stoked for this uh for this film. I think uh last time uh was this time last year that Max and Michael were talking about your last film, Osiris, which is another uh great film. If you guys haven't seen that, um I would definitely go check it out. And if you haven't seen the channel, um go see that. It's probably my top mute. I think I'm always talking about that movie. It's just a great movie, man. Thank you for having me, man. Yeah. One of the bittest biggest things, uh, as you and I were were um just talking about this movie hell months ago. I I don't, I think you were coming back from Bulgaria. Um, one of the things that really stuck with me is you told me something, and it says you said this is not a political movie. We're not picking sides, we don't have a political agenda. This is a movie about people caught in the middle of war. War is ugly, it's a monster, it eats up everything. I mean, I've spent my time in a combat zone, and I I definitely can identify with that. I mean, I think anybody who knows or who's watched anything on social media about Ukraine and that war, regardless of what you whether you lean towards one person or one side winning over another, the human toll just it's been pretty bad, right? I mean, it's you know, you're seeing these drone videos. I mean, it has fundamentally changed warfare. We just had a Vietnam pilot here not that long ago that kind of, you know, wrote the doctrine, if you will, uh on Little Bird uh and how helicopters integrated. Now with Ukraine and drones, we just got rid of our entire Cav Scout, uh, all the Cav Scouts, uh, as far as aerial Cav Scouts. I think they're all gone from the Army now. It's all it's all drones. And so, you know, and that's that's this war. This war has, I think, honestly shaped modern warfare. So as we as we start, you know, give me Man of War, kind of a one paragraph in your own words, the version you'd give to a stranger at a gas station who's about to decide whether to go see it.

SPEAKER_00

Dude, I'm terrible at this. Um, it's a story about what a man will do for family. You know, it's a story about what people will do for family. So, clumsiest elevator pitch I can give you is this is a story about an ex-operator, as you said, on the lowest point in his career. He gets a call from someone that is kind of a surrogate daughter, and she's working in an orphanage in Kharkiv on the eve of the invasion of Ukraine. She's trapped, and he's gonna go in and find her. And he pulls on his resources, which is he was an ex-SAD CIA guy, and um he pulls on his old handler, um, played by Jason Patrick. Great actor. Fantastic actor, yep, to help him pull this off. And so he goes in, he gets teamed up with the Ukrainian fixer, who's also an ex-asset of Jason Patrick's character, and uh that's gonna essentially he's called the tour guide to get him through the combat zone. And and that character, Danny, played by Andrew Howard, a brilliant Welsh actor. You know him from he played the gangster in Limitless. Great movie, dude. Really, really great actor. Uh, he's been in in several Christmas for Nolan. He's about to be in Nolan's Odyssey, and I was able to talk him into joining us to play this role. He's really, I consider his character like kind of the heart of the film. And he's doing this job not for money, uh, he's doing it for his uh to get his wife and two kids passage out of the country in this crazy combat zone. Because nobody's expecting Ukraine to last more than a week. Lamonica Garrett plays Connor, our lead. Jason Patrick um teams him up. Um he hitches a flight to uh Kyiv along with um a team of crazy pirates. I call them the crazy pirates, a montley crew of mercenaries, PMC guys who are going in. This is based loosely on a true story of guys who got hired, PMC team, to go in and rescue this hugely rich Ukrainian oligarch who's trying to get out of the country himself. And so he he hitches this ride to the country that's led by Bunny Linz Edwards, who plays this East London hackney guy. Um he's kind of funny character, for former SAS, turned PMC. It's and then it's just this kind of journey um between um him landing in Kyiv to getting to Kharkiv in in the middle of this war zone, which is culminates in the finale when the Ukrainians are trying to fight to take the city back. And the villains of the piece are this crazy uh foreign PMC that are about as um evil as evil gets. Yeah. And there that's played the lead is Daniel Bernhardt, who plays a fantastic villain. And Daniel, you've seen him in Nobody. He was he's the the heavy from Atomic Blonde. He's been in a ton, a ton of movies. He's he's brilliant. Yeah.

Host

The Russian-Ukraine war, it's it's still happening. Um, it's politically charged. Most fem filmmakers either you know won't touch it or it would only touch it from some ideological side. Uh, you know, dude, war's ugly. We we just said it in the opening. You you told me that when we were talking about this. Talk to me about why the way you you did it is really the only honest way to make this movie, uh, as far as from the human side.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I we are the first film I know of to be addressing the war. I know that Taylor Sheridan I I've known because of Lamonica's in season three of Lioness. And I know their Ukraine is a big part of this next season. So um I figure if he's got the stones to do it, then I'm I'm in good company. Oh yeah. And um, as a you know, talking specifically about the the the setting, the the our story is loosely based on a real incident. And so again, this is about like we we got to bring on some amazing actors that are actually Ukrainian refugees. The film was filmed in in Bulgaria, and we got to work with these uh amazing actors that brought a whole level of heart and realism to the movie. I mean, I I remember there's this one scene we're doing, and there's this amazing actress, and when I called Cut, I noticed the extras were all crying. And the whole scene was in Ukrainian, so I I had written the English, but I didn't know specifically what was being said. But what I found out afterwards was that the the character that was sharing this story of she's a desperate Ukrainian woman, she actually was Ukrainian, she actually had survived a drone attack and had the facial scars to prove it. And um is that the the Bulgarian actors, although the the languages are different, they're close enough that they uh they the extra started crying because they were listening to her tell her story. Wow. And they were so emotionally affected by it. And and so I think it was it was things like that. The character um Andrew Howard plays Danny, who's the the lead Ukrainian hero, the the co-star, his wife is played by a Ukrainian actress, another brilliant actress, and she um when she's saying goodbye to Danny, that was for her, that was very similar when she was saying goodbye to her parents. Because they they managed to get her out. They could get her out, but they were still stuck there in the middle of the war. So and there just it was uh there there's a lot of details that weren't in the script. These are things that like the the character of Mama, who's Tatiana, um, is the actress who played her. Um, she said, Hey, she's got a scene with her son, and she suggested we put this bracelet on him. And this is this is the kind of detail I'm talking about. And the bracelet is something they were made of of cloth, and it's something she did for her own children, and it has the name of someone outside of the country, it has the child's name, full name, the name of someone out of the country, and then and their phone number. And the reason they did this with all their kids was if they were killed and their kid ended up in a refugee camp, uh that kid could be funneled to family outside of the country and have some hope of being not just an orphan. So and that was you know, both a tragic and beautiful story in itself.

Host

When you started hearing these stories, when you get to Bulgaria and you start filming, did you feel some kind of like I don't know, almost a moral responsibility to make sure you got certain pieces right?

SPEAKER_00

I think that was when it really hit me the gravity of telling this story set in an ongoing conflict with so much tragedy to it. I felt like there was an obligation to be as uh as truthful as we could be in a in a fictional um action thriller, right? That if we were gonna put it, place it in this world, we needed to be as true as possible. I also know um I spoke to a a great Russian actor friend of mine that I talked about being in the film. He couldn't because it would have destroyed his career. Um but I also know that he had family members who had been deployed uh in the Russian military and that they didn't want to be there. Yeah, you know, um that they were again following orders. And both both sides have an argument, right? And I think anytime it's kind of like our world, anytime one of us thinks the other other side has no argument, um, we're being kind of naive. And we sit there and and um I've got someone very close to me whose algorithms are feeding them one narrative. And it's an opposite narrative than I have, and I gotta remember that my algorithm is based on me. And and to remember that social media and all this stuff is about money. And that they don't Instagram, Facebook, none of these make any money if they don't keep us engaged. So they they they you know it's much easier if we all hate each other. And and there there are fundamental differences that you know there's things certain people believe I'm never gonna believe. In this situation, I have I have um I have a good Russian friend who's very really not happy with me that I've done this film. Any story I portrayed, there I ch I used his arguments that he gave me and I I used the first hand accounts of people that I knew and and and film that I had seen, um, and stories that I uh from people that I who who were directly involved in the incident that I trust implicitly. I remember even there the the Ukrainian actress Tatiana was like she was very cautious about what my my goals were and what I was after. And I said, Well, you know, I respect that, but you need to know that um I'm not trying to make a decision here. I'm trying to tell a story with this as a backdrop. And I think the minute I become um leaning one way or the other propaganda-wise, it all gets written off anyway.

unknown

Yeah.

Host

This started as a different idea kind of entirely. Your writing partner, Paul, brought you a concept, and then you guys kind of reshaped it together, and then you landed on the opening days of the invasion of Korean, Ukraine. Uh, walk me through the path from concept to setting, what changed and why.

SPEAKER_00

My creative partner, Paul Reichel, my executive producer as well, he had this idea that was based on a true story. It was an even more controversial war than Ukraine. But it was a true story about a guy who's a soldier who goes into this hot zone to tr save a family member. And he he really did this. And I said, Well, man, I um I don't want to touch that with a 10-foot pole. I think there's something to be told on this story, but um what if we go this direction? And he was a and the other logic was on a simple production level, um, I had the relationship of Bulgaria, and Bulgaria could be a great double for Ukraine. Yes, it's different, but there are similar things, they have a similar history of architecture, and so and we shot the whole film in Sofia, which was you know, Kyiv is much more modern, you know, and a lot of Sofia Bulgaria is modern, but a lot of it's older as there's sections that are almost pre-World War II-ish. They have a similar history where both of them took a lot of of hits in World War II and had to do a lot of rebuilding. But so it just became a on a production-friendly level, it became something that made sense that we could do and do convincingly. And so we we settled on this story to do it in Ukraine. The title was originally, I think, like it was Nightingale, right?

Host

That's right. In um in the industry trade announcements, but by the time you know the marketing poster hit, it was changed to the man of war. What changed kind of between those two titles and and what does the man of war tell the audience that Nightingale didn't?

SPEAKER_00

Nightingale was a title I probably would have preferred. Nightingale is the national bird of Ukraine. It's it so it it directly related in the story. His adopted daughter is a second-generation Ukrainian um who's working in the country. I just thought it really it fit. That said, there's a giant studio movie that'll be out this time next year that took that name first or took it second and just won out. And actually, from our distributor's point of view, um, they felt like, and they're probably right. Um, they felt that you that Nightingale sounded like a drama. So we kicked around some title options, and I'm a huge Man on Fire fan. Yeah, it's a good movie. So Man of War sounded like a um a great option, and uh, you know, and and our character Lamonica is a man of war, and he is a man at war.

Host

Yeah, and if you're not familiar with La Monica, I know sometimes, man, I don't know all these actors' names, but I like the moment you see him on a screen. Lamonica was in uh 1883, um, and he just finished up filming, I think, the third season of um Lioness. Lioness. The first two are freaking off. Taylor Sheridan is uh great, great TV show. Um, and so La Monica's starting to like show up everywhere. He um Terminal List. Terminal List did a great job on that. And then uh he was originally on Sons of Anarchy, I think, where he made him and Sheridan worked. Yeah, they were both like LA County Sheriff Deputies or something like that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, which is funny because my best friend who works for LA County uh was actually in in a couple of those as well. Really? Yeah, a similar role, not as much as those dudes, but um your previous film, Osiris, was a like kind of a special forces team abducted by aliens. This one is a contractor going into a real war zone from sci-fi back to that grounded, gritty, um, you know, kind of um war zone um or conflict. What's the creative pull back to this? Because you this is like a space you you're you're really good at.

SPEAKER_00

I appreciate it. I mean, I think that the sci-fi side of things is I enjoy and I'm really proud of Osiris. I love Osiris, but I think movies like Man of War, movies like The Channel, which are more grounded in um present-day reality, is is those are um I kind of feel probably more the most my comfort of my my wheelhouse. Like Osiris, I mean, that's a crazy insane idea, but that's how I attacked it was as a grounded real idea. So if there was a team of operators that got abducted, what how would you do that? And I feel like anytime you're gonna do something, something super genre, the grittier and more kind of real and authentic you can take it, and everyone's committed to that vision, the more um palatable it is for a wider audience.

Host

I got to sit and watch it last night with my wife. We we all watched together with you and your wife. And you know, I kind of had the channel as my frame of reference. I haven't seen all your movies, but I've seen the channel, and like the the shooting sequences, the tactical sequences and all in that film were really well. And I thought maybe you just had like I was really curious to see if that was a one-off. Because you know, sometimes like people hit it out of the park in the next couple movies, like eh. But uh, after watching uh Man of War, like it's it's just as you know well done. And I think it speaks to kind of your background, your your military background, but also your the people you've surrounded your self-attack advisors and you know, the people that you use um, you know, to get ideas from and you know, your friends that have done those things in real life. Um, it's obviously that you guys spent a lot of time making sure that you got some of those sequences right because they they play out really well on the camera. I mean, I think I was asking you after we watched, I'm like, bro, how did you how do you choreograph that out? How do you do that? Because it was, you know, you it it's um I I can't imagine the orchestration it takes to to run some of those pretty complex because there's some really good run and gun battle scenes in there.

SPEAKER_00

And we had to do that stuff really, really fast. There were times where we I had my second director, stunt coordinator, Stani, um, who's a Taurus, he did extraction too. Yeah, I mean, he's like as high as it gets, total badass, great filmmaker. I would we're literally working on the same set. He's down at one end of the boulevard killing Russians, and I'm heroing the rock star, our heroes, our our little crew of killers. And um we just kind of work towards each other. So um we came up with a plan and a strategy, and we were lucky we had a great TAC advisor, uh Max Krauss, an IDF, total badass that came in. And again, I think the strength is is leaning on people who are really good at what you're trying to what you can't do, yeah. You know, is uh is I you know, just to have people to lean on that really have done it for real and know what they're talking about.

Host

Lamonica's character, Connor, your protagonist, um, is an ex-team guy who burned out. He went from active duty to CIA uh SAD to private contractor. By the time the movie starts, he's just come off something ugly. Without spoilers, um, where is he when we first meet him in the movie?

SPEAKER_00

He's in Barcelona. He's just come back from a contractor job. We don't really get into it, but um in my opinion, he was he was doing something in the Congo or something in Africa, and this is taken from people I know anti-piracy stuff, which for uh an operator can be incredibly boring. So for me, it was one of these guys who's lived at such a level of of um excellence and he's just burnt out and realizing that there's no purpose to what he's doing. And this job kind of is this mission that he goes on to save his family member is what gives him purpose again. And I think over the course of the movie there's different things uh other people he comes across that sacrifice just to as expressions of humanity, of how we're called to be. And I think um at first he looks at it as they're naive and slowly through the film his arc is that he comes back to value life again and humanity and and believing in um as ugly as war is that uh it's worth that's a great, great quote, her Hemingway quote that's used in Seven, which is the world is a beautiful place and worth fighting for. And Somerset says in the movie Seven, he says, I believe in the first part, you know. Or I believe I I believe in the second part. Yeah, yeah.

Host

So La Monica Garrett, you work with him in Osiris. What did Osiris reveal about him that made him kind of the right conner for the story?

SPEAKER_00

Uh you know, I just had I just heard from someone who was so excited that I had La Monica playing the leading man of this movie. Because he was like, Man, I've been a fan fan of La Monica's forever. He always plays like the the heavy, the you know, or the the number two or three to the lead. What I experienced was that as much of an action hero as La Monica looks like, he's put in the work with really talented people. Um what what separates him is the emotional depth he has as an actor, the maturity and the and the connection. The heart, so uh that he's really interesting to watch as an actor, and he's really authentic. So there's a lot of guys that we grew up loving that look cool, um, but they're they're not the most brilliant thespians, right? And Lamonica's just he's a freaking great actor. I think he could do damn near anything.

Host

Yeah, and there's just some people that kind of live in those roles, like Max is a big person like that, man. Yeah, yeah. He's done a lot of tactical roles, and some people just like suit it. And you can only fake so much on a camera, dude. Right. And your stunt guy can only do so much for you. At some point, you know, that movie's gonna rest on whether or not that actor can do certain things. And if he doesn't sell it, then us as the audience isn't gonna buy it, dude. Right. I mean, the phone call um that Lamonica gets, like this in this enticing moment. He gets a FaceTime call from, you know, this girl, you know, his his niece or somebody that's obviously very close to him, and it's the morning of the actual like invasion of Ukraine. What did you want the audience to feel in those like first 90 seconds before they even know like who's calling?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's kind of um for me the the worst nightmare of any man, right? Is to see someone you love, to know someone you love's in great danger, happening live, and you can't do anything. Not you don't want to or you're you're afraid to, you literally have no choice. So even no matter how capable you are, um because there's there's a lot of guys who who are are are not ex-Navy SEALs and CIA SAD operators who still, if someone got between them and their family, they'd at least go down trying. I would, right? Yeah, so I think um the idea of you know, imagine you're you're I mean it's it's not it's it's a it's a father's worth nightmare. Your your kid decides to go on spring break holiday to Cancun, and all of a sudden you get a call from a cartel guy saying, send me a hundred grand in the next 24 hours, or you know, we're gonna kill her. And you're listening to her cry. So that to me is like a worst-case scenario. Yeah.

Host

Um, the geography, you guys are in Sophia Bulgaria, which um you guys used to play the Martin, the the modern-day Kiev. Sophia also plays the more Soviet-edge Kharkiv aspect of the movie um when it's first getting overrun. Walk us through how you and your DP make uh the city played both scenes, and which one of those was do you think was harder to find?

SPEAKER_00

The sequences in Kyiv were were very that's in the first 10 minutes. I think that it was um the challenge for us was this film the react the real event happens in February, February 22nd, I believe. So that's February, and it wasn't snowing in Ukraine, but it it was cold and overcast. And we were filming in like September in Sofia, so it was really the weather wasn't right. So we put the poor guys had coats on and stuff when they were sweating, it was hot, and so I think part of it was we have a pretty extreme color treatment, the way we make the the film look. The closest I could compare it to is kind of like a saving private Ryan, the desaturated, kind of to pull some of the life out, muted greens and blues, and and um to give it lean it towards that cold war is draining everything out of you, leaning a little more towards this this cold time in the end of February. We had a lot of reference photos of um real places in Kyiv and Kharkiv, Kev. Um, and we would try I would show this to the location scout, and he would go and try and find things that were as close as match as possible. And he did a great job. Is that a pretty laborist process? Um, it would be if you didn't have a really great scout. Yeah, I can imagine. Location manager, but we did. Because you gotta get like stuff cleared through the country and then you gotta get stuff shut down. Like it's yeah, we have to shut down roads and stuff, but that I mean our production team are badasses there, and they it's they really run all that and they make life as easy as possible for us. That's great. But you know, yeah, so the it it's about you have to be prepped and have done the initial research to give enough references for your scouts to go and search for the right things.

Host

Jason Patrick uh uh plays Charlie. If you guys don't know who Jason Patrick is, he's another awesome actor. Uh I think I think it's the last Narc or Narc. I don't remember. Narc. Narc. It's probably one of the best movies since Joe Carnahan directed it. Old school movie. Yeah, Ray Leota, badass movie. Just gritty too, man. Um, Jason Patrick is Charlie. Uh you reunited with him after Shrapnel. He plays Connor's ex-CIA handler. What was it like to have him on set? You guys are back working together after Shrapnel.

SPEAKER_00

That was actually awesome because we had we had a good time on Shrapnel. But what was cool about that is I needed that role. I wanted to have a great actor in that role. I called Jason and said, Hey man, will you come do this? It's like, you're gonna you're gonna be in Bulgaria for a week. He said, Is it a good part? I said, it's a it's a good part. And he said, Well, is there any money? Nope. And he says, You really want me to do this? I said, Be greatly appreciated. And he's like, Okay, we'll make it happen. That's awesome. And so he came out as a favor. And I thought it was important to have someone in that role that um the audience could connect with because even if on the rare chance you don't know that name, you'll see him and you'll know exactly who he is. He goes back to the Lost Boys, and you know, he he's been around forever. He was in Speed 2. He's he uh After Dark My Sweet Rush. I mean, he's just a phenomenal, phenomenal actor. Yeah, and um I wanted people someone that people could see and immediately connect with. And I begged him to do it, and he came out and did me a solid. That's awesome, dude. So I owe him.

Host

Um, Danny plays played by Andrew Howard, that's kind of your uh main character supporting actor. Um, he's the Russian mobster from Limitless, another great movie. Uh, talk to me what it was like to have uh to have him in this movie, and he he plays like a very serious role, but he's also got some funny parts early on that are yeah that are pretty good. It's a great blend.

SPEAKER_00

Andrew's phenomenal. People typically he plays heavies and bad guys because he's a great scary bad guy. And I remember when I told some people that I wanted him, they said, Man, I've heard he's a handful, and I've heard this and that. And I was like, I've been talking to him. We connected on I think on social media or something. We had a fellow filmmaker that connected us, and um, I asked him to do it, he read it. It's unlike anything I've seen him play before because he's actually the family guy, he's the good guy, he's a sweetheart, he's the heart of the movie. Yeah, and I asked him to play the role, and we really connected. He came out and we really hit it off. That's what made that film so solid was I had a cast that were all on my side. We were all chasing the same mission, we were all chasing the same movie. I love him like a brother. I think he's just a really, really solid dude, and it's and that's all the bonus of the fact that he's also a phenomenal actor. Yeah. And he he he elevated what was on the page. What I wrote, he turned that character into something much more.

Host

That's great. He he he uh he did a great job. What was there conversations on set, like in a group setting, or even maybe five, six people were you guys talked about the gravity of you know uh what's going on in Ukraine?

SPEAKER_00

I think that was it was especially with Andrew, he would push back, constantly pushing that he's representing the Ukrainian man, right? And um so in any place that he felt like I was making him subservient or or not making him have the smartest decisions, which were unintentional. No, um, I was just driven towards the the Connor character being the leading man. And as he fought fought for more, he made it better. And it was something I was like, oh gosh, I just wasn't thinking.

Host

That's cool. So that does that happen often where you know you have this script, and that's what's approved to make this movie, um, where you as the director realize somebody like a character like Danny has a different input that you could do better. Is that something that happens more often, or is that is that kind of other one-offs?

SPEAKER_00

I think it happens kind of inside my circle, and it probably happens at the highest levels with the real big shots, like the Christopher Nolans, like the James Cameron's, the Michael Mann's. When it it's about when ego doesn't get in the way. A lot of times in my sub-10 million, sub-five million dollar world, the actor is who has financed the movie, so they have so much control over that that they really bad choices can be made because they're the boss. And it's kind of like imagine, you know, making the football analogy that the star running back or star receiver or quarterback is calling the place, and the coach is trying to lead the team, but at times the the star athlete just comes in and says, No, we need to do it this way. And that's I don't I I don't make films that way anymore. I have done it and and have found it really unsatisfying. That's awesome.

Host

Um, there's a deliberate tension between Connor and Danny in the dialogue. Connor, the American, gets a line where he asked Danny if he really thought, you know, we being the US were going to let, you know, that Uncle Sam was going to let you know, Russia's on you know, NATO's back doorstep. Danny the Ukrainian um has his own answer. You wrote both of those characters to say something different about the war on purpose. Why was it important to put both views in the same movie?

SPEAKER_00

I think it was important because uh one, I have a uh a friend of mine, a Russian friend of mine, former Spetsnaz operator, really talented guy, um, who felt real who feels really strongly pro-Russian, right? I get it. And he gave me certain arguments, has given me certain arguments, and they're and they're valid arguments. Some of them are valid arguments, and so I I feel like there's valid counter-arguments. And so I felt like they both needed to be expressed if you're gonna tell something with that level of gravity. Um you can still let the audience decide at the end of the day. You know, I'm not deciding for you, but um I think that I could see it because I'd heard it from a friend who had a different perspective and isn't thrilled with me because at the end of the day, if you do a film where the co-lead of the film is a Ukrainian, it's gonna sound slanted towards that argument, you know, which that is not my goal here. As I've said, I'm not this isn't a political agenda. But I just thought it was important to um there's some ugly things that happen to Russian characters too that are based on true stories. So you know.

Host

Peter Roberts plays uh the character Bunny, leads the British mercenary contingent. He's going in for a two million um probably reward for capturing some you know rich Ukrainian oligarch or something. Uh tell me about the colour characters around Bunny and where they sit kind of in the story. And uh has he I had I'd never seen him before, but he was a great he did great in that movie.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Linz Edwards, his character is Peter Bunny Roberts. Linz Edwards is a brilliant actor. He was in the channel. Oh, really? He played the the blonde bank robber that gets wounded. And then he in Osiris, he was the hillbilly, the sniper. Yep. And he came on and was playing this guy from East London in this movie, this SAS operator. And Linz is is a phenomenal actor. He's he's the guy who should be on every every director's speed dial. He can do anything. Uh yeah, I I literally would put him in everything I ever do, and he's just a freaking great human being.

Host

Well, you're turning out to be one of those Taylor Sheridans because I'm starting to see some of the same actors. Yeah. You're loyal. I and I that's one thing I love about you, man. I mean, you have these crews and these actors, and I'm loyal because they're badasses. Yeah, you know. Um, yeah, he is he he his his is like the perfect mix of of gritty. Uh he does great in the action scenes, but he's got some great punchy one-liners. I don't want to give them away, but they're uh they're pretty good.

SPEAKER_00

Originally, they were supposed to be all an all-British cast, a bunch of British Royal Marines and X PMC, a British PMC group. And our our budget didn't allow us to bring all these people in. We brought one guy in, um, Greg Burge, who played Zeus, the sniper, also from East London, who really is from East London, and he was uh Linz's dialect coach. And then we had um just a great bunch of fantastic stuntmen. And then there uh Max Krause, who was our tactical advisor, who's who also just is a flat out actor, right? Stuntman actor, and he came in and played Ringo. Then we had Tony who played Big Lags on the 249, and then we had uh Mowgli who played Flo the Italian, this motley crew of uh of mercenaries, and these guys, what was great. I remember I was a little hesitant because you know they're stuntmen, right? Or some of them are stuntmen, and and um, but when I auditioned them, I was like, man, they're they're they're as real as it gets, and there's nothing like they pulled off all the performance stuff, all the emotional stuff they had to, and there's nothing like having a character who doesn't have to be doubled, who takes a really nasty smack on the concrete after they've been shot, and you go, Okay, that's legit. And I remember in in the film, we we uh Francois has this line where he's he's got this sawed off 870 that he's packing away, and he gets scolded by Linz for bringing this little gun. Like, what are you doing? You get and he's like, What if we get in there like swimwear, which is his South African line that he created, and we definish the scene and we cut, and Francois's like a legendary. I I he would cringe if I said that, but he's just he's one of the best rig riggers, stunt riggers, stunt men uh you know, in the world. He's worked on giant, giant movies, and I had worked with him before on on a movie, and I really wanted him back on this one uh to play this part, and I begged him to come back in. He lives in Switzerland now, and um, we finished doing this little dialogue scene that he had to do, and he turns to me afterward, he goes, I would rather be set on fire or do uh a hundred foot high fall than then do that again. He he hate it's kind of like me getting on camera, it's not it's not my go-to, and um, but I thought he did great.

Host

That's awesome, dude. Yeah, sometimes, man, the people you you don't think can do certain things. Uh you you bring them for one thing, and you realize that you know they got multiple capabilities that can fill multiple roles, so that's that's gotta be cool to have people you can go to for multiple things on set.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I heard Michael Mann um he directed Heat and a bunch of other great films. He uses uh he's a Chicago-based director, that's his home. And he uses he used like Dennis Fernands was a cop that he brought into his movies, and so he's used a lot of of real people in these roles. And so um, whenever I can do that and they can do it, that I lean that direction.

Host

It's awesome. Through 15 years of film, um you you've kind of run a lot with the same crew. Um, you've had you know, Centers and Saints, you did Chad Law has has helped you on a couple films, right? Or you've worked with him on a couple films. Uh your bug, your Bulgarian production family, Max Martini twice in a row, um, Michael Irby with Osiris, Lamonica, Garrett, uh, just did this one. He's got another one coming up with you. Um, and a town where most relationships are transactional, you've built like a real repertoire of long-term collaborators. Um, what does what does it cost and what does it give back to build such a creative family instead of just a Rolodex?

SPEAKER_00

I think like it used to be the way it was done, theater troops. You would use the same actors. Um, and I think that there's a shorthand and a love of the day to get to work with people that you've already built a uh uh a communication with, a language with. And I think it it speeds things up, it makes and I'm always looking to work with other people as well. But the guys you see me work with, there's people I've worked with a couple times I'll never work with again. Yeah. Right? And those are experiences I learned. I go, okay, um, that was great, that was great, that was not a good experience, I'm not doing that, and uh, you know, you move on, but then there's experiences that you go, man, I I don't ever want it to stop, you know. But it's also with like there, there typically there's only one lead in a movie, so it's it's like and that will change, you know, and and the director is not fully responsible for who plays which roles. I can make a case and an argument to my producers, but again, as you've heard me say before, it's show business, not show fun. And sometimes the needs are required to be different ways. I've had my executive producer say, I love that actor, but I want to work with someone new on this next movie. And so that it's just the way it goes. Yeah.

Host

Andrew and Isaac Lewis, um, they're your Texas producer brothers. You call them your secret weapon. Uh, they protect creator for you the way nobody else in the business does. What's a specific moment on The Man of War where Andrew or Isaac said something that you know really helped save the movie or just helped, you know, push that movie to the next level.

SPEAKER_00

He's their their twin brothers, live in Denton, Texas. They're my crew, they're my ride or die producers. Andrew, literally, I think of the 25-day shoot, he or he he was behind a camera, 17 of those on a camera he brought with him. So he's a he's a he's a DP and an operator himself. So he was someone that was, you know, he did drone footage. He was operating his drone that he brought with us. Both of them, there have been times when, you know, especially when we're in um tough creative moments, the world's falling down on us. They're the kind of guys who can come in and get in my ear and give me their encouragement, thoughts, ideas. Um, I think where they really shine is they support the creative going into it. Like most people at my budget level will never pay for TAC advisor. You know, so and that's why you've got heroes that are teacup in their 45 or are spraying and praying, they're oozy from their hip, but they respect it and get it, and they're not gun guys, but the people that know they appreciate it. And I feel like a level of commitment and I feel like an obligation to try and do it right. We make mistakes, but we try and do it right. And the people that don't know, the regular Joes, they go, I don't know why that looks cool that he did that shoulder transition as he came down the stairs around the corner, but it looks cool. And then I've got the guys who have done it for real in a combat zone who watched, go, okay, that works. That's legit. And they just appreciate it. So it and so those guys support that. And I would say the greatest thing that the brothers give me is especially in the editorial, because once we get into cutting and finalizing the movie, they've just they've just constantly creatively elevated the stuff we work on. And they're directors, filmmakers themselves. So um I've tried to do that for them and they do it for me, and that's it's just a special collaboration.

Host

There's this idea, man, that um, you know, and I I I've talked to other people in the industry as well, that you know, a lot of normal people who just go watch movies as a consumer don't understand that you know it it's really important for people to support these movies so that you can make another movie, right? If you spend all this time, effort, and energy on a movie and it doesn't do well, it's really hard to go back and make another film. How how important is that um, you know, for people to get behind these films?

SPEAKER_00

As far as like the fans, yeah, yeah, the fans. I think that if you want to see movies that are not just gonna be the same franchise movie and not just uh a plug and play of the same stories we've seen over and over again, you've got to get behind it. If if it's if you don't care, then no worries. But if you dig this this kind of film, there's a a a group of fellow filmmakers that this is what we're after and this is what we chase and we love. Um But it that it's the the the playing field's getting smaller and smaller. Uh it seems like the budgets are always getting smaller and and the profits are always getting smaller. So um I think the more you can um if you if it is something that you enjoy, the more you can support it. That that's the only way it's gonna keep going.

Host

Yeah, and I'll I'll just say it as the guy, you know, hosting the podcast who knows you um pretty well uh and and kind of knows like what goes into this. It's super important uh for you guys to get out there and support this film. Um, you know, Will doesn't make films that are politically leaned, they're not woke, they're all the things that you know uh his film focuses on entertainment, good action sequences, you know, good filmmaking, not all the bullshit that the rest of us are, you know, continually tired uh of watching. So, you know, I'll say it, get out there and support this thing. Um Will's made some great movies, and uh he he can continue to make more if he continues to get to support. And so I know that's not something you're gonna come out and and and cheerlead. You know, I think watching entertainment is a personal choice, right? We there's tons of movies out there, there's tons of options, but you know, I'm I would Love it if our audience really got behind it. Because you know, um, you're making the type of films that that we that we crave, man. Just something to to entertain us, give us a good show that we can leave and get up and be like, man, I I got to let my brain go for a couple hours where I didn't have to think about all the different things I had to do. I just got to be entertained. You get to share it with somebody you like, and you know, we get to done when that, you know, when that final screen closes, you're like, man, that was a good movie, right? Like, I think a lot of us are craving that. And I I feel like there's not a lot of there's not a lot of great movies out there. I I'm not gonna say there's there's not, they're just getting harder to find, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying to take people on a thrill ride. I'm trying to um my goal is to entertain the hell out of you, to give the opportunity to see the movies that made me want to watch movies. And I I think that's um I think that's what we do, my team and I do. And um you want to see something we've done, go check out the channel. That's me that you want to know, you want to get some idea, go watch the trailer. And if you dig the trailer, I think you'll dig it. If you do the trailer, then you'll love the movie.

Host

Yeah, and if you like the channel, you'll love Man of Man of War. Channel's still, you know, I I've said it somewhere recently as well. I mean, the channel to me was it was up there with The Town, another bank robbery movie, man. Just just great acting, great movie. That's another one I watched. I was like, man, I didn't see that coming. And I found that movie on accident uh on Amazon Prime. Um, great, great film. Thank you. Uh, for audiences listening um to this right now, uh the trailer dropped yesterday. Um, movie comes out July 3rd. What's one thing you want them to walk in expecting, and what's the one thing you want them to walk out with?

SPEAKER_00

Um, I want you to go into it prepared for a hell of a ride. That you're gonna have a really good time, that you're gonna and you're gonna walk out of it wanting to see it again and or wanting to see the sequel. Yeah, that's dope, man.

Host

Um, you've got another one kind of already chalked up, lined up, ready to go. Hopefully going back there later on the summer to film it. Uh, you described it as something of like the book of Eli meets Terminator. You wrote it with your daughter Sarah, which is just super cool in and of itself. Um, we're going to dive all into that like kind of later on, but what does that project mean to you? I know your daughter was involved in this one, which was super cool, and just just having you know somebody.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that one that one's called Lost Cause. It's super special because it was something I had wanted to do as a kid and was a college kid and was told I couldn't do it, it was impossible. And I did I wrote this little short film and I turned that around um and partnered up with my daughter um six months ago to write this screenplay. And we collaborated, she totally elevated it, made it way, way better, and it turned into something that I is I think one of the best scripts I've been a part of. And it got greenlit right away. And uh Lamonica's gonna come back and and lead it. And I could not be more stoked.

Host

Super cool, man. Last question, man. To the audience listening to this, you know, getting ready to watch it when it comes out July 3rd or two years from now, whoever knows, you know, whenever they discover this, what's the thing that you uh that you want to leave them with or the last thing you want to tell them?

SPEAKER_00

Saying if you love movies, if you want to go on a thrill ride, you're gonna want to see this movie. It's it's uh a take no prisoners, unapologetic genre action film that you're is gonna leave you fully satisfied.

Host

That's awesome. Well, I watched it uh last night. I don't think you guys will be disappointed. Um, I wouldn't have had uh Will come on this podcast to to talk about it. And if it sucked, we wouldn't have filmed this podcast. That's just how I am, man. Um I try to be as authentic as possible on this podcast.

SPEAKER_00

I wouldn't be here either.

Host

Yeah, so we we wouldn't have wasted our time. So I you guys are gonna really enjoy it. I hope you uh I hope you take the time um to go watch it. If you're interested in in Will and Will's life, um there's also another podcast uh that talks specifically about um you know kind of how Will came up in this industry, his own personal story, which is very unique. He's about as blue-collar as the rest of us, not pretending like he's you know, and he's some posh Hollywood director. He's super down to earth. And I uh it was really important to do that podcast. So you guys really see, you know, behind the camera. It's not very often you get to sit down with a a movie director and find out who they are and why they got into this and and also their struggles, right? I mean, because there's things we talked about on that long form podcast um that you know just talks about really who you are, and it and at the end of the day, you're you're one of us, man. And so it's been it's been awesome um to watch you, you know, continue to to elevate. And I know you're you're going up up and away. So just don't forget me when you turn into James Cameron the second way.

SPEAKER_00

Likewise, James Cameron.

Host

Hey, you guys support the movie, man. Thanks for tuning in. Go see the movie. Yeah, stay safe out there. If you can't be safe, be violent. Be violent.