Miscarriage, Motherhood, and Military Life: Katherine Dillon’s Journey

In this candid and moving episode, Katherine Dillon shares her powerful journey through miscarriage, pregnancy after loss, and parenting as a military spouse. From navigating postpartum anxiety to receiving an ADHD diagnosis in adulthood, Katherine opens up about the challenges and triumphs that have shaped her motherhood experience. She also reflects on the joy her 2.5-year-old daughter brings and how community has played a vital role in her parenting journey.

You can learn more about Katherine on our website

What You’ll Learn:

• The emotional impact of miscarriage and pregnancy loss
• What pregnancy after loss feels like and how to manage the anxiety
• How Katherine’s ADHD diagnosis changed her approach to motherhood
• The realities of being a military spouse and parenting through frequent moves
• Tips on finding and building a supportive community as a parent
• How Katherine balances parenting with personal goals like studying for the LSAT

About Katherine Dillon:
Katherine is a 31-year-old former Air Force member, military spouse, and mom to a lively 2.5-year-old daughter. She is preparing for a move to Texas with her family while studying for the LSAT to pursue her dream of attending law school. Katherine’s resilience and candor inspire parents everywhere to embrace the highs and lows of their journeys. Read her Motherly piece here.

Quotes from the Episode

"Parenting has taught me to embrace resilience, find joy in the chaos, and rely on the strength of community."
"The hard stuff is really hard, but the joy of parenting makes it all worth it."
"Talk to someone if you’re struggling—therapy saved me and helped me show up for my family."

Resources Mentioned:

Katherine’s article on Motherly: Life Didn't Start the Day I Became a Mom

Chapters

• 0:00 Navigating Pregnancy and Parenting Challenges
• 9:01 Navigating Military Life and Pregnancy
• 16:19 Adapting Careers and Parenting Challenges
• 22:44 Parenting Challenges and Building Community
• 32:19 Parenting Anxiety and Seeking Help
• 36:56 Parenting Advice
• 45:32 Surprising Joys of Parenting

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:37

Today we sit down with Katherine Dillon. Katherine is a former Air Force member, a military spouse and a mom to a vibrant two and a half year old daughter. We hear about Katherine's powerful journey to parenthood and what it's like parenting while navigating life as a military spouse. A small trigger warning here this episode does discuss miscarriage and pregnancy loss. Katherine opens up about the emotional challenges she's faced, from postpartum anxiety to receiving an ADHD diagnosis in adulthood, and how these experiences have shaped her approach to motherhood. She also shares the joy her daughter brings and the critical role community has played in her parenting journey.

Speaker 1: 1:13

Catherine's resilience and honesty provide valuable insights on navigating the highs and lows of parenting, especially when dealing with things like frequent moves and the pressure of personal goals like studying for the LSAT while raising a family, which I cannot even imagine. So, whether you're a parent who has experienced loss, or someone who is balancing a unique lifestyle like the military lifestyle, or maybe you're simply looking for inspiration on how to build a supportive community, this episode has real talk and actionable advice. Hi, katherine, thank you so much for joining us. Hi, thank you for having me. Of course, we're really excited to talk to you, and so you are the parent to one child currently. Is that correct?

Speaker 2: 1:52

One toddler, two and a half and you have one on the way, right? Yeah, I just found out. I am seven and a half weeks and dying of morning sickness currently, but we're going to survive, no, and were you sick with?

Speaker 3: 2:06

your first. Oh yeah, I was so sick, standard, I guess, interesting the whole time. Or first trimester, second trimester, did it go away?

Speaker 2: 2:14

It did go away, but not until like 16 or 17 weeks. So I was like hoping for that magical second trimester and it didn't happen.

Speaker 3: 2:24

But it finally did go away, so it was okay, fingers crossed. It goes way earlier this time.

Speaker 1: 2:30

Yeah, every pregnancy is so different and I think they say that, unfortunately, sometimes the sickness is worse the more pregnancies you have. But I don't know if that's just a wives tale or if that's actually true.

Speaker 3: 2:41

I don't know, mine was horrible and. I've had one yeah.

Speaker 1: 2:47

Yeah, it's interesting, if you don't mind, I know this is TMI for some people, but like, are you just feeling sick or are you actually sick?

Speaker 2: 2:54

So this time, so far, I am just. I have that. It feels like you know when you're hungover and you have that like queasy, yucky feeling. That is currently the feeling that I'm having. I have not actually been sick yet, but yeah, it's just, it's just like a constant like.

Speaker 3: 3:17

Vanilla ice cream got me through. I had HG and I had vanilla ice cream half a pint every day, which my doctor was not thrilled about, but she tried me to get to have just like a spoonful of it, but that that was very helpful for me. Now my son is obsessed with vanilla ice cream now that he's born. I guess you're supposed to eat like vegetables and things when you're pregnant, which? I didn't do so, so they'll eat it later in life. But yeah, vanilla ice cream was my. Nothing else worked Okay.

Speaker 2: 3:42

I will put that on my list of things to try.

Speaker 1: 3:44

It's always worth trying right. So if you don't mind, can we kind of start back at the beginning? We like to kind of understand, kind of where people started in their parenting journey, and so, if you don't mind telling us, you know, what did it look like for you when you started trying to become a parent?

Speaker 2: 4:01

yeah, so my husband and I for a while, were like we're not ready. We're not ready, we're doing our own thing. We were both in the military and so we were, you know, doing all of that and we were busy. And then there was actually we did Christmas with his family and both of his sisters had just had a baby. So there were two like I want to say they were maybe eight months old around Christmas time and they were like you know that perfect, like so cute, so cuddly, and so after Christmas we had been like I think it's time, like we both left Christmas going, it's time. So we started trying and that was in 20, that Christmas was 2019. We started trying in 2020.

Speaker 2: 4:52

And then I got pregnant really quick, and then that ended up being a miscarriage. A miscarriage. So we it was like I ended up having a DNC literally the day they declared the national emergency. So it was like a really wild time. So, and it was also I did not know anybody at that point in time who had had a miscarriage.

Speaker 2: 5:17

That was never something that I had ever thought about, which I think is common, like unless you are close to someone. I think that has had that happen. I don't think it occurs to you that like, oh, it's going to be hard to start a family, you know. So then we kept trying. I ended up having another miscarriage in September of that year, having another miscarriage in September of that year, and then in 2021, I got pregnant again, and that was with my daughter, and so that one was successful. So it was just it was an unexpected. I think we were all expecting it to just be like okay, we decided to have a baby, and now we're going to have a baby, and that's not you know how it happened.

Speaker 1: 6:03

Yeah, yeah, I'm sorry for your loss.

Speaker 3: 6:05

Thank you. Paige has a similar experience too. Right, pregnancy after loss?

Speaker 1: 6:09

Yeah, Two back to back? Yeah, I guess I'm interested, katherine, because I ultimately had two ectopic pregnancies and so I was no longer able to conceive naturally after my losses. But did you have to do fertility treatments or did you just ultimately end up having a successful pregnancy? What was that experience like?

Speaker 2: 6:28

We did end up having a success, Like it was end up having to do any treatments or anything like that. The first miscarriage it was just they called it like a missed. So we went in probably around seven weeks and they were like, well, that heartbeat's like a little bit slow, so just come back. And then when we came back there wasn't a heartbeat, so it just didn't progress. One was it was actually blighted ovum, so yeah, after that we luckily didn't end up having to do anything extra so far.

Speaker 3: 7:04

I just learned a term I had no idea about Blighted Ovum. The blighted ovum. I've never heard of this before. I'm learning things right now.

Speaker 2: 7:12

I didn't know it was a thing either, but yeah, it's so. It was like they showed you. It was like there and it looks like an ultrasound, but then where you normally see like a little blob, where the little baby is, nothing was there. Is that common, do you know? I don't know. Yeah, they didn't tell me.

Speaker 1: 7:52

And at that point I don't think I was Googling did go deep and so I feel like I learned so many terms and then I would like deep dive on that term and so then I have this like warped reality of what is actually, you know, common versus not common, because I maybe over educated myself a little bit to my detriment. But you said something before we hopped on this call via email about your experience of pregnancy after loss, and it was something I totally related to. But if you don't mind kind of explaining to us what was it like for you, you know, especially with your, your daughter, to to have that successful pregnancy. What was that?

Speaker 2: 8:24

So in general, I am kind of an anxious person and so, having had two unviable pregnancies and then having this one, I was on edge, I think the whole time. I, you know, at a certain point I was like, okay, you know, we're, we're in like the safe zone. You know, we had had all the anatomy scans and everything like that, and I still kind of felt like I almost didn't want to believe it until she was here During that pregnancy. I did, I was, I Googled so many things and like, is this normal? Is that normal? Can I eat this, can I eat that? You know? But yeah, it was just this sense of like excitement, but also it could go away and, you know, wanting to get excited and wanting to, you know, do all the stuff and then also trying to like hold myself back a little bit because I had already had it happen where it didn't work out and it was horrible, and so, you know, it was just kind of this weird, like I'm excited and terrified of everything could you talk to anyone at the time?

Speaker 3: 9:43

did you feel like you had anyone? Because I know you live on a military base, but you did mention a lot of people don't talk about this stuff, which is why you know we're talking today. We want we want people to feel like they're not alone, because it can be a really isolating experience. Did you have anyone you could turn to, who had?

Speaker 2: 9:59

gone through it. Yes, so when I was pregnant at the time, my husband was in a special course, so it was like a big deal. He got selected and it's a small group of people and so all of us have to live on base like kind of close to each other. There were, I want to say, five or six other wives who are pregnant at the same time, so we kind of we all got to do that together.

Speaker 2: 10:30

Yeah, it sounds very 1950s, almost like you know, like we're Very village-like, but it was great because, like, we all saw the same doctor and we all, you know, were going through the same thing. A couple of them were a little bit ahead of me and some of them had had losses as well, so for me that was actually really great to have people to talk to. I think there was only one other girl who had had a loss, but just having moms who, a lot of them, had already had kids, so they were on their second or third, and so I could be like, hey guys, I am having a meltdown about this thing. And then they'd be like you're good, it's okay. And then same with my both my sisters-in-law were pretty close and so I could talk to them about pretty much anything pregnancy related, because they knew what they were doing.

Speaker 1: 11:29

Do you mind me asking what that dynamic was like with your partner, because I I personally remember I was similar to you where I was excited but very reluctant to actually believe that my daughter was going to be born like up until the day I gave birth, I was like what if she doesn't make it?

Speaker 1: 11:46

like? Literally till the second she was born, I was, I had that true anxiety about her being able to, you know, make it, make it out. And my husband kept being like babe, it's fine, like she's good, she's good, she's good, like we're good. And I didn't buy baby clothes and I didn't want to set up her nursery and I didn't really want to do all those things. So I was really nervous, right. I was really scared and nervous that if I did those things I wouldn't jinx it, because with my first pregnancy I remember I bought a onesie to like announce that I was pregnant and then I lost that pregnancy right, and so then I was like never again, I won't do that ever again.

Speaker 1: 12:24

But I found that my partner and I don't know if it's because he didn't physically go through the losses right Like it's not his body, he's not carrying this child. There's a different sense of responsibility to make it through right to the end. What was that like for you? Because I think it is different for everyone who's gone through this experience.

Speaker 2: 12:44

Yeah, I think in general. Well, there's like two pieces I guess. One is that he is generally a very reserved person, you know, not a big, like hard on your sleeve kind of guy. So I think there was maybe some anxiety I don't know how much of it would have been around whether or not the pregnancy was going to go through. I think it was just more in general of like, oh my gosh, we're, we're going to be parents, and.

Speaker 2: 13:20

And then the other part was this class that he was in was all-consuming, like I did not see him the majority of that year and so you know he was excited about it but also very I mean just it's basically like a master's program, but like condensed into a year and they're flying constantly and they have like these huge tests. So it was a very weird time where it was like he needed to go do that thing and he was there when he could be, but, like you know, my doctor's appointments were an hour and a half away so he couldn't make it to most of them. So I think generally like there was some anxiety about it, but also just completely overloaded with what he had going on at that point. So I don't know how much he even had to think about that part, you know, because it was like there was so much that he had at work at that point is he a pilot?

Speaker 3: 14:26

he's a. Okay, my father-in-law was in the Air Force and he had. It was very yeah, he was a navigator for the SR in the SR 71. And yeah, we have like SR 71 like pictures and signatures and all these things all over our house.

Speaker 2: 14:40

It's pretty funny.

Speaker 3: 14:41

But from what I hear, I mean it's a very intense when you're in those programs. It's like incredibly intense and you're really not there, so that it's great that you had like five or six other women around you Were their husbands also in the same program.

Speaker 2: 14:57

Yeah, so they're doing the same. They were all together at work, you know, like studying or working on projects, and then we were all back over in housing and like, hey, is your husband home yet? Nope, okay cool.

Speaker 1: 15:13

I would love and this is kind of like veering a little bit, but I'd love to understand your perspective on kind of the idea of a military life and being a military spouse. And you said you were in the military yourself. Is that right? So I think oftentimes, right, people think of the life in the military. You pictured the mom with several children welcoming her husband home right Parenting solo, all of these like.

Speaker 1: 15:40

there's all this, like you know, I think we've seen a lot of it via influencers, right Influencers sharing their experience of being a military spouse, and some of it is glamorized and some of it, I'm sure, is incredibly real.

Speaker 2: 16:12

And some of it is glamorized and some of it I'm sure is incredibly real, but as an outsider it looks incredibly difficult to be in the military and to have a family and to maintain a career and all of these things feel really very, you know, different lifestyle than the average family is living. Yeah, so it is, I don't know it's it's, it's different, it's. You know, I did start out in the military and I actually never. I didn't expect to get out. I thought I would do the full 20 and then retire. But because of this program that my husband got into, there wasn't a great option for me to come here with him. So it was either we split up, like they call it, geo-batching, so I would have to go work at another base until he was done and then they would figure out where to put us after that. So I ended up and I was also, you know, in the middle of having all of these miscarriages. So I was just like you know what, I'll just get out and I'll figure it out. You know, when we get there, I'm sure I can find something really expected to be the civilian wife with the kids.

Speaker 2: 17:16

You know, I thought I was going to be active duty and trying to, you know, do that part. So it was definitely a big mindset shift for me, just going from being the active duty person to being the spouse, and there's kind of this weird thing about spouses where, like, you get kind of shunted to the side sometimes in terms of, like, decision making or you know, when you're dealing with people on base, they'll be like, well, you know where's the member and I'm like he's at work. Obviously it's like you can deal with me, it's fine and yeah. And then you know the maintaining a career has been incredibly challenging, so I left active duty in 2020.

Speaker 2: 18:01

We got here and this space has a lot of engineering jobs, but I am not an engineer, so it was really hard to find something. I did end up finding a position, which, which was great, but that position can't move with us and we're moving in two, three weeks, so I had to leave that one. So now you know, we're trying to figure out the next piece and I think that's pretty common. You know, a lot of my friends are teachers or nurses and that is a little bit easier in terms of, like, no matter where you go, somebody's probably going to need a teacher or nurse. But then you have the licensing piece or you know, transferring your credentials, and then you know that's expensive and it takes a lot of time and sometimes states have different things, and so it does.

Speaker 2: 18:49

I guess I'm only what, four years into being the spouse and I just it is already very tiring to like think of, like okay, so if we move here, then what can I do? And I'm very much a person who likes to work and wants to work, and so, yeah, that piece is just it is really hard.

Speaker 3: 19:11

How has that change in like that mindset been for your relationship? Because I can imagine, you know, as somebody who likes to work myself, you know how yeah, how that would have an impact on you know my marriage. Has that had an impact? And how has parenting been Like? I mean, you've gone through a ton of changes, right, you've? You are moving. You've, you've changed your career, you've given up a lot. How's that been on your relationship.

Speaker 2: 19:35

He's very supportive and you know he's like when we move, he's like okay. So, like, what are we going to do? Where do you want to look? How are we going to make this work? I'm right now I'm studying for the LSAT just to like add a little extra thing on top of everything, and so you know he's like okay, so if we, if you're gonna do that, then we're gonna need, we're definitely gonna need a nanny and we're gonna need, like all you know. So he's like working through that too, I think, honestly, it's been harder for me just having to like kind of accept this like new role that I hadn't imagined for myself and almost had like I don't. It's kind of awful to say, but it just had this like kind of stereotyped picture of what a lot of people think about, what military wives are or military spouses, but you know, just like the, the unemployed and just having babies. Actually, at my doctor's appointment yesterday, the doctor was like, oh so you used to be in, but now you're just having babies, and I was like excuse me.

Speaker 2: 20:42

And she meant it nice she didn't mean it in any type of way, but like stuff like that gets my hackles up so quick, because this isn't like the path that I would have chosen. I'm happy to do it and I'm here and you know, like I love my family, I love my husband and he's doing really cool stuff and like one day it's going to be my turn to do really cool stuff, and that's kind of how we have looked at it is. You know, right now he has this really awesome opportunity and it won't be forever, because you can't serve in the military for forever, and so in the meantime I am doing what I can, but one day it will be my turn. You know, putting people in that oh, just just a mom, or you know whatever drives me insane?

Speaker 3: 21:32

I mean, parenting is the hardest thing.

Speaker 2: 21:33

I've ever done.

Speaker 3: 21:34

So I like saying it's just like pregnancy, birth, you know, raising a human it is the hardest thing I've ever done. I don't understand how it can be just, but I think that a lot of people kind of see it like that. I don't know if you two find parenting like for me it's been a lot harder than I thought, like it's getting easier by the day now that you know my son's almost four. How's it been for you, like in terms of the journey? Has it been kind of what you expected? Has it been harder and there's been so many changes? I'm curious, like for each of you kind of the journey, if it's been what you expected, or easier or harder yeah, I mean, it's hard, it's real hard.

Speaker 2: 22:12

I don't, for us at least. I don't know, like I right now I'm looking back at when she was a baby. I've been like, oh, that was so easy. But I remember also at that point in time, being like this is so hard, I'm gonna die, just in a different way, I guess it's the rose colored glasses, right like when you're through the woods, it all looks great, but when you're in it it's very hard and now you know she's like she's a toddler and like very, very opinionated and we didn't get.

Speaker 2: 22:44

I don't know if this is the same for you guys, but you always see like on Instagram, like, oh, my firstborn. And then they have like this precious, like very calm, whatever. And then and then, oh my gosh, the second born, who's like bouncing off the walls and I'm like, excuse me, that's my firstborn, she's wild. I don't know like how to deal with her. I mean I do, she's very fun, but she's just, she has constant energy, from the second she wakes up to the second she goes to sleep. And yeah, not the like, oh easy, firstborn daughter like so calm and chill that I was told was like everybody's experience.

Speaker 1: 23:29

It's not everyone's experience, Absolutely not. I think we do as a service to other parents when we put kids into those buckets too, for sure, right.

Speaker 1: 23:37

Like to your point. I've seen so many versions of that video on Instagram and TikTok where it's like my first born, my second born, my third, and it's like, yes, some of these things are like tropes, right, and we even see them in like adulthood, right, like I'm the eldest daughter, right, and we even see them in like adulthood right, like I'm the eldest daughter. Like what does that say about me as a person? And some of it's true, right, some of it it does show up, but it's so different. And I have four and my two youngest are biological. My two oldest are adopted and my two youngest were like the easiest babies. Like when I tell you people would remark on how easy they were because they were, they just easy, they were because they were, they just were, they were easy babies. They are such difficult toddlers in the best way possible. They have really strong personalities. They have a lot of conviction, they know what they want.

Speaker 1: 24:27

I'm raising little girls who can speak up for themselves, and it's really hard to parent them because they are not go with the flow kinds of kids. They have opinions and they have feelings and we make space for that in our home too, which not everybody does, but we do, and I have found that nobody really expected that of them. I remember my daughter was screaming the other day and I was on the phone with my sister and she goes oh my gosh, is that so-and-so? And I said, yeah, she goes, she does that. I'm like, yes, all day, every day.

Speaker 1: 24:59

But you remember her as this, like sweet little baby, and now she's two. She's two now and she's a different child and I think that's why we so often say in parenting that everything's a phase. Right, like everything truly is a phase and they're all different and they're all hard and they all have pros and cons, but it is a phase and so, who knows, your second born might be just as wild or could be like totally chill. It's so dependent on that child and I think the environment in which they're being raised right, and kind of what's happening around them at that given time, and so it's just. I do agree with you. I think it's a disservice to other mothers and it makes us question ourselves a little bit.

Speaker 1: 25:48

But I'm interested, though, because you are parenting and what I actually think is more of a community than most of us have. Right, when you are a military spouse, you kind of have this built-in community around you or at least that's what it looks like from the outside that there's this stronger foundation or a real village in that sense, amongst the people on base or wherever you might be. Maybe you don't have connections to your immediate family because they are further away, but you do have this somewhat of a village, and I'm interested in what that experience was like for you as a new parent or just in general, because I think it's something many of us crave but don't have access to.

Speaker 2: 26:22

Yeah, I do feel very lucky that this is kind of where we got to do this for the first time. I would say we. I was talking to one of our one of my friends the other day about this, because after that first year where we were just kind of all kind of together all the time because we really didn't have very much to do, we also during that year it was like you know, you're going to be here for the year but you might move at the end or you might stay there. We weren't sure at the end or you might stay there, we weren't sure. So everybody was just most of us didn't work because it was like, well, if we're gonna move in a year, like what's the point, you know? But then after that, when we most of us found out we were staying, a lot of people started getting jobs and that kind of thing. So this like community that we built was very I would say it's very close-knit, but also in a way where it was like I didn't necessarily see everybody all the time, especially after that first year, but knowing that they were here and that if I had a problem I could call them and be like hey, I know we haven't talked in a minute but I need you to come watch my kid or whatever. It did give me a nice sense of security.

Speaker 2: 27:40

I guess you know, after being pregnant and like we would hang out and do activities together and all that kind of stuff. So we kind of all knew how everybody's pregnancy had gone, how newborn stage had gone, all that kind of stuff, knew how everybody's pregnancy had gone, how newborn stage had gone, all that kind of stuff. But then you know, getting back to work and getting to start doing the things that we wanted to do, they were here and you know now we're kind of losing that because we're moving. And so all of these people who have been kind of the net that even if I don't see them, I know that they can help me. Or you know, I know like everybody lives two minutes from me and willing to do whatever, just like you know I'm willing to do whatever for them. That has been really nice, even when we don't necessarily hang out every single day, or even it's probably been months since the last time I got to hang out with anybody. But they're here and that's like that really is coming here.

Speaker 3: 28:41

Are you moving to another military base?

Speaker 2: 28:43

No, we are moving. Yeah, it's like this really niche unit, so it's still a military assignment, but it's not at a base military assignment but it's not at a base. So, from what I have heard, there are a bunch of wives with kids there as well. So I'm hoping that I'll have a similar network, but it's not the same in that everybody lives all over. They're not like concentrated in one neighborhood, like we are here, not like concentrated in one neighborhood, like we are here.

Speaker 3: 29:16

Yeah, I mean, you created it once. Right, I think about that too, because we didn't have a community, but I've spent a lot of time intentionally building one and I never want to leave here because of it. But I'm guessing, once you do it once, then you kind of are like okay, here's how I can do it again. And it's scary, right, like making friends.

Speaker 3: 29:32

As an adult, you have to be so vulnerable and like you don't have like a built in. I mean you have a little bit of a built in where you know the husbands, I assume, or the partners are, are in the military and on a similar assignment. But you do have to be vulnerable and put yourself out there and get to know new people, which can be exhausting, especially when you're tired from pregnancy and raising a toddler, because those are not easy things, from pregnancy and raising a toddler, because those are not easy things. But I have faith that you're going to be able to do it because you did it once. And you know, I hear everyone in Texas is very nice and welcoming. That's usually true.

Speaker 1: 30:03

And so I guess, to bring it back to you know, parenting specifically, you know you did mention kind of the anxiety that you had during pregnancy and that you were maybe an anxious person in general. How did that change or evolve after you became a mother? And maybe what does that look like today, now that you have a toddler, because I'm sure it ebbs and flows along the way.

Speaker 2: 30:26

So right after having her, I would say the postpartum anxiety was intense. I remember, probably the first day or two that I brought her home, I had been on Reddit and I read a story about during labor. It stalled a little bit towards the end and the baby ended up with cerebral palsy cerebral palsy. And I read that and went oh my God, that is what happened to me and my baby has cerebral palsy. And so I was reading this story because at the very end of my labor the doctor was like, oh hey, we need to do an episiotomy real quick. And I was like, wait what? Like no, which I guess like, like here's a fun thing make sure your doctor knows that you don't want to do that. I thought that was standard, but it wasn't. So then, when I was at home, going, oh my gosh, I said no to that and so now she probably has cerebral palsy and it's my fault because I took too long and I didn't let the doctor do the episiotomy like he said he should. And now look at my floppy baby, which again, if anybody is listening to this and they're like oh my gosh, my baby's floppy. Guess what? All babies are floppy Because that's one of the symptoms that they say to look for. And I was looking at my like two day old baby going oh my gosh, she's so floppy. I obviously did this to her. Luckily, my mom was here and my husband, and so I was sitting on the couch crying about this and they both were like, oh, hang on, no, no, we need to like rein it in. Give me your phone. We're not going to do that right now.

Speaker 2: 32:19

And then for the next like probably three or four months, I was in a pretty intense cycle of like oh my gosh, like do you hear her breathing? I don't know if I hear her breathing or like her breathing is so you know, like sniffly or whatever. And so I would just go through these, like, oh, she is going to die. She, like you know. And then like, oh, no, it's okay. And then, oh my gosh, like something catastrophic is happening, and I think I knew that it wasn't normal, but I couldn't figure out what to do.

Speaker 2: 32:53

And we finally went to a pediatrician who was like she was great, I gave her every single thing that I was like and I'm scared about this, and I'm scared about this, and I'm scared about this, and I'm scared about this. And she went through and was like, okay, well, I don't think she has that because. And then listed all of the reasons why. And she doesn, she has that because.

Speaker 2: 33:15

And then listed all the reasons why and she doesn't have this, and then listed all the reasons and then she got to the end and she was like and I think that if this continues, you need to consider going on medication because, like, this is not standard, and I did end up I'm on anti-anxiety med, which has helped a lot, and so it also really helped, I think, my parenting, because, instead of being so terrified of every single thing, it has helped me be like, okay, that's kids, that's normal, that's normal. And so I'm definitely more in a place of, you know, I'm able to kind of deal with the anxiety much better today, you know. So when she falls down 400 times a day, I'm not like, oh my gosh, we have to go to the hospital immediately, which I think I would have been if I was still at that state.

Speaker 1: 34:13

That's an amazing pediatrician, because I've talked to a handful of mothers who have said exactly what you've said and pediatrician didn't do anything. And so it's amazing that, because they have you fill out that form, right, Are you laughing as much as you always have? Are you happy as much as you've always been? Right, you fill out this form. And I was talking to a woman who was like I said no to everything and the doctor still didn't say anything to me, Like they didn't suggest that I do anything. And so it is.

Speaker 1: 34:40

It's crazy to say, but it is actually very lucky that you had a pediatrician for your child who could also recognize that you might need help and and it kind of steer you in that direction. But had your mother or your husband kind of identified that anxiety or was it something that you guys were all kind of just maybe thinking was normal? Because I think oftentimes we associate anxiety with motherhood in general, right, Like we're always like, oh, moms are so anxious and it's like you shouldn't be. You know there's varying levels and you know you got to figure out what actually is healthy. Yeah, I think I don't know.

Speaker 2: 35:16

I think it was probably more like, at least with my husband, probably like, oh, this is normal, right, like being anxious isn't all you know, and since I am an anxious person, I don't know that, you know it necessarily seemed so much more different.

Speaker 2: 35:35

You know it necessarily seemed so much more different. But you know it was like during the day when he was gone and I was at home like absolutely paralyzed. You know, I don't know that I felt so much better when he was home because I wasn't alone trying to, like, keep her alive. You know like it felt very much like life or death when he was gone. And then when I had that extra person to be like, hey, we got this, I'll take her for a little bit, you know that eased the anxiety so much so I don't even know how much he necessarily was seeing of it. And then, you know, with my mom, she was also a very anxious person, so I think she was like, yeah, this is fine, it's simple. And it wasn't.

Speaker 3: 36:17

The decision fatigue and the mental load too. My husband wasn't gone that much. He was actually here a lot, but anytime he was gone for a weekend or a few days, like that. Just decision fatigue, where it's like just you have to think about everything Should I feed him this or this, should I put them down now? Or especially as when you have anxiety, like everything feels like it needs to be a certain way at least it did for me where it's like if he misses this nap, then my whole day is fucked. Basically pardon my language, but it you know like if I do this wrong, then my night is fucked, my day is in and it's just like you kind of spiral out. I'm curious, because you also mentioned that you had an adult ADHD diagnosis. Did that all happen at the same time?

Speaker 2: 36:58

Yeah, the ADHD diagnosis came when she was closer to one, maybe a little bit over one, and it was after I went back to work and was trying to work and keep the house running and all of that. So obviously, like, if you have ADHD, you've always had it, and I think it was just one of those things where I was really good at coping. You know, I was like one of those people in college who was like, oh, I can multitask, no problem. You know, I can crank out a 20 page paper the night before. Like that's hyper focusing.

Speaker 2: 37:30

That's probably not like the best way to do it, but you know, like it had been manageable before becoming a parent and then after then you have all of these extra responsibilities and things that are so incredibly important, everything here is so incredibly important and it's like there's no, there's. You can't drop the ball on anything. And I couldn't keep up anymore. I couldn't like pay attention, I couldn't keep track of anything and I was finally like, okay, this is not normal, like somebody, somebody needs to help me, because obviously other people are able to work and have kids and something's wrong here because I can't do it no-transcript and you know I don't know, is it the same for you, paige, where you're hearing like a lot of parents are overwhelmed, or a lot of moms in particular?

Speaker 1: 38:58

I think it depends honestly and it also depends on, I think, inherently, like, yeah, who you are right, Like I'm a very atypical person. I'm a type A neurotypical woman who, you know, I did struggle with things like the mental load and domestic labor, but none of it really had to do with the juggling of parents and kids. You know, as people who follow me know, like it was much more to do with the dynamics in my relationship than it was with being a parent. But I have found that the amount of my friends who have struggled with, say, anxiety in particular, has been much more than I maybe thought or knew. And one person in particular was my roommate for years and as we got older she would start to tell me like, oh yeah, my anxiety. And I was like what anxiety? And she's like I've always had anxiety, I'm like I've lived with you forever. What are you talking about?

Speaker 1: 39:47

And I couldn't recognize that right, because it is this silent thing that oftentimes we're not verbalizing to each other, we're not saying out loud, like our deepest, darkest fears of what keeps us up at night. Right, those things, those questions, and so I think that's the hard part, right Is when we are struggling or we're in it. We're not always in the place to verbalize it, right, and even if we are struggling, we tend to joke it off right, like oh, another day another sick kid or another this, and we make light of it because I think many of us don't know what else to do, right, what is the solution here? How else, you know, laugh so you don't cry, kind of thing. And so I think it's hard sometimes, right, because as parents, we have these masks we put on for the real world. And I say real world but, like you know, when I hop on a Zoom call Monday and people say how was your weekend, I'm like it was good, yeah, it was good, it was good, it was busy, and that's what I say. Right, I don't say like, actually, like I, by Sunday night I wanted to die, like it was such a long weekend, I'm so tired, I had sick kids, right. I don't say those things because nobody wants to hear about it really.

Speaker 1: 41:02

And so I think that's the hard thing, because even in our day-to-day lives, right with other parents, there's that like jokes, and we see them again on the internet, where it's like mom's at the playground, where we're trying to have a conversation, but you're just chasing a toddler. So it's like when do I have time to tell my friends that I'm struggling? When do I have time to say to anybody that I'm struggling, like so often we just don't even have the space to acknowledge it's happening to us, which makes that so difficult, because we can't even say, hey, please, somebody, I need some help over here because we don't have time. And so I think that's part of it too, which is like, yes, I know people who are overwhelmed, but I'm only recognizing that now that I can see it right. Like that I can see it and say like, oh, like, are you okay, do you need some help? Like, what can we do? Having those conversations right Through a different lens, I think, is the only reason I've been able to see that now, because I think if I was just going about my day-to-day life, I would still just be, you know, alongside the other moms laughing it off, and I don't think that's healthy either.

Speaker 1: 42:02

I wish we all had better coping mechanisms for this. Yeah, it's a huge transition to become a parent, and it is, I mean, yeah, it's overwhelming. I think that's the best word for it.

Speaker 3: 42:12

Katherine, what do you kind of wish that you could tell yourself before you had kids? Or you know your best friend who doesn't have kids yet. What is something that you're like? I wish somebody would have told me this. Or you know some advice that you would love to pass along to other folks.

Speaker 2: 42:25

Yeah, I think I don't know there's so many. I just wish I could like download myself, you know, into other people's feel like this is how it worked for me, but I guess that would be. The main thing is like everybody's experience is so different and you just kind of gotta learn how to go with the flow, which is so hard. That's like the worst advice. You know it was like oh thanks, go with the flow. Like never thought of that.

Speaker 2: 42:50

But I think in parenting, just figuring out what she needs and then making that work, you know she is, she does not like to wear anything that isn't, you know, like the, the bamboo pajamas. It's such a mistake to have bought those because now she's obsessed with them and every morning we have to fight about taking pajamas off and putting something else on. So you know, we have to do a lot of playful games and silly activities to like get her to a point where she's good with that. And you know, I think, going into parenting, like a couple of years ago I would be like I would never do that, like I'm just going to tell my child to get dressed and then they're going to get dressed, and so, you know, learning how to like kind of let go of the things that don't actually matter, while you know, holding the right boundaries has been hard.

Speaker 2: 43:45

But I think once that like kind of clicked in my head it was like, okay, we don't have to fight about everything you know. And then everybody's experience is so different and I think you know yourself best and so like, if you are realizing that you're having a lot of problems, talk to somebody, go to therapy, find somebody, because that saved me. You know, I had been going to therapy kind of off and on, especially after the miscarriages, but once I had her I was like I need to find someone and that has been so helpful for me to work through my anxieties and figure out how to cope and how to build up the supports around me that I need to kind of show up the way I need to show up.

Speaker 1: 44:41

Go with the flow is such a common piece of advice, but I think people here stop caring. No, that's not what it is Right I think Catherine nailed it which is it's be flexible, pick your battles and go with the flow. Like you decide where this day is going to take you, and today you might have the tolerance for something that you don't tomorrow, right, and so like your flow is different every day, so like going with the flow. Is this like blanket piece of advice that is often given, but I think we've lost the meaning of it a little bit and I think you got it, catherine which is it's not about not caring, it's just choosing what to care about and what's important to you and what will help you as a parent kind of parent, your child, and that was really interesting.

Speaker 1: 45:27

Thank you for saying it that way because I think, yes, I couldn't agree more.

Speaker 3: 45:32

And then we've talked about a lot of really hard things today, because parenting, like we've all mentioned, is pretty tough.

Speaker 2: 46:09

What's been something surprising for you, catherine, as we wrap up, that you didn't expect and something that's brought you a lot of. That would happen, but I don't know that I really could picture myself with like a little tiny person. She is so joyful and so fun that it's just been. You know the hard stuff is really hard and then she does like this you know the perfectly cute and sweet we have a dog and she loves, loves our dog, and so I'll come out and she'll be like oh Izzy, it's okay, I take care of you. You know, just kind of it's so hard to put into words because it's just like pure light and fun that you know it doesn't make the hard stuff less hard, but you know that that fun, wonderful piece is coming, even during the fights and the tantrums, and it's so much more worth it. I guess that's great. That's great to hear.

Speaker 1: 47:01

Thank you so much for your time and for your story. Thank you so much for having me.