The Truth About | My Traumatic Birth Story and Going From Wanting None to One — Part I of Co-Host Sam Strom's Story

After 40 episodes, your co-host Sam Strom is sharing her birth story. 

Sam flips the roles and sharing the deeply personal story of how she became a mom—despite being sure she never would. Growing up with financial instability and watching the emotional toll motherhood took on her own mom, Sam was convinced kids weren’t for her. But life had other plans. In this conversation with Zara, she opens up about what changed, the reality of a traumatic pregnancy with hyperemesis gravidarum (HG), and a birth experience that ended with two (nearly three) blood tranfusions and her surgeon saying “she’d never experienced anything like it in her 35 years.”

We talk about everything—from my complicated feelings around motherhood and how a therapist’s words unexpectedly nudged her into parenthood (spoiler alert, her words were less than honest), to the brutal reality of hyperemesis gravidarum (HG) and a traumatic birth during the pandemic. She talks about the guilt, the pressure to “bounce back,” and how lit took months to truly bond with her son.

If you’ve ever questioned motherhood, felt unseen in your journey, or realized your experience didn’t match the picture-perfect version the world sells us—this episode is for you.

⭐️ If something here spoke to you, follow, rate, review, or share it with someone who might need to hear an honest story about motherhood. It will help both them and us get our podcast to folks who it can help. 

We’re just getting started.
🔗 Resources & Mentions:
Tone It Up fitness during pregnancy
Ina May’s Guide to Childbirth (not an endorsement—listen for why)
Taking Cara Babies sleep program

Pregnancy with hyperemesis gravidarum, traumatic birth, and postpartum recovery

birth story podcast, traumatic birth story, hyperemesis gravidarum, postpartum recovery, first-time mom story, pregnancy complications, birth trauma, motherhood podcast, honest motherhood stories, C-section experience, postpartum anxiety

I didn’t want kids, unplanned motherhood journey, giving birth during the pandemic, bonding with baby, postpartum guilt, postpartum identity crisis, maternal mental health, pregnancy after 35, pandemic birth story, severe morning sickness, emergency C-section, blood transfusion birth story

Chapters

• 0:00 Sam's Journey to Motherhood
• 7:13 From Not Wanting Kids to Pregnancy
• 17:26 Hyperemesis and Pregnancy Complications
• 32:41 Traumatic Birth Experience
• 41:41 The Myth of Instant Maternal Bonding
• 47:41 Postpartum Struggles and Marriage Challenges

Transcript

Speaker 1: 0:28

Hey everybody, I'm Sam Strom, your co-host, and after 40 episodes, I am finally sharing a bit about my story. It's how I came to be a mom, despite not being sure, actually being pretty confident I never would. In this conversation with Zara, I opened up about what changed the reality of traumatic pregnancy with hyperemesis gravidarum or HG, and a birth experience that ended with two nearly three blood transfusions. I hope you enjoy the episode.

Speaker 2: 0:55

Hi everyone. Today we have a really exciting episode. We're going to talk to the woman who started all this. So we have Sam here and we're going to hear a little bit more about her parenting experience and what led her to start this podcast in the first place. I think you guys will relate to a lot of it, and I'm going to learn a lot of it too, because we've talked about these topics a little bit, but we haven't really gotten into it. So I'm really excited to hear more.

Speaker 1: 1:20

Awesome yeah.

Speaker 2: 1:21

So I know you and I have talked a little bit about this and you've said that you weren't sure if you wanted kids or you didn't want kids. Can you walk us through back to that point and then sort of tell us how that changed and what led you to have your son?

Speaker 1: 1:34

Yeah, so I never wanted kids. I grew up in a pretty dysfunctional kind of childhood, like parts of it were really wonderful I've spoken about it before like living on a commune and living with my mom's friends. Most people, I think, grow up just thinking that they're going to have kids and then I was like nope, I'm going to be career oriented, I do not want kids, and that's how I went through my life, and my family would be like you'll change your mind when you meet the right person. We got married when I was 36 and my husband always wanted kids, so for me that's kind of it was I don't want to say a deal breaker. We actually went to couples therapy for it.

Speaker 2: 2:10

Did you guys talk about it a lot before you got married, or was it something that? Because I think in our generation right, a lot of people just kind of think the default is wanting kids, and I think there are couples who don't really have that conversation. And then they get married and they realize, oh wait, we're on different pages here.

Speaker 1: 2:29

Yeah, we did have that conversation, but he never believed me that I didn't want him. He was like, no, you'll want them. And when we went to therapy over it. So we got married, we went to therapy and the therapist actually and this is kind of part of why I think I went into motherhood it's not her fault, right it just planted something in my brain that I took very literal, because I take words literally. And she said why don't you want kids? And I said I really like our life, I love what we do.

Speaker 1: 2:55

I was working a lot, so I would work till like midnight and get up and do it all over the next day, and I loved it. She said, well, your life isn't going to change, they're just going to come along with you. And I was also scared yeah, and I was also really. And she has two. She had two young children at the time too, which was interesting. And I was also scared. I was never going to love anything as much as I love my cat, and so those are my two things. And when she was like, well, your life isn't going to change, I was like, oh, okay, well, if my life isn't going to change, then why wouldn't we do?

Speaker 2: 3:23

it. And then I think we've talked about this, but you said that getting pregnant was not hard for you, right? No-transcript? That it's. It is crazy because, like we've talked about, I'm 37 now and I started trying for my first at 28.

Speaker 2: 4:09

And I had fertility challenges then and nobody around me did right, because when you're in your 20s, people are either actively avoiding pregnancy or they've been on the first try. But my husband and I tried for our third earlier, a few months ago, and we kind of just decided to abandon it. We were like, if it happens within three or four cycles, great, if not, we're just going to move on. And we ended up just moving on because it didn't happen. But I was thinking about that If I had gotten pregnant quickly at 37, how that would have kind of been the outlier experience right.

Speaker 2: 4:44

And I'm sure you felt some of that too, yeah.

Speaker 1: 4:47

When you see so many people going through it definitely stifled the joy of it. I felt so guilty because everyone around me couldn't get pregnant and here I didn't want kids, or I didn't really. I should say I didn't really want kids because once the therapist said that I was like, okay, well, if they're just going to be part of my life, then I do want that. I would like to have like a little friend and yeah, so it was definitely shocking, but there are a lot more people than you would realize that do have that experience. A lot of people don't talk about it because it's almost shameful.

Speaker 2: 5:15

Yeah, I mean even Lauren Bostic, some of her comments about I think we talked about that how she was like I just really manifested my pregnancies every time and I got pregnant on the first try with all three of them. I feel like we kind of come at people who say I got pregnant right away and we shouldn't, but at the same time I think maybe it's not because you manifested it, maybe it was just how the cards fell.

Speaker 1: 5:40

Yeah and well and it's, and then it puts like the onus on the woman Right.

Speaker 2: 5:50

And if you can't get pregnant?

Speaker 1: 5:51

you didn't manifest hard enough, or you didn't try hard enough, you didn't relax enough, which I know is a thing where you didn't eat enough, because there are people who are too thin or too heavy and there are like scientific parts of that.

Speaker 2: 6:01

but yeah, it's also like not there's like two people involved in creating a baby yeah, I mean that's another thing we've talked about, because my husband's in his 40s and when we were trying for a, I'm like I just don't think we know everything there is to know about the effect of advanced paternal age. Let's put that term out there. Yeah Right, I think that we're going to learn more and more about how that can affect things. Moving on to your actual pregnancy you said that it was a rough one.

Speaker 1: 6:29

Yeah, so I got symptoms within weeks. I started getting. So this is a weird one. Did you have this? Where did you start getting a lot of saliva in your mouth? Yes, oh my gosh, I was like what is happening. And it was just a couple of weeks in and I was like what? What is this under your tongue?

Speaker 2: 6:45

Yeah, and I randomly got that for a few months, like I don't know, maybe a year ago, and I was like this is really strange, what's going on here? But yeah, I would get that. Was it like a ghost pregnancy, do you think? Or something like that? I don't think so I think with me, like I, I think it was sort of tied to nausea, because it would really come on more when I would brush my teeth and then I would gag every time I brushed my teeth. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know.

Speaker 2: 7:13

It was strange.

Speaker 1: 7:15

Yeah, it's gross. I hadn't heard anyone. So I started Googling because this is before ChatGPT, it was what? 2019? And I was so irritable, like I remember just being like, just angry and being like anything he did or said, I didn't want him to breathe near me and I was like this is not normal. I'm a moody person, but not like this was extreme. And so my friend, who had been trying for ages, sent me some of those. They're kind of like keto strips you might be familiar with them, but there's not like the plastic and stuff and she's like let me just send you some of them because I don't, I don't really need them, because she hadn't had anything. But you basically pee on this little stick of paper it's just like paper, almost like the inside of the pregnancy test, and it like popped up immediately that I was pregnant and my husband was sleeping and I woke him up and I was like I'm pregnant and he's like no way, no way, cause it. I was so early and also it happened so fast.

Speaker 2: 8:10

Did you guys ever have a conversation about trying for a little while and, if it didn't happen, abandoning it? Or were you kind of in that mode of we will do whatever we have to do to have this baby we?

Speaker 1: 8:20

were just like let's try, and if it works, it works, and if it doesn't, it doesn't. And I think he was okay with that too, like he wanted kids, but I don't think he would want me to feel like I had to put my body through that unless I really wanted to. But I, since I, was the person who was like I don't want kids, that was that. And then because I so this is something, and I don't know if anyone listening has had this experience, but did you get symptoms really early?

Speaker 2: 8:46

Sarah, I found out really early. I was like three and a half weeks when I found out and I think my symptoms probably started like four and a half weeks somewhere in there.

Speaker 1: 8:57

Okay, like nausea and stuff, okay. So my symptoms also started really early and it was a lot of nausea and vomiting. For anyone who doesn't want to hear anything, we're going to be talking about hyperemesis in this episode, and I couldn't even keep water down, and for anyone who doesn't know what that term is, it's commonly referred to as HG. I could not eat, I could not smell food, I could not Like. I was so nauseous and so I was going to work in the city. I'm in the Bay Area, so I was in Oakland at the time. So I the bus into San Francisco or BART into San Francisco. Luckily I didn't have to go in that often, but it was just so sick and throwing up multiple times a day.

Speaker 1: 9:37

A lot of people who have that condition lose weight during pregnancy and it's really dangerous. That's not one of those people. My doctor I remember it was like very early she's like you've already gained five pounds, like you need to be careful, and I was like no, I am eating whatever I could and I didn't realize. So the other thing too I didn't realize this is something you could take FMLA for or take leave for, and I was with a large company so I could have. But I was just like I have to power through. And I remember my desk mate. She says to this day that like I traumatized her about pregnancy because I would go into the office and I would throw up, I'd have to lay on the ground and I just couldn't function. It was awful.

Speaker 2: 10:19

The things women push through. It's just it's absolutely wild, yeah.

Speaker 1: 10:24

And then finally, I went to my doctor and I was like what can I do? Because I couldn't keep water down and if you've ever been dehydrated, it makes you more nauseous, and so I think that's why you get I don't know, I don't know the science about anything. So I went to my doctor and I was like I don't know what to do Cause like I was throwing up so much blood vessels were popping in my eyes, Like it was just awful, and but I was eating a lot because I was like, okay, the only thing that is to make me be okay is if I eat carbs. So carbs, and I ate half a pint of Haagen-Dazs vanilla ice cream almost every single day of my entire pregnancy. I'm not exaggerating, it was every single day because it was what I could keep down.

Speaker 1: 11:02

So I asked the doctor and I was like what can I do? It wasn't my doctor that I have now my OB I really like, but it was a different doctor because I got in for like an emergency thing and she was like well, you could go to the hospital and get fluids. I was like there's no, there's no other way that, like, I can get fluids. And she's like well, I mean, you could go to the what is it called? It's basically like an IV clinic and she's like well, you could do that, I could sign up a prescription.

Speaker 1: 11:29

So I started going to the IV clinic in the hospital, which is where people get like their cancer treatment and they sit there and get their chemo treatment. So I'm sitting there doing my work on my laptop, hooked up to machines, while people are hooked up to chemo. It was very surreal. It made me feel very like lucky. That that was all I was dealing with. But I remember the first time I went in, they gave me a prescription for two bags, which I think is two liters each, of saline, which is basically you're just replenishing your body, and the nurse was so kind. She was like I'm going to slip you a third because you just went through those so quickly. She's like I'm just going to I have to give you this one, even though it's not on your prescription, which I was very grateful for that and that definitely helped.

Speaker 1: 12:16

But I was going there three times a week to get fluids because I could not keep water down. How were you managing work with all that? I don't know. I just I didn't think I had a choice and so and I was running an entire function and I was the only person hired for that, and when I went on maternity leave, they hired six people to replace what I was doing. So I don't know, I think it was just like, I think hustle culture was really deeply ingrained into me and I just pushed through. If I could do it again, if I would have known I could have taken time off, I would have Was this pre-pandemic, pre-pandemic, and then the pandemic hit, and that's when I stopped going to the IV clinic because I didn't want to put anyone who was immunocompromised at risk, even though we weren't going out or doing anything.

Speaker 1: 12:58

I just didn't feel right about it. And since I didn't have to travel into work, my symptoms also lessened because I didn't have to get into a moving vehicle and I could just stay in my house, and so that was really helpful and the one thing so if anyone has this condition, the one thing that made my days bearable I had to get up every single morning and work out before I did anything. Otherwise my afternoons would be really hard and I don't know why. But so I would do tone it up in the morning and then I'd do walking in the afternoon without a treadmill, because it was truly the only thing that kept me, and I don't know I should ask somebody what the science behind that is. But yeah, that was that, and vanilla ice cream, those were my saviors.

Speaker 2: 13:38

Kate Middleton had HG. I can't imagine how she navigated the public eye and did all of the things she has to do with that Three times too right, and she got to the.

Speaker 1: 13:49

She was on the other side, so I gained a lot of weight. I gained 55 pounds, which is a lot of weight, especially I'm 5'3, so that's a lot of weight. But she lost a lot of weight and had to be hospitalized. Right, yeah, we were talking about it and I would not do it again. I think we were talking last weekend and I was like I think for a billion dollars I would do it again, but I don't think anything less.

Speaker 2: 14:08

I would be like it was awful yeah, and, and it lasted the entire duration of your pregnancy. Yeah, I was throwing up through labor.

Speaker 1: 14:17

It was awful. It was not fun. I don't recommend it, but my mom did have it, so that's the other thing. She also threw up through labor, so it is, I guess, genetic.

Speaker 2: 14:28

Yeah, and I think that you have a really high likelihood of having it in subsequent pregnancies, right?

Speaker 1: 14:33

I don't know. I was just like I'm never doing this again.

Speaker 2: 14:36

I think so. I know Ashley Iaconetti, who was from the Bachelor, had it. Yeah, oh, she did, and I think with her second she said she was sick but it wasn't nearly as bad.

Speaker 1: 14:46

Yeah, they said that there's no guarantee. I remember them telling me because I had to sign paperwork, because they make you sign paperwork if you want your tubes out. So if I had to have an emergency C-section, I wanted to sign papers to just be like, while you're in there, tie my tubes or whatever you have to do. And when I was signing it they're like you might not have it on your next pregnancy. Every pregnancy is different, but for me there was no way I was going to take that risk. I knew that was it?

Speaker 2: 15:12

And then, what was your delivery like?

Speaker 1: 15:15

So it was during the pandemic. This is also really silly. So I have a milk protein allergy, like a mild one, so eating ice cream every day was not great for me. I would just take a. No, I didn't take Zyrtec because of pregnancy. I was taking a Unisom to sleep because they give you Unisom. Zofran didn't work for me, but Unisom would just knock me out and it's also like an allergy. So my due date was summer pandemic and it came and went no baby. And so they scheduled me for an induction on my due date. But because of the pandemic, every time I got like they would get full and they would have to call me and be like oh, there's too many people, we have to push you, we have to push you, we have to push you.

Speaker 1: 16:00

The odd thing that happened is, I think, like the day after my induction date I got a bloody nose, and bloody nose is pretty normal for pregnant women. I've never had them. Did you have any? But I guess there are a lot of women because of the hormones they get bloody noses. So I called in and they were like this is normal, it's fine. But I was like this is not normal, this is really gory. I want to show you a picture of it. But then it didn't go away for days and I started coughing up blood. Clots like that were the size of my palm, and I was like I don't think this is normal. And so I went into the ER and they were like, oh we, maybe there's something that is like a suture that you need to have done. So I went in there and it just like. It was just like couldn't stop bleeding. And so they're like let's just get you in to your induction. Since you're already here, let's just get you set up.

Speaker 1: 16:55

And the induction also was really painful. So did you have to? You weren't induced because you had your C-section planned, right, yeah, so there's a thing called the Foley bulb, which I didn't know that they like put in you Again. This is all like a very graphic episode, and and it was Do you want the truth? Yeah, yeah. So for anyone listening, it's very painful, and my friend warned me that it was painful, but I didn't know it was that painful.

Speaker 1: 17:22

And then they send you home with like no medicine and I was just in so much pain, and so we ended up going back just a few hours later because, also, like, my nose is bleeding and so we go back. They admit me and I am with Kaiser. I know people have their thoughts about Kaiser. I really like them, and what was cool about this is they were able to get me an ENT specialist while I was in the delivery room, so they were able to come in and see what was happening. And what happened is because I had an allergy to milk and was having so much milk I had a growth in my nose like an allergy, like polyp, and it had burst, so they couldn't do anything. They tried to like put silver nitrate on it, but they couldn't do anything. So during my delivery I had a bloody nose. I'm throwing up. It was just like literally the worst experience ever.

Speaker 1: 18:07

And then after 36 hours, my doctor the midwife came in and was like your guys' heart rates are going too high and too low. We need to do an emergency section right now. And again, for anyone who wants to have their tubes tied or they take them out now, you have to, at least at my hospital, remember to give them the papers. So we called my mother-in-law and we're like, hey, this is what's happening. And she was like make sure to give them the paperwork. So we did, because otherwise we never would have. But I remember telling the doctor I said I'm going to bleed out. Do you have? Like I just have a feeling I'm going to bleed out? Do you have my, my blood type in the room and she said yeah, you're not going to bleed out, you're going to be fine. So like I called my best friend and I was like no, like I am going to bleed out, you better take care of, like whatever.

Speaker 1: 18:57

I was really, really scared and so we went in, got the surgery and I did bleed out. I hemorrhaged, I had to get two blood transfusions and they there was like no celebration. My husband and I talked about this afterwards that he it was so silent in the room I don't even think my son made a sound. It was just silent in the room and people were working. We didn't know his sex until he came out and so they took him out and they said it's a boy and they just went right back to work and during it, like before he came out, blood actually splashed over the curtain onto my husband and he was like what the fuck is going on, you guys?

Speaker 1: 19:32

And they were like then all of a sudden it turned into like an emergency and then my son got out all of that stuff. I couldn't even look at them because I was throwing up and I just remember saying to myself you have to stay awake, you have to stay awake, you have to stay awake, because that is really dangerous if you fall asleep, if you pass out. And luckily I had the epidural before so they could just get me into the OR. And then they took out my tubes and then it was, I want to say, a pretty long, like it was much longer than I thought it would be, and then they rolled me out and I actually didn't hold my son for like four or five I think it was five hours, because I was so scared I was going to drop him. Did you have any of that after a C-section, or did you hold them right away? I was going to drop him. Did you have any of that after a C-section, or?

Speaker 2: 20:14

did you hold them right away? I was scared too. I did hold them, but I was, I think, okay holding them if I was in bed, but I was really scared to hold them standing up because when we talked about in our episode with Ellie, which will probably air after this one, but my hemoglobin was really really low and I just felt incredibly unsteady on my feet. So, yeah, standing up and holding them was really really low and I just felt incredibly unsteady on my feet. So, yeah, standing up and holding them was really, really scary for me.

Speaker 1: 20:36

Yeah, and yeah, for me it was just in the bed, but it is. I think that is also something where you want to have that. But I was just so scared and I think there's also a party that's in shock I was shaking, I was, and when you lose a lot of blood something I didn't know is you get really weak. And so they had me in the recovery room but they wouldn't let me have any like water or anything, because they thought I was going to have to go back in for another surgery because something was going on with like my platelets or maybe my hemoglobin I don't remember because obviously I was. It was a weird time, but finally I started like coming to a little bit more and this nurse walked in and she's like you haven't held him yet and I was like, oh, maybe I should, and I'm really grateful that she kind of looked at me and was like huh, and I was able to hold him and I was like, oh, this isn't that scary, and I think it was a couple hours later. The doctor finally was like okay, she doesn't have to go back in for another surgery or another blood transfusion, because they were going to have to do that.

Speaker 1: 21:28

It's like you can have, you know, something to drink? Did they give you like it's the most delicious thing I've ever had in my life? It was like this drink with ice and they call it mommy juice. Did you have that? I'm sure it's just like Pedialyte. No, oh my gosh, it was literally the most delicious thing I've like to this day. Yeah, I, and my husband thinks it was just Pedialyte, but I just kept asking for more of it because I was like this is so delicious. And then it was funny too, because then the the surgeon once I like stabilized the surgeon came out and talked to my husband and it was like she's right, and she should never have another child and it's really good. She got her tubes out, because the surgeon was trying to talk me out of getting my tubes out before I went in and was like you really shouldn't, like you're too young. And then she was like in 35 years I have never had an experience like that. So that was, that was my birth.

Speaker 2: 22:17

That's. It's traumatic, and I don't know if you felt this, but my birth was not nearly as traumatic as yours and I still felt like I had been cheated of this experience that everyone had always told me was going to be like the most beautiful thing I'd ever do and that the minute I met my kids it would be like instant bliss. And the day I had my first baby would be like the best day of my life. And I remember that day being like am I just is there something wrong with me that I'm not feeling this? And then I think in hindsight I'm able to kind of parse through it and say like no, I just had kind of a crazy surgery.

Speaker 2: 22:59

Yeah, but did you feel any of that?

Speaker 1: 23:02

Yeah, I felt all of that. So and my husband was like pretty messed up from it because he was like what just happened? And we're the first ones of our friends really to go through birth and we're like what the fuck? Why didn't nobody tell us Like this is like really dangerous. And yeah, I did have all of those things you talked about. I had the. I didn't have the connection right away. I I remember my husband looking at our son and saying I love him so much and me going. But we just met him Like what do you mean? And I know that sounds so callous and I don't think that's a story that I'll ever tell my son, but I just didn't. Yeah, I definitely didn't have that initial connection.

Speaker 2: 23:42

Yeah, and I think that there needs to be more research done on this, and I also think it's one of those things that you can't fully research, but just the bonding with a C-section via a vaginal delivery, I really do think there is something to that. I know that it's not. There's no very like hard undeniable evidence to support it, but, like I said, I don't really know if you can fully explore that with research. I think it kind of comes down to maternal experience at some point.

Speaker 1: 24:11

Yeah, and I think it's got to be right, because as you give birth through like vaginally delivering, you have oxytocin that releases and you don't when you have C-section, because they also I don't know if they told you this, but they were like, oh, your milk probably will take a few days to come in because you had a C-section because of the oxytocin. So there's like, definitely it's got. I mean, there's got to be something to it. I was lucky that I had a really close girlfriend call me like we were close in our twenties and then she had kids, so we didn't really talk much before until I had my son. She called me and she said if you don't feel connected to him, it's totally normal.

Speaker 2: 24:59

I didn't for months. I think she said like four, it was either four to eight months. It took her and she had two kids via C-section and my husband and I, like you know, we had talked before the kids were born about me staying home and I remember early on I looked at him and I was like I can't be the one to take care of them, like you need to stay home. And he's like you quit your job already. There's no recourse here.

Speaker 1: 25:24

You're like I can ask for them again. Yeah, it is one of those things that was truly the best thing she could have done, because she's like I just want to tell you this in case. And I was like, oh my God, thank you. I felt very protective over him but I didn't feel that instant bond Like so when we got home.

Speaker 1: 25:42

So we stayed a little bit extra, which they also don't tell you you can do. But we had friends say if you have to get a C-section, see if you can stay at the hospital longer, because A it was COVID and B we don't have a lot of family that can physically help us. And so we stayed extra. And when we got home we immediately ended up back at the NICU because we had a SNU and we put him in the SNU. We didn't know how to use it, so we put him in there naked or like in just a diaper, and we thought he turned blue and was cold and so immediately we took him back and I was so angry at my husband. I was like why didn't you dress him appropriately? And I remember I didn't feel that loving connection, but I felt very protective over him, like did you have that with them, or yeah, and I think that it.

Speaker 2: 26:24

I think that that is love. But you're just so like hormonally just charged that everything feels different, and even love feels different than it did before. You know what I mean. Like everything felt different. Anger felt different, yeah, badness felt different, like I just I just felt like I was in someone else's body.

Speaker 1: 26:45

Yeah, yeah. And then also like, oh, yeah, I totally feel that, and kind of like an out of body experience at the same time, where you're like watching it and yeah, luckily it ended up just being that we hadn't known him that long and he had a blue mark on his face from like I don't know just the way his skin was at the time. His skin was at the time. But it was interesting when we went back and they put him in the NICU for the night and everything, because they got a bad reading that said he was hypothermic and they like wanted to do a spinal tap and luckily, like my husband was in his right mind to be like no, we're not doing that because it was just a bad reading.

Speaker 1: 27:20

But I remember the nurse came in and was like, oh, you just gave birth to him. We heard there was a really crazy birth, was that you? And I remember just being like, oh my gosh, like I'm now known in Kaiser and just being like mortified because I was like, yeah, it was just yeah. But I also you had preeclampsia or like posteclampsia what is it? Postpartum preeclampsia I had that too. Did they give you anything? Cause they I made them give me like a diuretic before I left, because I was like my feet are like this big.

Speaker 2: 27:51

I had a magnesium drip, so I had it right after I delivered and I was on bed rest for 24 hours and then I came off of it and then maybe this is something to talk about in a future episode, but I guess I'll briefly explain what happened. We were I think it was like day three, and we were in our room thinking we were going to go home the next day and the nurse came in and there was one nurse checking me and one nurse checking my daughter and my blood pressure like skyrocketed and she desatted at the exact same time. What, yeah?

Speaker 1: 28:24

So what did they do?

Speaker 2: 28:25

So they took her right away, or not right away. They I think they waited a little bit before they took her to the NICU. But they put me back on the mag drip and then when they took her to the NICU I couldn't go because I was on bedrest and so she was just like down there and I think my husband went with her but I was like, can someone just take me to see my kid Like? And then finally a nurse got permission to put me in a wheelchair and take me down.

Speaker 1: 28:51

So why did they put you?

Speaker 2: 28:52

on bed rest. I guess the drip makes you so unsteady and so dizzy and, just like I don't know, you just feel awful on it.

Speaker 1: 29:01

Yeah, I don't know what they had me on. They had me hooked up to a bunch of stuff, but they made me get up and walk because of the C-section, so I was forced to get up and walk. Because of the C-section, so I was forced to get up and walk around. So they must not have had me on magnesium at the time if that makes I don't know. And they also. I kept throwing up the pain medication and so they just kept my epidural in and they kept giving me. So if anyone has this condition or has HG, you probably also get nauseous really easily. Like I get super cursic, I like nausea. So they kept just upping my epidural for my pain afterwards because I couldn't keep down the pain medicine. So if anyone has a weak stomach like that, that is an option for you that I didn't know about. I like begged them for it.

Speaker 2: 29:48

Yeah, it's just like and there's so much you just have to figure out on your own right. This doesn't work for me. This makes me feel worse, yeah.

Speaker 1: 29:57

And you can't like be throwing up when you have a C-section like that. I think I was shocked by two I don't know if you were but I remember getting home and being like wait, this is crazy. Like you have I mean, the scar is not big, but like you're just, you're just opened up. And I won't say who said it to me. But they were like why are you complaining? It's just a C-section, it's not like a big thing. And I remember being so upset and it actually hurt my relationship with that person for I've never talked to them about it but I was like, wait, this is so dismissive, like what are you talking about? Just because so many people do it doesn't mean that it's not a major surgery where they literally take your insides out and then they have to put you back together.

Speaker 2: 30:34

And in what other world do you have a major surgery and then not only are you not told go and rest and take care of yourself and heal, you're also told actually no, you're not going to do that. You're going to take care of someone else You've never taken care of before. You're going to have to learn all of this while you're trying to heal. But don't worry about your healing, because that's not a big deal.

Speaker 1: 30:54

It's not a big deal, not a big deal at all. And then did they eat some celery. Yeah, did they give you any pain meds when you went home for your they?

Speaker 2: 31:04

did? I didn't take them, I don't know. I think I was like trying to be.

Speaker 1: 31:11

But what did they give you? Because they only gave me. It was like 500 milligrams of ibuprofen, I think. Yeah, they gave me.

Speaker 2: 31:15

They gave me a narcotic I forget which one, but they gave me something.

Speaker 1: 31:19

And then they gave me, I think, ibuprofen as well, I wonder if they didn't give me the narcotic because I was getting so sick on it, like I get so sick on them. Yeah, maybe that's why, cause I remember just being like, wait, this is what you take for a headache, but yeah, that was, that was interesting. And then postpartum, I would say wasn't as hard until it got. I think like the sleep deprivation, like long-term, is really what got me, because I was like I'm fine, this is weird, I'm fine, Everything's fine. And I started working out at six weeks and I was determined to lose the weight, because I only lost like 10 pounds from the hospital. And how much weight did you gain again?

Speaker 2: 31:56

I gained. I was actually on the low end because I didn't really have much of an appetite for most of my pregnancy and then there was no room, yeah, and then I think I gained like 10 pounds between my last appointment and the day I delivered because of the preeclampsia.

Speaker 1: 32:15

Okay.

Speaker 2: 32:15

But I was actually. I was like the skinniest I've been in my adult life after having the kids. Really, oh wow. I was like the size I was in high school, but I've never felt as weak or depleted, interesting, okay.

Speaker 1: 32:29

So, yeah, I definitely didn't have that experience. But, yeah, I can imagine how I mean you're and did you breastfeed? Yeah, so like that too. So that is another thing I didn't realize was going to be so difficult. Like it was the easiest part of my journey, I will say, was my breastfeeding part, like he ate, and we didn't have issues like that. But looking back, I'm now like, oh, I think he also has a milk protein issue because his stomach would just be huge and when he was on formula he was way better.

Speaker 1: 32:58

But yeah, I started and this is something I wouldn't recommend to do but I started getting really focused on losing the weight by the time I went back to work, which was 14 weeks after giving birth, because I knew my job was so demanding, like I was on meetings from like 6 am to 6 pm some days and that was just very normal because I was supporting a global team. But I knew I would never lose it if I didn't lose it before I got back to work. So I was unhealthily obsessed with that because I was like I have to get back to this. I wonder if my postpartum experience would have been better had I had more time off or given myself more grace to not have to lose it all by the time I went back to work.

Speaker 2: 33:41

I mean, I just feel like how can we not be obsessed when it's been shoved down our throats about celebrities on magazine covers talking about how they bounce back? And I really think bounce back culture is about a lot more than a body. I think it's about kind of bouncing back to your norm of your pre-baby life, of everything you know your marriage, your friends, your work, your everything. But yeah, I mean, I think that the way your body looks is kind of the most tangible representation of that bounce back ideal. And so when someone says like, oh, I couldn't stop thinking about my body, I'm like I don't blame you because it's the world we live in.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Yeah, and I don't think it's also like you're never going to be the same after you give birth. You're just not. I mean, there's scientific studies that your brain has changed. You have DNA from your children in your brain like you're not ever going to be the same. And I think I wasn't prepared for that too. I wasn't prepared for my marriage to change, for my friendships to change. We were in a pandemic, so it was different. But, yeah, it was just you're just not yourself anymore, like you're just never going to be yourself.

Speaker 1: 34:45

And I remember just being like going from meeting to try to pump and my, my milk dried up pretty quickly after I went back to work because I just I'd be on these meetings and I like couldn't relax, and so it was just like, okay, let's just move over to formula. But it was really hard for me to give up breastfeeding because I'm like I should be able to do this. I wasn't able to deliver vaginally, like there, there's something wrong with my body if I can't also do this. But I think probably if I would have kind of submitted to hey, this is better for myself, it probably my experience may have been different, but I don't know. Did your relationships change in, like your marriage and your friendships.

Speaker 2: 35:24

I think my marriage probably got stronger. Oh, okay, I think, I mean I don't know. I think that this is it honestly didn't change as much as I expected it to, and I don't really want to say that, because Now you should be able to say that that's not everyone's experience, but I don't think it changed as much as I thought it would.

Speaker 2: 35:46

I also don't even think my friendships changed as much as I thought they would, but I think that's because a lot of my friends kind of had kids around the same time. I also think a lot of it with me is just that I had the preparation of working in the space beforehand and I think I kind of knew what to expect a little bit more than most. There were certain things like, I think, internally, the experience I couldn't have anticipated, but a lot of the external stuff. I had already decided to step away from work because I had a better sense of how not set up for mothers our workplace is just by, you know, covering the topic. Or I had a better sense of, like how people make you feel if you breastfeed in public, or what your marriage starts to feel like.

Speaker 2: 36:29

I think I was prepared for all that because I had spent so much time talking to moms, to experts, you know, paying attention to the social media conversation around motherhood, all of that. So I think that maybe that's why I was kind of in a different place. But what about you? Did you feel like?

Speaker 1: 36:45

yours changed. Yeah, it was so much harder than I thought it would be. I got really close with some people who had more experience with kids. I had one friend who kind of saved me because she was in her 20s and so she didn't have the family commitment, so she was really able to be there for me emotionally. But I don't think I communicated with my husband about everything I was going through. I communicated with my friends more about how much I was struggling and so my relationship with my husband just like took a nosedive and we're very different in general.

Speaker 1: 37:14

He we're both I think I've mentioned this before we're both more type B personalities at work. He's not like. His work is very deep, he's very detail oriented to work and stuff, loves an Excel spreadsheet, but he's more go with the flow. Where I was like no, he needs to be on a sleep schedule, he needs to be doing this. I remember just being in tears begging my husband at like three months, please can we do taking care of babies, please can we sleep train, and he was not on board and I was like, just please try it, I'm going to die. I literally felt like I was going to die and we did it and it was probably life-saving. I would say I know sleep training gets a really bad rap and I think it's because it's called sleep training instead of just like teaching your kid how to sleep because they can't like sync up their sleep cycles yet. But that definitely saved me when we did that. Did you do any sleep training? Could you do sleep training?

Speaker 2: 38:08

with twins. I can kind of relate to what you're saying saying because I think part of it is that moms are just fed so much about like your baby needs to be on a schedule, especially around the time we had kids. Yeah, I think now it's much more like follow your intuition, but we were fed so much about like your baby needs to be sleeping, your baby needs to be on a schedule, you need to have the consolidated sleep for their brain development, whereas now it's like sleep training is abuse. But we didn't try anything until my kids were like 10 months and we tried it and immediately I was like no, can't do it. Okay. And then we tried again at 13 months and I kind of like went into the shower and tried to let my husband handle it and then just cried and it was still not a good situation, so we kind of abandoned it.

Speaker 1: 39:00

Yeah, I remember just crying like because he handled a lot of it, because I just couldn't, and I remember just sitting in bed crying, even even though I knew it was the best thing for me. But I totally understand how people don't, but literally it feels like you're being stabbed.

Speaker 2: 39:17

Well, and even now, I mean six years later I'll see all these TikToks about how, like sleep trainers are abusive parents, and I feel so much guilt, even though I didn't even really do it.

Speaker 1: 39:27

I you know, paid my entire way through grad school. I like I can't. You know, I paid off my my grad school loans the week before my son was his due date, or maybe it was on his due date. I paid off my final bill and I just remember being like, no, this is my time.

Speaker 1: 39:54

And I think if I would have gone into it a little bit more flexible and been like less of a girl boss type of a person, I wonder if I would have had an easier time, because now my son so when he was about two and a half he got COVID and he has asthma and so he throws up when he coughs. So we were constantly we're like my husband's, like let me just sleep with him. And we were also not in a good place in our marriage and so it just became good space and we still sleep with our son now and he's almost five. And I remember when I was still working again, I was begging my husband we need to sleep, train him because this is not good, we need to like be in our own bed and all of these things. And as soon as I made the transition to be like I'm going to stay home now, all of that went out the window and I'm fine sleeping with him.

Speaker 1: 40:38

I enjoy it. I love that. My husband likes to sleep with him, and did you, and so I don't know if there's something there, because my stay at home mom friends are also the same way about co-sleeping, but my friends who work are very much like no, they have to go to bed on their own by this time and it's a lot more rigid. I don't know if you've had a similar experience.

Speaker 2: 40:58

Yeah, I mean we never co-slept until they were probably like one and a half, because I had just done too much work around how dangerous that is. Yeah, ours wasn't until two and a half in bassinets and then ribs, and there was definitely a period where everyone was like, don't ever let them sleep in your bed, and if they would want to come into our bed when they were sick or something, we'd be like, okay, we should try to get them back. Now we have totally let that go out the window and they're in our bed every single night, okay, so I feel less bad, but I'm like I.

Speaker 1: 41:46

but when I was working, I'm like I need that time away. And even like yesterday he was home you know sick, and I got zero minutes to myself, including like I put him down and within like 10 minutes he was crying for me again. Just because you know and I have to remember that when you're sick you want the person that's closest to you and that's hard to remember when it is you, but I'm, you know, I was able to go to sleep with him, but it's so much like I don't feel like I need because I get space from him. He goes to school, but I remember that being like my only time to have to myself for like those two hours at night.

Speaker 2: 42:19

Yeah, yeah, no, I need to have that time. We'll put them down and then come downstairs and then go back to the bed, but I need that time at night as well.

Speaker 1: 42:29

Yeah, and usually like now I'll put them to bed, because I don't know if you do most of the bedtimes, I do most of the bedtimes, which I'm fine with. Now I'm like ever since I kind of I think it was Rach Rachel Rach on Life who was like when she quit her job she thought about being a stay-at-home mom as a job, and so I've tried to take that into like my mindset and I'm like no, this is my job. I'm putting him to bed, I'm good at this, let me do this. But then I do get a break, because even if my husband tries to put him down now, it's just like he doesn't know the routine and so it all goes haywire.

Speaker 2: 43:02

Yeah, we tag team bedtime you have two.

Speaker 2: 43:09

But there was a long period where I would breastfeed one and then hand them off to my husband and then take the other one and breastfeed and then hand them and he would always kind of be the closer and when he would travel it would be so hard for me to get them to sleep when they were around three. Now it's like, okay, they're six, Like if they're not asleep by bedtime, sharp, it's not the end of the world. But that was the hardest part of my husband traveling for a long time was bedtime.

Speaker 1: 43:32

I mean I can't imagine especially like yeah, and I bet mornings too, because now that they're in school, getting them out like those are the two hardest time, those big transitions, at least in our household.

Speaker 2: 43:44

Yeah, yeah. And even coming home from school is always hard too.

Speaker 1: 43:48

Yeah, did you read Ida Mae's book about giving birth, about childbirth? I didn't read any books, so that was the only one I read and my manager at the time suggested it. I did not realize that he was anti-hospital, all of that stuff, like I just didn't know. I didn't know him, like that at least. And I remember reading it and it was about this woman and she runs the farm in I think it's in Tennessee and it's where people give home births and they have like very experienced midwives.

Speaker 1: 44:17

And so I was reading through all these things and I would listen to my like five hertz music, whatever it was, and sit in the bath and be like, okay, I'm going to give birth like this. And and I think so much of what we're fed is similar to that where it's just like, and it's like if you can't relax, then it's your fault, like it literally says you need to relax your sphincter and if you can't, of like characterization of childbirth is something we're fed throughout the entire process of motherhood where it's like, well, if you're not, if this, if this isn't easy for you, if you can't do bedtime, well, you're doing something wrong and it just feels like everything, no matter what we do, it's always the wrong fault, always.

Speaker 2: 44:59

Yeah, I mean that one woman on TikTok who says that basically, if you find being a stay-at-home mom hard, it's just because you're not.

Speaker 1: 45:08

So how does she say that? Because I was not a stay-at-home mom, but weekends were my hardest times of the week.

Speaker 2: 45:16

That is something that I noticed a lot. A lot of the people who kind of looked at me like what are you doing when I decided to stay home would say that to me they would be like hate weekends with kids. They're so much harder than the week and I'm like, yeah, you realize that every day without my partner home.

Speaker 1: 45:34

Yeah, yeah, because he travels for work and he goes into the office.

Speaker 2: 45:38

Right when they were first born, he was going into the office and he goes into the office. Right when they were first born, he was going into the office. He is from home now when he's not traveling. But, yeah, initially and I don't even think I realized that this shouldn't have been the way it was but he would like come home from work and then go for a run, and I think I was just like okay, and now I'm like no, like I've been at home alone with these kids all day, like you're going to come and you know you're going to play with them and you're going to be with them. Yeah, I think that first year is different, but I also think that I just needed to kind of understand that being a stay-at-home parent didn't mean that I had 24-7 responsibilities and that they solely fell on me.

Speaker 1: 46:18

Yeah, and I think that is something like where I because I have a friend who was a stay at home, is a stay at home mom and that is, her husband gets an hour to decompress when he gets home, and I'm like, but what about you, like, where's your decompression time? Like that, I don't know. Being staying at home with a child is so much harder. I will say also, it's really extremely difficult to work all week and then to have your nine to five, your five to nine, your nine to five and then another five to nine, so that was really difficult For you. When did you notice that it started to get like easier or more enjoyable? How old.

Speaker 2: 46:57

I think that, like the end of the fourth trimester was a period where it started to get easier, and then, around like five or six months again, I started to really feel like, oh, it's not just that, it's getting easier, I'm actually really having fun now.

Speaker 1: 47:13

That's great to hear and for anyone listening. The fourth trimester is the three months after you give birth.

Speaker 2: 47:20

Yeah, I almost feel like they're not human for that first trimester, for that fourth trimester.

Speaker 1: 47:26

So with ours, he was very alert. Being in the hospital that was the first thing everyone said to us was they're like, wow, he's so alert. I remember just being like what is everyone talking about? And then we started meeting kids recently who, like they don't wake up. For that first three month period they're just asleep, which was not our experience at all. So this is not even two weeks after he was born. So it's 12 days after he was born and this is him after not sleeping for 12 hours during the day just refusing, like like that sums him up, and he, he just wouldn't sleep, and so that was my experience.

Speaker 1: 48:00

I thought it was really hard until about 18 months, and then I, like, took my first deep breath at a year, then 18 months, and then three was really hard. Three was really hard for me too. I can't imagine having two three-year-olds at once.

Speaker 2: 48:17

Yeah, it was a lot, and they're so physically capable at that age, but they have zero self-preservation skills, and so it's just like keeping them safe is really hard at that age.

Speaker 1: 48:31

I remember we took my son out of a school that he was originally in because he would come home and he was so defiant and he would just yell fuck you mommy and fuck you daddy at the top of his lungs, and we started doing timeouts at that time because I had done a lot of research and I was like timeouts are really bad for them, it's like abuse. And then we were like what the hell do we do when your three-year-old is yelling fuck you? It went away pretty quickly, though, after we moved him to school, so peer influence is very important.

Speaker 2: 48:59

Interesting? Yes, we are. We're finding that a lot now too, with the kids in kindergarten.

Speaker 1: 49:09

Yeah, what else was I? Oh, so the one thing that I didn't touch on yet is that I'll just touch on briefly is anxiety and things that I thought were normal, because I'm an anxious person For anyone listening. If you are going through this, if you notice somebody that you love is going through this, but I would not drive with my son for eight months. I didn't drive in the car because I thought I was going to kill him and I thought that was normal. Did you have any of that? I had a lot of that.

Speaker 2: 49:29

So we were in Chicago until my kids were 18 months and I never even had a car there because it was so walkable. But after we moved here, there was a period I don't think I drove both kids alone until they were like two Okay, interesting, I A good time so that you weren't really going anywhere.

Speaker 1: 49:47

But yeah, no, I was paranoid, I would not. And then the intrusive thoughts, like I was constantly scared I was going to hurt him. We had to take all the knives down and put them away in the kitchen because I was like if I walk by them one might fall and hit him and kill him. The other one that was funny, which now, looking at kind of child safety, maybe it wasn't so crazy. I'm curious your thoughts. We got we moved into a new house when I was pregnant and we got new blinds installed because didn't have any blinds, Didn't realize that they had the strings on them. So when he was born and we spent a lot of money to outfit our entire house with these blinds. So when he was born I was like I won't have these, Get him, get him out, I need new blinds. So they came back and they replaced him again. So we spent all of this money because I was just like. I just knew he was going to tangle his neck in them and die.

Speaker 2: 50:42

That was the other thing. Yeah yeah, these intrusive thoughts are real. I think I had intrusive thoughts about my husband falling asleep at the wheel on his way to work and I really wonder if that was truly an intrusive thought or if it was just kind of something someone put in my head about why I shouldn't expect him to wake up and do feedings.

Speaker 1: 50:58

Yeah, yeah, that's interesting because it's like and I know Paige talks about this a lot where I did the thing where, when I was on maternity leave, my husband didn't get up. I was like, no, you need to sleep, and I didn't realize that, like me taking care of my son the next day, like that is also a job. I think I was so in a different mindset. But yeah, did somebody say that to you? That he shouldn't wake up?

Speaker 2: 51:20

I feel like people said it and I can't remember it explicitly being said, but I feel like there are all these messages like, oh, you should let him sleep because he has to go to work the next day and he has to drive, and things like that. But I remember my dad, who's a physician, and I were talking about it and he never woke up with me and we were talking about it and, like he never did, he never woke up with me and we were talking about it and I said, dad, I guess, like your mindset was probably if I'm tired the next day, somebody could die on my watch, but I think that's a little bit different his job is a little yeah but but if you're a mom and you got the ball and you have a kid at home with you, yeah, somebody could die on your watch.

Speaker 2: 52:01

You know it's, the stakes are that high and that's, I think, the hardest thing about being a kid at home with you. Yeah, somebody could die on your watch. You know it's, the stakes are that high and that's, I think, the hardest thing about being a stay-at-home parent is the stakes are really fucking high Every second of the day when you are crossing a parking lot with your kid high stakes.

Speaker 1: 52:14

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 52:15

When you're cutting an apple because your child needs it right now and they like try to grab an apple slice from the cutting board. The stakes are high and that's what I think people dismiss.

Speaker 1: 52:28

About the experience yeah, I was walking one time with my son on my front and I slipped and fell because I was just so tired because I was doing double day workouts Again, do not recommend, nobody should ever do that, especially while you're breastfeeding and I fell and I just remember like I called him and I was like my husband, I was like you need to get here. And then I because I wasn't sleeping and I was pushing it too hard, and that's that was my wake up call, that I couldn't do that. So I know this is a. I know this is a long one. It's the first time I've told it all to people who don't know my story, because it's usually like you don't, you don't talk, these are things we don't talk about, which is why we're doing this. Yeah, yeah, so that's kind of my experience. Thank you for letting me share, of course. Thank you for listening.