S02E03 - with John Bratsakis

What does it take to lead through discomfort, own your mistakes, and keep showing up? In this episode, John Bratsakis, President of the MD|DC Credit Union Association, joins James in the studio for an unfiltered conversation on leadership, accountability, and the quiet strength of consistency.

They explore the professional lessons learned through failure, how presence outweighs perception, and why the ability to self-assess—honestly and early—might be the most underrated leadership skill we have. From early missteps to fostering 170 dogs, John shares personal stories that challenge us to rethink what it really means to lead through change.

www.jamespogue.com

Transcript

UNKNOWN: 0:00

Music.

SPEAKER_00: 0:05

For those of you that know John Bratzakis over in Maryland, D.C. area, you know him as a great dulcet velvet tone to come from his voice, but also a powerful mind and a way of organizing people and places and things to help elevate the professional development of many of those around him. In the conversation that he and I had in the Right Kind of Uncomfortable studios, he shared with us answers to many difficult and scratchy questions from professional development and what that looks like traditionally to some of the other variables that impact All right, I want to welcome John Bratakis to the Right Kind of Uncomfortable podcast. Thank you so much for taking some time out of your very busy schedule. People are visiting these days to join me, to join us, and to share a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what it's like to be uncomfortable in your space at times. So with that said, I want you to introduce yourself in whatever way you think is best that we, the common folk, can understand you.

SPEAKER_01: 1:26

So the standard introduction, you know, John Brad Sikas, President of Maryland D.C. Critting Association, been in critting for Jeez, 36 years now in a variety of roles from management trainee to this role. And out here in Maryland, D.C., originally from the Midwest, Indiana, Chicago area. Have family. My wife and I, we have three kids. We also have lots of dogs. We foster dogs all the time. We've got four of our own, along with some chickens and birds. And we have a lot of It can be at any other time, maybe some quail at the same time. So kind of a mix of the, you know, rural kind of things. And then just with our kids and kids are all over California, College Park, Maryland, and up in York, Pennsylvania. So it's kind of spread out everywhere, but it's also great to keep in touch and keeps a lot of variety in our life.

SPEAKER_00: 2:31

I can only imagine. How long have you been married?

SPEAKER_01: 2:34

Been married. know this really well. 29 years next month.

SPEAKER_00: 2:40

29 years next month. I assume that there's some massive plan for the 29th anniversary.

SPEAKER_01: 2:46

No, not a big plan. Just relaxing. Usually it's just kind of quiet to go. We had plans for our 25th to go to Iceland and bring the family. But then there was COVID. So I think once the youngest one's out of college, then we'll be able to think about doing that again.

SPEAKER_00: 3:08

Gotcha. And four dogs of your own. And how many do you generally foster at any given time?

SPEAKER_01: 3:15

At any given time, it can be up to the biggest we ever had was including our four. We had 17 with the litter mom. We had a couple of hangover moms that didn't quite get adopted right away. We've got seven coming this third next Thursday. But we what makes it unique is we usually get get pregnant fosters and then we get them to like eight weeks. And it's really my wife. I can't take all the credit or any credit really other than I help feed and clean a little bit. But ironically, she started doing videos to help get them adopted, threw it on TikTok, and now she's got tens of thousands of followers. Oh, wow. It's pretty funny. So it's a pretty cool thing. Nice. But it can be a lot. We've done over probably about 160 or 170 over the last five years.

SPEAKER_00: 4:11

Wow.

SPEAKER_01: 4:12

That's

SPEAKER_00: 4:13

a whole other career. It's not a hobby. This is beyond the hobby.

SPEAKER_01: 4:19

Yeah. I think it's might be or an obsession that she has, I guess, you know, but but it's fun. I can't lie. It's it really is. And then when you see him get adopted, it's a whole nother kind of thing, because usually there's families involved. So it's pretty cool.

SPEAKER_00: 4:33

So when you when you gave us your introduction, you talked about being a management trainee, which for many of us, that trainee side of our career seems like 100 years ago in time. But in memories, it's just it's 30 seconds ago. Right. It's still fresh and of our minds that way. And when you and I have talked about your professional journey, part of it that comes in is you kicked off as a younger than expected significant leader in the organization. And that was part of how you cut your teeth. And I wonder what lessons you learned there and what was taught to you, either from the mentor or the coach or the advocate or from falling on your face and having to get up eight more times.

SPEAKER_01: 5:20

Yeah, that's a big question, right? So I was blessed to be kind of fortunate to be at the right place at the right time. It was a large credit union, young leaders at the time in their 40s running the largest credit union in the state of Indiana, both the CEO, the COO, who was my boss, and the CFO. And I think the hardest part was, and maybe it's because my perspective a lot comes from athletics and you know competitive things so you're always in this mode of okay i just gotta i want to keep moving forward i want to have a career so you got opportunities and they would allow you to stumble to fail um and get back up and i think right athletics or let's say my brother was a wonderful musician you know things don't go well you get you got to pick up because there's another play there's another game there's another concert. There's another performance. But the challenge was when you're younger, you think everybody might have your back. And then at some point you realize, wow, I really thought people had my back. And one of the earliest lessons I learned was I had a big project because I was in a role that was significantly impacted the back office of the organization. And we were getting ready to launch a new product and we got right to the very end of the product and I'll never forget there was a senior management person on this team and I had asked the questions in Looking back, I knew after it happened that I didn't ask the right question. I asked the question, but it wasn't the right question. And as soon as he asked it, he said, that's it. We're shutting this project down. Oh, wow. And, you know, we're going to have to get this fixed. Went to the CEO, said, you know, I told you John was too young, you know, et cetera. So I get called to the CEO's office and he goes, so what the F happened? And I said, I don't know. I thought I asked the right questions, but I didn't ask the right question. And he just looked at me and he said, all right, go fix it. Nice. And as I was leaving, his assistant was there who is wonderful. And I had known her and I'd been there four or five years by now. And she said, good answer, Johnny. She goes, cause I've got your file right here. She goes, you know, I, I just took accountability, but had I not, the message was, had I not taken accountability, there's my personnel file and it would have been a former personnel file. I think, at that point. But they gave me the opportunity to go fix it and work on it. So that was probably my first big lesson, right? I think we learn... More so, like with managers, I've had incredible mentors, incredible examples, but you probably learn as much or more from those that weren't very good.

SPEAKER_00: 8:34

So if I'm hearing you right, that first lesson, it wasn't necessarily about the quote unquote mistake because it was more about when the time came after the mistake. I have to take accountability and I have to be able to explain why we are here and then take accountability for that. And And I guess if I'm hearing right, then stop, right? There is no, you know, bring in other people and how they could have informed me better. It's, this is what happened. This is how I understand the problem. This is what I could have done or should have done or didn't do. And then it's on me.

SPEAKER_01: 9:13

Yep. Yeah, I, you know, it's a great, it's a great point. And there were just a lot of those along the way, right? And I think I heard a friend of mine and once say the hardest part about managing is, you know, as a senior executive, especially, you know, you're always looking at the 20,000 foot level, but every now and then you gotta go down to the 50 foot level. But the hardest part is knowing when to pull back out, back up to that 50,000 foot, 25,000 foot level. And I find that, right, because we've all kind of been there in certain roles. So it's easy to kind of get back into the swing of it. And the accountability part of the lesson to me went back to sports. I remember I had a specific, my job as an outside linebacker was to stop the option play. Like, don't let the guy get outside you. I thought I was making a decision. I went inside.

SPEAKER_00: 10:14

So those of us who are not as up to speed on the option play, like I'm a fifth grader, what is that?

SPEAKER_01: 10:21

So the quarterback and the running back start to move all, let's say to the left and the quarterback will hold onto the ball till he's either hit and he'll pitch it off to the running back or he'll keep it and cut up and run inside of you. My job was to watch for the guy running around the outside. I went where I wasn't supposed to, to the quarterback guy scores a touchdown. I come off the field and our head coach just is screaming at me. And I finally just looked at him and I, he goes, do you know what happened do you realize I said I was there I saw him score I know I don't know what you want me to do and my defensive coordinator came up and he just put his and he was the screamer normally and he just put his arm around me he goes you know what not to do again and that was all he said and again that was just like that CEO when he told me go fix it it wasn't I don't need to tell somebody if they mess they know I think it's how do you and that's right the big change, I think, in management and leadership is it's become more of a coaching analogy than it is do what I tell you to do.

SPEAKER_00: 11:34

So you and I have talked a lot about sort of generational challenges in the workplace with the different generations being there and the management of them and so on and so forth. And you said something that I want to just sort of double click into that. I don't have to tell people when they mess up. They know. Do they?

SPEAKER_01: 11:56

Well, probably not 100% of the time. But when it's an issue like that, or I think if it's something that's significant, most of the time, I believe they do. And they might be embarrassed to admit it. None of us like to admit mistakes. And I get that. I think part of that is because, you know, it's hopefully people, and especially I think for some younger folks, is to be self-aware. Sometimes I think we're either taught to be self-aware, you get that from who you've been mentored or where you've worked, or you don't, and it's important. So I do have found that most people understand, and if they don't, when you point it out, the next time they recognize that it's happened for that. But yeah, I do think, again, Not everything's as glaring as, you know, dropping the ball on a big project or letting somebody score the touchdown or, you know. But there are those cases where I think... people know that I had a responsibility. And that's part of clarity as a leader, right? Is giving clarity of what's expected. And then norm, I would say in most cases, people will recognize when they don't do what is expected.

SPEAKER_00: 13:23

So if in the big situation, someone knows I didn't meet the standard, I didn't do what needed to be done, so there's knowledge of I didn't make it. Do you think that there is equal visibility self-awareness that of what I did to not accomplish the goal. Do you think that that is an equal measure to we didn't win? We didn't meet the standard. We didn't meet the deadline. That clarity, let's call that 90%. Do you think there's the awareness of here's how I interacted in it in order for it not to happen? Do you think that's at 90%? That

SPEAKER_01: 14:13

I would say no. I think a lot of times we may not recognize what we did or there's times where people just don't believe that that contributed to whatever it was. You know, I did my part. This is what I was asked. That's the role. And I think that's the challenging part with leadership sometimes is you have to, and you have to do it in the moment or very close to the moment. If somebody isn't, doesn't recognize their contribution to whether it's the success or whether it's to the challenges of not meeting the goal and, you know, speaking to it while it's fresh and while it's there versus waiting a long time.

SPEAKER_00: 14:55

I think that's a hundred percent right. You know, I was talking with a client yesterday and saying that you have to have a process that is solid and strong and like a strong skeleton and then the meat and tendons and skin you put on it may make each person look different but in this case it'd be no matter what project we have afterwards we have a review to say how we did if we did really well who's accountable for how we did well and we're going to celebrate them and we're going to learn from that and if it didn't go well we're going to ask the same kinds of questions see who's responsible for that and then you know figure out how to celebrate learn from from from that as well but the problem has to be the same. I'm not altogether certain that some colleagues know the part of humility that is taught. They may know the part of humility that is in their bones, but then how do I activate on that humility? And how do I activate on that sort of what's next, right? I'm willing take accountability it was me but then what am i what's next you know

SPEAKER_01: 16:08

yeah i was told early on as a manager or supervisor or whatever early on that you know when you come to work john no matter what's going on at home or no matter how bad your day is whether somebody else has caused it whether you know you're ultimately responsible for those the your team um you don't let your team see that. Cause you know what? If you're having challenges with me, my boss, it was like, that's not their problem. Your problems aren't their problems. And they'll feel that if you, if you bring that with you and that that's one of those nuggets that kind of always stick out that it can be tough. It can be frustrating. Um, but you just gotta, you know, that that's not your team's issue.

SPEAKER_00: 16:58

How do you, how do you balance that? Um, lesson with the vulnerable leader, the transparent leader, the quote unquote authentic leader, that it's important for you to be a full sort of human. And if you had a bumpy conversation with your boss that kind of punched you in the gut and you're not feeling at your best right now, you know, or, you know, one of the kids called you and said whatever they said, and now your day went from a nine and a half to a 7.2 you know how do you balance out the your challenges aren't their challenges with today's version of being authentic vulnerable transparent leader

SPEAKER_01: 17:45

well I so being transparent if somebody asks you know is everything okay what's going on you know just saying it's all good just you know having a rough day but I think being authentic is not being fake right and I mean I think I think you can maybe not have the energy level of a 10 every day or a nine and a half. You can have that energy level of seven, as long as you're not bringing other people down with you. Right. That's not, I mean, you know, the role. And I do think if now, if I've had a challenge with, let's say my board where we're having an issue with some of, you know, we haven't hit the mark on something. Yeah. I will go back to the team and say, okay, everybody, here's, you know, where we are. You talked about doing, you know, that process we get together after every event. and talk about what was successful, what wasn't. And we've been, knock on wood, very fortunate to do some really powerful programming that's at a national level that we get feedback all the time that this is as if it's a national conference or a program like when we did our DEI certification with Georgetown University. We do that. The hardest part to your point is when you're doing that it's about yes we know the things that we've done well but what do we need to do to make it better i think for some that's well but we did a really good job it's like okay that is what we did but we've got to look at how do we improve how do we keep moving forward how do we make it different um where were the gaps if there were gaps and that sometimes i think is hard for people to to get because it can be viewed that you don't appreciate what's going on. So that's, for me, I'm just very upfront. And that was hard when I started here because some of our team were like, so you don't think we're doing a good job? It's like, no, I didn't say that. I just said we had a great event, but how are we to make it better? How do we make it where people want to come back?

SPEAKER_00: 19:47

Yeah, I think that mindset can be difficult for some people to absorb, that you're continually critical, continually trying to get better, and it can feel to them, depending on their own life experiences, like I'm doing the best I can and he just keeps coming down on me. And teaching that this is a continual improvement mindset, right? And I think that, you know, I can see very clearly how some of that comes from an athletic mindset. Well, that play is over. That game is over. The championship we won last year, that was with that team. We had a whole different team now, right?

SPEAKER_01: 20:25

Yeah. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. That's right where, you know, I think exactly where that mindset comes from. And I think you find that in great organizations, too. You find that with credit unions that are incredibly successful. And the year you had a great year, well, guess what? Your financials start at zero January 1. That's right. And working at, when I was at Baxter Credit Union, their board were a lot of Fortune 100, 500 company senior executives. And when we went through the great recession, session, we as an industry had what they called stabilization. There was money in the insurance fund that had to be replenished for failures and different things. And we were told that the ratios from the examination standpoint will be looked at pre stabilization expense and post. But for your exam, they're only going to look at pre stabilization because that's an unexpected loss you're going to have to take. So the gentleman was the CFO of one of the large corporations. He looks at us after the exam and he says, well, I think we should give you all 12 months. But after that 12 months, the only thing that matters is what's the bottom line? What's the final number? Not pre-post. Because when I have to do quarterly earnings on Wall Street, I don't get to say, well, you know, if it wasn't for this downturn in the economy, we would be performing a lot better. And that, again, was another great lesson of it's tough, but you got to suck it up.

SPEAKER_00: 22:04

Yeah. Yeah. And, and there, there also is there, it's a slight sort of genderization to it, right? So terms like suck it up, um, athletic connection, especially as we go backwards when there weren't as many, uh, ladies in athletics as there are today, athletic examples and coaching examples and the lessons that come from that, that we would then use in business, um, would be, it would feel different to different people. And one of the lenses that might make that feel different might be gender as people sort of came through, the phrases that we've learned, the examples that we use, et cetera, et cetera.

SPEAKER_01: 22:44

Yeah. And I do get reminded of that often by some folks. I think, you know, hey, to your point, like what's an option play? Like, exactly. But I think about that, whether you're a musician, if you were in theater, right? Theaters, I think, watching my daughter go through that, you know, it's probably even more devastating because, you know, you're fighting to be part of a team or for a part. And there's only one. Right. In football, there's 11 spots on that side of the ball that you can try to fight for, but there's only one lead. Right. And in a play or a movie. So that's

SPEAKER_02: 23:25

that's

SPEAKER_00: 23:26

the analogy to competition crosses all those barriers. Right. Are all those different genres. So, uh, Let me do a hard switch here. You and I have talked about a few of your paths and journeys, and I wonder if we might be able to explore one that has been happening for you for a while now. When I saw you the first time, I'm like, okay, no, John, saw him at ACUC. And then I saw him next, like, you look a little different. What's going on with you? And I couldn't really make sense out of it in my head, but then you told me a story. So I wonder if you might talk a little bit about that journey. And then to some extent, what are the lessons that have

SPEAKER_01: 24:04

come out of that. Sure. So you're referencing my weight loss journey, which I don't, you know, it's something where it was just became personal. You start looking at pictures, you start realizing like, Oh my God, what happened to me? Um, but again, it, it's a challenge, right? And it's something that only we do to ourselves. Um, it's, it's an easy formula. You want to lose weight. It's simple formula, eat less, move more, but you got to execute like anything. And so I just started that process changing, you know, habits, changing what I was doing, And yeah, it was a slow journey. It was about, you know, 24 months, 70 pounds. Wasn't until you get to like 50 that people are like, hey, you know, like my assistant was like, you know, your pants really don't fit. You really need to get new pants. So, but again, it gets back to, yeah, I used to be very disciplined. I mean, 20 years of working out all the time and being competitive in sports and doing that. And then somebody said, well, well, life gets in the way. I'm like, well, I let life get in the way. Um, there's no excuse. Yeah. So just, you know, turning to that and trying to focus on that and, um, just realizing I'm not getting any younger. Um, so it, that, that's where that was. And just applying that, you know, Hey, got to get up early again, got to just watch what you're doing, um, and focus on that. And, uh, yeah, people have been very kind, but it was, it was interesting. Like the first year, it wasn't very noticeable. I, I could feel it or, um, cause right. You put on a pair of pants or a belt and you, you realize, Oh yeah, that worn out notch is now farther down than it used to be, which is nice. Um, so that, yeah, so that, that's, that's been, and it's been a journey, but again, it was, what's the longterm goal knowing that it's not going to happen overnight. Um, it wasn't something that was, you know, it was going to be a process. It was going to be, um, something that was, you know need to focus on and it's still a battle I think I told you earlier before we started recording we had our big gala last night and they have these incredible desserts out that everybody's raving about and my god I'll just try one or it would have been probably try all of them you know things of that nature so

SPEAKER_00: 26:33

did you do you find that on the in those hard moments whether it's the workout moment or they get up early or they drink more water or they don't get dessert moments and you're digging in to yourself to find some self-inspiration, do you go all the way back to athletic examples or do you go slightly further back, not as far back, to business examples where, hey, I stayed up all night to produce a great presentation. It didn't go well and I had to get a better presentation. I stuck to it. I did it then. I can do it now. Or do you go way back to the athletic stuff? Where are you being motivated? I think

SPEAKER_01: 27:11

probably both. The weight loss issue is probably probably more to my athletic stuff, because it used to be, you know, we were like, God, why do you work out, or why do you lift, or why do you, you know, it was, I remember it was, you know, you get up, I used to get up at 4.30, 5 o'clock in the morning, and, you know, when I first got married, because that's what we could do, and we had my first, our daughter, and you go through that, and that's what you did, and then we, child number two, and then three, right, and then you just kind of, you realize it's not, there's no one thing, it's just that combination, and it's always like, well, okay, I'll just have it this time. I won't have it next time. And then it's like day two comes by. Well, I'll do that on day three or day four. And then next thing you know, you look back and they're just like putting off a presentation. Well, I'll work on it tomorrow. Honestly, that happens. Our calendars get clogged. Somebody once talked about, this gentleman talks about 164. It's the number of hours in a week. And if you say yes to something, you don't get 160 So, you know, what are you going to do, you know, in that 168 is sleeping and exercise and work and meals and interactions with friends. And that probably was a big piece of what I go back to about. Okay. So cherry blossom, our cherry blossom race is coming up in April. If I want to do the 5k, I better start taking it seriously now so I can, you know, get ready for that.

SPEAKER_00: 28:45

So for the people listening that may be going through their own challenges, I can tell you from a presenter's perspective, we have the nine ways in which I think that people connect and disconnect. And I ask people for feedback on that. What am I missing that connects people and disconnects people? What should be number 10? What should be next? And while it's not number 10, I think it would come as a next tier and very important to people, they would say physical appearance. And what they mean by that, when I sort of dig into the conversation, it can be a little scratchy and uncomfortable to them, but they'll say, I'm a bigger person. And when I walk in the door, I know that impacts people, whether they think that I'm lazy, whether they think that I'm not smart, whether they think that my fashions aren't on point, whatever it might be. Did you feel like you... And I will also say seven or eight out of 10 of those comments that I've received are from women, not from men. And so what is your reaction when I say that? Do you agree that size has this impact? And do you think that there's a differential for gender?

SPEAKER_01: 30:06

Wow. That's a big question. Um, so yes, I think attractiveness matters, right? You being a very handsome man getting on stage. Yes, absolutely. Right. It grabs it. It invites people, right? It draws their attention. Um, so when you start speaking, you already have their attention. Right. And I do think that matters. I think there's a lot of that presence piece last night at the gala, there were, three CEOs standing next to me, they were all like six, three, six, four, right? And then there's me. And you can tell the women looking up and smiling at those folks and talking, right? You can see that. And even when I think men, no different when there's a presenter, I think, and then, so you can look the part, but then do you have the presence, the confidence when you walk into the room, right? a lot of times somebody can be attractive if they walk into a room, but it's people that walk in with confidence, not because they say they have it, right? My favorite quote from an athlete was, you know, if you're good, you'll tell other people, and if you're great, other people will tell you. And that's kind of that confidence of when you walk into a room, you're comfortable in your own skin. Regardless of my size, I've always felt comfortable in who I am. and how I was brought up and the lessons that I learned as a kid from my family. But that's also not easy for everybody, right? As you know, when you're on stage, you have a command, you have a presence. When you know your speaking tone and your intonation and the way you talk to the group and how you can shift your message, you do that incredibly well. You can go from the happy, smiling James to the dead, serious James you know, in a snap of a finger and it's impactful and it matters. There are speakers that are like that. And that's what I've tried. That's where I think authenticity comes from. People will sense if you're you. And over the years, that's when people have been kind to say that about me, but I only know how to be me. And I think people would know if I'm not.

SPEAKER_00: 32:36

So if I'm hearing you right, if, If I'm Jamie instead of James, and instead of being six foot something, I'm five foot something, but I weigh the same. So I'm a rounder person, if you will. And I come to you and say, hey, I think I'm not getting opportunities or I'm getting negative looks or feedback in part because of my size. You might say, look, let's talk about these other factors. Let's talk about your presence. Let's talk about your confidence. Let's talk about what you produce. When you produce it, are you meeting deadlines? when you walk in the room do you walk in the room like God designed it for you right you know and behold I am here and where is my theme music or do you walk in differently you would if I'm hearing you right you might say to me let's look at these other things and see where they are because we can't change James or Jamie even if you wanted to change your size and I don't know if you do but if we wanted to we can't change that overnight but these other pieces maybe we can do some work with these my paraphrase what you might say to me. Well.

SPEAKER_01: 33:43

Yeah, absolutely. To your point, I can't be six inches taller. I'd love to be. I was told that in college. Like, hey, if there were two things, John, you could go far and play D1. I'm like, what is it? And they're like, if you were 60 pounds heavier and six inches taller. I'm like, well, it's not going to happen. But to your point, you can't change what you can't change. So yes, I would focus on those. other things. Because I do feel there's been plenty of great speakers that aren't the best looking at all. I think what it really goes to is when you step on stage that you have a command of what you're speaking about, that you have that connection, and that you don't worry about what you can't control. Because if you do, then I think people will sense that. They'll sense that there's something that you're not confident about and if you can't control it you can't control it

SPEAKER_00: 34:43

can't control it so let me take another did a hard left last time let's do a hard right this time and talk a little bit more about sort of family or family ish ideas concepts impacts to our lives and as I was getting prepared and researching more about you I saw this connection that you have a children's miracle network and I'm interested in why why children's miracle network why is that important to to you. What have you gotten out of that relationship or out of that work with them? What's all that about?

SPEAKER_01: 35:16

Sure. So, you know, Children's Miracle Network is for credit unions is kind of the charity, common charity of choice around the country. And for me, having three kids and being blessed where no one had any significant illnesses, they had a few things. And so we have used the Children's Hospital before. But you realize how blessed you are and how, but if my son wasn't there for six days, but more like six months, like the kid next to the bed next to him, that there's somewhere that they can go to get the care they need with the compassion that they need, the empathy that the family needs. So that kind of hooked me. And then as I get into this role out here and we do the fundraiser, what you realize that this network of what credit unions do, we talk often that it's not what we do. It's not how we do it. It's the why. Why do we do it? And right. It's our passion. Our purpose is giving back to our communities, taking care of our members. And Children's America Network is one example that there's hospitals throughout the country. So there's this massive network. And when you think about the fact that credit unions have raised$18 million this year for CMN for hospitals, over 200 million over the last 20. When you think about those things and you see that it also aids where we don't think about is when we go on Capitol Hill in my role and we get to talk about here's how credit unions collaborate, which is different than other industries. Here's how we work together to do that and make a difference in our communities. It resonated because Every credit union has their charity that they work with, the philanthropic. Gigi Hyland, who's the foundation executive director, always talks about, she used to talk about strategic philanthropy. And I've always thought that was great. What philanthropy is strategic for your organization? And if credit unions are going to give back to their communities, Children's Miracle Network hospitals are one way to do that. And it's one way to do that. one that's easy to describe in the aggregate.

SPEAKER_00: 37:44

Before we start recording, I mentioned to you that I went to the Bourbons, Bands and Barbecue event that Caroline from Cornerstone Credit Union League had. I was driving back and I've always known there's a CMN hospital kind of around the way. It's right over there, a mile or two down the road. But I'm driving back and I realize, man, that thing is big. And that's a lot of sick people, a lot of sick children. And it shouldn't be so big, right? But unfortunately, it has to be. But wouldn't it be nice if it were much smaller?

SPEAKER_01: 38:25

Right. Well, and then there's that connection between health and finances and how finances affect your health on both sides of it, right? So the devastating cost of healthcare if there's a significant tragedy or a significant illness for somebody is really staggering. So the more the hospital can do to help have the technology, have the expertise, have the facilities, so they not only can help families get in and out quicker, they can get healthier faster, which also helps financially Um, and so, yeah, so there's so many threads that weave together in that situation.

SPEAKER_00: 39:17

I mean, to your point, there's a serious connection between your financial health and your physical health.

SPEAKER_02: 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 39:24

So as we're wrapping up here, I wonder if, um, you might have a question or two for me that has been bouncing around your head that may come out of the conversation that we've had or something that from before that you want to throw out on the table.

SPEAKER_01: 39:39

Um, so I guess I would just start out the one that I know I had mentioned earlier was you've been working with credit unions but you kind of work all over the world with different organizations and some at times credit unions might feel that you know we're unique in our organizations and how we have to deal with folks I don't subscribe to that per se but what has been your impression is it different our credit union is different both as individuals organizations, but also as a collective industry?

SPEAKER_00: 40:13

Well, one thing I would say is that credit unions were quicker to the table to start using language that was more community-based and more sort of cultural language before we even used the word cultural, right? The language around members, right, is a different thing. The language around families, the language around the connection between the people, why it is we like this. And it comes, I guess, you know, clearly out of the roots of of why credit unions existed to begin with. So I think that that is one piece that is accurate. And what the challenge I think in today's marketplace with that is that when you have to have a conversation about how something that's cultural or community-based impacts business, there's a translation issue that can occur, right? Why are we doing this? That seems all touchy feely and nice and warm and sticky. How does that impact my business unit? Why should I be involved in that? That's for the community engagement people. That's for the membership people. It's not for the operations people or the finance people or the marketing people per se. So I think that that translation issue sometimes creates distance in the ability for organizations to be hyper productive and profitable.

SPEAKER_01: 41:36

So we, you, you, when you were at our convention this year, um, we had one of the emerging leaders, our young professionals spoke and, um, you spoke, uh, shortly after that to help close out. And that young professional made a comment about the audience. Um, and that, well, I think 60, 65, 63% of us were closer to death than, um,

UNKNOWN: 42:06

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01: 42:08

Had less of our lives ahead of us. of workers or newer professionals a difference in how they're approaching and their expectations of of you know their future of moving up in an organization or the what they feel is expected of them and what they what they believe should be expected of them it seems that times are listening to what you're saying is that sometimes there's a disconnect between what they think should be and maybe what their supervisors or managers feel it should be.

SPEAKER_00: 43:20

So, yeah. So let me just go half a step backwards and go forward. I think that there are wobbles in communication that occur. There are wobbles in connection that occur. And the reasons for those wobbles are one of those nine pieces that I mentioned before. One of them is age. So in that particular circumstance, you had a young professional exceptionally Right. Articulate all of the wonderful things. Right. And she made a comment that scratched a significant percentage of the people in the room. And what happens in general is there's a there's a nervous laughter that occurs. There is a well, it's true, but I'm still not comfortable with being said out loud. Laughter that occurs. Right. And I think that that's that's all OK. Right. And we have to I'm going to be brave enough, courageous enough to get on the stage. and say something that is a bit edgy, a bit funny. Most comedy is a bit edgy, right? The best comedians are really edgy. So then I have to own the rest of it too. Let me put that example over here for a second and come over to a different one. There's a time, and maybe that time is still now, when people would say, essentially, middle-aged white men have ruined the world, right? And there'd be nervous laughter, hee-hee, ha-ha, about that. But what we're doing is we're scratching the surface that group, right? And we may be telling the truth from our perspective, right? We may be saying those are the folks with the levers of power and influence and they are the ones that have been responsible for the policies and practices and procedures in some, right? But the language that we use is a bit more comedic and it's shorthand and it's TikTok and it's 120 characters and it doesn't have context. So I think in the absence of providing the context and all of those other pieces, we also may not understand and what we're producing, which is distance between group A and group B. And if we want to win, we have to create connections between group A and group B. So you said what you said. So I'm going to say what I said, because I want to figure out how we can bring this thing back together. So in the context of this particular young professional, I said back what I said on the stage. I think I did maybe two or three comments about it, right? As I'm going through and I would just, hey, and you remember what was said over here about 63% of you all being closer to death you might want to pay attention those kinds of things right just to create some warmth around it and then just as importantly i have to find her after i talk and i have to say no we're good right one way or another i say yeah hey we're good i appreciate you giving me some foundation to try to make some additional points and then make myself available to her to help uh her along her path what business do i have using you and your information to make my presentation richer and not offering myself to help make you better. That seems quite selfish, right? I'm going to use your stuff, but I'm also going to make myself available so that you, I, we can be better. At the end of the day, for me, it's how do we come together? How can we be more deeply connected? Because deeply connected teams and organizations win bigger and they win more often.

UNKNOWN: 46:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 46:37

Yeah, and again, to your point, it reminded me of that person sitting in the audience was probably uncomfortable and makes me think back to how when you and I connected the first time and my involvement with AACUC was, you know, it's all about what you learned and what I learned from my perspective was, especially in 2020, you got to learn pretty quickly to get comfortable being uncomfortable because that was the reality of and that applies to everything not just what was happening in 2020 but I think in that instance right and I think as leaders you have to be you have to be comfortable being uncomfortable because you might not make popular decisions they don't all work right your relationships don't always work so you gotta find a way to get comfortable with that

SPEAKER_00: 47:33

I think that you're 100% right I also believe that since the before 2020, too many of us became comfortable making people uncomfortable. Without

SPEAKER_01: 47:44

question.

SPEAKER_00: 47:45

Right. And a lot of people got kicked in the gut, punched in the liver, kicked in the groin, slapped in the face. And that was the norm. And it seemed like, OK, that's fine. You know, we're going to have a young person's panel and somewhere in that young person's panel are going to be a few sideways insults to older people. We're going to have a women's panel and somewhere on that women's panel, there's going going to be some sideways insults to menfolk, right? We're going to have a panel on differing abilities. And somewhere on that panel is going to be some version of scratchy sideways insult to you able-bodied people, right? So the same thing about parents, having kids or not, right? Being married or not, we've become affirmative in our ability or desire to make them uncomfortable instead of feel uncomfortable, right? And for For those of us that have touched therapy in one way or another, we know that unhappy people attract unhappy people, right? And if I haven't worked on my stuff, I might attract some people who haven't worked on their stuff. And it is more challenging to sit in your stuff and be uncomfortable and then welcome the person next to you who's a little bit further along in their journey to sit next to you than to I'm going to make you uncomfortable. So therefore, now we're both uncomfortable together.

SPEAKER_01: 49:14

Right.

SPEAKER_00: 49:14

Right. Or so that I feel better. You know, I make you feel uncomfortable, uncomfortable. So therefore, I can feel better and empowered. Right. And engaged. And I'm doing the right thing. And I'm speaking my truth. And and and all these things can be true at the same time. But I believe that from a business perspective, from a friendship perspective, from a family perspective, that being uncomfortable in the midst of other people being uncomfortable in equal measure is of higher value than I'm going to make you uncomfortable so you're uncomfortable with me.

SPEAKER_01: 49:50

Right. Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Right. And I think that's, but that whole uncomfortable part, a lot of that, what was uncomfortable was that there was nothing for me to say. Right. It wasn't for me to say. And that reality of recognizing that situation and learning because the lessons that were learned oftentimes in those situations are not right. Looking at yourself from 20,000 feet is never the same as looking right in the, you know, look in the mirror. It's right there. But when you look around the context around you, it's a little bit different perspective.

SPEAKER_00: 50:32

Excellent. Excellent. Well, I want to thank you for spending a bit of time with us today to share a bunch of different stories, some family, some personal, some business, some business and our business and personal connect, you know, and all the extracurricular activities, whether it's the chickens, the dogs or children miracle network. Thank you for sharing all of that. I think that it makes us richer. It makes us better. And thank you for your transparency. I appreciate that a great deal.

SPEAKER_01: 50:59

Oh, thank you, James. It's, it's wonderful. Really appreciate the time and honored to be invited.

SPEAKER_00: 51:05

Excellent. Excellent. Thank you so much.