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Do you want the truth?
Welcome to Do You Want The Truth? where we dive deep into the real raw stories from parents in the trenches of parenthood.
Season 2 is brought to you by Sam Strom and Freelance Journalist Zara Hanawalt, along with guest co-hosts such as Jaime Fisher.
Season 1 is brought to you by Paige Connell & Sam Strom. They bring you candid conversations with parents who share their experiences of parenthood and what they wish they knew before having kids. You'll hear the real stories. The stories that are typically reserved for best friends. The stories with TMI. We believe in the power of truth telling because when someone asks, do you want the truth? We always say yes. Join us as we explore the highs and lows and everything in between so you can feel less alone on your journey.
Connect with Sam: https://www.linkedin.com/samanthastrom https://www.tiktok.com/@samanthastorms
Do you want the truth?
The Truth About: Reprioritizing After Motherhood with Emmy Winners Katie Krause and Hallie Stephens from @Betweenusmoms
What happens when red carpet journalists trade celebrity interviews for motherhood? Katie Krause and Hallie Stevens, Emmy-winning Entertainment Tonight alums, pull back the curtain on their dramatic life pivot in this raw, revealing conversation.
Katie and Hallie spent years building impressive careers interviewing Hollywood's biggest stars. They were living the dream - until becoming mothers completely transformed their priorities. Now hosting their podcast "Between Us Moms," they're bringing the same journalistic instincts to conversations about motherhood that mainstream media often glosses over.
The conversation dives deep into their C-section recoveries, the challenges of back-to-back pregnancies, IVF journeys, and pregnancy losses. Both women share how they navigated these physical and emotional challenges while working in an industry that demands constant presence and perfection. Katie's candid admission that she'd rather put her kids to bed than interview almost any celebrity (except maybe Taylor Swift) captures the profound identity shift many career-driven women experience.
Perhaps most valuable is their refreshing honesty about work-life balance. "You can have it all, but not all at the same time," Hallie notes, challenging the pressure women face to excel simultaneously in every role. They explore the financial dynamics of stepping back from full-time work, the importance of choosing the right partner, and finding fulfillment in unexpected places.
Whether you're contemplating motherhood, balancing career ambitions with family life, or simply curious about the human stories behind the entertainment journalists who interview your favorite celebrities, this conversation offers wisdom, humor, and solidarity for the journey.
Website: https://www.doyouwantthetruthpod.com
Connect with Sam:
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/samanthastrom
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@samanthastorms
Connect with Zara:
Zara Hanawalt https://www.linkedin.com/in/zara-hanawalt/
TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@zarahanawalt
Instagram https://www.instagram.com/zarahanawalt/
If you watch entertainment news coverage, you're familiar with today's guests. Katie Krause and Hallie Stevens are Emmy-winning Entertainment Tonight alums who are using their journalism skills in a whole new way as the hosts of Between Us Moms, a podcast dedicated to honest conversations about motherhood, marriage and more. Katie and Hallie keep it real and not in the hyper-curated, insta-perfect mom way, From raw conversations about the identity shift of motherhood to hilarious admissions about the messiness of raising tiny humans. They go there, Katie and Hallie, welcome to Do. You Want the Truth?
Speaker 2:Why did that make me cry? We're always doing these intros ourselves. It feels so like. It makes me feel legit. Thank you for putting us in our feels this morning. Yeah, wow, we're so happy to have both of you.
Speaker 4:We're happy to be here, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 3:I'm like, yeah, tear it up. I know I'm so verklempt, well, that and the C-section.
Speaker 4:You know, before we started recording you were mentioning your boat. Who is a C-section mom here?
Speaker 1:Katie.
Speaker 4:I am. Yeah, okay, so you're just listening to the.
Speaker 3:C section. I was going to say and I want your viewers to hear this like thank you so much for shedding light on that. And I felt so seen listening to that episode and I felt like I could. I feel like it's a bond that's hard to put into words when you are a C-section mom and you meet another one who's also gone through C-sections. So I just I felt really, yeah, heard, seen, connected all the things listening to that episode. So thank you guys for shedding light on such an important topic that so many women go through.
Speaker 1:Of course Did you have both of your kids via C-section.
Speaker 3:I did yes, I had both via C-section. I did yes, I had both via C-section and they were born less than 14 months apart. So I had two C-sections within 14 months, which is wild.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, I have twins so I can kind of understand, but it's also like a completely different ballgame too.
Speaker 3:Okay, wait, how old are your twins and what was it like delivering twins via C-section?
Speaker 1:They are six. I knew that I was going to have a C-section. They were. My baby A was breach and then my baby B was traverse, so Double whammy, there was really no other way. Yeah, my OB was like if baby A somehow turns around and gets into position, you can deliver that one vaginally. And then you may have this thing called cervical entrapment, which is basically where your cervix like clamps up because your body thinks you're done birthing and she's like and that could be bad.
Speaker 1:I was like no, just go ahead with the C-section. But yeah, it was kind of all I know. But I had also been a journalist in the parenting space and been covering reproductive health before that. So I feel like I kind of there weren't too many surprises for me up until I actually had the kids and then it was like oh, I actually didn't know anything.
Speaker 3:Right, right, isn't that funny how that works. Yeah, it's good you knew, because I had no idea and I felt like my first birth was like such a blur, because it just wasn't what I expected at all and I feel like I blacked out for part of it Is that why you had a second, Because I hear that happens when you like forget things and or did you always know you wanted to?
Speaker 4:Because I could never after that experience, like forget things and or did you always know you wanted to, cause I could never.
Speaker 3:After that experience, you know what it's so funny. I knew I always wanted to and so my first was was conceived via IVF. I had had some pregnancy losses and we had created embryos my husband and I, just as kind of like a precaution and wanting to like take our power into our own hands and after our two losses, we decided to implant. And we only had one power into our own hands. After our two losses, we decided to implant. We only had one embryo at the time and that turned out to be Kaya, our now oldest. Then, when I was five months postpartum, I found out I was pregnant, naturally.
Speaker 2:You know what, katie? You skip this a lot and I feel like we should talk about it because it's worth applauding. You went back and did another round of IVF to get more, because you only got the one embryo the one time and you wanted to really make sure. And we should not forget that, because IVF is no joke, it is. I also did it, it is, and doing a whole second round of hormones and all the things. So your body went through it for like a very long time.
Speaker 3:It wasn't like, yeah, no, thank you for saying that. And yeah, I did do another round right before we implanted Kaya, actually just to ensure we had other embryos, because I wasn't sure how hard it would be to get naturally pregnant. And then, yeah, it wasn't the plan to have them this close together, but it was always the plan to have two, but God works in mysterious ways. And now it's funny. We joke like I got it over with yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4:It is I hear the when you have kids really close together and Zara probably knows this having them at the same time, but you get the. You front load your heart. So it's really hard until they get a little older and they start playing together once they're like three or four. Has that been your experience? You know?
Speaker 3:yes, and Hallie can speak to this too, because her kids are basically exactly two years apart, it's. I still feel like I'm in the thick of it. I'm still hand-washing bottle parts, I'm still changing double diapers all day long my youngest. Her digestive system is starting to catch up and she's primarily eating solids now, but she poops like four and five times a day, so I feel like I'm just changing diapers all the time.
Speaker 2:You're in the shit, literally.
Speaker 3:Literally in the shit, but it's all that I know. So I don't For me. I'm like, would it have been easier to like get through this and then start all over? I don't know, because right now it's all that I know and I'm trying to find the joys and like the positives. And yes, there's days I want to cry and there's days I text Hallie or my own husband and be like, oh my God, what is my life? But it's also so like joy filled and seeing them, you know, start to like hug each other and play together and chase each other is really magical, and so I'm. I'm for my own mental health, like focused on that.
Speaker 4:Yeah, focused on the silver lining. How old are your kids?
Speaker 3:My oldest is two. She just turned two in June. Oh, so you're like really in the thick of it. Oh yeah, my youngest is about to be one. In a week, august 8th, she turns one.
Speaker 4:Well, congratulations.
Speaker 2:Happy early day of birth to you, oh thank you, and can you believe how good she looks Like? Who looks this good with?
Speaker 4:a two and one.
Speaker 3:It doesn't even make sense. That's very kind, I mean. Look at you guys. You know what Women are amazing, like look at us, we all have kids. We're all doing this podcast together. We're all giving our best every single day and we gave birth Hallie vaginally twice and us all C-sections like we were cut open. We are all superheroes and women deserve to be celebrated more than they are.
Speaker 1:I agree, absolutely yeah.
Speaker 4:I have a question about your abs and having two C-sections in a row because I had to go and get I mean, you both work in entertainment, so you've probably heard of like body tone, m-sculpt, all of those things. I had to go do that because I was trying to work out after I had my son and my back kept hurting and he was just a heavy baby and all of this stuff and I was like what could I do to fix like the separation in the abs? And M-sculpt is what worked for me. But I can imagine having two back-to-back C-sections. How do you want your abs back together?
Speaker 3:No, and I was so worried. And did you have diastasis recti?
Speaker 4:So I never had a post baby checkup. I had my baby during COVID and so they never did a six week checkup. I had it over the phone. They had me taking my blood pressure because I had preeclampsia, so I don't know. I imagine that I did but never diagnosed.
Speaker 3:I feel like we all have some version of that right and I'm sure with twins you probably also experienced that. I don't know that I'll ever have like abs, abs again. I feel like I am doing a lot of bridging and I have found Pilates earlier this year because I read that after C-sections it's really, really helpful. I also found these on YouTube. There's this woman that does like postpartum Pilates videos and she really believes in a lot of bridging and just in helping to heal that pelvic floor and the separation of the abs. But I feel like and you know my friends that have C-sections like eight years ago, five years ago, they always say like I still have this small, like they call it, the C-section pouch. It's like a kangaroo pouch and I don't know that it will ever, ever go away and I'm trying to accept that and like love that my body went through what it did. But my abs are still sore Every time after I work out, like yesterday I did on my Peloton, which you can see in my bedroom right here.
Speaker 1:I did a hike.
Speaker 3:I'm a big believer in the. What is it called the 33, 12, 12 where, where it's like yeah. Yeah, and afterwards like cause you're hiking at a 12, you're hiking at a 12 incline, a three speed for 30 minutes and you can't hold on to the side, so you're just like it's like super viral.
Speaker 2:Everyone got me totally sold on it. I was like, well, that's what your body did doing 12, three, 30. I'm on it. It's like super TikTok, viral. Everyone got me totally sold on it. I was like, well, if that's what your body did doing 12, 330, I'm on it. It's hard, though it's hard. It's so hard it sounds hard.
Speaker 3:My abs. I woke up and they were still sore this morning. I wasn't doing any sort of like ab work or crunches, but it's like you're using your core to hike up this mountain, essentially on your treadmill. And yeah, my abs still hurt, Like for you guys. Did you ever feel like you were fully healed?
Speaker 4:I feel like now I do, because I did M-Sculpt within the first, like eight months, and it was actually still painful when I did it because I didn't realize that when you're breastfeeding that you have a lot of hormones surging through you like I got.
Speaker 4:I remember getting microneedling and I had to have her stop because I was like I'm going to die Um, but I apparently you have a lot more hormones and sensitivity while you're breastfeeding, so fun fact. And so when I did M sculpt, I have never had abs in my life and I don't think I ever will, but it was more to get my strength, because I could not ever like I said, a heavy child and so I just couldn't do the things I wanted to do. So that's the only thing that worked for me. And then I recently did it again because my back was starting to hurt again. And so I do it more for like um function then, cause it's like again, I'm never going to have, I'm never going to have abs. I know you two are down Wellie, you're not in LA anymore, but you were, so you're used to being in the entertainment industry where you all do have abs and things like that but I don't think I could have naturally. I know I couldn't have naturally gotten strength back in my core, no way.
Speaker 3:Yeah, it's so hard, it's hard, it's so hard. And similar to you that's why I started doing my classes is I wanted to feel strong again, like I'm picking up my chilt. Sometimes I'm carrying both of them.
Speaker 4:And so it's like you want to feel strong for your kids and I'm turning 40. And so I'm like, is it, oh God?
Speaker 3:it's amazing. I want to feel like I'm. You know, they say 40 is like the new 30 or whatever, and so I really want to feel that and I want to feel strong, but man, it is freaking hard.
Speaker 2:I love that people are saying that. By the way, I love that for us.
Speaker 4:Yeah, don't make me feel old. It's true, though. Yeah.
Speaker 2:I feel that I turned 40 in September and I feel really good in my own skin. I'd say the best ever.
Speaker 4:You settle in.
Speaker 2:Much better than the 20s. The 20s were rough. They're so chaotic. You're like a totally unhinged toddler human. You think you're so grown and you're not oh, the 20s were the worst Katie and I met. Did we meet in our 20s? Katie, we did Late 20s. Yeah yeah, so we've known each other 20s, 30s, now 40s. Yeah yeah, we've been work-wise, and so you met working together.
Speaker 4:Okay. And then you were saying, before we started recording, you were saying Hallie, that you commute to work every other week from Chicago to LA.
Speaker 2:So I have been at Entertainment Tonight for 13 years, I think now at this point entertainment tonight for 13 years, I think now at this point and I was the digital host for ever. In a day, and when my husband and I decided actually I should, I should tell a story when I came back from maternity leave. You know that first day back, you just dread it. It's like there's no. Even if you're excited to get back to work, you're excited to be around adults, there's just something innately in our DNA that makes that first day back, that first day away from your baby, and feel like I'm not ready. This ain't it. What am I doing? You have like a whole crisis internally about. Is it worth it, is it not? Can we afford to be without my income or not? Like that? Those things just run through your head and I was so, so emotional that day. And I got to my desk and our executive producer called me that day and gave me a promotion to broadcast. It was the greatest gift to come back to after being on digital for so long being on maternity leave. It was just like. To this day I get chills thinking about it.
Speaker 2:So when we decided to move back, I no longer do the digital job, I'm no longer the digital host, but I go back to LA every other week and I shoot a lifestyle segment in bulk that airs on the show two times a week. So I was there. I got back on the red eye yesterday morning. I fly out on a Monday afternoon. I shoot on a Tuesday morning.
Speaker 2:I take the red eye back on a Tuesday because isn't that motherhood? You just want to get back to your babies, and I do that every other week and my husband holds it down at home. So I'm still. It's. It is honestly the greatest gift, because when I'm home, I'm like fully in it, stay at home, momming, like, get to watch my kids, raise my kids. And then when I'm in LA, I get to get hair and makeup, be on a TV set, do what I love and be kid free, maybe have some dinners and drinks with friends, and it is honestly the best of both worlds and I get to have my toe in both ponds and I'm so grateful for it. But yeah, it's a gift for sure.
Speaker 1:I was going to say I love the episode you guys did about stay-at-home momming on your podcast, and Sam and I talk about this a lot because we're both kind of like non-traditionally employed, self-employed, kind of somewhere in between working mom and stay-at-home mom. But I would love to hear kind of from both of you how you decided to reprioritize things when you became moms.
Speaker 2:I want to first give you guys your flowers, because being at home, trying to juggle career and motherhood and find the fine line between being a career person, not fully put in an office, having that separation of church and state, and trying to do it all is so hard and I think you guys are both doing it beautifully, so you should feel so proud of yourselves. You are an inspiration, and Katie and I, you know, we met at work, so I can speak for both of us and say we were and we are. We continue to be hustlers. We love a challenge. We're journalists like yous are like it's, we're storytellers. We, we like. We like the hustle. We worked in a newsroom. If you've watched the morning show, or if you ever watch, what was that great show?
Speaker 3:Newsroom, oh, with Olivia Munn.
Speaker 2:Like that was our, that's our life, like we are very used to the quick, fast paced, asking hard questions, all the things and we worked our asses off to get where we got, like we really. There was not a single day where we slacked off. It was pouring 150% of ourselves into the job every single day. And we're. I'm still struggling. I'm still trying to figure out. It's like I'm having an identity crisis, if I'm being honest, because I had these babies and all of a sudden it was just not that important to me anymore. I still love it, but it's now finding the balance of. I can't give the same that I used to to that job. I just can't, because my heart is somewhere else. My heart is fully outside my body. It is with these kids and it was important to me to watch them grow up.
Speaker 2:I was at the height of my career when we decided to move back to Chicago. It was a choice we made to be near to family, to raise our kids around my parents, his parents, around their cousins. That just was so important to us. And if you had asked me pre-children if we would have left everything we built in LA to do that, I would have thought you were insane, I'd say no. I've been busting my ass for a decade plus to get here and just everything changed All of a sudden. There was no question in my mind that family was first and everything else would just I'd figure it out later. And I'm very much in that figuring it out later phase.
Speaker 2:But Katie and I are building this podcast and we love it because we own it, it's ours and we can do it on our own time, in our own way, with no one telling us how to do it, and I'm proud of that. And it's super hard, as I'm sure you guys know, trying to build something, but we're passionate about it and we're passionate about what we're talking about. And yeah, but it's so hard. I think any woman who's trying to balance career and raising children, it is just. I think I'll probably be trying to figure it out for the next 18 years. It's just hard.
Speaker 3:I'll piggyback off of Hallie really quickly in that for me. So I did what Hallie did. I was a digital host and I was also a correspondent, so I was out multiple times a week covering red carpets. Name a celebrity I've probably interviewed them or sat down with them or met them in some capacity or booked them on the show and that was my goal since I was 15 years old. Like I knew what I wanted to do. I started a news show.
Speaker 3:At my high school I studied broadcast journalism. Like this was the path, and I think, in wanting to be a mom so bad, I didn't realize what an identity shift it would cause in me. And so when I found myself at home and goo-goo-ga-ga and yeah, changing the diapers and soothing the crying babies and nursing and then making bottles and like just doing all the things all the time, I felt really alone, especially coming from such a career. That was, I was such an extrovert, like I was talking all the time and I was on all the time. I think I felt really alone. I felt really anxious and really scared and I went back and I'm not a big journaler, but I did write some journals and a lot of the questions I asked was like is this the end of my career? Like, is this it for me? But I think it also there's like another way to look at it and like, oh my God, I checked off all these boxes and I did all those things and it wasn't as fulfilling to me as I became a mom.
Speaker 3:I can't think of an assignment now, except for maybe interviewing Taylor Swift, where I would be like, yes, I want to go and do that instead of putting my kids to bed. And so I think now I feel so like lucky and blessed that this is where I'm at, and that's also why we created this podcast is you know? We know how to edit. We have so many friends like in this industry, and all the celebrity moms that we're booking are because of relationships I had at the when I was working in these shows that we could just text and be like hey, do you want to come and talk about your journey with us? That's awesome. How cool and beautiful is that? And now we're sort of just like merging our two worlds together, so it feels like such a victory. That's what I was going to say, and I know it's so hard to balance both, and so kudos really to all three of you guys on this call right now All four. It's amazing to find all well.
Speaker 4:Yeah, gotta, give yourself flowers, kudos to you guys.
Speaker 1:It is hard.
Speaker 4:Well, and it's interesting, I felt like I got a lobotomy after I had my kid because I was very career driven and I fought it for a really long time because I always had to be in meetings. I worked in tech, so my meetings I was on a global team, so I'd go from like 6 AM to 6 PM and it none. None of it was sexy stuff but and I was just fighting so hard to keep doing that. And then it was like what costs, like what? I didn't find motherhood as fulfilling as it sounds like you know you did initially. I, since I have stopped working in a traditional nine to five, I have found it a lot more fulfilling, which has been amazing. But I think when you're trying to fight and do both things, you kind of can't do anything well and everything suffers. That's so real.
Speaker 2:So you you have that experience as well. Oh my gosh. Yes, I mean, I'm still doing the thing where I, you know I work a few days a month but when I go, you know I got a text from my husband. I was in LA on Tuesday shooting and you know I get a text from my husband that Dylan's having a meltdown. We have you know.
Speaker 2:It's just I I never feel like I'm a hundred percent crushing it anywhere and if I'm crushing it in one place, the other is inevitably failing. Even with this podcast, you know I sometimes I feel like, okay, well, I've got to give everything I've got to the kids right now. Like Katie and I had all these birthdays coming up, like our kids' birthdays, and we both were kind of like MAA on the podcast and it's like it. You just, we talk about it all the time. You can have it all, but you can't have it all at the same time and it's hard to crush it in all areas. It just I think that pressure to crush it in everything at the same time is so unrealistic, and the quicker you learn that.
Speaker 2:I don't think as women we're meant to do all the things as people, not just women.
Speaker 3:I don't think we're meant, yeah, yeah, as people, not just women.
Speaker 3:I don't think we're meant, yeah, as people. It's just unrealistic to have these expectations that you have to be a CEO and a girl boss and an entrepreneur and have all these dreams and go work from like 9 to 9 or 9 to 5 or 9 to 7 or whatever it is, or 7 to 7, and then also be an excellent mother and be present and make the lunches and make the dinners and do the bath times there's not enough hours in a day and also prioritize yourself and also your mental health. And I think, with social media and scrolling on Instagram, everyone's telling us oh, you have to be this girl boss, oh you have to be this mom, oh, you have to be this type of wife. And it's like we can't be all the thing. You just cannot be all the things. You give it your best, but you have to prioritize and you have to fill your cup and also the people that you love's cups, but you can't just go, go, go, go, go, go go, because that's how burnout happens.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and especially if you're like the emotional regulator of your family, which I am I don't know if you all are where it's like I can't emotionally give what I need to if I'm still doing all this over here. That's why I can't really get on Instagram. I know we're trying to grow our platforms and stuff and I'm like I really struggle with Instagram because everything is such a highlight reel and it's really difficult. I like TikTok, where everyone is like shitting their pants. You know Me too Literally yeah.
Speaker 4:See TikTok makes me angry Really. I get like so heated up with TikTok. Maybe you need to refresh your algorithm. You need to refresh it. Time to go into your content and refresh it.
Speaker 1:I'm getting and I send Sam this stuff all the time. I get a lot of the people saying that being a stay-at-home mom is really easy. Content on TikTok I get the opposite. Yeah, I wish I was doing the opposite.
Speaker 3:Join my algorithm. I get the moms looking at their phones, tracking how far away their husband is, which I'm like that's me.
Speaker 4:It's so hard, and then you're identical.
Speaker 3:I'm like, okay, five more minutes.
Speaker 4:I can do this, what do you do? Can I ask what you do when you're tracking your husband and he gets home? Do you just like run? Because I used to do that and my husband hated it. He was like I'm tired, I just got home and I'm like fuck you. I've been with this kid all day and you've been gone. For a week You've been drinking with your buddies at a bachelor party. That's much easier than this.
Speaker 3:That's a great question. So I am really working on cause at first he would come home and I would be like a little bit resentful, cause he would be like I'm going to be home at six, I'm going to leave at five and right now the traffic is so bad that he's not getting home. Sometimes I see he leaves at like five 14 and he's like sorry, on way. Or last night it was like five 32 and and he's like on way and our youngest goes down at like 6.30. And then Kaya, our oldest, goes down around 7.30.
Speaker 3:But giving a bath to two of them at the same time and also I'm making dinner for like he and I and for them, and then cleaning up and then we play a little bit, then we go into bath time and I have a lot of anxiety over bath time with the two kids. I'm like what if one of them poops in there? What if you know my youngest when she wants out, like she wants out, and I like him to be there for bath night, even if it's the tail end. So last night he came home, emma started getting fussy in the bath and I was like literally tracking him, like okay, how much longer can I keep them entertained. I'm singing like I went the little green frog and I'm playing music and I'm just like trying to like keep them happy. I'm making silly faces, and then I'm overstimulated because I'm so tired from the day.
Speaker 3:And finally he walks in and I'm like, oh look, daddy's home, yay. And I just kind of clap and I'm like, hey, babe, can you sit with them for a minute? And then I went and like got all the bottles ready for her, for Emma, and then Kaya still gets a bottle at nighttime which we're trying to wean her off of, but that's a whole other story. And then I just kind of like took a beat, then I put Emma down and then he sat and played with Kaya for like 15 minutes, so I could literally just lay in my room on the bed for 15 minutes and have a mental break. And then I was fine, I read books with her and then she wanted mommy and daddy. And then, yeah, I'm trying to like be positive when he comes home, cause I know he's been in like a shit ton of traffic and he's had a shitty day, but there are definitely days when he comes home and I'm like don't speak to me.
Speaker 3:I was there for one of those days, yes, I was like do not speak to me.
Speaker 4:Well you're. I mean it sounds, I mean you are clearly still in postpartum from two kids back to back, so that makes sense. I stopped giving my kid a bath when it got to be too much and I was like he doesn't need a bath every night. We got to a point where we were like did we give him a bath this week and we're, like you, kind of stink. But it did take stress away from us because, yeah, we're not the most routine based folks. So when we add too much routine, like we both have meltdowns. Everyone in our family has meltdowns. I have a question about E-news and how they were. I mean you both got pregnant different times but did you have parental leave and all of those things? And you're traveling back and forth, so do you have what is that called the milk stork? Oh, okay.
Speaker 2:So, uh, we're actually it's entertainment tonight. Um, it's a little bit different. No, same same same. Uh, katie, you were not at entertainment. Where were you when, Katie, you were not at entertainment when?
Speaker 3:were you when, oh, you were done, you had decided yeah. So yeah I was. We did our first round of IVF when I was at entertainment tonight and they were like very supportive. Actually, I remember Hallie and I did it around the same time and we told our boss, bryce, and he was like very cool about like going to our appointments and all this stuff. Cool about like going to our appointments and all this stuff. And then I didn't actually get pregnant until I was at Extra and I ended up leaving when I was about 10, 11 weeks pregnant, maybe 12 weeks pregnant. I had a really hard pregnancy as well. I did get like disability and all that stuff. But for Hallie it was a little bit different because she actually like turned and stuff.
Speaker 2:I will say I always felt very, very supported. I'll rewind when we were on digital again. It was kind of like career was revving up, really had this mental breakdown about being 35, feeling like everything I've worked for is starting to come to fruition. We're on camera being pregnant and feeling like crap and just lethargic. And being pregnant and working in general is so hard. It's just so hard and I didn't want to slow down. But I also knew I wanted to be a mom. I've always wanted to be a mom. So I was really at this crossroads of are we just going to do this and roll the dice and see how I feel? And I decided to look into our coverage for IVF and found that it actually was covered by our insurance and so I started screaming to the rooftops. I told Katie I was like put your eggs on ice and at the time we can go back to that. But she was newly dating. This is actually very interesting and we probably should talk about it. Katie decided to put embryos on ice with her. Then you guys weren't engaged yet, right, we were engaged when we made our embryos. But I started like telling all the young girls at work like we have this coverage. You should use it. So to Entertainment Tonight's credit great insurance policy that allowed us to do that with barely having to spend any of our own money and by putting embryos on ice it actually freed up my mental to do everything and be able to do all the things.
Speaker 2:But when I came back, okay, so we got pregnant and I waited it was during the pandemic and Entertainment Tonight had set up a shooting suite in our guest room. We were shooting from home. I was doing live hits from home. It was the craziest of times, honestly, for everybody and mine was a certain brand of crazy, like the TV at home was nuts.
Speaker 2:But I was able to hide my pregnancy for a very long time and I had had losses, work knew that I'd had miscarriages because I had to call out of work and they were extremely warm and generous and said take whatever time you need when I had those miscarriages. But I was hesitant to tell people because I just, if you've experienced loss, that naivete that every pregnancy ends and the baby is gone and I just was a little more playing it close to the vest and not telling people. But the shot that they set up was my bust. It was like under boob to right above the head. It was a tight shot and I didn't have to tell anybody.
Speaker 2:And when I finally decided to tell work it was when we were coming back to the office. I was reaching my third trimester and very much showing and they were so happy for me and truly so supportive. And we did have maternity leave. I believe I took five months, which it never feels long enough, but compared to so many people in this country that get nothing, I was super, super grateful for it. And again when I came back that day I came back they promoted me. So I always felt really supported in my motherhood journey, which I'm grateful for because I know historically television and entertainment hasn't always been kind to women in general and women who are expecting especially. So I was really grateful and maternity leave was good to hear.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I loved mat leave. It was so good. I watched all my yeah. But I will say now that I am not a, you know, everyday employee of the show. I'm now like a SAG member who comes onto the show for appearances. I, when I was pregnant with Collins, I stopped flying to LA one month before her due date and I flew out to shoot my first segment two weeks after she was born and that was at my own doing. They weren't very much like you set the schedule, but isn't it totally just being a woman to want to do the most and not let people down? And so I really I was insane. I can't believe I did. My mom flew to LA with me that last trip because she's like I'm scared you're going to give birth on this plane, and not like she could do anything about it, but she just wanted to oversee and babysit me.
Speaker 4:I guess she could be there she could make all the phone calls Right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, for both of you, having experienced losses, what was that like when you guys were going through that? But you still had to show up and interview people about their pregnancies and, you know, talk to celebrities who were heavily pregnant or, like you know, asking people I know that there's a lot of invasion in our business, too right Of asking people when they're having a baby, even though, as humans, we know that that's not something we should be doing. How did you guys handle that?
Speaker 3:something we should be doing. How did you guys handle that? That's such a good question. That's really good For me.
Speaker 3:So after my first one, I had just started at Extra, so Extra basically poached me from entertainment tonight and I was only a few months. So I ended up getting pregnant actually on my wedding night and I remember being so excited but scared to tell anybody. And when I miscarried it was actually over the holiday break, so I wasn't. The studio was shut down and it was on hiatus and everything and everything's kind of pre-shot.
Speaker 3:But I did tell a few people and I remember it feeling a little bit like almost like gossipy to me and in that moment I was like you know what I can't believe. We ask all these women like ooh, like are you going to have another kid and do you want this? Like I hate it. Now I feel like we need to be so sensitive to people and I think you know, in this era of journalism which is changing so much I'm sure you've seen, like the cancellation of e-news and I think media is in trouble and I think we really need to be asking smarter but also like less invasive questions, like I'm watching all these press tours right now and I'm like some of these questions are just like so silly and so invasive, and I can see why celebrities hate doing junkets.
Speaker 3:And I do remember, though, I was interviewing John Stamos it was like D23. And I think it was either in between my miscarriages or after he. We had like a really good, like just rapport and he was talking to me I forget how it got brought up. Oh, he asked me if I had kids and I said we're working on it, and it was actually right before we were going to implant Kaya and I said we're working on it and he was like, yeah, us too. And he actually really opened up about how hard it was for him and Caitlin and they have their son, and I do know they've been working on baby number two, and so I don't know the details of their own journey. But I could sense this kind of like this connection with him, where we both were like, oh, we're both just in it right now, like trying to grow our families and stuff.
Speaker 3:But I think, yeah, as when you become a mom, the questions that you want to ask other moms like totally change, as opposed to like when you're just 20 years old, being like, oh, when are you guys going to have a baby? It's just so inappropriate on so many levels and there's other ways to ask that question in a way of like, if you so feel like it, like you could ask you know, how was your postpartum journey and stuff like that, like I would respect that more and then if they want to, like give you that, like we all know what they're trying to get at right, like they know what we're trying to get at. We know they're trying to get the soundbite, they know. But I think there's just like a respect level to it and I do think when you're a mom and you're interviewing parents, you have so much more ability to connect. And it's crazy to me that so many entertainment journalism shows don't have moms out there asking the questions.
Speaker 4:Yeah, Well, it's probably because moms can't do it.
Speaker 3:Like you all said, we can't do it as parents, you can't, no you can't do it all, you can't be on those red carpets, but it's so surprising to me when I look at the hosts that we still have on these shows. Why aren't we having more moms? We're so obsessed with celebrity moms. We're so obsessed right now with Lindsay Lohan and the Freakier Friday press tour and so many questions about her being a mom. And you know we love Reese Witherspoon and Jennifer Garner and Gabrielle Union, Angelina.
Speaker 4:I know not everyone likes her, but I love her. Oh sorry.
Speaker 3:Angelina Jolie oh, I love Angelina Rihanna, Like so many celebrity moms. Like let's have more moms interviewing these celebrity moms. Like I think it's so. You know, it's also why we love Kelly Ripa in the morning and Jenna Bush Hager and why we loved Hoda. Like we need more moms being represented on television.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I remember when, after my miscarriages, a lot of my job was like writing whatever the big breaking news was that day. A lot of my job was like writing whatever the big breaking news was that day. A lot of my job was to write those segments. Write very quickly, write a piece, go shoot it and uh and get it and edit and publish as fast as we could. And I remember there were several stories about stillbirths or miscarriages or loss Chrissy Teigen when she was 20 weeks along and they had to deliver her baby and I remember I'll forever be grateful because someone said behind my back do not give these stories to Hallie. And I was so grateful and I think I would encourage.
Speaker 3:I feel like you mentioned it right, Didn't you say?
Speaker 2:something you know. I can't. What I remember, I can't remember. I can't remember all the details. I have a horrible memory. I blame it on my children.
Speaker 2:But what I would suggest is I do think the more Talking about a miscarriage is so weird, right, like it's mourning someone you never met. It's so. It's so complex and nuanced and a lot of people don't feel comfortable talking about it. But I'm so grateful I did with people I worked with because they protected me from those stories and those stories gave me so much anxiety in my baby making journey, like anytime one of those would come up, I'd be terrified that it, even just to see it, even on Instagram scrolling like seeing it, made my stomach drop. And I think being really vocal about what I was going through, people were able to look out for me and I thought that was great. So if you're comfortable and you're going through it, I think letting your community know, letting people in the workplace that you feel comfortable letting know, is so great because I do think people extend grace. But to your point, yeah, I mean working in entertainment and covering those kinds of stories when you are in the thick of it and you've experienced it is so hard for sure.
Speaker 4:I remember the Chrissy Teigen that one my son was just a couple months old and I remember just like sobbing, you know when you're postpartum, and you're just like I had never seen anything like that, and her posting the photos and I remember how much judgment people were giving her and it was one of those things where I'm like, man, you don't see this and I think if people saw more of that, they, like you said Hallie, would extend more grace and come over with casseroles and you know, whatever, whatever you need, because sometimes you just need to know somebody is thinking of you. I haven't experienced a loss, but I know people who have and I know it's starting to get treated a little bit better, where you can take time off, work to grieve, and not everywhere, obviously, but it is a big loss.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's awful, I mean and it's such an invisible loss too.
Speaker 3:It is.
Speaker 1:It's just like it's not real to anyone other than you.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I remember with my second one it was really hard. It was like a week of I had a busy week of shoots. And I remember like because you know, when you miscarry, it's not just you miscarry and it's over, it's like you continue leading for days, at least in my experience. And I remember I had to go that week and interview Hilary Duff at like a kids event and like all about her kids and there was like kids everywhere and I remember just feeling sad inside but like I had to be on and you have to like put on a happy face and yeah, that was hard, so hard. And yeah, that was hard, so hard and nothing against Hillary.
Speaker 4:No idea by the way I love Hillary.
Speaker 3:Duff. She's a great interview and I love her family.
Speaker 4:I was just thinking about her home birth. I was seeing those pictures in my head as you were talking about her home birth.
Speaker 3:She's a woman warrior for sure.
Speaker 2:And that beautiful bathroom. Can we talk about her house? She was in like Arc Digest and I would well I'd give birth at home too if my house looked like that.
Speaker 1:It's gorgeous. Yeah, I love her. Yeah, if you guys had to put together like a mom group based on all the celebrities you've interviewed over your career, like who are the moms who really just get it in Hollywood, kiki.
Speaker 4:Palmer Chrissy.
Speaker 2:Teigen, who else do we love? Well, erin Lynn Rhodes. We love her. She was on our podcast, she's a host at E and we love her and she is the best. If you don't follow her on Instagram, you should. Who else would we pick?
Speaker 3:Katie, yeah, I was going to say Hilary Duff, she's top of mind, but I do think she's crushing it at motherhood and career. Kiki Palmer is a great one. I feel like Reese Witherspoon, mom of three, doing it all. Oh, sarah Drew from Grey's Anatomy we had her on and she's amazing. Who else? So one person? I, oh, I love Cardi B. She would be there for sure. I also think, like Rihanna, like girl, she also went back to back to back pregnancies, like pregnant with her third. She's amazing. And then, um, she's not a mom yet, but she's my mom.
Speaker 4:Taylor Swift, she's mother, she's mother, she's mother, yeah, she. I wonder if she will be a mom. I wonder that, like she wants to be right, I think she wants to be a mom. I wonder that she wants to be right.
Speaker 3:I think she wants to be a mom. I think she is so nurturing and I think, when the time is right, have you all interviewed her yet? Katie's bucket list. She's my bucket list. I know her team a little bit and they invited me backstage to rep tour and then they also invited us to the heiress tour. So I've met Taylor and I've, like, talked to Taylor and she is everything that you think she is, and more.
Speaker 4:She is beautiful. I saw her in Paris last year and was like in the wild no at her show.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 4:At when it was anyone see her in the wild. It was cheaper to go to Paris than it was to see her in the States. So we use points. The same mom I'm with right now, my mom friend. We went there because it was like we'll use points to go there, we'll stay at the hotel. And then it was cheaper. It was like 400 bucks versus 2,000 for a ticket.
Speaker 3:So smart how fun how epic she is, ethereal. She is so tall and so elegant and so stunning. She exudes star power and greatness. She knew who I was. I felt like she glided up to me and was shining.
Speaker 4:Obviously, that wasn't it. She was like a sparkly fairy.
Speaker 3:No, she was born to be a star and there is a reason why she is the music industry, why she is the biggest musician on the planet right now, like, she is phenomenal.
Speaker 4:That's amazing. We can cut this out. But I have been wanting to ask you about this the whole time, both of you, Blake Lively, and again, we can cut this out if you want what is?
Speaker 3:she like in person, you don't have to cut what specific?
Speaker 4:Yeah, I have a good Blake story I want to hear a Blake story no. I just want to know is she nice in person interview? What is she like with all this stuff going around, obviously with the lawsuits and all of that?
Speaker 3:You know what. You can actually feel free to post this. I was going to make a TikTok about this. I to make a TikTok about this. I really do, like Blake. One of the interactions that comes to mind is I covered Ryan Reynolds' star on the Walk of Fame and so I was there for the whole entire ceremony. I watched her. They had their babies running around and I forget which one. It was like curly blonde hair so cute, was it?
Speaker 3:James thought the star was for her like such a ham in front of the cameras. And I remember after it was either right before or right after I went to go interview Ryan about the star, blake was there and they were taking family pictures and she, you know, when we're new moms, we're like disheveled and like she had hair kind of like all over her face and I went to go fix it for her and she was so eternally grateful and then came up to me after the interview, before I left, and she was like I just wanted to say thank you again. And listen, I don't know what Blake was like when she was in the height of like Gossip girl, like we were all young and dumb and sassy in our 20s, like I know I was I'm going to own it Like I was drunk, like I was a hot mess. I was ambitious and like I think motherhood softens us and I think it changes us and I thought she was doing it all that day and I had a great experience with her.
Speaker 3:And listen, nobody's perfect 100% of the time. I don't know what happened with Justin Baldoni. I have heard alleged stories about him and, let's not forget, his female co-host quit that podcast, like I feel like that all just went out the window. So I am here, I'm on team Blake and I want to give her the benefit of the doubt for whatever she was going through let's also remember she was very postpartum.
Speaker 2:Yeah, don't catch me postpartum. I will not make a good impression. So, yeah, I extend all the grace to Blake. I do.
Speaker 3:I had a great experience with.
Speaker 4:Blake, that's great to know. Yeah, sorry, I had to ask that because I've been thinking about it the whole time. Oh my God, good question, yeah.
Speaker 3:And one more thing to add. I asked her. I was like hey, do you want to do an interview? It's your husband's big day and she's like I really want today to be all about Ryan. So everyone who's like she's an attention, blah, blah, blah, like I don't know, yeah, I also like in their marriage that they they never work at the same time.
Speaker 2:They alternate who's taking projects so that they can be present with the kids, and I super respect that. I mean, what a privilege to be able to live that way.
Speaker 1:But yeah, To do that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you know you're not like so hungry for fame and projects and being working that you take time off to be with your family. I have a lot of respect.
Speaker 4:Yeah, since I started staying home like part-time, you know, like doing my own thing, last year. I am such an advocate for having one parent home and I never realized. I always thought that it was so dumb and why would you ever give up your career? And now I'm like no one can be happy, nobody can be a full person, if you're both so stretched all the time and then your child doesn't get to have a great childhood.
Speaker 4:And I live in the Bay area and I have friends who are surviving on very, very small and single incomes and they're making it work because that is their priority. And I remember one of them I met, you know, postpartum, and I was like make sure you protect yourself. And she did do things after that, like she had no access to her money or her bank account and so she did make changes. But you can make it work on different, on different incomes, especially with figuring things out as side gigs or part-time or whatever. And I feel like I was so judgmental before people who chose motherhood over their career Same. And now I'm like you were too. Oh, totally.
Speaker 2:That's why I'm saying it's like an identity crisis to be like oh my God, I am doing the thing I never, ever thought I would do is like being-.
Speaker 4:That.
Speaker 2:I always said I wouldn't, never, ever thought I would do is like being home, that I always said I wouldn't Same. And then, but you don't know until you know. And, of course, my algorithm we were talking about algorithms. Mine loves to feed me those things, those memes that are like they can replace you at work in the snap of a finger. But like your kids, you can never, they'll never. You know you are everything to them and I'm like, oh, so in my feels about it. But it's so true and I feel that, and I never understood it until I became a mom, and yeah, priorities change and your guts shift. You're not replaceable at home.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Well, and I think also, like as journalists who have interviewed celebrities and very successful mothers I don't know all the things like we can really put things into perspective in a different way and we're not all putting so much pressure on ourselves to do absolutely everything, which is just not possible Totally.
Speaker 2:I would not agree more.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think I totally agree, but I also think we should be asking the dads, because the dads are balancing a lot too, or the partners Like they're. You know, we're all balancing a lot, we're all trying to do so much, but I think, the more you're right, we got to be honest about it and we got to be like I carve out this time or, you know, I'm really lucky, my kids nap at the same time, so I have that like two hour window every single day, which is so nice. And yeah, we have to be honest right now. You know, I do have help here, so I could come and do this podcast and go grocery shopping and and, yeah, we got to be honest. Yeah, there was a big and less judgmental.
Speaker 2:Yes, there's no shame in having a nanny If you can afford a nanny and you want to have a nanny, like I am so of the mindset that whatever you have to do to be the best mom to your kids, if that is going to work and working all day and then coming home and being a great, you know, fully present mom and you feel like you've filled your cup, like whatever that takes, you should do it and you shouldn't feel guilty about it. And I support you a hundred percent. And you're right, there was such a shift. There was, like this really negative connotation about not asking women how you juggle it all, but we ask it on our podcast all the time because I do think it's important. I mean it is, it is and we need to be super honest with each other and not feel shame about what we need to Like. I think there's. You know, sometimes you don't want to admit all the things that you are, all the places you're pulling help to make it work, but we shouldn't. We're all just doing our very, very best.
Speaker 4:My algorithm is filled with stay-at-home moms who have nannies and cleaners and all of these things. And even though they're stay-at-home moms and it's really nice to see that, because my son he's going to kindergarten but he goes to summer camp before that he went to daycare even though I was staying home, and I have felt a lot of guilt about it because it's a really expensive thing, right, but we think it's best for him socially and to learn, because I'm not a teacher, I don't know what I'm doing, I can barely read myself, and so it has been one of those things where you feel a lot of guilt and a lot of shame because it's like, well, you're stay at home, why is your kid going there? So it's really nice to see. I want to ask a really invasive question, is that okay?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's what we like most.
Speaker 4:Okay, cool, I like to talk about money because it makes. I am so fascinated by how people's relationships with money in there especially stay at home, like how that works and if you have a prenup or a post number, what those conversations were like and I know we're running out of time, but what those conversations were like as you were moving into more part-time work.
Speaker 2:Super fair. I love it. Yeah, I'll go.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I love it. My husband is so supportive and I'm so lucky and we're both. You know, we like to say we're both so lucky that we found each other and he was very supportive supportive of whatever you want to do. I think when we thought about am I going to go back to work and be on carpets every single night with a newborn, it was kind of like a no-brainer. We didn't want to have somebody here full-time raising our baby. There she is right there, hi Hi.
Speaker 3:We're lucky enough that his salary was going to cover everything and we also do have additional income. So we have two rental properties that I handle. So one of them is a long-term rental, so I find the tenants and all that kind of stuff. And then we have a short-term rental property in Big Bear which I've now taken over, and so we have it booked. Right now it's actually been booked, like this is in every weekend this month, and so I'm in charge of that as well as everything for the children, essentially. And then I do have help two days a week, which is amazing, so I can do stuff like the podcast and exercise and run errands and appointments that I need to go to or if I have to take one of them to an appointment like pediatrician swim class, dance class. There's a lot of driving, there's a lot of yes and so, yeah, we find ways to like bring in additional income when we can, and I also am not a big spender.
Speaker 2:My husband is, but I am not Like I pretty frugal and I'm pretty very fiscally.
Speaker 3:I'm a big budget girly. I'm a big like okay, now we're going to go back to school shopping because Old Navy is like 40% off everything right now, and then I'll just bulk buy. I'm pretty like Savvy, yes, and I don't like to spend like a ton, a ton of money, which I think my husband also appreciates, although he's like spend what you need, get what you want. Like I don't want you to feel that way, but I very much do. You know, I'm very responsible with money.
Speaker 4:That's great.
Speaker 3:But yeah, it's hard not to. It is really hard, I will say, not to have my paycheck. Like I enjoyed getting my paycheck every week and being like oh, cha-ching dollars, Like that was super nice and you know, maybe I'll have it one day when the kids are older, but I just don't feel good about working in that capacity while my kids are so small, like doing that. Yeah, Again, like I just don't feel good about it.
Speaker 4:Yeah, and I'm lucky. No prenup and no postnup. It sounds like.
Speaker 3:No prenup, no postnup. No, me and my hubby are together forever and ever and ever and ever Till death do us part baby.
Speaker 4:Like we're growing old together.
Speaker 3:We said till death do us part, and that's what's happening.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, nope, yeah, no. Prenup, no, postnup. Here Wasn't even a discussion. My husband and I have been together 19 years this month. Wow. We are in it for the long haul Again, till death. Do us part. And I'm still making money and I'm very, very grateful that the money I make doing this is very, very. It's good money and I'm grateful for that. My husband and I, when it comes to finances, we have always done it this way where I have my credit card, my bank account, he has his credit card, his bank account. We have a mutual card that we put all mutual expenses on. That works for us. I don't want to know what he's spending money on. I don't want him to know what my Botox costs. It's not his business.
Speaker 4:If they only knew how expensive that stuff is.
Speaker 2:If they only knew.
Speaker 3:My husband knows, does he? He's gotten Botox with me before.
Speaker 2:Andrew would not be caught dead getting Botox. So he does not know, and if he knew he would not love it. So it's just for the better of our marriage that we keep it separate, but it works for us. Yeah, and it's. You know, he's a business owner, so I'm very, very proud of him. He's done very, very well for himself and he's definitely the breadwinner. But yeah, it would be. It would be a different story, I think, if I was putting, if he was paying for everything. I'm grateful that I'm still making money, that I can hide my Botox.
Speaker 4:You can still find ways to do it. I'm not making my own money and but I am going to. I think I'm going to skip it until holidays If we decide to do pictures, cause it's it is so expensive. It costs like $800, $1,800 to get my face done and it doesn't last like it used to.
Speaker 2:I don't know about you, but they've changed the formula. My face has way too much movement. I want to be frozen and it's just not doing it, yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, I use daxify too and after about eight weeks it like starts and that's supposed to last for six months. Oh, and I know zara doesn't get Botox or anything and she's very lucky for that.
Speaker 2:Look at your face. It's so beautiful. I'm so jealous. All of you guys are beautiful.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 4:Well, I mean, my husband and I never had a conversation about me not working. I just kind of stopped and it was like I don't want to do this right now, let's figure it out. But we I'm with a friend right now and I'm trying to convince her. I'm like let your husband be stay at home Cause they both work in tech. And I'm like just let him be a stay at home. He's going through some shifts at work. And she's like no, I don't think I'd be good at that. I'm like I'm telling you, if you do part-time, your life is going to everything. You have time to go to thrift stores. I just went to the bins for my first time.
Speaker 4:There are ways you can make this work on less money and you will be happy. It's so real.
Speaker 2:Totally agree. Getting out of the rat race is I highly recommend.
Speaker 1:Yes, I'm sure you can yeah?
Speaker 2:It's really hard to step away.
Speaker 3:Also, I'm going to say something that may be a little bit controversial, but I think the person that you choose to marry is the most important decision you will ever make in your life. The person that you choose to have children with and who you marry is like the most important decision you will ever make in your life. Correct, who you marry is like the most important decision you will ever make in your life. Like that, you are raising a tiny human with that person and I think it's more important than like, yeah, literally anything else in the world. Is like who you're choosing to do life with.
Speaker 2:Life hack make it your best friend.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. I don't think that's controversial. I think that is. I mean, if it is controversial, maybe that is why there are a lot of divorces. Yeah, cause it is. And there are things. Before I got married I had no idea marriages ebbed and flowed so much and there were so many peaks and so many valleys, especially after having kids. I think, like if you don't have kids, you're probably a little bit more like this, but with kids it's like bam yeah, zara and I also don't have prenups or postnups, so we're right in the same boat with you all.
Speaker 4:Although I have friends who try to convince me to and I was like no, I think I'm okay.
Speaker 3:I think in some situations it's probably a good thing, but it's, you know, I think every situation is different and for us it was like no this is it forever and ever and ever. And when it gets hard, we will still stick together, no matter what.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. But I will say I don't think everyone deserves a stay at home partner. I think that if you are with someone who's going to hold that over your head, if you're not bringing in money. I would really think about it, because that's another thing I'm seeing on TikTok. I saw this woman talking about how, like she doesn't know if it's normal that she has to ask for money every single time she spends it Hell no, yeah, we got to change your algorithms, zara, you're in like some negative.
Speaker 4:She's in dystopia. Now I'm going to send you some shit, so it changes up your algorithms.
Speaker 2:She's in dystopian now I'm going to send you some shit so it changes up your algorithm. Some like puppy video for something.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 3:Also, I would argue that being a stay-at-home mom, like being the primary caretaker of your children, is one of the hardest jobs in the world.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we talk about this all the time and you don't get a paycheck.
Speaker 3:You are on 12, 13 hours a day and the bags under my eyes show for it, and you're literally in charge of everything. And my husband and I look at it as like he is in charge of this aspect of our life and I am in charge of this aspect and sometimes I feel like, oh my God, I'm the one planning all the birthdays, the dentist appointments, getting her into school, meeting with the teacher, figuring out swim lessons, dance lessons yeah, nanny, like you know the hours, house manager, everything, making meals, grocery shopping, making sure everything is stocked and clean their kids' laundry, putting the clothes, everything. And like he is in charge of this avenue of our life, and like it wouldn't work if one of us wasn't here. But it's a true partnership and I'm, you know it shouldn't be like a you have to ask me for money, because that's what I do, like I don't. He doesn't ask me like how, hey, when you're not here, what can I feed the kids? It's like you just do it. It's like yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I agree, zara your algorithm. Whenever you're like, I saw this, I'm like what, what is?
Speaker 3:that we got to send you some more. We got to send you some different videos. I'm literally going to send you like baby dog videos.
Speaker 2:I love that. Or you know what else I really love? This is so sick, but I love those videos where they like time laps cleaning up a really crazy yard or time lapse cleaning a really dirty rug. What does that say about me? It's like a meditation for me.
Speaker 4:I'm going to send you ASMR. It's like visual ASMR.
Speaker 2:Those are great. Those are great too. Or like somebody you live with.
Speaker 4:Go into your content settings too. You can go to content preferences and wipe it out. I used to do that once a month, and now my algorithm is pretty, pretty trained. We have taken so much of your time and we're so grateful. We like to wrap up with two questions at the end of every episode. So if you had a best friend who was looking to get pregnant, or who came to you and was pregnant, what advice would you give her? Or what do you wish? Somebody told you Either one.
Speaker 3:I would say and I wish more people told me this enjoy the pregnancy. It's so hard after losses and it's so hard when you are pregnant and you don't feel like yourself. You're just like I want to get it over with all the things. I wish I enjoyed it more because I'm never going to do it again, and I wish I wasn't so like anxious and worried and yeah, just enjoy the pregnancy. And then in postpartum, like give yourself grace, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would say the hard stuff doesn't last forever. You will sleep again, today's problem will be yesterday's memory, and so have a sense of humor as best you can, because it feels like every problem is like the things I stressed about the first month of Dylan's life, like I can't even remember, but it felt like the weight of the world. So I would say nothing lasts forever. No problem is forever.
Speaker 4:Yeah, yeah, I also love that you have. You chose androgynous names for both of your-.
Speaker 2:Dylan and Collins yeah, two girls. Dylan was, we didn't know her gender when she was born. We waited until she was born to find out. Isn't that a great surprise? Oh, it was. I would highly recommend, if you can do it. We're living in a world of such instant gratification that we just like need to have all the information as it's available. And that wait was so wonderful and truly the most joyful moment of my life was when my husband we had my husband look at the, at you know her private parts and then tell me her gender, instead of the doctor telling us. And I mean, I posted the video of my birth to Instagram because I just it truly was a moment I never want to forget. We were just like crying, laughing because it was so wonderful, but yeah, it was great. I highly recommend waiting if you can.
Speaker 4:I agree with that. We waited too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, if we had another boy, we would have named him Dylan. It's a great name.
Speaker 2:It is a great name.
Speaker 1:And then what is a part of parenthood that's brought you unexpected joy?
Speaker 2:Such a good question.
Speaker 3:That's really that's hard. I feel like everything kind of sparks joy in some way or another. I think what sparks joy is okay number one. Watching my husband with the girls sparks a lot of joy for me. And then, the first time that my so every night, I get in my daughter's my older daughter's crib with her and like we read a book or we talk about life, and then when it's time to go night-night, she says I love you, mommy, and that is the highlight of my day, every single day.
Speaker 3:Like nothing sparks joy like your child telling you with their own words and their own little cute voice like I love you. Like right now it makes me want to cry. That is the best, like it just it's the best, best, best feeling in the entire world. Or when they want to do something that, like you do, like I always have my hair up in like a messy bun the other day she brought me a clip and she said hair up, and I was like, like mommy, she was like yeah, and like she wanted it to be like me. Or like she wanted to wear a dress the other day because I had a dress on, like little things like that where you realize like oh my God, I'm influencing this child's entire being, and like life and she wants to be like me. It's so cool.
Speaker 2:I didn't know how much I would love all the firsts. Those firsts are just the first smile, the first time they come up and give you a hug unprompted, the first time they say words All of that is just. It catches you off guard. There's nothing like that. I've traveled the world, I've had exciting life. There is nothing that shakes me like that. It's so incredible.
Speaker 2:And I think just watching them you know, dylan is now three and watching these kids turn into their own person and really like starting to see who they are and watch them have empathy, and watching how they, how they translate the world is, I never could have imagined how magic that would be. It's so wonderful and, like Katie said, like I watch her go up and hug and comfort her little sister and it's like I didn't even teach you that. That's just like you're, like you know, and it's like I didn't even teach you that. That's just like you're, like you know, and the way she learning the things they love, like just watching them really become people, it's the greatest gift in the entire world. For sure. The joy is abundant.
Speaker 4:Yeah, y'all are making me jealous. I don't have a girl because they are so sweet. My son I was reading. When you're telling your story, katie, I was thinking about the other night. I was reading my son a book and I was like, did, did you just too? It stinks and he goes. No, I'm like, why did it stink? And he goes?
Speaker 1:because you're here so those are like the conversations that we have versus like I love you and I like high-fived him because I was like that was a great comeback, Like it's very different.
Speaker 4:It's hard to get him to say I love you. Sorry, Does your voice?
Speaker 3:That is epic, though that is so good.
Speaker 4:I love that you guys thank you so much for having us, and let us know.
Speaker 3:You know that you guys thank you so much for having us and let us know what we can do to help socialize. We're firm believers that we all rise together and women supporting women and moms supporting moms. So let us know what we can do and if you guys ever want to come on our podcast or do joint episodes, whatever it is we want to support in all the ways we're honestly in awe of you.
Speaker 2:We would love that you guys are doing a great job and you're talking about things that really really matter and not enough people talk about it.
Speaker 3:I mean we're in the same boat, we're like minded here, literally yeah, and we're so proud of you let us know if you guys tag us and stuff like we'll make sure and repost and reshare and yeah, we want to like, we'll make sure. And repost and reshare and yeah, we want to like, we all want to rise together.
Speaker 4:Yes, yeah, thank you for listening, and you can find Katie and Hallie will have their Instagram linked in the show notes. Thank you so much for joining.
