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The Truth About: The Attorney Who Negotiated Motherhood Like a Pro with @NotActuallyGolden

• Samantha Strom, Zara Hanawalt

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What happens when a proudly private Gen X attorney agrees to become a mom—not because she always wanted to, but because it mattered to her partner?

In this episode, we sit down with L, aka @notactuallygolden, a civil rights attorney, TikTok legal explainer, and mom of a 13-year-old, who never planned on being a parent. L walks us through her winding road to motherhood—how she negotiated parenting terms like a lawyer, survived a brutal first year with a baby who projectile vomited daily, and why having an older child feels like finally meeting a new friend.

She’s also one of the clearest, calmest legal voices on TikTok breaking down the ongoing Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively case—and let’s just say, she’s not afraid to call out misinformation, no matter how viral it is.

We also dive into:

Why she’s never had Facebook (and never will)

Postpartum anxiety and the hidden side effects of hormonal IUDs

Splitting the mental load in a two-attorney household

TikTok doxxing drama, "mommy sleuth" labels, and what it's like being hated by Reddit

Whether you’re a reluctant parent, overthinker, introvert, or just someone who wants to feel seen—this one’s for you.

⚖️ She’s not here for the fluff. Just the truth.

Support the show

Website: https://www.doyouwantthetruthpod.com

Connect with Sam:

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/samanthastrom

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@samanthastorms

Connect with Zara:

Zara Hanawalt https://www.linkedin.com/in/zara-hanawalt/

TikTok https://www.tiktok.com/@zarahanawalt

Instagram https://www.instagram.com/zarahanawalt/

SPEAKER_00:

You know her as not Ashley Golden, the rainbow-loving attorney from Law Talk who somehow makes lawsuits and pop culture feel like coffee with your smartest friend. I was so excited for this conversation. I've been following her since her very first N-CAR video about the lawsuit. And we just happened to record the same day that the news broke that Justin Baldoni's lawsuit against Blake Lively was dropped. The timing could not have been more wild. But this episode actually, we recorded as it was happening. So yeah, anyway. But this episode isn't just about the law. Elle gets personal, sharing how the same sharp, logical mind that dissects legal drama couldn't quite make sense of new motherhood. We talk about how she never wanted kids, how she and her husband negotiated their way into parenthood, a step I missed in my own journey and one I wish I'd heard about sooner. She opens up about the night her husband went away for work and she had to call him home because she just couldn't do it anymore. The panic, the exhaustion, and the realization that even the most capable people can fall apart in motherhood. It's a conversation about what happens when a lawyer who thrives on logic meets a baby who refuses to follow it. We hope you enjoy the episode. Today we have not actually golden. You may have seen her on TikTok. We might call her Elle on here, if I can't remember to call her not actually Golden. She is a full-time attorney. She's a TikTok creator, as I mentioned, and a mom of a 13-year-old. So I first found her on TikTok when she was breaking down the Baldone and lively case because she is super factual. She is unbiased no matter what anybody else online is saying. I truly believe she is the only unbiased person that I have seen covering it. I love seeing her stuff every day. And we're going to talk about a lot of things today. I'm not sure quite what, but I know she didn't initially want kids, and her and her husband are both attorneys and kind of how they figure out the mental load, what it's like being type A when she has a family life. You are type A, right, El? I Oh yes.

SPEAKER_01:

I was in everything.

SPEAKER_00:

I was watching something and I was like, I think she's probably type A. And then we're also going to talk about why she's had a TikTok, but she's never had a Facebook. So hope you enjoy the episode. And El, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. Lovely to meet you. Lovely to meet you too. And so you are a professor too, right? You're in a law professor because the way you explain things is really easy to understand.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I have had the privilege of doing classes as an adjunct professor at the college level. Um, I haven't done it at the law school level yet. I've done it at the undergrad level, which I actually like better because you get a chance to, you know, people in law school are very competitive and they're all thinking about this is the kind of law I'm going to practice and how can I get the highest grade in the class. And when you're teaching people about the law at the undergraduate level, you're coming in at sort of a lower point. Um, and I find that people are a lot more receptive to the ideas and they they tend to apply it to real world scenarios better than law school students do. So yeah, I think that's helped me kind of hone uh how to talk about complicated subjects with simple language.

SPEAKER_00:

It's kind of like how everyone on TikTok is super receptive to what you're saying. We're all like learning as because we have no basis for anything.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. And I, you know, I say this all the time, I'm sure you've heard me, that because there's so much interest in true crime, and listen, I'm I'm one of them. Um, you know, we all love true crime. I think a lot of people have gotten pretty educated on the criminal justice system and how it works, or at least some of the bigger parts of it. You can watch a criminal trial on YouTube any day that you want to. But not everybody knows much about how the civil system works unless you've gotten caught up in it. And I just think it's one of those things that, you know, people were hungry for the knowledge and I didn't realize it until I started giving it to them.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And I think too, it's nice to you, you see. I mean, you talk about this all the time, but the people who are giving information about some of this stuff. And I am guilty. You always say, like, don't listen to that, you know, like, but I am so guilty because I'm like, it hooks me and I am not an alt-right person, but I'm like listening to it because I'm like, I need to get the information from somewhere. And that is the only place it is. And I think that's probably how they hook people in the first place.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, I think it is. And I think that, you know, the whole reason that I this was even on my radar at all is because I like celebrity gossip too. I mean, I opened my computer this morning and I opened up my email. And then while I was checking my email, I opened up people.com to see what happened at the Tony's last night. I mean, I get it, right? I think what's dangerous is I think there's room for both of those things. I think there's room for gossip and celebrity news and all those kinds of things. And there's also room for understanding what's actually happening in the case. The thing that I get frustrated with, and the reason I posted the first TikTok in the first place, is when people who don't understand the basics of the law get it wrong and they get it wrong because they just don't care. Right. It I I think if you're you're taking it a little bit of a step too far to say, well, this is what this means when you don't actually know what it means. Yeah. And that's where I think the danger zone is. But I think there has to be room for both, you know?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. It is, it is fascinating. And you were one of the people, we're actually gonna have Stephanie McNeil on once things calm down, but you were one of the mommy sleuth that she was kind of referencing, correct?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, that was a little, that was a little insulting. Um, you know, I there were there were some. I mean, I, you know, it people who, and it's happening now with the Karen Reed case, which, you know, that's a criminal case, but you know, women are very smart and women can figure things out. Um, and so I don't think it's wrong to say like there are a lot of people who have an interest in this who are able to find and research things that the attorneys working on these cases just don't have the time or personnel to do. But I, you know, I was not crazy about being identified that way. I am a mom, um, but I'm not sleuthing. I'm reading court documents and telling you what they mean. So, you know, I I don't want to um insult the other people who are looking at this stuff by saying that's a terrible moniker, because I don't think it's necessarily an insult. I just didn't find it accurate necessarily for me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. So you are a mom, but you didn't always want to be a mom. And I am the same. So I am curious about that. I never thought I was gonna be a mom. So when did you finally change your mind or was it a whoopsie?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, it was intentional. Um, I just had never growing up, I'm an only child, and my parents were very like, you know, you'll fit in with us, we're not gonna fit in with you. So it was a very sort of like uh grown-up household. And so I just never really like got along with little kids. I never really enjoyed little kids all that much. I'm not sure I ever really was one. And um, so I just never had any interest in having kids. And um, when I met my now husband, um, he was like, Well, that's really important to me. And I'd really like to at least keep the conversation open. So we got married, knowing I was like, just so you know, you know, this is by no means set in stone. And I went to therapy about it for years, um, trying to figure out is this something I could do? What are my insecurities about it? And we sort of came to this decision of like, I said, okay, listen, you know, we were in our mid-30s at the time. And I just said, you know, we're doing all of this wrangling and arguing. We're not even sure if we can. We have lots and lots of friends who are going through infertility and struggling with that. And what if we go through all of this and then it turns out we can't even do it and this is all for nothing? So I said, you know what, let's open up a window of like six months. And if it happens, then it's supposed to happen. And if it doesn't, then we'll table the conversation and deal with it later. And it happened.

SPEAKER_00:

Very quickly. Within those, I mean, six months is pretty quickly.

SPEAKER_01:

Mm-hmm. And I mean, I remember we we joke about it all the time. Um, we were living, it was two houses ago. I remember this this bathroom and this house that I hated. Um, I remember sitting on the floor holding the test, and the only thing I said for about 45 minutes was, holy shit.

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

Holy shit. And that was like a good holy shit, a bad, holy shit, a scary, right? So yeah, I was I was really skeptical about it. Um, I'm still skeptical about it. But I will say, as my son gets older, um, I always knew I'd be better with an older kid than a younger one. And I am much better.

SPEAKER_00:

That's awesome to hear. What was newborn life like? Because if because it's really hard. I mean, we went to therapy about it too. And people listening know my therapist was like, Your life isn't gonna change with kids. And so it did. Um You're gonna get a whole new life, is what's gonna happen. So, how was that? Because I when you're already because I think there is a difference when people are like craving being a mom or being a parent, and like it's so much easier to deal with those hard things, but how was it dealing with those hard nights?

SPEAKER_01:

You know, it was it was definitely a watershed moment in my life because I thought that I had prepared for all of the things. And then something came out of left field. So, you know, I was very going into it, you know, was very like, okay, I want a night nanny, I want right, like, I want help, I want, you know, I want all of this, you know, and I had sort of set up this village as best that I possibly could. And, you know, I was really fortunate to have a job where I could take this kind of time off and not worry about it. But, you know, I had sort of set up, okay, here are all the things I'm gonna do, especially having help. I mean, I had somebody live in my house for six weeks. Um, she was amazing, so that I didn't have to get up at night and all that kind of stuff. But what happened is something that I couldn't have anticipated happened, which is that my son had terrible, terrible reflux to the point that when he was five weeks old, he stopped eating. And we had to hospitalize him. And it turned out he just had this thing called laryngomalacia, which is basically a floppy uh larynx. And it was causing all these other problems. So I was so worried about and prepared for like sleepless nights and you know, not connecting to the baby and not falling in love with him, and you know, I all those kinds of things. And that ended up not being the problem at all. The problem ended up being that for a year, this child projectile vomited everything he ate three times a day. He was happy, smiled after he did it. Um, God bless him, had to have uh medication multiple times a day, had a twisted neck from the reflux, had to go to physical therapy two times a week. And so I think what I learned was first of all, like no matter how much you stress about something, and like you said, as a type A, it's like, I'm gonna figure out all the things that could happen and I'm gonna plan for all of those things. And then there's always something that comes out of left field, and you're like, oh damn it, I didn't think of that. But also because that year ended up being so hard, like physically, yeah, it made the rest of it somehow easier.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh, that's so interesting. So because of the okay.

SPEAKER_01:

I was so worried, am I gonna fall in love with him? You know, are we gonna connect? Uh, you know, I don't really connect with babies and and all that kind of stuff. And the worry ended up being, is he gonna choke on his vomit in the middle of the night and die?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So it I don't know. It just I was able to take the more of the sort of like me focused uh emotional issues and set them aside and sort of say, like, well, that'll just happen when it happens. Because right now I've got to keep this kid healthy because he's not healthy.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, that must have been really scary. It's your first kid. You and like you said, you're not a baby person. So when you don't know and you're like, what is happening? And did he was he able to gain weight? Like, how is he able to get food?

SPEAKER_01:

He was, he, he's it's weird. Like, I guess he was keeping down some of it. But, you know, we had literally when we would feed him, you know, we'd lay him on our chest, we would just cover ourselves in a towel. Because as soon as as soon as he was done, he would go. Um, that's so gross. Oh, God, it was so awful. We we used to feed him on this Shaise Lounge, and then we were so excited the day that we got to throw it in the trash. I'm like, I never want to see that Shaise Lounge again. Um honestly, it probably would have taken me longer to figure it out if it had not been for the incredible nurse that I had living in my home. Oh. Because, you know, she's a baby nurse. She does this for a living. And she's like, you know, all kids have some kind of reflux and all kids, and she came into me one day and said, This is bad. You need to call the doctor and get admitted to the hospital because he's he's gonna stop eating. Oh, wow. Um, so she actually, but yeah, it was it was scary. But here's the thing. For me, it's easier to intellectualize a problem than it is to feel one. And so because it was a medical thing, and I was like, okay, now I'm gonna learn about I'm gonna go to a gas baby gastroenterologist and right, I'm gonna learn all these different terminology for all these things. Somehow that made it easier for me to navigate because there was like a diagnosis and there were names for things and there were plans. Um, and so once I got a hang of what was going on, it actually wasn't bad at all.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. And so she lived with you for six weeks. Like, thank goodness.

unknown:

Oh my God.

SPEAKER_00:

I that woman. I have heard that's life-changing to have a night nurse. And did you do formula or did you get up and pump? What was the formula?

SPEAKER_01:

I had no desire um to breastfeed. I just never did.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I never even tried. I just didn't want to do it.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, but she, yeah, she was she had come through a recommendation. I knew that was something I wanted. Um, she had come through a recommendation. Um and she ended up being absolutely wonderful. But you know what's so interesting is that so I I referred her to lots of people over many years because people knew that I had had her and I was one of my only friends. And I have friends of sort of all age groups. So as I had friends who were younger than me, they would say, Um, you know, can I have that woman's number? And most of them never ended up using her. And when I asked them why, they said, Because my husband didn't want someone in the house.

SPEAKER_00:

That's what my husband said too.

SPEAKER_01:

And I I get that, but it's a stranger. But it's also like he learned from her. He loved her. He and he knew maybe I'm just scary. He knew that I would absolutely lose my shit if I did not have any help. Like it wasn't like, oh, this will be nice, you'll do fine on your own, but it would be nice to have some help. I was sort of like, dude, I don't even know if I can do this with help. Like I have no, this is not my skill set. So maybe I just scared him enough into it.

SPEAKER_00:

But I find that really interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

It sounds like flexible enough. If he Well, and I will say, you know, back to the not wanting to have kids in the first place. This is such a lawyer thing to say. It gave me a tremendous amount of leverage to say, you know, if we're going to have a kid, because primarily that's something that you want, here's what I'm going to demand out of you. Um, that's the step I missed. Well, I I mean, you know, they'll agree to anything at the time, right?

SPEAKER_02:

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, it, you know, of course I said 50-50 and it's not 50-50, but it is as close as I think I could possibly get. And when it's not, I say, remember what we agreed to, and he will he will step up. So I have to give him credit. He is, um, you know, it's been almost 14 years. And yeah, we definitely have our moments where I'm like, dude, I'm carrying way too much of the weight here. Um, but usually he'll say, like, all right, you're right. I I need to step it up. I need to start doing, you know, some of the things that you do that I don't even realize you do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yes.

SPEAKER_01:

But yeah, it's because I was like, I absolutely demand this.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's fair. So, so how did how long did you get off? And then how did you split that time with him?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, so I got, you know, the typical 12 weeks off when he was born. Um and um I will say, I think it was eight weeks in, eight weeks in, I called my office and I was like, I need work.

SPEAKER_02:

I can't do this.

SPEAKER_01:

You know, the medical issues, once we sort of got those figured out, um the the daycare that he was going into would take him at eight weeks.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay.

SPEAKER_01:

Which I know is really young. Um, but it it was, you know, I trusted them. It was people I knew, it was, you know, family friends.

SPEAKER_00:

It's also different 13 years ago. Like there's probably fewer that do it now, because usually you have to be six months.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. And we the risks are immense. But, you know, once we hit that eight-week mark, I was like, okay, well, I want to go try this because I was just struggling with every, you know, the everyday, all day. It's hard. That's the hardest part for me. It's not the like being a parent and being attentive, it's doing it for long periods of time.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. There was a time, this is the only time this has ever happened in the entirety of my son's life, but it was during that period. My husband had to go about four hours away for a conference. And I was like, okay, great, you know, everything will be fine. Um, and the first couple days were fine. And then I got sick. I think I got like a nasty cold or something. And I called him and I said, You have to come back. I cannot do this for another day. And I've never I never did it before and I've never done it since. But I learned about myself that, like, okay, this was beyond my limits. Like three or four days alone, without work, without any care, not feeling it like I can't do it. I can't do it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. I always wonder about is postpartum, like, you know, the depression, anxiety, all that stuff, is it really the hormones, or is it just like not having somebody else there to help? You know, because that like extended no sleeping, the extended, which you didn't have, but like the extended mundane over and over again in the awake windows and that like it's it is like the worst groundhogs day.

SPEAKER_01:

Some people love it, which I think they're lying, but um, you know, my mother-in-law, God rest her soul, um, is one of those people who like genuinely loves babies. Like she wants to hold them, she wants to smell them. And, you know, there were times, even though we didn't get along, there were times that I really envied that. I'm like, I wish I, I wish I felt like that was wonderful. But but I think it's probably, and I don't want to put, you know, people in too many boxes, but I think it's it's probably pretty rare for someone to love caretaking that much and also really love a big brain job. Right. Like I I think part of the reason I'm bad at that is because I'm good at being a lawyer. And I think I can pull those parts out of me, but if my brain is not moving and right doing something, I get and I think that's why the medical stuff actually kind of helped.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it helps give you a because I was like, I gotta learn this, I gotta understand this. Problem to solve, yeah. I think that's the thing, is because you cannot solve, yeah. That I've never thought about that. You you cannot solve a newborn, like a typical newborn. It's like they need to sleep a certain time. All right, I have this picture of my son. He's like the most stubborn person on the planet. At like, I think it was 12 days old. He was just refusing to nap, just didn't nap. And he was just sitting there cross-armed, looking at me, had been up for 12 hours, you know, during the day, not one nap, just looking at me like, what are you gonna do? And I'm like, I don't fucking know what I'm gonna do. Like, what do you do? It's a newborn. What do I do? Give him whiskey. You can't, like, what are you gonna do?

SPEAKER_01:

Right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

It's and it, if you feel any insecurity about it, it just comes out even more. Like, am I supposed to know what to do? Am I supposed to have, you know, the whole like instinct thing, which I never had.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Um, I think they've you know, I'm just that. I think they've debunked the whole like have they?

SPEAKER_01:

I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I've heard I've heard we're talking to Emily Auster, so I'm gonna ask her next week when we talk to her because I think they debunked it. My husband had the instinct, but he didn't I don't know. Um, how did you speaking of big jobs? How did you do you both have big brain jobs, how did you split the mental and like physical load? Because I have this theory that you cannot have two high-powered jobs that are thriving at the same time, but you are debunking that theory currently. Um, but I'm wondering what it was like before.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I will say that at this age, it is so much easier. Okay. When my son turned somewhere between 10 and 12, everything changed. Because once he can sit in a room by himself and I don't have to worry if he's electrocuted himself, he can make his own food, right? He can tell me what's going on. That changed everything for me. I feel like I got so much of my autonomy back.

SPEAKER_00:

10. All right, cool. I thought it was about 10 is a home.

SPEAKER_01:

That's about it for me. Well, and then, you know, there's this huge leap, or there was a huge leap for me at about five or six when he first really started understanding logic so that I could reason with him because I'm sure it shocks no one that that's what I do all day, is reason with people. And that was one of the hardest parts for me, too, with a little kid. It's like logic doesn't work. No, they don't care. It's like, but that, but if this, then this. And he would just be like, yeah. So that was an easier break for me. In the beginning, I think it was more physical in the beginning, like, who's gonna get up with him? Who's gonna pick him up? Who's gonna, you know, if the school calls, uh, who's gonna go get him? I mean, you know, that first year, I swear that kid was out every single week with something.

SPEAKER_00:

Literally every week. And so who, when that was happening, who what did you guys do?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, we kind of had a rule that's like obviously if somebody is in court or in a deposition or in a mediation, like something that you can't move, that person doesn't have to go. Um, and we tried really hard to make sure that those things were not scheduled at the same time. But it really became like this was, I think it would be different if it had happened after 2020, because this was like 2011, 2012. Yeah. Cause we would say, like, oh, I'll work from home. But, you know, working from home back then was like, I'll check my emails every three hours. Yeah. Right. Um, but I think it was a pretty equal split, actually. Um, we would call each other. They the school would usually call me first because they do, you know, they always do. And um they would say, okay, it's, you know, whatever disease we've got this week. Um, and so I would usually call him and say, you know, hey, this is going on. My only the only thing we really thought about during those times was that I had my cell phone glued to me. I mean, I took that thing into the bathroom stall, right? Um, because what if the school calls? What if the school calls? What if the school calls?

SPEAKER_00:

And this is before TikTok, especially we're not doing it to take it into the stall to watch your TikToks.

SPEAKER_01:

Right, right, right. Um, well, and especially because he'd had all these medical problems. I was always so worried. And then, you know, I was worried about SIDs and all that other crazy stuff. So I'm like, okay, I'm just gonna take it with me all the time. And so the minute they called, I was on the phone, right? And my husband is one of those who will like leave his phone on his desk for a couple of silent. Uh-huh. And I would get in like, dude, yeah, we have a newborn. You have to be ready to jump. So that was the mental load thing that I really struggled with. Was like, why aren't you constantly anticipating that he might need us?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Or what he might need. Who found the daycare?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, kind of both. We had a good friend who had sent her kids there, and she actually got us to do a tour before he was born, well, before my son was born. And she's like, I've sent all three of my kids here.

SPEAKER_00:

That's great. That's great.

SPEAKER_01:

They'll take good care of you. So yeah, we were really lucky in that regard.

SPEAKER_00:

That is advice my husband always gives people, and they never listen. Go get on a wait list as soon as you're pregnant for a daycare. And nobody has listened, and they're like having to drive out to these crazy places to find. And I'm like, the one thing, if you're not going to listen to anything else, listen to the logistics side because it is bananas.

SPEAKER_01:

The when they're little, you know, people say sometimes when they're little, they have little problems, and when they're big, they have big problems. I don't think that's necessarily true. But when they're little, the problems are largely logistics.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. So it gets better for logistics as you get it gets better for someone like me.

SPEAKER_01:

I mean, I have so many, so many people are like, oh, wait till they're teenagers. Those problems get much harder. And I'm like, do they though?

SPEAKER_00:

I love the drama of it. My son brings home all the drama. And so we always know the drama happening at school and we can tell all the other parents. And I love it. I think if I love teenagers.

SPEAKER_01:

You will. I I love it when my son comes home from school and he's like, you know, this is what's happening with this kid. And this kid's always in the library playing Minecraft when he's supposed to be doing his homework and it drives us all through. You know, oh, totally. Because I pull it out of him. Um, but you know, he asks asks questions like, you know, they're teaching us this in school. Help me understand what this is like, is this right about history or something?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Um, I find that much more interesting. And I find myself much more capable of it. I think I'm much more capable of saying, I know you're really struggling with something that's going on. Let me see if I can talk you through it. Let me see if I can help you figure out, you know, a way that you might address it or just let you vent to me. I think I'm better at that than I am getting a screaming toddler to stop screaming. I just was not good at that.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, especially if you were raised as a so I was I'm not an only child. I was raised as an only child. And so it is different when you're like, I'm I'm not around kids. I my first diaper changing was changing my kids' diaper. But like that kind of stuff, you're just not used to it. And I think it's more rare, I would also say, because I have a couple only friend only child friends, mom friends too. And it is like you're just like and the other thing too is needing a lot of alone time. Do you need a lot of alone time? Oh, yes. Yes. And so there's like no alone time, especially when you have little kids. And I think that's pretty shocking. And as an only child, you're like, oh, what is this? Like, why do you want to hang out with me all the time? Like, that's so weird.

SPEAKER_01:

Why are you still here? Um, no, it's weird. I mean, there have been so many times, you know, you everyone says it on the way home from the hospital. Like, I can't believe this person lives with us now. But there have been so many times over the course of his childhood that I'll just look at my husband and be like, you know, he lives here. Like forever. Like he lives here. Yeah. It's just so strange to me. Um, but you know, as he's gotten older, and I don't know, this is probably just says something about me, but he's become much more interesting. Yeah. I don't find little kids all that interesting. They're cute as they can be. Well, like let's let's listen, uh they're like, I they do adorable things like say, I love you, mommy. Oh, mind didn't you know all that but then when they get to where they're like learning the world and it's all coming out for them and they're like figuring it out, I just find that a much more interesting person to live with. Yeah. Because they're they're seeing things for the first time. And I didn't think I would like that part, and I do.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

I do.

SPEAKER_00:

That makes sense. Well, and it's also cool when their personalities start to like shine, and it's like, okay, this is my husband, this is me, this is Nana, because my my son is very much like both of his grandmothers. And it's like, oh, that's cool.

SPEAKER_01:

They're little mirrors, yeah, is what they are. And they do something. And then I'm, I remember uh he was younger, he was like a toddler, but he was doing something. He was being really stubborn about something and like had his hand on his hip and was saying something. And my husband was there, and also uh my son's godmother, who's one of my closest friends, she lives across the country, but she was visiting at the time. And I'm like, I don't understand where he gets that from. And they both looked at me and they were like, Are you serious? Are you serious? Um so you do have to uh they do show you yourself, whether you want it or not. Um, and then you know, you start doing all that meta stuff about like, well, why am I doing this? Well, then I was raised that way. Well, what about my parents? You know, yeah. But I think that part's fun.

SPEAKER_00:

That is the most, I think, interesting part where you're like, oh, this is like a generational, like this is DNA. And I've also started believing way more in nature versus nurture since I've had a child. I always was like, no, it's nurture. And now I'm like, no, this is we have friends who've adopted it and it's very much nature.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I I have to. I you just you see so many, there are definitely like, you know, sliding doors moments of things people can choose. But when you see these sort of like innate personality traits and you're like, I know that, like the back of my hand because that is my mom, or that is, you know, um, I totally agree. I I believe much more in in nature than I used to.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. It parenting is so weird. So, okay, so you went back after eight weeks and he went into daycare.

SPEAKER_02:

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_00:

Did you have any sort of it doesn't sound like you had any like postpartum anxiety, depression, baby blues?

SPEAKER_01:

I had postpartum anxiety and I had no idea that that's what it was.

SPEAKER_00:

And it wasn't ever talked about back then.

SPEAKER_01:

It wasn't. And on top of because I, you know, I'm kind of an anxious person anyway. On top of that, unbeknownst to me, I made it infinitely worse because after he was born, I got an IUD. I had always been a bristle pill person and I got an IUD and I started having these awful panic attacks. I went to the hospital one night because I thought I was having a heart attack. My blood pressure was like 170 over 120. And it took me a year to realize that the combination of the hormone change and the fake hormones from the IUD were causing the panic attack. And I had the, I had it taken out and everything went away. So I had that issue. I just didn't know I had it when I had it. And I didn't know what to call it. I'd never heard of it before.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Well, and people will be like, oh, you might be a little anxious. And I'm like, well, what is it when I'm convinced that the knife is gonna jump from the counter and stab my child? Right. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Those those intrusive thoughts were I'm a catastrophizer anyway. So right.

SPEAKER_00:

But which is why you're probably in love. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So it's like, what's the worst possible thing that can happen? But yeah, I I I was not, I was functioning as a human. I was able to, you know, I didn't have sort of those typical depressive symptoms where I was felt hopeless and, you know, was really struggling to do day-to-day things. And I know there's all kinds of different ways that depression can manifest itself, but mine was just panic all the time. Which, you know, you can hide that in a job like mine because you know, being on top of things and having the fire hose at you all day is kind of what the job is.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. And your nervous system's already so dysregulated because you're like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And have you been in the same type of law the entire time that you have had your son?

SPEAKER_01:

Um no. Um, it's all been civil law. I've never done criminal law, never wanted to. But it has been different types of civil law. So for the first um it was like six or seven years, I worked in a very large law firm doing commercial litigation, which can be any kind of civil litigation. It's just on a large scale. And then I've after that, I did that for a while. I was at the part of sort of the big firm partnership track. Um, I had that meeting and they were like, okay, let's put the plan together. We're gonna put you up. And I I had one of those moments in life where I walked out of that room and I was like, I don't want this.

SPEAKER_02:

I don't want this.

SPEAKER_01:

I've been working for it my entire life and I don't want it. And um that was right before I got married. That was completely life-changing. I had to figure out a new way to do what I thought I wanted to do. So after that, I tried out a bunch of different things. And since then, it's mostly been in-house counsel work because I I think that's better for me in terms of the day-to-day that I like. I don't like doing the same things over and over and over again. I like it when you come in and they're like, hey, today we for the very first time have a worker's comp problem. Can you figure it out? I'm like, sure, never done this before. So I really like the um the sort of daily change and operational functions of in-house work. Um, but I've done a little bit of everything. The only thing I've never done on the civil side, well, I've never done immigration law. That's civil, even though it doesn't feel that way.

SPEAKER_00:

Um certainly doesn't.

SPEAKER_01:

No, don't get me started on that soapbox. Um, but I've never done family law because no, I can't, I don't have the emotional bandwidth for that. But I've done at least a little bit of probably everything else. For the last 10 years or so, a lot of it has been employment law. And a lot of it has been discrimination and harassment, employment law in particular, because I really like the depth of that stuff. And, you know, you watch some of my videos, so you probably know this, but a lot of people don't realize that discrimination law is essentially constitutional law. And, you know, there are just so many cool, deep issues that you can get into with that kind of stuff that, you know, that's the stuff I like to do the most.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, I never thought I'd be interested in the constitution until like the last couple of years. And I'm like, yeah, uh part of it, you know, is all this stuff going on. But, you know, like one of the things that I think about with the constitution lately is the whole Valdone case with like the California law. And I'm like, okay, from somebody who has experienced harassment and those types of things, like you don't want somebody to be able to, you know, sue you into oblivion for lack of a better word. Right. Um, you know, like it's so that has been very interesting because I'm like, I never thought I'd be interested in the constitution, but here we are.

SPEAKER_01:

And and that the conversation around that particular law is really, really interesting to me because you have, you know, all of the biggies, you know, you have the First Amendment, you have due process of, you know, people bringing lawsuits, you have equal protection, which is where discrimination law comes from. And, you know, I always find it interesting, the policy arguments about how far should you go, you know, how far should laws go to fix societal problems? What are legal solutions and and what should be different solutions? And um, you know, I'm really grateful that I have a pretty good group on my page that will have those conversations with me. But of course, there are people who just want to just want to simple it down to like, well, you're anti-woman and you know, you don't you don't think Blake Lively is uh 100% right, ergo, you're anti-woman. I'm never gonna change it.

SPEAKER_00:

I've been dealing with that in my personal life, and I like I am like struggling with it because it's like I I I do start feeling like, am I, am I like changing? Because I'm very like I'm incredibly progressive. I literally grew up in a commune. And so then when you start being like, it's like a foundational belief in myself, and I'm like, wait, I don't believe what is being said. What is wrong with me? And so and then you have friends who are like, no, there this is happening, and we've all experienced it too.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Well, and I think that it's gonna say this taking at face value solutions that are supposed to help women because they look on the surface like they help women, right? Is a kind of not paying attention to women's issues, right? Like something can look like, wow, this is really gonna help women. And in the end, it actually makes things worse. You know, I talked this morning about, you know, some of these things that are going on at the federal level about sexual harassment, sexual assault, um, and you know, sort of how all those the laws cover all of those things. And, you know, we can't separate really anymore in federal discrimination law, sexual harassment from sexual assault, right? They're all versions of sex discrimination. And the reason it's like that is because in the Obama administration, Obama and Biden did something that seemed really great at the time, which was to utilize existing laws to protect women from sexual assault on university and college campuses. And it was like, well, sexual assault is just an extreme version of sexual harassment. So rather than having to pass a new law, let's just extend the laws we've got. And that was great at the time. And it helped people at the time. But the problem is that now we can't, we can't separate them again. And right. So it it's, you know, you can't anticipate everything. But I do think that it doesn't make you if you're looking behind what something appears to be on the surface, that's always the right thing to do. You may end up in the same space, but to just say, well, this was drafted to help women, and the people who wrote it are telling me it does, ergo it does. I just don't see how that's an intellectual exercise that helps anybody, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. That is well, you know, you know what would change it? And we we're speaking of anticipating needs. I think if we had some women in leadership, I kind of feel like women, maybe moms anticipating needs.

SPEAKER_01:

Uh yeah, every time one of those uh, you know, people will come across my feed or not really, I'm at a point where I'm not really reading the news because I need to recover. But you know, it'll be somebody saying, Oh, this woman got up in whatever state house and did this. And it's like, yeah, because if you get somebody who's like a working mom, we can we can figure anything out. Like, give us a problem, we'll fix it. Um literally. Literally, yeah. Um but yeah, I mean it's like, oh my God, can we can we just get the right voices out there? But then of course that there's a whole nother political problem, which is who wants to put themselves in the middle of this?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Yeah. The yeah, it's all complicated. I watch, I get in my news from TikTok, obviously, because my brain is melting. Aaron Carnas. I'm like, um, but whenever I see the clips come through of Michelle Obama talking about how much she hated Barack for 10 years, I feel very like, okay, I I'm on the right track. Did you ever hate your husband?

SPEAKER_01:

Oh God, yeah. I I hate him now sometimes. I I I think it it's mostly resentment um when I have it. And I get resentful that he feels entitled to doing things in his free time that he enjoys. Like my husband is super into baseball. He played college baseball. His brother did, like, it's I can't get away with it.

SPEAKER_00:

Your son plays, right?

SPEAKER_01:

My son plays, like, yeah. And so when my husband is doing baseball things, he's very unapologetic, like, yeah, but this is my thing. And it's like, God, I just don't think that way. I just don't think like, you know, hey guys, I'm gonna go make a TikTok. They're all like, okay, mom's gonna go make a I'm like, this is my baseball, right? But I'm resentful of him that he just feels like, well, this is important to me, therefore it's important. And I just I get mad at him, like, you can't be the only one who has an important hobby just because you've deemed it important to you.

SPEAKER_00:

So yeah, I hate him all the time. Yeah, well, it's because it's out of the house. I think that is the thing with women's hobbies versus men's hobbies. And I think it's part of like us not giving ourselves permission because we always were anticipating stuff is gonna be needed. I can do my hobby while I'm doing laundry. I can do my hobby while I'm and I something so I recently stepped back from my career, recently I say this is like a year ago, because I was like, I can't, I cannot do all of these things. I I am very much the emotional uh regulator of our household. And I'm like, I I can't do it working with all these crazy people in tech.

SPEAKER_01:

And I was just in San Francisco and I love it there very, very much, but it's a whole different world of yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And but that has been the thing. I'm like, well, I if we're doing everything 50-50 in our household, where I'm paying and I'm doing this, but I'm also doing the emotional stuff. Like, I'm I'm not gonna do the 50-50 financial anymore. I'm just gonna step back from that and like we're gonna do something different because this is not, you know.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And again, that that has people worried I'm on a pipeline because you know, staying at home is is a different is it's different. It is.

SPEAKER_01:

But you're I mean, you're doing this. It's not like you're, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

Oh yeah. And I have a whole reselling of vintage thing on the side so that because I was like, after a week of being home, I'm like, I'm gonna start reselling vintage. We're just gonna do this. We're just I can't, I can't just like be at home. I just don't want to be working with other people.

SPEAKER_01:

Right. I mean, for what it's worth, like in a day-to-day for me, like I will do what most people would consider incredibly high-powered legal things, dealing with, you know, tens of millions of dollars and you know, big issues and high stakes and all of that. And I develop more as a person doing TikToks.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

They're just different, they're just different skills that you're building.

SPEAKER_00:

It's like it's the emotional versus the intellectual. I think, well, and there's like a well, there's a cross of road the TikTok.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. Right. And and talking about things and thinking about things and, you know, seeing what other people say and seeing how other people understand things, you know, sometimes that is better for one's professional development than just being like, you know, send this email, do this task, you know, yeah, make sure that this person does the work they're supposed to do. That can be incredibly anti-intellectual in my view.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it's the mundane. Well, also, you're getting introduced to a lot of different people in a lot of different places and like their thought process, which is always interesting. I don't know if you've noticed this, but I was telling my husband, because he's always been, I used to be on the Blake Lively side of things. And then as came out, I was like, oh, and my husband's always been like, with everything. He's like, Well, what did the guy say? Like, even with Brianna Chicken Fry when that whole thing came out, he's like, Well, what did she do? And I'm like, You're such a um, but he tends to be correct in some instances, and this is one of them I think he is. But something I have noticed on TikToks of Blake Lively supporters is it's very condescending. And they're like, if you don't think this way, you're just a fucking idiot and you're all right. And I'm curious, do you ever come across that? Because you're not, you're not at all condescending, which I really appreciate.

SPEAKER_01:

Thank you. Um, I did at first, I had a few people that were pretty nasty, and most of those people either took themselves out or I blocked them after a while. I try really hard not to block people because I'm I'm a pretty close to a free speech absolute, you know, absolutist. And I don't ever want people to say I'm not allowing conversation. Um, but there are a few that they just got so nasty that I had to let them go. Where I see that a lot is on Reddit.

SPEAKER_00:

I love Reddit.

SPEAKER_01:

There is a Reddit group, then I think there might be a couple of them now who absolutely loathe me. And they go on their Reddit. Oh my god. Oh yeah. And and I was alerted to this by other creator friends of mine who are like, just so you know. And the only reason I cared about it is because one of them was trying to dox me. Uh-huh. This is the pro-women lively group. See, this is the and that that that I know they're a small group and they're not everybody, but that shakes your faith a little bit, right? This this was a pro-woman lively group. They were like, you know, we're we fully believe live because we're we're we support women, you know, believe women, all that. And then the whole thing would be like, I don't know if not actually Golden's actually a lawyer. She's giving HR. And I'm like, did you hear the video I did about the subsequent remedial measure evidence rule? I mean, not nothing. And by the way, HR people are wonderful. But it was just they were, and then it was like, I'm not sure she even works because she wears athleisia. Like, I mean, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

They really don't know any attorneys. They really don't.

SPEAKER_01:

One of them, some of them are or claim to be.

SPEAKER_00:

Well, no, I every every attorney I know wears sweatpants on the bottom. And like, that's the whole thing. Oh, I was thinking of you the other day when Paige DeSorbo came out with her line that was like, um, zoom on like her pajamas are Zoom friendly, like zoom on top. I mean, I don't think they're Zoom friendly personally, but it was interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

I was like, oh, somebody finally took that whole thing that like yeah, that has been one of the hardest parts for me is um that people that I thought I would have some alignment and view with are absolutely committed to not hearing alternative views. And um, you know, there were a couple of moments um in the past couple months where I was like, I'm just gonna stop. I'm just gonna stop doing this because I can't, you know.

SPEAKER_00:

I learned so much.

SPEAKER_01:

Please don't. But it, you know, I mean, not to harp on these people, but it was very upsetting. They were trying to dox me, and somebody went in there and said, Well, you know, she said that she doesn't, she wants to stay private primarily because of her kid, which is the truth, right? Like, I don't want someone then going and finding my son's social media and right. That scares me. Um and in this pro-woman's group, it was like, Well, yeah, she says she has she cares about her kid, but like Justin Baldoni and Blake Lively have kids too. Like everybody has kids. And it was like, you're a pro-woman group. So I finally did something that everyone told me was the wrong thing to do, but I don't care. I did it and it turned out to be the right thing to do. Which is I just popped into that thing myself and said, Hey, this is me. Thank you. I did. I said, Hey, this is me. Um, please feel free to criticize me, my content, the things that I say. I absolutely believe in free speech, and I have no issue whatsoever with you talking shit about me all over this platform. But I have asked nicely to please stay private to keep my family safe. I would really appreciate it if you would respect that. And at least for a little while it stopped. But it it's that was just crazy to me. Like who cares? And who cares about me that much? You think discrediting me is gonna make Blake Lively win the case? I don't get it.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, somebody recently said that Reddit subgroups, like snark pages in particular, are the female version of incels. And I can see that. So it's like hopefully that helps once you're It does a little.

SPEAKER_01:

It does a little. I mean, there's there's a part of me as a lawyer and an advocate that like, I'm gonna change their minds. I'm gonna, right, because that's what I do. I'm very good at persuading people of things. I'm gonna persuade them of this, I'm gonna win this argument. And I it's been pretty difficult for me to be like, they're not going to listen to me, no matter what I say. You know, we could have if something dropped in the case tomorrow where somebody caught Blake Lively on video saying, I'm gonna accuse him of sexual harassment, even though he never sexually harassed me, they would still not back off. Right. Yeah. So I I that's been hard for me to accept, um, especially considering my job is like, I can't, I can't, I just have to let this one go.

SPEAKER_00:

You know what it reminds me of is rationalizing with a toddler. Well, it's something that you mentioned earlier. Is that like, how do you do that? Yeah. They're not listening to me. It's not listening to me. Yeah. You can't, you can't rationalize. Yeah. Uh that was part of working in tech. I was like, I cannot work with toddlers all day and then come home and manage a toddler. I just can't do it. It's not not in the cards for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Those are, I think those are the hardest times. I mean, everybody who has, you know, younger kids that, you know, I've been through it before them, they'll say, like, what are the hardest times? And I think the hardest times are like one and a half to like five or six. Because, first of all, they're constantly trying to unalive themselves unintentionally, right? So you're like, please don't eat that, please don't jump off of that, please don't touch that. And they also don't really, you can't really reason with them yet. You can't bribe them yet. Nope. But then once they get to that kindergarten age, I think it gets a little bit better. And then, like I said, around 10, for me, it got way, way, way better.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, it is interesting. It's getting easier, but I know we're coming up on time and you have a very important job. So I do like to ask a couple of questions as we wrap up. Go for it. Um, you have kind of answered these throughout, but I'm curious if you're yeah. What has been something that has brought you joy through parenthood that maybe you weren't expecting?

SPEAKER_01:

When my son, I'm gonna give you two answers. When my son was little, I found myself enjoying like doing his laundry more than I thought I would. So there were some tactile things that I was like, oh, I actually kind of like this. As he's gotten older, I I genuinely enjoy watching him become whoever he's becoming. And I know that's kind of trite, but like it's not, it's not. It's literally like living with a stranger that you are meeting, right? It's like you you bring this person home and they're in your house and you're you when they're little, like you said, like is this just DNA? Like, I don't know. But as he's becoming a person who's more aware of the world and interacting with the world, it's like I feel like I'm getting to know someone. Like I feel like I'm making a friend. Um, it's for some point. And that is really cool. I didn't think I would like that, but I do.

SPEAKER_00:

That's cool. Yeah, it's like the ultimate Craigslist.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, right. Including the things that I would have done differently. He makes me think about things differently.

SPEAKER_00:

Like what? What would you have done differently?

SPEAKER_01:

Um, you know, sometimes we'll talk about, I mean, the poor kid has two lawyers as parents. So whenever he wants to um, you know, say, I don't want to do what you guys are saying, he'll say, Can I make my argument?

unknown:

Poor kid.

SPEAKER_01:

That's awesome. We'll say yes, make your argument. Um, we we want to at least hear your argument. And sometimes he'll make really good arguments about, like, you know, um, I don't think that we should go um to that location for a trip because I think that, you know, this is gonna happen and I think that we're gonna run up against this, and I think this would be a much better idea. And you're like, you know what? I think you might be right. And I like that part. I I like like I hope to God he's smarter than me. I hope he's more knows more about the world than I do. I find that incredibly gratifying as a parent.

SPEAKER_00:

How cool is that? Like, yeah, that's yeah. And I think it's cool that you're also giving him the space to do that. So it's like, hey, I will listen to you because like our generations weren't, it's like, no, you just sit down and shut up. No.

SPEAKER_01:

But it is hard to know where the balance is too, because there are some things where it's like, we're not gonna argue about this. This decision has been made. I'm not gonna hear it. It's hard to know which ones those are. But yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. Especially because you're like, oh, this is smart. Yeah, it's it's weird when they make smart arguments. You're like, no, you still can't do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Um I pre- I will say I appreciate the argument. It's a valid argument and no.

SPEAKER_00:

Okay. Okay, that's how you hand it. Oh, all right. So I'll, yeah. I'll I'll note that one away for because that's been coming up for me lately. I'm like, I get it. I get I get why you want that and why it's a good idea, but we're not gonna do it.

SPEAKER_01:

Well, honestly, for what it's worth, if this is, I don't know if this is psychology or what, but I have learned this as a lawyer. When people sue, I would say 85% of the time when people bring legal action, they don't really care about recovering anything. They just want to be heard. People just want to be heard. And so I think that has helped me in parenting, like, just let him let him have his say. Okay, it costs you nothing. Um, but that happens all the way at that level. People just want someone to hear their story sometimes.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and an apology. A lot of times, an apology like a sometimes. All right, and the other question we like to ask is what advice, if you had a friend coming to you right now who said, I'm pregnant, what advice would you give them?

SPEAKER_01:

That's a great question. Um make sure that you and your partner are on the same page about values before anything else.

SPEAKER_00:

How did you do that?

SPEAKER_01:

Well, I don't know that we always were, but it has it has it has come out over time. I've had to sort of, I thought we were always on the same page, but there have been multiple times where I've had to say, like, for example, you know, might as well just say, no, you can't, you can't do that. You just can't. I said, no, you just can't do that. And I'm like, do you want your child to see you as a person who says no without explanation? How did it feel when you were? I'm kind of the psychologist of the house. How did it feel when you were a kid when someone did that to you? And he'll be like, you know what, you're right. I actually, my value as a parent is actually that I want him to feel like he can come to me. Like, well, then you need to change the way that you're addressing that situation. That's good. We're aligned on values like life values, political values, but um, just in terms of like, is uh kindness more important than personal boundaries? You know, that kind of stuff, it comes up, right? Like some people feel very strongly that children should be kind to everybody. And you know, my husband was like, I was always taught that you should be kind to everyone. And I was like, so was I. And I should have been taught that some people it's okay to say no to, but no one ever told me.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

So to me, that's more of like the value stuff.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, and you don't have to give Auntie a kiss if you don't want to. Like, right.

SPEAKER_01:

Or, you know, maybe, maybe these kinds of like, you know, oh, you should go to this event because all of your friends are going. We've had a lot of those. And my husband will, I'm so I know he's the bad guy in all my stories. Um, you should go, all your friends are going. And I'm like, I'll take him into the bathroom and be like, I know you don't realize what you're doing, but you're like setting him up in a standard we don't want him to have, like the which is you should do it because your friends are doing it. And I know it seems like it's not a big deal because it's just a dance, but like, let's be thoughtful about it. So that's what I would recommend to people. Start talking about like what are we gonna do if this happens? Or what are our thoughts about, you know, everyone talks about like sex stuff, but like it starts way earlier than that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00:

And then you also gave two really good pieces of advice earlier about uh sleep, a sleep person. And so I'm gonna add that to this the sleep. Okay, and then you had another really good one about the the logistics. Like, I don't know, it you didn't say it explicitly, but like having your own personal boundaries, like you you called it leverage, but being like, no.

SPEAKER_01:

I'm not doing that, right?

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, yeah. That's really good advice.

SPEAKER_01:

The thing that I say the most to people when they are becoming parents or or whatever is, you know, I never give advice unless I'm asked for it, which is also advice, right? Don't give unsolicited parenting advice to people unless they ask, you know, don't give unsolicited parenting advice. But if somebody asks, one of the things I say to people is you can love them without loving it. And that is something that I had to teach myself that helped me turn a corner of like, I love him, but I do not always love the act of parenting. And they're not the same. Yep. And it's okay if there are times, like, of course, I love, you know, I hate when people are like, I love my kid, but it's like, of course you do. That's a given, right? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00:

I don't know what they do.

SPEAKER_01:

You might be right. You might be right.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah, but the act, yeah, the act parenting sucks a lot of the time, but your child does not like the brain development. I yeah, I I feel that very much. I think that's great advice. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

But just because you you love a person doesn't mean that everything you do in service of that person is the most wonderful thing and you enjoy every minute of it. It's just not how it works.

SPEAKER_00:

Yep. I agree. Well, thank you so much. I know um as as we're recording this right now for anyone listening, the there are some updates in the Baltonian lively case.

SPEAKER_01:

Some updates. A huge update just came out.

SPEAKER_00:

Yeah. So we're we're gonna let uh Elle get back to her real job and the the TikTok, because I'm sure you need to you're getting probably getting blown up, right now.

SPEAKER_01:

So you need to go I haven't even looked, but I'm sure I'm gonna have to go like take the rest of the afternoon off of my real job to do this. But thanks for letting me know. I would have logged into TikTok and freaked out. So I can always get time to have a minute.

SPEAKER_00:

All right. And thank you for listening.

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Paige Connell

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Sam Strom

Host
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Zara Hanawalt

Co-host

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