Finding true community in the outdoors, combating racism, and finding joy in nature with Jasmine Lowe

In this episode of Outdoorsy, Madeleine talks with Jasmine, a vegan writer, nature lover, and outdoor educator. Jasmine shares her journey from growing up near national parks in California to empowering underrepresented communities in outdoor spaces. From her work with Outward Bound Adventures and Woodcraft Rangers to her thoughts on inclusivity and mindful living, Jasmine inspires listeners to approach nature with respect, curiosity, and an open mind.

Chapters & Time Stamps:
0:00 – Introduction to Jasmine
1:10 – Jasmine’s Connection to the Outdoorsy Community
2:08 – Growing Up Near National Parks
3:30 – Immersion into Nature During College
4:21 – Finding Belonging in Outdoor Communities
6:10 – First Backpacking Trips and Climbing Mount Whitney
7:47 – Jasmine’s Work with Outward Bound Adventures
9:30 – Empowering Youth Through Outdoor Education
11:30 – Making a Career Shift into Nonprofit Work
13:24 – How Parents Can Introduce Kids to Nature
15:50 – Overcoming Fear and Anxiety for Solo Adventures
18:14 – Education and Preparation for the Outdoors
19:35 – Overcoming Microaggressions and Racism in the Outdoors
23:06 – Encouraging Inclusivity and Representation in Nature
28:12 – Advice for People Afraid of Racism or Exclusion in Outdoor Spaces
31:28 – Encouraging People to Start Small in Nature
34:05 – Communing with Nature: Shifting Away from a Conquest Mindset
35:03 – Balancing Inclusivity and Protecting Nature
39:12 – How Jasmine Defines Outdoorsy
40:23 – Misconceptions About the Outdoorsy Community
41:29 – Jasmine’s Upcoming Projects

Subscribe to our Patreon to access the Outdoorsy Discord community: https://www.patreon.com/Outdoorsy. 

Connect with Jasmine:
https://jasminedlowe.com/jasmines-links 
https://www.instagram.com/jasminedlowe/  
https://www.tiktok.com/@jasminedlowe  
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLnqNAKC6NOlzVX-XFa8sJsKeWwEPkKpvM  

Follow the amazing organizations that Jasmine supports: 
https://woodcraftrangers.org/
https://outwardboundcalifornia.org/

Transcript

Madeleine (00:01)
Welcome to Outdoorsy, the podcast where we are redefining what it means to be outdoorsy and reclaiming the word itself. I'm your host, Madeleine Today, I'm so excited to introduce you all to Jasmine. She's a vegan writer, nature lover, educator, art enthusiast from Southern California. Jasmine is an outdoor educator and has a really unique passion for blending her love of nature with mindful living.

She's not only an advocate for getting outside, but also brings her values to life through her page dedicated to vegan camping recipes, exploring the outdoors, proving that you can be a multitude of things in the outdoors, like enjoying a delicious, sustainable meal while out in the wild, and also educating people while also having fun. Jasmine's creativity and enthusiasm for the outdoors is truly inspiring. I'm so excited for her to dive into how she combines all these different passions together, education, nature, mindful living.

Jasmine, welcome to the show. So happy to have you on.

Jasmine (00:57)
Happy to be here.

Madeleine (00:59)
Awesome. So let's just dive in. Let's talk about your relationship to the outdoorsy community. Tell me a little bit about your relationship to the outdoorsy community and the world as a whole.

Jasmine (01:10)
So you mentioned I'm, sorry, I'm an outdoor educator. I do that part -time with Outward Bound Adventures. They primarily serve POC youth in the Los Angeles County region. And then I also write as a marketing or communications manager with Woodcraft Rangers. They are a nonprofit that primarily serves the youth in Los Angeles.

providing after school programs and they also do outdoor education as well. And yeah, I'm a lover of nature, a lover of art. I'm always outdoors. You mentioned I'm a vegan. I like to share my favorite recipes with people as I go, yeah.

Madeleine (01:58)
That's amazing. So did you grow up loving the outdoors and appreciating the outdoors? Or is this something that you kind of grew into later in adulthood?

Jasmine (02:08)
It was kind of a gradual turn. I grew up in a really rural area in the Central Valley in California, so I was always seeing the outdoors. The cities were farther apart, so you just saw tons of farmland. And then I grew up in a city that was just right next door to the Sequoia National Park. And I didn't really get the... I didn't know how special it was to be so close to two big national parks.

Kings County National Park as well. And we just used to drive through the park on a weekend as a family and just drive around to places. So I just was constantly seeing nature. And it wasn't until I went to college at Cal Poly Pomona for my undergraduate degree where I was just immersed in nature. Like that campus is super green and you literally have to hike to each one of your classes to get anywhere. So I was like slowly.

indoctrinated into hiking because of the setup of that campus. And that's, I continued that in grad school at Cal State Fullerton. There was this outdoorsy group called the Adventure Club and that's what they did. They just had adventures and I met so many people like international students and people from all different backgrounds and the commonality of it all was that we love the outdoors and camping and so I've been trying to chase that high.

I've joined a number of groups in LA, different hiking groups, climbing groups, people with different backgrounds and different interests, the whole common thing is that they just love being outside, so I love it.

Madeleine (03:57)
That sounds amazing. I love that journey that you've taken and I'm glad that you've found community in different avenues and different times in your life, know, whether that be college or, you know, later in life in LA. Tell me a little bit more about how you've found belonging in these different communities. And then I want to jump into kind of hearing a little bit more about your experience working with Outward Bound Adventures.

Jasmine (04:21)
Yeah, so I, like I mentioned, I sign up for all these different groups in LA, like, you know, that people who love to bring sandwiches outside and like cook with each other, like people who love skateboarding and riding bikes or swimming, and there's so many different things, but I noticed that I couldn't fully feel like super comfortable unless I with like, I was with a group of like women for a while, but

then there was a lot of friction in that sense where there wasn't a lot of intersectionality in that group. So I kind of looked for other groups that were more POC focused or like I joined Black Girls Trekking and was an adventure guide with them for a while and I led hikes and they do some of the cool things now. Like they just have a bunch of events. It's like hard to keep up, but I really found community with them as well. I just felt really comfortable because I saw

women like me who love being outdoors and it was just I felt so much I felt more comfortable just going out just you know everybody related well to each other and like you know had the same struggles and similar backgrounds even though that we were completely different people and So I'm really grateful to like have found those niche groups as well

Madeleine (05:43)
That's amazing. It's so important. feel like in the outdoor community, sometimes it's hard to find those niche groups of the communities that share similar identities or backgrounds as you. But then once you do, it's like such a breath of like fresh air. It's like, it doesn't have to be this particular way. Like these are my people. Like this is, this is great. This is really nice. That's so cool. What are some of the things that you did?

Jasmine (06:04)
Yeah.

Madeleine (06:10)
with some of those groups, some of the fun adventures you had that you can remember.

Jasmine (06:14)
I went backpacking for the first time in grad school and it was easy because it was just a bunch of your friends just showing you things letting you borrow stuff, giving you tips on like, you can go to REI and rent stuff, you don't have to buy your berry canister. was just so many tips like that in the beginning that helped set me up for going on my solo trips later on. I definitely credit that group, Adventure Club.

and then black girls trekking especially to like get me motivated to hiking different summits like I climb to the top of Mount Whitney which is the tallest peak in the continental US and I would have never even thought I could do that without all the girls at black girls trekking and like it just showed me that I can do a lot of things and so I've just been doing everything ever since.

Madeleine (07:10)
That's so amazing. It's so wild how just being able to find people that support you and are providing a helping hand in an educational, helpful, and kind way can really empower you to do stuff you never imagined you would do on your own. And then like you said, it has set you up for success for in the future. If you do want to do solo adventures or go out and do your own thing, you now have all these resources and...

you know, help from all these other people that help lift you up. And I just think that's so powerful. Just the power of community is so fantastic. That's amazing. So after school, after graduating, you then went into the professional field and went into marketing and then also started working with Outbound Adventures. Tell me a little bit about how you got into that niche and your adventures there.

Jasmine (07:47)
Yeah.

Yeah, so a few of the girls who actually were in Black Girls Trekking wanted to apply to the Dolly program that Howard Brown Adventures have. It's the Diverse Outdoor Leadership Institute, I think. And we all got certified in that and we were able to get Wilderness First Aid certified through them and get some different certifications and resources with this organization and like to the point you felt comfortable enough to take.

little kids out into the wilderness. And so yeah, now we all have it down pack and have led groups of kids like the nine day backpacking trip we mentioned before that was with a bunch of middle schoolers and high schoolers who have never been backpacking before. And we broke it down like teaching them how to safely do that, you if they wanted to do that again with their family.

just to show them on the trip that they can do some amazing things. They all climbed New Army Pass while they were there and they were just hiking every day carrying everything on their back for nine days out there and I don't think any of them thought that they can do it until they just started doing it. it's that in itself is super inspiring and the reason why I keep coming back to that.

Madeleine (09:30)
Wow, that is so incredible. Thinking about getting, first of all, the amount of patience and preparation I am sure you have to have in order to be able to lead a trip like that is phenomenal and incredible. But also the opportunity to get young kids out and doing this thing that, like you said, they probably never thought they could have done before. That's so powerful and amazing. I feel like...

A lot of the times, like lot of the people that I've connected with online, in this community of people who don't quite identify with the term outdoorsy or don't think that they could ever possibly be outdoorsy or they're too nervous to get started. A lot of this anxiety comes from people making it into adulthood and never having an experience in nature or in the outdoors. So the fact that you are empowering younger generations, like younger kids,

to do this when they're young is so powerful and incredible because then they're going to grow up with that confidence and that knowledge and feel empowered as they move into adulthood.

Jasmine (10:34)
Yeah, and that's a lot of the reason why I switched my entire career trajectory and like got back into the nonprofit world and started working at Woodcraft Rangers because they have a lot of the same, you know, similar mindset. They just want everybody to have a place to feel safe and to be introduced into different sports or extracurricular activities. Just, you know, that that extra learning ability like outside of school that they provide. But then they also have a strong

outdoor education component where they have a woodcraft camp and they are encouraging kids to just make friends and just to feel comfortable enough in nature. And I love that they do that as well and that I don't have to be writing for marketing for something trivial. It's something that actually does good positive things. So I'm happy about that as well.

Madeleine (11:30)
Yeah, that's amazing. That's so nice to feel good about the work that you're doing. Yeah, I am going through a career pivot myself currently going from the tech marketing world and feeling like I want to do something that actually means something more. So I can completely empathize with that for sure. That's just amazing. I think that both of those organizations sound fantastic and phenomenal. If people who are listening,

So this podcast want to learn more about either one of those two organizations, where can they go?

Jasmine (12:06)
So for Woodcraft Rangers, you can go to woodcraftrangers .org and then believe Outward Bound Adventures is also a .org. have to double check. But it's on my website as well. That's my full name jasmindelo .com and all my handles are the same thing. You'll eventually find it.

Madeleine (12:27)
Yeah, yeah, okay, perfect. Yeah, and I'll do the, I'll put the links and stuff in the show notes for this on YouTube and on all the podcast platforms and stuff too so people can click through. But just, think people would be really interested in supporting that and just kind of learning more. I wanna jump into, this kind of leads into the next topic which is talking about inclusivity because I feel like one of the biggest barriers to getting into the outdoors, whether you're an adult or a child or anything in between is,

it can feel really intimidating when you are just starting out. So I'm really curious to hear, I have a lot of questions for you around this, but just since we were just talking about your experience with these other two orgs and especially with youth, what advice would you give to maybe parents of young children and who want to get them out into nature outdoors and start kind of exploring that with their kids?

Jasmine (13:24)
Yeah, it's super easy to do that in LA. There's so many different groups dedicated to families and so many other different backgrounds as well where you can join and just go for a hike or go outside and play a sport or whatever. So just finding that niche in the community to connect with and grow with, that's a big thing. If you don't have it in your area,

maybe like living in more of a rural area that doesn't have a lot of just different groups out there. You can always like start your own. I have so many people who live in different areas who like never realized that there were so many other people who wanted to go outside and just hike. They just felt super nervous too because they didn't, you know, didn't have, you know, that extensive background and they didn't have anybody else to go with. So like starting that on your own and then just connecting with people online and

And then just doing it anyways, like through the pandemic, everything was like closed. I believe like almost all the trails were like closed too. It's like I had to like get really crafty and I had to like start camping and hiking on my own. And I started doing everything solo around that time and just getting over the fear of doing it by myself. Just realizing that as long as I was super prepared and like I knew what to bring and I knew that like my risk of, you know,

like danger is like much higher and you know like in a city versus the wilderness most animals leave you alone and it's the people you have to worry about that you know are strange and or whatever so yeah just go out there and do it anyways there's a million different ways to be outside it doesn't have to be like a 10 -mile hike you just be you know lunch outside in the park

Madeleine (15:19)
gosh everything you're saying is like music to my ears because that's the whole premise of this podcast right is like getting people to think about outdoor adventures differently it doesn't have to be scaling giant cliffs or like accomplishing some giant goal you can just kind of go be outside and like eat a sandwich and have you know as long as your feet are like in the dirt or whatever you know and you get a little grubby like that's it that's all you have to do I think what you were saying too about how

Jasmine (15:38)
Thank you.

Madeleine (15:50)
when you were starting to do more solo adventures is another thing that a lot of people in the community that's gonna be listening to this podcast is curious about is a lot of people want to do solo adventures and go out there, but they're scared, whether that's the wildlife or it's the potential encounters with crazy people, they just are afraid of going out and doing something on their own. What are some of the ways in which that you have

kind of overcome that fear and prepared yourself both mentally, physically to, yeah, to overcome that kind of fear.

Jasmine (16:28)
Yeah, a lot of it did come down to just like getting my, you know, certification and wilderness first aid and knowing what to do in a certain situation. There was an instance where I saw somebody like, you know, fall from heat exhaustion. Like she was about to pass out, just like super limp. And it was just like really alarming. And I didn't have that certification yet, but I did the right thing and I knew kind of what to do. I just wasn't entirely sure. And like we got her some water.

And like shaded her and got her off the trail and she ended up being okay, but like it was in that moment I was with a group of people who just didn't know what to do and I I wanted to know what to do. So just like having that game plan. There's actually been a few medical instances where now I like I go into it like an EMT where like I you know, there's no nervousness because like I have steps that I can follow in case of like

worst -case scenario I can get through it and make sure everybody is safe. So that was that was a big you know relief and know nervousness but then also yeah that knowing that you're more likely to run into danger by yourself walking home in a city versus you know being outdoors alone and just making sure that people know where you are. If you can avoid walking at night or high

hiking at night, do so. You can hike in numbers if you, if like, if that's possible, but if it's not, like just, you could do it anyways. It's, it's not as scary as you think. Just try it once at least.

Madeleine (18:14)
Yeah, I love that. And I think that one of the things that you've said too is the education and the preparation that you've done is not just for yourself, it's to help other people too. Like that's one big difference I think with the outdoor community that sometimes gets lost when...

when some of the very loud voices in the outdoorsy community are very like elitist and kind of snobby, it's people that overshadows the fact that there's a lot of people who want to help each other. Like I have heard so many stories of people who have been on hikes or adventures and they've needed help and a stranger has helped them. And there's not that many communities.

where that's the case. And that's certainly not necessarily gonna happen if you're walking home alone in the city at night. Like strangers might not come to your aid versus in the outdoors, in the wilderness, even if you are alone and you come across someone who can help you. Like the outdoor community is so helpful. like...

Truly, like most of the people are lovely and kind and will share whatever resources they have in order to help you. And it's from, it's like exactly what you were saying. You you just want to be prepared. And if you have the knowledge, you want to share it too.

Jasmine (19:17)
Yeah.

Yeah, definitely.

Madeleine (19:35)
Yeah, I love that. So we've talked a little bit about how people can feel a little bit more safe about, you know, going out by themselves and have more confidence and stuff. But I kind of want to take a step back to and just talk about like the broader outdoorsy community, because you touched on this a little bit briefly when you were talking about your experience getting plugged into some of these communities in college kind of before you found your people. It wasn't like quite clicking, right, because it just wasn't

it wasn't quite the community that you needed or resonated best with. So I would love for you to share just because I think that a lot of people would really appreciate hearing this story, your struggles of fitting into the outdoorsy community and kind of how you found that community that did make you feel like you were welcome and you were part of something. I would love to hear from you just a little bit more about that.

Jasmine (20:30)
Yeah, I think traditionally or stereotypically people assume that people who look like me aren't outdoors. so you never see it online. Like if you Google hiker right now, you'll see white cis heterosexual identifying male, you know, with their name brand hiking gear, climbing up like the steep mountain. And it's super intimidating and it doesn't really show the rest of the people who are outside. And so when other people Google

hiker or Google local hikes, you know, they only see this one type of person. feel excluded and not welcomed. But then like there are instances when they do go outside and they encounter straight up racism or microaggressions. Like I hear it a lot, especially when I'm with larger groups of color, like when I'm with Black Girls Trekking or they do a lot of partner hikes with Black Men Hike in LA. And there's

people who will come up and like ask if we're on a family reunion and just all the and it's funny to me but it's awful. yeah, it's a microaggression.

Madeleine (21:42)
You can laugh because you're like, I'm used to this, also it's like, this also sucks though. This shouldn't be how it is. Yeah.

Jasmine (21:49)
You know, there's a bit of just like, you know, ignorance and just not knowing that people like me are out there. And so that's part of the reason why I continue to be on social media, just to show, hey, there are people like me that are outside and you can be outside too. It's not just a white thing. It's not just a male thing. know, women, people of color, you've disabled people, people who aren't super outdoorsy can go outside.

and enjoy nature because the more people that we have that love nature, the more people who would go outside and take care of it and be willing to learn more about it and be more respectful to it. If we're excluding all these other groups of people who aren't, who wasn't traditionally seen to be in the outdoors, we're just gonna have this entire planet of people not caring about the planet.

we're at the point right now where we need more people on our side to, you know, be those guardians of Earth and to like, you know, put it, become passionate about nature again and be willing to learn more about it. So I'm all for encouraging everyone to get outside.

Madeleine (23:06)
There's so much that you said that I want to dive more into because you have articulated so many of these issues that I've heard from different people in the outdoorsy community over and over again. They either are saying, I haven't seen myself represented, whether that be in media, know, film, television, whatever it is of people who are hiking, you know, which, you know, isn't that much or in marketing, you know, you see these big brands that

claim to be inclusive and market towards all outdoors people, but then in their marketing, it's like just straight white men who are thin. It's like where are all the fat people, where are all the black people, where are all the queer people, like all these different communities that aren't recommended, that aren't represented, but exist out there are like not being shown in the marketing and in the models and things like that. And then you also have this

piece of social media too, of like the rise of all these social media influencers and personalities and stuff. And a lot of the people that have gained large followings also are not representative of the diverse population of people who do enjoy the outdoors. And so it's like really frustrating for people when they're wanting to get started, they go look around the world, Google, searching for all these resources and they're like, nobody looks like me.

Do I belong here? Because it seems like I don't if I'm not seeing myself represented. So I'm so glad that there are people like you who are not only showing up online and sharing their stories, but also contributing to these amazing organizations that are doing the work on the ground as well.

Jasmine (24:53)
Yeah, and I do want to say that there has been more representation like, you know, as of in the last few years, like you can like with it, like within the decade, like it just kind of exploded, just people being interested in the outdoors in general. But there has been a lot of pushback, like every time you do see somebody who is different, you know, diverse than what they're used to in those ads, you do get a lot of like hateful comments in the comments.

of social media posts and are people questioning like why is that person out there? So we still have a long ways to go, but I do want to recognize that we have come a long way at least like with these organizations and with social media and having more influencers who look like me. I'm not an influencer, but like other people with more of a following that like dedicate their all their time and energy into just showing people that they're out there.

you

Madeleine (25:53)
Yeah, I love it. And that's like a huge reason why this podcast exists is I want to amplify those stories and those voices through the platform that I've generated. Like let's get y 'all like actually out there and like showing that like the outdoorsy community looks like them and looks diverse, just like the world that we actually live in. It's not this like cookie cutter definition of it. You mentioned, you know, that you've

You know, we've all seen hateful commentary online and just nastiness. You've experienced microaggressions and I'm sure more than just microaggressions outward racism. How do you manage that and navigate that and stay so positive?

Jasmine (26:39)
I think because I find a lot of things funny and absurd, it kinda glosses over things and maybe that's just a coping mechanism to things because I've been in situations where yeah, they were screaming at the top of their lungs the N -word at me from far across for no reason. So you're just like, I'm laughing because it's so ridiculous, it doesn't make any sense. And so I just, I kinda live life that way where it's just like, you know, these random terrible things will happen and I still

Madeleine (26:43)
Yeah.

Jasmine (27:09)
still have a life, I still want to enjoy my day, and I don't want people to ruin my trip that I may have saved all this PTO for. I want to, you know, just enjoy myself. So, yeah, that's kind of how I handle things. That's how you have to handle things when you live in a world like what we do today.

Madeleine (27:30)
Yeah, I mean the level of thick skin that you've accumulated is admirable, but also I wish it wasn't the case. You I wish that you didn't have to deal with that kind of crap. For people who maybe haven't had as many experiences of like overt racism in the outdoors because they haven't been outdoorsy and that's like one of the barriers that is preventing them from exploring more.

What advice do you have for them? Because I think that that's a very real fear and a very valid fear of like, well, I want to get out there, but I'm afraid of experiencing this kind of negativity and blowing my PTO or, you know, like having my trip ruined because while you are able to articulate this and you've managed this with like such grace.

Jasmine (28:12)
Yeah.

Madeleine (28:20)
that's not the case for all people like I'm sure there's a lot of people where that would cause a lot of anxiety and completely derail a trip for them or whatever it might be or just put them off to the outdoors forever. What advice do you have for people who are just wanting to get started but are fearful? Yeah, what advice would you give them?

Jasmine (28:39)
I want to say that it doesn't happen like every day and all of the time. It's not like super prevalent. You mentioned it before, like most of the outdoor community is super welcoming and you know, the majority of my experiences has been amazing. It's just those few that I think, you know, echo kind of louder just because they're so ridiculous and dramatic and awful. you can't let that stop you from wanting to go out and just commune in nature.

and just enjoy the outdoors. I just, you start off in your local area. You kind of know what areas to kind of avoid in your area, like off the bat. If you're traveling, the more populated the area, the more diverse it's gonna be. So you are a little bit safer. starting off with national parks, I think is a great idea to just have more open -minded people who are a little bit more well -traveled versus like the

smaller areas. I don't want to like completely also cut off like you know state parks or local parks but you just that just tends to be the case when you do grow out in those areas. Just don't let it stop you continue to to go outdoors.

Madeleine (29:57)
Yeah, no, I think that's really good advice. It's tough too, because this is not the same, but as a queer person, I've really struggled with driving through sundown towns when I'm trying to go to, you know, somewhere that's a little bit more remote or a little bit more rural and you're afraid, you know, I always fill up on gas before, so I don't have to stop in one of these places with my rainbow bumper sticker, you know, and get gas because I'm like, God, you know, I don't know who I'm going to run into.

Jasmine (30:21)
you

Madeleine (30:25)
But there's little things that you can do like that to just kind of like prepare yourself in advance. So if you are anxious about, you know, stopping for gas and somewhere that's more rural or maybe a little bit more sketchy, you know, you can prepare yourself that way. But yeah, I think that I really like what you said of like, you know, just do it anyways. I think is really good advice, not only just to, you know, people of color, but also to people from all marginalized communities who maybe like don't.

see themselves represented and are afraid and also to people who just want to start going on adventures by themselves but are scared. do it anyways. Like that act of kind of rebellion is so empowering and just do it anyways. As long as you're being safe and being prepared, like just do it, you know, and don't do it, don't apologize for getting out there.

Jasmine (31:12)
Thank

Madeleine (31:18)
I love that. Any other advice you have for people who are feeling anxiety or feeling anxious about getting started in the outdoors just because they don't see themselves represented?

Jasmine (31:28)
Hmm.

Yeah, I really do want to encourage people to do it anyways. But then also when you're going out there, just being mindful of your environment around you. Part of planning is to make sure that you're not messing up the environment or the space that you're going out to recreate or explore. It does help to also sort of learn a little bit about the history of the land and a little bit about the place that you're going into as you're looking for things for your own safety.

just learning about the original stewards of the land, like the indigenous people. That will also kind of help you prepare as you enter into that space, just getting into that mindset and knowing what it's about, knowing what type of shrubbery or things you can find. If there was an emergency and you had to utilize those things, it's all helpful. I think all of that calms and eases your mind as you get into that space and it puts you in that right

headspace and nature.

Madeleine (32:31)
Yeah, I like what you're saying about kind of communing with nature and stuff too. I think this probably goes into kind of some of the other stuff you've done about kind of more mindful living and also maybe ties in with your veganism as well, just kind of being a little bit more mindful. I think one of the shifts that I made when I kind of started getting into the outdoors community was

I did more education about how indigenous people recreated on the land and how their relationship was in terms of recreation and like enjoying the land, not just living on it, but like playing, you know? And one of the things that I learned was that it's not about conquest. And that is a point of contention a lot of the time between the indigenous community and the people that recreate on their land is that a lot of people, a lot of...

people that look like me see the outdoors as something to be conquered or, you know, taken. And, you you hear terminology of like bagging peaks and, you know, like all this stuff, it's all oriented around like a goal or an accomplishment or conquering versus what it really should be our relationship with nature and the land that we are enjoying and having the privilege of being on is more about just.

respecting it and enjoying it for what it is and just being mindful of it. And I don't know, I feel like I could talk about this for a long time, but I'm wondering kind of what your thoughts are on that topic too.

Jasmine (34:05)
Yeah, when you put yourself into nature instead of above it, you feel more connected to it. You feel part of it you don't feel as afraid or, you know, like when you're not trying to actively conquer summits or, you know, take over land. And when you just become a part of it is when you feel more peaceful. When you can, you know, get that whole relaxation, that recharge that so many people are looking for when they're going out into nature.

Madeleine (34:12)
Mm

Jasmine (34:36)
It's that understanding and that relationship that you're talking about that I try to encourage other people to have as well.

Madeleine (34:44)
That's beautiful. So going off of that, how can we strike this balance between encouraging more people to feel welcome outdoors and feel empowered to explore the outdoors while also protecting and respecting our land? I'd love to hear your thoughts there on how we strike that balance.

Jasmine (35:03)
A lot of that I recognize that trying to connect to our youth from a younger age, just even having them go out on one overnight camping trip completely shifts their perspective on everything. They immediately know how to do so many different things on their own when they're outdoors and they learn that respect for nature. So by the time the end of the month rolls around and they're packing up for a backpacking trip, they realize and they recognize

those like steps in your you know like like the plan and prepare the the leave no trace principles they they recognize them they know them by heart and they understand why we utilize them and yeah starting out like doing that at the bare minimum for each of your friends like before you go on a hike mentioning it to them like hey this is how I roll everything that we bring into our hikes we're taking out and I'm not taking

know for an answer and be a stickler about it. Making sure everybody is entering into the nature space with that mindset. As much as you possibly can, you're not going to get everybody, but as much as possible, just do that. I think that's the beginning. That's where we combat some of those issues.

Madeleine (36:28)
Yeah, that's amazing. I like what you said about, you know, teaching our youth to as they're young to really understand the why behind some of this. was having another conversation with another outdoor educator and she has a lot of experience in like the service. like national park service and the forestry service and that kind of thing. And she's saying when she encounters people who are violating leave no trace, oftentimes it's not out of

malicious like intent, they just don't really understand why it matters. And I've encountered this on my social media community as well. You know, I'll share something about, you know, hey, we don't leave, you know, banana peels on the ground because they don't biodegrade immediately and it actually attracts wildlife and kind of explaining the why behind these rules and

guidelines is really helpful for people to actually understand, appreciate, and then follow them and enforce them with their group and their friends and their community moving forward. So I love that you're helping younger kids really understand the why behind this stuff early on.

Jasmine (37:37)
Yeah, you mentioned the whole banana peel thing. That's the most ongoing like first thing that people try to attack and they're like, it's going to biodegrade anyways, even if it's going to take so long, but it doesn't belong in that area. Like it's not indigenous to that region. And that's where that whole going back to the history of things and like just covering the basics of that land. Then you realize, you know, if a certain tree grows right here, like the Galapagos tree in California, takes up

a of water. It's invasive and it actually causes a lot of drought and know like pro -entomol force fires. So just even knowing things like that you realize the impact of everything around you, anything that you do and then anything that people previously, like settlers who brought that stuff has done. California didn't look anything like how it does today. It looks completely different.

mostly unrecognizable, but there's still elements in areas that are still the same and just knowing about them helps protect them in the long run.

Madeleine (38:45)
Yeah, that's so important. I feel like we could probably have a whole separate episode diving into that particular topic. But yeah, incredibly important. So kind of just to wrap all things up into a nice little bow here, because we've talked about so many different important topics, but it all kind of comes back down to this definition of outdoorsy and what that looks like for you. So how do you define outdoorsy?

Jasmine (39:12)
It's anybody that holds passion for nature, anybody who wants to go outdoors, it doesn't have to be, like I said, climbing to the top of the mountain. You just be outside and enjoy your local area and experience nature for yourself in any way. So, outdoorsy is a very broad term.

Madeleine (39:35)
What are some misconceptions or fears that you think people have that you would like to clear up about just outdoorsy, outdoorsy community?

Jasmine (39:45)
Like I mentioned before, there are so many amazing people out there that are super nice, willing to share water with you if you're running low or supplies at campsites. Most animals don't even really want to mess with you. They're more afraid of you than you are of them. Some look creepy and some look scary or whatever, but most of time they want to do their own thing unless they feel threatened.

And yeah, just know before you go as much as possible, whatever you can, and stay safe when you're outside having fun.

Madeleine (40:23)
Amazing. And do you have any final advice for people who don't typically consider themselves outdoorsy or maybe want to be outdoorsy but are just afraid? Any final words of wisdom?

Jasmine (40:37)
There's no right way to be outdoorsy. So if you want to go glamping and like have like those fancy, you know, camps and like make it into a girls trip, you could do that too. Just make sure that like you're doing so sustainably and you're, you know, not impacting the area that you're going to be recreating on. As much as possible, you want to reduce that impact. So just have fun and do you.

Madeleine (41:01)
I love that. Yeah, I was talking to someone else too and they're like, just, you are you having fun? Are you having fun and respecting the land? That's all you need, you know? Amazing. Well, Jasmine, this was so great. I wanna end with giving you an opportunity to kind of plug whatever's next for you. Like any upcoming projects, ideas, trips you're going on, things you wanna talk about, now is the time for you to just kinda tell us a little bit about what's coming up for you.

Jasmine (41:29)
I'm just probably going to be hiking around SoCal, taking some of the kids, students that I work with to some really cool camping spots. And I kind of want to continue documenting all that in my blog and my blog on YouTube and then photos on my social media accounts and all that could be found on my website as well.

Madeleine (41:51)
Perfect. Well, awesome. And again, for anybody listening to the podcast, all of the links that Jasmine just mentioned will be in the show notes. And also if you're on YouTube, it'll be in the like section, the description section there. Yeah, I liked your vlogs a lot because at least when I was first starting out camping and adventuring and stuff by myself, I was so thirsty for content that showed like...

Just even just what a normal campsite set up looks like or anything like that. And you show a lot. I really like, was like, I was watching your vlog about the nine day backpacking trip that you went through in the high series. And I was like, this would have been so nice to see before I ever went out on my first backpacking trip, just to see how.

just to just visually see what this even looks like. So I definitely encourage everybody who's listening to go check out all of Jasmine's links and go support her work and the work that the organizations that you work with are doing as well. So those links will be included too. But yeah, any final words of wisdom or anything else you wanna add to the conversation, Jasmine, before we wrap up?

Jasmine (42:58)
I just wanted to thank you for having me on your show. It was amazing chat and I'm just excited to see more of what you have in store in the future.

Madeleine (43:10)
Thank I mean, the same goes for you. I thank you so much for being on. I loved learning from you. I feel like you provided such interesting and nuanced perspective for our listeners. I think will be really valuable and a lot of perspectives and advice that I could never give to anybody. So I just really appreciate you sharing that and being vulnerable and open and

Educating in such like a kind and compassionate way. It's just lovely. So I thank you so much for your time

Thank you, Jasmine, so much for being with us today and for everybody listening. Just remember that however you identify with the word outdoorsy, whatever that looks like for you, you belong out there.