Episode 5 : Surprise NYC session, Natural light, new swirly bokeh and tilt lenses

In this episode of 'Switching Lenses,' hosts Esteban and Mandy introduce a new podcast format aimed at making episodes more digestible. They recount a memorable surprise shoot for Sal and Alissa Cincotta, renowned photographers and owners of Shutterfest. The shoot takes place in iconic New York City locations such as Grand Central Terminal and Brooklyn Bridge Park, culminating at Top of the Rock. The discussion explores the challenges of impromptu changes to their original plans, directing other photographers, and capturing natural interactions in dynamic environments. The hosts also delve into technical aspects, including the creative use of natural light, tilt-shift lenses like the TT Artisan 50mm 1.4, TTartisans 75 1.5 swirly bokeh lens and the unique characteristics of vintage lenses such as the Zeiss Biotar. Personal anecdotes, reflective insights, and lens recommendations provide viewers with a blend of professional tips and engaging storytelling.

00:52 New Podcast Structure

02:40 Introducing Alissa and Sal Cincotta shoot

11:32 Photographing at Iconic NYC Locations

21:00 Capturing Candid Moments

21:33 Exploring Unique Locations

23:06 Challenges and Creative Solutions

24:14 Natural Light Photography

26:00 Tilt-Shift Lens Adventures

28:18 Lens Recommendations and Techniques

31:58 Tech Time: Swirly Bokeh Lens

38:01 Reflections and Future Plans

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Transcript

0:02

and welcome to another episode of switching lenses. My name is Esteban Gill and I am joined by the absolutely beautiful, most amazing, incredible, just beautifully hearted set of toys here in Noah's basement. My goodness. Just so many G. I. Joe and G. I. Jane toys. It's just so beautiful. I love it. Oh, and Mandy's here too. Hi, Mandy. Hi. How are you doing? I'm glad you remembered me. Oh, yeah. It's kind of hard not to. Yeah. Well, it's kind of hard to Oh, no. It's kind of hard not to. That's the, that's the nice way of putting it. Yes. Yes. Yes. The Canadian way. Yes. How are you doing? I'm good. How are you? I'm doing okay. I'm We have, uh, we have a, we have a, a change of structure. Yeah. So after some feedback and after rethinking the structure of the, uh, of the episodes, um, and as someone that has been listening to podcasts for over 15 years, um, we thought that we would make them more, uh, a little bit easier to, to ingest, right? Mm hmm. Or digest, ingest. Digest. I think it's ingest. Ingest, then you digest. Uh, we're making them shorter. Yeah, so instead of having like an hour to an hour and a half episodes, we're gonna do, we're gonna try to stick to about 30 minutes. Let's hope we can stop talking after 30 minutes. But the cool thing is that we're going to be, we're, it's, this is going to, we're still going to talk about everything that we want to talk about. They're just going to be set up in a smaller structure so that you can, you can click on and off of them. Um, yeah. Breaking up them a little bit. So hopefully, I mean, our intro is already three minutes long, so we're at two minutes. Relax. Yeah. And the intros are very important because we're letting our listeners know what. Yeah. So if we keep it under 10 minutes, I think we should be good. It gives us 20 minutes for content, 10 minutes for the outro, so we've got 10 minutes of content in the middle. It sounds like every other podcast where it's like 10 minutes of ads, a three minute podcast, and then not a word from our sponsor, here's another 10 minute ad. True. Uh, yeah, so, so you'll, I mean, we'll, we'll be. We'll be putting up the topic in the title so you can kind of have an idea of what we're going to talk about. Um, and today we want to focus on our shoot with us segment that we've been talking about, which is one of my favorites because we get to talk to the audience about it. A couple of challenges, things that we've done, maybe a wedding or a, uh, uh, any sort of shoot. Last time we talked about your shoot in Italy. Yes. And today, what are we talking about today? Alyssa and Sal. Alyssa and Sal? Yeah. Who are those people? Um, they are the owners of Shutterfest, where we speak at in St. Louis. Yes. So back in May, I believe, um, Alyssa. hired you to shoot a surprise shoot with the two of them for Sal's birthday. Yes, I was over for birthday. It was, I don't know if it was a birthday. Maybe it might've been an anniversary. I don't know. It was, it was for Sal's birthday. We went to a birthday dinner after the shoot. And so, so it was for Sal's birthday. So if you, if you're not familiar with who Alyssa and Sal are, they are the owners of, of, of Shutterfest, just like Mandy said, they're amazing people. And when She reached out to me and asked if we could photograph them. It was kind of scary. Yeah. Because they're kind of a big deal. Yeah. Like they're, they're, I mean they're, They're just awesome people. We've always been fans of them. We obviously speak at their conference. Um, and we just love the entire community that the Shutterfest community has. We love going there. We love hanging out and partying all uh, whenever they have it. But just the idea of shooting them or photographing them is just kind of, kind of crazy. And I thought it was a joke at first and I'm like, wait, why would they want us to photograph them? Like it just doesn't make any sense. They have all these like, well actually They had told, I think you, you were there when they told us that the only other person that has photographed them was Michael Anthony, who was a insanely talented photographer in, I think he's in California. He might've, I think he moved to, to Texas, uh, recently, but. It's a lot of pressure when someone says, yeah, this is the only person who's photographed us and he's amazing. Yeah. So, but now's your chance. Don't fuck it up. I think that was her way of saying, well, only. Only he's, he's photographed this, so don't, definitely don't fuck it up. Um. I think we did alright. Yeah. Yeah. And, and the thing is that, so one of the things that I, I, when I talked to Alyssa is that, she says she really enjoyed just sort of like how out of the box, how um, our styles are kind of, you know, like we're shooting with like all different kinds of lenses. Like we're putting things in front of, um, of like the, the lenses. Like there's a lot of different stylistic things that we do with our work. Yeah. And, and, and that's what, what she said. And I, I really, it was very flattering and, and I loved it. But again, it was just one of those things where I was just shitting my pants the entire time up until the time that they showed up, especially, I mean, it's, how's it He's a canon, I think they call him Master of Light or, um, and he's just an incredible person. He's also a very, uh, New York person. He's originally from Brooklyn. So he kind of reminds you of like, sort of like how I am a little bit. Um, but I think he's more New York, more Northeast than I am. So it's very intimidating, um, especially knowing that. He hires us to speak at his conference every year, so. Yeah, because I feel like not only is like the reputation about shooting them on the line, but maybe if we really fucked this up, they're going to rethink us speaking at their conference. Listen, uh, we hit the photo, so you're not invited to Shutterfest anymore. And I'm not sure if we mentioned this, but it was a surprise shoot for Sal. Yes. So I'm not sure if we said that yet, but Alyssa reached out because it was all a surprise. Yes. So all the planning was basically between you and Alyssa. Yes. Until he found out about the shoot. Like the day before, or whatever it may be. Yeah, so the way it was, it was, um, when Alyssa first reached out, she was like, Oh, I want to go to like where he grew up, um, in the Brooklyn area. And I was like, alright, well, you know, like, we'll do like a whole day of just storytelling. Like, we'll just go to the place he grew up, we'll go to the place he kind of hung out. Um, and, and we had sort of a plan to what the day was going to go like, right? Yeah, we wanted to take them to. Coney Island. Yes. Because for our own selfish reasons, and then we realized that He used to like, hang out there. Or he, yeah, he used to spend a lot of time Coney Island, so it like fit very well with the vision and yeah, so we had this, this whole plan. Yeah, so like a lot of other of our favorite shoots once he found out Um, there was a change, a last minute change of plans, right? So, so. Which I think is what happens when photographers are being photographed. Like this is what we do. We want a level of control because, I mean, yeah, this is our business. This is our life. We all have our own opinions. And so, so Sal, took hold. So we got a text. He said, well, let's meet. So I told Sal and, uh, let's meet at Grand Central Terminal. Yeah. And. Where he wants to do Grand Central and he wants to do Brooklyn Bridge Park, right? I think it was, yes. And that other, um, abandoned station. Oh yeah, an abandoned station that was right before the Brooklyn Bridge by City Hall or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he wants to do that, but then this is where it gets interesting. And then he said. He wants you guys to surprise us with another location. The third location, but not Coney Island. Yeah. So, so that was very interesting. I remember us joking and being like, let's really surprise him and take him to Coney Island. Yeah, so, so now, so now the pressure was on. So again, we love, I mean, obviously as, as artists and as photographers, we like to be in control. We sometimes like to have some sort of a plan, but I think that at the end of the day, I know I work better when we're kind of throwing a curveball a little bit, right? Yeah. Yeah. And I would say, I do too. I like going into the shoot feeling like there's a plan and there's some control that keeps me calm. But if things are thrown off, I think I handle them perfectly fine and that's it. It's fine. I don't get, um, I don't think it bothers me too much and I can perform just as well, but I do like heading into it with some sort of idea of what's going to happen. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And I do too. I think that, I think that we all. I'd like to have some idea of what's, what's going on. I do think that I generally work better when I, I have as little information as possible. Not to a, not to a point where, where I just am completely clueless, which I usually am anyways. Um, but, but yeah, there is definitely a, a, a, an, a, the idea that I, I think I'll work better if I just kind of like walk in and like, I'm throwing a curveball. Um, working under pressure has been something that I've been doing for a very long time and I think you do a pretty good job at it too, where like, once they told us that we're like, Oh cool. Like, yeah, I'm good. Now we got to figure out, we have like a couple of minutes to figure out where we're going to take them. We had a driver so they were driving us around so we could pretty much go anywhere. So we basically had the drive from Connecticut to New York to figure out where this third location would be because we figured it out on the drive. Oh right. You were driving and I was basically like throwing ideas at you. Yeah. Like how about this? How about that? Yeah. Until we decided on something that sounded exciting and cool. And I mean, besides the fact that We have to shoot at this location and it's something we want for a portfolio or we want to, we want to be able to photograph someone there. Like, we're also worried about impressing Sal a little bit because obviously he wants the surprise. And if we're like, Oh, uh, Central Park or like, you know, we thought about that, but we were like, but also that's not a, I don't know. Is that exciting? Is he like, yeah, I don't know. It's, it's tough because. It's very, it seems very Sal to like give us a challenge, which is really cool. And I love that. Yeah. And I, I, I love the idea that, that he was like, you know what, this is what I want to do. Now I'm going to challenge you guys to really bring us somewhere where we're going to get some really cool photos. And I think we did a pretty damn good job at choosing a spot, which it was your idea to, to bring them there. Um, and it was at, What was the place? Top of the Rock. Top of the Rock. Yes. Which is like Overlooks Manhattan and um, like direct view of the Empire State Building, which obviously Iconic New York. Yes. So we wanted to stick with Iconic New York. We wanted to stick with something that would, um, I guess there's a couple different, uh, buildings that you can go to. There's one, like there's the, um, one Vanderbilt, which is more like I feel like kids and like there's, there's really cool views as well, but I feel like as far as just reading who Sal and Alyssa are, they're like very classy, like you would kind of assume that they're going to be dressed, dressed very well. So, um, and top of the rock just really fit that, like New York style, like from when it came from like an architectural standpoint, right? Yeah, it just fit really well with, with who they were. Yeah, and it was beautiful. And I, I think that was probably my favorite spot out of all the spots. Me too. Yeah, and I feel like we needed something. I remember thinking about the locations we were shooting at and they felt although obviously Grand Central and, and, and the bridge, like those are obviously very New York, but I felt like we needed something wider or You know, I remember thinking like we've got to get up high or far out from Manhattan something to show a little bit more of a sense of place and And it's great because you can go up there with all your equipment and no one cares Yeah, which was surprising because I feel like a lot of these places especially when you're paying to get to go in I mean, I guess it also depends on like how you conduct yourself. Yeah, you're not gonna show up with like To assistants and like some lights. I'm sure as soon as you had a light, I'm sure it would have, it would have been over like most of these places don't even allow tripods or anything like that. So if you're, you're, you're shooting with minimal equipment, if you're just going in and you just kind of act like you're, you're just there as a group and you just hang out with them and photograph them. And nobody, nobody really cared and it was, it wasn't super busy either. No, I feel like, I feel like with between the Edge and one Vanderbilt, they're taking all of the families away from, um, either the top of Empire State Building or from top of the Rock, which is wonderful because I prefer the two of those over the other, having been on all of them. Yeah. Yeah. If you're, I mean, if you've never been to, you should go to every single one of them because they all have their strengths. Um, but I do think that I like from like a, an architecture perspective, I think that the top of the rock was definitely my favorite one. And I, we've been to all of them. So, um, so yeah, so we, we, um, we started off at Grand Central Terminal. Yes. Uh, we awkwardly said hi. Yeah. And, uh. Nervous. Set in. For me, I was just like, oh, it's real. We have to start shooting, like, right now. Yeah. And then the first shot. I remember the first shot was like this wide shot of Grand Central Terminal. And it was just us trying to communicate with them, like, there's like all this noise and all this stuff. And like, you wanted to take a tilt shift shot. I don't even think I got one. Did I? I don't even remember. I don't think I ended up getting one. Yeah, so it probably Because we were up high, they were down low, it was busy. Yeah. I feel like, I mean, at least one, when I'm photographing and when we're photographing, I feel like you can't, you, you almost want to be in like a quiet place. You can kind of get a little more accustomed. Yes. Where you're just going, all right, well, let's start off with this. Let's get used to each other. Yeah. But it was like from zero to a hundred real quick, which is also very much like. who Sal is. And it's like, Like all in. Yeah, it's like, we're going all in, we're doing this, and like, and it just, every, the entire day was very much like, like how it should have gone based on what we know Yeah. from him. And it was just really, it was really cool because not only the shooting experience, but the photos are also very much who they are. Not only as a couple, but who they are as individuals. So yeah, so we started there. We, we did that. Um, Do you have any specific shots that you like from the Grand Central portion? Um, Yeah, see I'm trying to So we did motion Yeah, and I remember, I think that maybe I was assisting you a little bit more for a couple of the shots and I didn't shoot a lot myself in Grand Central because I remember like you were balancing your camera on your bag to get a motion shot like as a, as a makeshift tripod. Yeah. Um, yeah. Yeah. We did, we did a few motion shots. So, yeah. Which I like to do a lot. I remember I love a couple of the ones that you took. I don't really, I don't really remember getting any standout shots in Grand Central myself. We weren't in there very long either. Yeah, yeah, that was very, that was pretty quick. Um, because we did have the driver and maybe if traffic was going to hit, so we wanted to make sure we made it the best out of the other locations. Um, but we did that. We did some motion shot. I usually just, when I'm doing motion shots, I usually just very quickly go to like one tenth of a second, go to continue shutter and I mean, they're, they don't need to, um, Yeah. Be directed on posing because they're very good at it obviously Yeah, which also makes it easier when you're photographing other other photographers so we did that then we went to like the the hallway, but I was actually nervous directing them at all because They are so good at what they do I mean I forget that when you're on the other side of the Of the camera you're not You don't, you're not seeing what the photographer's seeing, you're not seeing the angles and although you might have like a feel for what might look good or not, you, you do need someone to like reaffirm or that you look okay, but I felt like weird telling them to like move their positions because I'm like, oh, they must know better than me, like, but in reality, we probably did know better because we were the ones shooting it, we were looking at them. And I just, but I just remember thinking like, I don't want to like correct them or adjust the way they're doing stuff. Like there's a listener that'll come in and be like, are you sure you want me to do this right now? I remember like feeling nervous about like, I want to ask her to move her arm or move her leg. Like thinking I wanted to like tweak some things and being like, I don't know if I should. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, not to say that they weren't, yeah, it's just because of who they are, but no, they're amazing. But they're amazing. Yeah. Yeah. And just, and I mean, yeah. It was just so cool. Just like not, not only just photographing them, but like spending the entire day with them and getting to know them outside of just like who you see from, um, like a photography perspective, like just bantering with them. Like Sal is just as cool as I imagined. And he's also, Just as big of a dick as I imagined at the same time, which is so cool because he was just talking shit the entire time and it was awesome because it's kind of how I am, like, I'm a sarcastic. Dick most of the time and you're you're making a face. Oh, you're agreeing with No But he was he was awesome like a lot of banter like making fun of you because oh, yeah Oh, yeah, like still to this day every so often I get tagged Facebook or whatever and it's just like Pick on Mandy Day. I love it. The best part about this whole day is that it was like a couple of days um, maybe weeks before we had the results from the Shutterfest speaker list. Oh, you're going to bring this up? Yes. Wow, see I thought we were going to keep this a secret to save your ego. No, my ego my ego is good. Um, so we got a list of like the top speakers and um Out of like, what is it, like 75 speakers or something like that, uh, you were number 10 and I was number 11. Yeah. Based on the ratings that the, the, the attendees gave, gave us. So that was a topic of conversation the entire time on how. So they referred to me as number 10 and him as number 11. Yeah. Um. Yeah. So a lot of banter going on, which is awesome, which also helps the mood, especially after we finished. at Grand Central Terminal, we get in the car we start talking, we start getting to know each other a little bit more. Which is a very important aspect of honestly what we do. They actually said that they were going to put that on our banners and I'm really hoping that they actually do for next year. I, I will refuse to speak at ShutterFest. I don't know if I ever told you this either, but I told Bobby this story, and she thought it was like the most hilarious thing in the world, and then she renamed my contact in her phone number a tent. Oh my god, I'm, I'm following Bobby immediately. Totally. Unbelievable. She often brings it up. You mean number 11? Oh, that's so rude. Oh, man. But, but yeah, no, so that was the first part. Then we, um, we went to, um, you went to Top of the Rock. And then we also had pizza with them, which was pretty cool. Yeah, Sal got hungry and needed to stop for food. Yeah, stop for food. We had pizza. It was pretty awesome. Which was fun shooting that. Because it's now when like you put them in like a situation where like they're just more, they're sitting down, just hanging out. Then you can get more of like that storytelling, more of that, like. Yeah, it looked like a day just like wandering New York City, really. Right. Which is cool. Which is cool for the transition periods of the gallery where you can go from one place to another. Just, uh, I always, I love talking about the. especially during weddings where you have those transition periods. So a lot of the time you see people that are, that have their cameras down when they're going from like the first look to a ceremony. But those, those areas when like somebody's walking from point A to point B, um, it's, they're super important. Because I feel like a lot of the most natural interactions happen during those times. Um, and it also helps the galleries. Yeah, because they let their guard down. They don't think they're being photographed anymore is generally what happens. Is they're like, oh, yeah, back in natural state. Yeah. So, make sure you always, uh, capture those in betweens because those are, those are very important. Um, Yeah, so, I mean, we went there, we went to, uh, to the, uh, pizza place, we went to Top of the Rock, which is beautiful, we'll be sure to post a lot of the photos from there, uh, which came out amazing, um, and then To the City Hall area, the one that was with the, I don't know, is it an abandoned subway station? Like an old, it's like an old subway station, but it, um It has a really cool, like, ceiling and there's some, there was some challenging lighting. There's a lot of conscious, like, a lot of light coming in and then a lot of darkness in the background. Well, I'm not going to be afraid to say this part. I remember we walked, we had like a pin on a map and I think we had to, we got out of the vehicle. They were going to change outfits. So Esteban and I walked. To where the location was so we would get there and maybe set a few ideas in place Before they were came over and I remember we got there and we were like, oh Sal's setting us up Do you remember thinking that it was a trick cuz we were like is this can't be the place It's interesting, but it's like I don't remember this. I remember, so we were like, no, this is a joke. He like picked like a really, really challenging spot for us. Oh, OK. Yeah. And yeah, I can see how it was, how it would have been challenging. Because I remember we were thinking that it was a setup. We were like, there's no way this is like something he's dreamed of. Like, this is for sure just to challenge us. OK, yeah, I do kind of remember that. The only thing is that, again, I could see how he would see it. Oh, from being like this amazing place because I do think that generally speaking, when you think of Sal's work, you think of off camera flash and a lot of, um, like bringing out shadows, bringing out detail and stuff. So there was a lot of that texture in there. And we photographed, you know, In a completely different way. So we're thinking of. I would have walked by that and never, ever thought about shooting in it. Yeah. No, I like, I remember us being like, this can't be it. Like we're in the wrong spot. And we confirmed with them and then they came over. And I remember we were like, oh, no, they're serious. This is where we're shooting. And then the way Sal talked about the location, I realized it wasn't even a setup. He just saw something different in the space than I would have naturally saw. And I think we got some pretty cool photos in there, but I just would have never, it was a good challenge because I would have never chosen to shoot there. Yeah. But let's make something beautiful out of this. Yeah. Yeah. And we did like we, I mean, obviously seeing how we were mostly shooting, Oh, actually we only photographed in natural light, um, or available light, right? We didn't use any flash at all. Yeah, we didn't use any flash. So positioning is very important. We're like making sure that we put them in certain areas where like light is hitting them, um, maybe backlighting them, silhouettes, like those are all things that you kind of have to think of, um, when you don't have the, the off camera flash. Uh, so, so it was definitely a challenge, but I do agree that I would have probably walked by him and like, what, what, where's the, like, crazy cool place. If we had this like big soft box and um, and some time to like actually do like some grand shots, maybe like an ultra wide, like a 12 millimeter lens with like a big dress. Like you could shoot up at the ceiling. The ceilings are beautiful. You could photograph with off camera flash and you could really bring out the detail in the background. Those that, again, and like you start to see how, how he thinks as opposed to like how, how we're thinking, approaching a shoot, which is very, uh, Uh, very interesting and for sure taught us a lot about, or at least taught me a lot about how, how he thinks and he looks at a location. So, it was very cool. Uh, and then we finished off at, uh, at Brooklyn, Brooklyn Bridge Park, which we love shooting there. I mean the James Carousel. I think we got like a shot on Washington Street maybe, and then James Carousel and, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, a lot of, uh, we did a lot of motion. We did Jane's carousel, which we used our phones to do a reflection shot. Um, I love doing a reflection shot with Jane's carousel. Um, it wasn't running, so we couldn't do a motion shot with the carousel, which I also love doing there. Um, but we, we use the, you use the tilt shift a couple times, especially at the top of the rock. Um, that was, that was a very interesting. Do you want to talk about tilt shift and how much, how much I've influenced? Your work with my cheap lens buying addiction. I mean, because you won't let this die, I will maybe somewhat admit, but, Um, the tilt shift had been on my radar long before I met you. Sure. And then I bought the Canon. Yeah, 24 tilt shift. Yeah, and it took me a year or two to switch over to the other ones. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah We'll go with that. But yeah, we can give you credit. Yeah so Yeah, so you photograph the tilt shift we you use right now. You're using a really cool tilt shift by a company I love What is it? TT Artisan Yes Yes So, yes And it's not a tilt shift, it's an eye shift A tilt lens It's a tilt lens, it doesn't shift So it's not really for like architectural stuff It's for more of like that effect That like little, uh, not little, uh, that, yeah that I don't know, what is that called? Like the little, where it makes everything look small And like, it puts everything out of focus And then the one slid of line, so Yeah Um, so yeah, this lens you've discovered and now every photographer owns it or talks about it. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, but I, uh, I think I used yours. I don't know. Oh no, I wanted a different focal length. So I had the 24, the Canon like red line one, which is significantly more expensive. Red line, like a, like a car, like a race car. That's what they call the other lenses, don't they? In Canada? Yeah. An L lens? In the photography community. An L lens? We call them red lines. Red line? Okay. Because they have a red line on them. Wow. Okay, I don't know, am I wrong? Yes. Someone needs to, someone else needs to chime in and tell us if you refer to those as red line lenses. I've never heard red line. I mean, I heard it from you. I've never heard it from anybody else. Oh. Okay. But anyway, yes, so you had that 24. Yeah, so, uh, and then I wanted a tighter focal length because I was finding it not so useful, the 24, and I decided to buy this cheaper one, and it was just as sharp as the Canon, and so yeah, I got rid of the Canon, and now this is definitely the go to, but so the 50. Who did you give the Canon to? Oh, I gave it to my dad. Yeah. I hope he uses it. He, he used it on a trip we took together, um, And I knew he really liked it. It pretty much didn't leave his body. So I knew when I got rid of it, I had to go to him. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you're shooting landscapes or architecture, a 24. Yeah. Till shift is just probably what you, what you want to shoot with anyways, because then you won't have to do any adjustments in post or in light room or any, any line adjustments. So it was perfect for him. Yeah. Yeah. It's a, it's a cool lens. And, and the one that you have now, the TT artisans, one of the cool things about it is that it's an extra, it's a 50 millimeter. But it goes down to 1. 4, which most tilt lenses don't do. I think the 24 was a 3. 5 if I'm not mistaken. The 45 is a 2. 8. So nothing really goes to 1. 4. So the effect is a lot. Sometimes too much. But it's better to have the option. Yeah, well I usually have the mentality of like, trying, of shooting wide open or close to and I've definitely now transitioned to like, I shoot that at two. Yeah. Because I don't like, it's too much of an effect when it's wide open. Especially when you're trying, it's a manual focus lens. It's not something that's just going to focus on somebody's eye. Like you're not shooting with like a, a first party lens. You're, you're essentially just really hoping that things are going to be in focus and when they are, Yeah. In focus, they're still probably going to be a little bit softer if you're shooting wide open because it's a cheap lens. Yeah. Um, so yeah, I'm, I'm like, I'm now on, on team like 2. 8 now and I'm like, all right, it's a 50 millimeter, 2. 0 to 2. 8, then you, you've pretty much got to. I mean, the effect is still there. It's dramatic. It's just the field of view is like, yeah, instead of a grain of rice, it's like a linguini. Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful analogy. Instead of a crane of ice, it's a linguine. Or maybe I should have said, instead of angel hair, it's a What? Angel hair? It's a noodle. Oh, it is? It's more on, yeah, angel hair. Yeah. So it's a very, very, it's the thinnest of the noodles. So anyway, yeah, too much time in Italy. Wow. Just like the other day you, you said bye to me in French cause you spent two and a half days in France. Yes. I'm fully French now. Oh man. So, so yeah. So, I mean, it's a, it's a really cool lens. I, it's, yeah. It's, it's pretty amazing and it kind of leads to, I mean, I guess this was tech time too. Like we're kind of recommending this, this, this tilt lens. Yeah. It's a TT Artisan 51. 4 tilt lens. They make it for like every mount, right? Yeah. Which I mean now with mirrorless, you can pretty much put any mount. Um, you can purchase pretty much any Mount Nikon. Mm-Hmm. the Z the rf. You have the Panasonic L Like, like, there's a ton of different options. Sony being the, probably the most popular one. Um, and it only costs like$225 or something like that. Yeah. So a really good price point. This company is amazing. Um, I don't know where they came from, but they're incredible because they're, they're just kind of doing some cool shit. So they have that. And then, which also leads to another recommendation from Tech Time, which is my newest lens that I just bought, which is only 269 or 279. And it's a TT Artisans 75 millimeter 1. 5. Swirly bokeh. So, I have to, I have to talk about this because this is important because I've been looking for this specific lens design for a very long time and you know this, like whenever we travel, whenever we go to any like, I don't know, like used camera, vintage camera store, I always ask the same question. Do you have any Zeiss Biotar Genna lenses? Yes. That is a very vintage lens. It's very sought after. It's very rare. And they sell for upwards of like 1, 000 to 1, 500 in like very poor condition. And the selling point of this lens is that the rendering is very specific. So it has that like very swirly look to it. Which some lenses do. As described. It's a very swirly bokeh. Um. So I've always wanted this lens. I've wanted the 50 1. 4, so I'm assuming that they're going to come out with the 51. 4 eventually, but there's also the 75 1. 5. So they, they actually basically cloned that the lens design and now you can get it for 200 and like 70 bucks. So I pre ordered it once it got announced and I just got it a couple days ago and I posted some photos in, uh, Steel and Flint of, of Lin, of Leo. And it's just such a cool, cool lens and we went for a walk with, with my dogs. Yesterday and we were taking photos of each other, uh, with the dogs and it still has a really cool look. Yeah. Yeah. It's really fun. It's, um, it's a challenge to shoot with for sure. Yeah. Well, it's the fun of it too. Yeah, it is. Especially with like the tilt lens too. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun to use, but a challenge. I, um, seeing the pictures that you sent me afterwards, I was surprised that you weren't focused at all. Cause it was very hard to tell. Yeah. But, um, the effect is very cool. Yeah, the background rendering looks really awesome and also depending on like distance to subject, which I mean, if you buy any lens, distance to subject is the first thing you should look at. Like where's the best rendering depending on where my subject is and then just stick to that if you want a really cool look. And I feel like for this lens, you didn't need to look that up. You could tell immediately by the photos we were like analyzing the photos basically. Uh, and like, okay, what looks best and for sure subject close within like within 10 feet, I would say. Yeah, definitely. Had like, and then you also have to pay attention to backgrounds. If there's like a lot of specular highlights in the backgrounds, if there's a lot of light coming through like that stuff, you're not going to get anything cool if it's like a plain white background sky or yeah. Yeah. Like nothing's going to be there. And that's the beauty of these lenses is that a lot of the time it helps you be a little bit more aware of like, how can I make, how can I make the best out of this little lens? And that's where the challenge is. And that's where I think we really learn more methodical about our shooting. Yeah. And it helps us not only slow down, but it helps us really. Really pinpoint what the strengths are of the lens. So for example, this lens that we just photographed it yesterday the Swirly bokeh one you have to make sure that your subject at the right the center Otherwise, it's just gonna be completely thrown off like everything's gonna be hazy and but that's the beauty of it It's that sometimes it's just to make sure the right light the right focus Background subjects in the right place and you get this very cool effect. Otherwise, it's lost if you're not. Yeah. Yeah. So you have to shoot for the lens as well. You have to position yourself for the lens. Um, and it's, it's been pretty awesome. So we'll be sure to post some photos on the Instagram. I mean, it's the same with the tilt lens as well, right? Yeah. Like, I think we've just been using that one for so long, but it's the exact same concept. Like we, you need to have your subject in a certain spot. Yeah. Um, to have them in focus, um, definitely you only see the effects of it shooting under certain conditions with certain backgrounds. Um, like with Alyssa and Sal, for sure from the top of the rock was probably the coolest. Yeah. You can see the, the like city, like being out of focus, like it's just, yeah. And a little miniature looking. Miniature effect. That's the, that's the term I was looking for. Oh, earlier? Oh, sorry. I didn't realize you were. Yeah, the miniature effect. Yeah. Yeah. So, you get that when you're shooting above and shooting down, so there's a couple different ways you can use that lens, too, to get that. I don't know if it's because they're different techniques, but that one's like one of the coolest ones. And they're very rewarding too. Uh, and that's one of the reasons why I always kind of banter with Sony shooters is that Sony's like this super microcomputer that tends to do everything for you. Um, and I love working for the shots because when I do get the shots, it's, it's rewarding. It's, it's awesome to like see them and go, all right, yeah. Like I did that I work for that and it wasn't the camera. Yeah, I let someone try the tilt lens At the workshop last week, and then they said they never used one before never seen one But they've created the effect in Photoshop. Yeah, and then asked me why I would use the lens I'm just like isn't it obvious? Yeah, because isn't it better to Actually take the photograph that way than to fake it later. What's going to make you a better photographer? Actually doing it in camera and working towards getting that effect. Or just taking any photo and then just doing it. It'll make you a better photoshopper. Yeah. But I don't want to be a better photoshopper. I want to be a better photographer. Yeah, I'm with you on that. Cool. We're at 37 minutes. That's pretty good, right? Do we have anything else that we, uh, want to cover? I think that's it. Yeah, I think that was it. That's awesome. I'm really excited about this new format. Yeah. I love this. Um, and, uh, huge thanks to Alyssa and Tal for trusting us and they sent us a really amazing set of, uh, uh, wine, uh, which we drank in Vermont last week. We're going to talk about that in another episode. Yeah. Uh, amazing people, uh, if you have not heard of Shutterfest, you should absolutely look into it. I would probably say it's my favorite conference, uh, throughout the year. Um, and you should definitely look into it because it's a really great community. Uh, they're very motivated. My favorite part is walking around at like midnight and still seeing people shooting. They're hardcore there. Yeah, they definitely are. But we'll both be speaking this year and, um, maybe we'll be covering it on the podcast because that's kind of, I think something else we'd like to start doing. Yeah. Um, but yeah. Maybe we'll have some guests on. Yeah. Actually, somebody requested that we do a Hot Ones episode with the two of us and Alyssa and Sal. So maybe. I mean, I wouldn't mind if this happened. Yeah. It would be fun. Petition. I will, yeah. Yeah. They seem on board, so. Yeah. It might happen. Yeah. So, we'll see. Mm hmm. All right. Well, we will see you all, or. You'll hear from us. Yeah. Hear from us in the next episode when we talk about Vermont. Thank you all for tuning in. Thank you. See you all soon.