.png)
Do you want the truth?
Welcome to Do You Want The Truth? where we dive deep into the real raw stories from parents in the trenches of parenthood.
Season 2 is brought to you by Sam Strom and Freelance Journalist Zara Hanawalt, along with guest co-hosts such as Jaime Fisher.
Season 1 is brought to you by Paige Connell & Sam Strom. They bring you candid conversations with parents who share their experiences of parenthood and what they wish they knew before having kids. You'll hear the real stories. The stories that are typically reserved for best friends. The stories with TMI. We believe in the power of truth telling because when someone asks, do you want the truth? We always say yes. Join us as we explore the highs and lows and everything in between so you can feel less alone on your journey.
Connect with Sam: https://www.linkedin.com/samanthastrom https://www.tiktok.com/@samanthastorms
Do you want the truth?
The Truth About Daily Routines and #MomGuilt with Ellie Rineck
Ever wondered what really goes on behind the Instagram-perfect scenes of modern motherhood? In this episode, we’re joined by Ellie Rineck—mom of two, host of A Day in Her Life podcast who is unapologetically real about the highs and lows of parenting.
When she’s not recording conversations with women across all walks of life, Ellie works as a project manager and implementation lead in AI healthcare tech.
She joins us to talk about high-risk pregnancies and hormone chaos to postpartum recovery and the pressures of breastfeeding.
Plus, we dig into the mental load, unexpected waves of partner guilt, and why outsourcing might just be your secret to survival. If you've ever felt overwhelmed by motherhood or questioned if you're doing enough, this episode is the supportive, unfiltered talk you didn’t know you needed. Ellie also shares her insights from 100+ interviews with women on how they actually manage their chaotic, beautiful lives.
🔗 Links & Resources:
Ellie's Podcast: A Day in Her Life
Pepper Books (Spicy Romance Subscription): shoppepperbooks.com
Follow Ellie on Instagram: @adayinherlifepod
Ready to outsource? Remember to use Peacock Parents code
💬 Closing Thought
If this episode resonated with you, take a moment to rate and review the podcast, follow for more real talk, and share it with a fellow mom who needs to hear she’s not alone. Your support helps more women find this space for unfiltered, honest parenting convos. 💛
Website: https://www.doyouwantthetruthpod.com
Connect with Sam:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/samanthastrom
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@samanthastorms
Connect with Zara:
Zara Hanawalt https://www.linkedin.com/in/zara-hanawalt/
TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@zarahanawalt
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/zarahanawalt/
I absolutely hated being pregnant. I think that was one of the hardest things for me, because I would consider myself somewhat of a control freak and or like I like to be in control or understand what's going on. And for the first time in a while, my body was like completely not my own or first time ever, I guess, is probably a better way to say that because your body was.
Speaker 2:Do you have any conditions or anything that made it feel like specifically out of control?
Speaker 1:No, I. So I had been on an I mean, if we're getting real deep, I had been on an IUD for like 10 years and so my and because I reacted really poorly to hormonal birth control, and so then I went off my IUD to get pregnant, as one does, and my hormones were just absolutely raging and that was really hard for me to like understand what was going on, and I think it was probably like the waves were even more wavy because I hadn't been experiencing them for so long, hadn't been experiencing them for so long. And so then come around to getting pregnant, and then my hormones are just chaotic as a result of being pregnant, and so I found it really hard. My anxiety was like off the charts. I was never treated for post or prenatal anxiety, but I definitely was extremely anxious and my kids ended up both being high risk pregnancies, not like super high risk. They were both like what I would probably call some of the like tamest high risk you'd probably be, but it was not something I really enjoyed and I had to go to the doctor all the time. So that didn't really like contribute to me being calm and cool and collected and cool and collected. So I would say.
Speaker 1:My son had a single umbilical artery, which is a condition, and so the artery for the baby fetus is actually what takes the deoxygenated blood. It's backwards of what it is in the. You can fact check me on this, but I'm like 90% sure For us, arteries carry oxygenated blood and veins carry deoxygenated blood. For babies, for fetuses, it's the opposite, and there's usually two umbilical arteries taking out waste from the fetus. And single umbilical artery is like a pretty common thing. It was discovered at 20 weeks and he was completely fine, but because of that we needed to go to the doctor all the time. And then my daughter had what is also very common is hydronephrosis, so her kidneys were one of them. Actually both of them were larger and they had a lot of extra fluid in them. It's something that supposedly resolves itself either pre-birth or after birth. For my daughter it has not completely resolved, but it is not something that we are concerned about long-term. We see a urologist regularly.
Speaker 1:But that caused me more anxiety because also this was one of those awful patient experience experience scenarios where, like I had the ultrasound, the tech like clearly could see that something was going on and I have enough medical understanding to know, like what you're seeing is like those are different sizes and those look very big and those don't look like they should be that big. And so, like I knew something was suspicious and bottom line patient experience terrible. My daughter, like I could tell something was wrong. They don't tell me anything's wrong.
Speaker 1:My husband is like I think everything's fine. I'm like, no, what, what world were you living in? Like that was there's definitely something wrong. And they're like, oh well, the doctor might want to talk to you. So like maybe we'll go sit you in this room. They put us in a room for like 25 minutes. No one ever came to talk to us and I'm like, well, it doesn't look like the doctor has time, so she'll call you later. And I was like, okay, clearly something is wrong. And I was like so stressed and bottom line, everything's fine. Babies are both fine.
Speaker 1:But my anxiety was not so in the end everyone's happy, everyone's healthy, but I just didn't enjoy being pregnant, and that is why we're pretty sure we're done it too, because I don't think I can do it again.
Speaker 2:Both of those conditions you said are pretty common. I have never heard of either of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, they're both really common and then, but they're not so like they're pretty low risk, high risk, but like, because they're common, they have a very defined like protocol of like you do these things and you get all these x-ray or like extra ultrasounds. It was pretty cool to see some of them, especially with my first when I was like very concerned, like getting to go every two weeks to know everything was fine, was better, but just kind of fed the fire, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so welcome to the pod Ellie.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I'm excited to catch up with you because we talked on your podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, maybe two or three years ago at this point, but it's so good to have you on.
Speaker 3:I just think I was telling Sam. I think the concept of your podcast is so smart and so important and we're really excited to talk to you about your own personal parenting experience and also what you've learned through talking to so many other women, many of whom but not all right are mothers.
Speaker 1:Yeah, most guests have been moms. I have definitely had some single women, some married without kids, but most are moms.
Speaker 3:Well, tell us a little bit about yourself, and also about your podcast.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so my name is Ellie Rinnick. I live in the Boston area, just south of Boston proper. I have two kids who I love and adore. They are six and three, a boy and a girl. My boy is in kindergarten this year, which that's. If you want to talk about the truth about kindergarten, like holy shiza, I do.
Speaker 2:My kids are in kindergarten next year.
Speaker 1:That was an adjustment. So I've got a kindergartner and a preschooler and I also live with my husband, who is extremely patient, kind and doting. Thankfully, he puts up with me. I've been gone for work a lot recently and so he's been picking up a lot of slack, which I'm very grateful for. I have a dog who is my. Children also tell the pediatrician that they have another sibling. Whenever they're like, oh, you only have one sibling. They're like no, we have Baker. And I'm like okay, guys, baker's a dog, but we love him.
Speaker 1:I work during the day, as in during the day, I am a project manager, implementation lead for an AI technology in healthcare, and in my spare time I have a podcast where I interview women about what their daily lives look like. I started this podcast in 2023. At this point, so like two exactly two years ago almost my first episode was March of 2023. And it was kind of spurred out of the idea of, like I was sitting right where we're talking right now on my desk. I had had an absolute morning from H-E-double hockey sticks bringing my older kid to school and my younger kid was with a nanny at home and so for my older kid he didn't understand, like why she got to stay home with the nanny who, by the way, is still one of our favorite people and so, like it was like a knockdown, drag out, like putting him in the car seat, that whole we've all been there for a parent and I was like, why are my days so hard? Like what am I doing wrong? And so that's why I decided to start this podcast, because I couldn't find a podcast that like, or anything that really went into the true detail of like, what do your days look like? And so I asked some friends like would you listen to this? They said yes. I was like, okay, I'll start a podcast.
Speaker 1:And everyone's like well, what do you know about starting a podcast? I was like, absolutely nothing. And so that's, that's how a day in her life started. I am, I would say, one of those people who like, if I don't know how to do it, I'm going to figure it out and probably make a few steps along the way. But I'm not a what's the word? Like perfection gets in the way of progress, like I'll just kind of do it and see, see how it goes. And so that's kind of how I started the podcast, and a hundred exactly episodes later, we're still chatting with women about what their days look like and I've learned a lot of fun things from different women, but mostly the bottom line is that no one has it all figured out and we're all figuring it out in whatever season we're in right now.
Speaker 2:I think that was a really shocking thing for me. What you're talking about right now is the days like you open your eyes and there's a kid in your face or the crying or whatever, and you go to work and you get off work and you pick up the kid, and then you have to do all that and then then it starts all over, and that was really shocking. Is that something that either of you were ready for? Or maybe that's just how my day is?
Speaker 1:I think what was surprising for me is how I guess what you're saying is it's somewhat relentless which it is but I feel like there's also something that I have always been good at is carving out time to do the things that I like to do, and so, whether when I was in high school or not high school, when I was in early in my career, applying to med school and also working like a 60 hour a week job like I was able to fit in the time and had a lot of fun doing other things too.
Speaker 1:As a parent, it took me a while to figure out how to find that footing to put what I want to do into my days, but I feel like you have to be a relentless prioritizer when it as a in that regard, like you either have to say, like all right, this is, does this fit into the thing that I want to be doing right now, or not. And you can find a lot of time in your days is one thing that I've kind of discovered and something that I've heard from different women. But you also like that's going to be the first thing to fall when other things become overwhelming. So I was saying right now, like my kids are. One of my kids, homesick, was strapped, like those types of things happen. And then how do you either readjust what you can or make a sacrifice somewhere else?
Speaker 2:them. They have a little bit more autonomy.
Speaker 3:They can go like you all have kids home as we speak and they're playing right now, and so, but like in those younger, four, three, that's, that's tough, yeah, and I think it's also so hard. I didn't expect to feel so much guilt around personal time. That's just the universal experience of motherhood that nobody fully prepares you for. Is that? It's just this narrative that is so baked into our culture around being a mother and being a parent, but mostly being a mother right that you essentially have to give up anything that you enjoy, anything that is purely for your enjoyment, like that, has to be at the bottom of the list and people will tell you you know you can't pour from an empty cup, but like, why does it have to be about pouring? Am I a vessel? Am I just a vessel to be pouring into everyone else's cup? And the only reason that I should ever do anything for myself is because I can show up better for other people if I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would say that's one thing that I have tried really hard to not put on myself is the guilt. It is everywhere, like, yeah, I feel like you look on social media and people are like, oh, mom, guilt, mom, guilt, mom, guilt. I had a friend once who told me she didn't believe in guilt, and this was like many, many moons ago, which this was unrelated to having kids. But I still think about that, as I don't know why, but like that one phrase still sticks in my mind, like I don't believe in guilt. And I was like, ok, tell me more.
Speaker 1:I don't remember what her logic was, but I just remember that she was so convinced that like guilt shouldn't be a thing and I was like, well, obviously it very much is a thing and I try it's one thing that I notice in myself when I'm feeling that way of like, I try to like embody her sometimes and be like I shouldn't feel this way because this person said it that way and like really felt empowered by it, so like maybe I'll just kind of remember that, but I've, I mean, I feel it all the time.
Speaker 1:Like I was just in London and Paris with my mom and my sister for a week, while my husband was home with the kids, I felt a ton of guilt because my daughter was sick while I was gone and I missed this, that and the other thing I missed baseball first day, which, like no one wants to go to baseball. So, like those types of, I still feel it. But it's one thing that I like always try to check myself in feeling, and then I always and always try to check myself in feeling and then I always try to remind myself, like you don't have to feel guilt, you're choosing to feel the guilt rather than choosing I think that was her logic is like you're choosing to feel the guilt rather than embrace whatever that other feeling is. But also, like Dr Becky will always tell us, two things can be true you can feel guilty, but also like go do the thing.
Speaker 2:And it's almost like self-flagellation a little bit, where it's like no, you shouldn't be enjoying this. I don't have a lot of mom guilt. That's not something that I'm like get away from me. I have guilt if I don't do things around the house, that kind of stuff. More partner guilt. I would say yes, absolutely. So that is like, and I don't even drink, so that's like that's concerning. But I don't. I don't have as much of the mom guilt for me it's more like well, if I don't do this, it's more of the like, not perfection. But the only place I like in type A is in my parenting style. So I'm like my husband was making lunch this morning so this could happen, and I was like oh, did you put the hot water in to heat up the thermos for his chicken nuggets? And he looks at me and I'm like it's fine. Well, you know, like that, it's that kind of stuff I'm like well, it's not going to be done, right if I don't do it, which is also like so dumb.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but such a huge part of being a mom is just that feeling of nothing gets done to my standard unless I step in and do it. And then you know, you have all these conversations about these equitable partnerships, but nobody really talks about how hard it is to give up some of that control.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then like who cares if the chicken nuggets are cold?
Speaker 1:Like I am like a food safety freak, so I would care. Oh, because it's not at like 175 for the entire time. Yeah, partner guilt, I feel like, is something that's not talked about very often, sam, that you mentioned, and something I feel, probably more than mom guilt well, interesting, um what? About. I just have.
Speaker 1:I've never heard that term before, but I think I just made it, that is but that is something that I actually feel more guilt about is like things that I'm doing that I feel strongly I need to do for me and I don't feel like my kids are missing out on me being there, like business trips, for example.
Speaker 1:Like I have to go to a business trip for my job and I think it's good to see kids have a strong two parents who have strong connections to their jobs and like what they do. But then I feel more guilt on that being on my husband. When I'm gone. He is more than capable, like there's no doubt in my mind that he is able to do everything I can while I'm gone, but I feel guilt that that's on top of him Even and I know he feels similarly when he travels. But like it's not that I'm leaving the kids, it's that I'm putting the burden on my husband in those moments and I mean he says it's fine and I say it's fine, but I still feel that way. So like it's not, like a, it's not a. He's not putting it on me, let's put it that way. It's not making me feel that way.
Speaker 2:But so I think that's kind of like the guilt too, though instead of mom guilt it's like, oh, I don't deserve to be doing this, Like I should be home helping my partner. My husband went away for the first time because parenting has been really challenging for me. Ellie, I know this is our first time meeting, but like that is if I were to have a platform Paige always says my platform, as parenting is fucking hard, is what she would call my platform and like it's like way harder than anyone told me. And so my husband couldn't do a lot of traveling before because I just couldn't handle it like it was so hard for me. And now that it's gotten easier.
Speaker 2:My husband went away for two weeks this year to go hiking in Patagonia and it was incredible like I had a great time with my son he's older now. We had, we got I'm like a toddler we got to eat on the floor. It was great. And so now I'm like okay, where's your next two week trip? When are you going next? And I think that was helpful for me, because now I'm like okay, now I'm not going to feel bad when I go do something Like even though he's working right now and I'm and I'm not, I think, having that like going away for joy. Have you guys done that yet? Have you gone away for joy instead of just work.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was just in London and Paris for a week with my mom and my sister.
Speaker 2:That's what I did last year Very much joy, isn't it so fun that sounds amazing.
Speaker 1:I actually didn't, because my in-laws came and stayed with my husband, so I felt like he had extra support in that time and I mean I didn't feel a lot of guilt at all while I was gone and I actually was commenting on this to a friend.
Speaker 1:One of the feelings that I had was that I felt like I could relax the most on vacation when I was with my mom and my sister because my husband was there with the kids and I know that there's like no one else better to be with them than him.
Speaker 1:Like we are the A team right Me and my husband and there's B teams and probably even C teams, but I think the B is probably our like lower, lowest level of comfort there. But even when they're with the B team and my husband's with me traveling and we're doing that for joy then I feel like I'm constantly worrying about things that could go wrong with my kids, whereas when my husband was with them, I didn't worry about them at all because I know that they were in the right hands and even there was an emergency with my daughter and my husband was able to handle it and just like sent me an update and everything was fine. So that, I think, was something that I noticed of like I've never been as relaxed on vacation as I am when he's with them, but I don't want to vacation not with my husband in the future.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 1:So that was a realization and I think it's also the phase where I'm like my kids are still pretty young like three is still pretty young to leave or I still feel like it's I don't like leaving her for a long period of time because she's got some health things that we've been battling, and it's I don't like leaving her for a long period of time because she's got some health things that we've been battling and it's just a little bit more risky in my mind to leave her at this point. But yeah, I felt no guilt in Paris because my husband was nailing it and he had his in-laws, so he was my in-laws, so he was fine aren't they?
Speaker 2:isn't it crazy? You go to Paris and it's like you think it's gonna be so expensive and it's like you can get a croissant and espresso or coffee for three euro, and then I'm like what? I can't even get a coffee at Starbucks for five dollars. What is happening? I thought Paris was expensive.
Speaker 3:They are smaller. I will say that yeah, but they're better like they are better it's like, yeah, anyway.
Speaker 2:Well, you mentioned being at hormonal fluctuation when you got pregnant. What was postpartum like for you?
Speaker 1:With my son was a complete mindfuck. So postpartum was tough. I was one of the first in my friend group to have a kid. One or two had had kids before me. My other close friend who had kids didn't live nearby so I never really got to see her during that initial postpartum phase. My son was born.
Speaker 1:I lost a lot of blood. I had a tough physical recovery and my son had jaundice because he was born early or not causal but coincidental. So for the first week of his life we were taking him to the doctor like every single day for making sure his bilirubin was up to date or whatever. My body is like recovering from losing blood and you know body is like recovering from losing blood and you know birthing a human. I remember very vividly like walking to the doctor's office and we were late and my husband I was like just go ahead, because you know that feeling when you're like you're iron deficient and you just can't. You're like your head feels heavy and you're like maybe I'm gonna faint but maybe not. So I was like you go ahead, I'm gonna just like take this very slow. And he was fine. Obviously that's the bottom line of everything. He was fine.
Speaker 1:My husband only had a week-ish of parental leave. He had no parental leave at his job. He tried to stay with me as long as possible. We hired a postpartum doula, which was helpful, but breastfeeding was really, really tough. My son had a bad latch. I I my boobs just like hurt when they fill and I know that like breastfeeding is not supposed to be painful which is all bullshit but like yeah, it hurts when you're first getting started and you're not used to it. I also used a breast pump to try to like express a little bit the first few days at home, but no one told me you needed nipple cream in that breast pump and I developed like a nipple crack. That was like a whole other thing.
Speaker 1:I then developed an oversupply and I remember one of my friends came over and she had a kid and I was like why didn't you tell me it was this hard? Like why didn't you tell me breastfeeding was this tough? And she's like I didn't want to scare you off. I was like next time I'm going to tell someone. To be fair, this might not be easy and that's okay. If it's not easy, here are some resources. You don't want to fear monger, but at the same time, you don't want to assume like breastfeeding is going to be this beautiful, wonderful experience. It's not, or it was not for me. That was not my experience and I don't want anyone. I would never want one of my close friends to be like surprised by that in the future. I would want them to like know that they have resources and can get help.
Speaker 1:And I ended up nursing my son for 17 months or something ridiculous, but he was fine. I was fine. But it was a torturous procedure in the beginning and I had an oversupply like 20 ounces of milk I would pump at a time. It was absurd, but emotionally I was better than I thought I was going to be for postpartum. Like I had had a conversation with my husband of like if I do any of these things, this is who to call. Like we'd had a whole conversation about postpartum psychosis. Like I was very afraid of postpartum depression, but I was. That was fine.
Speaker 1:It was more the physical breastfeeding problem for me with my son, for with my daughter my delivery was much faster. I had more like trauma as a result of that. From the delivery my daughter was huge and she had a lip and tongue tie and we didn't know. And then she wasn't gaining weight, my breast milk supply completely disappeared. I fed her and then I pumped for 20 minutes and not a single drop came out and I, emotionally, that was my low with her. I remember sitting there on the couch like completely dejected. I was like I know my body can produce far more than this. So we got her tongue clipped, which was a traumatic experience in its own right, and I worked with a lactation consultant and triple fed for about six weeks, which was also incredibly taxing on my mental health what is?
Speaker 1:triple fed. What is that? Triple feeding is when you nurse, pump and bottle feed. Oh OK, so like it's what you do. You do if you're like, trying to raise your, if you, if they're not latching right and you need to increase your supply, so like, yeah, so I did that for seven weeks.
Speaker 2:Or you need to help at night.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But I did that every single feed for six or eight weeks. Three single feed, yeah. So that's, that's the difference. Like she wasn't, I wasn't producing enough so that I would pump to stimulate more, or she wasn't nursing long enough, and then I would give her a bottle of what was left over. So that really took a tax on my mental health.
Speaker 1:And if I was less stubborn I probably would have switched to formula. There is absolutely nothing wrong with feeding your baby formula. Like I don't want anyone to hear this and think like that. That was my mindset. My mindset was just stubborn because I was like I know my body can do this, why can't I get there? And again, if I could go back and tell myself to do one thing, I would say like stop the bullshit. And just like get some formula, you'll be fine. And we got back on track. I breastfed my daughter, I think, for like 18 months in the end, like we were fine. But that period of my life was like definitely the darkest I remember being, and I just felt very like despondent, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah and I think they're like I mean, obviously there's a lot of pressure to breastfeed from like the lactation consultants come into your room right after you give birth and they give you pamphlets and then they come back and all of that. And I remember breastfeeding. My friends were like just stop breastfeeding, I just stop. And I was like no, and then once my husband kind of took over for his short like parental leave, he started like just sneaking formula and the kids started sleeping better and all of that stuff and it was just helpful. But yeah, anyone listening? I mean this is like such a complex issue and there's so much stigma on both sides around it Like just quit or just do this, and it's like there is no just about any of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Or if you do quit cold turkey, like then you have to like deal with your cabbage leaves on your boobs and like it's none of it's easy by any means and you do what makes sense for you and I.
Speaker 1:I had a ton of support from lactation consultants and friends and I was able to make what I wanted to make work work. But I would say for my, looking back at that period of my life, I'm like I wish I had given myself a little bit more grace to do something different which, even though it wasn't what I wanted to do, I think might have been better for me in the long run. Bottom line we're fine now, but it all comes out in the wash, I think. But yeah, I definitely don't want anyone to feel like I am anti-formula because I am so pro-formula.
Speaker 2:Zara, you had twins, did you?
Speaker 3:breastfeed. What was that like? Yeah, I breastfed. My daughter never took a bottle, she just flat out refused. So we did the triple feeding in the very beginning until they hit their due date, and then she just stopped taking a bottle.
Speaker 1:But she had a really hard time latching. That's its own trouble in its own right, because then you feel like you can't leave her.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I mean first she had a really hard time latching and so every feed was like 40 minutes probably, I mean just because she would latch and then she would unlatch and we would have to, and it was just, it was so hard and she would spit up most times. But I feel like with me breastfeeding was incredibly hard and then all of a sudden, one day it was easy. Yes, and it's just like you just don't know where that line between. Just keep pushing through because it's going to get easy, and you've tried hard enough, you can try something else's. It's going to get easy and you've tried hard enough, you can try something else's. It just think it's so personal and it's also like you're just trying to manage a million other things, so how do you even figure that out?
Speaker 1:yeah, it's, yeah, it's. The mental load of breastfeeding in itself is like more than the mental load of like I know there are like memes of like you spend 159 million hours breastfeeding, but like it's truly like the mental calculus that you do to breastfeed is like I don't know I dare a nuclear physicist to try it.
Speaker 3:I'll never forget that.
Speaker 2:I don't know if it was painful for you all. Breastfeeding was probably the easiest part of my journey, but, like the, every time it like hurt right at the beginning. Did that happen for you all, where I'm like, oh, every single time, and then it was fine. It's so weird, I didn't get that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's so weird so the letdown is like different for so many people. Like some people have, there's the like condition where you can have um depressive feelings when you have a letdown. There's also like a not eu euphoria, but like I like because it's releasing the oxytocin. Some people have like the opposite reaction. I actually, as an aside, I did a. I host mom support groups for women in my area.
Speaker 2:With all your free time.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right, and I did a training through a local program that supports all types of moms all over the US but was started in Boston, and so we talked so much about lactation and breastfeeding and like what's normal and what's not normal, but it's like crazy how so many people can have different experiences with the same like physiological process, if you will.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and you gave birth. So you gave, did you? It sounds like you gave birth vaginally both times.
Speaker 1:Both times yeah.
Speaker 2:Did they when you lost a lot of blood the first time? Were they like you need a transfusion? Or because we've talked to people who are like I wish I would have gotten a transfusion and I said no?
Speaker 1:or it wasn't something that was offered. I had a retained placenta, and so that's when the placenta doesn't come out when you deliver it. And so I delivered at a hospital that I chose because I wanted to have a midwife. I ended up delivering with a fabulous midwife, but then the placenta didn't fully detach from my uterine lining and so the I had to have a doctor come in to manually extract it.
Speaker 1:At that point my anesthesia had worn off to a fair degree, so I was more present in my feelings than I probably wanted to be. So it was painful, I was feeling very disoriented and my husband was there, like with the baby, and I'm like crying. It was a whole thing. Everyone was fine bottom line, but it was that's where how I lost a lot of blood. But it wasn't enough that I needed a transfusion, and I think I think I probably blocked out a fair amount of what happened afterwards. But once that was resolved I was able to, like go into the postpartum unit, but I did almost faint, like afterwards, and just drink a lot of water.
Speaker 1:But yeah like crazy what your body can go through.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I am anemic, just baseline anemic, and my hemoglobin went really, really low after I delivered and they didn't transfuse me because my body is just kind of used to operating with lower hemoglobin. But I remember it was so scary to even hold my kids because I didn't feel stable on my own feet and then I was like if I faint while I'm holding one of them, that's a huge issue. So yeah, just so much, so much wrapped up in it.
Speaker 2:I had the same feeling. I had to get two blood transfusions and I didn't hold my son for I think it was five hours because I was terrified that I was going to drop him and I was like I just can't. And then finally a nurse came in and she's like you haven't held your child. And I was like no, I'm feeling a little better, maybe I can. And then I held him. I was like, oh, this isn't that hard or scary because I was still laying down, but I was like so terrified of like I'm still trying to recover you won't even let me have water.
Speaker 1:Yet I I distinctly remember patting myself on either side with pillows because I was also afraid that I was going to fall asleep with and we have a pretty high bed, and so whenever I would hold the baby in the middle of the night to like breastfeed, I would like shift the inside, I would put pillows on either side of me and then I would start breastfeeding because I was afraid that I might like pass out not pass out, but like physically pass out from exhaustion. Yeah, and I remember that feeling very vividly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I feel like a lot of people. I mean, people are talking about this more right, we're talking about it right now but I remember being really scared of pairing or like, oh, this is going to be so hard, and that was like the kind of all that I knew about birth. I didn't know, like you can die during birth. You like all these different things that could happen during birth. You know, like what you just said, your placenta might not come out All these different things. That was really shocking, because I had a similar situation to you, ellie, where I started talking to friends and I'm like what the fuck was that? And they're like, oh yeah, didn't want to tell you, and it's like, well, why?
Speaker 1:What the hell I worked in.
Speaker 1:So I've been in healthcare since I graduated from college. I did internships in OB units, so like I knew a lot about maternal health when I got pregnant, probably more than the average person, because I worked with maternity units in every hospital implementation that I did, and so I'd heard pretty much all of the horror stories from the staff that I worked with throughout my, I guess, like eight years yeah, eight years prior to having a son, and so I knew a lot of what could go wrong, which I think probably added to my anxiety, if you will. So I knew what I should be afraid of, I guess, and I know how bad the maternal mortality rates are here in the US. But the thing that I didn't. So I was like pretty prepared for a lot of the things that I could be afraid of, but the things that came out of the woodwork were things that I didn't know to be afraid of. Right, like retained placenta, single umbilical artery, like those types of things were what kind of threw me for a loop. But that was my experience.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it is wild. It's just I wonder. Sometimes, you know, when we have these conversations it's like, does everyone actually have a story that we just have no idea about? Because it seems like every time we have these intentional conversations about postpartum and prenatal health and our experiences, everybody comes out with a story.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I think that's why they used to like have us like in villages, where the women stayed and hung out with each other, right, so we could all share these stories. So you talk to a lot of women. You've at least talked to 100 on your podcast, right, since you just hit 100 episodes, which congratulations.
Speaker 1:By the way, I said it in my head and then didn't want to interrupt you, and so like it's coming out 40 minutes late, but that's that's incredible.
Speaker 1:What is? What do you think is like the key to having a less, as you said, h-e double hockey sticks day as a parent, like based on the women you talked about, talked to? Okay, I'm probably going to give you a non-answer answer, but I think every what I've learned is that everyone has a different tolerance for chaos and routine and everyone has a different approach to this, and I think for me, I can tell you exactly what that is, what makes it a better day for me. For some of my guests, there's no such thing as routine and it's just really like go with the flow, we'll see what happens, and this is how it works for us. So I've definitely noticed that there's a wide range of what works for everyone. There are some things that are consistent, are like a schedule and an owner of things. So like no ambiguity around who's in charge of getting the kids breakfast made, no ambiguity around who is in charge of taking the kids to school and what the departure time is. So that is one consistent theme, and I think, along with that, is communication. So, however, you're communicating that to yourself or to your partner, to your kids, to the rest of the support team, if you have a nanny or an au pair or whatever that looks like. Those are some of the themes that I've noticed.
Speaker 1:That's one thing we talk a lot about outsourcing, or we've talked a fair amount about outsourcing on the podcast, and I think there are some people that outsourcing is the answer for a lot of these things, and there's some that outsourcing creates more anxiety than anything else, and so I would say there is no need to outsource everything or anything, and that's something that I think resonates with different people in different ways. So some people really want to outsource laundry. I'm one of those people. Some people find laundry to be incredibly soothing and more power to you. So those are two of the things that I would say.
Speaker 1:Almost everyone says they use Google Calendar. Like 90% of people say, they use a Google Suite to keep everything organized. I use a Google Suite to keep everything organized, so I can relate to that. Then there are some people who are like I use a paper calendar and my husband has no idea what's on it, and I'm like that works for you. So, like it really is, there is such a range of what works for everyone, and I think that's what we're, what's refreshing about the podcast or like life in general, is that everyone's different and I really enjoy digging into like what, what works for everyone, without any kind of judgment as to why, or I want to know why, but I don't want to judge like what your thing is if that makes like no yucking anyone's yum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, from the conversation. Sorry, if you guys can hear my cat, she really wants to come in.
Speaker 3:That's my son, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Oh, they're so loud, she's just screaming. But what I have noticed in having these conversations everyone says I live and die by the calendar, which kills me because I hate a calendar. I've never met a calendar that I like. It's so hard for me. I don't know if you've seen something similar where people who are a little bit more type A have a little easier time with the adjustment to parenthood.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say that necessarily, I would say, because I feel like a type B personality is just looking for something different and what's working for them is different than what's working for a type A personality and I think there's a lot of what's the word I'm looking for, like I'm making funny hand gestures because I can't figure out the word that's like glorification of type A-ification of parenthood and I don't think that there needs to be type A-ification of parenthood all the time. We all survived in the 80s, like 80s and 90s, like my parents. There's no way they had a matching calendar anywhere. Commercials.
Speaker 2:It's 10 pm. Do you know where your child is?
Speaker 1:Nowadays it's like yes, I've GPS tracked them. Thank you very much. Yeah, whatever works for whatever family, and I think right now there's a lot of glorification about like. Here's my 4am to 8am workout schedule five days a week as a working mom.
Speaker 1:Like no fucking way does that work for me. Like 4am is a time where my eyes need to be closed and I think that's and I'm. I would consider myself type A in many ways, but, like the, even I can imagine being type B and looking at that and be like what am I supposed to be doing that? So, yeah, I would say it's really whatever works for everyone involved and making sure that everyone's got what they need, because that's different too. Like for some kids it's like they need a routine. For some kids it's like they don't want to. They want to follow their own bliss and not feel pressured by. Like it's time to go. It's time to go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, sam, that's so interesting that you feel that way, because I kind of would have thought type A personalities would struggle more with parenthood because it's so chaotic.
Speaker 2:Well, I think it's. Yeah, everyone I've talked to who is type A. It's like yeah, I have a schedule and this is what we do and this is we eat on this time and we do this. And I'm like whoa, I'm still. I don't even know what I have in my fridge. I'm asking chat GPT to help me make dinner, like because all the the reason why I think it is is because type A like organized things and they're like OK, this needs to be done. So I'm going to meal prep on Sunday. Yeah, I'm like oh, we have to eat every day, but my husband would hate if I were structured, because I think he I mean, he hates a schedule. We're both like don't tell me what to do. What is it like in your household?
Speaker 3:Because you're like a B mix, right yeah, and I think my husband is too. So I think it actually works really well for the most part. But there are things like this weekend it was I think it was Saturday morning that I was like guys, what are we doing today? And we don't have anybody in our household who is just decisive and who was like this is what I want to do, this is what we're doing, and then we're going to do this. So that's the struggle when you have two type A B personalities. Ellie, is your husband pretty type A?
Speaker 1:I would say he's probably more type B. But he, we have that same thing where I'm like I need sometimes I need him to decide something like yeah, I get decision fatigue, and then it's like I think that's where I'm at, it's like I don't know. I'm like well, can you just make one decision right now I've made a lot of decisions today, that is the hardest part, for me too.
Speaker 2:We had the opposite, where my husband this weekend was like hey guys, let's go out, let's go on a bike ride, let's do this, and Leo and I were both just like no, I just want to sit here. He was reading a comic book and I was reading a book, and we're like no, and he's like no, we need to get outside and we're both like no.
Speaker 1:So yeah, yeah, I feel that yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, what I love about the concept of your podcast is, as a journalist, I've done a lot of interviews and I've interviewed a lot of parents who are either high powered or celebrity parents.
Speaker 3:And when I got into the space we were told you don't ask a mother how she gets it all done or how she balances it all, because it's offensive to ask a mother that because no one's asking a father. That it was this ethos, that that's a very sexist question and I think, post pandemic, we've come to this cultural realization that that's a very sexist question. And I think, post-pandemic, we've come to this cultural realization that there's a reason we're asking moms, that we haven't been asking dads as much. And I also think that it's so important that people really disclose their systems, their outsourcing. You really kind of get granular with the answer and you really help people understand how you're managing everything. And I love that your podcast really pulls back the curtain on a lot of this stuff and really gets people to really think about how they do it all and then also share it with other people. I think there's still so much shame around things like outsourcing too. But have you felt in your conversations like are people hesitant to talk about outsourcing or anything.
Speaker 1:Not really. People are usually pretty open to sharing about outsourcing. I've found recently I think it's also outsourcing like had a moment, I think earlier this year, where, like, everyone was talking about outsourcing and home assistance and all of that, which I have one and I'm perfectly happy telling everyone about because she, jean, is chef's kiss. I think there's there. What I noticed or what frustrated me about Instagram and I will put it this way is like I would see people doing very glamorous, luxurious looking things and I'm like, well, how are you making that happen? Because they aren't looking things. And I'm like, well, how are you making that happen? Because they aren't. That's not what's shown in. Like, well, 1080 by 1350 image these days.
Speaker 1:And so what? And I feel like some people want to show that persona of like I have all of these things, I'm doing all of these things. I am not going to tell you about all the help that happens to make this happen, because that's not as glamorous, if you will, or like that. I don't want to let you see. I find that everyone that I've talked to on my podcast and maybe it's just who I'm drawn to or who has reached out or whatever is very willing to share all of those things because they want to help others kind of figure out what's how to make, how to improve that for them. So I would say that's that's something that I've noticed that people are kind of willing to share and kind of lift everyone up in that same regard and be very clear, like I'm not making this work all by myself. I have a team of people behind me helping out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think it's refreshing. Like, yeah, I remember the first time I saw Nara Smith. I haven't seen much of her lately, but I turned to my husband and I was like where are her kids? Who's watching her kids? Because, like at the time, like I couldn't get my kids off me and or my kid I feel like he's like five, five of them and he's like I don't know, they're probably just playing on their own and I really really like nara smith.
Speaker 2:Personally, she inspired me to start cooking. I know there are there's a lot of discourse around her and there's, I agree with all that too, but it's like the glamorous trad wife, glamorous 50s. You're not seeing how hard it is to actually milk a cow and muck a stall and, yeah, which is really fucking hard, if you've done it. Mucking a stall is not easy.
Speaker 2:It's not bad too yeah I know we're almost at time here and we always like to ask two questions to wrap up. This went by really fast. I feel like we could talk for hours and hours and hours, and I want to know more too. What is something that has brought you joy that you weren't expecting in your journey of motherhood so far?
Speaker 1:I would say. I would say what's surprising to me is how and this is my experience I had to look. There's always a common ground with someone who is a mom you can always find something to talk about related to your children, whatever I would say. One thing that I found was pretty surprising that it wasn't as easy as I might've thought to find mom friends from the beginning. But also, on the flip side, I've been so surprised by how important those relationships have been for me, or I kind of expected they would be important, but they really are. Continue to surprise me with how important those are.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and how fulfilling they are. Too right, it's yeah.
Speaker 3:It's a different dimension, I think, once you can sort of bring two families together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and there's like a magic to like being able to do something with a group of like two adult friends that you and your husband get along with and your kids get along and play independently for X amount of time and then you don't have to worry about them.
Speaker 2:Amazing, it's like a magic recipe.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I know you mentioned having a home assistant. Where can someone find that type of help?
Speaker 1:So I relied on my local like Facebook. We have like a sitter group in the town that's like sitters for this town and I posted it there and I had like 15 responses within like four hours. I ended up interviewing five people, one of which turned into a great babysitter for us but wasn't the right fit for a home assistant. This person's now our home assistant. I basically just put like busy family of four looking for help X hours a week. I think we do. We use ours four hours a week doing these things. Must be comfortable with a dog, must be good at communication and offered a running rate that was like similar to what I pay a babysitter, if not less. And yeah, and found someone really easily. I would recommend for anyone who's looking.
Speaker 2:What is the rate that you pay?
Speaker 1:Can I ask? I pay 20. I offered between 20 and $30 an hour based on experience, and so it really varied by who I was talking to what I would offer them. So we pay ours a little over $25 an hour.
Speaker 2:That's what I pay. Mine too. I pay her $25 an hour, yeah. That's something people think is very expensive and then it's like $25 an hour is like that's a pizza. It's cheaper than a pizza and you can't answer our second question.
Speaker 3:Sorry, should we ask Can I go off script and ask a non-parenting question, because I know you love to read like I do? What?
Speaker 1:is the last book you've read that you really loved. So I just got back from. What is it? Seven days in Europe alone. I've also had three, two work trips in April, so I read 15 books in April. No, which is a lot for me, but I usually read between like seven and 10 books a month, so like I'm an avid reader, Like read like in a Kindle or in an actual book.
Speaker 1:I do a lot of audio books. I do and I listen at two speed and I read pretty quickly. But I read more physical books when I'm traveling, like more Kindle books than I do audio, because, like, unless I'm traveling alone, I'll listen to like audio when I'm walking through the airport, but usually I'll like have a Kindle on the plane. This month I read PS I Love you, which was about a girl, a woman, who lost her brother, and he asks her and his best friend to do a like trip together to visit all the places that he never got to go because he was a travel photographer. And there's themes of loss. There's romance very enjoyable.
Speaker 1:You know that I read a ton of romance, zara, and I'm actually starting a business with my friend doing called Pepper Books, where we're going to be sending or you can subscribe to monthly subscription boxes, kind of like Book of the Month theme, but like spice level theme. So if you like closed door romance, you can subscribe to the one or two Pepper Box because there's not going to be a ton of like crazy things going on, whereas, like, if you're into something else, like, we can give you some five pepper recommendations that you'll need to clutch your pearls for. So each month you can subscribe to whatever amount of peppers you want to receive in your mailbox. So, yeah, reading is a huge part of my life and PS I love you, I would say, was my favorite this month. Oh, I also read Sawyer, which is the new Lucky River Ranch book by Jessica Peterson, and it was a single dad and a single mom and it's Western theme. Very good Okay.
Speaker 2:Good home movie yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, they might have to tone down some of the spice.
Speaker 2:but yeah, yeah, when you launch, make sure to give us that and we can add it to the show notes and everything for people to know, cause, yeah, I mean, we try to do a book club with our friends but we just 10 moms can't get on the same page. But I did just see something where there's a book club online where they're like, yeah, we just get together with our friends and everybody reads their own book that they want to read, and then you come together and you just tell them about it.
Speaker 2:It you give a little book summary about the book you've read and I was like oh, that's cool, so you don't like everyone gets to do their own thing, but you still get to talk about it.
Speaker 1:That's a great idea, yeah our website is live now it's shotpepperbookscom, but it it's live to put in a your email. So we're collecting emails now when you if you sign up for email, you'll get a discount and, yeah, we're excited. Emails now, if you sign up for email, you'll get a discount and, yeah, we're excited. It's coming up soon. We're hoping to launch in the beginning of June, but kind of an idea that we had in November of 2024, you know, a pretty dark few days in the beginning of the month.
Speaker 1:If you will, and so we were like everyone needs some more escapism. And here we are, yeah.
Speaker 3:And I love that too, because choosing a book is the mental load too. I mean trying to go through the reviews and trying to see, like, what did I read that I liked, so I should read this. It's a lot of work, so I love that you're simplifying that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and we have plans to simplify it even more beyond the subscription boxes, but really kind of taking what you like and what themes and tropes you like and giving you different recommendations based on what you read and we both are prolific readers, and romance in particular, so don't let anyone tell you that romance is not reading, because all reading is reading.
Speaker 2:Booktok is going to love this not reading, because all reading is reading. Booktok is going to love this? I hope so. Well, thank you so much for being here. It was so nice to chat with you and hear a little bit more about all the things, and now we're going to have a lot of episodes to go listen to of your podcasts. I need to see how everyone is managing these days.
